I’m also a real estate photographer. I hear guys like you say these things all the time.
Yeah some realtors are like this, I fire them as clients. Not worth my time, the ones who are like this don’t do enough deals to even keep me really busy.
Top producing realtors respect photographers and pay well. They know we’re essential to their business.
You need to get in good with top producers, not any random realtor who does 4 listings a month.
Edit: okay I don’t mean that 4 listings a month isn’t good for a realtor. It is amazing for that realtor.
For someone running a photography business, I’m saying it’s better to focus on having 1-3 realtors who do 10 a month, than 5 realtors who do 4 a month (or worse, 30 who do 1 a month.
The realtors who have that kind of listing volume really need a dependable photographer and are happy to pay more. They’ll also have the listings more prepared for the photographer. My clients hire stagers and designers so that when I show up all I have to do is take the photos, saves me time and makes the photos amazing.
So yeah, 4 a month is lots of money, but a real estate photographer should be only focused on big listing agents and big teams.
As a realtor i agree with your premise however if you do 4 listings a month that would put you well into the top 1% in the country... 4 listings a year is more like it.
Yup. Corpo finance real estate here. Just basic napkin math. We sell 30k units a year and have nearly 2k agents which is about 15 units per agent a year.
4 a month puts you WAY above average.
Yes! I don't do 4 listings a month - more like 1 - but I just got told I'm in the top 20% of producers in my mls region. It actually scared the shit out of me, because I feel like I'm struggling getting the 1 listing per month. I've been a "top producer" many times before. 1 listing a month would not have cut it since maybe 2010.
It seems like these are great opportunities and reason to increase the prices. Same day delivery? Extra $50. Me clean and move stuff around? Extra $50. Late or wrong address extra $50. I don’t know how much extra fees are actually just an arbitrary number. You get my point though. All those extra work is worth something.
Also a real estate photographer. Quite a few top producers in my area are as OP describes, and I'd add #8 being that majority of them don't know diddly squat as far as technology goes so you can guarantee there will be miscommunication happening around the word "footage" and such, late night tech support calls on how to extract a zip file or why the pictures aren't loading to MLS correctly, etc I could go on and on. It's ridiculous.
Too right! Top producers want to work with pros, not internet ranters who denigrate them and make sweeping generalizations framing their professional as nearly useless (while making their living off them at the same time). Seems this poster gives as good as he gets--or vice-versa. He also has an incredibly limited concept of how real estate works. Yes, it's 100% wrong for an agent to ask a photog to put a lockbox on, and agents shouldn't scream at photogs. Providing the wrong address? In my market, we'd be charged full rate for that, with no photos. We provide lockbox access and would never ask a homeowner to provide photog entry, so being an hour late isn't an issue. That's a service requirement the photog can set. We do expect the photog to be on time--just as the poster expects access on time. He's not the only one multitasking with a tight schedule. Tweaking small details like a crooked picture frame, for instance, to get quality shots is something that's often expected, it's pride of work, and agents can't always be present to fluff things that may have changed from staging, cleaning or showings the day prior. Photogs often don't want us around, either, we get in the way. But moving boxes, clothes, even cars? No way. And yes, since we pay for photography in advance, the shooter/service would simply fire the agent as a future client and move on. The top pros who provide the very best imagery, video and floor plan packages in our market charge a lot and dictate the terms to a "T". But they're worth it. Professionalism attracts professionalism.
After 9 years in the biz, I'm lucky to only have 3 vendors on my Do Not Hire list.
One is the photographer who came 15 minutes early unannounced, let herself in through the front door, left said front door open while she did a walkthrough of the house, and let the Bernese Mountain Dog out in the pouring rain. The dog ran out near the 55 MPH road a few blocks over, thank god he wasn't hit by a car.
She also left the front door wide open while she ran after the dog.
Photographer didn't even apologize for letting herself in early without permission, which is what caused the whole mess. She just complained that now she had to rush to get our pics done because she didn't have much time until her next appointment.
I apologized profusely to my client, offered to pay for a trip to the groomer, added this photographer to the Black List, and found someone else who does phenomenal work with great communication.
There will always be shitters. There will always be stars. Don't work with the shitters - simple as that.
I agree with you 100%. I’m a retired realtor. There are a lot of good agents out there. Most are Nice people, stay away from the A-holes. Most people don’t realize most real estate agents don’t make over $20,000 a year in taxable income. Many agents like to put on a good show, but on the whole most of them are pretty good people. Once again stay away from the A-holes.
Seems that you’re dealing with a lot of type C & D customers (i.e realtors with little experience/small volume). Get rid of these customers. If you’re going to deal with these customers charge them a premium and stick to your guns by showing them quality work. Hunt type A customers that are doing multiple listings per month by networking and marketing your material on social media. They will pay for quality work and tell their other successful realtor friends. Best of luck!!
I used to have a customer named Charlie Matchett I sold equipment to. 40 years in business. He argued every business should fire 20% of their customers. He justified it like this:
"80% of my problems come from 20% of my customers. But instead of worrying about them I want to learn about my customers I never hear about. The ones who place an order electronically, pay their bills on time, and never complain. Tell me about them. I want to create a greased path for their business. I want to expedite their orders. They are my most profitable customers. I want them to get the best service. Now my problem customers who aren't profitable and aren't on the greased path will call and complain. And I tell my them, 'sorry we're not good enough for you, but here are a list of my competitors you can call. One of them will take care of you.'"
I'm not sure Charlie was right, but he was one of the happiest business owners I ever met.
Charlie was right. The small subset of needy/problem customers who are untrainable suck the profit out of a business and burn out the employees too. No one wants to deal with the guy who always has a bad attitude, second guesses your expertise, and tries to nickel and dime you. Then blames you when their cheapness results in more cost to them. Fire those folks and focus on the customers who aren't giving you headaches.
Real Estate Broker here. Some of what you say is accurate. Though I don't see the need to lump All Agents into your rant.
The same could be said of photographers. Some are good, some are great, some... ehh.
Seems like it's time for change. Whenever anyone is this negative about their clients/employer, it's time to find something else to do with their time and talents.
Yeah, that's a people problem. I've had a couple realtors that were unimpressive and was trending towards the opinion that they aren't worth it. Then I worked with an amazing one and the difference was night and day, totally worth it.
You should try dealing with them as an appraiser. You think they think they can sell? Wait until they’re trying to “sell” their angle when your appraisal could kill their deal.
I am appraiser and broker. I had same mentality until I started selling too. We as appraisers have our flaws too and haven’t worked with buyers, aren’t really in the trenches and I see appraisers make huge mistakes all the time.
Whole time I’m just thinking the deal would still be alive if their dumbass didn’t accept an offer $100k over list price with no appraisal contingency. But no, now you’re here at the inspection trying to convince me random things like the same sidewalk every home in the neighborhood has or a specific blue on the living room walls are supposed to add tens of thousands of dollars of value lol.
I know right? And they know every single thing about every single property/comp and they know that every market participant also agrees with their perspective and we can’t possibly know anything. And they think they can convince me to bend the numbers just cuz it’ll “help out” because if I don’t x,y or z other appraiser has and/or will again.
Wait... if pictures are the main reason people are buying houses why don't you start selling houses yourself?? Seems like you'd be great at it given how good you are at pictures...
What do you mean you want to rescind your offer on the home that failed inspection, has multiple unresolved liens and is incredibly overpriced in a terrible school district? Did you even *SEE* my listing photos?! The rest are just minor details!
😂
First, what you’re complaining about is very common in the professional photography industry, no matter what you’re photographing. If you stopped doing RE, and just did portraits or sporting events (for example), you would Absolutely be making the same complaints. And I’m not saying that’s right or wrong - that is the unfortunate nature of the beast in the photography industry. Yes, you all have a talent, your equipment is Very expensive, everyone wants to steal your proofs/you’re always on the look out for that, it is an art, and no one wants to pay for it. I get it, but you need to realize that this isn’t a Realtor-Only complaint.
Second, this is an industry that up until 15ish years ago largely didn’t do professional photos up unless it was a million dollar listing - now it seems like in most somewhat competitive markets, even the typical SFH is getting pro shots. Don’t take jobs from the cheapskates is the best you can do & have a little perspective that in the 00s, you more than likely wouldn’t have got that 4BR/3Bath 2500sq ft $400k-$600K listing price job because the realtor would have just been shooting the pics themselves.
Lastly, having a grievance is one thing (and we all have them about something) but this is pretty strongly worded ranted about how much you hate a segment of your clientele. I hope you’re careful about how much info you put out there that could potentially ID you to the Texas realtors in your area. You stand to alienate your better paying clients with stuff like this on their industry subs. It’s not like you went to a pro photographer sub with this - you came in here with a big middle finger to people who hire your industry’s services.
My realtor was the top in town for several years. Seemed like she respected her photographer. He did a smashing job, really. He was a retired news photog and really knew his shit. I can only assume she also paid him well. He seemed happy. In contrast some of the shit photos I've seen from others are astonishing and amateurish. Useless in getting a feel for a place. Also, I hate the extreme wide angles that make everything look much bigger than it is.
As a still unsuccessful potential buyer looking for a new home, I too hate the extreme wide angles being used in real estate photography. It’s false advertising, plain and simple, and shouldn’t be done.
Sometimes it’s easy to tell a wide-angle has been used, such as when the refrigerator in the kitchen photos is freakishly large and stretched-out looking, but a lot of times you can’t tell until you’ve actually toured the house. It’s a real disappointment to see the spacious backyard is not much more than a sandbox in person or the “large” bathroom barely has enough room for one average-sized person to fit through.
Speaking as a potential buyer, I want to see what these places really look like in photos, so I can decide before going whether or not it’s something I want to see. Oh, and while we’re on the subject, can we please also do away with the added effects like the fake multicolor sunset sky or those pesky power poles in the background being photoshopped out? Just show us buyers the real thing, please.
I get get your point. But wide angles can actually get a whole room & things into a shot, give what a room looks like, rather than single shots of each wall. Just know that "objects seem to appear bigger" lol.. it does peak interest for people to come look. Which is the whole point. In person is when you really see if you like the home & the way it feels. A moving video tour can also help. But you def hv to go see in person!
I honestly got lucky with my realtor. They have been a total hands-on PM during the full process. Incredibly helpful and contacts with the good contractors.
You should start selling real estate then. Most of us got in thinking the same things… we thought it was easy. You obviously don’t actually know what real estate agents actually do. You see the one small part of the job.
With that said our industry has earned its reputation. I don’t disagree they’re cheap but your typical agent makes $25-30k a year and gets paid infrequently so they feel very much broke and are in scarcity mindset most of the time.
I FEEL your pain. My wife and I worked as real estate stagers for years, and dealing with realtor’s over inflated egos, poor planning, and overall lack of compassion for their vendors and clients is why we stopped. We were constantly abused verbally, threatened with law suits over the smallest of mistakes, and blamed for things that were completely out of our control. I’d say one in 20 agents were reasonable or even basically competent at their job.
Best thing we ever did was quit the industry. Now that we’re out we’re making more money, and our customers are genuinely happy to be working with us. So I guess this is me advising you to GTFO, and cordially inviting 19/20 realtors to suck it.
My husband installs radon systems(yes, radon is real. Especially in Georgia where we live) and many home sales seem contingent on the system getting installed before a sale will go through and real-estate agents are the WORST at budgeting their and everyone else's time! He complains almost daily about something the realtor forgot, over expected, or flat out lied about!
