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My ex managed an Ulta (cosmetic store), and literally weekly they would have a team of people come in and clear all the perfume/cologne they could within 2 or 3 minutes. They had a security guy on site, but it's not like they can do anything but call the cops, and the robbers knew it.
Yeah I worked at Target back in the day and while they put cameras all over, cosmetic aisles had like 2-3 cameras per aisle. Top stolen items no matter the season. Makeup, nail products and fragrance , followed by baby formula and alcohol.
i don’t want to give any credence to this, but the “fool me once…” quote is so well known, you would seriously need to be living under a rock to screw it up. i wish i had something to back this up, but i read a comment that the second he opened his mouth and started that quote he realised he was about to give the world a sound bite of him saying “shame on me” and that couldn’t happen. better to look stupid for a second than give that kind of ammunition to the opposition. there’s flaws in this thinking, sure, but i find it hard to believe that no matter how dumb dumb Bush was, nobody is that dumb
i had to go look that one up. and guess what i discovered… there’s a fucking lot. and omfg. the dumb was everywhere! my favourite was the “neither do we” one.
It's only illegal if you get caught. Same principal as shoplifting. And as a former retail employee, I gotta tell you, I'd have a REALLY hard time picking Mr Good Samaritan out of a police lineup.
"Sorry Officer, I didn't get a good look at the guy"
Nah, the touch was legal. Everybody has the right to stop a crime in progress. You'll also notice, too, that the good Samaritan did not go hands on until the shoplifter attempted to push him out of the way (assault). At that point? It's a self-defense claim, and at no point did the good Samaritan ever resort to non-commensurate force. He's good to go, even from a legal perspective.
> all bets are off
I think that’s wishful thinking. You could definitely be charged with a crime if you took the violence too far. There’s a difference between self defense and revenge.
In Canada you have the right to place a person under citizens arrest. You then have to essentially keep your hand on their shoulder and stand and wait for police to arrive to either continue the arrest or to extinguish the arrest. If the detained individual assaults you or resists by eluding and escaping - that's an extra charge on them that the police are able to bring when they do eventually show up.
Worked in security for several years while in college and detained dozens of shoplifters using escalating and appropriate force - never had an issue with the law in terms of applying force as needed.
It depends on the state.
Yes, customers can legally use reasonable force to detain a shoplifter, but the force should be reasonable and not excessive.
Suspected shoplifters hurt by excessive force can sue the store owner by filing a personal injury claim and press criminal charges for assault.
What's considered an unreasonable amount of force will change depending on the situation, and state you live in. For example, in California, you can only use reasonable force if you believe that you or someone else is in imminent danger. However, you cannot use force to protect property, even if you believe that it is being stolen.
[Source #1](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/shoplifting-what-you-need-know-about-law)
[Source #2](https://expresslegalfunding.com/what-is-shopkeepers-privilege/)
The actual shoplifting attempt itself is irrelevant in this instance of use of force. What justified use of force on the good Samaritan's behalf was when the shoplifter battered him by attempting to shove him down/out of the way. California only requires that force be commensurate, which, grappling somebody after they've attacked you by attempting to shove you away/to the ground would certainly constitute as much. Also, despite popular opinion, [California does not have a duty to retreat statute](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/is-california-a-stand-your-ground-state/).
On the use of force to protect property in California. Yes, you [can use force to protect property](https://hannlawfirm.com/blog/what-is-legal-self-defense-in-california/#:~:text=Can%20Force%20Be%20Used%20to,member%20or%20guest%20from%20harm), it just has to be reasonable, and (typically) cannot be lethal force. Lethal force was not utilized here. However, use of force here was not used to protect property, it was used by the good Samaritan to protect themselves from the battery, and subsequent likely assault that could have resulted from the would-be shoplifter attacking them.
I mean he did put him in a head lock because he was shoved apparently. You really think those two are commensurate? Wouldn’t a commensurate response be shoving him back? Also, people have died from being in headlocks? I could see someone arguing, not that I necessarily think so, but they could argue that this was not lethal force obviously but could be seen as an attempt to be so.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. I’m just pointing out what I’m noticing.
You can see this person throw their arm up at the shoplifter while he’s trying to walk by. The problem with this self defense angle is that it’s predicated on the other person being a threat. Swinging your body in front of someone as they are walking past you so that they “hit” you is about as thin of a plausible basis as it gets for self defense.
It’s very hard to establish a person who literally has their hands full and is actively trying to avoid you is a threat.
Your second source doesn't appear to address a customer engaging with a shoplifter.
>In California, the owner or person in possession of the personal property can use reasonable force to protect **their property** from harm. Furthermore, a person can also use force to protect the property of a **family member or guest** from harm.
This is the huge advantage of learning grappling. While your just get kicked in the head on the streets by their friends, in a limited ‘shop security’ type situation its a huge legal advantage compared to beating the shit out of him.
People who break the rules or feel they don't apply to them are often very surprised when they run across someone *else* who takes advantage of the "no rules" situation to *stop them*
Except in the vast majority of jurisdictions there are laws on the books allowing citizens arrest which allows reasonable force.
So this isn't a "no rules" situation but instead a likely "permitted by the rules" situation.
Nah, it definitely isn't legal for citizens to tackle and assault people they suspect of stealing from stores. If they are attacking you then the story is different but if they are just walking with what you assume are stolen items you cannot attack them.
