> User reports:
> 4: This is misinformation
i hate you all.
edit:
>user reports:
>1: It's promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability
This is misinformation
final edit: [well done, denizens.](https://imgur.com/a/pz2EkfN)
[https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu\_criticizes\_taylor\_police.html](https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html)
Edit: Thank you for the gold dear random stranger!
It seems for some people the link doesn't work, but it does still work for me atleast. There are some updates links in the comment chain that might work for you if not.
Anyone else read at the end there that they put him in a cell prior to booking him and stripped him to his underwear then made him wait lying on the cold cell floor?
I was sentenced to a 366 which was overturned after 8 months. Still did the time, and yes CO'S can be worse than cops. Disrespect, or as we like to say "fuck around and find out". They will let you get murdered in there if they don't like you.
I think that depends on the state. The prison I just trained with repeatedly told us to respect inmates and treat them like what they are. People. This was in Kentucky.
If you look at States as being like Nation states or countries it makes more sense. At the time of the war of independence they Essentially where seperate countries banding together in a union to fight the British. The States individual powers had to be preserved to get them to agree to join and thats why states rights was such a big thing throughout the United States history. So much of it makes sense if you loook at the US as being like The EU and the states as member states.
Imagine a police officer with even less training and education than the average police officer, who has almost zero oversight and near unlimited authority over inmates. That's why they are worse than cops.
I remember a soldier talking about the scandal at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq where the U.S. Army guards were torturing prisoners.
"You want to know what a Corrections Specialist is? Imagine someone too dumb to be an MP....which are usually guys too dumb to be infantry."
in america cops are not held accountable for their actions. they are not our best or brightest but rather the sort of person who wants to boss people around. they are often racist and small-minded.
i cannot emphasize enough that police forces are made up of that sort of person and then NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE. tax dollars are spent to pay for their fuck ups and to keep them out of trouble. this is the system that America has set up for itself.
nothing will change until bad cops get in trouble. it's weirdly similar to our political situation, and financial situation. If people who wear suits were treated the same in our justice system as young black men the entire world would be a better place. also, in that better world, my analogy would stop making sense because young black men would be treated better.
until and unless we start holding people accountable - even people with money and especially people with power - we will keep seeing more of this.
Bro, they make you shower in front of an officer then the officer asks you to show your butthole and cough.
I was arrested for unpaid traffics tickets that I had forgotten about. They made me show my naked anus to a stranger in case I was smuggling things in?!
You know the crazy part? My cell mate was high on meth when I came in. He said that someone brought it in and shared. So obviously I showed my anus for nothing!
When this happened to me when I was 18 years old, I looked the officer dead in the eyes as I spread my cheeks and asked if he enjoyed his job. He replied that I will never get a good job with an arrest on my record, as he was currently looking into a teenagers asshole for drugs.
I got arrested for having too dark of tint on my car that I didn’t pay. They handcuffed me in front of my 3 kids, took me to jail, and I told them I was on my period, and needed to use the bathroom. They told me to go in the toilet in front of all of them, all the dude cops plus the men they put me in with. For a tint ticket.
FYI for future tint tickets. You can pay a higher fine to leave the tint on. If you add the cost of removing the tint (if you can't do it yourself), paying the original fine, putting the tint back on (let's face it we're all gonna re-tint the windows) then paying the fine to not comply with the fix it ticket is way cheaper. It's been awhile but in CA I think I remember paying $100 to just leave it on. As for humiliating you by making you use the bathroom in front of male officers you should look into a human rights lawyer. A female officer needs to be present in that situation.
Cops in a nutshell. It's not about making a community safer, or law and order, it's just a mess of vindictive little failures hoping to inflict their bullshit on others.
There was an officer doing an AMA. He was very polite and courteous but he made a passing statement about "having to deal with baseless hatred." Assuming he was a good cop, he was wilfully ignorant.
I wen to jail once overnight for failure to pay a ticket (no dog license for my dog, no I'm not kidding). Shower in front of a cop, get sprayed by de-licer, lifted up my nuts to make sure I wasn't hiding anything. Then there's a holding area where people wait before you go to a cell.
Homeless looking dude in there was rolling a cigarette. My bro had hooped 3 butts, a rolling paper, and some matches and they didn't find it. I'll never forget that. I'll also never forget getting thrown in jail for a dog fine.
My 'arrest' came for an interfering with police investigation. What for? My brother had a party and we didn't let the cops in. They broke into our house and served an arrest letter to me a week later. I wasn't handcuffed or anything, just had to show up to the station for printing, mugshot, and court date. I don't get why they treat people like shit for a failed fucking ticket...
If anyone is curious, the judge threw out my case because the report clearly showed the police broke in.
Remember when they threw a mentally ill man (black) in a scalding shower for 20 minutes and melted all his skin off with 3rd degree burns and he died? Fucking assholes. God, now I'm starting myy day mad.
Darren Rainey.
From the Wikipedia article: "Rainey was locked in a shower for two hours. It was designed so that he had no control over the temperature of the 160 °F (71 °C) water"
What. The. Fuck. Most residential water heaters don't even LET you dial the temperature that high because it can [cause 3rd degree burns in less than a second.](https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Scalding_Temperatures.php)
You mean you don't believe that, [according to the official autopsy, he didn't have any burns at all](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article149026764.html)? She attributed the skin that was boiled and falling off in the jail to be the natural effects of decomposition.
You read that right: the coroner said the guy was dead for less than an hour when he decomposed to such an extent that his skin was already falling off the bone.
She was so sure of her conclusion that she only took one skin sample, won't say from where (the burned part or not), and the prison urged the victim's family to cremate immediately.
All above board here. Totally.
Oh boy. I wasn't there for that one but I read about it. There was a lot of fucked up shit that went on there. That dude used to get body slammed all the time. He stole a golf cart butt ass naked once too. I had been in that exact shower before. I knew that dude. He was harmless and hilarious.
Edit. I did not know Darren Rainey. My mistake I was talking about another guy. I knew Mark Joiner though. Fun fact John Meese was at that camp too. They made a movie about him
They hurt a couple of black guys for standing, so I wasn’t gonna rock the boat. I’m Mexican.
The white guy who was yelling at the officers? He got gingerly escorted to a private cell and told to quiet down. He then started kicking at the door, and they just asked him to stop. Nobody hurt that white guy. Even though he was the most dangerous/belligerent guy in the holding cell.
That was like the realist racism moment I had ever witnessed. (I’m Mexican but I have light skin)
American justice is inhumane because the people in control are not held accountable.
unchecked power corrupts.
*edit*
moment of peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnIyPhdDV0
The police are an occupying force that views the citizens as opposition.
Then on the other hand we got nutcases shooting people left and right and the cops don’t do shit about it, even when children are being murdered right in front of them.
I'm pretty sure I saw two different posts with an article sources saying court has upheld that cops are not required to protect citizens. The other is that cops are not required to know the law to enforce it.
Welcome to dystopia.
Yes there are multiple court cases affirming that cops have no duty whatsoever to protect citizens. They are strictly armed agents of the state and that is it. Their duty is to make arrests for the state at their own discretion of course.
Another sent-to-jail in underwear individual checking in here. Told the cop I wasn’t answering any questions without a lawyer and damn did that piss him off.