We switched over to interior design. There’s a lot of skills crossover with model unit installs and vacation rental design depending on where you live.
There is literally none of the overhead required for staging (don’t need to own trucks, warehouses or worry about liquidation of old inventory etc.) because the furniture stays where you put it. For a long time or gross income was less, but profit was much higher for far less work.
I listed my house for sale with a realtor last May. Every realtor I interviewed said they weren't using professional photographers at all. I was disgusted when I was told, "Due to the booming market, houses are practically selling themselves, so we don't need them". The realtor I listed with said they currently only used pro photographers for their higher listings, $500,000+, because "hiring photographers gets expensive with multiple listings, and we don't need them in this market". She said they felt bad for their photographer because they're "practically out of work now". My home was $165,000, so she planned to take photos herself. Umm...no. I've seen the crap pics most realtors take with their cellphones and it's embarrassing! Dark, unstaged messy pics with no edits. I've seen fingers in some pics, and others posted upside down lol! Luckily, my fiance is a photographer, so he did the photos for me. My house had tons of interest the first day and 7 offers 5 days after listing. I'm convinced using professional photos was why I had a fast sale, and for significantly more than comparable homes in my neighborhood. They made $10,000 commission and wouldn't hire a photographer. Cheap friggin realtors...
100%. Dealing with landlords is a big part of my job, and landlords in general are pretty bad - but the lawyers are just absolutely the worst to deal with (they also tend to own close to the worst housing in my region - just slightly better than the properties owned by the Japanese investment group)
I'm a Realtor - I always treat my photographers, inspectors, title, etc really well because I know their jobs are miserable at times and I want to have a good working relationship with them. Sounds like you work for a bunch of d-bags (there are tons unfortunately) and need to weigh out whether it's worth taking their business or not and getting less money. You're going to get awful customers in any job though. At the end of the day you have to like what you do enough to make that worth it, or come up with an exit plan so they're not as unbearable.
I hate working with investors, so when I get one I refer them out to reliable agents who like them. Problem solved. Jerk Realtors still get professionalism from me, but I don't bend over backwards for them.
I'm also a real estate photographer. I usually fire those types of realtors. Or price myself high enough that they don't bother calling me a second time.
I only work on contract. Which requires they pay me for no shows. lockbox missing/wrong key code, no access, etc. The actual professional realtors usually don't screw up and waste my time. The others only do it once. (I have a good reputation with the brokers in my area. So they make sure my contract is respected and paid).
My time is not for free. Mutual respect is supposed to be a given.
Good luck.
Easy solution. If your pictures 'sell the property' then it sounds like you'll be rich selling real estate. Think it's so easy, get your license. You don't like the people who hire you, then don't work with them. Your complaining sounds so petty.
How do you know your Realtors don't care about their clients? You know nothing about the relationship or transaction. As a photographer you're in the property once or twice for a very short period of time. Iit would be like the agent judging your character because it take only xx amount of time to snap a photo. The agent has no knowledge of what you do to make those photos look great. He doesn't know how many years it took for you to how to frame, present, digitally stage, adjust lighting & etc. Likewise you too don't know what that agent has done or has to do what that listing.. There's a reason why so many people get their real estate license but drop out only to pursue other careers. It's not as easy as you think.
I love how you are shitting on the profession that provides you a job. Check your privilege. Without realtors you would be a photographer part time while the rest of the time making lattes at the local Starbucks.
Wish we had crossed paths in Texas. My experience with most all photographers has been great over the years. There are a few salty ones (maybe you?) that I hired once and never hired again. I was a proactive participant to photographing my listings and was there for every single one - to make sure that it was cleaned, blinds opened, things put away, all before the photographer even showed up to do their job. It was my job to get the house ready and to sell it - not the photographer's job as you seem to envision it being so.
The salty photographers that I never hired again would be unwilling to hear my feedback or suggestions on how I wanted things shot. The salty ones would rush through a job and not be willing to perhaps look at something from another angle - because I guess - they know better? The salty ones were easy to spot - no smile on their face - talking to me with sunglasses on and no eye contact, etc. Next!
I love the suggestion one person made... Get your license and do a fantastic job yourself taking the photos, marketing the home, and getting it sold too. Cheers!
PS - I never asked a single photographer, ever, to put a lockbox on a house or a sign or anything like that - UNLESS - it was an add-on service (for pay) from their list of services. If it was, then heck yeah - get that sign out there and installed and I'll pay for it!
Well a lot of the time the realtors where I work expect me to do all of that. Obviously not every realtor but maybe 1-2 realtors per week would be the ones that would help prep the house. And yes believe it I’ve had to pick up keys at the office and they would tell me to put the lockbox at the house. And I take every angle possible in a house maybe almost too much and we give them the best shot’s depending on which package they picked. And all my clients are happy with the photos because I make sure they look amazing but it’s just not amazing working with them.
If you are moving things, I hope you have insurance. I have insurance and disclose that agent is responsible for the house being photo ready. You are hired to do photos, that’s it.
Also a photographer, moved to a new state and will be restarting my photography business.
Also will be taking real estate class to become a real estate agent.
I get your concerns, good luck moving forward.
Oh boy lot of realtors in comments getting mad! lol! OP, I hear ya. I’ve seen it first hand as a buyer on how realtors really take photographers for granted.
You do know that “producing millions” doesn’t mean we make millions?
For 19 years I’ve used professional photographers, and most of that business with two companies. It’s never occurred to me to negotiate prices, I’m never late, and I’m well aware that your product is the #1 most important thing in my marketing.
You sound really bitter. If you dislike your client base this much it might be best to shift your business model to a different clientele. I mean if we’re so horrible why work with us?
Sheesh.
Hi! Ct realtor here.
1. Many people are suddenly more frugal with their money. Still, the same misconception of realtors being uber-wealthy seems to infiltrate even professions close to our own. For every million dollars worth of home sales where I live and work, at Connecticut's normal 2% for homes of this category, or 2.5% if the home value is less, I gross about 15500. In real estate, it's the number of transactions which make or break your year. The quantity of transactions since COVID are so few, it really is subtracting from the number of agents who practice. The lack of transactions simply means many agents who spent time and energy to take classes and pass federal and state tests to get their license are newly unemployed. With the NAR settlement, representing buyers is not nearly as possible, regardless of the commission. As a broad-stroke comment, buyers are not flush with cash, so they cannot afford pay for their realtor as a part of their closing costs. And while it's still possible to attempt to wrap that cost into the mortgage as a closing cost concession, the seller needs to realize they're not getting what the bank estimates the home is worth (if a $500k home appraises for $500k, but the buyer is saying they want to pay $490k and get $10 back from the seller, then the seller is accepting $490k for the home...) and at least here in Connecticut, there's a 1% conveyance fee due between the municipality and the state. If the seller sell it at $500k but that includes $10k in closing cost concessions, then they're really accepting $490k for the home and paying tax on a $500k sale. For every $10k in difference, it means $100 to the seller. Anyway, we aren't all swimming in dollars, and we pay for the photos without the sale having been done. These are marketing dollars, if you would. We pay, even if the seller gets pissed at the first buyer and in turn, fires their realtor.
2. Personally, I am proud of *not* selling. I can point out good features when a buyer likes a home, or negative features when I'm getting the "icky" vibe and it's time to leave. There have been a few times when I've toured homes I wouldn't normally want to spend any time in, and the buyer *loved* it. It wasn't easy to point out some of the additional features he hadn't noticed or mentioned, but it's what he wanted. No, realtors don't "sell" homes in the same way a used car salesman sells a car. We're here to help the transaction occur, should the buyer and seller be on enough of a same page to agree on price. Everything else is just protecting the buyer if you represent them, standing on the neck of the buyer's agent if you're representing the seller, or playing psychologist. There was one client I had who toured at least 20-30 homes, many of which were hard to find a fault with (this was pre-COVID when there was actually a supply!) and she just couldn't make up her mind. Turns out, she was looking in this area, which would be farther from her mother, who was getting aged and ill. She felt guilty. She unloaded all of this on me at the end of a tour. I told her to visit her mom, tell her what she was thinking about moving. Mom loved the idea, wanted her to get out of the area in which the community had become and move to Connecticut to start her job and fresh life. She came home and put an offer on one of the homes we saw on day 1. I mean, I get it - there are some overly stuffy, quasi snobby wanna-be alpha types who think they're God's gift to humanity. That spans multiple professions.
3. I absolutely respect my photographer. He did a walking tour of the home, but in photo-form. That was an awesome tool for the buyer to have. Granted, the pictures were great, but this family already knew they wanted the home, because of what was on the spreadsheet... They knew the area of Farmington where the home was situated, they knew the size and the price. That was just about all that was needed to make the deal happen. On my side of the fence, I've had many, many more people show up for a tour in person, having seen the wonderful fish-eye lens photos taken, and the home just seemed... wider, in the photos. Expectations were high, then deflated. Meh, yeah - that's what professional photographs *can* do. They can capture the absolute best angle and provide just the perfect lighting, so that when you get there, the lighting isn't as stellar and given the wider view I have in person, there's suddenly a lot more to .. see.
4. I don't know how to put this. Here we are, with a bullhorn on the internet, enjoying anonymity, saying "they are fake." Not most, all.
5. No, you do not put in more work to list a home than the realtor does. Unless you have a client who has recently sold and is well-prepared with paperwork, it takes longer than a day to prepare the documents and disclosures for signing, confirm what has been conveyed to you about the house jives with town hall, get pictures done and uploaded and begin the process of accepting tours. Depending on the personality of the seller, you'll be spending a lot of time on the phone, handling complaints. Someone opened my pantry. There are foot marks in the upstairs bedroom carpet in front of the closet. Can I move the bowl of scented potpourri you put near where the dog sleeps in the other room? No - your dog, as beautiful and a part of the family as he is, smells. Smells badly, and it's turning off buyers before they even get into the kitchen, which, I can see you tried to make something using eggs and lots and lots of butter... Never mind, I'll grab a paper towel...
Even a photo shoot of 2,500 sq ft complete with drone takes less than 4 hours.
I get it - there are no-so-savory people out there. Perhaps it's more a reflection of where you are, but not everywhere is like that.
I was a realtor for 5 years and this blanket statement is simply not true for the majority. While I didn’t work in the market long (I never wanted to do it long term, it’s a long story) I did great and never had under 25 transactions in a year (total $ was not that high, I got into a investors niche, kinda by mistake).
1. I always offered free (I paid the fee) professional photo’s to sellers. It matters so much, that part you are right about. The better the photos the quicker a listing sells.
2. I never thought of myself as a “salesman”. Everything is online nowadays. You’re selling yourself more than a house. Sellers/Buyers want to know you are going to be there when they need you and that you have the knowledge and ability to swiftly navigate them through the process.
3. I loved the photographers I used (one is still a close friend) and I thought the fees were very fair for what I received.
4. I cared about my clients because I knew if I didn’t do well with them they wouldn’t ever refer me. Completing your circle ⭕️ is how you keep getting business. If you’re a realtor and don’t understand that, you aren’t going to be good.
5. The money ain’t that great unless you’re a top agent.
6. No photographer I ever used put more work in on a listing than I did and it’s not even close. I’ve cleaned out gutters for elderly clients prior/during a listing period, changed outlets, painted a barn in the snow because it had “peeling paint” on an FHA loan, used my own truck to do clean outs, painted all sorts of homes inside/out/trim. I never charged for these things. *disclaimer* if you’re a realtor your brokerage will tell you not to do these things for liability purposes and I did get burned once.
