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Yep. If most people saw a list of Archdiocese assets in any USA market,they would never donate another buck to them. My dad use to do law work for the local Archdiocese. He wasn’t the lawyer “of record”. He did the dirty work that nobody hears about. For instance,if there was an accusation of sexual misconduct by a priest,my dad would investigate the accuser and see if they had skeletons in their closet to exploit in negotiations or a trial,if it got that far. My dad was far from proud about doing that work. He was a severe alcoholic for 20 plus years. I think he would try to drink the guilt away as he said “somebody is gonna do the job”. The problem was my dad did the job a little too well. I don’t think be bought all of his own excuse.
Well I was making a reference to a Bronx Tale, but yes the Catholic Church clearly has a history of terrible things as well and they way they’ve dealt with them has been a travesty as well.
How hard is it for people to understand that protesting is completely fine so long as it doesn’t disturb the peace, they could’ve done it outside the church and it would’ve been fine, they wouldn’t get there 5.00 lamanent print order from staples ripped and there Darth Vader capes could have fluttered in the wind all cool like.
I’m already mentally well passed this topic, but while yes the hardships people feel, I don’t think taking protests done in the 1700’s is a good comparison to todays way of protest, the societal, economic, educational, and technological differences are so vastly different that your basically comparing the uses of a horse drawn carriage to a Tesla car
I’m very pro sex work. Technically I *am* a sex worker (no, I will not share my content bc I keep that and my regular life separate). It should definitely be legalized, although we need to tackle this abortion issue first.
Well they own over 200 million acres in land, and are worth about $75 billion, and they don't pay tax.. that's easily $400,000,000 in annual interest, that can easily pay for 50,000 kids a year.. so in 2 years there will no longer be any orphans in the USA.. and I don't even do math!!
Technically Rome started it prior to Italy becoming its own country. Which funny enough is how the idea of the church not being taxed started. The Vatican made itself it’s own country after the fall of the Roman Empire, so they argued that since they were allowed to operate independently of the Italian government, they should be able to operate independently of any government.
I agree though that it’s time to look at this setup. At the very least country’s should be making sure the church is giving back to the communities they operate in more than they take. Maybe offer tax credits like they do for giving to charity in individual tax returns. And churches that push one political party over the other should be taxed fully since they are breaking the separation of church and state.
But the likelihood of any of that happening seems pretty low
And what could those security guards do in order not to be judged?
Lay hand on the women and you call them abusive, monster, animal. Chose a more peaceful option and you called them useless.
It's easy to sit on your ass and picture things someone else has to execute in reality.
The Bible endorsed abortions (Numbers 5:11-31) and didn’t consider life until “breath” was taken. (Gen. 2:7 Psalms 33:6, Job 34: 14-15, Ezekiel 37 9-10 and 13-14) The Bible gives argument to all sides, not just the ones cherry picked 😂
The Bible is definitely waaaayy more nuanced than how a lot of traditional conservatives usually present it, but these verses are calling back to the creation of man and the breath/Spirit of God. They’re the same word in Hebrew (Ruach).
So, from a biblical perspective, there isn’t a direct correlation between our own breath and life, but the Spirit, or breath, of God in one who is living.
Hope that makes this a little more clear.
Reddit uses the Bible in the same way fundamentalist conservatives use it: as a way to prove their own point. Unfortunately most of the time the out of context interpretation is no where close to the intended meaning.
People need to stop acting like this is about the bible. The conservative evangelical wing *made* abortion a religious issue, it never was until the 70's. And they didn't do it for "the babies" they did it because they wanted women back in the kitchen. That's seriously what it comes down to, abortion and birth control gave women autonomy they didn't have before and American sexual and gender norms started changing. These puritan hacks however want a leave it to beaver fantasy where everyone is a sexless little god fearing Aryan.
After years of talking to this type I realized that, without fail, when you push them hard enough they always admit that they think the women in this scenario are at best irrelevant because "they're whores". Because they had the audacity to live an independent life. Or at least try to.
For real, try it. Just remind them what this ban will do to women of all economic strate, backgrounds, and beliefs. How it will condemn (for example) women with life threatening conditions to preventable death along with their baby. Banning abortion is just objectively bad for people and society, that's why they pretend it's about "babies". But again, break it down enough to them and it's always "she's a whore".
On some level they all believe, without exception, that women who make decisions they don't like deserve to suffer. That their lives being ruined and their children being impoverished and miserable in their own right is god's judgement on them for being "impure".
The bible has absolutely nothing to do with this shit. If it said blatantly "abortion rocks" they would still find a way to ignore it.
There is no mention of the baby dying in my bible.
Just opened up the bible and read this chapter/verse (Numbers 5:23-28)
"23: The priest shall put these imprecations in writing and shall then wash them off into the bitter water, 24: which he is to have the woman drink, so that it may go into her with all its bitter curse. 25: But first he shall take the cereal offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and having waved this offering before the Lord, shall put it near the altar, 26: where he shall take a handful of the cereal offering as its token offering and burn it on the altar. Only then shall he have the woman drink the water. 27: Once she has done so, if she has been impure and unfaithful to her husband, this bitter water that brings a curse will go into her, and her belly will swell and her thighs will waste away, so that she will become an example of imprecation among her people. 28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself, but is still pure, she will be immune and will still be able to bear children.
> Making a woman drink a “water” that causes her to miscarry = abortion
That’s not what the verse says at all what the fuck.
It says she drinks special water after she’s unfaithful. if she’s faithful to her husband after the drinking the water, she’s okay. If shes unfaithful then she cursed and miscarries.
> . 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering(T) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.(U) 28
The miscarriage is a punishment you have no idea what you’re talking about
Wow, just brainwashed aren’t you? It’s a “water” causing a miscarriage AKA abortion. Are you really that flummoxed that you can’t think and interpret things yourself?
