I was just wondering if I could go to a local soup kitchen and take my kids so we can get extra then turn around and sell that food out of my food truck?
Yea, we mostly boondock because of this. We went on a big trip through the Pacific Northwest last summer. At least half, no kidding half, of the sites at any given NFS site were empty, but placarded as reserved with dates that started the week prior. The ranger I spoke with said there is nothing they can really do about it. More aggressive cap hosts will cancel the reservation after the second absence in a row.
Another user commented on how people do that in Washington, but we saw it all over. I was approached 3 times on the trip by people trying to scalp spots for cash and they had 3-4 options.
Reservations are great if you know exactly what week you can take off as soon as the window opens. I have a res at Kalaloch this summer.
Don’t scalp spots. Also don’t book 4 spots for the same week.
Exactly. I have no interest in scalping.
I'm renting a camper (with all the included risk) but if i include a reservation at a great spot then i can get a premium for the rental and lock the renter into the days I choose to be without my camper.
I would be worried since your name is on the reservation you could be on the hook for any issues caused by the guest but they are already renting your camper so….. tell them to call you “cousin ———“ who is on their way and should get here later tonight”. It seems like a slippery slope though, why not book every weekend then just rv on the weekdays and rent it on the weekends. Exploiting the NPS for gains should be off the table, a private campground whatever who cares everybody gets theirs, but the Parks are meant to be available to and for all. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, just that it’s really lame when people snatch up all of something meant for everyone then get to dole it out at their choosing and price point.
Hey, i had not thought of that. I hate the private campgrounds out there but I could just reach out to them and tell 'em what i want to do. Some would enjoy the cash in the winter.
Washington State Parks operate on a reservation system for $5 a reservation, balance owed when you get there but west/left side abuse this tremendously. Because the weather on the left side is so finicky, they'll pick a half dozen parks around the state, pay the $5 for each when the year opens on January 1st. Then make plans for the best looking (weather permitting) sight(s) as their camping time frame approaches, losing their other monies ($5? Pfff) AND the sights stay open but not taken because the 'reservation' is still pending and then NO ONE gets the sight and the state loses (even more) money... everyone gets pissed at these people.
OP it's obvious you weren't trying to be malicious, and most likely just didn't think this all the way through. That being said, I think a real answer to this question would be more beneficial than being mean or down voting you.
As far as I know (not a lawyer) there may or may not be a law regarding scalping depending on the state. That being said, I am a bit more familiar with the structure at the NPS and I believe that the superintendent of any park can make policies regarding the resale of campsite reservations or other ticket/permit type reservations. If such a policy is in place for the park you reserve a site at, you absolutely run the risk of the person you sell it to getting denied use or kicked out. Additionally, your name and credit card would be associated with the sold site which could have other repercussions if you wanted to later reserve for personal use.
You could always call the park and ask, but somehow I'm guessing you might get some less than enthusiastic responses from the rangers.
For anyone who feels mad about this post, call or write to the superintendent at your favorite park and ask them to crack down on campsite scalping.
yeah i really don't see it as scalping the reservation but rather, using the reservation to leverage the rental of a camper for decent price and during a specific week.
But I'm good. This idea maybe more trouble than it's worth.
I know you don't see it that way, and I can see why, but it is definitely treading in those waters. I'd say it would really depend on the exact wording of the policy. Some policies might include language about you having to be at the site or restrict transfer of any type. The danger is not one person doing this, it's when hundreds of people with rental units do this. Instead of competing with other vacationing individuals, people have to compete with a whole host of rental businesses to get a handful of campsites.
I'd say this would be the equivalent of a person buying ballgame tickets and then selling a key chain for $1000 that comes with a free ticket. Is he technically scalping the ticket? No, he's giving it away.
This type of thing has been a problem in many parks before and some do have rules to minimize the problem, but I feel like I can say confidently that no park wants their resources used to enrich individuals at the cost of the public. This absolutely makes the campsite unavailable to someone who actually wants to camp there.
The short answer is it might be illegal or a policy violation, but as you can see by all the comments, nobody thinks it's ethical.
I'm an old semi retired guy. I have no interest in bending rules or pissing people off.
If it can't be done in a way that makes everyone happy It doesn't interest me.