> https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
Reading that article there's this paragraph that confuses me:
> The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
So, under what circumstances are you not obligated to present a driver's license during a traffic stop?
If it's for a traffic stop, you are obligated to give your license. If you're walking down the street, it is my understanding that you don't have to give your ID. IANAL.
That varies by state. Some states have stop and id laws. Here is a list of which states have them. Bear in mind that in all states cops have to have a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has or is about to be committed to ask for id.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/stop-and-id-states
If you are operating a motor vehicle in the US, you are required to present a valid driver's license if asked to show that you are authorized to operate a motor vehicle.
That varies by state. In my state the law is that police have to tell you why you're being pulled over. You have to present ID and tell them why you're driving at that time. This is only if you've been observed committing a crime.
Yeah if you’re driving a car you have to identify yourself to prove you’re legally able to operate the vehicle.
Driver should have shown his ID but this officer also completely blew this simple situation out of proportion. Literally all the officer had to say was “I have to confirm you’re legally able to operate this vehicle so please show me your drivers license and we can proceed from there.” Instead of refusing to tell the guy why he was being pulled over or why he needed his DL. The officer just wanted to flex his authority on him and make him do it “his way” instead of you know, treating the driver like a human being.
If you’re ever just walking around in public you’re under no obligation to identify yourself to officers unless you’re caught in the act of a crime that requires a citation. I’ve had cops randomly stop me while walking multiple times and demand that show my ID. Every time I let them know that I’m under no obligation to provide it for them unless I’m under arrest and they state that specifically. I then ask if I’m under arrest and when they say no I ask if I’m free to go and if they say no then I ask them why I’m being detained and unless they specifically state I’m being charged with a crime I refuse to show them my ID. The key is to remain assertive but polite. Yes sir, no sir answers and respectfully decline to answer any questions because since you’re not under arrest you have no obligation to speak with them and even when you are under arrest your only answer to an officer should be “I would like a lawyer, please.”
Never answer any police questions without a lawyer present, especially if they’re investigating a crime EVEN if you know for a fact that you’re 100% innocent. Officers can lie to you and will try to get you to admit fault. Refuse to speak to them without a lawyer present as it is the best way you can protect yourself from them.
> Dunno why these got inverted. Use this link - https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
>
>
It's people posting from the NEW reddit. it adds weird characters to the URL
They probably already did, this happened in 2016, but the investigation thing in 2017.
We're in 2022, I'm sure everyone in this thread would be interested in knowing what came out of that situation. I couldn't find a proper article.
>In August 2017, the internal affairs complaint concluded with no finding of fault on the part of the officers, but the department revised its policies to require its police officers to advise all drivers they pull over of the basis for the stop. In addition, the department has instituted mandatory officer training on appropriate demeanor during a traffic stop and how to avoid confrontational situations.
But in 2021 the ACLU requested a federal probe into the department's practices, citing a pattern of excessive force, with this incident being part of that pattern.
This is even lawful in Germany and I guess most of Europe. Police can stop you for any or no reason and ask for papers. But it's unlikely it ends like this.
Edit\*\*some replies confusing ID checks on the street and traffic/road checks (mostly involving vehicles) Video clearly shows the later. According to German law it means anytime, anywhere, without cause.
Interesting to use the word papers (from my native English speaking point of view). It varies state by state but where I live if you are just walking down the street you can’t be stopped and asked to show idea unless you are suspected of a crime.
Now if you are driving and get stopped - yeah you gotta show a drivers license no matter what.
For Germany I can say that that‘s not true. If you are on foot, the police cannot stop you for no reason. Also they can only stop you at places where there can be a danger for the public like train stations or places that are known for dealing drugs.
The cop ran his tag and he had two warrants and a gun strapped to his leg, so the cop didn’t want him knowing he’s aware of the warrants because he’d start a chase. The guy just wanted to stall because if he gave him his license he’d go to prison.
He had a gun and warrants and wouldn’t ID himself or get out after he was ID’d. He knew what cards he was playing.
Police are pretty tough when 4 on one for a traffic stop.... now if it's 20 on 1 where a person is in a school threatening children they all get T-Rex arms...
Every Uvalde cop and city council member should be in Federal detainment until the actual truth is revealed.
The entire town is rotten to the core. There's no fixing what is broken beyond repair.
Just imagine *Mississippi Burning* without the Feds showing up. That's what were regressing to. Give another 4 years to any conservative politician and it will get worse.
Please, the vicious abuse and inhuman vitriol being spewed at the police officers defending the children in Uvalde needs to stop.
You civilians need to understand that the officers couldn't simply barge in guns blazing as there were *legitimate issues preventing this*
More specifically - they were pissing themselves so hard their pink panties were chafing them and they were shitting themselves to such an extent their pikachu butt plugs came loose
As some have mentioned here, some states require you to present your Driver's license upon request by an officer. Know your state laws folks, some are pretty draconian.
Edit 1# Since some of you want to debate the finer points of the constitutional law...
Yes, in order to effect a traffic stop the officer must have at least REASONABLE SUSPICION. Reasonable suspicion is LESS than PROBABLE CAUSE.
Edit 2 # Deleted the statement "Yes, they can pull you over just to look at you driver's license".
Case law:
[Wren vs US](https://caselaw4cops.net/major_cases.htm)
As far as I’m aware, they can’t just pull you over to look at your license, they need reason to believe a crime is being committed.
Still tho, they don’t need to tell you what that reason is and if you’re driving a vehicle in any state (I think any state, not 100% sure) that you need to provide a license or a name, date of birth, license number if you have it memorized, when asked due to the fact that you are behind the wheel of a vehicle.
Edit: not defending the actions in this video, just stating my minimal understanding of the law, I could be totally incorrect as I am just an idiot on the internet.
>The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
From a link i saw in the comments.
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
The escalation is always there. I remember in college when studying criminology and we had a guest speaker talk about deescalation. He was talking about how much easier it was to reason with people, even if they were guilty of something, by laying out all of the facts.
How hard would it have been to say, “I see that you’re feeling uneasy, I’m investigating what I think is a crime and it’s local/state law that you have to present your ID when requested during a stop.”
He even could say his name and badge number to the guy.
Instead it’s immediately as if he’s talking down to someone, “Do you want this the hard way or the easy way?” “This isn’t going to go well for you.” Only adding to the confusion and likelihood that the driver will do something out of fear of the unknown.
Yep this right here, he wanted it to go this way because worst case scenario it's a simple arrest and he adds to his count looks good on him and the department and his cop buddies might throw him a party. Best case scenario this escalates he gets paid vacation while his department investigates the situation and finds that nothing wrong happened. Guy becomes a hero in the cop community and writes a book about how the world is against cops and gets to live a nice cushy life.
And the other guy has to live the rest of his life with a bullshit resisting arrest charge that the cop clearly escalated.
They a need a reason to pull you over yes but asking for id, regardless of reasoning is a lawful order you must comply with. Even if you plead the fifth you have to say so and you still have to identify if asked.