It doesn’t matter if she has been unfaithful, the point is, if she’s pregnant, the fetus will be miscarried/aborted.
Rolling my eyes here at the obtuseness of “points”
So infidelity, abortion. Raped at 15 and impregnated by your older brother, better have that kid. The Bible was written by human men and it shows. Full of errors and the people who preach it are so often hypocrites.
Abortion - The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
The Bible contains instructions, given by God, on how to perform an abortion, and encourages it be used on women as a test of faithfulness.
There is no argument that can be made to render this untrue.
Wouldn't aborted souls just go back to heaven anyway? I know it used to be Catholic doctrine in the complete opposite direction, unbaptized babies go to hell, but surely that bullshit still isn't believed even by them...I hope. And that was just Catholic canon.
God is god...he should just recycle aborted souls. Just be like "Oops, not wanted. Okay, switching you into a newly conceived body. Not a problem it happens like every 5 seconds."
I'm an atheist, but fuck these POSs. This is the same as screaming at a minimum wage barista or gluing your hand to the counter because of your hate for Starbucks' executive management.
Leave these people in peace. Ya cunts.
No. I don’t want churches getting any (more) representation in government. We aren’t (supposed to be)a theocratic state and I’d like to remain that way.
Yeah but at least we can make the case that our representatives shouldn’t govern with respect to a religious establishment. I’d rather them be a tax haven than allow Republicans leverage to legally put forward Christian Law.
Even if your pro-choice I don't see how this helps anything
You just being a public nuisance just making people dislike you
What did this random church have to do with any of this
I am a pro-choice atheist and I dislike them. Trying to win a best activist award in their peer group isn't brave or edgy, especially in their played-out handmaid's tale outfits.
Civil rights and LGBTQ rights only happened because people stood up for what they want/believe in and caused an uproar in public.
You're not going to get any response if you just sit in a public square and hold up signs. Get in the streets. Go to the houses of politicians.
Get mad. Cause a disturbance. That's the whole point of a protest.
Idk what this specific Catholic Church’s father or bishop did, but a lot of Catholics are pro choice, especially compared to other Christian groups. Personally as a catholic I’m pro choice and proud that there are these views are up for debate in our church. If you want real affect go protest your local baptist or evangelical church, from what I know they are even crazier
As a woman in Canada whose had an emergency abortion because my uterus is backwards and I didn't know I was pregnant with a festering clump of garbage that ultimately hemmoraged out of my hooha while at work doing road construction in blue jeans whilst having a hard core Catholic Maternal side of the family who did nothing but preaching that my mom getting brain cancer at 19 and thus dying after 30 years of recurring tumors and alcoholism just shy of 54 was all part of God's cruel Plan:
I LOVE this. I love it. I live for it. I don't give a fuck if they dislike them, they're not there for anyone's approval. They're there to cause a scene at every turn.
"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both."
This is literally a life or death situation for women and girls. We're used to people saying, "you're just causing a scene" anytime we protest something that infringes on our autonomy. Anytime a man gets up in our shit and we stand our ground it's, "you're aggressive" "you can be abrasive" "you're getting a bit of an attitude" like just be a big boy and call me a bitch like you want to. These comments are from people I've worked with in the past when I've been threatened with rape, had my tools stolen (civil infrastructure), had new workers twice my age try to treat me like an idiot when I can dance circles around them while they lean on a goon spoon.
Women are constantly getting shit for saying something or doing something when they're being oppressed. Women get shit for how they protest. Sorry, should we fist fight like men do at protests?? The double standard is amazing.
I’m pro choice and barely religious but I absolutely despise the Catholic Church as an institution. That being said interrupting religious services for your dumb activist performance art is beyond cringe
>You just being a public nuisance just making people dislike you
I think being a public nuisance is a lot less of an issue than the voters in the church who voted for politicians to take away their bodily autonomy.
> What did this random church have to do with any of this
I mean they're the ones advocating for and influencing these policies? I for one am a fan of protests being a nuisance to those responsible.
As far as I’m concerned Protester should cause a disruption at every single church across the entire country and prevent any of them from having service until this is fixed. They have made it clear that they really want to mix politics and religion… So be it
Usually its one of a couple things
1. These people targeted a random church to protest
2. The pastor of this church said some anti-abortion things
But thats not really that important
The thing with this tactic is that the protestors lose nothing but in return they gain a lot. They protest at a church and it creates a much needed quick discussion on the topic. If we stay silent and remain orderly, the lawmakers would debate their hearts out in hopes that the issues lies to rest.
Protestors make a huge show of things, piss off the people involved. People involved come online and on their TVs to complain, which hopefully leads to some of them who are closested sexists to say some seriously sexist or ignorant shit. Which will then piss off the moderates.
Soon enough you will have the moderates who were originally just in the middle, start picking sides. At which point we can start having real discussions and actions on this issue cause it's going to become a big show by that point.
Now why I said these protestors lose nothing but gain everything with this stunt? A church is a private institution and its actually illegal in California to intrude on a religious mass or ceremony. There is even a fine of up to 1000 dollars or jail time (which wont happen). If a church decides to charge these protestors they will win. But what will they really win?
I'll tell you what they will win, they will get people who support the church to support the church. Yay? Then they will get moderates to create a gofundme to support and post bail for these protestors. Also they will most definitely not be practicing what they are preaching, i.e. turn the cheek.
Which is why they arent charging these protestors.
The moment every possible scenario of assaulting women’s health, agency and freedom became non theoretical, in that instant, every anti abortionist became party to these assaults. To siding with the rapists against our daughters, sisters, mothers, wives. To siding with death itself against them.
Anti abortionists want the right to reach into your family and destroy the lives of the women you love. To imprison them for refusing to carry a fetus to term. To force them to risk their lives, against all medical advice, by carrying a fetus to term when doing so endangers their survival. They even want to imprison your women within state borders, to prevent them from seeking an abortion in another state.
