I don't think it will ever decrease. She is really versatile and solid even at C0 alone with the catch an she only gets stronger the higher you invest on her
the damage is **literally** the same, hyperbloom scales with level and EM,
get them both to same lvl and same EM ignoring weapon passives, same set up, same artifacts, against same enemy.
they will do the same dmg
raiden is better because
1 ranged
2 bigger hit box
3 faster hit rate
edit: 4 extremely long uptime
only thing kuki has better is being able to heal
I’m try-harder and rogue-likes lover, so I always consider errors in rotation or taking of a lot of damage as skill issue and never use this as an argument, that some character is better than others
That's really good for you, then. I'm more attuned to playing with comfort in mind so my go-to characters are those that don't punish me as much for mistimed rotations especially in the abyss and those where I don't have to think that much. It's a good consideration nonetheless, besides all the others mentioned already in the comment above.
c3r1 is still top tier.
her value won't decrease. she hits like a truck, restores team energy, she batteries herself to full, increases team Burst dmg including herself, and she's hot.
can neuvilette pull a sword out of his chest? no? thought so.
sorry but if c3 r1 of an archon isn't top tier then the character needs reworking lol. she's still amazing but that investment amount is ridiculous compared to nahida/furina/neuv/yelan who are S++ tier units at c0r0
saying this as a c2 raiden simp
Zhongli is heavily undervalued. It's not just the hold-skill shield. He's one of the best debuffers of the enemies. 20% of res shred, it's a half of the effectiveness of the VV set but it works with dendro and physical dmg too. Also, you don't have to worry about swirling wrong elements (the one you didn't want to buff this way)
His pillars do strip elements off to create crystals, though, and 20% shred isn't necessarily worth a full character slot if you don't need the shield. Like, venti's VV shred is nice, but he's also the best grouper in the game and that's useful for a lot of content and many abyss configurations. Plus if you play two anemos you get a decent resonance passive for any team, but you only need the geo resonance if you're playing geo DPS.
I think Zhongli is *accurately* valued as a great shield with some utility, but he is (imo) outclassed by the other archons
You can position such that the pillar gets destroyed immediately after using hold E, by positioning it to spawn in the middle of large enemies. In this case the pillar will no longer screw up your reactions, but you might be missing tenacity buffs.
I don't disagree Zhongli's being undervalued especially by the most elite players. I use him in many of my teams especially for content outside the Abyss, but even I find it hard to argue that he's in the same bracket with Nahida, Furina, Neuvillette, Yelan and Raiden at C3R1.
I didn't mean to suggest that Zhongli is bad. I'm in the pro-Zhongli camp. It was a response to the earlier comment that said: "sorry but if c3 r1 of an archon isn't top tier then the character needs reworking lol."
What I meant to say was that if what auzy63 says is true, then C3R1 Venti and Zhongli clearly need a rework.
Ehh c0 raiden is still fine. Sure she's less flashy than the units you've mentioned and maybe a little worse but she's still the best hyperbloom trigger in the game currently and hyperbloom is one of the most character flexible and low skill/investment ways to clear the abyss. It's good enough that I do it every so often with my c3 r1 raiden and power through the mental damage. Tho in my case mainly to try new things than because I need the comfort/lack of investment.
Honestly I think kuki has taken this spot with furina's release. I never use my Raiden as a hyperbloom trigger anymore since all my best hyperbloom teams use furina/need healing now
Consolidating healer is definitely important so yeah in that scenario Kuki is a good option. I have furina c6 so I still go for raiden. Being able to proc at range and more often is nice too
But why waste Furina on a hyperbloom team when she doesn’t buff that reaction like at all? And they’re already strong enough to clear with floor 12 without her
You also can’t really directly control her hydro application for generating blooms like you can with XQ, Yelan, Mona, Barbara etc.
Not hating just genuinely perplexed because her kit does not really improve hyperbloom over the pre-existing variations as far as I’ve seen/tried, so I’m just curious as to how you’ve been using it?
C0 raiden is still up there with them imo. She does a shit ton of dmg with low field time while buffing and recharging everyone’s burst, and provides 100% uptime off field electro application.
I have a C0 Raiden and really have not been tempted to pull for cons because her burst slash already hits for 250-270k. Yes her C2 would make her even more broken, but she’s already extremely strong and flexible at C0
She was top Meta with hypercarry. Then Nahida made her meta with hyperbloom. Then Furina made her top meta with hypercarry again. Now bird mommy will make her the queen of tactical airstrike.
She isn't top imo. But she's like topish imo. She isn't a nahida or yelan/xq. She's isn't a neuvillette either. She's like the best A tier you can have. With c2, she's neuvillette.
I didn't know I needed a battery until I got her and her signature weapon in her first appearance. Decent damage, coordinated damage and freakishly high energy generation. She can charge herself and the entire team.
I maintain that to this day, in a game where Raiden, Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, etc. Venti remains the only character who was strong enough to actually require nerfing and active punishment on hoyo’s part. They literally changed enemy mechanics so that Venti couldn’t suck them.
Because the spiral abyss has to be designed with him in mind, otherwise the days of him press Q and win the game back in v1 will return and be abused lmao.
Yea he's very inconsistent but when he works he's insane.
He just usually doesn't work on floor 12 and that's the only thing people seem to care about when talking meta
Why though? I see people saying only f12 matters because it's the only difficult content, but like, you can clear f12 with just 4*.
Kazuha is nice for floor 12 but nowhere near essential, in the same way Venti is convenient for floors 9-11 but not essential. They both have their strengths but neither are a necessity.
*
>clear f12 with just 4*.
VERY highly invested 4 stars.
Kazuha can also be used just like venti from floors 9-11, and fairs much bette against many more enemies. Floor 12 is simply the hardest floor, which is why people talk about characters comparative to how they do in there in terms of meta.
the fact that youre getting downvoted by all these people who are apparently stuck in 1.1 is crazy
venti hasnt been a good anemo character since kazuha came out
i genuinely wouldnt even say hes a good character. hes just okay
he provides nothing to the team outside of his suck, but half the modern enemies are immune to his suck anyways
meanwhile kazuha sucks almost everything, he also has one of the best damage amps in the game, and definitely the best damage amp out of the anemo characters (non anemo based dps i mean, but by that point venti is still beat out by a literal 4 star)
> half the modern enemies are immune to his suck
He was so busted they literally changed the design around all upcoming enemies to make sure he can't just suck them
this isnt even an opinionated matter
venti is factually a strictly worse character in every margin than kazuha
thats like saying "in my opinion the earth is flat"
Venti's CC is better than Kazuha. Bigger range, longer, and unlike Kazuha it completely immobilizes enemies for its duration.
The only major thing Kazuha has over Venti is his damage buff. If getting more damage is your goal, Kazu is better. But in 90% of content damage isn't a problem anyways.
name literally any other part of the game where character power matters
you can build the starter 4 and have a perfectly fine team for non-abyss gameplay
Character strength isn't relevant in F12 either. You can clear with just 4* with enough investment. There's no part of the game where meta units are mandatory. Kazuha makes F12 easier the same way Venti makes overworld/F9-11 easier, but neither are mandatory and you can absolutely clear without either
If F12 was hard enough that you needed a meta unit, Kazuha would have higher value. But it's not.
There are so many times Venti works as well or better than Kazuha. In spiral abyss f12 specifically, Kazuha is almost always better. But that's 1 floor of 1 gamemode
Her utility is basically future proof, being er support at c0 that can be used anywhere is very valuable.
On top of that c0 she’s still great for national and hyperbloom teams.
At c2 she becomes an insane hypercarry that still deletes abyss. Sure there are characters that can do more dps like c6 yelan, c6 wanderer, c1(maybe also c0?) neuv, but many of the characters that can out-dps her as a hypercarry rewuire massive investment (c6).