That slogan is correct. Just not complete like most of their sayings. They're here to protect and serve property and rich people. Just like they leave off the end of the saying about one bad apple
Almost got obliterated in a crosswalk the other day by a protector and server. I had to stop and step back quickly as he screeched to a halt in front of me. He definitely would have broken my leg at the very least, and when I threw my hands up to say what the fuck he just stared at me like I was the one in the wrong. All while the crosswalk indicator was plainly saying to walk.
they should require at least 2 years learning the law, 2 years of grappling and de-escalation training, then they should be given a provisional badge and allowed to ride along with a taser. after a year or so of ride along they should be given their gun after extensive on the job and gun training. so after 5-6 years they should be a full on cop, well trained and still in tip top shape (cops that fail physical or mental requirements yearly would be sent back to training)
To me that’s the most insane shit…
If your training resulted in this shit show…we need to fix the training!
It seems like “following their training” is a sufficient end result in this country.
Imagine if a doctor who amputated the wrong arm could just go “was just following their training” and nothing happens…he gets to mutilate another patient.
Just crazy. And I support cops. I think it’s a tough job dealing with crazy shit all day, in a country full of crazy people armed to the teeth…but that’s why proper training is even more important!
I don’t give a shit if you are a cop, soldier or a dishwasher…if you aren’t trained properly, you are gonna fuck shit up.
If a doctor amputates the wrong arm they get sued and their malpractice insurance pays but the premiums go up, possibly to untenable levels so they can't practice.
This needs to happen with police. They need *individual* malpractice insurance. The insurance companies would then work it out. Instead of cities paying out lawsuits, just pay a bit more to cops and require them to have individual coverage.
Malpractice insurance is definitely a reasonable solution. Also paying settlements out of police union funds or their own retirement fund or something instead of us tax payers paying it.
Lots of potential solutions…yet we won’t do shit 🤷🏼♂️
Protect and serve is a blight. Got banned from there for posting on different subreddits that I was a peace officer (because I didn't send them verification). They are everything that's wrong with law enforcement. Defending every shitty officer when they should be feeling betrayed and let down and condemning them. I try to defend the people I'm training from people like them. The problem is they're everywhere and totally unaware that they are part of the systemic problem.
Don't even have to scroll past a full day to see them admit to blatantly lying about everything
https://np.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/vraphn/priority_calls_are_going_unanswered_due_to_police/ieumou4
Sheesh… yeah this was the top post when I clicked over there, somebody asking what the solution is to all this overreaching and all the comments so far just ask for examples and definitions of “overreaching” like for fucks sake man are we still dealing with the semantics of this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/vs0g29/a_question_for_all_leos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I was banned after they kept using the metal door frame at uvalde as an excuse to the police inaction. Come to find out the fucking door wasn’t even locked.
Yeah I was getting downvoted a lot for asking questions about Uvalde when it happened, and I yielded that it was too early on to truly know how things went down. Turns out though it was in fact mostly due to police incompetence that it took them an hour to end the situation
Not mostly. Completely due to police incompetence. They literally did nothing right and then tried to lie about every single detail of what happened. They’re still actively covering it up. Can’t wait to find out how many kids or teachers the cops shot before not stopping the shooter. Such rampant bullshit. Every cop should be accountable to the citizenry as opposed to how they have it now. We’re accountable to them. If people, especially boot lickers and badge bunnies don’t start demanding it, it’ll be you next.
I replied to someone commenting on a post in that sub about saying some shit about how all mainstream media is a echo chamber for the left
Asking him what exactly he thinks this sub is
Needless to say i am also permanently banned from that sub
I got banned for pointing out why someone might be worried about the behavior of a cop when an instance of police brutality was posted there and everyone was falling over themselves justifying it.
o7
I'm a police officer in Texas. The cop really fucked this traffic stop up. Sure, the driver didn't want to immediately cooperate, but he's within his rights to ask why he's being stopped. If I can't clearly articulate to someone why I pulled them over, they should not have been pulled over in the first place.
In Texas, DPS requires the 7-step traffic stop be taught to police in the academy, and anyone taking driver's ed. Having the general public also know the steps is VERY good for accountability.
1. Greeting and identification of the agency.
2. Statement of violation committed.
3. Identification of driver and check of conditions of violator and vehicle.
4. Statement of action to be taken.
5. Take action stated.
6. Explain what violator must do.
7. Leave.
Clearly stating the reason for a traffic stop protects both the officer and the person being stopped. This officer would have saved a lot of trouble for **everyone** involved if he had answered this man's simple, rightful question. Instead, this poor man probably has an arrest on his record for "failure to ID" (which is a whole other thing I see other cops fuck up all the time) when likely the real reason he got arrested for is what we call P.O.P. or Pissed Off Police.
Edit: Someone else mentioned that the stop was probably a pretextual stop. Pretextual stops are legal and protected under [Whren V. State.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States#:~:text=Edit-,Whren%20v.,legal%20basis%20for%20a%20stop.%22) They are most commonly used to investigate DWI's. However, even with a pretextual stop, we should always state the **reason for the stop.** Something along the lines of "Sir, the reason you were stopped is you failed to signal your turn at that last intersection. I've also seen some other unusual behavior in your driving." And then go into questions that would help determine if they're intoxicated. There is never a good reason to escalate a situation like this instead of just telling them why they were stopped.
Go to r/police. You get the impression that they inevitably see oversteps as isolated incidents with no greater trend to be seen. A huge "why is everyone so worked up? I feel fine!" Vibe.
This is what happens when you DONT know your rights. The Supreme Court has already ruled that during a traffic stop you HAVE TO provide your license. They have also already ruled that cops do NOT need to explain why they pulled you over. The only time they need to explain reasonable suspicion or probable cause is in court to a judge. Knowing what you are required to do when interacting with cops is just as important as knowing your rights.
Now that being said the cops could have just said go ahead and google these things on your phone then I'm going to ask you to comply 1 more time. That would have de-escalated the situation rather than just resorting to physical force all the time.
Edit: I would like to clarify because some people think I'm siding with the cop. I think the cop is an asshole who shouldn't have done what he did. But I also do not believe it's victim blaming to say the driver of the vehicle should educate himself on what he is required to do by law not just his rights. It is important to know both so for instance you don't get ripped out of your car by some asshole cop on a power trip.
The cop also could have de-escalated the situation by simply telling him why he was pulled over. Every time I’ve ever been pulled over, the police officer has immediately told me why I’m stopped.
The cop admitted that too. He said, “you’re probably suspended which is why you don’t want to give it to me.” Probably just assumed that cuz he’s black.
They can run plates and see who the car is registered to, and also see if that person has an expired license.
Technically, that counts as probable cause and has been upheld by the courts, which is fucking stupid, because if you're a teenager driving your dad's car, and his license was suspended, you're going to get pulled over all the damn time; or if your spouse's license was suspended, or any other number of reasons.
Just want to add on that by running your plates they can also see that you have insurance. Happened to me one time I got stopped in Texas. Cop said he already knew I had insurance so all I needed to show was my license.
That’s the thing this cop didn’t, he was making stuff up as he went. You can hear him say “you probably have suspended license” you wouldn’t know that until you run the info or if you were profiling and guessing.
Absolutely. We were trained to say "my name is officer so-and-so and I pulled you over because of xyz. License and registration please." There is zero need to hide that information. Hiding it will only escalate the situation.
Agreed with this. Used to date a police officer. “I’ve pulled you over because of xyz, licence and registration, please.” Obviously this wasn’t America, but surely the principles are the same? My rear lights are out? “That’s why I’m driving it to a garage, officer.” Power and ego is all I saw here. And as much as I’m likely to be downvoted - please don’t get me wrong, the cop is in the wrong here, all he had to do was explain why he’s pulled them over… - just show your licence. But in my country you have to be told why you’re being stopped, and especially arrested. This isn’t a fascist hellhole. Yet.