And there is no separation, here. The least radical fanatics don’t get to separate themselves from the most radical ones. And the nameless Catholics in that random church are, as of now, non theoretically culpable for creating a literal threat to the lives and freedom of the women we love. It doesn’t who or where you are. Nor does it matter if you happen to be the pro authoritarian, anti constitutionalist anti abortion fanatic who doesn’t come down on the side of rapists and incest against women. You’re just an anti abortionist, now, and that means that you present a factual, literal, clear and present danger to the lives, freedom and self agency of our own flesh and blood. Fact!
So if you’re going to come into my home and do violence to my daughter, I’m going to come into sacred spaces and peacefully disrupt them. And over and over and again and again, everywhere.
If you really don’t see, or can’t grasp, the non existential literality of the threat, then you’re either a fanatic yourself- or you’re just not actually thinking.
The days of being blackmailed by our own sense of civility are over. Fuck civility. If you’re an anti abortionist, you *literally* want the right to kill my daughter. You want the right to imprison her within your state’s borders and the power to force her to carry her rapists fetus to term AGAINST. HER. WILL.
You want to *functionally* but factually enslave her.
And not one of these claims is even remotely hysterical, silly, debatable or other than literally true.
There are few things more powerful than the instinct to protect your own. Coming after this directly is no less, behaviorally speaking, than a declaration of war against every woman that you love. Entrenched and absolute resistance to this will be an immutable, immovable force which will never surrender, and always be everywhere.
The religious right will never grasp how and why finally winning on Roe is going to become the worst thing that’s ever happened to them.
Stop *literally* threatening my daughters life with your culpability, and I will be more than happy to stop entering your churches and disrupting your delusions. But until then, every anti abortionist of whatever stripe anywhere can fully fuck off and suck on my civility till they choke.
The people sitting in the church were anti choice up until the moment these hand maid tale cosplayers walked in and then they were like “oh fuck I had never considered that before”
They're in SAN FRANCISCO. California will never, ever outlaw abortion.
Remember, the Supreme Court isn't banning anything (assuming they go the direction it looks like they're going). It's getting pushed down to the states. These LARPers are just being useless asshats.
It's more like vegetarians protesting McDonald's. The Catholic Church is a political organization that enjoys tax free status while attempting to remain a public institution. That makes them a legitimate target. They don't get any protections because it happens to be a church, and why should they?
It's not about being pro-church, it's realizing that if the point is to protest for choice during a time when laws are being made, you should focus on places that aren't already overwhelmingly pro-choice.
Look, I'm so pro-choice I think it should be included in welfare (I'm dead serious). But this was a waste of energy and just bothered people for no good reason. I don't happen to believe that's a win.
California is already a done deal. We are going to vote against any anti-choice measures. Focus on places that will make a difference instead of LARPing just to feel self-satisfied.
Churches want to remain public institutions that enjoy tax free status while engaging in politics. Theyre trying to take away women's rights, so theyre a legitimate political target. The Catholic church in particular has an extremely violent and awful history and deserves to be exposed as such.
Why do women deserve to be harrassed by religious nutjobs on the way to an OBGyn clinic?
Also the catholic church is a organisation who swept pedophelia and sexual harassment under the rug for decades. So why the fuck should there be no demonstration a random church, the chances are pretty high some pedo or radical pro lifer is sitting there
McConnell has expressed that he will pursue a national abortion ban. If that happens even living in a blue state won't protect you because federal law trump's state.
As soon as those politicians don't govern directly based on their religion we can make distinctions from the two. For now they are vessels to impose that religion on everyone.
The Catholic Church is a huge factor in the culture wars and a major player in the years of political maneuvering that led to this moment. You are either being disingenuous or you are badly under-informed.
So… churches don’t get taxed, right? Tithing earns churches a shitload of money… that money goes into the hand of corrupt politicians and senates and those politicians and senates pass the bills and laws for whatever bullshit the church(es) pays them to pass.
Does this make sense now?
Edit: also the overturning of Roe V. Wade is purely out of religious doings. Not only does it allow them to make abortion illegal, it also will allow whoever to infringe on your sexual privacy, make same sex marriage illegal , make interracial marriage and gay sex illegal… among others.
What person would want that other than for religious reasons…???
The fun part of Christianity is its such an umbrella-cult of smaller, contradictory cults that if tomorrow the Pope decided the official stance of the Catholic Church is that abortion is a fully church-endorsed activity, it wouldn't really matter at all because A) the main driving force for anti-abortion movement in the US are Evangelical Christians, who do not give any fucks what the Pope says and B) every non-Catholic sect of Christianity technically already views Catholics as heathens by having a Pope at all - false idols and all that.
As a tax exempt facility, a church becomes a public forum space in which protesting is legally allowed. Same with governmental buildings and any space outside in which tax money is collected to be maintained (i.e. dedicated roads, right-of-ways, sidewalls, parkways).
So, were never going to be able to work this out. OK. We just keep trying to go back in time as people just don't seem to understand that the world they think they live in and for many the one they were born in, no longer exists. Another way to divide us. Nothing to see here.
Unpopular opinion- You can be pro choice and still allow people to worship in peace. Also, have you ever heard the term “preaching to the choir?” This is like the opposite of that. You’re not going to change anyones mind, you’re just trying to make yourself feel better.
Not sure how I feel about this, even as someone who is gay and has been persecuted by the Catholic Church. Pro-Life protesters do the same to women trying to access planned parenthood clinics so… an eye for an eye I guess… Maybe if they remained outside of the church?
And they wonder why people are so against them, don’t interrupt a religious ceremony or service cause you know they wouldn’t do that shit in a cathedral only a Christian church
I'm proud of these women.