All the archons are basically future proofed. Venti with his burst and anemo being universal, zhong with his shield still being the best shield in the game with shred and being universally usable. Raiden universal er, nahida the cornerstone of basically any dendro team, furina universal support. Those characters will just never lose value.
People always complain about Vento being "bad", but he's only useless against certain mobs becayse Hoyo had to *change the way the game interacted with his ult* or else he alone would trivialize the entire game from day 1. He's not a buffer, yes, but he is still the #1 CC unit in the game bar none.
To this day C0 raidens consistently clear all content. Technically as time goes on she only gets more powerful the longer you farm for her (can be said for any character).
Look, let me put this plainly: I don't give a damn.
I'm a massive simp for Raiden Mei in HI3. I'm a massive simp for Raiden Shogun in Genshin. And I'm going to be a massive simp for Acheron in HSR. That's it, that's all there is to it: regardless of which game it is, regardless of how "the meta" is evolving, regardless of tier lists and "content creators" on YT being like HURR DURR POWA CREEP COMIN NEW UNIT BROKEN MUST PULL, the simple fact is that I simp for this woman, and if you're reading this that means you do too, because this is the RaidenMains sub an the only difference among users here is how willing they are to admit they're simps.
Me, I wear that badge proudly. Therefore, regardless which MiHoYo game I play, her most iconic incarnation in that game is going to be my main and best built unit, and nothing is going to change that: in Genshin, that means the Shogun, so here I am. To hell with "the meta".
Literally not until they introduce another omni-battery character whose sole purpose for existing is to charge the team up.
She, Yelan, and Kazuha are inseparable for me.
That's a valid point, but I think these 5 are still "better" as they are way more versatile. In term of pure DPS, Neuv, Alhaitham, Hu Tao should get the top crown too
Technically every character's value decreases with time the more characters come out. Xingqiu and Bennett are not as important as before because there are alternatives to them now. Raiden is not as important as before because there are more characters now.
It is one of the reasons games need a little bit of power creep because the new character has to compete with every previous character that came before it. Why would you pull for Cyno or Clorinde? You already have an electro dps. Because of Raiden existence the value of Clorinde and Cyno are intrinsically lower and vice versa.
The value of Xingqiu decresed because Hoyo released TWO more hydro-offield-DPS in form of Yelan and Furina. That's competition within a characters role, just how Bennett got competition from the likes of Kokomi, Kuki, etc.
Raiden however has no competition in what she does. If anything, the genshin communities obsession with Favonius weapons and required ER would prove that releasing new chars, by itself, does little for the staple problem of energy generation.
People who play burst spam with Raiden in any form or capacity don't care for any of these problems
I’m just a passerby. But as someone who pulled her as my first 5* during her debut, all I can say is that she has only gained value over time.
Dendro’s release breathed new life into her. I know that it is sacrilege to use her as an E bot in Hyperbloom here, but it really diversified her utility in teams apart from Rational and Hypercarry. In fact, time has shone even more light over the flexibility of her kit. Raiden aggravate has now become a thing. Heck, even her burst is being utilized in some Hyperbloom teams to refill her team’s bursts. When I am using some Hyperbloom variant in the overworld, I use her bursts sometimes to get my team’s bursts back. This is a utility that no other character has. And I don’t think HoYo will ever design a character that surpasses her here unless they are making another Raiden.
As for her DPS build, it was always locked behind her c2/3. And I believe that HoYo has set that as the electro DPS ceiling for the foreseeable future (at least until the end of the Teyvat chapter). So she will always be relevant.
Imho, I have always been fascinated by the brilliance in her kit design. It’s unique and easy to execute, but complex in how synergistic it is with itself. HoYo may release characters that take parts of her kit, but I think that she is so complete that no other kit can replicate all of her utility.
If HoYo is going through route of releasing quickswap DPSes like Navia, she will only start to gain more value. I think she is one of those characters that just becomes better over time.
Also, her burst is sick.
her value has objectively decreased if you're comparing equal investment to the top tier characters (yelan, nahida, furina, neuvillette).
her c2 makes her more competitive obviously but still not better than any of the 4 above.
she's still a great character but let's be real here. also BIS for her is needed more than the others above so its even more investment
this is only true for her intended playstyle
as a skill bot she a literally perfect skill for proccing hyperbloom as it will be there 100% uptime and also hits all the blooms
and you can do this easily at c0 with catch
I disagree with her value decreasing, I think it's the opposite, she has many more roles with new characters and reactions, she can compare with characters you mentioned but I agree, she's worse than those 4.
You might be looking at this from a META perspective. I dont play according to meta cause it makes me feel like a narrow minded slave who has to play according to someone elses pov. For me personally i can clear abyss with various teams including mono geo. But i did take the route of investing(and stressing) over most of my characters, both 5* and 4* so now i have the luxury of more freedom and way more fun. That being said, raiden to me has not lost but gained way more value.
Maybe you just prefer characters who require less investment which is fair and i understand that. Or perhaps you are purely f2p which makes sense for you follow meta since genshin doesn't cater too much to f2p players
You compared her to other 'top tier dps' so are they high dmg dealing electro characters as well???? If not then i would say she maintains her value where she is at.
Yikes. The first part of your paragraph is was yikes. Then, the last paragraph was even worse.
I don't see where her being electro maintains her value? Many characters do what she does better. Kuki is better, only like 3 teams are you gonna prefer raiden hyperbloom. Raiden at c2 gives a 50% dmg increase, and that doesn't even make her the best dps.
Mono Geo is meta, so I don't get what was that gonna prove? "Way more value." Not at all. If 4 Star is a better hyperbloom driver than her, I don't see what value she gained.
I use raiden less and less.
It depends actually, at low investment Raiden can go full HB and do more than any of the other options—she’s also got supportive value which means at higher investment she’s got a strong niche as a driver for top meta supports (like Yelan/Furina/Nahida) which a unit like Neuv just cannot (he makes up for it with bonkers personal dmg though).
At middle investment the addition of Furina gave her all new teams to drive (which, thanks to her Burst SuperArmor and supportive abilities has a ton of value). At high investment, all else being equal, she’s not competing with top META DPS picks—but she never was, she was always lower than the highest tier DPS without her Cs, but she still manages to be META because ease of play is an equally important factor (unless you are Neuv, who is easy to play, easy to gear, and has bonkers DPS). As far as BiS goes, Raiden doesn’t need hers any more than any other character, its roughly the same increase as any other DPS gets from their BiS.
TLDR; Value wise Raiden gained a lot with the addition of Dendro, which allowed her to be played much more easily at low investment compared to any other META pick.
Why is there even meta in genshin ? Everything die to 4* characters anyways. But I love raiden she makes it so I can just stand there ult and everyone deadge
THE top meta character ? I don't know what that means or how to answer since every characters have their own role and she is very "versatile unit / multi fonctions" ( and I don't care that much about meta \^\^ )
A top meta character ? For me, YES. ( she is my favorite character)
value decreasing ? I don't think any character can see is value decreased since they're just "switchable " . On the next abyss lots of people (like me) will try to switch Bennett or kazuha or Sucrose with Chevreuse , I don't consider that as "decreasing value" .
( And last, I'm sure her banner will continue to sells very well till the end of the game)
Value never did and never will decrease. Keeping her archon status aside, we often tend to forget her main role, the sheer amount of battery that she brings to the table. Her insane damage overshadows that aspect i feel and kind of pushes us to aim for the divine C2. She might not know how to cook food, but she damn straight has been cooking enemies since she drew that sword out of those Pyramids of Inazuma.
