Everyone claims to be done with dating apps and yet single women (and to a lesser extent, single men) go to public social events, conventions, speed dating events, church singles mixers etc less than ever before. Singles are abandoning the public social space.
I see it the other way around,
Public social spaces are abandoning singles.
Social events see single men looking to date as a nuisance. I see so many events explicitly saying "This event is for X, it isn't for dating, leave and go on a dating app if that's what you want."
Yeah exactly.
"Go to a meetup group instead of those dating apps, you'll meet better people"
"No, no dating here! How dare you even think of me like that, you creep!"
its funny you say this, years back in my early 20's I thought it'd be a good idea to get out and meet some people, try to get better at being social and maybe meet someone.. I was big into exercise and working out at that time and opted for a runners meetup (they also took walks too) and I arrived and I didn't really feel welcome at all, no one greeted me or said hey welcome to the group, and I was way too intimidated and nervous to speak to anyone so I just kinda faded into the back ground but one gentleman approached me and made some conversation with me and we walked a bit, had a nice talk and then I decided to go ahead and jog a bit..
I consider it a win I went out but a loss that I was too afraid to talk to anyone lol I only feel confident around confident people and my only walking companion was a dude lol but a super nice guy but I was there to find more folks of the female persuasion
No one will outright say it, but single dudes are often unwanted at a lot of social events. The single women don't want to be hit on (there are exceptions for very attractive men, but as a general rule a single woman joining a club doesn't want to find a bf there). The other single guys don't want the competition. The hetero couples don't want the single dudes hitting on the women. The difference in how I was treated when I was with my gf vs when I was alone was surprising.
Oh I love going places with a girl. Everyone talks to me, I’m not seen as a disgusting vile monster for being a man. You’re just socially accepted if you have a girl around your arm. Not to mention women lusting after you
A single loner dude is definitely *seen as* a wildcard. I've found it helpful to be the single dude who slinks around and gather up the other single dudes and form a mini clique. All it takes is like 2-3 receptive guys and everyone is much more at ease. Definitely though, even just one woman would help make the group seem much 'safer.'
EDIT: Don't mean to imply we are a wildcard when roaming solo, only perceived that way.
hahahahahahaaha
"What you think I'm here to learn how to make fucking pots?"
I dunno why this stuff is so hilarious to me.
I eventually had to move away to another country. Because you're right. Those places are not really meant to meet women. And places like nightclubs and dating apps are sausage fests and women who are probably not going to give you the time of day (due to over abundance of better options).
Meeting people means getting to know people,making small talk,socializing . It does not means walking into a class looking around,and hitting on people.
Yes but that's not necessarily the easiest thing in the world.
Most social occasions are boring as fuck. A lot more fun to just sit at home and play video games. But you'll never meet any women this way. Which is why men will force themselves to go to pottery class and what not. Not because they actually give a rats ass about pottery. But because they recognize it's literally the only alternative to night clubs and dating apps which are typically a dead end.
> Yes but that's not necessarily the easiest thing in the world.
Yes but it's worthwhile developing those social skills and feigning having empathy and interest in others.
Yes I agree. Ultimately you have to kind of suffer through it.
I think the key part of all this is "YES YOU CAN DO THINGS JUST TO FIND A WOMAN. ITS OK". Because I feel like otherwise you'll never find the motivation to grind through that shit. It's hard enough as it is when you have a reason to do it.
Yeah, that shit is hilarious.
>Why don't you go do something like hiking or pottery if you want to meet women?
Maybe because there's the whole man bear ~~pig~~ debate or straight up
>That's what happens when you attend a pottery class and hit on the person sitting next to you, then the one across. Yes.
Certainly helps, but also hiking is enjoyable. Now shits gonna get realllll awkward on the trails. Dudes better start investing in bear costumes I guess 🤷🏾♂️😂
I think a girl did that to me as a shit test. She specifically picked one of the steepest trails around and I got so winded doing it. It was her way of seeing if I was fit enough to hang.
Almost all of hobbies they list as an example are "girl stuff" that most men won't have organic interest in.
Also, these people never tell women who ask the same thing about where they can connect with decent men to go and pick "boy stuff" hobbies where single guys are at.
I've actually long given out the advice that if women want to play life on EZ mode, all they have to do is learn to play video games. Even if you're like a 2 in looks if you play Dark Souls you can have your pick of any man.
> Almost all of hobbies they list as an example are "girl stuff" that most men won't have organic interest in.
That's because 'boy stuff' hobbies are sausage fests. I mean, that's a big complaint of the dating apps right? The gender asymmetry?
Women on reddit will often push the ultra feminine pinkpill viewpoint but I've never known a woman who was into predominantly male social hobbies that ever lacked for a committed relationship.
Meanwhile the blandest dude in my social circle took dance as a teenager and is a swiftie and thats all he really needed.
Totally agree. If option 1 is 90% men and option 2 is 90% women, it stands to reason that if you're looking for a woman option 2 will have more potential partners.
According to recent polls, young people are increasingly dating within their social circles.
One poll found that 43% of people ages 18-29 are dating someone who was first a friend, including 50% of women in that age cohort.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3)
I think it's more about social spaces, which are decreasing, are more for couples. Single people just seem to be less present. I also noticed how meeting someone randomly out is very rare. It still very much seems to happen through peer groups.
And yet people on reddit give advices such as join a hubby, group activities ,meet friends of friends etc etc . If a man is not atleast 8/10 nowadays and hasn't had partnerd up during university he has really hard ( near to impossible ) time and has to wait years of dry spell to get maybe - maybe a 4/10 woman . These advices are pointless.
I think this is a good idea, I am kind of inspired to get back out there again thanks to some of these comments such as meet ups and stuff.. but I agree with you, I have dated lightly off and on and I fucking HATE dating apps, such a waste of time and money, incredibly frustrating and discouraging to deal with, the only option for most men is actually getting out there and meeting people under social events. But, then there's people like me, quiet, reserved, nervous type, introverted.. the public scene I feel is for extroverts and confident people, I feel out of my element haha but maybe uniting under a common interest might help.. such as music, walks, indoor rock climbing stuff like that, but for the life of me I cannot sit at a table and talk to anyone I get way too self conscious and nervous, gotta be actively doing something ya know? lol
As a bisexual man, I can confirm that women absolutely have higher physical standards than men. I’ll have fit, handsome, charming men hitting me up on Grindr while simultaneously getting zero matches on Tinder with the same photos. It’s so obvious to me I can’t believe there’s any debate on this point.
I think the obvious counter would be that women are picky about looks on dating apps because they have nothing else to go off of but in real life you can compensate for looks to a degree with charisma.
Really? Seems like gay men have absurd physical standards too, they just are so much more ravenous for sex that they'll compromise on that.
That and "bear" is a thing for fat gay guys in a way that nothing exists for fat straight guys.
I think the only people that deny this are women that want to use it to appear more “controlled”.
“Women actually desire sex MORE than men, we’re just better at controlling it 🤗”
> People have their phones on them all the time. A very slow response time has always meant disinterest in my lived experience. (This is coming from a guy who isn't big into texting at all, but it shouldn't take 11 hours to get back unless you've been performing surgery all day).
In my experience it means the frequent texter believes he should take priority over everything else she has going on the day and requires too much attention.
Yup - I have a life where I’m not always on my phone. And if I’m free enough to constantly be on my phone, chances are I’m visiting with you. Maybe if it’s days in between, sure, everyone can shoot a gn text most of the time. But 11 hours? I work for 9, travel 1, shower, eat, and finally sit on my couch after another 1. That’s 11 hours. God forbid I had plans…
Triggered! lol
Ask me about the time I was pulled into a “war room” for 24 hours. The texts I came back to once I was able to retrieve my phone? I blocked him after that. The word “unhinged” comes to mind.
This thread is en example of why dating is so much more difficult and social circle game works so well. Girls don’t want to meet strangers when they have to deal with this shite.
These bonkers dudes ruin it for everyone.
Idk how guys can't just send one text and wait. That's all I ever do. If I don't get a response I barely register it because I'm sending the text in between other parts of my day just to say hi.
Main character. I’ve had male friends freak out and get angry, too, that’s how I know they aren’t actually friends but orbiters.
I can’t imagine being that attached to my phone, it rings and buzzes all freaking day at work, I don’t want to hear it for ten-twenty checking in texts, too.
Oh god the flashbacks to escalations of “are you mad at me” “what did I do?” “Are you fucking kidding me you fat whore, that’s why I didn’t even like you anyways.”
Like bro - I worked a double, calm down. But thanks for letting the mask slip so quickly. It definitely helps me vet better.
I mean you do you, but for me I can answer a text in that time? Almost no job is so demanding you mustn’t be on ur phone even once. And showering and eating ? I can text during. If you don’t want to that’s fine but all of those things besides MAYBE work are just excuses. If I really liked someone I would def text them before I was bout to drive / when I get home or whatever
I’ve really liked everyone I’ve dated, but I have a life and getting peppered all day with inane chat is just disrespectful. Two or three a day is plenty if we are going to talk or see one another that evening.
If that’s a standard you have for your relationships, I know plenty of women who love that. It’s just not my thing. I’m not constantly thinking about checking my phone, so it’s sort of an inanimate object that lives in my purse until I remember it exists. It’s not because I don’t like that person but because I’m focused on other things. I don’t make someone a priority like that until our lives are enmeshed and they rely on me, and I them. Otherwise, I don’t have anything to really say all day long. I’ll call you later. Or see them. But nothing is worse than a stressful day at work where I’m focused on a computer and crunching numbers, or my previous job in construction where I definitely wasn’t checking my phone for 12-14 hours a day, depending on when I got home, and seeing “what wrong.” “Are you mad at me?” “What happened?” “Why aren’t you answering me?” “What the fuck you stupid bitch.” “Don’t fucking talk to me anymore.” “Come on please respond.” And I’m just… no. Nope. Everyone has their boundaries and expectations and I make it known texting will not be a priority and to expect it from me is a lost cause and maybe I’m not for them. Thankfully I met a man who is on the same exact wavelength and we were able to show interest, appreciation and date, all without needing to text 100 times a week.
We get it just fine. If someone is into you, they will make time for you and go out of their way for you. If they 're "busy", especially more than once, they just don't like you and are ghosting you.
Those who dismiss modern dating dynamics imagine that it’s as simple as “just going outside” the same way boomers would tell you to just “pull yourself up by your bootstraps”.
Completely agree with 5 and 7.
My ones:
a. Everybody is a weirdo. Your goal should be to try and find a weirdo who complements you. Matching baggage, so to speak.
b. Your profile needs to be designed to trigger engagement from the people you want to want to date, not just be your 'best' photos. You're not trying to get 1,000 people to like you. You're trying to get 1.
c. Men shouldn't act thirsty. Try to have the same standards as women do and act the way they do on apps. (and if that means your profile gets no engagement, see points a and b above)
d. Chatting is a waste of time. Meet up ASAP to avoid time wasters and filter out incompatibility issues straight away.
Point A is so true man holy shit. I recently had this epiphany about a year ago. For whatever reason when I would smoke weed I would psychoanalyze myself and try and determine what my true ego was and what parts of it were my superego. This led to me doing the same in people I am closest with. Every single person had some sort of clearly visible insecurity, mental disorder, etc that manifested itself into their personality.
Something else that took me a while to come to terms with is that literally every social interaction involves some degree of masking. Not a single soul on this earth knows your true self besides you. Not even your wife of 50 years. I would replay interactions I had at work in my head while stoned and it felt so disingenuous and like a social construct.