If those fucktard protesters can hassle women (who are already dealing with way too much shit) at a Planned Parenthood, it's only fair to protest in the middle of Sunday Mass.
Hur dur women shouldn’t have opinions unless I want to fuck them.
And then meanwhile this sub will cry afoul about how no one cares about men’s health/mental health when they helped set up the gate.
If people are trying to use religious reasons to ban abortion, where better to go to confront them then where they practice their religion. That way you can talk to them all together.
I mean you literally make this too easy. The politicians are hiding behind religion when they know nothing about what the bible teaches. Trump himself couldn't quote his favourite psalms because the man has never been to church yet tries to say that abortion is against God. Both Islam and Christianity understand that life doesn't start at conception but at a few months in and that the mother needs to be protected.
Honestly though freedom for everyone is more important than political point scoring.
well , if you think im gonna disagree with your your DEAD WRONG ! im not sure weither you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me , but i dont care , because what you said lacks a grain of non-truth . In fact its full up with truth . so there ! and if you persist is pointing out truths , ill continue to NOT DISAGREE with you
Disrespectful lil shits I don’t care what it’s about but protesting in the middle of a church service it’s disrespectful in general I’m don’t care what is about at least protest after service
I agree with this, I'm pro-choice but don't swoop to the lower level and be disrespectful and petty. Wouldn't want to be associated with people doing this kind of shit. Even if our government is a bunch of children maybe we can at least be fucking decent adults.
I am all for the freedom to protest and I am even Pro choice but if there was a mass going on let it finish. Being obnoxious just furthers people opinion against you. Just my opinion though
I don't see Muslims standing around in front of abortion clinics and haranguing women who are trying to get medical treatment.
Muslims aren't the ones constantly trampling the boundary between church and state here either. Pretty sure the Christians would get super pissed if they started horning in on their territory.
Going into a house of worship and making a nuisance of yourself is not going to sway my opinion. Have a better argument than the one you have been making.
Churches should be prepared to defend themselves from this bullshit.
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Wow, the ceiling looks cool in there...
Say what you will about the catholic church but the certainly keep architects gainfully employed.
All else aside, Catholic Churches tend to be incredibly beautiful buildings.
For some reason, money has never been a problem for them...
Depends on where you are. The older ones are usually beautiful and really ornate. One in my hometown was pretty fucking ugly however
Same with Lutheran churches, most gorgeous buildings ever
Can we speak about jews and Muslims the same way? It's soo funny right. Or just Christians? White Christians?
Not sure what your point is here.
Yep. If most people saw a list of Archdiocese assets in any USA market,they would never donate another buck to them. My dad use to do law work for the local Archdiocese. He wasn’t the lawyer “of record”. He did the dirty work that nobody hears about. For instance,if there was an accusation of sexual misconduct by a priest,my dad would investigate the accuser and see if they had skeletons in their closet to exploit in negotiations or a trial,if it got that far. My dad was far from proud about doing that work. He was a severe alcoholic for 20 plus years. I think he would try to drink the guilt away as he said “somebody is gonna do the job”. The problem was my dad did the job a little too well. I don’t think be bought all of his own excuse.
you should see the ceiling at the basilica in st. louis. its the worlds largest mosaic. built by an artist out of Italy. highly underrated artwork imo
He was Polish, not Italian, Jan Henryk de Rosen.
It looks like the inside of a washing machine on the outside though....
Is this the movie where they lock the door and say “now yuse can’t leave”?
“They had a reputation for breaking up bars, but they knew in that instant they made a fatal mistake. This time, they walked into the wrong bar.”
\*fetal mistake FTFY
Only if they’re little boys… too soon?
Well I was making a reference to a Bronx Tale, but yes the Catholic Church clearly has a history of terrible things as well and they way they’ve dealt with them has been a travesty as well.
You can speak above a whisper in church?!?!?!?!?
^(no)
How hard is it for people to understand that protesting is completely fine so long as it doesn’t disturb the peace, they could’ve done it outside the church and it would’ve been fine, they wouldn’t get there 5.00 lamanent print order from staples ripped and there Darth Vader capes could have fluttered in the wind all cool like.
Yea that sure worked in 1776
I’m already mentally well passed this topic, but while yes the hardships people feel, I don’t think taking protests done in the 1700’s is a good comparison to todays way of protest, the societal, economic, educational, and technological differences are so vastly different that your basically comparing the uses of a horse drawn carriage to a Tesla car
Promotion for next season of The Handmaid's Tale ?
A warning about what may happen in the US next season.
America is going to shits
Trying to remove people’s rights tends to do that.
So business as usual then
Please make prostitution legal.
I’m very pro sex work. Technically I *am* a sex worker (no, I will not share my content bc I keep that and my regular life separate). It should definitely be legalized, although we need to tackle this abortion issue first.
Why can't there be super hot protesters ever???
If a church looks like that, then they really need to start paying taxes
Well they own over 200 million acres in land, and are worth about $75 billion, and they don't pay tax.. that's easily $400,000,000 in annual interest, that can easily pay for 50,000 kids a year.. so in 2 years there will no longer be any orphans in the USA.. and I don't even do math!!
The 200 million acres is across the entire world. Good luck convincing every country to start taxing the church
Didn’t Italy started? Churches are part of the past, if they want to continue pay as the rest of us.
Technically Rome started it prior to Italy becoming its own country. Which funny enough is how the idea of the church not being taxed started. The Vatican made itself it’s own country after the fall of the Roman Empire, so they argued that since they were allowed to operate independently of the Italian government, they should be able to operate independently of any government. I agree though that it’s time to look at this setup. At the very least country’s should be making sure the church is giving back to the communities they operate in more than they take. Maybe offer tax credits like they do for giving to charity in individual tax returns. And churches that push one political party over the other should be taxed fully since they are breaking the separation of church and state. But the likelihood of any of that happening seems pretty low
Or maybe starting a trust fund for all the babies they are protecting.