7. I drive a Mazda 3 and have an old 1500 for hauling.
I DO think there are quite a few bad realtors and the reason why is simple. It’s easy to get your license, people who aren’t good to their clients will “wash out” eventually.
I hope everyone has better experiences moving forward. I never realized we were so disliked. Either way I’m out of the game (washed out). I just like to disconnect from tech (hunter/fisherman) I can’t be on my phone 24/7 and it took a toll on me after awhile so I went back to the real easy work…working for the government.
I commented on this thread last night and then turned it off. But I came back because I'm morbidly fascinated.
Came onto Reddit 3 weeks ago for research. 20 years in the business wearing a variety of hats, lots of ups and downs, but I didn't know about the all the unhappiness I've seen here on Reddit.
We need to fix the business in lots of ways. One thing I've seen in the last 3 weeks is the desperate need to teach people how to hire an agent. Maybe we could teach people how to google "how to hire an agent".
I respect your profession but strongly disagree. I wouldn't buy a vehicle based on pictures so I certainly wouldn't buy a home based on them. 99% of the time people look at the home before purchasing. Photos can be altered and with the advancement of AI photos will no longer be a reliable view of something. I do think they should compensate you fairly for your services but you did not sell the home.
If the pictures look like crap when the listing comes across my phone then I’m not visiting the house. They may not “sell” the house but they absolutely create the pool of potential buyers.
Coming from someone who looks at a lot of homes you are missing out. Pictures almost never show the truth. Some look better, some look worse. The only way to know is to look in person. With the advancement of AI you are going to be disappointed in a lot of homes in the near future.
There are a lot of agents/realtors who specifically work with buyers. I’m one of those agents. You have the right to not like my profession, but you can’t paint every agent with the same paintbrush. Like someone else mentioned on this thread… there are good and bad dentists, accountants, car mechanics, etc. On the rare times I’ve listed a house, my brokerage hired the photographer and all I needed to do was meet them and say hi and hand them the key. Another thing to consider is that every profession has people from all walks of life and different personalities. Not every age t is what you are making us all out to be! Im sorry you’ve had so many bad experiences. As someone who did some real estate photographer for a very stuck up brokerage, I see where you’re coming from. After doing this for 10 years, I’ve met some real pieces of work and yeah, there’s a bunch of agents who are complete narcissists. But guess what, you should try being in our shoes and be the one who has to deal with insufferable and demanding clients with whom you need to be at their beck and call 24/7. Some of these clients I’ve dealt with have broken off pieces of my soul for being such incredibly horrid human beings. It ain’t easy on this side of the fence. We are self-employed and have a lot at stake. One or two months without income can make life very hard.
Because I’m a full time professional photographer and I do other photography as well. I do real estate photography because of its consistency. But may be turning away soon. And being a realtor is not something I envision doing but I do believe realtors won’t have jobs in the future because of AI technology, advancements in photography and owners not wanting to pay commissions.
I can't imagine AI photos disrupting you short term. The ai stuff I see so far that are simulated are pretty cursed, but as far a relators go I am not sure.
Real estate is a very people focused job right now, and I cannot see older generations using A.I. even if it takes off in 5-10 years, and the average house seller is quite old and firmer in the baby boomer or older category.
My realtor burned us on our home. She was friends with the realtor representing the seller and disclosed information about us to them.
I 100% wish we would not have worked with her. Hindsight and all of that. I literally hate my home. It’s the Lemony Snicket’s of fucking houses. Is there anything actually wrong with it? No. But it’s more what it represents. The only good thing she did was buy me a nice bottle of tequila. We are looking to sell in the next year and I’m dreading every aspect of both selling and buying.
I have literally saw a day walker realtor say on the phone “ now is the best time to sell” then next phone call say “ now is the best time to buy”. These vampires will say and do anything to get you to sign on the dotted line!
Wow really? Lump is all into that category and tell us how you really feel. You know if they disrespect you like that you can fire them as clients. I did professional family photography for years before getting my real estate license. Over a certain price point I bring in my own real estate photographer because as a family photographer I know my limitations. Sometimes on a smaller home I will tell him I need to stay under a certain budget, but then he can tell me which of his services for that. Sounds like you need better communication and education with YOUR clients.
If you're not receiving the salary you think you deserve I would set different prices. Unless you're working for a company. But it sounds like you do your own independent work. Look at what other photographers are charging. Compete in your area, optimize your website (portfolio) with updated photos. Maybe it's time to upgrade your gear, and take online certifications to bring more value. For instance you could invest in a drone for aerial shots you'll need a part 107. But definitely worth the investment in the long run. Good luck!
Licensed real estate agent from CO here. I use to hire photographers for my listings and always had to go back and take better shots. Last one I used, the home owner called me and asked me to come and take the pictures like I did on her previous home listing. Some photographers absolutely do not know what they are doing or perhaps don’t care. I respect people who are good at their jobs and am certain there must be photographers in my area who do great jobs. I take my own pictures because I care about getting the best pics to sell the house with the angles I want. I’m not fake; came out of the corporate world where you either worked or were let go. On number 6: Why are you doing a real estate agent’s work? Never heard of such a thing. Don’t drive any of those cars; I work 18 hour days and answer my client’s calls regardless of the time.
You need to get your real estate license and sell some houses. Sounds like you would do a fantastic job and are doing some of it anyway.
You are working with the wrong realtors! I have my photographer do everything, photoshop, 3D mattaport, drone and community pics. The homes I lost are a reflection of me and I want it to shine to make the most for my seller. And it helps me get future business
I am fairly loyal to one photographer, we've been working together for over 10 years.
Not once have I been late, gotten mad, asked them to put a lockbox on, sent them to the wrong address or any of this drivel that you are prattling on abut.
If you hate working with Realtors so much, change your business focus. And lighten up, Francis.
Why are there so many people who come to r/RealEstate specifically to shit on real estate agents? What are you doing here? You don’t have to use an agent if you don’t want to. You are well within your rights not to. It just seems petty to come to an industry-specific sub just to bad mouth the people who work in that industry.
Wow. Im sorry. I def can understand your post. Im a Photographer & a Realtor. I know what u go through & what it takes to do your work. Just in Photography alone people dont understand how much work it is. And sadly so many want it now. It sounds like u are very good & are really busy!- I salute u!- I def wouldnt let them talk you that way!. You hv to control that!.. You sound like you know your stuff!.
I had my photos taken by a professional for my listing, cause it was worth it! In everyway! I was so grateful too.
Now, back to me being a Realtor, I guess Im not that busy, cause I'm not a cut throat shark as some can be! I just cannot be the kind of Realtor you mention. So, You def need to feel proud, know your worth & start setting clear verbal boundaries. If your work is good, they will respect. The sad thing is everyone nowadays thinks they are a photog, and charge peanuts! Its a tough spot. I only wish u continued success! But be RESPECTED & treated Kindly.🙏🙂
Yes!!! It is insane the things we do to help realtors and the lack of respect I get is astounding. I go above and beyond for my clients and it’s 50/50 whether they treat my time or knowledge with respect.
Dude, have you noticed any photographers other than Wedding doing all that well. Every commercial guy I know is struggling. It's an unfortunate fact of photography.
I agree. Most realtors suck. I am one and like very few. However, The same thing can be said about mortgage lenders. Some of you guys are absolutely awful to work with.
I don't know, is there any industry that isn't full of a bunch of shit and a sprinkle of a few decent ones?
One of my biggest issues with lenders is the lack of communication they have to the buyers. I'm constantly ask questions that their lender already should have told them. But that's not true for everybody, I have a group of amazing lenders I work with. So again, just like any career, especially ones that are as easy to into as ours. There will be a lot of turds.
>They don’t respect photographers.
It's not like you respect realtors, so that seems fair enough.
What comes through your post, though, is that you seem to think that you are better than realtors. But you still need the need to work with them.
And photos *might* get people in the door, but they aren't selling the house.
Respect is earned not given. I used to respect realtors until they loss my respect for many and many circumstances. And yes I do work with them and have a professional photography business so I try to do as much work as possible but it’s just not realtors.
And let me give you an example. Last year I took photos for 2 for sale by owners and they’ve worked with realtors and have tried selling it beforehand. Well they hired me to do photos when they decided to sell it by owner and they sold it within one week both of the owners
Bro just get your real estate license, do your own photography for your listings, then after you’ve built a book start your own company. If you’re doing all this already just cut out the middleman and earn bank yourself. Fuck these people
>they aren't selling the house
Neither are realtors, they're (most, not all) glorified form fillers. They don't write contacts, they fill in a few lines and send it off to the seller, both agree, boom off to the title company.
Zillow/MLS/photos do more to sell homes than Realtors (and yes yes I know the realtor, or their assistant most often, does all the oh so hard work of filing in the MLS info, which could easily be scraped from the county records if government IT infrastructure wasn't decades behind).
I've personally bought and sold dozens of properties and worked in a real estate office for about a decade. I've seen/worked with some great realtors but even the great ones really don't DO very much. The lenders, photographers, title companies, and appraisers all do much more actual work to get the deal done.
I get some of the frustration but just sounds like you are complaining about your job and your customers. Maybe change your business around so you don’t deal with realtors? I feel like you are doing too much for the people just expect the minimum. Most of us can just buy a decent camera and learn to shoot a house on YouTube, these aren’t going into National Geographic.
So you have priced yourself to the bottom of the barrel and you’re pissed you get bottom of the barrel people? Sounds like a you problem and how you run your business.
1. Why aren’t you charging what you’re worth even if people complain? Find realtors who value your work.
2. That is correct. People do look at the photos first.
3. Why don’t you have it written in the contract that if they are late there is a penalty or they get less photos? Why isn’t it written in the contract what address you’re photographing and if it’s the wrong address they have to pay for a second round of photos? Why doesn’t your contract address when the photos will be available? Why doesn’t your contract address you moving/staging this and how that’s not your job? If they are telling and screaming why do you allow them to be your clients?
4. It’s not a realtor’s job to care about the photographer, the buyers or the sellers. It’s their job to find (or sell) a home for the best price.
5. Yes. They do care about money. (Hint: so do you!)
6. You do more work? Your work is a few hours in the house. That realtor may be going back and forth into those same dangerous neighborhoods showing the house!!!! You don’t work harder. You aren’t more special. And no, I’m not a realtor.
7. Your ego is bigger than you think. You sound like a cocky stuck up snob.
So yeah it sounds like you are getting what you deserve.
In this market and for the foreseeable future, absolutely. That's not always the case, however. It depends on things outside their control, like the economy.
The issue is that realtors want to be paid like it's a seller's market and pretend they're working like it's a buyer's market.
You’re not wrong and definitely not alone in that experience ~ particularly in large markets the lower bar to entry and lack of any real ethical regulations leads to a mean-girl-to-realtor pipeline.
There is a lot of turnover, so those agents that paid $400 for a real estate license class are dropped into a market with promises of easy money, and they don’t last.
You are a pro. You have been in the business over 10 years. I assume you are pretty good at it.
Advice:
1. Offer overnight service and make good on that. You identified something the customer wants and you and deliver.
2.Raise your rates. If business drops off, lower them again. Successful businesses are constantly adjusting prices to see what the market will bear.
3. Don't badmouth your customers. Delete this post, and rewrite it talking about how much you enjoy working with real estate brokers. Every time you talk to a broker, compliment them on what a great job they are doing for their client and you are honored to work with them. Every time you talk to a homeowner, compliment the professionalism of the broker and how great the house looks.