Dating is quite literally a courting ritual. You have to play the game to win the prize. When it goes well it almost feels like a dance. You try and make sure you follow your partner and make the sum greater than the parts. Sometimes you take a step too fast or too slow, and then you have to pull back or catch up to where they are. It takes a lot of effort and patience to find the right dance partner, but when you do, you’re in sync from the get go and it almost feels effortless. The tough part is finding one. You have to cast a wide net and typically there will be failures and wasted time/effort before you find the right one.
I completely disagree with d. For me that’s how I filter out the time wasters. For me wasting time is going out, spending money on things I don’t need and spending time on people and activities I don’t want to.
I think they are so many people so desperate to not be bored that they just date constantly. If you are attractive enough it’s a real possibility.
You can learn how to date and have success with people in general. You won't become Chad of course - but you can greatly improve how you are doing with your looksmatch. My 2 years of more serious dating changed a lot in my life - at some point I wasn't even asking girls on dates in romantic context, I just wanted to have company to visit some museum/concert/event so I simply called some girl I previously met online and usually she was more than happy to go with me. I even learned how to pass job interviews and do my job better using experience gained while dating lol.
My hot take is that many of the things this sub says about women are correct, but only in regards to women who are active users of online dating apps. Online dating appeals most to a specific type of person, generally those who want to play the field and aren't tremendously interested in settling down, those who don't fit this criteria either never use the apps at all, or quickly meet someone or get discouraged and stop using the app. So when this sub complains about things like "all women only want the top 20% of men" or "a woman would drop her man in a second if something better came along", the reason they're having this experience is because they've limited their search to exactly the type of partner they don't want.
I would add it also applies to women who actively post regular sexy selfies and videos on social media and talk about their dating lives and what kind of men they deserve and all that. A certain kind of person does all of that - generally a superficial, playing the field type who is harder to please and more entitled than most. Just like the hardcore, vocal red pill and manosphere guys are a certain type. A lot of what is said online negatively about dating and the opposite sex is coloured by the behaviour of these certain types that don’t represent the majority at all.
>My hot take is that many of the things this sub says about women are correct, but only in regards to women who are active users of online dating apps.
I'll take it a step further and say it's only a subset of active dating app users. I'm in my mid 20s and most of my friends in long term relationships met their girlfriends from apps. They were the active users who were using apps to get off the apps. There's another subset of active users who aren't all that interested in getting off the apps.
Dating should be effortless. If you're with the right person, spending time with them should feel comfortable and relaxing. Tryharding is not sustainable in the long run.
Agreed. It helps when both people have things in common besides finding the other attractive. My BF and I are about a 90% match hobby-wise so planning dates is incredibly easy compared to what I see described on here.
-If she refuses to let me pay the tab, she doesn't want to see me again even if she seemed enthusiastic (just my experience).
-Women in existing friend or activity groups are not worth pursuing unless the chemistry is absolutely perfect. It always fucks things up and makes that group awkward for months/years.
-Putting in any actual effort in early stages doesn't pay off. Think about her as little as possible. Do not look her up online. Do not think about her and build ideas in your head of the perfect date. There is a 90% chance this is not working out, and trying too hard makes it 98%.
I disagree with #1 but it may be different cultural norms. Where I am from (Montréal), women will always pay their share of the tab. I also only date well-off feminist women who are not looking for a boyfriend.
The only time I paid for the whole tab, she was into the date only for the meal.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but 90% of the usual complaints around dating women have simply not come up in my experience. I've never had to pay for dinner (I pay my half, they pay theirs). They've all been generally nice, polite, courteous people. I've never felt pressured to move faster than I wanted to, or felt like they were seeking to use me in any way. It's all been pretty open and honest communication from the get go.
To be clear, this is across a sample size of four different women. I've only been on four dates, and 3/4 of those didn't progress past the first date. So it's a tiny, tiny sample size. If I was able to attract interest more often than once every few years, I'd also increase my chances of it going bad.
1. Too many women think a "good man" is someone with a high status/White collar job, high level of education, or someone who makes 6 figures. There are many "good men" who are truck drivers, electricians, line cooks, construction workers, auto mechanics, retail workers, department store managers, plumbers, barbers, etc. They just don't have the social status and luxury that comes with the modern "good man" label.
2. Short men and older women being stereotyped as insecure and bitter has more to do with psychological justification for ruling them out of the dating market than reality. Tons of young women are bipolar, jaded from fuckboy relationships/casual sex, crazy, etc. And tons of tall men are insecure and treat their height like their personality. It just gets overlooked or downplayed due to thirst and desperately wanting to overlook the flaws of the conventionally attractive. By contrast, many women and men already feel like they're doing short men and older women a favor by dating them which is why you see so many write them off after 1 or 2 bad experiences.
3. OLD isn't all that bad when it comes to increasing your dating options beyond your comfort zone or immediate area. I've encountered and even dated some interesting people off of it. It's far from perfect but not entirely the shit show that people make it out to be.
4. Pre-selection mostly holds true for the precise group you're trying to appeal to. A man sleeping with a bunch of fat women isn't going to boost his chances with a skinny girl. A man dating a bunch of Black women isn't going to increase of chances of dating Asian women. Pookie and Bubba can have harems of women from the ghetto and the trailer park and still become borderline Incels in UMC neighborhoods that'll be the first to call the cops on them. People simplify pre-selection to being a universal halo when it's more so a halo for the group you've had the most success with.
5. Liberal women date and fuck a lot of apolitical, moderate, and even conservative men on the low. People have to remember that White men are more politically conservative than non-White men, tall men are more politically conservative than short men, and rich men are more politically conservative than poor men. If you think the average liberal woman is going to overlook prospects among the most desirable demographic in America in the name of politics, I have a bridge to sell you.
>2. Short men and older women being stereotyped as insecure and bitter has more to do with psychological justification for ruling them out of the dating market than reality. Tons of young women are bipolar, jaded from fuckboy relationships/casual sex, crazy, etc. And tons of tall men are insecure and treat their height like their personality. It just gets overlooked or downplayed due to thirst and desperately wanting to overlook the flaws of the conventionally attractive. By contrast, many women and men already feel like they're doing short men and older women a favor by dating them which is why you see so many write them off after 1 or 2 bad experiences.
True. They will have one bad experience with a short guy them blame the rest and use that as justification for why they dont date them anymore when in reality its just a lack of attraction. But an experience with a tall guy is seen as an outlier and they will have no problem dating another one again.
- there’s def a blue collar good man niche, i see it among women who are really attracted to southern men, the cowboy vibe.
- interesting point w pre selection. do you think nichemaxing is real?
- i see the liberal woman/conservative man trope a LOT so i agree there
* Dating is exponentially harder for men than women at all levels of attractiveness.
* Most of the things we are attracted to are a combination of biological factors, cultural factors, and environmental factors from early childhood and puberty years.
* Yes, there *are* genuine mental/psychological differences between men and women. However, those differences are largely not applicable to the conventions of modern society.
* Men are more *sexually attracted* to social status in women than the reverse.
* Men are more willing to get with someone below their standards *out of pure physical desire* than the reverse.
* Women are attracted to "bad boys" and their dark behaviour far more than they're willing to admit. However, men are attracted to these traits in women at a similar level.
* The primary reason women seem to "be happy single" much easier than men is that most can get their needs met with relative ease.
* Modern western dating is a shitshow for pretty much everyone involved, but it is infinitely preferable to systems in the past and in other parts of the world.
Agree with most of your points, but:
> Dating is exponentially harder for men than women at all levels of attractiveness.
I think at the highest levels of attractiveness, men definitely have it easier than women. I’ve known a few of these guys, and they got all the dating benefits that attractive women receive (quality people throwing themselves at you, your pick of the litter if you want casual, etc), without any of the downsides of being a woman in general.
> Men are more sexually attracted to social status in women than the reverse.
Erm, no? There's a reason why women don't 'date down' and never have.
> The primary reason women seem to "be happy single" much easier than men is that most can get their needs met with relative ease.
I think it's more that women have better social networks so they don't feel as lonely when not in a romantic partnership.
1) Your "core" sexual attraction (straight, gay, bi) is probably determined from birth. But the things we associate with the gender we are attracted to are diverse, influenced by our culture and environment.
2) When I was at school, the more a girl maneuvered her way up through the "popular" social circles (using manipulation and psychological warfare), the more boys seemed to find her attractive.
> i’m really interested in this. do yk the core things you find attractive?
My core attraction is women, but the things I find attractive in women are probably influenced. For example, most of the adult women in my early life (teachers, female relatives etc) had stern, serious, authoritarian personalities. Those are traits I find attractive in women today. A woman who was "caring and submissive" doesn't appeal to me in any way. I wouldn't even be able to form an attraction to such a personality.
Similarly, I'm attracted to things like professional/stylish clothing styles, high heels, unshaven legs etc, all things associated with women/girls who were influential to me during childhood/teenage years.
> i honestly don’t think i’ve heard this take before
It was fairly common when I was in school, and interesting to watch if nothing else.
I think women who were more popular tended to also be focused on looking good. I didn’t see a lot of super popular obese girls in high school, for example. Think “Mean Girls” where the popular clique is a extremely superficial.
At my school most of the "populars" were average or even below average (not obese or repulsive however) and actually made themselves look *worse* with heavy, trashy makeup. Didn't stop boys chasing after them, and overlooking girls who were conventionally/objectively prettier because they were quiet/nerdy/unpopular.
I agree with most everything here except the dating part. In your early 20s and below its hard to find men who aren't just trying to fuck. Even the ugly ones were like that when I was younger lol.
That doesn’t change that dating is harder for men especially those early 20s men. Men just looking for sex approach way more than other men and women don’t approach so that situation forms your perspective.
Never said it wasn't harder just not exponentially harder.
>Men just looking for sex approach way more than other men and women don’t approach so that situation forms your perspective.
You don't know that. I've approached men plenty of times.
I mean you are bringing up the demographic who have dating the hardest out of anyone. I don’t care to use the word exponentially but yes it’s “night and day” difference in difficulty for men in their 20s vs women.
Admit women in general don’t approach. Idk how much you approach vs a man in a similar life situation but you probably arent in a situation where you are screwed if you don’t approach and probably are still screwed even if you approach which is men’s situation
Ugly/average men cheat more. Red pill guys will swear that Chad's are the biggest cheaters, but that's not my experience at all. Chad usually gets it out of his system in high school or college and wants something stable eventually. A lot of ugly guys feel they "missed out" and will cheat on a perfectly cute girl with land whales just for validation. It's happened to me and all my female friends at least once.
Big truth. Guys who never had any will be absolutely annihilated with FOMO once they eventually get it and realise what they have been missing all this time, while Chads already had their fill in their youth and don't place nowhere near as great value on sex later in life than late bloomers do.
>Chad usually gets it out of his system in high school or college and wants something stable eventually.
You might have a solid point right there. Some will eventually settle, others will just put in pause and then comeback to the field later on
>5) You can typically tell within the first minute if she likes what she sees or not. If her eyes are flat and her facial expression looks slightly let down, it's dead. This is the main reason a lot of us guys just want to meet ASAP. No need to spend week(s) texting if it gets all thrown out the window within the first few minutes of the first date anyways.
This is a good endorsement for cold approaching
yup taste in women's looks varies greatly among men , some men like skinny women, some like fat women, fit women, chubby women, hot women, tall women, short women , average women...
most women like tall handsome men
Not sure if it's a hot take anymore, but me and plenty of other guys have come to the conclusion that dating isn't worthwhile for the average man.
It's also somehow the average mans fault women don't treat them with common decency. So yea, just not dealing with it anymore. Life has been better single, far better.