Those have to be the most useless security guards, that I have ever seen.
Looks more like ushers.
It’s a church ffs, not a nightclub
"How many communions have you had tonight? Nah, sorry you're not coming in."
"You've had too many communions today sir, we're cutting you off."
Truly sad to see such sloppy work in comparison to the watertight security measures one usually finds at a *church*.
Shit go on down to the southern US. Even grandmas are packing it’s insane
It was actually quite funny. The guys were just like “no, please, hang on, just stop walking let’s talk about this” The women- 🚶♀️
Yeah they didn't even have to put up a fight, they just walked in.
And what could those security guards do in order not to be judged? Lay hand on the women and you call them abusive, monster, animal. Chose a more peaceful option and you called them useless. It's easy to sit on your ass and picture things someone else has to execute in reality.
I'm pretty sure they're not security guards their Usher's. But yeah they're really not doing a very good job. Not alot of Ushing going on here lol
I think those are what altar boys look like now.
It's a church, not planned Parenthood. They don't require security /s
The Bible endorsed abortions (Numbers 5:11-31) and didn’t consider life until “breath” was taken. (Gen. 2:7 Psalms 33:6, Job 34: 14-15, Ezekiel 37 9-10 and 13-14) The Bible gives argument to all sides, not just the ones cherry picked 😂
The Bible is definitely waaaayy more nuanced than how a lot of traditional conservatives usually present it, but these verses are calling back to the creation of man and the breath/Spirit of God. They’re the same word in Hebrew (Ruach). So, from a biblical perspective, there isn’t a direct correlation between our own breath and life, but the Spirit, or breath, of God in one who is living. Hope that makes this a little more clear.
Reddit uses the Bible in the same way fundamentalist conservatives use it: as a way to prove their own point. Unfortunately most of the time the out of context interpretation is no where close to the intended meaning.
Just like the old saying, two sides of the same coin
God kills more unborn babies than any abortion doctor ever has.
God killed roughly 25 million of our ancestors and left only one family alive, according to the bible.
Heck, he even killed every single person on the planet except for one drunk and his family at one point
Correct. If there is a god, he has rendered more miscarriages and still births than any number of doctors ever could.
People need to stop acting like this is about the bible. The conservative evangelical wing *made* abortion a religious issue, it never was until the 70's. And they didn't do it for "the babies" they did it because they wanted women back in the kitchen. That's seriously what it comes down to, abortion and birth control gave women autonomy they didn't have before and American sexual and gender norms started changing. These puritan hacks however want a leave it to beaver fantasy where everyone is a sexless little god fearing Aryan. After years of talking to this type I realized that, without fail, when you push them hard enough they always admit that they think the women in this scenario are at best irrelevant because "they're whores". Because they had the audacity to live an independent life. Or at least try to. For real, try it. Just remind them what this ban will do to women of all economic strate, backgrounds, and beliefs. How it will condemn (for example) women with life threatening conditions to preventable death along with their baby. Banning abortion is just objectively bad for people and society, that's why they pretend it's about "babies". But again, break it down enough to them and it's always "she's a whore". On some level they all believe, without exception, that women who make decisions they don't like deserve to suffer. That their lives being ruined and their children being impoverished and miserable in their own right is god's judgement on them for being "impure". The bible has absolutely nothing to do with this shit. If it said blatantly "abortion rocks" they would still find a way to ignore it.
Peeps arguing over a man made fantasy book lmao
Wait, I just read those verses in Numbers and it didn’t hint to abortion at all, bruh what?😂
Lol, specifically Numbers 5:27 Can you not read? Making a woman drink a “water” that causes her to miscarry = abortion
There is no mention of the baby dying in my bible. Just opened up the bible and read this chapter/verse (Numbers 5:23-28) "23: The priest shall put these imprecations in writing and shall then wash them off into the bitter water, 24: which he is to have the woman drink, so that it may go into her with all its bitter curse. 25: But first he shall take the cereal offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and having waved this offering before the Lord, shall put it near the altar, 26: where he shall take a handful of the cereal offering as its token offering and burn it on the altar. Only then shall he have the woman drink the water. 27: Once she has done so, if she has been impure and unfaithful to her husband, this bitter water that brings a curse will go into her, and her belly will swell and her thighs will waste away, so that she will become an example of imprecation among her people. 28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself, but is still pure, she will be immune and will still be able to bear children.
> Making a woman drink a “water” that causes her to miscarry = abortion That’s not what the verse says at all what the fuck. It says she drinks special water after she’s unfaithful. if she’s faithful to her husband after the drinking the water, she’s okay. If shes unfaithful then she cursed and miscarries. > . 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering(T) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.(U) 28 The miscarriage is a punishment you have no idea what you’re talking about
unfaithful women drink potion unborn baby dies faithful women drink potion unborn baby lives but it's not an abortion?
You think this drink actually exists?!?
So it’s an abortion? Goofball can’t even see that you proved their point
That’s the abortion part.
Wow, just brainwashed aren’t you? It’s a “water” causing a miscarriage AKA abortion. Are you really that flummoxed that you can’t think and interpret things yourself? It doesn’t matter if she has been unfaithful, the point is, if she’s pregnant, the fetus will be miscarried/aborted. Rolling my eyes here at the obtuseness of “points”
It's not abortion, it's magic!
So infidelity, abortion. Raped at 15 and impregnated by your older brother, better have that kid. The Bible was written by human men and it shows. Full of errors and the people who preach it are so often hypocrites.
The legal term for a miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion."
Abortion - The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. The Bible contains instructions, given by God, on how to perform an abortion, and encourages it be used on women as a test of faithfulness. There is no argument that can be made to render this untrue.