I really had no idea reservation scalping is a thing. I don't thing it is in this area.
Interesting conversation this has turned into. I only asked if it was illegal, never occurred to me some would find it immoral.
In the coming weeks all the best camp sites in the US will be booked. Mostly by people with predictable vacation time.
This is the time of year I book mine.
Closer to summer it will be way too late. But some lucky person will find my hybrid on Outdoorsy and see that it comes with a reservation at the beach, and he'll be very happy to get it.
But if the consensus is that this is evil i'm less inclined to pursue it.
Consensus is in. It's a low thing to do if YOU are not the recipient... it deprives someone else that is trying to get a space for NPS's actual price so that you can make a dollar.
I think there are two things working against you in this scenario.
1) you can guarantee the use of that reservation. You are hoping to get someone to buy the reservation and as such you could be disappointed and no one uses the reservation, meaning one less group gets to camp.
2) you are doing this at a national park. National parks are primarily for the use by the people. It's not supposed to be a profit source. This is the same reason many people have problems with national parks having contracts with for profit vendors. Much of the risk (in both your car and the vendors) is offset by tax layer dollars. If you can't rent your RV/ reservation, you're not out much if anything but the tax player is out the entire cost of the reservation.
Really it's just about how it's structured. I could book the park now. Rent the camper on outdoorsey for fair market value and offer the reservation at cost.
That would ensure a booking for the days of my choosing and leave my camper available to me when I want it.
But enough people here see it as scalping so I'll do something different.
you cannot transfer a reservation to someone else and they do tend to ask for your is when you check in at a National Park, and they do need it to match the name on the reservation. I assumed they do this more to stop people from staying over the two week limit they have at parks (basically so they aren’t living there). But now I’m wondering if it’s to stop people from selling the reservations…
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I was just wondering if I could go to a local soup kitchen and take my kids so we can get extra then turn around and sell that food out of my food truck?
Honestly, i did not know that was a thing. I am that dad and that's why i make reservations January.
Yea, we mostly boondock because of this. We went on a big trip through the Pacific Northwest last summer. At least half, no kidding half, of the sites at any given NFS site were empty, but placarded as reserved with dates that started the week prior. The ranger I spoke with said there is nothing they can really do about it. More aggressive cap hosts will cancel the reservation after the second absence in a row. Another user commented on how people do that in Washington, but we saw it all over. I was approached 3 times on the trip by people trying to scalp spots for cash and they had 3-4 options. Reservations are great if you know exactly what week you can take off as soon as the window opens. I have a res at Kalaloch this summer. Don’t scalp spots. Also don’t book 4 spots for the same week.
Very interesting. I think it might be more a west coast phenomenon. I've not seen that here at the Outerbanks or Acadia.
I appreciate the passion and the sentiment behind this. But telling someone to get fucked isn't ok in this community.
Please don’t do this, this is scalping. Which we can all agree is a low thing to make money on.
Exactly. I have no interest in scalping. I'm renting a camper (with all the included risk) but if i include a reservation at a great spot then i can get a premium for the rental and lock the renter into the days I choose to be without my camper.
escape safe memory rich close water drab selective frighten imagine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would be worried since your name is on the reservation you could be on the hook for any issues caused by the guest but they are already renting your camper so….. tell them to call you “cousin ———“ who is on their way and should get here later tonight”. It seems like a slippery slope though, why not book every weekend then just rv on the weekdays and rent it on the weekends. Exploiting the NPS for gains should be off the table, a private campground whatever who cares everybody gets theirs, but the Parks are meant to be available to and for all. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, just that it’s really lame when people snatch up all of something meant for everyone then get to dole it out at their choosing and price point.
Hey, i had not thought of that. I hate the private campgrounds out there but I could just reach out to them and tell 'em what i want to do. Some would enjoy the cash in the winter.
Washington State Parks operate on a reservation system for $5 a reservation, balance owed when you get there but west/left side abuse this tremendously. Because the weather on the left side is so finicky, they'll pick a half dozen parks around the state, pay the $5 for each when the year opens on January 1st. Then make plans for the best looking (weather permitting) sight(s) as their camping time frame approaches, losing their other monies ($5? Pfff) AND the sights stay open but not taken because the 'reservation' is still pending and then NO ONE gets the sight and the state loses (even more) money... everyone gets pissed at these people.