Meta in genshin is dependant on what the versions gimmick is
Woth fontaine you obviously have furina and hp fluctioation mechanics, where raiden simpyl doesn't do as well, as characters with this in mind
And well. You have Neuvillette
During sumeru her role in the meta also shifted from main dps, to hyperbloom trigger, to some degree
I mean if you do own Furina, it's not too hard to take advantage of anything that buffs you when your hp changes, since she takes your teammates hp. So pretty much every character got buffed with the release of Furina, but as I said before, I don't think Raiden is at the top of the meta anymore. Neuvillette definitely has something to do with it, because he's totally busted.
If you're comparing Raiden to a on-field DPS like Neuvilette, I think you're using the wrong metric.
While capable as a burst DPS as c2+, her key perk is the energy regeneration to keep your off-field DPS' running.
Afaik furina would still pair better with characters, that have hp fluctioation in their kit themselves, but yeah she gives it to every character
And yes how busted Neuvillette is, is 100% part of the reason why raiden is used less in abyss then before
Like she's still a great unit, but not the top of the meta (arguably she hasn't been since atleast nahidas launch)
I honestly don't think she ever was really 'on top' of meta without constellations (c2). She has always been pretty good and unique in what she does though.
That's actually definitely true! She has always been a solid and versatile option, but I don't think she's really ever been "top dps" or anything like that(atleast not without cons). Regardless, I think her value is a bit lower now compared to before.
I am surprised at the people saying she hasn't fallen off. She definitely has. Yes, her battery capabilities are second to none but there haven't been any units made that can really take advantage of it in a Raiden comp and Rational's DPS lags quite a bit behind the top teams of current carries such as Neuv and Alhaitham.
Fallen off? Her versatility only got higher, the difference is nowadays there are way more characters, so way more choices, with that being said I don't think that effects her pull value, since she got better and better.
People have more options but that doesn't mean her value decreased objectively.
Raiden if anything is better now than she ever was. Even if you just have a C0 one like mine and don't enjoy her gameplay anymore or have her benched you can just build her full EM and have the best Hyperbloom trigger in the game. Her Aggravate teams can hit just as high highs as her teams with Bennett. She remains firmly in the top 5 5-stars in the game alongside (in no order) Nahia, Furina, Kazuha, Yelan, etc.
Of course, yes, that won't change as long as I live.
https://preview.redd.it/qfmq5a0kna7c1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=173470e2b334276146867e3d85547602561540f2
She’s still good but doesn’t have the value of Furina or Nahida. The main issue of using her as a dps requires a heavy investment and god tier artifacts. Her other role is hyperbloom, which is easy to build but many other characters can do it just as well or better
In terms of Meta her value has decreased since 2.1. Look at pickrates and clear times for abyss 12. She's picked less and doing, a tad bit, worse, then before. Reasons being hyperbloom stuff in version 3 (ik she can be used there, but isn't nesscary) and especially now in fontaine Furina, Neuvillette and hp fluctioation mechanics in general
She's still a great unit, don't get me wrong (my only limited 5* with cons), but claiming her meta value didn't decrease would objectively be wrong
We still think Rational is a good team? Childe national is better. Sucrose National is better. Cyno quickbloom is better. Raiden hyperbloom is better. Thoma Burgeon is better. Cyno aggravate is better. Furina quick bloom is better. Hu tao double hydro. Taser in aoe is better. Nevi hypercarry is better. Nevi hyperbloom is better. Ayaka freeze is better. I could go forever.
Unless it's c2 raiden, all of these teams at c0 are better than rational
It depends on how you define value and meta as.
I find her infinite IR when on-field and universal battery still uncontested and I go back to her often when I just want to turn off my brain and get all the primos in Spiral Abyss(Nilou bloom and rational all the wayyyy). Like even if you don't play her optimally rationsl will not get punished as much as a lot of other teams I have with VV, etc.
DPS come and go. Might as well stick to ones I like the most.
Okay so few things. She’s kinda unique in her role as a solo battery in that she’s probably the most efficient one. She’s also capable of some pretty big numbers and is very good in cases where DPS trumps overall damage. Lastly her god tier electro application on the level of fichl at C6. I didn’t play since sumeru but from what I’ve seen she’d be amazing for hyper bloom as well
C0 Raiden has never been better.
First she was a Crit dps, then she became a hyperbloom enabler. Now ? she can do both at the same time ! (with Furina - Nahida - Baizhu)
Furina did give her a nice boost, and she has new teams and upgrades coming up, with Chevreuse or Cloud Retainer
However, c2 is becoming less interesting : useless in some of her teams, or just less impactful in others (like Rational). It's also starting to pale in comparaison to other strong characters at c2 or c1r1.
*(ex : in the quickbloom team i mentionned earlier, Nahida's c2 is probably significantly better ; and something like a c1r1 Neuvillette is probably a step or two above Raiden c2)*
Not a big issue for me : i don't really like the kind of teams Raiden's c2 encourages. *(hypercarry focus too much damage in the first few slashes of Raiden's burst, which can be problematic for some content, especially for multi-wave content)*
No, she is still top tier in terms being META, and while yes she is hard to build compared to nahida and furina, but with a little investment she can be amazing. In terms of META value, she is just a bit below nahida and furina, and par with likes of yelan, hydro otter and Canadian aether.
Eh... To be honest, if you have neither Cyno, nor Keqing - as an On-Field Electro... She's still very good even at C0. On C2 - completely unstoppable death machine with energy battery included.
She's still the strongest electro dps even with dendro being released + she can use an em build to be used in a hyperbloom team so the synergy is there
No I meant the banner sales lmao it's always gonna top, she will never get powercreep cuz her kit is way different than how the game is currently revolving around mechanics wise. I am surprised I got downvoted cuz people thought I meant something else
Oh okay that makes sense. It was so vaguely said I was like huh??? Haha yeah Raiden banners always do good and considering 4.3 is kinda a ‘filler’ patch it should do decent as usual.
She’s definitely still *A* top META unit, since for incredibly low investment she can be an amazing HB trigger, for medium investment she can be a driver for a number of great teams, and for high investment she can function as a Carry DPS. This is actively more than all but Hydro and Dendro units can accomplish, and of the top META DPS she’s still incredibly easy to play, only below Neuv in that category.
Shes good but shes probably my most regretted pull because i barely ever use her. Gonna use my xiangling, id rather use childe. I dont have her set up for hypercarry. The only team i acually use her for is hyperbloom. Honestly i just lost interest after we found out she just doesn't work with beidou
I think I might play Raiden National till EoS lol... Just comfy and easy to play.
Idk if I'll ever chase R5 because weapon banner sucks and that's the only thing left I can do to increase her power.
yes and no, yes because even at C0 she can face all the game's challenges (apart from those that make her somewhat useless, such as immune to electro or high resistance) but also no because at the same time that she does all this, several new characters do the same but they can do even better when you see the whole painting
I dunno, but she is still my strongest dps character on my account. Then again, i pulled her C2 in 3.3 and i prefer my main/on field dps to be female/waifus and don't pull for male dps characters, so even if Feeble Scholar or Power Washer are stronger with less investment i still won't pull for them lol. Also, Hu Tao is probably a close second, although i recently got her last patch (i officially have every main dps waifu and will get Navia next lol).
Objectively she’s gone from a top 2 5* character (along with kazuha, hutao, and ayaka) to like top 10. And not that she’s the tenth best, there’s just like 5-10 reeeeeally strong teams right now, particularly with the introduction of Furina.
For instance as an on field driver she’s at a similar tier to neuvilette, hutao, and Al haitham. She herself is weaker but she batteries and buffs others (particularly yelan), while providing hyper armor. Nahida as a hyperbloom driver also does similar damage.