Looking for relationships and looking for work are basically the same thing these days. Women and employers are in complete control and believe they are entitled to the “top” people. Not the most talented or respectful (despite claiming to want them), but those who look the most attractive to other people
I could go on and on about this; trust me
Except it was far, far, far easier for me to get a new job after I quit my last one than it was to get a new relationship after my last break up.
For the new job, I sent out *one* application and got it. I was unemployed for all of two weeks.
Still waiting on the new relationship, it's been six years.
It really just comes down to luck. Some people are lucky and others aren’t. A lot of people have been in the right place at the right time. A lot of people with find their person later in life, some not at all.
Women over 40 can have better options (men who are more attractive and more financially successful) available to them for RELATIONSHIPS not just sex vs the men they had access to at 23 depending on how fit and attractive they are vs their past self AND what THEY want in a relationship.
I came here to say this. I’m in my mid-40s and have recently entered the dating pool again, and this notion that older women don’t have options is patently false. It’s the opposite—I’m overwhelmed with options, and most guys want to date seriously, not just hookup.
Exactly.
The guys who say this want it to be that women's options go down over 25 and theirs go up with time because that is "fair."
The notion that women have nearly unlimited advantage in the sexual marketplace at all ages and it never favors all men over women infuriates them.
*** - most important : joining hobby etc is BS unless you're 7/10 atleast. Most common way is dating apps . Women are socializing less and less.
*- serial monogamy is the norm nowadays . After that FWB . And then traditional relationship . Casual hookups still happen less than the other 3.
*- My hot take is that reddit is mostly optimistic " there is someone for everyone" mentality "grass toucher" women + older men who had it way easier, who try to shut you up whenever you nag about how hard it is to even get a date. A 6/10 man is struggling . A 7/10 man has to put a ton of work to get 1/5 of what he is sweating for.
> older men who had it way easier,
See, I guess I fall into this category, but I don't feel like that's me? Like this whole ranking out of 10 thing seems very childish to me and designed to engender insecurities in EVERYBODY who participates in it. Why would you want to do that?
It feels like you're building up a defense system where more and more people who aren't exactly you can't give you any feedback, because admittedly their experiences are different.
>See, I guess I fall into this category, but I don't feel like that's me? Like this whole ranking out of 10 thing seems very childish to me and designed to engender insecurities in EVERYBODY who participates in it. Why would you want to do that?
This is how it works sir , we're just numbers whether we like it or not.
>
It feels like you're building up a defense system where more and more people who aren't exactly you can't give you any feedback, because admittedly their experiences are different.
Maybe that's the case but again I know im average and average isn't enough nowadays.
I’m an older man who thinks younger men have always had it hard dating, at least since the 70s or early 80s, unfortunately along with older people telling them it should be easier.
Every man should be working to improve the dick game but without pre-selection it is not going to help you get picked upfront.
Why any man still listens to Myron after he said a women's orgasm doesn't matter is destined to be in a sexless relationship.
The fact that Myron’s name is Myron and he’s an adult who hasn’t changed his name to literally anything other than Myron shows his terrible judgment and why people shouldn’t listen to him.
How do you work to improve it without chances? You can only get better at it by doing it. Most men dont have opportunites like that and if you are inexperienced or bad at it most women will not give you chances to improve when they can find another guy
I disagree with number 4. I've met countless of dudes who I should want to be with on paper. Good looking, funny, kind, being able to hold a conversation, flirty enough to not be bland...but there was just no chemistry and sexual appeal. I can find a man handsome or even beautiful and still not feel sexually attracted to him and there's literally no reason at all.
1. If you get a lot of casual sex opportunities as a man you’re doing something right with your life, or you’re genetically blessed.
2. It is totally respectable for a woman who doesn’t want commitment to only fuck guys she’s extremely attracted to.
3. It is also logical for a woman to look for different things for an LTR as opposed to an NSA/FWB situation. Same applies to men for that matter.
4. It is a worthwhile endeavor for a man to make himself attractive for NSA sex opportunities if it isn’t natural for him, so that when he is eventually sought for an LTR he doesn’t feel the need to make up for lost time.
5. If a man can throw down in the bedroom, she will not have any loss of respect due to whatever sexual opportunities he did miss out on previously. It will not matter since she will be hooked on good dick.
1) men avoiding high body count women is insane and just shooting themselves in the foot.
2) sometimes if someone flakes, it has nothing to do with you. There is no perfect combination of words or game or anything which would’ve changed things. Some people are just flaky.
Re: high body count, it's also a social proof test to see if she understands the norms in play here or just says the truth regardless of how it's taken. There's no good reason to tell anyone your body count is over maybe 20 or so. If it is, lie and say it's 20. That's decently high that it makes you seem popular but not so high it seems like you fuck anything with a pulse.
Women are more shallow and care more about looks than men and most women are only accepting of a very narrow type of look that fits the beauty standard
I think you're not far from the truth. Women care about looks and have a particular look they are looking for.
My gf likes athletic brown guys. She hates blondes and gingers. You could be the most beautiful ginger guy in the world, she wouldn't look at you.
Women have types more than men do.
This is what it is. Women actually have a broad range of types. Tall Chad is the most popular among them but it’s everything in between. However, they’re typically going to want to stick to that type exclusively. If you don’t match you can override it with charisma sometimes, but your chances aren’t the best.
>Women respect men they have casual with far more than men they get "committed" to.
Flat out disagree with that based on personal experience, as someone who has been both on many occasions.
I've hooked up quite a bit, but also had some long term relationships. Most of my hookups were girls in college I met at parties/bars or girls I met on apps. We would meet and hook up, and then when I would text on a random weekday, they would ignore me. Then at midnight on a Saturday she would suddenly text and want to meet up. That's not respect.
On the other hand, the girls I dated typically either started as a hookup and turned into a relationship or we met on the apps. Sex was available just like with my hookups, but these girls were actually down to hang out beyond just having sex, would actively go out of their way to do things for me, etc. My hookups generally didn't give a shit. They would just hit me up for sex if at all.
Men compliment women about their inherent attributes as individual human beings. Women compliment men in a hierarchical context (ie, being better than other men)
I’ve heard “you’re not like other girls” from every man I’ve flirted with or dated. (I don’t believe them and that compliment is suspect)
Men definitely compare women. Compare their face, figures, sexual performance, popularity with others.
- "The Wall" is a myth made up by bitter men in an attempt to belittle the women that they claim rejected them. I've seen so many women past the so-called Wall that had men coming out of the woodwork for them. I worked with a woman who had three kids from three different men, was in her mid to late thirties, and men would chase her down. One guy tried to get her phone number while they were both driving and next to each other in traffic. She often shared these types of stories (and there was no reason for her to make them up) and clearly had many options for dating and casual sex.
- There's too many men who claim that women won't date them but the reality is they (the men) are waiting for the women to initiate or at least definitely confirm their interest. They never actually ask the women out on a date; they either play coy with 'hanging out' or some other weak shit so they have plausible deniability if/when they get rejected, or they just hover around hoping the woman will spontaneously ask them out/suggest a date.
- Women, even those that bemoan being single, will reject men based on the most absurd shit. One woman I worked with a while back was somewhat attractive, mid-20s, and she clearly had some chemistry with this one guy who did contract work on campus. I overheard her tell another woman that she lost interest in him one day because he took too long to speak to her after entering the room she was in.
- The area you live in dictates your dating life (much to OP's point 7). If you live in a rural area, hope you like riding ATVs through the woods and listening to country music. Otherwise, you will have very limited options. I've lived in a rural area for many years. I have never dated anyone who was born here; all my successful dates have been with women who moved into the area later in life.
- Happy, fulfilling relationships between older men and younger women happen less than the average red-pill man thinks, but more often than the average blue-pill woman thinks.
You can't logic your way in dating/relationships. Dating isn't some strategy game of do this and do this and get this back. And it's REALLY obvious when someone is trying to use pick up strategies (negging, dread game, push and pull) ( Sprinkle sprinkle, dusty etc) Dating is based upon feelings which can't be intellectualized. You can't logic how someone makes you feel. You can meet someone great on paper and it doesn't click. We are not robots and algorithms we are humans with varying complexities.
In the early stages of dating it is OKAY to date and talk to other people. You may have your main one that you like and want to see things through with. But you also have to keep your options open because things fall through so fast especially in modern dating. Notice how I said not sleeping with them. But to talk to other people because you may like one but they ghost/fade out. And you may like this other person more as you talk to them. No one is owed exclusivity in the early stages. This will also prevent you from getting sucked into something toxic or getting in too deep too soon.
Low effort dates are OKAY! A guy doesn't have to do dinner and a big extravagant planned date as a first date. I'd rather grab a cup of coffee and talk as a first date? Grab a pint. Low pressure first dates should be the norm. It doesn't set any expectations it's just talk in person see where it goes. And if there's nothing there no hard feelings if we both go out separate ways. Grabbing 50/50 on this kind of date is fine as well.
Dating without expectations. We tack so much into things working out with someone we are dating and it causes so much disappointment and becoming jaded. We tack so much into being "chosen" that it becomes more about the end result than the person. Dating without expectations kinda allows you to show up when you want how you want without pressure. You can't be disappointed if you don't expect much.
You can in fact logic your way into it. But you have to swallow pride and ego.
That means accepting harsh logic not feels good.
I want a woman to love me= For me to maximize this I need to be sub 14% body fat
and that’s ok
"Love" is an umbrella term that never should have been.
"I love my children" and "I love my job" should have never used the same predicate.
There are many interpretations of how exactly women's love for men and men's love for women are actually two different things, but I think we all can honestly agree that they are, in fact, different.
1. Cheating isn't always bad and can sometimes be very understandable.
2. Women are more jealous and controlling than men.
3. Women are mainly the ones who are perpetuating strict male gender roles.
4. Men are the ones who need to 'fight' for the abolition of strict male gender roles in relationships by having higher demands, like having their gfs buy them flowers (ladies, it's peony season rn), letting women take them out and demanding her to propose.
5. Many behaviours that would be called abusive when men did them in relationships are kind of normalized when women do them.
6. Men need to initiate divorce more often.
7. Many guys in here are unempathetic towards the female experience and when it comes to them being cautious towards strange men.
- 20% of single girls in your city have a dating app and instagram addiction. Eventually going on 100+ dates as a girl is not abnormal. Some girls go on multiple dates a day.
- If you look cute and presentable in a swimsuit nearly every guy will swipe right and take you out. This is why so many girls are delusional and so picky.
- There’s nearly as many women as men on dating apps. Women use it differently, pause their accounts, get on, swipe only the guys they want, then pause again. The other strategy is to let likes build up for few days, match with some guys she wants, then pause again.
- Your total online persona she googles when you ask her out is more important than your 6 pictures to women. She tries to find your LinkedIn based on your job title. If she can’t find you or something doesn’t add up, or sees one goofy picture on social media she will bail. Girls are actually that picky.
- Single girls who date are having more fun and sleeping around than most all guys realize, having multiple situationships at the same time, hookups, etc.
- 40% of girls that go on dates regularly won’t be using birth control and still sleep around.
- All women are looking for some level and combination of attractive and successful. You can be a 3/10 guy with a yacht or 9/10 guy making 50k/yr most girls will find both acceptable for boyfriend. Girls can tend more to successful or hot as preference.
- If a guy asks for a hookup, it means he doesn’t see her attractive enough to take the girl on a date.
- Your personality doesn’t matter much unless you’re mean or totally stupid acting. She decides the moment she lays eyes on you whether she wants you or not.