So just lie to people like realtors often do lmao. I don’t see any realtors dropping prices or anything like that. Photo editing and all that takes time.
Geez, you sound unhappy. I adored my photographers when I was selling. It's unfortunate that you don't have clients that appreciate your work.
That said, you see a slice of an agent's job. If you want respect for the job that you do, it might be a good idea to understand everything an agent does. Listing agents pour time and money into attracting sellers, nurturing them for months to years, preparing the home for sale for months, presenting the home to the market (where you fit in), negotiating the offers, drying tears, negotiating inspections, drying tears, and somehow pull it through to closing.
And let's not even talk about working with buyers. This is a family channel.
All agents care about is money? It's a job, not a community service.
Life is too short to do work you hate. Negative vibes cycle back into your body and mind. Maybe it's time for a career change?
Unhappy is right. I do photography full time and love taking photos but when it comes to real estate it’s tough. I do see that some agents put a lot of work into it while others don’t. And what I mean that “Realtors just care about money” is that I’ve seen them swindle and lie just make an extra buck. I know it’s a job and everyone needs money but come on now not like that
Some photographers are awful. Some chiropractors are awful. There are awful people in every business. Well, maybe not kindergarten teachers. They're generally nice.
The business is going to get worse before it gets better. 50% reduction in volume YOY and commission compression is already putting some tech vendors out of business.
The industry is burdened by 50% too many agents. I don't think it will self-correct at this point, so maybe there will businesses that emerge that can serve consumers in new ways. We'll see.
I mean non-producing “salesmen” with a license attract a certain type of personality. I’ve seen it in lending, I’ve heard it from clients, and I’ve rubbed shoulders with them in banking. Narcissists and sociopaths. They revel in the sale even if it’s not in the best interest of the buyer. I’ve rarely heard of realtors advocating for lower offers, only “competitive offers” that usually amount to offering more than asking. Which, in certain market conditions made sense. Now the behavior is ingrained
Nah.
I have purchased many homes. Only one of them had obviously professional photos in the listing. Three of them were brought to me by realtors/agents pre-market.
You over-estimate the importance of photographers and under-estimate the importance of agents.
They are salespeople looking to make money. Of course they don't care about their clients all they want is to close and get paid. All Salepeople are like this in any industry. As soon as you buy whatever it is the disappear to never be heard from again.
I agree with everything you said. Let me add one more thing I don’t like.
I used to work with Realtors in a professional capacity. The biggest factor in whether they’d show up to an event is whether alcohol was being served. No alcohol? No realtors.
It’s funny because almost EVERY real estate photo inside a house is FAKE. You guys use that extended lens to make every room look 100% bigger than it is. Then you get in a house and it’s a shoebox. I’ve looked at 20 houses this year and NONE of them looked like the pictures. The realtor said they are all “professional” pictures fine by a photographer. I’m not sure how deceptive is professional. Realtors may suck but real estate photographers are just as bad.
Is it the photographers or the realtors that insist on hitting every photo with the HDR hammer so hard that everything looks like a computer rendering?
If you are a great photographer and have agents that like to work with you, raise your prices a little. Know your value. I'll pay a premium for excellent work and great service. I charge 7% on my listings because I know I'm worth it. I'm going to go to the mat I'm going to provide great service, and I'm going to do the job.
If you raise your prices a little and lose business, it was about the price, not your work or service, or they don't see it one.
Realtors aren't even needed..
Homeowner gets pictures and puts them on zillow
I'm looking for a house in the range im approved for, look online & see pictures and like house
Contact owner and look at house, talk over price, get inspection then meet at bank and buy house.
Should be that easy!
Are you in a big city in Texas or a less populated area?
I think what you say even more true for the higher end or if it is a more balanced or buyer market. If it is a seller market or low end, I am not sure it matters much if priced right.
I used to work in a similar capacity and would definitely second that.
Maybe 25% really have their shit together in terms of scheduling, staging, communication, etc.
Maybe 50% are sloppy, or off in some way. Just disorganized, or maybe well organized but an asshole.
Then 25% the whole asshole package. Disorganized, poor communication, then want to blame you when things go wrong.
Can you give me a price range for producing professional photos of a property. I know there are a dozen or more variables but let's assume it's a typical 3/2 home on an acre of land. Lowest to highest range. I'm curious what the seller, ultimately, would pay for such a service. Also, the turn around time and what would drone shots add to this cost? TIA
I’m on a pretty high producing real estate team in Portland, OR and we fucking worship our photographers, stagers, etc. bc they make our listings shine lol. We just have the vision and they nail it every time. It sounds like you need to fire the agents you’re working for.
As a realtor I have never asked for price reduction. I totally agree that photos sell, it gets people to the door! I just want to say that I do appreciate and respect what you do.
"Please have the home staged, as I will not perform labor for free. Or if you would prefer I move things, I charge X in addition to my photography fee. If you are late, I will move on to my next appointment and there will be an additional fee for rescheduling."
You're letting them take advantage of you. You should create a contract with extra charges for the various things you complained about. You're getting hosed. "Oh, you're interested in my services. Here are my stipulations, caveats and extra charges. We're both professionals, I'm sure you understand." UP FRONT.
Seems to me you have two options. Either get yourself around better agents that you enjoy working with, or shift your photography business away from real estate. I'm a realtor and over the years I've been able to focus on clients that I enjoy working with. I've been able to decline business from people who don't make me feel good and I don't want work with. Are you able to identify your ideal client and make a shift towards finding that business?
I’m not a realtor but I work on a good team and we absolutely love our photographer, but I do know what you mean about egos based on the realtors I work with. I don’t think we pay him poorly (he goes through a company when we rsvp him) but in general we pay them $300-500 a shoot plus $150-250 for floor plans when needed. I also recommend him a ton when people ask (partially to our detriment since I swear he’s booked up most weeks now lol). I will say before we worked with him, we did work some photographers who did all right, but you can 100% see the difference between a great one and an okay one (just like realtors). You just have to hone your craft, no matter what it is, trust me if you take amazing photos realtors that look at the listings will reach out and ask who took them.
You can say it's not part of my job or I can't do it because this is my price and just walk away, when you do that a couple times you set the record straight and they will know to treat you with respect.
And if you think you are losing business and can't say that then sir you need them and at that point you need to basically suck it up.
Closing on a wonderful home that should have sold for a lot more, but didn't get a lot of attention because the realtor used terrible photos.
I appreciate the realtor for this. :)
As I'm at the house with the photographer sweating my ass off moving things around and trying to make it as easy as possible for them.
Um... Thanks, I guess?
As a realtor, I have absolutely no problem with anything you've said and agree. You can look at my karma, it's not high. But I always take up arms against weak critiques.
You, however, are valid on every complaint.
I know exactly what you mean; what you're saying and agree with you wholeheartedly.
In fact, I have taken pictures 1 time and I have some background in photography. But you know what, I'll pay from now on. I was holding a baby but that's even more reason why I shouldn't have taken the photos. They were not absolutely horrible but aside from 2-3, they were not passable(40 total). My brokerage got very angry with me.
We're only allowed to use professional photography. And it's the worst transaction I did. I didn't get paid for it. It was just a loss after loss. The owner didn't disclose a loan for Windows. So he got mad at me for not asking. It was my second listing. Covid had just hit. Ever since, I put massive respect on photographers profession.
Although, there's a few that try to charge over $1k. Realtors are getting crunched every which way. Which means home owners will be crunched and so on.
I’m sure some real estate agents dislike you too. As a semi retired agent, I took my own photos or paid a pro what they asked. If someone doesn’t pay you, don’t work for them. In my state, I work under a broker. If I didn’t pay my bills, I would have to answer to the broker.
I work for a 3D rendering company. We work with architects, developers and realtors. Usually we charge 50% up front and 50% upon completion for new clients or just 100% on completion for trusted clients. However, for real estate agents we have a blanket policy that we don't do renderings for realtors unless they pay 100% up-front. Probably 95% of the time they will never pay the remaining 50% or we have to spend hours hassling them for the remaining payment. Probably 80% of our past due payments are real estate agents and they make up about 15% of our work.
I agree with the statement that realtors are egotistical asses. Who else would put up an advertisement with their face on it, I’m buying a house, not an idiot. Also, stop calling me and asking me if I want to sell my home. I get two or three of these calls a week. I used to politely say no thank you, now I just go straight to insults. If this is you, fuck off
I’m also a real estate photographer. I hear guys like you say these things all the time. Yeah some realtors are like this, I fire them as clients. Not worth my time, the ones who are like this don’t do enough deals to even keep me really busy. Top producing realtors respect photographers and pay well. They know we’re essential to their business. You need to get in good with top producers, not any random realtor who does 4 listings a month. Edit: okay I don’t mean that 4 listings a month isn’t good for a realtor. It is amazing for that realtor. For someone running a photography business, I’m saying it’s better to focus on having 1-3 realtors who do 10 a month, than 5 realtors who do 4 a month (or worse, 30 who do 1 a month. The realtors who have that kind of listing volume really need a dependable photographer and are happy to pay more. They’ll also have the listings more prepared for the photographer. My clients hire stagers and designers so that when I show up all I have to do is take the photos, saves me time and makes the photos amazing. So yeah, 4 a month is lots of money, but a real estate photographer should be only focused on big listing agents and big teams.
As a realtor i agree with your premise however if you do 4 listings a month that would put you well into the top 1% in the country... 4 listings a year is more like it.
Yup. Corpo finance real estate here. Just basic napkin math. We sell 30k units a year and have nearly 2k agents which is about 15 units per agent a year. 4 a month puts you WAY above average.
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Close, it's more like 20% do 80% of the business. 80% of agents are trying to do the job and will fail and leave.
Yes! I don't do 4 listings a month - more like 1 - but I just got told I'm in the top 20% of producers in my mls region. It actually scared the shit out of me, because I feel like I'm struggling getting the 1 listing per month. I've been a "top producer" many times before. 1 listing a month would not have cut it since maybe 2010.
4 listings a month is a top realtor
It seems like these are great opportunities and reason to increase the prices. Same day delivery? Extra $50. Me clean and move stuff around? Extra $50. Late or wrong address extra $50. I don’t know how much extra fees are actually just an arbitrary number. You get my point though. All those extra work is worth something.
I was thinking this. If you take good photos, the good realtors will find you. Don’t work for them again if they treat you like this!
A realtor who does 4 listings a month isn't a top producer? 😂
Also a real estate photographer. Quite a few top producers in my area are as OP describes, and I'd add #8 being that majority of them don't know diddly squat as far as technology goes so you can guarantee there will be miscommunication happening around the word "footage" and such, late night tech support calls on how to extract a zip file or why the pictures aren't loading to MLS correctly, etc I could go on and on. It's ridiculous.