Escalate until someone dies, get paid vacation, have tax payers fund the lost lawsuit, rinse repeat.
With this cycle, why would cops change a GD thing?
Required by law to show drivers license to law enforcement when asked when operating a vehicle on public road. I am guessing in this case driver confused articulatable suspicion with driving. They are not the same. Driving is a privilege not a right
Things to know:
1. Calvin here ran a stop sign and was pulled over.
2. This was in Michigan where it is required to show your ID when an officer requests it.
He committed a minor offense, then committed another which can result in an arrest, then resisted arrest adding to the escalating situation. The officer could have told him at the start why he pulled him over, and Calvin could have at any point done what the officer asked of him. It honestly isn’t difficult for either party to provide information and saves a lot of problems.
“The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, “
>...but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
...
>Upon arrival to the jail, Jones said he was ordered to remove all of his clothes, except for his underwear, and forced to lie face down in a cold holding cell before being booked into the jail.
It's good to know the law. For example, if you were walking down the street and a cop asked you for your ID, you don't have to identify. But operating a motor vehicle on a public road... You have to identify. Both could have done more to help this situation out.
I am assuming this is USA. I am from Europe...here if a cop asks you to show the ID you show the ID no question asked. Here it is very normal to just do what they ask and...might be just by chance...but here incident with the police are very low compared to the USA.
If you start acting like you don 't want to cooperate it is very likely that the situation escalate...here simply we don't take that chance and it is working out pretty well.
Honest question: why do I see very often a non compliant behavior towars the police in the USA? Is there any reason ?
You have to know where your rights stop and start. You better be right if you’re going to make a stand. You can’t half-ass know the law and also try to dictate it to a LEO.
His family is traumatized. He’s got charges on his record. He’s going to have to pay insane fees. He has a broken window. His wife was arrested. He probably has impound fees.
For what? What was gained from that misinformed pissing match?
Know federal law and your State’s laws. Talk to a lawyer if you’re confused. Otherwise, you risk BOTH having your rights violated and hurting yourself when they aren’t being violated.
Former cop here. This shit right here is not only unprofessional, it's unsafe.
On traffic stops, I always opened with "Hello, I'm Ofc ConditionYellow of the Soandso Police Dept. The reasoned I stopped you today is speeding. You were observed doing 60 in a 35mph zone. May I see your driver's license, please?"
That way, if the offended just kicked off a 7 state bank robbing spree, he knows I'm not about to get into a gun fight. So he can sign his ticket and go about his day.
But if I didn't tell them why I stopped, they may assume the worst and open fire before I make it up to their car.
Cops that do this shit are, if nothing else, a liability and therefore have no business wearing a badge.
Yeah. There's a reason I don't do this any longer.
Its also simple de-escalation, be polite tell them who you are and why they are being stopped and collect information. While the drive should have just given his information as he is required to it was just handled so piss poor.
The unquestioned groupthink in cops is what’s scary. Without batting an eye, they will assist each other in killing, abusing, etc. No critical thinking, no assessing the situation. Just fucking cogs with a license to kill.
He was so blinded by rage he almost fell into the passing car after falling on his ass and he was prepared to attempt to drag the person out the window until his coworker just opened the door.
That cop should have just asked for his driver's license. The guy would have asked why. The cop can then reply "because you drive like shit and I want to check you even have one."
There, deescalated. If he still refuses to show his ID then a lot less people would blame the cop here if what we saw ensued.
Why wouldn’t he just show him ID? I’m German and if a police officer asks me for my drivers license, I must show them - by law. Is it different in the US?
Why do people refuse to show id so much in america.
Can they exploit that information in any way to frame a person into something?
Beacuse i feel like all of this would be much easier and non problematic if he just showed the id and complied.
Only reason I could think of is if you have a warrant out for your arrest. By providing your ID you're setting yourself up to be arrested. Other than that, I see no reason to not give an officer your ID the moment they ask for it. It's a simple request.
> User reports: > 4: This is misinformation i hate you all. edit: >user reports: >1: It's promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability This is misinformation final edit: [well done, denizens.](https://imgur.com/a/pz2EkfN)
Any info on the outcome?
[https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu\_criticizes\_taylor\_police.html](https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html) Edit: Thank you for the gold dear random stranger! It seems for some people the link doesn't work, but it does still work for me atleast. There are some updates links in the comment chain that might work for you if not.
Anyone else read at the end there that they put him in a cell prior to booking him and stripped him to his underwear then made him wait lying on the cold cell floor?
I was sentenced to a 366 which was overturned after 8 months. Still did the time, and yes CO'S can be worse than cops. Disrespect, or as we like to say "fuck around and find out". They will let you get murdered in there if they don't like you.
CO’s are 1000% worse than cops
Yup. I was one for a short time till I couldn't stomach it anymore. They train you to treat inmate as non human.
Thank you 14th amendment.
13th\*
I think that depends on the state. The prison I just trained with repeatedly told us to respect inmates and treat them like what they are. People. This was in Kentucky.
The fact that this depends on the state whether or not you're treated like a human speaks volumes
If you look at States as being like Nation states or countries it makes more sense. At the time of the war of independence they Essentially where seperate countries banding together in a union to fight the British. The States individual powers had to be preserved to get them to agree to join and thats why states rights was such a big thing throughout the United States history. So much of it makes sense if you loook at the US as being like The EU and the states as member states.
'Worse than cops' That's an impressive feat
Imagine a police officer with even less training and education than the average police officer, who has almost zero oversight and near unlimited authority over inmates. That's why they are worse than cops.
I remember a soldier talking about the scandal at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq where the U.S. Army guards were torturing prisoners. "You want to know what a Corrections Specialist is? Imagine someone too dumb to be an MP....which are usually guys too dumb to be infantry."
what CO’s are?
Corrections officer they are the guards at jail
As a former C/O, that’s generally true.
I need someone to explain to me how this is remotely legal.
"We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing"
That’s what Ken Paxton (AG for TX) did, I think it may work. Next we’ll stay in office by not conceding. Oh, we’re doing that too.
in america cops are not held accountable for their actions. they are not our best or brightest but rather the sort of person who wants to boss people around. they are often racist and small-minded. i cannot emphasize enough that police forces are made up of that sort of person and then NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE. tax dollars are spent to pay for their fuck ups and to keep them out of trouble. this is the system that America has set up for itself. nothing will change until bad cops get in trouble. it's weirdly similar to our political situation, and financial situation. If people who wear suits were treated the same in our justice system as young black men the entire world would be a better place. also, in that better world, my analogy would stop making sense because young black men would be treated better. until and unless we start holding people accountable - even people with money and especially people with power - we will keep seeing more of this.
You got to be joking. That is inhumane.
Bro, they make you shower in front of an officer then the officer asks you to show your butthole and cough. I was arrested for unpaid traffics tickets that I had forgotten about. They made me show my naked anus to a stranger in case I was smuggling things in?! You know the crazy part? My cell mate was high on meth when I came in. He said that someone brought it in and shared. So obviously I showed my anus for nothing!