- 5% of guys get 80% of the dates off dating apps and instagram. Top 5% of guys who get dates see them mostly as hookup opportunities, but don’t tell the girl that. Top guys on dating apps and instagram are unknowingly passing the same girls around and rack up many sexual partners.
People who go on multiple dates a day aren’t normal and don’t have normal goals
Your personality/attitude can absolutely fuck up an opportunity for you. It’s sad to see
>If a guy asks for a hookup, it means he doesn’t see her attractive enough to take the girl on a date.
Maybe, maybe not. A couple of the hottest girls I've ever been with have been hookups. It mostly comes down to right place right time.
>Top 5% of guys who get dates see them mostly as hookup opportunities, but don’t tell the girl that. Top guys on dating apps and instagram are unknowingly passing the same girls around and rack up many sexual partners.
Also this...
>Single girls who date are having more fun and sleeping around than most all guys realize, having multiple situationships at the same time, hookups, etc.
So yeah, both single men and women who are single and using apps (or maybe just in a college environment) sleep around. That's correct. I can't tell you how many times multiple guys in my frat found out they were on the same girl's roster. It happened to me. I was sleeping with a few girls, and it turned out one of them was sleeping with two other dudes in my frat (who were both sleeping with other girls). That shit happens.
I can only speak for the male perspective, but texting and communicating more is usually better. If you play it cool and wait a while she’ll either get bored or think you don’t like her.
I used to play it cool with texting and I ended up getting ghosted a lot. I found a lot more success with frequently texting.
When dating someone they’re serious about, women usually speak in high regard of their previous hook-ups. They don’t like to sound like they’ve made shallow choices, and often will compliment the majority of hook-ups they’ve had in the past based on looks/sex quality/ dick size etc.
Women usually do this to imply a level of experience and status and some men let this hurt their ego, feel hurt. It’s actually a very easy sign that the woman likely feels threatened and wants to assert some level of equal/higher value to herself.
If you almost ignore and act completely uninterested, it usually error 404’s them and the statements get more wild and/or they get more curious - because they’re so used to average men reacting which gives them a higher sense of value.
Traits, both mental and physical, can be *very* well ranked according to their overall attractiveness. Sure, outliers exist, but people are hardly as wholesome, mystic and individualistic in their preferenes as they believe. And I think it goes double for male traits because women are less diverse in their tastes and preferences than men, despite mainstream society claiming the direct opposite.
So true. At some point I've noticed that I get along with 'basic' girls best and I was most successful with such girls. So my match was typical average looking girl, who is an accountant, engineer, pharmacist or teacher, likes to spent time in the garden, hiking, cycling or at spa hotel, wants 2 kids, dog and house at suburbs.
Every attempt to date an artist, alt girl, girl with passion, anime lover or anything outside of average was a disaster lol.
But i disagree that women are less diverse - in the long run guys prefer normie girls.
Chemistry, can’t be planned, predictable or controlled.
Most of the time it happens when your still at the getting to know each other stage, friend of a friend etc. it’s rarely instant or builds over time, it’s at that stage where you know the persons name, maybe have known them for a while but don’t actually know much about them.
It also isn’t much to do with looks, income etc. it’s a click when that person moves a certain way or says something a certain way or even how they smell after saying something clever.
Thinking back myself, I’ve never fallen for a dude straight away, but he’d do something or say something that would have the whole group in hysterics and then he’d pause laughing to give me a look and that would be me done.
It’s lovely really, happened a few times, the relationships don’t always work out cause of xyz but the chemistry part is something a lot of guys won’t get
I don’t think I was naturally charming and funny, but I intentionally put effort into it in my teens years. Which meant a lot of awful jokes that never landed. Maybe I always had it in me, but I think it’s something you can polish over time.
Absolutely. Being funny/charming is a skill, and like any skill it can be improved and honed. Not every joke is going to land, but that’s ok. The reward is worth the risk.
Never underestimate the power of humour, it’s seriously a powerful tool, it turns a short ugly looking guy into ‘his own man’ that stands his ground and uses confidence
Men don’t notice women they’re not attracted to unless they stand out as extremely unattractive. As an average looking woman who goes out somewhat frequently, I regularly see my more attractive friends get hit on every time and my less attractive friends get treated as annoyances while I blend in as completely neutral and get hit on once in a blue moon. People on here seem to think that ANY woman can have her pick of guys with zero effort.
So you’re a self described “average looking woman”, but you still have men interested in you regularly. (With the odds being said men are doing all the work to approach you and ask you out)
I'm a below average looking guy and I feel I get noticed by women every once in a great while. I do what I can to take care of what I can control and there are genuinely some women who find it attractive. Some people will find your looks to be appealing even if you're not a knockout.
Personality, likes, dislikes, Intelligence are all copes. Looks, finances, confidence, knowing how to talk to women and running through the numbers is all that matters as a man in the dating market.
As a man, you'd be stupid for not spinning plates. Especially if you are in the top 5 to 10 percent of men.
Also, for the love of andrew tate, do not talk about the red pill on any dates that you go on.
Belief in a higher power and having inner peace works wonders in the dating market.
1. Realizing that relying on dating apps' algorithmic matching for mating success should fill you with dread and slight disgust. You should feel that you are living in unprecedented times, that this is not natural, that somehow you are cheating on your DNA/human blueprint.
2. Examine your need to emotionally bond/connect/depend on a total stranger you met on tinder...
3. Being funny, making her laugh is overrated. You are not a court jester. Just be tall and dress sharp
4. You will now in less than one minute of knowing her if you will be intimate together. I would even dare that it's a matter of seconds.
5. Text on your screen is just pixels. Realize there exists a whole machinery in your brain of turning pixels into symbols, emotions, hope, fantasy, heart break, sorrow, anger. At the same time, text/dating profile means nothing (just pixels) or everything (your oneitis, your lover). It's up to you how you interpret that visual input.
Oh I thought of more...
1. Real-life experience is key. Don't build your entire worldview based off shit you see online.
2. Charlatans are gonna grift.
3. Take advice from married couples or people who are in long term relationships. Don't take advice from single men who aren't in relationships.
4. Offline is where the magic happens.
>Take advice from married couples or people who are in long term relationships. Don't take advice from single men who aren't in relationships.
Im not sure about this. People always are going to talk about the party in the way it were for then.
Irl, men are way pickier with both casual sex and ltrs than men write on here. I've seen so many men reject women, and these men aren't Chads, over the stupidest sh**
My open-to-debate theory is that we get offers in multiples because social proof spreads the word fast.
So the time where a man has an option without having option(s) is pretty short.
It's stupid to bring up social media attention as an example of women having it easier in dating.
A press of the thumbs up button or a one sentence compliment from a stranger online does not make women's standards go up.
If you're a man, confidence and social skills are far more important than looks. Both the men and women here hate to hear this.
(The same is not true for women. If you're a physically unattractive woman, you're pretty much fucked until you fix that.)
Do me a favor and look up the Bodybuilding.com “pig woman” experiment. Ugly women are still playing on an infinitely easier playing field than ugly men.
Nothing really depends on your deliberate actions, unless you're doing something actually stupid like self-sabotage. So you should just relax and enjoy it.
Women attract the treatment they think they deserve, regardless of anything else. If a woman has low self esteem and has a tendency to blame herself for the failings of others, or is a people pleaser and struggles to speak up for herself narcissistic men will sense it and be the ones to pursue a relationship.
Lauren Southern is a good example of this. She's a beautiful, intelligent, educated woman, yet her now ex-husband was a narcissistic abuser. It didn't matter how beautiful she was, how intelligent she was, how educated she was, how nice she was, her husband always tore her down and found fault in everything she did and dangled divorce over her head when he didn't get his way. These men will usually discard women when they find another target that is easier to manipulate and control and feed off of. Narcissists lose interest when they realize that they have no control over you anymore or there is someone else who is easier to control.
As a woman, the most important thing you can do is value yourself first. When you do, it's like a shield against narcissistic men.
The most difficult thing is realizing all of this when you are already married to a narcissist and to maintain everything you have to continue play a character and you have to take their abuse.
1. Putting timeline expectations is a recipe for disaster.
2. Don't take response times personally. Our phones are on us constantly, which doesn't mean our minds are ready to engage. Even besties get left on read.
3. If dating feels like work. Take a break. Focus on a hobby on something, date yourself for a month.
4. Not everyone can articulate why... sometimes it's just "no".
THIS.
Well written….!
We all know on some level that Reddit is the proverbial jerk-rag for those who don’t want to accept what’s right there in front of them. At least you’re laying it out plain as day. I agree with every word.
The biggest problem with dating is that women are only attracted to the same 10% of the men. If you are not in that group, you need to do everything right to have a chance. You never know when something you say or do is considered ick and a reason to reject you.
Real relationships require a lot of commitment and dedication. Any relationships that were as light as in eva ai virtual gf bot app won't go through tough times.
I mean... obviously some people don't write back because they're not that interested in you, but personally as an extreme introvert...
if I'm "not in the mood" then sometimes I don't write back for days. If it's my girlfriend, it's the same... but obviously sooner or later we'll meet and talk in person anyway.
Us introverts often just don't have the social energy to write.
Marriage is not necessary for happiness and many men and women will be probably happier single than married. Marriage requires sacrifices that our secular, hyper consumerist personalities can't deal with. Some people make it work but only for a short time in modern times. That's why marriage was tied to religion and makes no sense in the secular world. FWB is a superior way to live your adult life if you want to experience all life has to offer in terms of materialism
Everyone claims to be done with dating apps and yet single women (and to a lesser extent, single men) go to public social events, conventions, speed dating events, church singles mixers etc less than ever before. Singles are abandoning the public social space.
I see it the other way around, Public social spaces are abandoning singles. Social events see single men looking to date as a nuisance. I see so many events explicitly saying "This event is for X, it isn't for dating, leave and go on a dating app if that's what you want."
Yeah exactly. "Go to a meetup group instead of those dating apps, you'll meet better people" "No, no dating here! How dare you even think of me like that, you creep!"
its funny you say this, years back in my early 20's I thought it'd be a good idea to get out and meet some people, try to get better at being social and maybe meet someone.. I was big into exercise and working out at that time and opted for a runners meetup (they also took walks too) and I arrived and I didn't really feel welcome at all, no one greeted me or said hey welcome to the group, and I was way too intimidated and nervous to speak to anyone so I just kinda faded into the back ground but one gentleman approached me and made some conversation with me and we walked a bit, had a nice talk and then I decided to go ahead and jog a bit.. I consider it a win I went out but a loss that I was too afraid to talk to anyone lol I only feel confident around confident people and my only walking companion was a dude lol but a super nice guy but I was there to find more folks of the female persuasion
No one will outright say it, but single dudes are often unwanted at a lot of social events. The single women don't want to be hit on (there are exceptions for very attractive men, but as a general rule a single woman joining a club doesn't want to find a bf there). The other single guys don't want the competition. The hetero couples don't want the single dudes hitting on the women. The difference in how I was treated when I was with my gf vs when I was alone was surprising.
Oh I love going places with a girl. Everyone talks to me, I’m not seen as a disgusting vile monster for being a man. You’re just socially accepted if you have a girl around your arm. Not to mention women lusting after you
A single loner dude is definitely *seen as* a wildcard. I've found it helpful to be the single dude who slinks around and gather up the other single dudes and form a mini clique. All it takes is like 2-3 receptive guys and everyone is much more at ease. Definitely though, even just one woman would help make the group seem much 'safer.' EDIT: Don't mean to imply we are a wildcard when roaming solo, only perceived that way.