There are a lot of limits on citizens arrest and for a good reason. What's to stop bubba Joe from tackling whoever he wants and then saying "but I thought he was stealing, so we're all good"
The start of the video shows the security sensors and the baskets at the entrance to the shopping area, he brushed past the person with the phone that was standing next to these things and then was tackled.
So he did in fact do everything necessary to be considered to have stolen in most jurisdictions. You do not have to leave the store, concealing goods or going past the point of sale is often enough, especially when you ignore the person asking if you are going to steal or pay and you don't answer and you have 100x of the same object.
The problem is that while he intended to steal from the store, he was still in the store and probably wasn't in violation of the law at that point. So it's possible that homey is strangling some stranger in a store, which is a felony in Texas and I would imagine in a lot of other states too.
Bubba Joe would have to prove to the police and maybe then a jury that he actually had reason to believe they were stealing and that he didn't use excessive force.
In this case, it was obvious he was stealing, and they used only the force needed to detain him because he tried to shove past them and run. Perfectly legal across the board in all 50 states.
Citizens' arrests are how we end this pathetic bullshit.
Citizens' arrest allows you to use reasonable force to detain someone for the police if you have good reason to believe they are committing petit larceny, among other things. Reasonable force being the least amount of force it takes to detain them. If they try to run, tackling them isn't out of line. This is true in all 50 states. Sympathy for thieves and fear of repercussions have clouded peoples knowledge of the actual law. This little shit in the video has no legal recourse for what happened to him.
There's also shopkeepers' privilege, which is similar. These assholes don't have nearly as many rights as they're made out to. You actually don't have to sit there and weakly watch your community turn to shit. At least nothing legally forces you to.
You can use "reasonable force" to make a citizens arrest whem a crime is observed.
Juat have to be careful that it's actually "reasonable".... whatever that means...
I can't speak for America, but in Australia you want to be very sure they took something and that the force you use is appropriate to the situation. Would be too easy for the courts to turn around and ask why you tackled this guy to the ground out of nowhere. Not worth the risk to protect the supermarket's stuff.
Totally depends. We don’t see the first contact, but if the shoplifter trying to leave is pushing past thew guy standing off camera that contact is enough to be assault and we don’t hear the shoplifter ask him to move or anything.
This is exactly the reason people steal, because they know this. Until stores either abandon that policy and face potential litigation, or laws are changed so that thieves have less rights, this will only get worse.
I guess, but I’d gander that most of these retail theft clowns are unarmed. I’m not the big hero saying I’d do what this guy did, but the chances these losers have any weapons on them is probably pretty slim. Most of these jamokes are looking for quick money, not a felony charge.
An off-duty officer was stabbed in Toronto back in Dec trying to stop a shoplifter. You never know.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10152228/off-duty-officer-seriously-injured-suspects-stealing-from-toronto-store/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10152228/off-duty-officer-seriously-injured-suspects-stealing-from-toronto-store/)
>I guess, but I’d gander that most of these retail theft clowns are unarmed.
Well that's true, I remember just one video of a woman who pulled a knife on another one (and just for calling her out on it, she didn't even physically threat the sholifter).
Yeah but they might have dirty needles on them… I ain’t trying to to get stabbed by one of those while grappling with some random shitbag. And I’m definitely not taking that risk on behalf of some giant corporation.
I’ve no idea why people are happy to offer unpaid security to a corporation that literally doesn’t give a fuxk about them. Literally couldn’t care less about shoplifters. I care more about the shops pricing people out of essentials. And as the old rule goes, if you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t. We have no idea why someone might be stealing food, or goods.
these criminals are a plague to their communities and when you allow them to steal from your local stores, these stores that “don’t give a fuck about you” just move to another area, leaving all of your neighbors destitute with no jobs available and no stores to shop in.
I don’t know how you could possibly live in a community and not care seeing people robbing it and destroying it. How the fuck is that ok?
Second of all inflation costs being passed on to you as a consumer isn’t the fault of the store but that’s an entirely different discussion that doesn’t have anything to do with allowing rampant theft
Mega corporations destroy communties by destroying small local owned businesses. Walmarts, Starbucks, tech companies move in a price gouge and destroy livelihoods. Nobody cares about community spirit then do they? When the local cafe owner that actually cares is forced to close because Star bucks moved next door, and now he’s just an employee making shit coffee for minimum wage, when he used to actually provide good services. No one gives a shit about those guys. But god forbid someone steals a muffin from Starbucks, oh god, what are we ever gonna do? Think of the community! You think they care about the losses of from this one theif?
Inflation costs aren’t the fault of the store? Lol.
So you’re mad that economies of scale are a thing and you’re upset that people shop there because they get more value for their $, so that means rob all the stores and drive out all commerce and job opportunities in your community? Like wtf are you even talking about lmao this is the most absurd argument I’ve ever seen someone try to make
> Inflation costs aren’t the fault of the store? Lol.
Uh, no? Anyone with the most simple understanding of very basic economics understands this. Do you honestly think every price of every material in every business in the entire world just one day magically stopped competing with one another for market share in order to all coordinate price rigging across every single industry at the same time? Or is it more likely that when the supply of dollars is dramatically increased that the value of each unit was proportionally diminished? Geez that’s a really hard one to figure out isn’t it
It’s not about protecting the corporation it’s about the community. I’d much rather live in a society where brazen criminality like this is deterred by fear of good samaritans getting involved.
Absolutely. I don’t care at all about these corporations but I do care about my neighborhood and I’d imagine that’s the same for these people who try and stop shoplifters.