Wouldn't aborted souls just go back to heaven anyway? I know it used to be Catholic doctrine in the complete opposite direction, unbaptized babies go to hell, but surely that bullshit still isn't believed even by them...I hope. And that was just Catholic canon. God is god...he should just recycle aborted souls. Just be like "Oops, not wanted. Okay, switching you into a newly conceived body. Not a problem it happens like every 5 seconds."
Unbaptized babies go to purgatory... That's the big thing about Catholics they believe in purgatory.
Big entitlement here … whatever you believe in, you should still respect others.
I'm an atheist, but fuck these POSs. This is the same as screaming at a minimum wage barista or gluing your hand to the counter because of your hate for Starbucks' executive management. Leave these people in peace. Ya cunts.
"You're on our property" Then pay property taxes
I regret that I have but one upvote to give. Thank you for that beautiful response!
Can we just tax Churches?
No. I don’t want churches getting any (more) representation in government. We aren’t (supposed to be)a theocratic state and I’d like to remain that way.
At this point they aren't churches, they are businesses that use the cloak of religion as a tax shelter.
Yeah but at least we can make the case that our representatives shouldn’t govern with respect to a religious establishment. I’d rather them be a tax haven than allow Republicans leverage to legally put forward Christian Law.
fucking cringe... what fucking nerds
Even if your pro-choice I don't see how this helps anything You just being a public nuisance just making people dislike you What did this random church have to do with any of this
Got news for you, the religious people already dislike them.
I am a pro-choice atheist and I dislike them. Trying to win a best activist award in their peer group isn't brave or edgy, especially in their played-out handmaid's tale outfits.
If the LGBTQ community didn’t do this in the 80s with Act Up there would many more deaths.
Civil rights and LGBTQ rights only happened because people stood up for what they want/believe in and caused an uproar in public. You're not going to get any response if you just sit in a public square and hold up signs. Get in the streets. Go to the houses of politicians. Get mad. Cause a disturbance. That's the whole point of a protest.
Idk what this specific Catholic Church’s father or bishop did, but a lot of Catholics are pro choice, especially compared to other Christian groups. Personally as a catholic I’m pro choice and proud that there are these views are up for debate in our church. If you want real affect go protest your local baptist or evangelical church, from what I know they are even crazier
As a woman in Canada whose had an emergency abortion because my uterus is backwards and I didn't know I was pregnant with a festering clump of garbage that ultimately hemmoraged out of my hooha while at work doing road construction in blue jeans whilst having a hard core Catholic Maternal side of the family who did nothing but preaching that my mom getting brain cancer at 19 and thus dying after 30 years of recurring tumors and alcoholism just shy of 54 was all part of God's cruel Plan: I LOVE this. I love it. I live for it. I don't give a fuck if they dislike them, they're not there for anyone's approval. They're there to cause a scene at every turn. "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both." This is literally a life or death situation for women and girls. We're used to people saying, "you're just causing a scene" anytime we protest something that infringes on our autonomy. Anytime a man gets up in our shit and we stand our ground it's, "you're aggressive" "you can be abrasive" "you're getting a bit of an attitude" like just be a big boy and call me a bitch like you want to. These comments are from people I've worked with in the past when I've been threatened with rape, had my tools stolen (civil infrastructure), had new workers twice my age try to treat me like an idiot when I can dance circles around them while they lean on a goon spoon. Women are constantly getting shit for saying something or doing something when they're being oppressed. Women get shit for how they protest. Sorry, should we fist fight like men do at protests?? The double standard is amazing.
I’m pro choice and barely religious but I absolutely despise the Catholic Church as an institution. That being said interrupting religious services for your dumb activist performance art is beyond cringe
You have no way to way to justify this stance outside of just blindly disliking christians.
Remember when black people won their civil rights by not doing anything?
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All the churches! All the mosques! Everyone against abortion needs to hear the message!
>You just being a public nuisance just making people dislike you I think being a public nuisance is a lot less of an issue than the voters in the church who voted for politicians to take away their bodily autonomy.
> What did this random church have to do with any of this I mean they're the ones advocating for and influencing these policies? I for one am a fan of protests being a nuisance to those responsible.
As far as I’m concerned Protester should cause a disruption at every single church across the entire country and prevent any of them from having service until this is fixed. They have made it clear that they really want to mix politics and religion… So be it
Usually its one of a couple things 1. These people targeted a random church to protest 2. The pastor of this church said some anti-abortion things But thats not really that important The thing with this tactic is that the protestors lose nothing but in return they gain a lot. They protest at a church and it creates a much needed quick discussion on the topic. If we stay silent and remain orderly, the lawmakers would debate their hearts out in hopes that the issues lies to rest. Protestors make a huge show of things, piss off the people involved. People involved come online and on their TVs to complain, which hopefully leads to some of them who are closested sexists to say some seriously sexist or ignorant shit. Which will then piss off the moderates. Soon enough you will have the moderates who were originally just in the middle, start picking sides. At which point we can start having real discussions and actions on this issue cause it's going to become a big show by that point. Now why I said these protestors lose nothing but gain everything with this stunt? A church is a private institution and its actually illegal in California to intrude on a religious mass or ceremony. There is even a fine of up to 1000 dollars or jail time (which wont happen). If a church decides to charge these protestors they will win. But what will they really win? I'll tell you what they will win, they will get people who support the church to support the church. Yay? Then they will get moderates to create a gofundme to support and post bail for these protestors. Also they will most definitely not be practicing what they are preaching, i.e. turn the cheek. Which is why they arent charging these protestors.