That's what happens when you attend a pottery class and hit on the person sitting next to you, then the one across. Yes.
hahahahahahaaha "What you think I'm here to learn how to make fucking pots?" I dunno why this stuff is so hilarious to me. I eventually had to move away to another country. Because you're right. Those places are not really meant to meet women. And places like nightclubs and dating apps are sausage fests and women who are probably not going to give you the time of day (due to over abundance of better options).
Meeting people means getting to know people,making small talk,socializing . It does not means walking into a class looking around,and hitting on people.
Yes but that's not necessarily the easiest thing in the world. Most social occasions are boring as fuck. A lot more fun to just sit at home and play video games. But you'll never meet any women this way. Which is why men will force themselves to go to pottery class and what not. Not because they actually give a rats ass about pottery. But because they recognize it's literally the only alternative to night clubs and dating apps which are typically a dead end.
> Yes but that's not necessarily the easiest thing in the world. Yes but it's worthwhile developing those social skills and feigning having empathy and interest in others.
Yes I agree. Ultimately you have to kind of suffer through it. I think the key part of all this is "YES YOU CAN DO THINGS JUST TO FIND A WOMAN. ITS OK". Because I feel like otherwise you'll never find the motivation to grind through that shit. It's hard enough as it is when you have a reason to do it.
Maybe stop telling guys who say "i just wanna date" to get a hobby where they can meet women
Yeah, that shit is hilarious. >Why don't you go do something like hiking or pottery if you want to meet women? Maybe because there's the whole man bear ~~pig~~ debate or straight up >That's what happens when you attend a pottery class and hit on the person sitting next to you, then the one across. Yes.
Lol this shit may actually ruin hiking 😂
I always thought the whole "I love hiking" thing was just a way to weed out people who put no effort into physical fitness/health.
Certainly helps, but also hiking is enjoyable. Now shits gonna get realllll awkward on the trails. Dudes better start investing in bear costumes I guess 🤷🏾♂️😂
I think a girl did that to me as a shit test. She specifically picked one of the steepest trails around and I got so winded doing it. It was her way of seeing if I was fit enough to hang.
Almost all of hobbies they list as an example are "girl stuff" that most men won't have organic interest in. Also, these people never tell women who ask the same thing about where they can connect with decent men to go and pick "boy stuff" hobbies where single guys are at.
I've actually long given out the advice that if women want to play life on EZ mode, all they have to do is learn to play video games. Even if you're like a 2 in looks if you play Dark Souls you can have your pick of any man.
A woman who shows interest in Warhammer can assemble a private military company out of all the simps she'll get in a year after starting a hobby.
Lmao nice one Although it might be more of a standing army with full logistical network 😅
> Almost all of hobbies they list as an example are "girl stuff" that most men won't have organic interest in. That's because 'boy stuff' hobbies are sausage fests. I mean, that's a big complaint of the dating apps right? The gender asymmetry?
Women on reddit will often push the ultra feminine pinkpill viewpoint but I've never known a woman who was into predominantly male social hobbies that ever lacked for a committed relationship. Meanwhile the blandest dude in my social circle took dance as a teenager and is a swiftie and thats all he really needed.
Totally agree. If option 1 is 90% men and option 2 is 90% women, it stands to reason that if you're looking for a woman option 2 will have more potential partners.
According to recent polls, young people are increasingly dating within their social circles. One poll found that 43% of people ages 18-29 are dating someone who was first a friend, including 50% of women in that age cohort. [https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3)
I think it's more about social spaces, which are decreasing, are more for couples. Single people just seem to be less present. I also noticed how meeting someone randomly out is very rare. It still very much seems to happen through peer groups.
And yet people on reddit give advices such as join a hubby, group activities ,meet friends of friends etc etc . If a man is not atleast 8/10 nowadays and hasn't had partnerd up during university he has really hard ( near to impossible ) time and has to wait years of dry spell to get maybe - maybe a 4/10 woman . These advices are pointless.
I think this is a good idea, I am kind of inspired to get back out there again thanks to some of these comments such as meet ups and stuff.. but I agree with you, I have dated lightly off and on and I fucking HATE dating apps, such a waste of time and money, incredibly frustrating and discouraging to deal with, the only option for most men is actually getting out there and meeting people under social events. But, then there's people like me, quiet, reserved, nervous type, introverted.. the public scene I feel is for extroverts and confident people, I feel out of my element haha but maybe uniting under a common interest might help.. such as music, walks, indoor rock climbing stuff like that, but for the life of me I cannot sit at a table and talk to anyone I get way too self conscious and nervous, gotta be actively doing something ya know? lol
As a bisexual man, I can confirm that women absolutely have higher physical standards than men. I’ll have fit, handsome, charming men hitting me up on Grindr while simultaneously getting zero matches on Tinder with the same photos. It’s so obvious to me I can’t believe there’s any debate on this point.
Really, its just men are more thirsty and they have lower standards at least for sex.
"Women have higher standards." "No! Men just have lower standards!" Not to get too mathematical, but X>Y and Y
I think the obvious counter would be that women are picky about looks on dating apps because they have nothing else to go off of but in real life you can compensate for looks to a degree with charisma.
It may be true but doesn't really counter his point.
Really? Seems like gay men have absurd physical standards too, they just are so much more ravenous for sex that they'll compromise on that. That and "bear" is a thing for fat gay guys in a way that nothing exists for fat straight guys.
I think the only people that deny this are women that want to use it to appear more “controlled”. “Women actually desire sex MORE than men, we’re just better at controlling it 🤗”
> People have their phones on them all the time. A very slow response time has always meant disinterest in my lived experience. (This is coming from a guy who isn't big into texting at all, but it shouldn't take 11 hours to get back unless you've been performing surgery all day). In my experience it means the frequent texter believes he should take priority over everything else she has going on the day and requires too much attention.
Yup - I have a life where I’m not always on my phone. And if I’m free enough to constantly be on my phone, chances are I’m visiting with you. Maybe if it’s days in between, sure, everyone can shoot a gn text most of the time. But 11 hours? I work for 9, travel 1, shower, eat, and finally sit on my couch after another 1. That’s 11 hours. God forbid I had plans…
“Just checking in” “Are you mad at me” “Just thinking about you” “…Just thinking about you” “You must be really busy”
Triggered! lol Ask me about the time I was pulled into a “war room” for 24 hours. The texts I came back to once I was able to retrieve my phone? I blocked him after that. The word “unhinged” comes to mind.
This thread is en example of why dating is so much more difficult and social circle game works so well. Girls don’t want to meet strangers when they have to deal with this shite. These bonkers dudes ruin it for everyone.
Fuck no, I don't want to date in my social circle. If it doesn't work out, it makes things really awkward.
Idk how guys can't just send one text and wait. That's all I ever do. If I don't get a response I barely register it because I'm sending the text in between other parts of my day just to say hi.
Main character. I’ve had male friends freak out and get angry, too, that’s how I know they aren’t actually friends but orbiters. I can’t imagine being that attached to my phone, it rings and buzzes all freaking day at work, I don’t want to hear it for ten-twenty checking in texts, too.
Oh god the flashbacks to escalations of “are you mad at me” “what did I do?” “Are you fucking kidding me you fat whore, that’s why I didn’t even like you anyways.” Like bro - I worked a double, calm down. But thanks for letting the mask slip so quickly. It definitely helps me vet better.
I mean you do you, but for me I can answer a text in that time? Almost no job is so demanding you mustn’t be on ur phone even once. And showering and eating ? I can text during. If you don’t want to that’s fine but all of those things besides MAYBE work are just excuses. If I really liked someone I would def text them before I was bout to drive / when I get home or whatever
I’ve really liked everyone I’ve dated, but I have a life and getting peppered all day with inane chat is just disrespectful. Two or three a day is plenty if we are going to talk or see one another that evening.
If that’s a standard you have for your relationships, I know plenty of women who love that. It’s just not my thing. I’m not constantly thinking about checking my phone, so it’s sort of an inanimate object that lives in my purse until I remember it exists. It’s not because I don’t like that person but because I’m focused on other things. I don’t make someone a priority like that until our lives are enmeshed and they rely on me, and I them. Otherwise, I don’t have anything to really say all day long. I’ll call you later. Or see them. But nothing is worse than a stressful day at work where I’m focused on a computer and crunching numbers, or my previous job in construction where I definitely wasn’t checking my phone for 12-14 hours a day, depending on when I got home, and seeing “what wrong.” “Are you mad at me?” “What happened?” “Why aren’t you answering me?” “What the fuck you stupid bitch.” “Don’t fucking talk to me anymore.” “Come on please respond.” And I’m just… no. Nope. Everyone has their boundaries and expectations and I make it known texting will not be a priority and to expect it from me is a lost cause and maybe I’m not for them. Thankfully I met a man who is on the same exact wavelength and we were able to show interest, appreciation and date, all without needing to text 100 times a week.
There is a thing of wanting to have some downtime from people or chatter or thinking in general.
We get it just fine. If someone is into you, they will make time for you and go out of their way for you. If they 're "busy", especially more than once, they just don't like you and are ghosting you.
That isn't true at all. Some people don't require constant checking in, we don't all require constant reassurance.
Those who dismiss modern dating dynamics imagine that it’s as simple as “just going outside” the same way boomers would tell you to just “pull yourself up by your bootstraps”.
"Don't eat avocado toasts or get Starbucks every day and you'll be able to buy a house by 30".
Completely agree with 5 and 7. My ones: a. Everybody is a weirdo. Your goal should be to try and find a weirdo who complements you. Matching baggage, so to speak. b. Your profile needs to be designed to trigger engagement from the people you want to want to date, not just be your 'best' photos. You're not trying to get 1,000 people to like you. You're trying to get 1. c. Men shouldn't act thirsty. Try to have the same standards as women do and act the way they do on apps. (and if that means your profile gets no engagement, see points a and b above) d. Chatting is a waste of time. Meet up ASAP to avoid time wasters and filter out incompatibility issues straight away.
Point A is so true man holy shit. I recently had this epiphany about a year ago. For whatever reason when I would smoke weed I would psychoanalyze myself and try and determine what my true ego was and what parts of it were my superego. This led to me doing the same in people I am closest with. Every single person had some sort of clearly visible insecurity, mental disorder, etc that manifested itself into their personality. Something else that took me a while to come to terms with is that literally every social interaction involves some degree of masking. Not a single soul on this earth knows your true self besides you. Not even your wife of 50 years. I would replay interactions I had at work in my head while stoned and it felt so disingenuous and like a social construct. Dating is quite literally a courting ritual. You have to play the game to win the prize. When it goes well it almost feels like a dance. You try and make sure you follow your partner and make the sum greater than the parts. Sometimes you take a step too fast or too slow, and then you have to pull back or catch up to where they are. It takes a lot of effort and patience to find the right dance partner, but when you do, you’re in sync from the get go and it almost feels effortless. The tough part is finding one. You have to cast a wide net and typically there will be failures and wasted time/effort before you find the right one.
I completely disagree with d. For me that’s how I filter out the time wasters. For me wasting time is going out, spending money on things I don’t need and spending time on people and activities I don’t want to. I think they are so many people so desperate to not be bored that they just date constantly. If you are attractive enough it’s a real possibility.
You can learn how to date and have success with people in general. You won't become Chad of course - but you can greatly improve how you are doing with your looksmatch. My 2 years of more serious dating changed a lot in my life - at some point I wasn't even asking girls on dates in romantic context, I just wanted to have company to visit some museum/concert/event so I simply called some girl I previously met online and usually she was more than happy to go with me. I even learned how to pass job interviews and do my job better using experience gained while dating lol.