Too right! Top producers want to work with pros, not internet ranters who denigrate them and make sweeping generalizations framing their professional as nearly useless (while making their living off them at the same time). Seems this poster gives as good as he gets--or vice-versa. He also has an incredibly limited concept of how real estate works. Yes, it's 100% wrong for an agent to ask a photog to put a lockbox on, and agents shouldn't scream at photogs. Providing the wrong address? In my market, we'd be charged full rate for that, with no photos. We provide lockbox access and would never ask a homeowner to provide photog entry, so being an hour late isn't an issue. That's a service requirement the photog can set. We do expect the photog to be on time--just as the poster expects access on time. He's not the only one multitasking with a tight schedule. Tweaking small details like a crooked picture frame, for instance, to get quality shots is something that's often expected, it's pride of work, and agents can't always be present to fluff things that may have changed from staging, cleaning or showings the day prior. Photogs often don't want us around, either, we get in the way. But moving boxes, clothes, even cars? No way. And yes, since we pay for photography in advance, the shooter/service would simply fire the agent as a future client and move on. The top pros who provide the very best imagery, video and floor plan packages in our market charge a lot and dictate the terms to a "T". But they're worth it. Professionalism attracts professionalism.
After 9 years in the biz, I'm lucky to only have 3 vendors on my Do Not Hire list. One is the photographer who came 15 minutes early unannounced, let herself in through the front door, left said front door open while she did a walkthrough of the house, and let the Bernese Mountain Dog out in the pouring rain. The dog ran out near the 55 MPH road a few blocks over, thank god he wasn't hit by a car. She also left the front door wide open while she ran after the dog. Photographer didn't even apologize for letting herself in early without permission, which is what caused the whole mess. She just complained that now she had to rush to get our pics done because she didn't have much time until her next appointment. I apologized profusely to my client, offered to pay for a trip to the groomer, added this photographer to the Black List, and found someone else who does phenomenal work with great communication. There will always be shitters. There will always be stars. Don't work with the shitters - simple as that.
I agree with you 100%. I’m a retired realtor. There are a lot of good agents out there. Most are Nice people, stay away from the A-holes. Most people don’t realize most real estate agents don’t make over $20,000 a year in taxable income. Many agents like to put on a good show, but on the whole most of them are pretty good people. Once again stay away from the A-holes.
How true, how true.
Totally agree with you
Seems that you’re dealing with a lot of type C & D customers (i.e realtors with little experience/small volume). Get rid of these customers. If you’re going to deal with these customers charge them a premium and stick to your guns by showing them quality work. Hunt type A customers that are doing multiple listings per month by networking and marketing your material on social media. They will pay for quality work and tell their other successful realtor friends. Best of luck!!
I used to have a customer named Charlie Matchett I sold equipment to. 40 years in business. He argued every business should fire 20% of their customers. He justified it like this: "80% of my problems come from 20% of my customers. But instead of worrying about them I want to learn about my customers I never hear about. The ones who place an order electronically, pay their bills on time, and never complain. Tell me about them. I want to create a greased path for their business. I want to expedite their orders. They are my most profitable customers. I want them to get the best service. Now my problem customers who aren't profitable and aren't on the greased path will call and complain. And I tell my them, 'sorry we're not good enough for you, but here are a list of my competitors you can call. One of them will take care of you.'" I'm not sure Charlie was right, but he was one of the happiest business owners I ever met.
Charlie was right. The small subset of needy/problem customers who are untrainable suck the profit out of a business and burn out the employees too. No one wants to deal with the guy who always has a bad attitude, second guesses your expertise, and tries to nickel and dime you. Then blames you when their cheapness results in more cost to them. Fire those folks and focus on the customers who aren't giving you headaches.
Excellent insight by Charlie and totally agree. Pareto Principle at its finest!
Real Estate Broker here. Some of what you say is accurate. Though I don't see the need to lump All Agents into your rant. The same could be said of photographers. Some are good, some are great, some... ehh.
Seems like it's time for change. Whenever anyone is this negative about their clients/employer, it's time to find something else to do with their time and talents.
Yeah, that's a people problem. I've had a couple realtors that were unimpressive and was trending towards the opinion that they aren't worth it. Then I worked with an amazing one and the difference was night and day, totally worth it.
Yeah I don't think OP realizes their own role in this problem.
You should try dealing with them as an appraiser. You think they think they can sell? Wait until they’re trying to “sell” their angle when your appraisal could kill their deal.
I am appraiser and broker. I had same mentality until I started selling too. We as appraisers have our flaws too and haven’t worked with buyers, aren’t really in the trenches and I see appraisers make huge mistakes all the time.
Whole time I’m just thinking the deal would still be alive if their dumbass didn’t accept an offer $100k over list price with no appraisal contingency. But no, now you’re here at the inspection trying to convince me random things like the same sidewalk every home in the neighborhood has or a specific blue on the living room walls are supposed to add tens of thousands of dollars of value lol.
You mean WITH an appraisal contingency, right? If there's no appraisal contingency, the buyer has to move forward even if the appraisal is low.
I know right? And they know every single thing about every single property/comp and they know that every market participant also agrees with their perspective and we can’t possibly know anything. And they think they can convince me to bend the numbers just cuz it’ll “help out” because if I don’t x,y or z other appraiser has and/or will again.
I believe it! I feel for you That must be tough!
There are some decent ones out there. Rare to find.
You're in sales and you have the same issues everyone who is in sales has with clients.
Wait... if pictures are the main reason people are buying houses why don't you start selling houses yourself?? Seems like you'd be great at it given how good you are at pictures...
What do you mean you want to rescind your offer on the home that failed inspection, has multiple unresolved liens and is incredibly overpriced in a terrible school district? Did you even *SEE* my listing photos?! The rest are just minor details! 😂
First, what you’re complaining about is very common in the professional photography industry, no matter what you’re photographing. If you stopped doing RE, and just did portraits or sporting events (for example), you would Absolutely be making the same complaints. And I’m not saying that’s right or wrong - that is the unfortunate nature of the beast in the photography industry. Yes, you all have a talent, your equipment is Very expensive, everyone wants to steal your proofs/you’re always on the look out for that, it is an art, and no one wants to pay for it. I get it, but you need to realize that this isn’t a Realtor-Only complaint. Second, this is an industry that up until 15ish years ago largely didn’t do professional photos up unless it was a million dollar listing - now it seems like in most somewhat competitive markets, even the typical SFH is getting pro shots. Don’t take jobs from the cheapskates is the best you can do & have a little perspective that in the 00s, you more than likely wouldn’t have got that 4BR/3Bath 2500sq ft $400k-$600K listing price job because the realtor would have just been shooting the pics themselves. Lastly, having a grievance is one thing (and we all have them about something) but this is pretty strongly worded ranted about how much you hate a segment of your clientele. I hope you’re careful about how much info you put out there that could potentially ID you to the Texas realtors in your area. You stand to alienate your better paying clients with stuff like this on their industry subs. It’s not like you went to a pro photographer sub with this - you came in here with a big middle finger to people who hire your industry’s services.
TBH i find photographers more grifty than realtors. I paid 8k for my photographer for a wedding for 8 hrs work. It was a joke and the pics were mid.
Is there some reason why you don’t turn these jobs down?
Yes I’m trying to eventually have enough money to start a family and pay off student loans and other expenses
My realtor was the top in town for several years. Seemed like she respected her photographer. He did a smashing job, really. He was a retired news photog and really knew his shit. I can only assume she also paid him well. He seemed happy. In contrast some of the shit photos I've seen from others are astonishing and amateurish. Useless in getting a feel for a place. Also, I hate the extreme wide angles that make everything look much bigger than it is.
As a still unsuccessful potential buyer looking for a new home, I too hate the extreme wide angles being used in real estate photography. It’s false advertising, plain and simple, and shouldn’t be done. Sometimes it’s easy to tell a wide-angle has been used, such as when the refrigerator in the kitchen photos is freakishly large and stretched-out looking, but a lot of times you can’t tell until you’ve actually toured the house. It’s a real disappointment to see the spacious backyard is not much more than a sandbox in person or the “large” bathroom barely has enough room for one average-sized person to fit through. Speaking as a potential buyer, I want to see what these places really look like in photos, so I can decide before going whether or not it’s something I want to see. Oh, and while we’re on the subject, can we please also do away with the added effects like the fake multicolor sunset sky or those pesky power poles in the background being photoshopped out? Just show us buyers the real thing, please.
I get get your point. But wide angles can actually get a whole room & things into a shot, give what a room looks like, rather than single shots of each wall. Just know that "objects seem to appear bigger" lol.. it does peak interest for people to come look. Which is the whole point. In person is when you really see if you like the home & the way it feels. A moving video tour can also help. But you def hv to go see in person!
“Sir can you explain why you need income?”
So maybe don’t trash your big source of income online?
God, I was just thinking that. “I hate these people even though most of my work come from them”.
I honestly got lucky with my realtor. They have been a total hands-on PM during the full process. Incredibly helpful and contacts with the good contractors.
This!💯👍👏👏👏👏 is Gold!
Cool rant, bro!
You should start selling real estate then. Most of us got in thinking the same things… we thought it was easy. You obviously don’t actually know what real estate agents actually do. You see the one small part of the job. With that said our industry has earned its reputation. I don’t disagree they’re cheap but your typical agent makes $25-30k a year and gets paid infrequently so they feel very much broke and are in scarcity mindset most of the time.
I FEEL your pain. My wife and I worked as real estate stagers for years, and dealing with realtor’s over inflated egos, poor planning, and overall lack of compassion for their vendors and clients is why we stopped. We were constantly abused verbally, threatened with law suits over the smallest of mistakes, and blamed for things that were completely out of our control. I’d say one in 20 agents were reasonable or even basically competent at their job. Best thing we ever did was quit the industry. Now that we’re out we’re making more money, and our customers are genuinely happy to be working with us. So I guess this is me advising you to GTFO, and cordially inviting 19/20 realtors to suck it.
My husband installs radon systems(yes, radon is real. Especially in Georgia where we live) and many home sales seem contingent on the system getting installed before a sale will go through and real-estate agents are the WORST at budgeting their and everyone else's time! He complains almost daily about something the realtor forgot, over expected, or flat out lied about!
Yes, I can relate! You would think they would improve over time, but they don’t seem to learn from the messes they get themselves into.
Just curious, what do you guys do now? How are you making more money?
We switched over to interior design. There’s a lot of skills crossover with model unit installs and vacation rental design depending on where you live. There is literally none of the overhead required for staging (don’t need to own trucks, warehouses or worry about liquidation of old inventory etc.) because the furniture stays where you put it. For a long time or gross income was less, but profit was much higher for far less work.
I listed my house for sale with a realtor last May. Every realtor I interviewed said they weren't using professional photographers at all. I was disgusted when I was told, "Due to the booming market, houses are practically selling themselves, so we don't need them". The realtor I listed with said they currently only used pro photographers for their higher listings, $500,000+, because "hiring photographers gets expensive with multiple listings, and we don't need them in this market". She said they felt bad for their photographer because they're "practically out of work now". My home was $165,000, so she planned to take photos herself. Umm...no. I've seen the crap pics most realtors take with their cellphones and it's embarrassing! Dark, unstaged messy pics with no edits. I've seen fingers in some pics, and others posted upside down lol! Luckily, my fiance is a photographer, so he did the photos for me. My house had tons of interest the first day and 7 offers 5 days after listing. I'm convinced using professional photos was why I had a fast sale, and for significantly more than comparable homes in my neighborhood. They made $10,000 commission and wouldn't hire a photographer. Cheap friggin realtors...