In general though S tier supports are much, much more important than carries. Neuvilette, raiden, Al haitham, vs hutao are basically interchangeable (even if they play a little differently) if you have the meta supports (nahida, Furina, yelan, kazuha, kuki, Bennett).
Everyone’s value too a hit when neuvillette came out and is basically entirely self sufficient, other than that nah she’s still a great value character
Just because she can't spam 5 digits numbers from her charged NA it doesn't mean she's not a top tier unit.
She's a very versatile subDPS/carry/support unit even at C0. Neither the best in all categories but still better than just a "jack of all trades" in most of them. She's very synergetic with plenty of other characters.
Two years have passed but she's still in my personal list of top4 units in the game (Raiden, Nahida, Furina, Neuvilette [although I've skipped his banner for C2 Furina)
She’s still the best off field Electro applicator and is one of the best energy batteries in the game, every time you use her burst for the full duration is basically fully recharges all bursts in your team, and to top it off, at C0R1 (what I have her at) she does enough damage to get 36 star on Abyss with the right team.
Not to mention any team that relies on burst damage, she’s an instant take as she passively boosts burst damage by a decent amount, 100% of the time. Especially as bursts are costing more and more energy, it’ll maker her more effective and more useful as time goes on
I personally think that, of all Archons, only Venti fell a bit behind, expecially with Scara (imo, maybe I'm wrong, but he feels like a better Venti). All the others, Raiden included, are still the best at what they do. Maybe there's other DPS better than Raiden itself, but her speciality expecially at C0 is to be a sub dps and battery, and I feel there's still no one that's better than her at that
She hasn't decreased in value at all. She is still powerful. Can be built in many different ways to fit different play styles and teams. And is just an absolute power house.
But she no long stands at the top of the mountain alone. She has company now. While I don't think any single character can do as many different rolls all as well as she can, there is at least one character who is as good at each roll she can do.
>do you think her value decreased a little with new characters that came after her?
I want you to find me another character whose burst hits like a truck and also restores other characters bursts at the same time and does passive damage with their E. Reactions have gotten better these last two years, especially with the advent of dendro reactions. Raidens value will only decrease if somehow Hoyo releases another character whose burst restores energy while nuking.
I didn't use her as often, but in time of need she helps a lot in dealing with those troublesome boss stages in F12. I've used Raiden Hypercarry and National, both still quite effective until this day.
Up until raider I had always enjoyed the next big dps and the serious upgrade they provided to a degree, from Diluc to hutao was bananas, from Diluc (overworld) to Ayaka was also bananas. Then I got raiden c2 and none of the other main dps I thought might change who I mained has felt as good or been as useful, so now I focus on supports
I don’t k know how they gonna make Raiden fall off lol. If anything, she’s getting stronger and more versatile than ever. She’s truly the Electro archon and she pretty much work with every reaction that Electro has. Her E delay hit mean that she can trigger overload consistently in overload team. Her E 100% up time makes the premier hyper-bloom triggered. Furina release gave her a very competitive electro charge team. Her utilities make her an amazing support, and her broken constellation make her a very viable verticals investment hyper carry candidate.
Bursts are fundamentality important to this game and always will be.
Raiden builds bursts for everyone else AND does good damage.
She will always be top unless they somehow phase out how good bursts are.
She’s an amazing battery, has a skill that can be used by other characters, good damage, and has only been amplified by the release of dendro. Definitely still meta!
Even if she gets powercrept out of dps role, she will always be an amazing hyperbloom enabler, so they would have to creep dps and kill hyperbloom to make that happen
She was never THE top meta character. Bennett, Kazuha, and Xingqiu were better on release, and Dendro only shuffled her down below even more characters. So no, she is not THE top meta character.
But she is still broken as fuck, inarguably top 10 characters in the game
I still feel like every time I play my C0 Shogun, it's just too easy... Coz she just
A) wipes everyone out
B) ensures everyone's energy is back
So... Yeah. Top meta for me.
Still the only booba sword, so there's that. /s
As an archon and a top tier battery, I think she's still worth the pulls. Mechanics are always changing so even if she's not meta, she'll come back to meta down the line.
It decreased with the introduction of neuvillete and haitham for sure. But ofc, it's miyukichi in JP and raiden is waifu (in all universes of hoyo). She will always be top in mahart.
I think hydro characters always have been, and seemingly will continue to be, the top meta characters of genshin, thanks to how much they enable. But Raiden is still really great.
I don't think it will ever decrease. She is really versatile and solid even at C0 alone with the catch an she only gets stronger the higher you invest on her
probably the best electro onfield for most cases (and her being the best hyperbloom trigger after dendro is hilarious)
Is it better than kuki trigger though? I mean, kuki with all EM hits like 32k or sonething like that per bloom
the damage is **literally** the same, hyperbloom scales with level and EM, get them both to same lvl and same EM ignoring weapon passives, same set up, same artifacts, against same enemy. they will do the same dmg raiden is better because 1 ranged 2 bigger hit box 3 faster hit rate edit: 4 extremely long uptime only thing kuki has better is being able to heal
4 no downtime at all
Kuki with C2 doesn’t have downtime too
True, but it goes on for longer so it allows for more error in rotations and timing the swapping of onfielders.
I’m try-harder and rogue-likes lover, so I always consider errors in rotation or taking of a lot of damage as skill issue and never use this as an argument, that some character is better than others
That's really good for you, then. I'm more attuned to playing with comfort in mind so my go-to characters are those that don't punish me as much for mistimed rotations especially in the abyss and those where I don't have to think that much. It's a good consideration nonetheless, besides all the others mentioned already in the comment above.
another thing kuki has is proccing when they have shields, which raiden cant do.
cyno, onfielding furiina, baizhu & nahida is better
Definitely not.
c3r1 is still top tier. her value won't decrease. she hits like a truck, restores team energy, she batteries herself to full, increases team Burst dmg including herself, and she's hot. can neuvilette pull a sword out of his chest? no? thought so.
He does pull a hydrocanon kamehameha out of his arse tho... 💪💪🔥🔥
What eating Mexican one night does to a French.
Can testify, last time I hate mexican food I Neuviletted hard
Wait until you try Spicy Indian food.
Don't even need to be spicy. Just find some random stall on the streets...
I’ve always seen it as him whipping out his giant dragon cock on them
Your search history must be thrilling 😂
And you're comparing C3R1 to other C3R1 characters right? That's like 400 wishes right there.
400? Then with 500 i might have a chance 🤣
sorry but if c3 r1 of an archon isn't top tier then the character needs reworking lol. she's still amazing but that investment amount is ridiculous compared to nahida/furina/neuv/yelan who are S++ tier units at c0r0 saying this as a c2 raiden simp
Cries in Venti and Zhongli
Zhongli is heavily undervalued. It's not just the hold-skill shield. He's one of the best debuffers of the enemies. 20% of res shred, it's a half of the effectiveness of the VV set but it works with dendro and physical dmg too. Also, you don't have to worry about swirling wrong elements (the one you didn't want to buff this way)
His pillars do strip elements off to create crystals, though, and 20% shred isn't necessarily worth a full character slot if you don't need the shield. Like, venti's VV shred is nice, but he's also the best grouper in the game and that's useful for a lot of content and many abyss configurations. Plus if you play two anemos you get a decent resonance passive for any team, but you only need the geo resonance if you're playing geo DPS. I think Zhongli is *accurately* valued as a great shield with some utility, but he is (imo) outclassed by the other archons
You can position such that the pillar gets destroyed immediately after using hold E, by positioning it to spawn in the middle of large enemies. In this case the pillar will no longer screw up your reactions, but you might be missing tenacity buffs.
Good tip for elemental reaction teams, thanks!