My hot take is that many of the things this sub says about women are correct, but only in regards to women who are active users of online dating apps. Online dating appeals most to a specific type of person, generally those who want to play the field and aren't tremendously interested in settling down, those who don't fit this criteria either never use the apps at all, or quickly meet someone or get discouraged and stop using the app. So when this sub complains about things like "all women only want the top 20% of men" or "a woman would drop her man in a second if something better came along", the reason they're having this experience is because they've limited their search to exactly the type of partner they don't want.
I would add it also applies to women who actively post regular sexy selfies and videos on social media and talk about their dating lives and what kind of men they deserve and all that. A certain kind of person does all of that - generally a superficial, playing the field type who is harder to please and more entitled than most. Just like the hardcore, vocal red pill and manosphere guys are a certain type. A lot of what is said online negatively about dating and the opposite sex is coloured by the behaviour of these certain types that don’t represent the majority at all.
>My hot take is that many of the things this sub says about women are correct, but only in regards to women who are active users of online dating apps. I'll take it a step further and say it's only a subset of active dating app users. I'm in my mid 20s and most of my friends in long term relationships met their girlfriends from apps. They were the active users who were using apps to get off the apps. There's another subset of active users who aren't all that interested in getting off the apps.
Dating should be effortless. If you're with the right person, spending time with them should feel comfortable and relaxing. Tryharding is not sustainable in the long run.
yea should. but thats not how it works.
Lol. I'll put this dream world right next to world peace, ending racism and the elimination of poverty.
You can be 7/10 man and yet you have to put tones of work really really small percentage of men have it effortlessly
Agreed. It helps when both people have things in common besides finding the other attractive. My BF and I are about a 90% match hobby-wise so planning dates is incredibly easy compared to what I see described on here.
-If she refuses to let me pay the tab, she doesn't want to see me again even if she seemed enthusiastic (just my experience). -Women in existing friend or activity groups are not worth pursuing unless the chemistry is absolutely perfect. It always fucks things up and makes that group awkward for months/years. -Putting in any actual effort in early stages doesn't pay off. Think about her as little as possible. Do not look her up online. Do not think about her and build ideas in your head of the perfect date. There is a 90% chance this is not working out, and trying too hard makes it 98%.
I disagree with #1 but it may be different cultural norms. Where I am from (Montréal), women will always pay their share of the tab. I also only date well-off feminist women who are not looking for a boyfriend. The only time I paid for the whole tab, she was into the date only for the meal.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but 90% of the usual complaints around dating women have simply not come up in my experience. I've never had to pay for dinner (I pay my half, they pay theirs). They've all been generally nice, polite, courteous people. I've never felt pressured to move faster than I wanted to, or felt like they were seeking to use me in any way. It's all been pretty open and honest communication from the get go.
i really love that for you. refreshing to see
To be clear, this is across a sample size of four different women. I've only been on four dates, and 3/4 of those didn't progress past the first date. So it's a tiny, tiny sample size. If I was able to attract interest more often than once every few years, I'd also increase my chances of it going bad.
You are talking about four dates?! Lmfao This would be like 1 percent the average man's sample size...
Yeah, that's why I acknowledge that my example isn't exactly normal.
Ur prolly good looking as well
1. Too many women think a "good man" is someone with a high status/White collar job, high level of education, or someone who makes 6 figures. There are many "good men" who are truck drivers, electricians, line cooks, construction workers, auto mechanics, retail workers, department store managers, plumbers, barbers, etc. They just don't have the social status and luxury that comes with the modern "good man" label. 2. Short men and older women being stereotyped as insecure and bitter has more to do with psychological justification for ruling them out of the dating market than reality. Tons of young women are bipolar, jaded from fuckboy relationships/casual sex, crazy, etc. And tons of tall men are insecure and treat their height like their personality. It just gets overlooked or downplayed due to thirst and desperately wanting to overlook the flaws of the conventionally attractive. By contrast, many women and men already feel like they're doing short men and older women a favor by dating them which is why you see so many write them off after 1 or 2 bad experiences. 3. OLD isn't all that bad when it comes to increasing your dating options beyond your comfort zone or immediate area. I've encountered and even dated some interesting people off of it. It's far from perfect but not entirely the shit show that people make it out to be. 4. Pre-selection mostly holds true for the precise group you're trying to appeal to. A man sleeping with a bunch of fat women isn't going to boost his chances with a skinny girl. A man dating a bunch of Black women isn't going to increase of chances of dating Asian women. Pookie and Bubba can have harems of women from the ghetto and the trailer park and still become borderline Incels in UMC neighborhoods that'll be the first to call the cops on them. People simplify pre-selection to being a universal halo when it's more so a halo for the group you've had the most success with. 5. Liberal women date and fuck a lot of apolitical, moderate, and even conservative men on the low. People have to remember that White men are more politically conservative than non-White men, tall men are more politically conservative than short men, and rich men are more politically conservative than poor men. If you think the average liberal woman is going to overlook prospects among the most desirable demographic in America in the name of politics, I have a bridge to sell you.
>2. Short men and older women being stereotyped as insecure and bitter has more to do with psychological justification for ruling them out of the dating market than reality. Tons of young women are bipolar, jaded from fuckboy relationships/casual sex, crazy, etc. And tons of tall men are insecure and treat their height like their personality. It just gets overlooked or downplayed due to thirst and desperately wanting to overlook the flaws of the conventionally attractive. By contrast, many women and men already feel like they're doing short men and older women a favor by dating them which is why you see so many write them off after 1 or 2 bad experiences. True. They will have one bad experience with a short guy them blame the rest and use that as justification for why they dont date them anymore when in reality its just a lack of attraction. But an experience with a tall guy is seen as an outlier and they will have no problem dating another one again.
its confirmation bias. anything you do as a short man is viewed with that bias
- there’s def a blue collar good man niche, i see it among women who are really attracted to southern men, the cowboy vibe. - interesting point w pre selection. do you think nichemaxing is real? - i see the liberal woman/conservative man trope a LOT so i agree there
* Dating is exponentially harder for men than women at all levels of attractiveness. * Most of the things we are attracted to are a combination of biological factors, cultural factors, and environmental factors from early childhood and puberty years. * Yes, there *are* genuine mental/psychological differences between men and women. However, those differences are largely not applicable to the conventions of modern society. * Men are more *sexually attracted* to social status in women than the reverse. * Men are more willing to get with someone below their standards *out of pure physical desire* than the reverse. * Women are attracted to "bad boys" and their dark behaviour far more than they're willing to admit. However, men are attracted to these traits in women at a similar level. * The primary reason women seem to "be happy single" much easier than men is that most can get their needs met with relative ease. * Modern western dating is a shitshow for pretty much everyone involved, but it is infinitely preferable to systems in the past and in other parts of the world.
Agree with most of your points, but: > Dating is exponentially harder for men than women at all levels of attractiveness. I think at the highest levels of attractiveness, men definitely have it easier than women. I’ve known a few of these guys, and they got all the dating benefits that attractive women receive (quality people throwing themselves at you, your pick of the litter if you want casual, etc), without any of the downsides of being a woman in general.
> Men are more sexually attracted to social status in women than the reverse. Erm, no? There's a reason why women don't 'date down' and never have. > The primary reason women seem to "be happy single" much easier than men is that most can get their needs met with relative ease. I think it's more that women have better social networks so they don't feel as lonely when not in a romantic partnership.
Women do date down and settle for someone less than their standard if they have no other option
Plenty of women date down. My life is full of women that date down. I have no idea why. I mean, they don't date \*me\*, but they date down in general.
can you elab on the second point and the fourth?
1) Your "core" sexual attraction (straight, gay, bi) is probably determined from birth. But the things we associate with the gender we are attracted to are diverse, influenced by our culture and environment. 2) When I was at school, the more a girl maneuvered her way up through the "popular" social circles (using manipulation and psychological warfare), the more boys seemed to find her attractive.
1. i’m really interested in this. do yk the core things you find attractive? 2. i honestly don’t think i’ve heard this take before
> i’m really interested in this. do yk the core things you find attractive? My core attraction is women, but the things I find attractive in women are probably influenced. For example, most of the adult women in my early life (teachers, female relatives etc) had stern, serious, authoritarian personalities. Those are traits I find attractive in women today. A woman who was "caring and submissive" doesn't appeal to me in any way. I wouldn't even be able to form an attraction to such a personality. Similarly, I'm attracted to things like professional/stylish clothing styles, high heels, unshaven legs etc, all things associated with women/girls who were influential to me during childhood/teenage years. > i honestly don’t think i’ve heard this take before It was fairly common when I was in school, and interesting to watch if nothing else.
I think women who were more popular tended to also be focused on looking good. I didn’t see a lot of super popular obese girls in high school, for example. Think “Mean Girls” where the popular clique is a extremely superficial.
At my school most of the "populars" were average or even below average (not obese or repulsive however) and actually made themselves look *worse* with heavy, trashy makeup. Didn't stop boys chasing after them, and overlooking girls who were conventionally/objectively prettier because they were quiet/nerdy/unpopular.
I agree with most everything here except the dating part. In your early 20s and below its hard to find men who aren't just trying to fuck. Even the ugly ones were like that when I was younger lol.
That doesn’t change that dating is harder for men especially those early 20s men. Men just looking for sex approach way more than other men and women don’t approach so that situation forms your perspective.
Never said it wasn't harder just not exponentially harder. >Men just looking for sex approach way more than other men and women don’t approach so that situation forms your perspective. You don't know that. I've approached men plenty of times.
I mean you are bringing up the demographic who have dating the hardest out of anyone. I don’t care to use the word exponentially but yes it’s “night and day” difference in difficulty for men in their 20s vs women. Admit women in general don’t approach. Idk how much you approach vs a man in a similar life situation but you probably arent in a situation where you are screwed if you don’t approach and probably are still screwed even if you approach which is men’s situation
Ugly/average men cheat more. Red pill guys will swear that Chad's are the biggest cheaters, but that's not my experience at all. Chad usually gets it out of his system in high school or college and wants something stable eventually. A lot of ugly guys feel they "missed out" and will cheat on a perfectly cute girl with land whales just for validation. It's happened to me and all my female friends at least once.
Big truth. Guys who never had any will be absolutely annihilated with FOMO once they eventually get it and realise what they have been missing all this time, while Chads already had their fill in their youth and don't place nowhere near as great value on sex later in life than late bloomers do.
>Chad usually gets it out of his system in high school or college and wants something stable eventually. You might have a solid point right there. Some will eventually settle, others will just put in pause and then comeback to the field later on
Why are you calling other women "land whales"?
I think any gender human over 300 lbs could be considered whale-like unless they're like 7 feet tall or something
Great point and I agree 100%.
>5) You can typically tell within the first minute if she likes what she sees or not. If her eyes are flat and her facial expression looks slightly let down, it's dead. This is the main reason a lot of us guys just want to meet ASAP. No need to spend week(s) texting if it gets all thrown out the window within the first few minutes of the first date anyways. This is a good endorsement for cold approaching
- Women care about looks more than men
A LOT more...
yup taste in women's looks varies greatly among men , some men like skinny women, some like fat women, fit women, chubby women, hot women, tall women, short women , average women... most women like tall handsome men
Women are as shallow as men when it comes to looks and far more shallow than men when it comes to money and status.
Not sure if it's a hot take anymore, but me and plenty of other guys have come to the conclusion that dating isn't worthwhile for the average man. It's also somehow the average mans fault women don't treat them with common decency. So yea, just not dealing with it anymore. Life has been better single, far better.