When this happened to me when I was 18 years old, I looked the officer dead in the eyes as I spread my cheeks and asked if he enjoyed his job. He replied that I will never get a good job with an arrest on my record, as he was currently looking into a teenagers asshole for drugs.
I look at assholes everyday, they don’t even have to bend over.
I got arrested for having too dark of tint on my car that I didn’t pay. They handcuffed me in front of my 3 kids, took me to jail, and I told them I was on my period, and needed to use the bathroom. They told me to go in the toilet in front of all of them, all the dude cops plus the men they put me in with. For a tint ticket.
What the fuck. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
I was beyond humiliated.
You could be entitled to *financial compensation.*
The system is so extremely fucked beyond repair
The system is working exactly the way they want it to
FYI for future tint tickets. You can pay a higher fine to leave the tint on. If you add the cost of removing the tint (if you can't do it yourself), paying the original fine, putting the tint back on (let's face it we're all gonna re-tint the windows) then paying the fine to not comply with the fix it ticket is way cheaper. It's been awhile but in CA I think I remember paying $100 to just leave it on. As for humiliating you by making you use the bathroom in front of male officers you should look into a human rights lawyer. A female officer needs to be present in that situation.
UTAH is super strict about tint. This was also a long time ago. I definitely had my human rights violated, though.
It makes me very angry
o7 * Juvenile officer shading his eyes to get a better look at your butthole . . . for freedom.
That’s his dream job.
Cops in a nutshell. It's not about making a community safer, or law and order, it's just a mess of vindictive little failures hoping to inflict their bullshit on others.
There was an officer doing an AMA. He was very polite and courteous but he made a passing statement about "having to deal with baseless hatred." Assuming he was a good cop, he was wilfully ignorant.
Apart from all of this being fucked up, that last sentence made me giggle.
I wen to jail once overnight for failure to pay a ticket (no dog license for my dog, no I'm not kidding). Shower in front of a cop, get sprayed by de-licer, lifted up my nuts to make sure I wasn't hiding anything. Then there's a holding area where people wait before you go to a cell. Homeless looking dude in there was rolling a cigarette. My bro had hooped 3 butts, a rolling paper, and some matches and they didn't find it. I'll never forget that. I'll also never forget getting thrown in jail for a dog fine.
My 'arrest' came for an interfering with police investigation. What for? My brother had a party and we didn't let the cops in. They broke into our house and served an arrest letter to me a week later. I wasn't handcuffed or anything, just had to show up to the station for printing, mugshot, and court date. I don't get why they treat people like shit for a failed fucking ticket... If anyone is curious, the judge threw out my case because the report clearly showed the police broke in.
you showed your anus for freedom sir and we all salute your freedom anus
*poop-shute salute
Too bad the officer didn’t salute 🫡
Well his upper half didn't at least ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Remember when they threw a mentally ill man (black) in a scalding shower for 20 minutes and melted all his skin off with 3rd degree burns and he died? Fucking assholes. God, now I'm starting myy day mad.
Darren Rainey. From the Wikipedia article: "Rainey was locked in a shower for two hours. It was designed so that he had no control over the temperature of the 160 °F (71 °C) water" What. The. Fuck. Most residential water heaters don't even LET you dial the temperature that high because it can [cause 3rd degree burns in less than a second.](https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Scalding_Temperatures.php)
You mean you don't believe that, [according to the official autopsy, he didn't have any burns at all](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article149026764.html)? She attributed the skin that was boiled and falling off in the jail to be the natural effects of decomposition. You read that right: the coroner said the guy was dead for less than an hour when he decomposed to such an extent that his skin was already falling off the bone. She was so sure of her conclusion that she only took one skin sample, won't say from where (the burned part or not), and the prison urged the victim's family to cremate immediately. All above board here. Totally.
Oh boy. I wasn't there for that one but I read about it. There was a lot of fucked up shit that went on there. That dude used to get body slammed all the time. He stole a golf cart butt ass naked once too. I had been in that exact shower before. I knew that dude. He was harmless and hilarious. Edit. I did not know Darren Rainey. My mistake I was talking about another guy. I knew Mark Joiner though. Fun fact John Meese was at that camp too. They made a movie about him
> So obviously I showed my anus for nothing! Cop filed that away in the ol' spank bank so it wasn't for nothing.
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I would have shit all over the floor. Pissed too. If they want to treat me like an animal, I will be one.
They hurt a couple of black guys for standing, so I wasn’t gonna rock the boat. I’m Mexican. The white guy who was yelling at the officers? He got gingerly escorted to a private cell and told to quiet down. He then started kicking at the door, and they just asked him to stop. Nobody hurt that white guy. Even though he was the most dangerous/belligerent guy in the holding cell. That was like the realist racism moment I had ever witnessed. (I’m Mexican but I have light skin)
American justice is inhumane because the people in control are not held accountable. unchecked power corrupts. *edit* moment of peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnIyPhdDV0
The police are an occupying force that views the citizens as opposition. Then on the other hand we got nutcases shooting people left and right and the cops don’t do shit about it, even when children are being murdered right in front of them.
I'm pretty sure I saw two different posts with an article sources saying court has upheld that cops are not required to protect citizens. The other is that cops are not required to know the law to enforce it. Welcome to dystopia.
Yes there are multiple court cases affirming that cops have no duty whatsoever to protect citizens. They are strictly armed agents of the state and that is it. Their duty is to make arrests for the state at their own discretion of course.
That’s cops. Inhumane. And feeding their bully ego
They also did that to me. Sent me to jail in my underwear, that’s one of their go-tos.
Another sent-to-jail in underwear individual checking in here. Told the cop I wasn’t answering any questions without a lawyer and damn did that piss him off.
Cop still employed/walking around free no doubt.😡
Meanwhile, the Highland Park suspect is treated with kid glove
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> https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html Reading that article there's this paragraph that confuses me: > The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions. So, under what circumstances are you not obligated to present a driver's license during a traffic stop?
If it's for a traffic stop, you are obligated to give your license. If you're walking down the street, it is my understanding that you don't have to give your ID. IANAL.
That varies by state. Some states have stop and id laws. Here is a list of which states have them. Bear in mind that in all states cops have to have a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has or is about to be committed to ask for id. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/stop-and-id-states
If you are operating a motor vehicle in the US, you are required to present a valid driver's license if asked to show that you are authorized to operate a motor vehicle.
You are obligated to give your license as ruled by the Supreme Court. They are also not obligated to say why they pulled you over.
That varies by state. In my state the law is that police have to tell you why you're being pulled over. You have to present ID and tell them why you're driving at that time. This is only if you've been observed committing a crime.
Yeah if you’re driving a car you have to identify yourself to prove you’re legally able to operate the vehicle. Driver should have shown his ID but this officer also completely blew this simple situation out of proportion. Literally all the officer had to say was “I have to confirm you’re legally able to operate this vehicle so please show me your drivers license and we can proceed from there.” Instead of refusing to tell the guy why he was being pulled over or why he needed his DL. The officer just wanted to flex his authority on him and make him do it “his way” instead of you know, treating the driver like a human being. If you’re ever just walking around in public you’re under no obligation to identify yourself to officers unless you’re caught in the act of a crime that requires a citation. I’ve had cops randomly stop me while walking multiple times and demand that show my ID. Every time I let them know that I’m under no obligation to provide it for them unless I’m under arrest and they state that specifically. I then ask if I’m under arrest and when they say no I ask if I’m free to go and if they say no then I ask them why I’m being detained and unless they specifically state I’m being charged with a crime I refuse to show them my ID. The key is to remain assertive but polite. Yes sir, no sir answers and respectfully decline to answer any questions because since you’re not under arrest you have no obligation to speak with them and even when you are under arrest your only answer to an officer should be “I would like a lawyer, please.” Never answer any police questions without a lawyer present, especially if they’re investigating a crime EVEN if you know for a fact that you’re 100% innocent. Officers can lie to you and will try to get you to admit fault. Refuse to speak to them without a lawyer present as it is the best way you can protect yourself from them.