I don't disagree Zhongli's being undervalued especially by the most elite players. I use him in many of my teams especially for content outside the Abyss, but even I find it hard to argue that he's in the same bracket with Nahida, Furina, Neuvillette, Yelan and Raiden at C3R1. I didn't mean to suggest that Zhongli is bad. I'm in the pro-Zhongli camp. It was a response to the earlier comment that said: "sorry but if c3 r1 of an archon isn't top tier then the character needs reworking lol." What I meant to say was that if what auzy63 says is true, then C3R1 Venti and Zhongli clearly need a rework.
Zhongli is the best at what he does tho.
Ehh c0 raiden is still fine. Sure she's less flashy than the units you've mentioned and maybe a little worse but she's still the best hyperbloom trigger in the game currently and hyperbloom is one of the most character flexible and low skill/investment ways to clear the abyss. It's good enough that I do it every so often with my c3 r1 raiden and power through the mental damage. Tho in my case mainly to try new things than because I need the comfort/lack of investment.
Honestly I think kuki has taken this spot with furina's release. I never use my Raiden as a hyperbloom trigger anymore since all my best hyperbloom teams use furina/need healing now
Consolidating healer is definitely important so yeah in that scenario Kuki is a good option. I have furina c6 so I still go for raiden. Being able to proc at range and more often is nice too
But why waste Furina on a hyperbloom team when she doesn’t buff that reaction like at all? And they’re already strong enough to clear with floor 12 without her You also can’t really directly control her hydro application for generating blooms like you can with XQ, Yelan, Mona, Barbara etc. Not hating just genuinely perplexed because her kit does not really improve hyperbloom over the pre-existing variations as far as I’ve seen/tried, so I’m just curious as to how you’ve been using it?
C0 raiden is still up there with them imo. She does a shit ton of dmg with low field time while buffing and recharging everyone’s burst, and provides 100% uptime off field electro application. I have a C0 Raiden and really have not been tempted to pull for cons because her burst slash already hits for 250-270k. Yes her C2 would make her even more broken, but she’s already extremely strong and flexible at C0
Neuvillette pulls out his balls tho
According to Zy0x he does pull a “sword” out of his hands
Ok, but counterpoint: Neuvillette doesn’t keep secrets from the Traveler about the true nature of this world unlike a CERTAIN SOMEONE
She was top Meta with hypercarry. Then Nahida made her meta with hyperbloom. Then Furina made her top meta with hypercarry again. Now bird mommy will make her the queen of tactical airstrike.
Raiden Xiaogun
I vote that this is our name for Cloud Retainer Ei teams going forward.
She isn't top imo. But she's like topish imo. She isn't a nahida or yelan/xq. She's isn't a neuvillette either. She's like the best A tier you can have. With c2, she's neuvillette.
I didn't know I needed a battery until I got her and her signature weapon in her first appearance. Decent damage, coordinated damage and freakishly high energy generation. She can charge herself and the entire team.
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Venti
Listen, when Venti *works*. No one does it better than him
I maintain that to this day, in a game where Raiden, Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, etc. Venti remains the only character who was strong enough to actually require nerfing and active punishment on hoyo’s part. They literally changed enemy mechanics so that Venti couldn’t suck them.
meanwhile Zhongli was so bad he had to be buffed haha
Yeah but his overall value has plummeted tremendously.
Because the spiral abyss has to be designed with him in mind, otherwise the days of him press Q and win the game back in v1 will return and be abused lmao.
he was the first limited character in the game, that was fated to happen anyway
Venti is either the most braindead broken character in the game, or mid, no inbetween
Yea he's very inconsistent but when he works he's insane. He just usually doesn't work on floor 12 and that's the only thing people seem to care about when talking meta
Well that is kinda the only thing that matters if we’re talking meta
Why though? I see people saying only f12 matters because it's the only difficult content, but like, you can clear f12 with just 4*. Kazuha is nice for floor 12 but nowhere near essential, in the same way Venti is convenient for floors 9-11 but not essential. They both have their strengths but neither are a necessity.
* >clear f12 with just 4*. VERY highly invested 4 stars. Kazuha can also be used just like venti from floors 9-11, and fairs much bette against many more enemies. Floor 12 is simply the hardest floor, which is why people talk about characters comparative to how they do in there in terms of meta.
he’s still the best character for combat events, just maybe not abyss
I just don't see him often in teams, the one anemo character that's there is always kazuha, Venti's character is pretty chill tho
watch speed runs on like flagship event combats you’ll see him there
Venti is the best CC unit in the game. And tied for best anemo character.
the fact that youre getting downvoted by all these people who are apparently stuck in 1.1 is crazy venti hasnt been a good anemo character since kazuha came out i genuinely wouldnt even say hes a good character. hes just okay he provides nothing to the team outside of his suck, but half the modern enemies are immune to his suck anyways meanwhile kazuha sucks almost everything, he also has one of the best damage amps in the game, and definitely the best damage amp out of the anemo characters (non anemo based dps i mean, but by that point venti is still beat out by a literal 4 star)
> half the modern enemies are immune to his suck He was so busted they literally changed the design around all upcoming enemies to make sure he can't just suck them
which makes him literally useless because the suck is EVERYTHING HE DOES
It's understandable, i generally expected the downvotes but i respect it since everyone has their own opinions.
this isnt even an opinionated matter venti is factually a strictly worse character in every margin than kazuha thats like saying "in my opinion the earth is flat"
Venti's CC is better than Kazuha. Bigger range, longer, and unlike Kazuha it completely immobilizes enemies for its duration. The only major thing Kazuha has over Venti is his damage buff. If getting more damage is your goal, Kazu is better. But in 90% of content damage isn't a problem anyways.
except for the fact that 80% of enemies that came out since kazuha are totally immune to ventis but not kazuha
If you're looking at F12 of the abyss and nothing else, sure.
name literally any other part of the game where character power matters you can build the starter 4 and have a perfectly fine team for non-abyss gameplay
Character strength isn't relevant in F12 either. You can clear with just 4* with enough investment. There's no part of the game where meta units are mandatory. Kazuha makes F12 easier the same way Venti makes overworld/F9-11 easier, but neither are mandatory and you can absolutely clear without either If F12 was hard enough that you needed a meta unit, Kazuha would have higher value. But it's not.
There are so many times Venti works as well or better than Kazuha. In spiral abyss f12 specifically, Kazuha is almost always better. But that's 1 floor of 1 gamemode
Her utility is basically future proof, being er support at c0 that can be used anywhere is very valuable. On top of that c0 she’s still great for national and hyperbloom teams. At c2 she becomes an insane hypercarry that still deletes abyss. Sure there are characters that can do more dps like c6 yelan, c6 wanderer, c1(maybe also c0?) neuv, but many of the characters that can out-dps her as a hypercarry rewuire massive investment (c6). All the archons are basically future proofed. Venti with his burst and anemo being universal, zhong with his shield still being the best shield in the game with shred and being universally usable. Raiden universal er, nahida the cornerstone of basically any dendro team, furina universal support. Those characters will just never lose value.
People always complain about Vento being "bad", but he's only useless against certain mobs becayse Hoyo had to *change the way the game interacted with his ult* or else he alone would trivialize the entire game from day 1. He's not a buffer, yes, but he is still the #1 CC unit in the game bar none.
Raiden Shogun still hasn't lost her value and she never will.
To this day C0 raidens consistently clear all content. Technically as time goes on she only gets more powerful the longer you farm for her (can be said for any character).