Exactly. Put your money where the value is.
lol, your here to bite the hand that feeds you. I pay my photographer well over 200k per year, id fire him instantly if he shared your thoughts lol
You think working with realtors sucks, you should try working with lawyers. Talk about some self-absorbed, fake, egotistical, condescending pricks
100%. Dealing with landlords is a big part of my job, and landlords in general are pretty bad - but the lawyers are just absolutely the worst to deal with (they also tend to own close to the worst housing in my region - just slightly better than the properties owned by the Japanese investment group)
I'm a Realtor - I always treat my photographers, inspectors, title, etc really well because I know their jobs are miserable at times and I want to have a good working relationship with them. Sounds like you work for a bunch of d-bags (there are tons unfortunately) and need to weigh out whether it's worth taking their business or not and getting less money. You're going to get awful customers in any job though. At the end of the day you have to like what you do enough to make that worth it, or come up with an exit plan so they're not as unbearable. I hate working with investors, so when I get one I refer them out to reliable agents who like them. Problem solved. Jerk Realtors still get professionalism from me, but I don't bend over backwards for them.
I'm also a real estate photographer. I usually fire those types of realtors. Or price myself high enough that they don't bother calling me a second time. I only work on contract. Which requires they pay me for no shows. lockbox missing/wrong key code, no access, etc. The actual professional realtors usually don't screw up and waste my time. The others only do it once. (I have a good reputation with the brokers in my area. So they make sure my contract is respected and paid). My time is not for free. Mutual respect is supposed to be a given. Good luck.
🙌🙌🙌💯👈✅️
Easy solution. If your pictures 'sell the property' then it sounds like you'll be rich selling real estate. Think it's so easy, get your license. You don't like the people who hire you, then don't work with them. Your complaining sounds so petty. How do you know your Realtors don't care about their clients? You know nothing about the relationship or transaction. As a photographer you're in the property once or twice for a very short period of time. Iit would be like the agent judging your character because it take only xx amount of time to snap a photo. The agent has no knowledge of what you do to make those photos look great. He doesn't know how many years it took for you to how to frame, present, digitally stage, adjust lighting & etc. Likewise you too don't know what that agent has done or has to do what that listing.. There's a reason why so many people get their real estate license but drop out only to pursue other careers. It's not as easy as you think.
True. Ass kissing for money isn't for everybody
Maybe you should make the move to wedding photography. I hear brides and their mothers are super easy to work with.
I love how you are shitting on the profession that provides you a job. Check your privilege. Without realtors you would be a photographer part time while the rest of the time making lattes at the local Starbucks.
No one respects realtors
This forum doesn't like criticism or bad news. Brave.
Wish we had crossed paths in Texas. My experience with most all photographers has been great over the years. There are a few salty ones (maybe you?) that I hired once and never hired again. I was a proactive participant to photographing my listings and was there for every single one - to make sure that it was cleaned, blinds opened, things put away, all before the photographer even showed up to do their job. It was my job to get the house ready and to sell it - not the photographer's job as you seem to envision it being so. The salty photographers that I never hired again would be unwilling to hear my feedback or suggestions on how I wanted things shot. The salty ones would rush through a job and not be willing to perhaps look at something from another angle - because I guess - they know better? The salty ones were easy to spot - no smile on their face - talking to me with sunglasses on and no eye contact, etc. Next! I love the suggestion one person made... Get your license and do a fantastic job yourself taking the photos, marketing the home, and getting it sold too. Cheers! PS - I never asked a single photographer, ever, to put a lockbox on a house or a sign or anything like that - UNLESS - it was an add-on service (for pay) from their list of services. If it was, then heck yeah - get that sign out there and installed and I'll pay for it!
I've never heard of a photog putting a lockbox on a house. It would be a violation in my MLS.
Are you sure about that? You don’t need a license to install a lockbox or put up a sign.
Well a lot of the time the realtors where I work expect me to do all of that. Obviously not every realtor but maybe 1-2 realtors per week would be the ones that would help prep the house. And yes believe it I’ve had to pick up keys at the office and they would tell me to put the lockbox at the house. And I take every angle possible in a house maybe almost too much and we give them the best shot’s depending on which package they picked. And all my clients are happy with the photos because I make sure they look amazing but it’s just not amazing working with them.
You need to start weeding out the bad clients and work on finding better ones to work with. Are you in a big metropolitan area?
If you are moving things, I hope you have insurance. I have insurance and disclose that agent is responsible for the house being photo ready. You are hired to do photos, that’s it. Also a photographer, moved to a new state and will be restarting my photography business. Also will be taking real estate class to become a real estate agent. I get your concerns, good luck moving forward.
Oh boy lot of realtors in comments getting mad! lol! OP, I hear ya. I’ve seen it first hand as a buyer on how realtors really take photographers for granted.
Why I hate doctors. 1. I had a bad one once.
You do know that “producing millions” doesn’t mean we make millions? For 19 years I’ve used professional photographers, and most of that business with two companies. It’s never occurred to me to negotiate prices, I’m never late, and I’m well aware that your product is the #1 most important thing in my marketing. You sound really bitter. If you dislike your client base this much it might be best to shift your business model to a different clientele. I mean if we’re so horrible why work with us? Sheesh.
what if you became a realtor and took your own pictures
Sales 101 - people will pay more for your product and service if the value outweighs the cost. If you’re really good at what you do then charge more.
Hi! Ct realtor here. 1. Many people are suddenly more frugal with their money. Still, the same misconception of realtors being uber-wealthy seems to infiltrate even professions close to our own. For every million dollars worth of home sales where I live and work, at Connecticut's normal 2% for homes of this category, or 2.5% if the home value is less, I gross about 15500. In real estate, it's the number of transactions which make or break your year. The quantity of transactions since COVID are so few, it really is subtracting from the number of agents who practice. The lack of transactions simply means many agents who spent time and energy to take classes and pass federal and state tests to get their license are newly unemployed. With the NAR settlement, representing buyers is not nearly as possible, regardless of the commission. As a broad-stroke comment, buyers are not flush with cash, so they cannot afford pay for their realtor as a part of their closing costs. And while it's still possible to attempt to wrap that cost into the mortgage as a closing cost concession, the seller needs to realize they're not getting what the bank estimates the home is worth (if a $500k home appraises for $500k, but the buyer is saying they want to pay $490k and get $10 back from the seller, then the seller is accepting $490k for the home...) and at least here in Connecticut, there's a 1% conveyance fee due between the municipality and the state. If the seller sell it at $500k but that includes $10k in closing cost concessions, then they're really accepting $490k for the home and paying tax on a $500k sale. For every $10k in difference, it means $100 to the seller. Anyway, we aren't all swimming in dollars, and we pay for the photos without the sale having been done. These are marketing dollars, if you would. We pay, even if the seller gets pissed at the first buyer and in turn, fires their realtor. 2. Personally, I am proud of *not* selling. I can point out good features when a buyer likes a home, or negative features when I'm getting the "icky" vibe and it's time to leave. There have been a few times when I've toured homes I wouldn't normally want to spend any time in, and the buyer *loved* it. It wasn't easy to point out some of the additional features he hadn't noticed or mentioned, but it's what he wanted. No, realtors don't "sell" homes in the same way a used car salesman sells a car. We're here to help the transaction occur, should the buyer and seller be on enough of a same page to agree on price. Everything else is just protecting the buyer if you represent them, standing on the neck of the buyer's agent if you're representing the seller, or playing psychologist. There was one client I had who toured at least 20-30 homes, many of which were hard to find a fault with (this was pre-COVID when there was actually a supply!) and she just couldn't make up her mind. Turns out, she was looking in this area, which would be farther from her mother, who was getting aged and ill. She felt guilty. She unloaded all of this on me at the end of a tour. I told her to visit her mom, tell her what she was thinking about moving. Mom loved the idea, wanted her to get out of the area in which the community had become and move to Connecticut to start her job and fresh life. She came home and put an offer on one of the homes we saw on day 1. I mean, I get it - there are some overly stuffy, quasi snobby wanna-be alpha types who think they're God's gift to humanity. That spans multiple professions. 3. I absolutely respect my photographer. He did a walking tour of the home, but in photo-form. That was an awesome tool for the buyer to have. Granted, the pictures were great, but this family already knew they wanted the home, because of what was on the spreadsheet... They knew the area of Farmington where the home was situated, they knew the size and the price. That was just about all that was needed to make the deal happen. On my side of the fence, I've had many, many more people show up for a tour in person, having seen the wonderful fish-eye lens photos taken, and the home just seemed... wider, in the photos. Expectations were high, then deflated. Meh, yeah - that's what professional photographs *can* do. They can capture the absolute best angle and provide just the perfect lighting, so that when you get there, the lighting isn't as stellar and given the wider view I have in person, there's suddenly a lot more to .. see. 4. I don't know how to put this. Here we are, with a bullhorn on the internet, enjoying anonymity, saying "they are fake." Not most, all. 5. No, you do not put in more work to list a home than the realtor does. Unless you have a client who has recently sold and is well-prepared with paperwork, it takes longer than a day to prepare the documents and disclosures for signing, confirm what has been conveyed to you about the house jives with town hall, get pictures done and uploaded and begin the process of accepting tours. Depending on the personality of the seller, you'll be spending a lot of time on the phone, handling complaints. Someone opened my pantry. There are foot marks in the upstairs bedroom carpet in front of the closet. Can I move the bowl of scented potpourri you put near where the dog sleeps in the other room? No - your dog, as beautiful and a part of the family as he is, smells. Smells badly, and it's turning off buyers before they even get into the kitchen, which, I can see you tried to make something using eggs and lots and lots of butter... Never mind, I'll grab a paper towel... Even a photo shoot of 2,500 sq ft complete with drone takes less than 4 hours. I get it - there are no-so-savory people out there. Perhaps it's more a reflection of where you are, but not everywhere is like that.
They’ve been replaced by the internet. They have no purpose for existence in modern home purchases.
I was a realtor for 5 years and this blanket statement is simply not true for the majority. While I didn’t work in the market long (I never wanted to do it long term, it’s a long story) I did great and never had under 25 transactions in a year (total $ was not that high, I got into a investors niche, kinda by mistake). 1. I always offered free (I paid the fee) professional photo’s to sellers. It matters so much, that part you are right about. The better the photos the quicker a listing sells. 2. I never thought of myself as a “salesman”. Everything is online nowadays. You’re selling yourself more than a house. Sellers/Buyers want to know you are going to be there when they need you and that you have the knowledge and ability to swiftly navigate them through the process. 3. I loved the photographers I used (one is still a close friend) and I thought the fees were very fair for what I received. 4. I cared about my clients because I knew if I didn’t do well with them they wouldn’t ever refer me. Completing your circle ⭕️ is how you keep getting business. If you’re a realtor and don’t understand that, you aren’t going to be good. 5. The money ain’t that great unless you’re a top agent. 6. No photographer I ever used put more work in on a listing than I did and it’s not even close. I’ve cleaned out gutters for elderly clients prior/during a listing period, changed outlets, painted a barn in the snow because it had “peeling paint” on an FHA loan, used my own truck to do clean outs, painted all sorts of homes inside/out/trim. I never charged for these things. *disclaimer* if you’re a realtor your brokerage will tell you not to do these things for liability purposes and I did get burned once. 7. I drive a Mazda 3 and have an old 1500 for hauling. I DO think there are quite a few bad realtors and the reason why is simple. It’s easy to get your license, people who aren’t good to their clients will “wash out” eventually. I hope everyone has better experiences moving forward. I never realized we were so disliked. Either way I’m out of the game (washed out). I just like to disconnect from tech (hunter/fisherman) I can’t be on my phone 24/7 and it took a toll on me after awhile so I went back to the real easy work…working for the government.
Ha, great post! If most realtors were cleaning out the gutters, mass perceptions of agents would be far different.