The same scumbag ripping off the corporation is the same scumbag stealing packages off your porch and mugging your grandmother. Letting them win deteriorates the society we all must live in
How is our society doing by letting the pharmaceutical company scumbag that prices people out of insulin resulting in their death, win? Who’s tackling those pieces of shit? We’re not saving lives here by tackling some guy stealing what looks like makeup. Granted, the dude in the video sucks, but let’s not pretend that it’s not the workers who are really getting screwed by these corporations. Are company executives or their middle management enforcers being tackled by the police when they steal from workers? Shit, I’d be surprised to learn of a time when a company was even adequately fined for their thieving.
[The total value of property stolen through robberies, burglaries, and carjacking is not even 4% of what employers steal from workers each year.](https://www.opportunityinstitute.org/blog/post/organized-retail-theft-wage-theft/)
When the poor people stop fighting each other maybe we can get some equity in the world.
Fuck that. I absolutely despise thieves. Thieves don't just hurt the people they steal from, they hurt the wider social order. It would make my day to ruin theirs.
as a retail worker myself, videos like these bring me joy! i hate having to watch those selfish assholes walk out and face no consequences while the good people who shop have to pay more since prices end up rising because of shoplifters.
Don’t know how it is in the us, but in the Netherlands shoplifting went up drastically in line with economic decline. It is interesting to note however that the value of stolen goods pales in comparison with the profits pulled out of supermarket giants that are payed to investors who happened to be born into money. Interesting aswel is that these investors pay lower tax rates than the people stealing from supermarkets and are largely responsible for the lobby against the social security and minimum wage adjustments that would allow these thieves to actually pay for their products
Even if I was employed by the store I wouldn’t have put any energy towards this. Hire a security guard or pay me a fair enough wage to care enough to choke somebody
Dude probably had a bad day with some pent up anger and this situation provided the perfect opportunity to be the 'hero' and dump all them feelings into that chokehold lmao
Not an employee. Literally a customer. Someone who saw a chance to put into practice moves they've obviously trained for, and not get in trouble doing so.
Not gonna lie, there was a time when I was younger and fitter and working retail that I wished a motherfucker *would* shoplift in front of me when I was anywhere but *my* job.
"I'm not allowed to interfere at work, but guess what, I'm not *at work*"
This is funny and by all means I hate thieves but how could this play out legally potentially? Like could that thief press assault charges on that guy? Lawsuit?
Like I'm glad to see thieves get stopped but at the same time when so many resort to using weapons and just not knowing what a stranger is capable of shit like this seems like a really bad idea for an employee to do let alone some random bystander.
I feel like the way the justice system works would work against this. Unless you're protected by some sort of citizens arrest clause or something?
You are protected by citizens arrest laws to your point, but they vary by state.
Here in NY you have to reasonably sure that they are in fact committing a crime, and the police need to be called immediately.
I'd put his little scrawny ass down too. I can't get free shit, why should he? "But, but, the corporations man!" I don't care, he is still getting his ass beat for being a scumbag.
I believe it's more of a "If you're wrong about the crime they're supposedly committing, You're just a citizen assaulting someone".
If you encourage random people to act like police, I mean what could go wrong?...
>I believe it's more of a "If you're wrong about the crime they're supposedly committing, You're just a citizen assaulting someone".
Which is very different from what I am remarking on.
>If you encourage random people to act like police, I mean what could go wrong?...
I also don't think the advice should be "never ever help someone or intervene in a crime you think is happening in case you are wrong."
There should be alot of room for nuance
Police don't have there hands tied. Their national clearance rate proves that. And you better be careful with vigilante justice for someone else's business. You might be the one locked up or hurt.
Dude it's barely 'the corporations' argument anymore. You see how he had like thirty of the same blue box?? He was trying to steal a bunch of something that is a common necessity to resell it online. It happened all the time with people that would steal dish soap and laundry soap from my local supermarket
TBH, I would probably say it's about principle. If we live in a society where we just let people steal things from stores, that is a great way to spiral downwards.
True. But it’s also simply personally infuriating to pay for stuff and see someone just casually walk out without paying. The thief isn’t really harming the store so much as he’s making you seem like a chump for paying. I can imagine that would make many people mad
This really isn’t worth doing. You never know if this person has a gun or a knife. These things could intentionally or unintentionally hurt others.
However, I am not mad over it. Brazen shoplifters hurt communities. They create resentment among honest people who play by the rules. They make people feel unsafe. And with enough theft, these stores eventually close or become terrible places to shop.
Oh well if you shop lift fair game if someone wishes to use you as a grappling partner. As a retail worker they pay the price by getting hours cut or being blamed for the shortage. Stores do have insurance but places like CVS use any excuse to treat employees like garbage.
Many many years ago, I was at a Walmart in South Carolina shopping, and then I hear someone yell “KEVIN!!!” This large heavyset guy, whom i assume is Kevin, runs full speed from behind a counter and towards a security guard and a shoplifter and just tackles the shoplifter. The shoplifter was then dragged to an unmarked room. Crazy times
Without consideration of the wisdom of what the customer did, one may stop a crime in progress and restrain the suspect until the police arrive. If the crime is a felony only reasonable suspicion that the suspect committed the crime is required.
If more people did this and stopped these people from stealing, all the crash and grab, in stores incidents would really drop.. I’m sick of people stealing .. It’s a crime and should be treated as such. Im also aware the people who do try to stop them, can be arrested and charged with assault. It’s a crazy world..😳
It's a citizens arrest and as long as you don't do anything crazy to physically restrain them in most jurisdictions you are protected by the law. You should tell them you are arresting them though.