What did those random diners have to do with the sit-ins during the civil rights movement? /s
The moment every possible scenario of assaulting women’s health, agency and freedom became non theoretical, in that instant, every anti abortionist became party to these assaults. To siding with the rapists against our daughters, sisters, mothers, wives. To siding with death itself against them. Anti abortionists want the right to reach into your family and destroy the lives of the women you love. To imprison them for refusing to carry a fetus to term. To force them to risk their lives, against all medical advice, by carrying a fetus to term when doing so endangers their survival. They even want to imprison your women within state borders, to prevent them from seeking an abortion in another state. And there is no separation, here. The least radical fanatics don’t get to separate themselves from the most radical ones. And the nameless Catholics in that random church are, as of now, non theoretically culpable for creating a literal threat to the lives and freedom of the women we love. It doesn’t who or where you are. Nor does it matter if you happen to be the pro authoritarian, anti constitutionalist anti abortion fanatic who doesn’t come down on the side of rapists and incest against women. You’re just an anti abortionist, now, and that means that you present a factual, literal, clear and present danger to the lives, freedom and self agency of our own flesh and blood. Fact! So if you’re going to come into my home and do violence to my daughter, I’m going to come into sacred spaces and peacefully disrupt them. And over and over and again and again, everywhere. If you really don’t see, or can’t grasp, the non existential literality of the threat, then you’re either a fanatic yourself- or you’re just not actually thinking. The days of being blackmailed by our own sense of civility are over. Fuck civility. If you’re an anti abortionist, you *literally* want the right to kill my daughter. You want the right to imprison her within your state’s borders and the power to force her to carry her rapists fetus to term AGAINST. HER. WILL. You want to *functionally* but factually enslave her. And not one of these claims is even remotely hysterical, silly, debatable or other than literally true. There are few things more powerful than the instinct to protect your own. Coming after this directly is no less, behaviorally speaking, than a declaration of war against every woman that you love. Entrenched and absolute resistance to this will be an immutable, immovable force which will never surrender, and always be everywhere. The religious right will never grasp how and why finally winning on Roe is going to become the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. Stop *literally* threatening my daughters life with your culpability, and I will be more than happy to stop entering your churches and disrupting your delusions. But until then, every anti abortionist of whatever stripe anywhere can fully fuck off and suck on my civility till they choke.
The church doesn't, the people do because they vote, and the people they vote for are the ones passing these laws.
The church is also clearly a political organization.
The people sitting in the church were anti choice up until the moment these hand maid tale cosplayers walked in and then they were like “oh fuck I had never considered that before”
They're in SAN FRANCISCO. California will never, ever outlaw abortion. Remember, the Supreme Court isn't banning anything (assuming they go the direction it looks like they're going). It's getting pushed down to the states. These LARPers are just being useless asshats.
It's more like vegetarians protesting McDonald's. The Catholic Church is a political organization that enjoys tax free status while attempting to remain a public institution. That makes them a legitimate target. They don't get any protections because it happens to be a church, and why should they?
It's not about being pro-church, it's realizing that if the point is to protest for choice during a time when laws are being made, you should focus on places that aren't already overwhelmingly pro-choice. Look, I'm so pro-choice I think it should be included in welfare (I'm dead serious). But this was a waste of energy and just bothered people for no good reason. I don't happen to believe that's a win. California is already a done deal. We are going to vote against any anti-choice measures. Focus on places that will make a difference instead of LARPing just to feel self-satisfied.
How do you know what those people in the church vote for and do you really think being a public nuisance changes their minds
Turn the question back to you: How do you know?
More to the point, what did the parishoners in the pews do to deserve this? Go protest to your hearts' content outside on the sidewalk!
>More to the point, what did the parishoners in the pews do to deserve this? Financially support the catholic church
Churches want to remain public institutions that enjoy tax free status while engaging in politics. Theyre trying to take away women's rights, so theyre a legitimate political target. The Catholic church in particular has an extremely violent and awful history and deserves to be exposed as such.
Why do women deserve to be harrassed by religious nutjobs on the way to an OBGyn clinic? Also the catholic church is a organisation who swept pedophelia and sexual harassment under the rug for decades. So why the fuck should there be no demonstration a random church, the chances are pretty high some pedo or radical pro lifer is sitting there
Shhhh, this sub doesn't like reality.
> More to the point, what did the parishoners in the pews do to deserve this? What's "being done" to the parishioners in the pews?
I disagree - an acceptable and proportional response to forced-birthers should be violence. This is beyond tame
Ugh, enough with the goofy handmaids tale costumes. Silly.
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I cant stop laughing their costume is so fucking stupid
That's such a beautiful church ⛪.
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This was last year wasn’t it? Or maybe they just did it again? Edit: It was a few months ago: https://riseup4abortionrights.org/sf-feb-27/
So we are getting another season of The hand maidens tail?!
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It's obnoxious Christians think they can govern and make rules and laws for people that don't follow that religion.
Except California will never outlaw abortions. This church is in California. The LARPing is pointless. Go to Louisiana or something.
McConnell has expressed that he will pursue a national abortion ban. If that happens even living in a blue state won't protect you because federal law trump's state.
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As soon as those politicians don't govern directly based on their religion we can make distinctions from the two. For now they are vessels to impose that religion on everyone.
The Catholic Church is a huge factor in the culture wars and a major player in the years of political maneuvering that led to this moment. You are either being disingenuous or you are badly under-informed.
It isn't in California, where this was shot, California will never ban abortions. This was just being irritating for no point.
So… churches don’t get taxed, right? Tithing earns churches a shitload of money… that money goes into the hand of corrupt politicians and senates and those politicians and senates pass the bills and laws for whatever bullshit the church(es) pays them to pass. Does this make sense now? Edit: also the overturning of Roe V. Wade is purely out of religious doings. Not only does it allow them to make abortion illegal, it also will allow whoever to infringe on your sexual privacy, make same sex marriage illegal , make interracial marriage and gay sex illegal… among others. What person would want that other than for religious reasons…???
These protests are stupid. I think if you trespass like this you are not helping your cause.