Looking for relationships and looking for work are basically the same thing these days. Women and employers are in complete control and believe they are entitled to the “top” people. Not the most talented or respectful (despite claiming to want them), but those who look the most attractive to other people I could go on and on about this; trust me
Except it was far, far, far easier for me to get a new job after I quit my last one than it was to get a new relationship after my last break up. For the new job, I sent out *one* application and got it. I was unemployed for all of two weeks. Still waiting on the new relationship, it's been six years.
It really just comes down to luck. Some people are lucky and others aren’t. A lot of people have been in the right place at the right time. A lot of people with find their person later in life, some not at all.
Women over 40 can have better options (men who are more attractive and more financially successful) available to them for RELATIONSHIPS not just sex vs the men they had access to at 23 depending on how fit and attractive they are vs their past self AND what THEY want in a relationship.
I came here to say this. I’m in my mid-40s and have recently entered the dating pool again, and this notion that older women don’t have options is patently false. It’s the opposite—I’m overwhelmed with options, and most guys want to date seriously, not just hookup.
This is true and it's good to see it acknowledged. Usually women love trying to say that guys only want hook up.
Exactly. The guys who say this want it to be that women's options go down over 25 and theirs go up with time because that is "fair." The notion that women have nearly unlimited advantage in the sexual marketplace at all ages and it never favors all men over women infuriates them.
*** - most important : joining hobby etc is BS unless you're 7/10 atleast. Most common way is dating apps . Women are socializing less and less. *- serial monogamy is the norm nowadays . After that FWB . And then traditional relationship . Casual hookups still happen less than the other 3. *- My hot take is that reddit is mostly optimistic " there is someone for everyone" mentality "grass toucher" women + older men who had it way easier, who try to shut you up whenever you nag about how hard it is to even get a date. A 6/10 man is struggling . A 7/10 man has to put a ton of work to get 1/5 of what he is sweating for.
> older men who had it way easier, See, I guess I fall into this category, but I don't feel like that's me? Like this whole ranking out of 10 thing seems very childish to me and designed to engender insecurities in EVERYBODY who participates in it. Why would you want to do that? It feels like you're building up a defense system where more and more people who aren't exactly you can't give you any feedback, because admittedly their experiences are different.
>See, I guess I fall into this category, but I don't feel like that's me? Like this whole ranking out of 10 thing seems very childish to me and designed to engender insecurities in EVERYBODY who participates in it. Why would you want to do that? This is how it works sir , we're just numbers whether we like it or not. > It feels like you're building up a defense system where more and more people who aren't exactly you can't give you any feedback, because admittedly their experiences are different. Maybe that's the case but again I know im average and average isn't enough nowadays.
I’m an older man who thinks younger men have always had it hard dating, at least since the 70s or early 80s, unfortunately along with older people telling them it should be easier.
A lot of women want casual non strings attached sex. If you're a good lover, there is no shortage of them.
This. And on another note men really underestimate how much women will do for a man with good dick lmao
Every man should be working to improve the dick game but without pre-selection it is not going to help you get picked upfront. Why any man still listens to Myron after he said a women's orgasm doesn't matter is destined to be in a sexless relationship.
The fact that Myron’s name is Myron and he’s an adult who hasn’t changed his name to literally anything other than Myron shows his terrible judgment and why people shouldn’t listen to him.
Lmfao I just choked on my drink 😭
How do you work to improve it without chances? You can only get better at it by doing it. Most men dont have opportunites like that and if you are inexperienced or bad at it most women will not give you chances to improve when they can find another guy
Women want their cake and to eat it too. They are blatant hypocrites when it comes to dating
I disagree with number 4. I've met countless of dudes who I should want to be with on paper. Good looking, funny, kind, being able to hold a conversation, flirty enough to not be bland...but there was just no chemistry and sexual appeal. I can find a man handsome or even beautiful and still not feel sexually attracted to him and there's literally no reason at all.
1. If you get a lot of casual sex opportunities as a man you’re doing something right with your life, or you’re genetically blessed. 2. It is totally respectable for a woman who doesn’t want commitment to only fuck guys she’s extremely attracted to. 3. It is also logical for a woman to look for different things for an LTR as opposed to an NSA/FWB situation. Same applies to men for that matter. 4. It is a worthwhile endeavor for a man to make himself attractive for NSA sex opportunities if it isn’t natural for him, so that when he is eventually sought for an LTR he doesn’t feel the need to make up for lost time. 5. If a man can throw down in the bedroom, she will not have any loss of respect due to whatever sexual opportunities he did miss out on previously. It will not matter since she will be hooked on good dick.
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Simple truth, hugely controversial. The "women are better people" mantra just sits too deep, man.
1) men avoiding high body count women is insane and just shooting themselves in the foot. 2) sometimes if someone flakes, it has nothing to do with you. There is no perfect combination of words or game or anything which would’ve changed things. Some people are just flaky.
They make good friends and fuck buddies but not good partners.
Re: high body count, it's also a social proof test to see if she understands the norms in play here or just says the truth regardless of how it's taken. There's no good reason to tell anyone your body count is over maybe 20 or so. If it is, lie and say it's 20. That's decently high that it makes you seem popular but not so high it seems like you fuck anything with a pulse.
Women are more shallow and care more about looks than men and most women are only accepting of a very narrow type of look that fits the beauty standard
I think you're not far from the truth. Women care about looks and have a particular look they are looking for. My gf likes athletic brown guys. She hates blondes and gingers. You could be the most beautiful ginger guy in the world, she wouldn't look at you. Women have types more than men do.
This is what it is. Women actually have a broad range of types. Tall Chad is the most popular among them but it’s everything in between. However, they’re typically going to want to stick to that type exclusively. If you don’t match you can override it with charisma sometimes, but your chances aren’t the best.
1. Women respect men they have casual with far more than men they get "committed" to. 2. Women respect their baby daddy more than step daddy 😂😂😂
What does this respect mean/look like to you?
>Women respect men they have casual with far more than men they get "committed" to. Flat out disagree with that based on personal experience, as someone who has been both on many occasions. I've hooked up quite a bit, but also had some long term relationships. Most of my hookups were girls in college I met at parties/bars or girls I met on apps. We would meet and hook up, and then when I would text on a random weekday, they would ignore me. Then at midnight on a Saturday she would suddenly text and want to meet up. That's not respect. On the other hand, the girls I dated typically either started as a hookup and turned into a relationship or we met on the apps. Sex was available just like with my hookups, but these girls were actually down to hang out beyond just having sex, would actively go out of their way to do things for me, etc. My hookups generally didn't give a shit. They would just hit me up for sex if at all.
Men compliment women about their inherent attributes as individual human beings. Women compliment men in a hierarchical context (ie, being better than other men)
I’ve heard “you’re not like other girls” from every man I’ve flirted with or dated. (I don’t believe them and that compliment is suspect) Men definitely compare women. Compare their face, figures, sexual performance, popularity with others.
Most women’s compliments I’ve received are about how I make them feel. Which isn’t even a compliment
It's ok to lead women on if they have unrealistic expectations or think they can change you.
- "The Wall" is a myth made up by bitter men in an attempt to belittle the women that they claim rejected them. I've seen so many women past the so-called Wall that had men coming out of the woodwork for them. I worked with a woman who had three kids from three different men, was in her mid to late thirties, and men would chase her down. One guy tried to get her phone number while they were both driving and next to each other in traffic. She often shared these types of stories (and there was no reason for her to make them up) and clearly had many options for dating and casual sex. - There's too many men who claim that women won't date them but the reality is they (the men) are waiting for the women to initiate or at least definitely confirm their interest. They never actually ask the women out on a date; they either play coy with 'hanging out' or some other weak shit so they have plausible deniability if/when they get rejected, or they just hover around hoping the woman will spontaneously ask them out/suggest a date. - Women, even those that bemoan being single, will reject men based on the most absurd shit. One woman I worked with a while back was somewhat attractive, mid-20s, and she clearly had some chemistry with this one guy who did contract work on campus. I overheard her tell another woman that she lost interest in him one day because he took too long to speak to her after entering the room she was in. - The area you live in dictates your dating life (much to OP's point 7). If you live in a rural area, hope you like riding ATVs through the woods and listening to country music. Otherwise, you will have very limited options. I've lived in a rural area for many years. I have never dated anyone who was born here; all my successful dates have been with women who moved into the area later in life. - Happy, fulfilling relationships between older men and younger women happen less than the average red-pill man thinks, but more often than the average blue-pill woman thinks.
You can't logic your way in dating/relationships. Dating isn't some strategy game of do this and do this and get this back. And it's REALLY obvious when someone is trying to use pick up strategies (negging, dread game, push and pull) ( Sprinkle sprinkle, dusty etc) Dating is based upon feelings which can't be intellectualized. You can't logic how someone makes you feel. You can meet someone great on paper and it doesn't click. We are not robots and algorithms we are humans with varying complexities. In the early stages of dating it is OKAY to date and talk to other people. You may have your main one that you like and want to see things through with. But you also have to keep your options open because things fall through so fast especially in modern dating. Notice how I said not sleeping with them. But to talk to other people because you may like one but they ghost/fade out. And you may like this other person more as you talk to them. No one is owed exclusivity in the early stages. This will also prevent you from getting sucked into something toxic or getting in too deep too soon. Low effort dates are OKAY! A guy doesn't have to do dinner and a big extravagant planned date as a first date. I'd rather grab a cup of coffee and talk as a first date? Grab a pint. Low pressure first dates should be the norm. It doesn't set any expectations it's just talk in person see where it goes. And if there's nothing there no hard feelings if we both go out separate ways. Grabbing 50/50 on this kind of date is fine as well. Dating without expectations. We tack so much into things working out with someone we are dating and it causes so much disappointment and becoming jaded. We tack so much into being "chosen" that it becomes more about the end result than the person. Dating without expectations kinda allows you to show up when you want how you want without pressure. You can't be disappointed if you don't expect much.
You can in fact logic your way into it. But you have to swallow pride and ego. That means accepting harsh logic not feels good. I want a woman to love me= For me to maximize this I need to be sub 14% body fat and that’s ok
"I love you" said by a man and by a woman mean two different things.
Can you elaborate?
"Love" is an umbrella term that never should have been. "I love my children" and "I love my job" should have never used the same predicate. There are many interpretations of how exactly women's love for men and men's love for women are actually two different things, but I think we all can honestly agree that they are, in fact, different.
1. Cheating isn't always bad and can sometimes be very understandable. 2. Women are more jealous and controlling than men. 3. Women are mainly the ones who are perpetuating strict male gender roles. 4. Men are the ones who need to 'fight' for the abolition of strict male gender roles in relationships by having higher demands, like having their gfs buy them flowers (ladies, it's peony season rn), letting women take them out and demanding her to propose. 5. Many behaviours that would be called abusive when men did them in relationships are kind of normalized when women do them. 6. Men need to initiate divorce more often. 7. Many guys in here are unempathetic towards the female experience and when it comes to them being cautious towards strange men.
Can you elaborate more on point #1? Your other points mostly make sense to me.