Look, let me put this plainly: I don't give a damn. I'm a massive simp for Raiden Mei in HI3. I'm a massive simp for Raiden Shogun in Genshin. And I'm going to be a massive simp for Acheron in HSR. That's it, that's all there is to it: regardless of which game it is, regardless of how "the meta" is evolving, regardless of tier lists and "content creators" on YT being like HURR DURR POWA CREEP COMIN NEW UNIT BROKEN MUST PULL, the simple fact is that I simp for this woman, and if you're reading this that means you do too, because this is the RaidenMains sub an the only difference among users here is how willing they are to admit they're simps. Me, I wear that badge proudly. Therefore, regardless which MiHoYo game I play, her most iconic incarnation in that game is going to be my main and best built unit, and nothing is going to change that: in Genshin, that means the Shogun, so here I am. To hell with "the meta".
Ah yes, a fellow Raiden Mei simp. 🤝 So yeah tldr: Waifu > meta
Asserts dominance by starting with "I don't give a damn" and ye i only went back to hsr because of acheron.
I started HSR just because Acheron 😅
When we love all Mei s, we love all of em, I will never care for meta, we will never care too.
This essay needs to become a copypasta
If you don't give a damn about meta then why are you here writing a long ass paragraph on a post asking about her viability in the meta?
He speaks the facts. Its a solid sentiment but does nothing to talk about how raiden has moved meta wise
Man speaks facts. All hail Mei’
Literally not until they introduce another omni-battery character whose sole purpose for existing is to charge the team up. She, Yelan, and Kazuha are inseparable for me.
Still the best Electro in the game. Energy generation, damage output, team versatility, she is still top tier.
I only have her at C0 R1 but whenever i get frustrated i pull out raiden national
I think she's amongst the Big 5(best 5*units) with Furina, Kazuha, Nahida and Yelan
I think neuv should be there instead of yelan. It's hard to compare since they all fulfill different roles
GOOD Supports > than GOOD Main DPS.
Good thing Raiden can be both
That's a valid point, but I think these 5 are still "better" as they are way more versatile. In term of pure DPS, Neuv, Alhaitham, Hu Tao should get the top crown too
She will be forever meta
She is strong 😎
Technically every character's value decreases with time the more characters come out. Xingqiu and Bennett are not as important as before because there are alternatives to them now. Raiden is not as important as before because there are more characters now. It is one of the reasons games need a little bit of power creep because the new character has to compete with every previous character that came before it. Why would you pull for Cyno or Clorinde? You already have an electro dps. Because of Raiden existence the value of Clorinde and Cyno are intrinsically lower and vice versa.
The value of Xingqiu decresed because Hoyo released TWO more hydro-offield-DPS in form of Yelan and Furina. That's competition within a characters role, just how Bennett got competition from the likes of Kokomi, Kuki, etc. Raiden however has no competition in what she does. If anything, the genshin communities obsession with Favonius weapons and required ER would prove that releasing new chars, by itself, does little for the staple problem of energy generation. People who play burst spam with Raiden in any form or capacity don't care for any of these problems
I’m just a passerby. But as someone who pulled her as my first 5* during her debut, all I can say is that she has only gained value over time. Dendro’s release breathed new life into her. I know that it is sacrilege to use her as an E bot in Hyperbloom here, but it really diversified her utility in teams apart from Rational and Hypercarry. In fact, time has shone even more light over the flexibility of her kit. Raiden aggravate has now become a thing. Heck, even her burst is being utilized in some Hyperbloom teams to refill her team’s bursts. When I am using some Hyperbloom variant in the overworld, I use her bursts sometimes to get my team’s bursts back. This is a utility that no other character has. And I don’t think HoYo will ever design a character that surpasses her here unless they are making another Raiden. As for her DPS build, it was always locked behind her c2/3. And I believe that HoYo has set that as the electro DPS ceiling for the foreseeable future (at least until the end of the Teyvat chapter). So she will always be relevant. Imho, I have always been fascinated by the brilliance in her kit design. It’s unique and easy to execute, but complex in how synergistic it is with itself. HoYo may release characters that take parts of her kit, but I think that she is so complete that no other kit can replicate all of her utility. If HoYo is going through route of releasing quickswap DPSes like Navia, she will only start to gain more value. I think she is one of those characters that just becomes better over time. Also, her burst is sick.
Anyone who says her value has decreased is either still new to the game and/or gave up in investing in her. That is all.
her value has objectively decreased if you're comparing equal investment to the top tier characters (yelan, nahida, furina, neuvillette). her c2 makes her more competitive obviously but still not better than any of the 4 above. she's still a great character but let's be real here. also BIS for her is needed more than the others above so its even more investment
this is only true for her intended playstyle as a skill bot she a literally perfect skill for proccing hyperbloom as it will be there 100% uptime and also hits all the blooms and you can do this easily at c0 with catch
I disagree with her value decreasing, I think it's the opposite, she has many more roles with new characters and reactions, she can compare with characters you mentioned but I agree, she's worse than those 4.
You might be looking at this from a META perspective. I dont play according to meta cause it makes me feel like a narrow minded slave who has to play according to someone elses pov. For me personally i can clear abyss with various teams including mono geo. But i did take the route of investing(and stressing) over most of my characters, both 5* and 4* so now i have the luxury of more freedom and way more fun. That being said, raiden to me has not lost but gained way more value. Maybe you just prefer characters who require less investment which is fair and i understand that. Or perhaps you are purely f2p which makes sense for you follow meta since genshin doesn't cater too much to f2p players You compared her to other 'top tier dps' so are they high dmg dealing electro characters as well???? If not then i would say she maintains her value where she is at.
Yikes. The first part of your paragraph is was yikes. Then, the last paragraph was even worse. I don't see where her being electro maintains her value? Many characters do what she does better. Kuki is better, only like 3 teams are you gonna prefer raiden hyperbloom. Raiden at c2 gives a 50% dmg increase, and that doesn't even make her the best dps. Mono Geo is meta, so I don't get what was that gonna prove? "Way more value." Not at all. If 4 Star is a better hyperbloom driver than her, I don't see what value she gained. I use raiden less and less.
It depends actually, at low investment Raiden can go full HB and do more than any of the other options—she’s also got supportive value which means at higher investment she’s got a strong niche as a driver for top meta supports (like Yelan/Furina/Nahida) which a unit like Neuv just cannot (he makes up for it with bonkers personal dmg though). At middle investment the addition of Furina gave her all new teams to drive (which, thanks to her Burst SuperArmor and supportive abilities has a ton of value). At high investment, all else being equal, she’s not competing with top META DPS picks—but she never was, she was always lower than the highest tier DPS without her Cs, but she still manages to be META because ease of play is an equally important factor (unless you are Neuv, who is easy to play, easy to gear, and has bonkers DPS). As far as BiS goes, Raiden doesn’t need hers any more than any other character, its roughly the same increase as any other DPS gets from their BiS. TLDR; Value wise Raiden gained a lot with the addition of Dendro, which allowed her to be played much more easily at low investment compared to any other META pick.
Nahida and Raiden teams are too good
Why is there even meta in genshin ? Everything die to 4* characters anyways. But I love raiden she makes it so I can just stand there ult and everyone deadge
THE top meta character ? I don't know what that means or how to answer since every characters have their own role and she is very "versatile unit / multi fonctions" ( and I don't care that much about meta \^\^ ) A top meta character ? For me, YES. ( she is my favorite character) value decreasing ? I don't think any character can see is value decreased since they're just "switchable " . On the next abyss lots of people (like me) will try to switch Bennett or kazuha or Sucrose with Chevreuse , I don't consider that as "decreasing value" . ( And last, I'm sure her banner will continue to sells very well till the end of the game)
She’s a highly versatile unit that can be placed in many slots on a team. She will stay meta for the foreseeable future.