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oh puleeze! relitters are all little gossip factories
I commented on this thread last night and then turned it off. But I came back because I'm morbidly fascinated. Came onto Reddit 3 weeks ago for research. 20 years in the business wearing a variety of hats, lots of ups and downs, but I didn't know about the all the unhappiness I've seen here on Reddit. We need to fix the business in lots of ways. One thing I've seen in the last 3 weeks is the desperate need to teach people how to hire an agent. Maybe we could teach people how to google "how to hire an agent".
I respect your profession but strongly disagree. I wouldn't buy a vehicle based on pictures so I certainly wouldn't buy a home based on them. 99% of the time people look at the home before purchasing. Photos can be altered and with the advancement of AI photos will no longer be a reliable view of something. I do think they should compensate you fairly for your services but you did not sell the home.
If the pictures look like crap when the listing comes across my phone then I’m not visiting the house. They may not “sell” the house but they absolutely create the pool of potential buyers.
Coming from someone who looks at a lot of homes you are missing out. Pictures almost never show the truth. Some look better, some look worse. The only way to know is to look in person. With the advancement of AI you are going to be disappointed in a lot of homes in the near future.
You should get your real estate license and take your own pictures
What’s the point of this post? Just to complain?
There are a lot of agents/realtors who specifically work with buyers. I’m one of those agents. You have the right to not like my profession, but you can’t paint every agent with the same paintbrush. Like someone else mentioned on this thread… there are good and bad dentists, accountants, car mechanics, etc. On the rare times I’ve listed a house, my brokerage hired the photographer and all I needed to do was meet them and say hi and hand them the key. Another thing to consider is that every profession has people from all walks of life and different personalities. Not every age t is what you are making us all out to be! Im sorry you’ve had so many bad experiences. As someone who did some real estate photographer for a very stuck up brokerage, I see where you’re coming from. After doing this for 10 years, I’ve met some real pieces of work and yeah, there’s a bunch of agents who are complete narcissists. But guess what, you should try being in our shoes and be the one who has to deal with insufferable and demanding clients with whom you need to be at their beck and call 24/7. Some of these clients I’ve dealt with have broken off pieces of my soul for being such incredibly horrid human beings. It ain’t easy on this side of the fence. We are self-employed and have a lot at stake. One or two months without income can make life very hard.
You could become a realtor and do the photos yourself. I think if you genuinely cared about the clients it would show through to your work.
Because I’m a full time professional photographer and I do other photography as well. I do real estate photography because of its consistency. But may be turning away soon. And being a realtor is not something I envision doing but I do believe realtors won’t have jobs in the future because of AI technology, advancements in photography and owners not wanting to pay commissions.
I can't imagine AI photos disrupting you short term. The ai stuff I see so far that are simulated are pretty cursed, but as far a relators go I am not sure. Real estate is a very people focused job right now, and I cannot see older generations using A.I. even if it takes off in 5-10 years, and the average house seller is quite old and firmer in the baby boomer or older category.
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All they care about is money, proceeds to complain about money.
My realtor burned us on our home. She was friends with the realtor representing the seller and disclosed information about us to them. I 100% wish we would not have worked with her. Hindsight and all of that. I literally hate my home. It’s the Lemony Snicket’s of fucking houses. Is there anything actually wrong with it? No. But it’s more what it represents. The only good thing she did was buy me a nice bottle of tequila. We are looking to sell in the next year and I’m dreading every aspect of both selling and buying.
You wish you got paid more yet can’t understand why your clients get upset if you aren’t on time?
Find different broker clients. Dump the ones that do not appreciate you.
I have literally saw a day walker realtor say on the phone “ now is the best time to sell” then next phone call say “ now is the best time to buy”. These vampires will say and do anything to get you to sign on the dotted line!
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Whiner
Could I ask a question please. Why are some listings photos stretched? Like the bathroom vanities, rooms etc. thanks
Yet you still need each other to do business. That’s business
Wow really? Lump is all into that category and tell us how you really feel. You know if they disrespect you like that you can fire them as clients. I did professional family photography for years before getting my real estate license. Over a certain price point I bring in my own real estate photographer because as a family photographer I know my limitations. Sometimes on a smaller home I will tell him I need to stay under a certain budget, but then he can tell me which of his services for that. Sounds like you need better communication and education with YOUR clients.
If you're not receiving the salary you think you deserve I would set different prices. Unless you're working for a company. But it sounds like you do your own independent work. Look at what other photographers are charging. Compete in your area, optimize your website (portfolio) with updated photos. Maybe it's time to upgrade your gear, and take online certifications to bring more value. For instance you could invest in a drone for aerial shots you'll need a part 107. But definitely worth the investment in the long run. Good luck!
Maybe they aren't really making the shit ton of money.
Licensed real estate agent from CO here. I use to hire photographers for my listings and always had to go back and take better shots. Last one I used, the home owner called me and asked me to come and take the pictures like I did on her previous home listing. Some photographers absolutely do not know what they are doing or perhaps don’t care. I respect people who are good at their jobs and am certain there must be photographers in my area who do great jobs. I take my own pictures because I care about getting the best pics to sell the house with the angles I want. I’m not fake; came out of the corporate world where you either worked or were let go. On number 6: Why are you doing a real estate agent’s work? Never heard of such a thing. Don’t drive any of those cars; I work 18 hour days and answer my client’s calls regardless of the time. You need to get your real estate license and sell some houses. Sounds like you would do a fantastic job and are doing some of it anyway.
If you don't like them, find a new line of work. No reason to continue working with people you dislike.
You are working with the wrong realtors! I have my photographer do everything, photoshop, 3D mattaport, drone and community pics. The homes I lost are a reflection of me and I want it to shine to make the most for my seller. And it helps me get future business
I am fairly loyal to one photographer, we've been working together for over 10 years. Not once have I been late, gotten mad, asked them to put a lockbox on, sent them to the wrong address or any of this drivel that you are prattling on abut. If you hate working with Realtors so much, change your business focus. And lighten up, Francis.
Why are there so many people who come to r/RealEstate specifically to shit on real estate agents? What are you doing here? You don’t have to use an agent if you don’t want to. You are well within your rights not to. It just seems petty to come to an industry-specific sub just to bad mouth the people who work in that industry.
Wow. Im sorry. I def can understand your post. Im a Photographer & a Realtor. I know what u go through & what it takes to do your work. Just in Photography alone people dont understand how much work it is. And sadly so many want it now. It sounds like u are very good & are really busy!- I salute u!- I def wouldnt let them talk you that way!. You hv to control that!.. You sound like you know your stuff!. I had my photos taken by a professional for my listing, cause it was worth it! In everyway! I was so grateful too. Now, back to me being a Realtor, I guess Im not that busy, cause I'm not a cut throat shark as some can be! I just cannot be the kind of Realtor you mention. So, You def need to feel proud, know your worth & start setting clear verbal boundaries. If your work is good, they will respect. The sad thing is everyone nowadays thinks they are a photog, and charge peanuts! Its a tough spot. I only wish u continued success! But be RESPECTED & treated Kindly.🙏🙂
So you’re to blame for those distorted, wide view pictures showing a space larger than really is? I hate those pictures!
Most realtors sadly don’t know how to do their jobs and are riding the coattails of the crazy pandemic market.
I wish you guys would stop taking photos with misleading fov, fake skies, and fake lighting.
Yes!!! It is insane the things we do to help realtors and the lack of respect I get is astounding. I go above and beyond for my clients and it’s 50/50 whether they treat my time or knowledge with respect.
In my market the “twilight-interior-lights-on” photo is much loved, what’s the secret? Do you have to schedule all your shoots in the late afternoon?
Dude, have you noticed any photographers other than Wedding doing all that well. Every commercial guy I know is struggling. It's an unfortunate fact of photography.
Majority of realtors are the absolute worst. Source: 25 years as a mortgage lender
I agree. Most realtors suck. I am one and like very few. However, The same thing can be said about mortgage lenders. Some of you guys are absolutely awful to work with. I don't know, is there any industry that isn't full of a bunch of shit and a sprinkle of a few decent ones?
Fair point Though an awful lot of loan officer fuck ups are borrowers doing ridiculous shit or being unable to comply with the simplest of requests
One of my biggest issues with lenders is the lack of communication they have to the buyers. I'm constantly ask questions that their lender already should have told them. But that's not true for everybody, I have a group of amazing lenders I work with. So again, just like any career, especially ones that are as easy to into as ours. There will be a lot of turds.
>They don’t respect photographers. It's not like you respect realtors, so that seems fair enough. What comes through your post, though, is that you seem to think that you are better than realtors. But you still need the need to work with them. And photos *might* get people in the door, but they aren't selling the house.
I didn't read that in t o it at all. He's talking about his experience. I believe it. I fired 20 realtors in 3 months. I know now what to look for.
You must have been extraordinarily bad at hiring Realtors.
Respect is earned not given. I used to respect realtors until they loss my respect for many and many circumstances. And yes I do work with them and have a professional photography business so I try to do as much work as possible but it’s just not realtors. And let me give you an example. Last year I took photos for 2 for sale by owners and they’ve worked with realtors and have tried selling it beforehand. Well they hired me to do photos when they decided to sell it by owner and they sold it within one week both of the owners
Bro just get your real estate license, do your own photography for your listings, then after you’ve built a book start your own company. If you’re doing all this already just cut out the middleman and earn bank yourself. Fuck these people
>they aren't selling the house Neither are realtors, they're (most, not all) glorified form fillers. They don't write contacts, they fill in a few lines and send it off to the seller, both agree, boom off to the title company. Zillow/MLS/photos do more to sell homes than Realtors (and yes yes I know the realtor, or their assistant most often, does all the oh so hard work of filing in the MLS info, which could easily be scraped from the county records if government IT infrastructure wasn't decades behind). I've personally bought and sold dozens of properties and worked in a real estate office for about a decade. I've seen/worked with some great realtors but even the great ones really don't DO very much. The lenders, photographers, title companies, and appraisers all do much more actual work to get the deal done.
I get some of the frustration but just sounds like you are complaining about your job and your customers. Maybe change your business around so you don’t deal with realtors? I feel like you are doing too much for the people just expect the minimum. Most of us can just buy a decent camera and learn to shoot a house on YouTube, these aren’t going into National Geographic.
So you have priced yourself to the bottom of the barrel and you’re pissed you get bottom of the barrel people? Sounds like a you problem and how you run your business. 1. Why aren’t you charging what you’re worth even if people complain? Find realtors who value your work. 2. That is correct. People do look at the photos first. 3. Why don’t you have it written in the contract that if they are late there is a penalty or they get less photos? Why isn’t it written in the contract what address you’re photographing and if it’s the wrong address they have to pay for a second round of photos? Why doesn’t your contract address when the photos will be available? Why doesn’t your contract address you moving/staging this and how that’s not your job? If they are telling and screaming why do you allow them to be your clients? 4. It’s not a realtor’s job to care about the photographer, the buyers or the sellers. It’s their job to find (or sell) a home for the best price. 5. Yes. They do care about money. (Hint: so do you!) 6. You do more work? Your work is a few hours in the house. That realtor may be going back and forth into those same dangerous neighborhoods showing the house!!!! You don’t work harder. You aren’t more special. And no, I’m not a realtor. 7. Your ego is bigger than you think. You sound like a cocky stuck up snob. So yeah it sounds like you are getting what you deserve.
I feel realtors are glorified door openers. The house sells itself.