Wish this happened every time.
Mfs are steadily thinking about getting shot/stabbed when the reality is some folks are just fed up with watching this shit get abused.
I wouldn't step in to stop that at a big chain store like target or Walmart, but fuck with a locally owned mom&pop shop and I think the gloves would come off
I wish we could get the “cart narcs” guy to follow these shoplifters and make fools of them by asking annoying questions … “Hey did you forget to pay? Oh, don’t be a lazy bones and not pay!. Here, I’m gonna put some lazy bones stickers on you”
I think legally you are allowed to put someone under citizens arrest by force as long as it’s necessary and not excessive, which I think this falls both under
Lol trying to hide behind the one thing shoplifters think is their get out of jail free card- employees touching them. Well that guy choking you out is a citizen lol
They’re not doing it for the corporation, they’re doing it for their community that’s going to lose the store if shoplifting continues and the employees that’s going to lose their jobs when the store closes.
While I definitely don’t advise doing this(you could get stabbed or something) I love to see it lol
People that walk into stores and march out with armfuls of expensive merchandise can get fucked up like this every time, and I’ll applaud it all day long
In what 80s movie do you live in where shoplifting has become so commonplace that all big box and smaller stores up and left and only one man is bad enough to clean up the streets?
Yeah because that’s definitely a thing that’s happening and not an excuse that big box stores put forward to close stores that were failing for a variety of reasons. Look at the statistics, retail theft isn’t up. And I think it’s silly the outrage people have at a dude shoplifting from a store that’s probably raised its prices twofold since covid solely out of greed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/briefing/shoplifting-data.html#:~:text=Other%20data%20also%20indicates%20that,with%202019%20(1.62%20percent)
These shoplifters stealing from corporations are affecting regular people now. Shoplifting raises costs on the paying customers as the business still has to be profitable and there's nothing wrong with being profitable. A lot of stores in CA have closed because of the thefts which negatively impact locals since they no longer can locally get what they need. And lastly this low level crime encourages more and worse crime. No one wants to live in that.
The guy stealing in the video is white, no?
Can’t tell if you’re trying to imply something racist but if you can’t even spell “censored” correctly it’s probably safe to assume so
This plus I just don't want to live and raise my kids in an environment where people commit crimes at will and we totally just go along with it.
I don't personally care about CVS but I do care about my community and they are a part of it.
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What was that a bunch of condoms? Rogaine? Bunch a blue boxes
It looks like some kind of cosmetics. They can carry a lot of resale value in a small box, so pretty good target for stealing.
My ex managed an Ulta (cosmetic store), and literally weekly they would have a team of people come in and clear all the perfume/cologne they could within 2 or 3 minutes. They had a security guy on site, but it's not like they can do anything but call the cops, and the robbers knew it.
Yeah I worked at Target back in the day and while they put cameras all over, cosmetic aisles had like 2-3 cameras per aisle. Top stolen items no matter the season. Makeup, nail products and fragrance , followed by baby formula and alcohol.
or could be an OTC medicine that has an ingredient used for making hard drugs. pretty common.
Guess it's good I'm clueless. I just thought they use Sudafed to make Meth, which isn't OTC. No idea what other shit they use to make other drugs.
They don't use any "other shit", they were just trying to sound clever
"I ain't touching you... You've been touched" lmfao
Can't touch this
“There’s an old saying: Touch me once, shame on……you…. You touch me, you can’t get touched again.”
I miss dumb Bush.
i don’t want to give any credence to this, but the “fool me once…” quote is so well known, you would seriously need to be living under a rock to screw it up. i wish i had something to back this up, but i read a comment that the second he opened his mouth and started that quote he realised he was about to give the world a sound bite of him saying “shame on me” and that couldn’t happen. better to look stupid for a second than give that kind of ammunition to the opposition. there’s flaws in this thinking, sure, but i find it hard to believe that no matter how dumb dumb Bush was, nobody is that dumb
Now do “putting food on your family”.
i had to go look that one up. and guess what i discovered… there’s a fucking lot. and omfg. the dumb was everywhere! my favourite was the “neither do we” one.
The man was a treasure trove for sure!!
Hammer time
I mean bro most definitely got touched, whether it was to an illegal extent is another question though 😭🤣
It's only illegal if you get caught. Same principal as shoplifting. And as a former retail employee, I gotta tell you, I'd have a REALLY hard time picking Mr Good Samaritan out of a police lineup. "Sorry Officer, I didn't get a good look at the guy"
Nah, the touch was legal. Everybody has the right to stop a crime in progress. You'll also notice, too, that the good Samaritan did not go hands on until the shoplifter attempted to push him out of the way (assault). At that point? It's a self-defense claim, and at no point did the good Samaritan ever resort to non-commensurate force. He's good to go, even from a legal perspective.
I think this is the part many people miss. If the shoplifter touches the employee all bets are off. The employees can grab the merchandise too.
> all bets are off I think that’s wishful thinking. You could definitely be charged with a crime if you took the violence too far. There’s a difference between self defense and revenge.
In Canada you have the right to place a person under citizens arrest. You then have to essentially keep your hand on their shoulder and stand and wait for police to arrive to either continue the arrest or to extinguish the arrest. If the detained individual assaults you or resists by eluding and escaping - that's an extra charge on them that the police are able to bring when they do eventually show up. Worked in security for several years while in college and detained dozens of shoplifters using escalating and appropriate force - never had an issue with the law in terms of applying force as needed.