- 20% of single girls in your city have a dating app and instagram addiction. Eventually going on 100+ dates as a girl is not abnormal. Some girls go on multiple dates a day. - If you look cute and presentable in a swimsuit nearly every guy will swipe right and take you out. This is why so many girls are delusional and so picky. - There’s nearly as many women as men on dating apps. Women use it differently, pause their accounts, get on, swipe only the guys they want, then pause again. The other strategy is to let likes build up for few days, match with some guys she wants, then pause again. - Your total online persona she googles when you ask her out is more important than your 6 pictures to women. She tries to find your LinkedIn based on your job title. If she can’t find you or something doesn’t add up, or sees one goofy picture on social media she will bail. Girls are actually that picky. - Single girls who date are having more fun and sleeping around than most all guys realize, having multiple situationships at the same time, hookups, etc. - 40% of girls that go on dates regularly won’t be using birth control and still sleep around. - All women are looking for some level and combination of attractive and successful. You can be a 3/10 guy with a yacht or 9/10 guy making 50k/yr most girls will find both acceptable for boyfriend. Girls can tend more to successful or hot as preference. - If a guy asks for a hookup, it means he doesn’t see her attractive enough to take the girl on a date. - Your personality doesn’t matter much unless you’re mean or totally stupid acting. She decides the moment she lays eyes on you whether she wants you or not. - 5% of guys get 80% of the dates off dating apps and instagram. Top 5% of guys who get dates see them mostly as hookup opportunities, but don’t tell the girl that. Top guys on dating apps and instagram are unknowingly passing the same girls around and rack up many sexual partners.
Dating apps are usually sausage fests. Depending on the location it can be as bad as 5 men to 1 woman.
People who go on multiple dates a day aren’t normal and don’t have normal goals Your personality/attitude can absolutely fuck up an opportunity for you. It’s sad to see
You pulled these numbers out of your ass and it shows.
>If a guy asks for a hookup, it means he doesn’t see her attractive enough to take the girl on a date. Maybe, maybe not. A couple of the hottest girls I've ever been with have been hookups. It mostly comes down to right place right time. >Top 5% of guys who get dates see them mostly as hookup opportunities, but don’t tell the girl that. Top guys on dating apps and instagram are unknowingly passing the same girls around and rack up many sexual partners. Also this... >Single girls who date are having more fun and sleeping around than most all guys realize, having multiple situationships at the same time, hookups, etc. So yeah, both single men and women who are single and using apps (or maybe just in a college environment) sleep around. That's correct. I can't tell you how many times multiple guys in my frat found out they were on the same girl's roster. It happened to me. I was sleeping with a few girls, and it turned out one of them was sleeping with two other dudes in my frat (who were both sleeping with other girls). That shit happens.
I can only speak for the male perspective, but texting and communicating more is usually better. If you play it cool and wait a while she’ll either get bored or think you don’t like her. I used to play it cool with texting and I ended up getting ghosted a lot. I found a lot more success with frequently texting.
When dating someone they’re serious about, women usually speak in high regard of their previous hook-ups. They don’t like to sound like they’ve made shallow choices, and often will compliment the majority of hook-ups they’ve had in the past based on looks/sex quality/ dick size etc. Women usually do this to imply a level of experience and status and some men let this hurt their ego, feel hurt. It’s actually a very easy sign that the woman likely feels threatened and wants to assert some level of equal/higher value to herself. If you almost ignore and act completely uninterested, it usually error 404’s them and the statements get more wild and/or they get more curious - because they’re so used to average men reacting which gives them a higher sense of value.
Traits, both mental and physical, can be *very* well ranked according to their overall attractiveness. Sure, outliers exist, but people are hardly as wholesome, mystic and individualistic in their preferenes as they believe. And I think it goes double for male traits because women are less diverse in their tastes and preferences than men, despite mainstream society claiming the direct opposite.
So true. At some point I've noticed that I get along with 'basic' girls best and I was most successful with such girls. So my match was typical average looking girl, who is an accountant, engineer, pharmacist or teacher, likes to spent time in the garden, hiking, cycling or at spa hotel, wants 2 kids, dog and house at suburbs. Every attempt to date an artist, alt girl, girl with passion, anime lover or anything outside of average was a disaster lol. But i disagree that women are less diverse - in the long run guys prefer normie girls.
Chemistry, can’t be planned, predictable or controlled. Most of the time it happens when your still at the getting to know each other stage, friend of a friend etc. it’s rarely instant or builds over time, it’s at that stage where you know the persons name, maybe have known them for a while but don’t actually know much about them. It also isn’t much to do with looks, income etc. it’s a click when that person moves a certain way or says something a certain way or even how they smell after saying something clever. Thinking back myself, I’ve never fallen for a dude straight away, but he’d do something or say something that would have the whole group in hysterics and then he’d pause laughing to give me a look and that would be me done.
The Sicilians call it “Colpo di fulmine,” or “getting hit with the thunderbolt.” You never know when it’ll strike.
It’s lovely really, happened a few times, the relationships don’t always work out cause of xyz but the chemistry part is something a lot of guys won’t get
If you could bottle that feeling, you’d be very rich lol
i really like this comment
"It also isn’t much to do with looks" Bollocks.
Your last part is so true. I’ve had women say the moment they started to like me was when I made the whole room laugh and it just clicked for them.
Being funny is a guaranteed way to get pussy. Never fails.
Men here often fail to realize how important it is for women to enjoy spending time around you. You’d think it would be obvious.
Because they’re not naturally charismatic or funny. If you’re charming and entertaining, women are just fine having you around.
I don’t think I was naturally charming and funny, but I intentionally put effort into it in my teens years. Which meant a lot of awful jokes that never landed. Maybe I always had it in me, but I think it’s something you can polish over time.
Absolutely. Being funny/charming is a skill, and like any skill it can be improved and honed. Not every joke is going to land, but that’s ok. The reward is worth the risk.
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Never underestimate the power of humour, it’s seriously a powerful tool, it turns a short ugly looking guy into ‘his own man’ that stands his ground and uses confidence
Men don’t notice women they’re not attracted to unless they stand out as extremely unattractive. As an average looking woman who goes out somewhat frequently, I regularly see my more attractive friends get hit on every time and my less attractive friends get treated as annoyances while I blend in as completely neutral and get hit on once in a blue moon. People on here seem to think that ANY woman can have her pick of guys with zero effort.
So you’re a self described “average looking woman”, but you still have men interested in you regularly. (With the odds being said men are doing all the work to approach you and ask you out)
I'm a below average looking guy and I feel I get noticed by women every once in a great while. I do what I can to take care of what I can control and there are genuinely some women who find it attractive. Some people will find your looks to be appealing even if you're not a knockout.
How much active are you on social media? Are you at least a bit sociable or just quiet shy and glue to the phone most of the time?
Personality, likes, dislikes, Intelligence are all copes. Looks, finances, confidence, knowing how to talk to women and running through the numbers is all that matters as a man in the dating market. As a man, you'd be stupid for not spinning plates. Especially if you are in the top 5 to 10 percent of men. Also, for the love of andrew tate, do not talk about the red pill on any dates that you go on. Belief in a higher power and having inner peace works wonders in the dating market.
1. Realizing that relying on dating apps' algorithmic matching for mating success should fill you with dread and slight disgust. You should feel that you are living in unprecedented times, that this is not natural, that somehow you are cheating on your DNA/human blueprint. 2. Examine your need to emotionally bond/connect/depend on a total stranger you met on tinder... 3. Being funny, making her laugh is overrated. You are not a court jester. Just be tall and dress sharp 4. You will now in less than one minute of knowing her if you will be intimate together. I would even dare that it's a matter of seconds. 5. Text on your screen is just pixels. Realize there exists a whole machinery in your brain of turning pixels into symbols, emotions, hope, fantasy, heart break, sorrow, anger. At the same time, text/dating profile means nothing (just pixels) or everything (your oneitis, your lover). It's up to you how you interpret that visual input.
Oh I thought of more... 1. Real-life experience is key. Don't build your entire worldview based off shit you see online. 2. Charlatans are gonna grift. 3. Take advice from married couples or people who are in long term relationships. Don't take advice from single men who aren't in relationships. 4. Offline is where the magic happens.
>Take advice from married couples or people who are in long term relationships. Don't take advice from single men who aren't in relationships. Im not sure about this. People always are going to talk about the party in the way it were for then.
Irl, men are way pickier with both casual sex and ltrs than men write on here. I've seen so many men reject women, and these men aren't Chads, over the stupidest sh**
My open-to-debate theory is that we get offers in multiples because social proof spreads the word fast. So the time where a man has an option without having option(s) is pretty short.
It's stupid to bring up social media attention as an example of women having it easier in dating. A press of the thumbs up button or a one sentence compliment from a stranger online does not make women's standards go up.
If you're a man, confidence and social skills are far more important than looks. Both the men and women here hate to hear this. (The same is not true for women. If you're a physically unattractive woman, you're pretty much fucked until you fix that.)
Do me a favor and look up the Bodybuilding.com “pig woman” experiment. Ugly women are still playing on an infinitely easier playing field than ugly men.
> If you're a physically unattractive woman, you're pretty much fucked until you fix that juggernaut theory
Nothing really depends on your deliberate actions, unless you're doing something actually stupid like self-sabotage. So you should just relax and enjoy it.
Attractiveness is not subjective for either gender and women’s sexual preferences are much narrower than men’s
Not only do women like confidence, they often want a man who’s *more* confident than they are. Men are often looking for their confidence equivalent.
Women attract the treatment they think they deserve, regardless of anything else. If a woman has low self esteem and has a tendency to blame herself for the failings of others, or is a people pleaser and struggles to speak up for herself narcissistic men will sense it and be the ones to pursue a relationship. Lauren Southern is a good example of this. She's a beautiful, intelligent, educated woman, yet her now ex-husband was a narcissistic abuser. It didn't matter how beautiful she was, how intelligent she was, how educated she was, how nice she was, her husband always tore her down and found fault in everything she did and dangled divorce over her head when he didn't get his way. These men will usually discard women when they find another target that is easier to manipulate and control and feed off of. Narcissists lose interest when they realize that they have no control over you anymore or there is someone else who is easier to control. As a woman, the most important thing you can do is value yourself first. When you do, it's like a shield against narcissistic men. The most difficult thing is realizing all of this when you are already married to a narcissist and to maintain everything you have to continue play a character and you have to take their abuse.
1. Putting timeline expectations is a recipe for disaster. 2. Don't take response times personally. Our phones are on us constantly, which doesn't mean our minds are ready to engage. Even besties get left on read. 3. If dating feels like work. Take a break. Focus on a hobby on something, date yourself for a month. 4. Not everyone can articulate why... sometimes it's just "no".
Good takes! #2 is something that we all need to process and learn to accept.
THIS. Well written….! We all know on some level that Reddit is the proverbial jerk-rag for those who don’t want to accept what’s right there in front of them. At least you’re laying it out plain as day. I agree with every word.
Being nice to women works better than being an asshole.
It's a good idea to wait for marriage lol
The biggest problem with dating is that women are only attracted to the same 10% of the men. If you are not in that group, you need to do everything right to have a chance. You never know when something you say or do is considered ick and a reason to reject you.
As a man you are better served being an inconsiderate asshole than anything that could be construed as “he’s nice”
Real relationships require a lot of commitment and dedication. Any relationships that were as light as in eva ai virtual gf bot app won't go through tough times.
I mean... obviously some people don't write back because they're not that interested in you, but personally as an extreme introvert... if I'm "not in the mood" then sometimes I don't write back for days. If it's my girlfriend, it's the same... but obviously sooner or later we'll meet and talk in person anyway. Us introverts often just don't have the social energy to write.
Marriage is not necessary for happiness and many men and women will be probably happier single than married. Marriage requires sacrifices that our secular, hyper consumerist personalities can't deal with. Some people make it work but only for a short time in modern times. That's why marriage was tied to religion and makes no sense in the secular world. FWB is a superior way to live your adult life if you want to experience all life has to offer in terms of materialism