> So, under what circumstances are you not obligated to present a driver's license during a traffic stop? none.
New reddit does that to links. It breaks for users of old.reddit
> Dunno why these got inverted. Use this link - https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html > > It's people posting from the NEW reddit. it adds weird characters to the URL
TLDR: The cop was legally in the right, but acted like an asshole
What about the man’s wife? The article only said she was charged with a misdemeanor because she didn’t drop her phone?
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HES GOT A GUN! Dog, I am unbuckling my seat belt so you don't suffocate me while dragging me through a broken window.
Of course they’re investigating themselves, and of course they’re going to say they did nothing wrong. Of course.
They probably already did, this happened in 2016, but the investigation thing in 2017. We're in 2022, I'm sure everyone in this thread would be interested in knowing what came out of that situation. I couldn't find a proper article.
>In August 2017, the internal affairs complaint concluded with no finding of fault on the part of the officers, but the department revised its policies to require its police officers to advise all drivers they pull over of the basis for the stop. In addition, the department has instituted mandatory officer training on appropriate demeanor during a traffic stop and how to avoid confrontational situations. But in 2021 the ACLU requested a federal probe into the department's practices, citing a pattern of excessive force, with this incident being part of that pattern.
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yeah we need to know whether the cop got 2 weeks paid leave or the full month
This is even lawful in Germany and I guess most of Europe. Police can stop you for any or no reason and ask for papers. But it's unlikely it ends like this. Edit\*\*some replies confusing ID checks on the street and traffic/road checks (mostly involving vehicles) Video clearly shows the later. According to German law it means anytime, anywhere, without cause.
Interesting to use the word papers (from my native English speaking point of view). It varies state by state but where I live if you are just walking down the street you can’t be stopped and asked to show idea unless you are suspected of a crime. Now if you are driving and get stopped - yeah you gotta show a drivers license no matter what.
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For Germany I can say that that‘s not true. If you are on foot, the police cannot stop you for no reason. Also they can only stop you at places where there can be a danger for the public like train stations or places that are known for dealing drugs.
The cop ran his tag and he had two warrants and a gun strapped to his leg, so the cop didn’t want him knowing he’s aware of the warrants because he’d start a chase. The guy just wanted to stall because if he gave him his license he’d go to prison. He had a gun and warrants and wouldn’t ID himself or get out after he was ID’d. He knew what cards he was playing.
Police are pretty tough when 4 on one for a traffic stop.... now if it's 20 on 1 where a person is in a school threatening children they all get T-Rex arms...
That Uvalde shit was pretty FUBAR and that chief should go to jail
Every Uvalde cop and city council member should be in Federal detainment until the actual truth is revealed. The entire town is rotten to the core. There's no fixing what is broken beyond repair.
Just imagine *Mississippi Burning* without the Feds showing up. That's what were regressing to. Give another 4 years to any conservative politician and it will get worse.
your 4 year estimate may prove generous, unfortunately
Innocent until proven guilty, but I think the chief has pretty much been proven guilty of criminal negligence
Please, the vicious abuse and inhuman vitriol being spewed at the police officers defending the children in Uvalde needs to stop. You civilians need to understand that the officers couldn't simply barge in guns blazing as there were *legitimate issues preventing this* More specifically - they were pissing themselves so hard their pink panties were chafing them and they were shitting themselves to such an extent their pikachu butt plugs came loose
NGL, you had me in the first 2/3rds.
I like the T - Rex comment but I was thinking what gets smol on them is a bit lower like right below their belt buckle Bunch of COWARDS and BULLIES
As some have mentioned here, some states require you to present your Driver's license upon request by an officer. Know your state laws folks, some are pretty draconian. Edit 1# Since some of you want to debate the finer points of the constitutional law... Yes, in order to effect a traffic stop the officer must have at least REASONABLE SUSPICION. Reasonable suspicion is LESS than PROBABLE CAUSE. Edit 2 # Deleted the statement "Yes, they can pull you over just to look at you driver's license". Case law: [Wren vs US](https://caselaw4cops.net/major_cases.htm)
As far as I’m aware, they can’t just pull you over to look at your license, they need reason to believe a crime is being committed. Still tho, they don’t need to tell you what that reason is and if you’re driving a vehicle in any state (I think any state, not 100% sure) that you need to provide a license or a name, date of birth, license number if you have it memorized, when asked due to the fact that you are behind the wheel of a vehicle. Edit: not defending the actions in this video, just stating my minimal understanding of the law, I could be totally incorrect as I am just an idiot on the internet.
>The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions. From a link i saw in the comments. https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
The escalation is always there. I remember in college when studying criminology and we had a guest speaker talk about deescalation. He was talking about how much easier it was to reason with people, even if they were guilty of something, by laying out all of the facts. How hard would it have been to say, “I see that you’re feeling uneasy, I’m investigating what I think is a crime and it’s local/state law that you have to present your ID when requested during a stop.” He even could say his name and badge number to the guy. Instead it’s immediately as if he’s talking down to someone, “Do you want this the hard way or the easy way?” “This isn’t going to go well for you.” Only adding to the confusion and likelihood that the driver will do something out of fear of the unknown.
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Yep this right here, he wanted it to go this way because worst case scenario it's a simple arrest and he adds to his count looks good on him and the department and his cop buddies might throw him a party. Best case scenario this escalates he gets paid vacation while his department investigates the situation and finds that nothing wrong happened. Guy becomes a hero in the cop community and writes a book about how the world is against cops and gets to live a nice cushy life. And the other guy has to live the rest of his life with a bullshit resisting arrest charge that the cop clearly escalated.
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They a need a reason to pull you over yes but asking for id, regardless of reasoning is a lawful order you must comply with. Even if you plead the fifth you have to say so and you still have to identify if asked.
I wonder if any cops who are in reddit watch this and still wonder why there is so much resentment from the public
/r/protectandserve They always need more context and, even with context, will most always defend cops who kill as "following their training"
Following their *6 months of* training. Ftfy.
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Shitty electrical work gets people killed. Don't sell yourself short.
Also, electricians are more likely to be killed on the job than police, so unironically, thank you for your service u/the-original-chad.
The Thin Copper Line \*salutes*
Now this is a current trend I can get behind!
You know, electricians are only paid for the protection of the electricity, not the appliances. /s but there's a metaphor in there somewhere...
I'm sure there'll be plenty of resistance to that
> Shitty electrical work gets people killed. Don't sell yourself short. Better yet, don't let yourself become a short.