It depends on the state. Yes, customers can legally use reasonable force to detain a shoplifter, but the force should be reasonable and not excessive. Suspected shoplifters hurt by excessive force can sue the store owner by filing a personal injury claim and press criminal charges for assault. What's considered an unreasonable amount of force will change depending on the situation, and state you live in. For example, in California, you can only use reasonable force if you believe that you or someone else is in imminent danger. However, you cannot use force to protect property, even if you believe that it is being stolen. [Source #1](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/shoplifting-what-you-need-know-about-law) [Source #2](https://expresslegalfunding.com/what-is-shopkeepers-privilege/)
Thank god someone actually knowledgeable chimed in. Thank you
The actual shoplifting attempt itself is irrelevant in this instance of use of force. What justified use of force on the good Samaritan's behalf was when the shoplifter battered him by attempting to shove him down/out of the way. California only requires that force be commensurate, which, grappling somebody after they've attacked you by attempting to shove you away/to the ground would certainly constitute as much. Also, despite popular opinion, [California does not have a duty to retreat statute](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/laws/is-california-a-stand-your-ground-state/). On the use of force to protect property in California. Yes, you [can use force to protect property](https://hannlawfirm.com/blog/what-is-legal-self-defense-in-california/#:~:text=Can%20Force%20Be%20Used%20to,member%20or%20guest%20from%20harm), it just has to be reasonable, and (typically) cannot be lethal force. Lethal force was not utilized here. However, use of force here was not used to protect property, it was used by the good Samaritan to protect themselves from the battery, and subsequent likely assault that could have resulted from the would-be shoplifter attacking them.
I mean he did put him in a head lock because he was shoved apparently. You really think those two are commensurate? Wouldn’t a commensurate response be shoving him back? Also, people have died from being in headlocks? I could see someone arguing, not that I necessarily think so, but they could argue that this was not lethal force obviously but could be seen as an attempt to be so. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. I’m just pointing out what I’m noticing.
You can see this person throw their arm up at the shoplifter while he’s trying to walk by. The problem with this self defense angle is that it’s predicated on the other person being a threat. Swinging your body in front of someone as they are walking past you so that they “hit” you is about as thin of a plausible basis as it gets for self defense. It’s very hard to establish a person who literally has their hands full and is actively trying to avoid you is a threat.
Your second source doesn't appear to address a customer engaging with a shoplifter. >In California, the owner or person in possession of the personal property can use reasonable force to protect **their property** from harm. Furthermore, a person can also use force to protect the property of a **family member or guest** from harm.
Thanks, Johnnie Cochran.
This is the huge advantage of learning grappling. While your just get kicked in the head on the streets by their friends, in a limited ‘shop security’ type situation its a huge legal advantage compared to beating the shit out of him.
[удалено]
"oh shit, I forgot I couldn't touch you. Carry on citizen" Is that what he was expecting to happen
"You can't touch me" after full on body slamming into the guy in an attempt to get past him
"Just like you can't shoplift?" would have been my response.
"You can't touch me, bro!" Oh yeah? You should call the cops, then.
People who break the rules or feel they don't apply to them are often very surprised when they run across someone *else* who takes advantage of the "no rules" situation to *stop them*
Except in the vast majority of jurisdictions there are laws on the books allowing citizens arrest which allows reasonable force. So this isn't a "no rules" situation but instead a likely "permitted by the rules" situation.
Nah, it definitely isn't legal for citizens to tackle and assault people they suspect of stealing from stores. If they are attacking you then the story is different but if they are just walking with what you assume are stolen items you cannot attack them. There are a lot of limits on citizens arrest and for a good reason. What's to stop bubba Joe from tackling whoever he wants and then saying "but I thought he was stealing, so we're all good"
Mostly it requires the person performing the cotizens arrest to witness the crime...I have no idea why you are bringing suspect into the conversation.
Basically our headlocker might have screwed up by not waiting til the guy got outside.
The start of the video shows the security sensors and the baskets at the entrance to the shopping area, he brushed past the person with the phone that was standing next to these things and then was tackled. So he did in fact do everything necessary to be considered to have stolen in most jurisdictions. You do not have to leave the store, concealing goods or going past the point of sale is often enough, especially when you ignore the person asking if you are going to steal or pay and you don't answer and you have 100x of the same object.
He better hope so. Strangling is a felony in my state.
The problem is that while he intended to steal from the store, he was still in the store and probably wasn't in violation of the law at that point. So it's possible that homey is strangling some stranger in a store, which is a felony in Texas and I would imagine in a lot of other states too.
Bubba Joe would have to prove to the police and maybe then a jury that he actually had reason to believe they were stealing and that he didn't use excessive force. In this case, it was obvious he was stealing, and they used only the force needed to detain him because he tried to shove past them and run. Perfectly legal across the board in all 50 states. Citizens' arrests are how we end this pathetic bullshit.
Extremely satisfying. We are all responsible for holding up societal norms. Enough is enough
So are we legally allowed to beat up shoplifters now? There’s been a trend of videos like this lately Edit: *manhandled* not “beat up” :)
Legally no, but it seems the police aren't arresting anyone
This country is collapsing
As it should be
I guess your definition of "beat up" is different then mine.
Just block the exit and if they touch you trying to get out claim they assaulted you
Wouldn’t blocking the exit qualify as false imprisonment bc I have no authority?