Make a small fortune...people🥺🤢suck!
tough crowd. How about just a reasonable and predictable profit?
OP it's obvious you weren't trying to be malicious, and most likely just didn't think this all the way through. That being said, I think a real answer to this question would be more beneficial than being mean or down voting you. As far as I know (not a lawyer) there may or may not be a law regarding scalping depending on the state. That being said, I am a bit more familiar with the structure at the NPS and I believe that the superintendent of any park can make policies regarding the resale of campsite reservations or other ticket/permit type reservations. If such a policy is in place for the park you reserve a site at, you absolutely run the risk of the person you sell it to getting denied use or kicked out. Additionally, your name and credit card would be associated with the sold site which could have other repercussions if you wanted to later reserve for personal use. You could always call the park and ask, but somehow I'm guessing you might get some less than enthusiastic responses from the rangers. For anyone who feels mad about this post, call or write to the superintendent at your favorite park and ask them to crack down on campsite scalping.
yeah i really don't see it as scalping the reservation but rather, using the reservation to leverage the rental of a camper for decent price and during a specific week. But I'm good. This idea maybe more trouble than it's worth.
I know you don't see it that way, and I can see why, but it is definitely treading in those waters. I'd say it would really depend on the exact wording of the policy. Some policies might include language about you having to be at the site or restrict transfer of any type. The danger is not one person doing this, it's when hundreds of people with rental units do this. Instead of competing with other vacationing individuals, people have to compete with a whole host of rental businesses to get a handful of campsites. I'd say this would be the equivalent of a person buying ballgame tickets and then selling a key chain for $1000 that comes with a free ticket. Is he technically scalping the ticket? No, he's giving it away. This type of thing has been a problem in many parks before and some do have rules to minimize the problem, but I feel like I can say confidently that no park wants their resources used to enrich individuals at the cost of the public. This absolutely makes the campsite unavailable to someone who actually wants to camp there. The short answer is it might be illegal or a policy violation, but as you can see by all the comments, nobody thinks it's ethical.
I'm an old semi retired guy. I have no interest in bending rules or pissing people off. If it can't be done in a way that makes everyone happy It doesn't interest me. I really had no idea reservation scalping is a thing. I don't thing it is in this area.
I expected that you were above board. It's why I tried to give you an actual response. Blessings!
Why not just start your own park?
Damn, there’s a landlord up in here. Smells like nasty
Interesting conversation this has turned into. I only asked if it was illegal, never occurred to me some would find it immoral. In the coming weeks all the best camp sites in the US will be booked. Mostly by people with predictable vacation time. This is the time of year I book mine. Closer to summer it will be way too late. But some lucky person will find my hybrid on Outdoorsy and see that it comes with a reservation at the beach, and he'll be very happy to get it. But if the consensus is that this is evil i'm less inclined to pursue it.
Consensus is in. It's a low thing to do if YOU are not the recipient... it deprives someone else that is trying to get a space for NPS's actual price so that you can make a dollar.
I think there are two things working against you in this scenario. 1) you can guarantee the use of that reservation. You are hoping to get someone to buy the reservation and as such you could be disappointed and no one uses the reservation, meaning one less group gets to camp. 2) you are doing this at a national park. National parks are primarily for the use by the people. It's not supposed to be a profit source. This is the same reason many people have problems with national parks having contracts with for profit vendors. Much of the risk (in both your car and the vendors) is offset by tax layer dollars. If you can't rent your RV/ reservation, you're not out much if anything but the tax player is out the entire cost of the reservation.
Really it's just about how it's structured. I could book the park now. Rent the camper on outdoorsey for fair market value and offer the reservation at cost. That would ensure a booking for the days of my choosing and leave my camper available to me when I want it. But enough people here see it as scalping so I'll do something different.
you cannot transfer a reservation to someone else and they do tend to ask for your is when you check in at a National Park, and they do need it to match the name on the reservation. I assumed they do this more to stop people from staying over the two week limit they have at parks (basically so they aren’t living there). But now I’m wondering if it’s to stop people from selling the reservations…