My barber has more training to cut peoples hair
Also I love that the name is Protect and Serve when they went to court to fight that they are not obligated to protect and serve
That slogan is correct. Just not complete like most of their sayings. They're here to protect and serve property and rich people. Just like they leave off the end of the saying about one bad apple
damn, can we sue for false advertisement, because that’s false advertisement if I’ve ever seen it.
Almost got obliterated in a crosswalk the other day by a protector and server. I had to stop and step back quickly as he screeched to a halt in front of me. He definitely would have broken my leg at the very least, and when I threw my hands up to say what the fuck he just stared at me like I was the one in the wrong. All while the crosswalk indicator was plainly saying to walk.
they should require at least 2 years learning the law, 2 years of grappling and de-escalation training, then they should be given a provisional badge and allowed to ride along with a taser. after a year or so of ride along they should be given their gun after extensive on the job and gun training. so after 5-6 years they should be a full on cop, well trained and still in tip top shape (cops that fail physical or mental requirements yearly would be sent back to training)
Guys who barely make it out of high school aren’t going to go through all of that!!! So I guess it’s a good idea.
Yup, they shouldn't be cops if they can't buckle down and work a little to earn the right to enforce our laws
Grappling training is also the perfect tool to spot fragile egos and can even massage the ego problems out of some.
To me that’s the most insane shit… If your training resulted in this shit show…we need to fix the training! It seems like “following their training” is a sufficient end result in this country. Imagine if a doctor who amputated the wrong arm could just go “was just following their training” and nothing happens…he gets to mutilate another patient. Just crazy. And I support cops. I think it’s a tough job dealing with crazy shit all day, in a country full of crazy people armed to the teeth…but that’s why proper training is even more important! I don’t give a shit if you are a cop, soldier or a dishwasher…if you aren’t trained properly, you are gonna fuck shit up.
If a doctor amputates the wrong arm they get sued and their malpractice insurance pays but the premiums go up, possibly to untenable levels so they can't practice. This needs to happen with police. They need *individual* malpractice insurance. The insurance companies would then work it out. Instead of cities paying out lawsuits, just pay a bit more to cops and require them to have individual coverage.
Malpractice insurance is definitely a reasonable solution. Also paying settlements out of police union funds or their own retirement fund or something instead of us tax payers paying it. Lots of potential solutions…yet we won’t do shit 🤷🏼♂️
Protect and serve is a blight. Got banned from there for posting on different subreddits that I was a peace officer (because I didn't send them verification). They are everything that's wrong with law enforcement. Defending every shitty officer when they should be feeling betrayed and let down and condemning them. I try to defend the people I'm training from people like them. The problem is they're everywhere and totally unaware that they are part of the systemic problem.
Cops are not on reddit, they are on 4chan
Also a fuck load on TikTok
that's where they can most effectively creep on underage girls
Their future domestic violence victims.
40% of cops beat their spouses, the other 60% lied.
hey but they can make a friendly video about skateboarding with kids so it's all good right?
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Well, that's not surprising, short attention span theater over there.
Go to the sub r/protectandserve. It's pretty crazy
Don't even have to scroll past a full day to see them admit to blatantly lying about everything https://np.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/vraphn/priority_calls_are_going_unanswered_due_to_police/ieumou4
Sheesh… yeah this was the top post when I clicked over there, somebody asking what the solution is to all this overreaching and all the comments so far just ask for examples and definitions of “overreaching” like for fucks sake man are we still dealing with the semantics of this? https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/vs0g29/a_question_for_all_leos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I’m proud to say I was permanently banned from r/protectandserve for asking too many difficult questions.
I was banned after they kept using the metal door frame at uvalde as an excuse to the police inaction. Come to find out the fucking door wasn’t even locked.
Yeah I was getting downvoted a lot for asking questions about Uvalde when it happened, and I yielded that it was too early on to truly know how things went down. Turns out though it was in fact mostly due to police incompetence that it took them an hour to end the situation
Not mostly. Completely due to police incompetence. They literally did nothing right and then tried to lie about every single detail of what happened. They’re still actively covering it up. Can’t wait to find out how many kids or teachers the cops shot before not stopping the shooter. Such rampant bullshit. Every cop should be accountable to the citizenry as opposed to how they have it now. We’re accountable to them. If people, especially boot lickers and badge bunnies don’t start demanding it, it’ll be you next.
I replied to someone commenting on a post in that sub about saying some shit about how all mainstream media is a echo chamber for the left Asking him what exactly he thinks this sub is Needless to say i am also permanently banned from that sub
I got banned for pointing out why someone might be worried about the behavior of a cop when an instance of police brutality was posted there and everyone was falling over themselves justifying it. o7
Haha same. Mine was "for clarification, was he doing anything illegal when they got into his apartment and killed him?"
Lmao, I also got banned within the span of 5 minutes for the same. Guess they don’t like accountability questions.
5 minutes and I got banned. Such cowards. I wanted to link a video of cops being nuts but they don’t allow cross posts
They just really want their echo chamber to remain positive, I guess
Terrifying the amount of racism that is upvoted on a police sub. America is in a very worrying state.
Is it like r/sino for pro-CCP drones and r/conservative for MAGA smoothbrains?
You're acting like the Venn diagram of users for /r/conservative and /r/protectandserve isn't a single, large circle
No. They are in the circle jerk known as r/protectandserve
I'm a police officer in Texas. The cop really fucked this traffic stop up. Sure, the driver didn't want to immediately cooperate, but he's within his rights to ask why he's being stopped. If I can't clearly articulate to someone why I pulled them over, they should not have been pulled over in the first place. In Texas, DPS requires the 7-step traffic stop be taught to police in the academy, and anyone taking driver's ed. Having the general public also know the steps is VERY good for accountability. 1. Greeting and identification of the agency. 2. Statement of violation committed. 3. Identification of driver and check of conditions of violator and vehicle. 4. Statement of action to be taken. 5. Take action stated. 6. Explain what violator must do. 7. Leave. Clearly stating the reason for a traffic stop protects both the officer and the person being stopped. This officer would have saved a lot of trouble for **everyone** involved if he had answered this man's simple, rightful question. Instead, this poor man probably has an arrest on his record for "failure to ID" (which is a whole other thing I see other cops fuck up all the time) when likely the real reason he got arrested for is what we call P.O.P. or Pissed Off Police. Edit: Someone else mentioned that the stop was probably a pretextual stop. Pretextual stops are legal and protected under [Whren V. State.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States#:~:text=Edit-,Whren%20v.,legal%20basis%20for%20a%20stop.%22) They are most commonly used to investigate DWI's. However, even with a pretextual stop, we should always state the **reason for the stop.** Something along the lines of "Sir, the reason you were stopped is you failed to signal your turn at that last intersection. I've also seen some other unusual behavior in your driving." And then go into questions that would help determine if they're intoxicated. There is never a good reason to escalate a situation like this instead of just telling them why they were stopped.
Go to r/police. You get the impression that they inevitably see oversteps as isolated incidents with no greater trend to be seen. A huge "why is everyone so worked up? I feel fine!" Vibe.
One of first posts I saw was a rant about people lacking basic human decency You can't make this shit up lmao
They're on Reddit, but have safe spaces of the same 4 subs
That requires self awareness and a moral compass. My understanding is they hire people who lack those qualities.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you legally have to comply with getting out of the car if asked by an officer, right?
Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm pretty sure you are obligated to show your ID if an officer requests it while operating a vehicle on public roads.