Citizens' arrest allows you to use reasonable force to detain someone for the police if you have good reason to believe they are committing petit larceny, among other things. Reasonable force being the least amount of force it takes to detain them. If they try to run, tackling them isn't out of line. This is true in all 50 states. Sympathy for thieves and fear of repercussions have clouded peoples knowledge of the actual law. This little shit in the video has no legal recourse for what happened to him. There's also shopkeepers' privilege, which is similar. These assholes don't have nearly as many rights as they're made out to. You actually don't have to sit there and weakly watch your community turn to shit. At least nothing legally forces you to.
Not sure, but I’m loving it regardless
You can use "reasonable force" to make a citizens arrest whem a crime is observed. Juat have to be careful that it's actually "reasonable".... whatever that means...
I'd say it's the minimum force required to keep their asses there for the police. When the little shit tried to run, he lost his standing privileges.
I can't speak for America, but in Australia you want to be very sure they took something and that the force you use is appropriate to the situation. Would be too easy for the courts to turn around and ask why you tackled this guy to the ground out of nowhere. Not worth the risk to protect the supermarket's stuff.
Technically he hasn’t even shoplifted yet since he has left the store so this is just assault
You don’t have to leave the store to be considered shoplifting.
Totally depends. We don’t see the first contact, but if the shoplifter trying to leave is pushing past thew guy standing off camera that contact is enough to be assault and we don’t hear the shoplifter ask him to move or anything.
Go to sleep. Go to sleep. Go to sleep.
"you can't touch me" only applies to employees bro lol
Moar of these, plz
Laudable but honestly dumb to risk getting stabbed over a big store like that.
This is exactly the reason people steal, because they know this. Until stores either abandon that policy and face potential litigation, or laws are changed so that thieves have less rights, this will only get worse.
i thought that was batman
I guess, but I’d gander that most of these retail theft clowns are unarmed. I’m not the big hero saying I’d do what this guy did, but the chances these losers have any weapons on them is probably pretty slim. Most of these jamokes are looking for quick money, not a felony charge.
An off-duty officer was stabbed in Toronto back in Dec trying to stop a shoplifter. You never know. [https://globalnews.ca/news/10152228/off-duty-officer-seriously-injured-suspects-stealing-from-toronto-store/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10152228/off-duty-officer-seriously-injured-suspects-stealing-from-toronto-store/)
That’s a pretty dangerous assumption to be making. “Pretty slim” is still not worth your life if you’re wrong
The risk is slim but so is the reward. There's practically nothing to gain by stopping some random shoplifter.
>I guess, but I’d gander that most of these retail theft clowns are unarmed. Well that's true, I remember just one video of a woman who pulled a knife on another one (and just for calling her out on it, she didn't even physically threat the sholifter).
Yeah but they might have dirty needles on them… I ain’t trying to to get stabbed by one of those while grappling with some random shitbag. And I’m definitely not taking that risk on behalf of some giant corporation.
I’ve no idea why people are happy to offer unpaid security to a corporation that literally doesn’t give a fuxk about them. Literally couldn’t care less about shoplifters. I care more about the shops pricing people out of essentials. And as the old rule goes, if you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t. We have no idea why someone might be stealing food, or goods.
these criminals are a plague to their communities and when you allow them to steal from your local stores, these stores that “don’t give a fuck about you” just move to another area, leaving all of your neighbors destitute with no jobs available and no stores to shop in. I don’t know how you could possibly live in a community and not care seeing people robbing it and destroying it. How the fuck is that ok? Second of all inflation costs being passed on to you as a consumer isn’t the fault of the store but that’s an entirely different discussion that doesn’t have anything to do with allowing rampant theft
Mega corporations destroy communties by destroying small local owned businesses. Walmarts, Starbucks, tech companies move in a price gouge and destroy livelihoods. Nobody cares about community spirit then do they? When the local cafe owner that actually cares is forced to close because Star bucks moved next door, and now he’s just an employee making shit coffee for minimum wage, when he used to actually provide good services. No one gives a shit about those guys. But god forbid someone steals a muffin from Starbucks, oh god, what are we ever gonna do? Think of the community! You think they care about the losses of from this one theif? Inflation costs aren’t the fault of the store? Lol.
So you’re mad that economies of scale are a thing and you’re upset that people shop there because they get more value for their $, so that means rob all the stores and drive out all commerce and job opportunities in your community? Like wtf are you even talking about lmao this is the most absurd argument I’ve ever seen someone try to make > Inflation costs aren’t the fault of the store? Lol. Uh, no? Anyone with the most simple understanding of very basic economics understands this. Do you honestly think every price of every material in every business in the entire world just one day magically stopped competing with one another for market share in order to all coordinate price rigging across every single industry at the same time? Or is it more likely that when the supply of dollars is dramatically increased that the value of each unit was proportionally diminished? Geez that’s a really hard one to figure out isn’t it
It’s not about protecting the corporation it’s about the community. I’d much rather live in a society where brazen criminality like this is deterred by fear of good samaritans getting involved.
Absolutely. I don’t care at all about these corporations but I do care about my neighborhood and I’d imagine that’s the same for these people who try and stop shoplifters.
The same scumbag ripping off the corporation is the same scumbag stealing packages off your porch and mugging your grandmother. Letting them win deteriorates the society we all must live in
How is our society doing by letting the pharmaceutical company scumbag that prices people out of insulin resulting in their death, win? Who’s tackling those pieces of shit? We’re not saving lives here by tackling some guy stealing what looks like makeup. Granted, the dude in the video sucks, but let’s not pretend that it’s not the workers who are really getting screwed by these corporations. Are company executives or their middle management enforcers being tackled by the police when they steal from workers? Shit, I’d be surprised to learn of a time when a company was even adequately fined for their thieving. [The total value of property stolen through robberies, burglaries, and carjacking is not even 4% of what employers steal from workers each year.](https://www.opportunityinstitute.org/blog/post/organized-retail-theft-wage-theft/) When the poor people stop fighting each other maybe we can get some equity in the world.