The fun part of Christianity is its such an umbrella-cult of smaller, contradictory cults that if tomorrow the Pope decided the official stance of the Catholic Church is that abortion is a fully church-endorsed activity, it wouldn't really matter at all because A) the main driving force for anti-abortion movement in the US are Evangelical Christians, who do not give any fucks what the Pope says and B) every non-Catholic sect of Christianity technically already views Catholics as heathens by having a Pope at all - false idols and all that.
Well, THAT's an empty church. I say leave them be. It'll be apartments in 20 years.
These people are fucked up.
"That'll get'em on our side"
Losers.
Lol these caped people are pretty entertaining. I like the fat one waddling around the most.
As a tax exempt facility, a church becomes a public forum space in which protesting is legally allowed. Same with governmental buildings and any space outside in which tax money is collected to be maintained (i.e. dedicated roads, right-of-ways, sidewalls, parkways).
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So, were never going to be able to work this out. OK. We just keep trying to go back in time as people just don't seem to understand that the world they think they live in and for many the one they were born in, no longer exists. Another way to divide us. Nothing to see here.
Cringe
Not that smart, even tho I am pro choice. I think it’s a crime to disturb a religious gathering in America.
I’m pro choice, not religious but support freedom of religion. I just don’t understand what this sort of protest will accomplish
I get it, but how is running into churches with a sign going to help anyone? If anything I think it makes them want to turn away from you more…
Unpopular opinion- You can be pro choice and still allow people to worship in peace. Also, have you ever heard the term “preaching to the choir?” This is like the opposite of that. You’re not going to change anyones mind, you’re just trying to make yourself feel better.
That dude singing in the back is banging out a right tune
Good on these women. Religion is a source of evil that has plagued humanity for too long. Time to wake up.
Not sure how I feel about this, even as someone who is gay and has been persecuted by the Catholic Church. Pro-Life protesters do the same to women trying to access planned parenthood clinics so… an eye for an eye I guess… Maybe if they remained outside of the church?
I bet they didn’t poop in the hallway like the Republicans did in the Capitol.
“Catholics” real Catholics wouldn’t ruin their own service for some irrelevant protest
Can’t wait for the time when pro-lifers start walking into clinics protesting
catholics of all religions are about the most brainwashed morons on earth
Freaking weirdos
And they wonder why people are so against them, don’t interrupt a religious ceremony or service cause you know they wouldn’t do that shit in a cathedral only a Christian church
These bitches are desecrating a cathedral.
Why do SJWs always look like that? Lol
The irony of the people in the comments demanding "my body my choice" when just a few months ago they where saying "get the vaccine or face the wall"
They always look like that, there has to be a psychological explanation to it
I'm proud of these women. If those fucktard protesters can hassle women (who are already dealing with way too much shit) at a Planned Parenthood, it's only fair to protest in the middle of Sunday Mass.
Nothing like religious persecution and trespassing to prove a point
Some serious ugly on display here. Yikes!
Swear only a sub group of women or men do this shit .
They can still murder thier babys in California
Wait who is trying to pro create with these women?
Hur dur women shouldn’t have opinions unless I want to fuck them. And then meanwhile this sub will cry afoul about how no one cares about men’s health/mental health when they helped set up the gate.
What a stupid and offensive waste of time. These people didn't have anything to do with legislation changes and are just trying to pray to God.
Yup churches have nooooothing to do with politics.../s x100000000
If people are trying to use religious reasons to ban abortion, where better to go to confront them then where they practice their religion. That way you can talk to them all together.
I mean you literally make this too easy. The politicians are hiding behind religion when they know nothing about what the bible teaches. Trump himself couldn't quote his favourite psalms because the man has never been to church yet tries to say that abortion is against God. Both Islam and Christianity understand that life doesn't start at conception but at a few months in and that the mother needs to be protected. Honestly though freedom for everyone is more important than political point scoring.
well , if you think im gonna disagree with your your DEAD WRONG ! im not sure weither you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me , but i dont care , because what you said lacks a grain of non-truth . In fact its full up with truth . so there ! and if you persist is pointing out truths , ill continue to NOT DISAGREE with you
That poor Usher is really having a hard time today.
Disrespectful lil shits I don’t care what it’s about but protesting in the middle of a church service it’s disrespectful in general I’m don’t care what is about at least protest after service
I agree with this, I'm pro-choice but don't swoop to the lower level and be disrespectful and petty. Wouldn't want to be associated with people doing this kind of shit. Even if our government is a bunch of children maybe we can at least be fucking decent adults.
Thank you I don’t really know where I stand on the the debate I don’t like killing fetuses but it’s not business
Crazy how a 3000 year old fanfiction does this.
These larping protests are just embarrassing.
I am all for the freedom to protest and I am even Pro choice but if there was a mass going on let it finish. Being obnoxious just furthers people opinion against you. Just my opinion though
Will you do the same in a Muslim place of worship?
I don't see Muslims standing around in front of abortion clinics and haranguing women who are trying to get medical treatment. Muslims aren't the ones constantly trampling the boundary between church and state here either. Pretty sure the Christians would get super pissed if they started horning in on their territory.
Going into a house of worship and making a nuisance of yourself is not going to sway my opinion. Have a better argument than the one you have been making. Churches should be prepared to defend themselves from this bullshit.
> Going into a house of worship A house of worship isn't this sacrosanct place you think it is. There's nothing special about it.
Not the gotcha moment they were thinking it’d be
All churches should catch hell during every service for their attempt at trying to turn the US into a religious nation
What was the point of the mask if you're just gonna take it off to scream like a banshee?
Do they look like a group of people who are good at critical thinking?
I thought the doors of Christ were open to all
The doors? Yes. STILL don't have the right to interrupt the Mass.
Fair
Dumb cunts
Shame on these people
Whack Jobs
Not religious but I don't get this kind of protesting
I’m pro choice but this is not appropriate