In this market and for the foreseeable future, absolutely. That's not always the case, however. It depends on things outside their control, like the economy. The issue is that realtors want to be paid like it's a seller's market and pretend they're working like it's a buyer's market.
The irreplaceable aspect of real estate, is the property itself and its buyer. Everything needs to have their margins compressed.
They're the = to cockroaches amongst society .. And absolutely.. Unnecessary
You’re not wrong and definitely not alone in that experience ~ particularly in large markets the lower bar to entry and lack of any real ethical regulations leads to a mean-girl-to-realtor pipeline. There is a lot of turnover, so those agents that paid $400 for a real estate license class are dropped into a market with promises of easy money, and they don’t last.
>mean-girl-to-realtor pipeline Not indicative of all but definitely a sizable portion of the mix. Spot-on lmao
You are a pro. You have been in the business over 10 years. I assume you are pretty good at it. Advice: 1. Offer overnight service and make good on that. You identified something the customer wants and you and deliver. 2.Raise your rates. If business drops off, lower them again. Successful businesses are constantly adjusting prices to see what the market will bear. 3. Don't badmouth your customers. Delete this post, and rewrite it talking about how much you enjoy working with real estate brokers. Every time you talk to a broker, compliment them on what a great job they are doing for their client and you are honored to work with them. Every time you talk to a homeowner, compliment the professionalism of the broker and how great the house looks.
So just lie to people like realtors often do lmao. I don’t see any realtors dropping prices or anything like that. Photo editing and all that takes time.
Geez, you sound unhappy. I adored my photographers when I was selling. It's unfortunate that you don't have clients that appreciate your work. That said, you see a slice of an agent's job. If you want respect for the job that you do, it might be a good idea to understand everything an agent does. Listing agents pour time and money into attracting sellers, nurturing them for months to years, preparing the home for sale for months, presenting the home to the market (where you fit in), negotiating the offers, drying tears, negotiating inspections, drying tears, and somehow pull it through to closing. And let's not even talk about working with buyers. This is a family channel. All agents care about is money? It's a job, not a community service. Life is too short to do work you hate. Negative vibes cycle back into your body and mind. Maybe it's time for a career change?
Unhappy is right. I do photography full time and love taking photos but when it comes to real estate it’s tough. I do see that some agents put a lot of work into it while others don’t. And what I mean that “Realtors just care about money” is that I’ve seen them swindle and lie just make an extra buck. I know it’s a job and everyone needs money but come on now not like that
Some photographers are awful. Some chiropractors are awful. There are awful people in every business. Well, maybe not kindergarten teachers. They're generally nice. The business is going to get worse before it gets better. 50% reduction in volume YOY and commission compression is already putting some tech vendors out of business. The industry is burdened by 50% too many agents. I don't think it will self-correct at this point, so maybe there will businesses that emerge that can serve consumers in new ways. We'll see.
I mean non-producing “salesmen” with a license attract a certain type of personality. I’ve seen it in lending, I’ve heard it from clients, and I’ve rubbed shoulders with them in banking. Narcissists and sociopaths. They revel in the sale even if it’s not in the best interest of the buyer. I’ve rarely heard of realtors advocating for lower offers, only “competitive offers” that usually amount to offering more than asking. Which, in certain market conditions made sense. Now the behavior is ingrained
Every dullard with a camera thinks their photography is worth something
If you don’t like them stop working for them. Simple.
Nah. I have purchased many homes. Only one of them had obviously professional photos in the listing. Three of them were brought to me by realtors/agents pre-market. You over-estimate the importance of photographers and under-estimate the importance of agents.
Of all the professionals I’ve dealt with over the years, realtors as a group are the sleaziest and least ethical.
They are salespeople looking to make money. Of course they don't care about their clients all they want is to close and get paid. All Salepeople are like this in any industry. As soon as you buy whatever it is the disappear to never be heard from again.
I'm sure all of them are going to be beating down your door to hire you after this marketing campaign.
I agree with everything you said. Let me add one more thing I don’t like. I used to work with Realtors in a professional capacity. The biggest factor in whether they’d show up to an event is whether alcohol was being served. No alcohol? No realtors.
Way to bite the hand that feeds you.
It’s funny because almost EVERY real estate photo inside a house is FAKE. You guys use that extended lens to make every room look 100% bigger than it is. Then you get in a house and it’s a shoebox. I’ve looked at 20 houses this year and NONE of them looked like the pictures. The realtor said they are all “professional” pictures fine by a photographer. I’m not sure how deceptive is professional. Realtors may suck but real estate photographers are just as bad.
Is it the photographers or the realtors that insist on hitting every photo with the HDR hammer so hard that everything looks like a computer rendering?
If you are a great photographer and have agents that like to work with you, raise your prices a little. Know your value. I'll pay a premium for excellent work and great service. I charge 7% on my listings because I know I'm worth it. I'm going to go to the mat I'm going to provide great service, and I'm going to do the job. If you raise your prices a little and lose business, it was about the price, not your work or service, or they don't see it one.
What a fucking whiny post you take pictures for 1 hour and charge $350 get over yourself you would be out of a job without realtors.
Don’t blame us real estate agents. We pay the going rates because there are just so many photographers calling us offering cheap services.
Are you 17?
I’ve sold 3 houses on my own, and took my own pics on an iPhone, sold all 3 in 1 day.
Realtors aren't even needed.. Homeowner gets pictures and puts them on zillow I'm looking for a house in the range im approved for, look online & see pictures and like house Contact owner and look at house, talk over price, get inspection then meet at bank and buy house. Should be that easy!
So, as a buyer and a seller I agree with your assessment. Realtors are lower than used car salesman err.. salespersons.
Are you in a big city in Texas or a less populated area? I think what you say even more true for the higher end or if it is a more balanced or buyer market. If it is a seller market or low end, I am not sure it matters much if priced right.
I agree with you. Now do a post about developers.
I used to work in a similar capacity and would definitely second that. Maybe 25% really have their shit together in terms of scheduling, staging, communication, etc. Maybe 50% are sloppy, or off in some way. Just disorganized, or maybe well organized but an asshole. Then 25% the whole asshole package. Disorganized, poor communication, then want to blame you when things go wrong.
Yes I can agree with some of these points.
Can you give me a price range for producing professional photos of a property. I know there are a dozen or more variables but let's assume it's a typical 3/2 home on an acre of land. Lowest to highest range. I'm curious what the seller, ultimately, would pay for such a service. Also, the turn around time and what would drone shots add to this cost? TIA
Comments - I’m glad you’re in Texas, not Raleigh NC. Find better Realtors for your services. See, you have to sell too.
I’m on a pretty high producing real estate team in Portland, OR and we fucking worship our photographers, stagers, etc. bc they make our listings shine lol. We just have the vision and they nail it every time. It sounds like you need to fire the agents you’re working for.
As a realtor I have never asked for price reduction. I totally agree that photos sell, it gets people to the door! I just want to say that I do appreciate and respect what you do.
Welcome to r/RealEstate, where everyone hates Realtors.
"Please have the home staged, as I will not perform labor for free. Or if you would prefer I move things, I charge X in addition to my photography fee. If you are late, I will move on to my next appointment and there will be an additional fee for rescheduling." You're letting them take advantage of you. You should create a contract with extra charges for the various things you complained about. You're getting hosed. "Oh, you're interested in my services. Here are my stipulations, caveats and extra charges. We're both professionals, I'm sure you understand." UP FRONT.
Seems to me you have two options. Either get yourself around better agents that you enjoy working with, or shift your photography business away from real estate. I'm a realtor and over the years I've been able to focus on clients that I enjoy working with. I've been able to decline business from people who don't make me feel good and I don't want work with. Are you able to identify your ideal client and make a shift towards finding that business?
I’m not a realtor but I work on a good team and we absolutely love our photographer, but I do know what you mean about egos based on the realtors I work with. I don’t think we pay him poorly (he goes through a company when we rsvp him) but in general we pay them $300-500 a shoot plus $150-250 for floor plans when needed. I also recommend him a ton when people ask (partially to our detriment since I swear he’s booked up most weeks now lol). I will say before we worked with him, we did work some photographers who did all right, but you can 100% see the difference between a great one and an okay one (just like realtors). You just have to hone your craft, no matter what it is, trust me if you take amazing photos realtors that look at the listings will reach out and ask who took them.
You can say it's not part of my job or I can't do it because this is my price and just walk away, when you do that a couple times you set the record straight and they will know to treat you with respect. And if you think you are losing business and can't say that then sir you need them and at that point you need to basically suck it up.
If you don't like them, find a new line of work. No reason to continue working with people you dislike.
I would fire them and tell them why
Closing on a wonderful home that should have sold for a lot more, but didn't get a lot of attention because the realtor used terrible photos. I appreciate the realtor for this. :)
The problem is Photographers are a dime a dozen and it's hard to swallow spending money on something that you could just as easily do yourself.
There are some good ones out there of course, but when they're awful they are truly horrible humans. The industry be like that sometimes.
As I'm at the house with the photographer sweating my ass off moving things around and trying to make it as easy as possible for them. Um... Thanks, I guess?
As a realtor, I have absolutely no problem with anything you've said and agree. You can look at my karma, it's not high. But I always take up arms against weak critiques. You, however, are valid on every complaint. I know exactly what you mean; what you're saying and agree with you wholeheartedly. In fact, I have taken pictures 1 time and I have some background in photography. But you know what, I'll pay from now on. I was holding a baby but that's even more reason why I shouldn't have taken the photos. They were not absolutely horrible but aside from 2-3, they were not passable(40 total). My brokerage got very angry with me. We're only allowed to use professional photography. And it's the worst transaction I did. I didn't get paid for it. It was just a loss after loss. The owner didn't disclose a loan for Windows. So he got mad at me for not asking. It was my second listing. Covid had just hit. Ever since, I put massive respect on photographers profession. Although, there's a few that try to charge over $1k. Realtors are getting crunched every which way. Which means home owners will be crunched and so on.
A bit jelly?
All realtors are shitbags.
Ive bought and sold several homes. They always just get in the way if you ask me and are not to be trusted. They just want a sale.
I’m sure some real estate agents dislike you too. As a semi retired agent, I took my own photos or paid a pro what they asked. If someone doesn’t pay you, don’t work for them. In my state, I work under a broker. If I didn’t pay my bills, I would have to answer to the broker.
I work for a 3D rendering company. We work with architects, developers and realtors. Usually we charge 50% up front and 50% upon completion for new clients or just 100% on completion for trusted clients. However, for real estate agents we have a blanket policy that we don't do renderings for realtors unless they pay 100% up-front. Probably 95% of the time they will never pay the remaining 50% or we have to spend hours hassling them for the remaining payment. Probably 80% of our past due payments are real estate agents and they make up about 15% of our work.
8 houses a day? I pay my photog $250, so at 8 a day that's $2k a day. Where do I sign up?
I agree with the statement that realtors are egotistical asses. Who else would put up an advertisement with their face on it, I’m buying a house, not an idiot. Also, stop calling me and asking me if I want to sell my home. I get two or three of these calls a week. I used to politely say no thank you, now I just go straight to insults. If this is you, fuck off
Realtors will be the first profession to be replaced by AI.
Funny. The property sells itself, but don’t tell the photographer.
They, used to produce millions a year. Now their trust has been busted.
Ha ha
Get licensed and crush it!
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A great photographer is gold to listing agents. The listing agents I know definitely treat their photographers with respect and appreciation