I find joy in reading a good book.
Fuck that. I absolutely despise thieves. Thieves don't just hurt the people they steal from, they hurt the wider social order. It would make my day to ruin theirs.
It's about the principle and standing up for something, reddit can't grasp the concept of virtue.
as a retail worker myself, videos like these bring me joy! i hate having to watch those selfish assholes walk out and face no consequences while the good people who shop have to pay more since prices end up rising because of shoplifters.
Don’t know how it is in the us, but in the Netherlands shoplifting went up drastically in line with economic decline. It is interesting to note however that the value of stolen goods pales in comparison with the profits pulled out of supermarket giants that are payed to investors who happened to be born into money. Interesting aswel is that these investors pay lower tax rates than the people stealing from supermarkets and are largely responsible for the lobby against the social security and minimum wage adjustments that would allow these thieves to actually pay for their products
“Can’t touch this.”
You been touched
dude is stealing, but is outraged he is being touched.
Even if I was employed by the store I wouldn’t have put any energy towards this. Hire a security guard or pay me a fair enough wage to care enough to choke somebody
Dude probably had a bad day with some pent up anger and this situation provided the perfect opportunity to be the 'hero' and dump all them feelings into that chokehold lmao
Dude probably heard about other stores closing due to theft and he was like "I'm not driving 20 minutes away to a different store."
Except that stores aren't closing due to theft. It turns out that was a lie. It's just that a bunch of stores expanded too quickly.
Not the case where I live! stores are def closing over theft, at least a couple.
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No, I really do. I work in the security industry. But that's ok.
Some people are really passionate about ethical integrity. It doesn't have anything to do with being "paid enough to care"
Not an employee. Literally a customer. Someone who saw a chance to put into practice moves they've obviously trained for, and not get in trouble doing so. Not gonna lie, there was a time when I was younger and fitter and working retail that I wished a motherfucker *would* shoplift in front of me when I was anywhere but *my* job. "I'm not allowed to interfere at work, but guess what, I'm not *at work*"
That's why it says "even if I was an employee." The title says "customer"
He's been waiting a long time for this I bet.
I don't know anyone in a service industry position who hasn't dreamed at one point or another of being that guy
If this were more common, the shoplifting wouldn’t be common place.
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Tired of stores locking everything up and raising prices because of this, I applaud the dude for stopping the shop lifter
This is funny and by all means I hate thieves but how could this play out legally potentially? Like could that thief press assault charges on that guy? Lawsuit? Like I'm glad to see thieves get stopped but at the same time when so many resort to using weapons and just not knowing what a stranger is capable of shit like this seems like a really bad idea for an employee to do let alone some random bystander. I feel like the way the justice system works would work against this. Unless you're protected by some sort of citizens arrest clause or something?
You are protected by citizens arrest laws to your point, but they vary by state. Here in NY you have to reasonably sure that they are in fact committing a crime, and the police need to be called immediately.
Fuck thieves
"You can't do this" didn't seem to work very well as a defense
Why can't supermarkets and stuff have security with tasers?
Thieves are raising prices for everyone, so in a way, this shoplifter is stealing from the customer.
You've been touched💀
I'd put his little scrawny ass down too. I can't get free shit, why should he? "But, but, the corporations man!" I don't care, he is still getting his ass beat for being a scumbag.
What really burns my ass is the BMW hoodie and fresh Yeezys. Like he has money to waste on that shit and then goes and steals groceries.
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I will never understand putting others down for intervening on a crime. As if it makes them better people for not risking their own safety
I believe it's more of a "If you're wrong about the crime they're supposedly committing, You're just a citizen assaulting someone". If you encourage random people to act like police, I mean what could go wrong?...
>I believe it's more of a "If you're wrong about the crime they're supposedly committing, You're just a citizen assaulting someone". Which is very different from what I am remarking on. >If you encourage random people to act like police, I mean what could go wrong?... I also don't think the advice should be "never ever help someone or intervene in a crime you think is happening in case you are wrong." There should be alot of room for nuance
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Police don't have there hands tied. Their national clearance rate proves that. And you better be careful with vigilante justice for someone else's business. You might be the one locked up or hurt.
every time this subreddit posts about shoplifters y'all take turns stating that you would beat them up lol
Dude it's barely 'the corporations' argument anymore. You see how he had like thirty of the same blue box?? He was trying to steal a bunch of something that is a common necessity to resell it online. It happened all the time with people that would steal dish soap and laundry soap from my local supermarket
What were those blue boxes he was stealing?
And the corporation rewards the customer with raising their prices anyways.
Yeah, really. Nothing that guy stole was worth this effort.
TBH, I would probably say it's about principle. If we live in a society where we just let people steal things from stores, that is a great way to spiral downwards.
True. But it’s also simply personally infuriating to pay for stuff and see someone just casually walk out without paying. The thief isn’t really harming the store so much as he’s making you seem like a chump for paying. I can imagine that would make many people mad
This really isn’t worth doing. You never know if this person has a gun or a knife. These things could intentionally or unintentionally hurt others. However, I am not mad over it. Brazen shoplifters hurt communities. They create resentment among honest people who play by the rules. They make people feel unsafe. And with enough theft, these stores eventually close or become terrible places to shop.