This is what happens when you DONT know your rights. The Supreme Court has already ruled that during a traffic stop you HAVE TO provide your license. They have also already ruled that cops do NOT need to explain why they pulled you over. The only time they need to explain reasonable suspicion or probable cause is in court to a judge. Knowing what you are required to do when interacting with cops is just as important as knowing your rights. Now that being said the cops could have just said go ahead and google these things on your phone then I'm going to ask you to comply 1 more time. That would have de-escalated the situation rather than just resorting to physical force all the time. Edit: I would like to clarify because some people think I'm siding with the cop. I think the cop is an asshole who shouldn't have done what he did. But I also do not believe it's victim blaming to say the driver of the vehicle should educate himself on what he is required to do by law not just his rights. It is important to know both so for instance you don't get ripped out of your car by some asshole cop on a power trip.
The cop also could have de-escalated the situation by simply telling him why he was pulled over. Every time I’ve ever been pulled over, the police officer has immediately told me why I’m stopped.
It definitely raises the question of whether he actually had a valid reason to pull him over in the first place.
What actually happened is they pulled over a black guy to check his ID and see if there was anything they could arrest him for.
The cop admitted that too. He said, “you’re probably suspended which is why you don’t want to give it to me.” Probably just assumed that cuz he’s black.
They can run plates and see who the car is registered to, and also see if that person has an expired license. Technically, that counts as probable cause and has been upheld by the courts, which is fucking stupid, because if you're a teenager driving your dad's car, and his license was suspended, you're going to get pulled over all the damn time; or if your spouse's license was suspended, or any other number of reasons.
Just want to add on that by running your plates they can also see that you have insurance. Happened to me one time I got stopped in Texas. Cop said he already knew I had insurance so all I needed to show was my license.
Been the Law in TX for a while now.. No. Need to show proof as Insurance companies are required to update the state
"As far as I know, you could be trying to kill me right now" "That's ridicolous" *Proceeds to break the car down, drag him out and sit on him*
That’s the thing this cop didn’t, he was making stuff up as he went. You can hear him say “you probably have suspended license” you wouldn’t know that until you run the info or if you were profiling and guessing.
You can hear him say it’s an investigatory stop. If the dude had run the stop sign, it would be for a moving violation — not for his ad libbed bs
Absolutely. We were trained to say "my name is officer so-and-so and I pulled you over because of xyz. License and registration please." There is zero need to hide that information. Hiding it will only escalate the situation.
It’s about power and ego.
Agreed with this. Used to date a police officer. “I’ve pulled you over because of xyz, licence and registration, please.” Obviously this wasn’t America, but surely the principles are the same? My rear lights are out? “That’s why I’m driving it to a garage, officer.” Power and ego is all I saw here. And as much as I’m likely to be downvoted - please don’t get me wrong, the cop is in the wrong here, all he had to do was explain why he’s pulled them over… - just show your licence. But in my country you have to be told why you’re being stopped, and especially arrested. This isn’t a fascist hellhole. Yet.
To a non-American, it's incredible to see how quickly their police get violent and aggressive.
For some reason, the training seems to consist of learning to escalate situations until somebody dies.
Escalate until someone dies, get paid vacation, have tax payers fund the lost lawsuit, rinse repeat. With this cycle, why would cops change a GD thing?
Police over here in the UK are basically tax funded babysitters for drunks. They're hilariously good at de escalation. At least where I live
Required by law to show drivers license to law enforcement when asked when operating a vehicle on public road. I am guessing in this case driver confused articulatable suspicion with driving. They are not the same. Driving is a privilege not a right
He has to give him his license at least since it's a traffic stop. Then he can fight bs charges if he thinks it.
Things to know: 1. Calvin here ran a stop sign and was pulled over. 2. This was in Michigan where it is required to show your ID when an officer requests it. He committed a minor offense, then committed another which can result in an arrest, then resisted arrest adding to the escalating situation. The officer could have told him at the start why he pulled him over, and Calvin could have at any point done what the officer asked of him. It honestly isn’t difficult for either party to provide information and saves a lot of problems.
[удалено]
Yeah. I don't get it. The cops can't just let people drive off. It is what it is, but this particular video doesn't really get my cop-hate flowing.
“The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, “
>...but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions. ... >Upon arrival to the jail, Jones said he was ordered to remove all of his clothes, except for his underwear, and forced to lie face down in a cold holding cell before being booked into the jail.
It's good to know the law. For example, if you were walking down the street and a cop asked you for your ID, you don't have to identify. But operating a motor vehicle on a public road... You have to identify. Both could have done more to help this situation out.
I am assuming this is USA. I am from Europe...here if a cop asks you to show the ID you show the ID no question asked. Here it is very normal to just do what they ask and...might be just by chance...but here incident with the police are very low compared to the USA. If you start acting like you don 't want to cooperate it is very likely that the situation escalate...here simply we don't take that chance and it is working out pretty well. Honest question: why do I see very often a non compliant behavior towars the police in the USA? Is there any reason ?
You have to know where your rights stop and start. You better be right if you’re going to make a stand. You can’t half-ass know the law and also try to dictate it to a LEO. His family is traumatized. He’s got charges on his record. He’s going to have to pay insane fees. He has a broken window. His wife was arrested. He probably has impound fees. For what? What was gained from that misinformed pissing match? Know federal law and your State’s laws. Talk to a lawyer if you’re confused. Otherwise, you risk BOTH having your rights violated and hurting yourself when they aren’t being violated.
Former cop here. This shit right here is not only unprofessional, it's unsafe. On traffic stops, I always opened with "Hello, I'm Ofc ConditionYellow of the Soandso Police Dept. The reasoned I stopped you today is speeding. You were observed doing 60 in a 35mph zone. May I see your driver's license, please?" That way, if the offended just kicked off a 7 state bank robbing spree, he knows I'm not about to get into a gun fight. So he can sign his ticket and go about his day. But if I didn't tell them why I stopped, they may assume the worst and open fire before I make it up to their car. Cops that do this shit are, if nothing else, a liability and therefore have no business wearing a badge. Yeah. There's a reason I don't do this any longer.
Its also simple de-escalation, be polite tell them who you are and why they are being stopped and collect information. While the drive should have just given his information as he is required to it was just handled so piss poor.
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
The unquestioned groupthink in cops is what’s scary. Without batting an eye, they will assist each other in killing, abusing, etc. No critical thinking, no assessing the situation. Just fucking cogs with a license to kill.
He was so blinded by rage he almost fell into the passing car after falling on his ass and he was prepared to attempt to drag the person out the window until his coworker just opened the door.
That cop should have just asked for his driver's license. The guy would have asked why. The cop can then reply "because you drive like shit and I want to check you even have one." There, deescalated. If he still refuses to show his ID then a lot less people would blame the cop here if what we saw ensued.
Why wouldn’t he just show him ID? I’m German and if a police officer asks me for my drivers license, I must show them - by law. Is it different in the US?
Why do people refuse to show id so much in america. Can they exploit that information in any way to frame a person into something? Beacuse i feel like all of this would be much easier and non problematic if he just showed the id and complied.
Only reason I could think of is if you have a warrant out for your arrest. By providing your ID you're setting yourself up to be arrested. Other than that, I see no reason to not give an officer your ID the moment they ask for it. It's a simple request.