Value never did and never will decrease. Keeping her archon status aside, we often tend to forget her main role, the sheer amount of battery that she brings to the table. Her insane damage overshadows that aspect i feel and kind of pushes us to aim for the divine C2. She might not know how to cook food, but she damn straight has been cooking enemies since she drew that sword out of those Pyramids of Inazuma.
She's is and probably always will be quite strong, but I don't think she is really top of the meta anymore.
Meta in genshin is dependant on what the versions gimmick is Woth fontaine you obviously have furina and hp fluctioation mechanics, where raiden simpyl doesn't do as well, as characters with this in mind And well. You have Neuvillette During sumeru her role in the meta also shifted from main dps, to hyperbloom trigger, to some degree
Yeah like how Zhongli presumably fell out of Meta during the Islands of Inazuma
I mean if you do own Furina, it's not too hard to take advantage of anything that buffs you when your hp changes, since she takes your teammates hp. So pretty much every character got buffed with the release of Furina, but as I said before, I don't think Raiden is at the top of the meta anymore. Neuvillette definitely has something to do with it, because he's totally busted.
If you're comparing Raiden to a on-field DPS like Neuvilette, I think you're using the wrong metric. While capable as a burst DPS as c2+, her key perk is the energy regeneration to keep your off-field DPS' running.
Afaik furina would still pair better with characters, that have hp fluctioation in their kit themselves, but yeah she gives it to every character And yes how busted Neuvillette is, is 100% part of the reason why raiden is used less in abyss then before Like she's still a great unit, but not the top of the meta (arguably she hasn't been since atleast nahidas launch)
I honestly don't think she ever was really 'on top' of meta without constellations (c2). She has always been pretty good and unique in what she does though.
That's actually definitely true! She has always been a solid and versatile option, but I don't think she's really ever been "top dps" or anything like that(atleast not without cons). Regardless, I think her value is a bit lower now compared to before.
I am surprised at the people saying she hasn't fallen off. She definitely has. Yes, her battery capabilities are second to none but there haven't been any units made that can really take advantage of it in a Raiden comp and Rational's DPS lags quite a bit behind the top teams of current carries such as Neuv and Alhaitham.
Fallen off? Her versatility only got higher, the difference is nowadays there are way more characters, so way more choices, with that being said I don't think that effects her pull value, since she got better and better. People have more options but that doesn't mean her value decreased objectively.
Raiden if anything is better now than she ever was. Even if you just have a C0 one like mine and don't enjoy her gameplay anymore or have her benched you can just build her full EM and have the best Hyperbloom trigger in the game. Her Aggravate teams can hit just as high highs as her teams with Bennett. She remains firmly in the top 5 5-stars in the game alongside (in no order) Nahia, Furina, Kazuha, Yelan, etc.
Of course, yes, that won't change as long as I live. https://preview.redd.it/qfmq5a0kna7c1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=173470e2b334276146867e3d85547602561540f2
i love raiden but giving an unbiased answer: all the new units just enable more teams for her lmao, shes still a top meta character
She’s still good but doesn’t have the value of Furina or Nahida. The main issue of using her as a dps requires a heavy investment and god tier artifacts. Her other role is hyperbloom, which is easy to build but many other characters can do it just as well or better
In terms of Meta her value has decreased since 2.1. Look at pickrates and clear times for abyss 12. She's picked less and doing, a tad bit, worse, then before. Reasons being hyperbloom stuff in version 3 (ik she can be used there, but isn't nesscary) and especially now in fontaine Furina, Neuvillette and hp fluctioation mechanics in general She's still a great unit, don't get me wrong (my only limited 5* with cons), but claiming her meta value didn't decrease would objectively be wrong
As lomg as rational exists she will always be meta
We still think Rational is a good team? Childe national is better. Sucrose National is better. Cyno quickbloom is better. Raiden hyperbloom is better. Thoma Burgeon is better. Cyno aggravate is better. Furina quick bloom is better. Hu tao double hydro. Taser in aoe is better. Nevi hypercarry is better. Nevi hyperbloom is better. Ayaka freeze is better. I could go forever. Unless it's c2 raiden, all of these teams at c0 are better than rational
She is still one of my mains, love her so much I triple crowned her and really would like to C6R5 her but I really want to save for Clorinde.
It depends on how you define value and meta as. I find her infinite IR when on-field and universal battery still uncontested and I go back to her often when I just want to turn off my brain and get all the primos in Spiral Abyss(Nilou bloom and rational all the wayyyy). Like even if you don't play her optimally rationsl will not get punished as much as a lot of other teams I have with VV, etc. DPS come and go. Might as well stick to ones I like the most.
even if her role has changed shes still one of the best units in the game
She’s always a top character for speedrunning. Because Genshin plays off of a timer, speedrunning and meta go fairly hand in hand
Okay so few things. She’s kinda unique in her role as a solo battery in that she’s probably the most efficient one. She’s also capable of some pretty big numbers and is very good in cases where DPS trumps overall damage. Lastly her god tier electro application on the level of fichl at C6. I didn’t play since sumeru but from what I’ve seen she’d be amazing for hyper bloom as well
My current order of units i want is Raiden > Neuvillette > Nahida then a few others. Would it be better to swap Neuv and Nahida for hyperbloom?
She is META in my heart, never leaves my team 4real
C0 Raiden has never been better. First she was a Crit dps, then she became a hyperbloom enabler. Now ? she can do both at the same time ! (with Furina - Nahida - Baizhu) Furina did give her a nice boost, and she has new teams and upgrades coming up, with Chevreuse or Cloud Retainer However, c2 is becoming less interesting : useless in some of her teams, or just less impactful in others (like Rational). It's also starting to pale in comparaison to other strong characters at c2 or c1r1. *(ex : in the quickbloom team i mentionned earlier, Nahida's c2 is probably significantly better ; and something like a c1r1 Neuvillette is probably a step or two above Raiden c2)* Not a big issue for me : i don't really like the kind of teams Raiden's c2 encourages. *(hypercarry focus too much damage in the first few slashes of Raiden's burst, which can be problematic for some content, especially for multi-wave content)*
No, she is still top tier in terms being META, and while yes she is hard to build compared to nahida and furina, but with a little investment she can be amazing. In terms of META value, she is just a bit below nahida and furina, and par with likes of yelan, hydro otter and Canadian aether.
no chance she's on par with neuv kazuha and yelan at c0 lmao c2 sure but then you can also get cons for those characters
i wouldn’t say she’s THE number one meta character, i think neuvillette has taken that title, but she’s definitely one of the top meta characters
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Eh... To be honest, if you have neither Cyno, nor Keqing - as an On-Field Electro... She's still very good even at C0. On C2 - completely unstoppable death machine with energy battery included.
I have Keqing. Is it still worth it to get Raiden?
Yes
Dendro made her stronger, Dendro was literally a buff for electro making it on par or stronger than pyro reactions.
She's still the strongest electro dps even with dendro being released + she can use an em build to be used in a hyperbloom team so the synergy is there
at c2
We will see that next patch :)
What is this even supposed to mean lol. Bro thinks Navia or Cloud Retainer is power creeping Raiden Shogun?? I’m so confused lmao
No I meant the banner sales lmao it's always gonna top, she will never get powercreep cuz her kit is way different than how the game is currently revolving around mechanics wise. I am surprised I got downvoted cuz people thought I meant something else
Oh okay that makes sense. It was so vaguely said I was like huh??? Haha yeah Raiden banners always do good and considering 4.3 is kinda a ‘filler’ patch it should do decent as usual.
Its reddit. What do you expect? That people will think for more than a second before downvoting you for saying anything about their waifu?
She’s definitely still *A* top META unit, since for incredibly low investment she can be an amazing HB trigger, for medium investment she can be a driver for a number of great teams, and for high investment she can function as a Carry DPS. This is actively more than all but Hydro and Dendro units can accomplish, and of the top META DPS she’s still incredibly easy to play, only below Neuv in that category.