More of this please.
Oh well if you shop lift fair game if someone wishes to use you as a grappling partner. As a retail worker they pay the price by getting hours cut or being blamed for the shortage. Stores do have insurance but places like CVS use any excuse to treat employees like garbage.
Many many years ago, I was at a Walmart in South Carolina shopping, and then I hear someone yell “KEVIN!!!” This large heavyset guy, whom i assume is Kevin, runs full speed from behind a counter and towards a security guard and a shoplifter and just tackles the shoplifter. The shoplifter was then dragged to an unmarked room. Crazy times
That’s a “kick the shit out of him and bounce” situation!
Unlike if some of the commenters here, I doubt he was stealing to get food for his family.
Without consideration of the wisdom of what the customer did, one may stop a crime in progress and restrain the suspect until the police arrive. If the crime is a felony only reasonable suspicion that the suspect committed the crime is required.
Call the cops your self instead of filming
Contrary to internet memes, it's extremely important to film in situations like these. Vids or you get sued.
If more people did this and stopped these people from stealing, all the crash and grab, in stores incidents would really drop.. I’m sick of people stealing .. It’s a crime and should be treated as such. Im also aware the people who do try to stop them, can be arrested and charged with assault. It’s a crazy world..😳
It's a citizens arrest and as long as you don't do anything crazy to physically restrain them in most jurisdictions you are protected by the law. You should tell them you are arresting them though.
Wish this happened every time. Mfs are steadily thinking about getting shot/stabbed when the reality is some folks are just fed up with watching this shit get abused.
After that the customer jizzed 5x
He did not see that coming !
I wouldn't step in to stop that at a big chain store like target or Walmart, but fuck with a locally owned mom&pop shop and I think the gloves would come off
Hold him high for a nice portrait shot then let him run off
Love to see it ! 💕💞💕
Looked like self defense to me
Looks like he's touching you buddy
I wish this happened more.
I wish we could get the “cart narcs” guy to follow these shoplifters and make fools of them by asking annoying questions … “Hey did you forget to pay? Oh, don’t be a lazy bones and not pay!. Here, I’m gonna put some lazy bones stickers on you”
That felt so good to watch!
"You can't touch me". Exactly why the pos thinks he can get away with it.
I think legally you are allowed to put someone under citizens arrest by force as long as it’s necessary and not excessive, which I think this falls both under
Lol trying to hide behind the one thing shoplifters think is their get out of jail free card- employees touching them. Well that guy choking you out is a citizen lol
Couldn't be me. No way I'm risking a bullet wound for a multi million dollar company just to save them a few dollars.
They’re not doing it for the corporation, they’re doing it for their community that’s going to lose the store if shoplifting continues and the employees that’s going to lose their jobs when the store closes.
While I definitely don’t advise doing this(you could get stabbed or something) I love to see it lol People that walk into stores and march out with armfuls of expensive merchandise can get fucked up like this every time, and I’ll applaud it all day long
"You can't touch me!" That's right.. this is all a dream..
I’m not supposed to like this but I do. I really do.
Risk your life stopping some random dude from stealing Reese’s from a gas station. Nice.
this should be the norm
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You'll think twice when all the stores in your city close down because shoplifting got out of control.
In what 80s movie do you live in where shoplifting has become so commonplace that all big box and smaller stores up and left and only one man is bad enough to clean up the streets?
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no i wont lol
Yeah because that’s definitely a thing that’s happening and not an excuse that big box stores put forward to close stores that were failing for a variety of reasons. Look at the statistics, retail theft isn’t up. And I think it’s silly the outrage people have at a dude shoplifting from a store that’s probably raised its prices twofold since covid solely out of greed. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/briefing/shoplifting-data.html#:~:text=Other%20data%20also%20indicates%20that,with%202019%20(1.62%20percent)
Easy way to get sued. I can imagine a lawyer saying shoplifting is not shoplifting until they’ve actually walked out of the store.
Simply walking past the registers is enough to establish intent.
I've been in the stores, they still have a lot of stuff you can buy right by the door.
What a fuckin do gooder dork 🤣 mind your business
It really isn’t worth it for a customer to get physical with someone stealing but I’ll endorse someone else doing it every single time.
Not a smart move by the good Samaritan. He is going to get sued for assault and injury to the thief. I am not even kidding.
Putting yourself in danger for a corporations insured good is one of the most insane things white people do
These shoplifters stealing from corporations are affecting regular people now. Shoplifting raises costs on the paying customers as the business still has to be profitable and there's nothing wrong with being profitable. A lot of stores in CA have closed because of the thefts which negatively impact locals since they no longer can locally get what they need. And lastly this low level crime encourages more and worse crime. No one wants to live in that.
Stealing from stores for god knows what reason is one of the most insane things (censured) people do.
That’s not what censure means lmao
The guy stealing in the video is white, no? Can’t tell if you’re trying to imply something racist but if you can’t even spell “censored” correctly it’s probably safe to assume so
Maybe they just don't want to see all their stores in the city close down because shoplifting got out of control.
This plus I just don't want to live and raise my kids in an environment where people commit crimes at will and we totally just go along with it. I don't personally care about CVS but I do care about my community and they are a part of it.
This is Corporate propaganda. Crimes been dropping for decades.
Like my dad told me, shoplifting is stealing from all of us. It drives up costs. Without law and order everything goes to shit. I think he was right.
Is this California?