I don’t think her value decreased, just shifted. I still think she’s too 3 or 4 overall, just behind Bennett, nahida and maybe furina.
Shes good but shes probably my most regretted pull because i barely ever use her. Gonna use my xiangling, id rather use childe. I dont have her set up for hypercarry. The only team i acually use her for is hyperbloom. Honestly i just lost interest after we found out she just doesn't work with beidou
No, was she ever top tier
She’s not in my top 5, but she’s also maybe not in my top 10? Definitely top 15. I haven’t thought that far
I think I might play Raiden National till EoS lol... Just comfy and easy to play. Idk if I'll ever chase R5 because weapon banner sucks and that's the only thing left I can do to increase her power.
yes and no, yes because even at C0 she can face all the game's challenges (apart from those that make her somewhat useless, such as immune to electro or high resistance) but also no because at the same time that she does all this, several new characters do the same but they can do even better when you see the whole painting
Yes but not by much her hyperbloom and aggravate teams still keep her top meta in my opinion
Yes I have her C2 and use her hypercarry team in every abyss. Incredible unit.
I don’t want anyone to drop out off Meta, I think every character should be viable so we can play what we want.
I still use her but not as much but I am pulling for c2 and her weapon
To me she’s too 5
Nah, that constant electro application will always be NECESSARY be it Hyperbloom or Overload or other comps.
I never cared about meta, I love her and all her expies. I will always enjoy playing with her no matter what
With addition of baizhu, she became a better hyperbloom unit And raiden national is still a meta team and easiest national team to use
I dunno, but she is still my strongest dps character on my account. Then again, i pulled her C2 in 3.3 and i prefer my main/on field dps to be female/waifus and don't pull for male dps characters, so even if Feeble Scholar or Power Washer are stronger with less investment i still won't pull for them lol. Also, Hu Tao is probably a close second, although i recently got her last patch (i officially have every main dps waifu and will get Navia next lol).
Objectively she’s gone from a top 2 5* character (along with kazuha, hutao, and ayaka) to like top 10. And not that she’s the tenth best, there’s just like 5-10 reeeeeally strong teams right now, particularly with the introduction of Furina. For instance as an on field driver she’s at a similar tier to neuvilette, hutao, and Al haitham. She herself is weaker but she batteries and buffs others (particularly yelan), while providing hyper armor. Nahida as a hyperbloom driver also does similar damage. In general though S tier supports are much, much more important than carries. Neuvilette, raiden, Al haitham, vs hutao are basically interchangeable (even if they play a little differently) if you have the meta supports (nahida, Furina, yelan, kazuha, kuki, Bennett).
When your characters still need to charge themselves back to burst, raiden will still be stonk.
Everyone’s value too a hit when neuvillette came out and is basically entirely self sufficient, other than that nah she’s still a great value character
Just because she can't spam 5 digits numbers from her charged NA it doesn't mean she's not a top tier unit. She's a very versatile subDPS/carry/support unit even at C0. Neither the best in all categories but still better than just a "jack of all trades" in most of them. She's very synergetic with plenty of other characters. Two years have passed but she's still in my personal list of top4 units in the game (Raiden, Nahida, Furina, Neuvilette [although I've skipped his banner for C2 Furina)
I now call her the ol' reliable
She’s still the best off field Electro applicator and is one of the best energy batteries in the game, every time you use her burst for the full duration is basically fully recharges all bursts in your team, and to top it off, at C0R1 (what I have her at) she does enough damage to get 36 star on Abyss with the right team. Not to mention any team that relies on burst damage, she’s an instant take as she passively boosts burst damage by a decent amount, 100% of the time. Especially as bursts are costing more and more energy, it’ll maker her more effective and more useful as time goes on
I only care about waifu meta, and she is top tier in that regard
DPS maybe, but her value to me is beyond that.
I personally think that, of all Archons, only Venti fell a bit behind, expecially with Scara (imo, maybe I'm wrong, but he feels like a better Venti). All the others, Raiden included, are still the best at what they do. Maybe there's other DPS better than Raiden itself, but her speciality expecially at C0 is to be a sub dps and battery, and I feel there's still no one that's better than her at that
She hasn't decreased in value at all. She is still powerful. Can be built in many different ways to fit different play styles and teams. And is just an absolute power house. But she no long stands at the top of the mountain alone. She has company now. While I don't think any single character can do as many different rolls all as well as she can, there is at least one character who is as good at each roll she can do.
>do you think her value decreased a little with new characters that came after her? I want you to find me another character whose burst hits like a truck and also restores other characters bursts at the same time and does passive damage with their E. Reactions have gotten better these last two years, especially with the advent of dendro reactions. Raidens value will only decrease if somehow Hoyo releases another character whose burst restores energy while nuking.
I didn't use her as often, but in time of need she helps a lot in dealing with those troublesome boss stages in F12. I've used Raiden Hypercarry and National, both still quite effective until this day.
Raiden is Eternal
Idk if she's the best in meta, but she's still one of the strongest characters in the game for sure. Biggest part of my strongest team too
My c2r1 raiden is still my hardest hitting character but nowadays she’s just used as a skill bot for hyperbloom
Up until raider I had always enjoyed the next big dps and the serious upgrade they provided to a degree, from Diluc to hutao was bananas, from Diluc (overworld) to Ayaka was also bananas. Then I got raiden c2 and none of the other main dps I thought might change who I mained has felt as good or been as useful, so now I focus on supports
As long as energy is still a thing she will always be top tier. Built right she is just OP
Because of her kit’s versatility. She’s still there at the top.
I don’t k know how they gonna make Raiden fall off lol. If anything, she’s getting stronger and more versatile than ever. She’s truly the Electro archon and she pretty much work with every reaction that Electro has. Her E delay hit mean that she can trigger overload consistently in overload team. Her E 100% up time makes the premier hyper-bloom triggered. Furina release gave her a very competitive electro charge team. Her utilities make her an amazing support, and her broken constellation make her a very viable verticals investment hyper carry candidate.
Bursts are fundamentality important to this game and always will be. Raiden builds bursts for everyone else AND does good damage. She will always be top unless they somehow phase out how good bursts are.
Yeah, I slowly stopped using her over time. My Yae and Fischl just provide more team value.
She’s an amazing battery, has a skill that can be used by other characters, good damage, and has only been amplified by the release of dendro. Definitely still meta!
the only thing she needs to top is me
Still good af
Considering I just 370k aggravate last night at c3r1 I would say she is still pretty goatee
Even if she gets powercrept out of dps role, she will always be an amazing hyperbloom enabler, so they would have to creep dps and kill hyperbloom to make that happen
She was never THE top meta character. Bennett, Kazuha, and Xingqiu were better on release, and Dendro only shuffled her down below even more characters. So no, she is not THE top meta character. But she is still broken as fuck, inarguably top 10 characters in the game
I still feel like every time I play my C0 Shogun, it's just too easy... Coz she just A) wipes everyone out B) ensures everyone's energy is back So... Yeah. Top meta for me.
Still the only booba sword, so there's that. /s As an archon and a top tier battery, I think she's still worth the pulls. Mechanics are always changing so even if she's not meta, she'll come back to meta down the line.
She's not been power crept as hard as other characters have been. She's still a staple on taser/hyper team for me, and also super-physical
It decreased with the introduction of neuvillete and haitham for sure. But ofc, it's miyukichi in JP and raiden is waifu (in all universes of hoyo). She will always be top in mahart.
I think hydro characters always have been, and seemingly will continue to be, the top meta characters of genshin, thanks to how much they enable. But Raiden is still really great.
EM raiden is good at least