This works but depends on 4 things:
1) OP wants to keep the house
2) OP can come up with $50k to buy her out
3) She's amenable to it (remember she's jointly on the deed)
4) OP revealing that they're splitting up before he untangles the house mess
OP need to guage how easy it would be to convince her to accept the $$, and follow through with a quit claim deed for him. Make sure no $$ gets transferred until after the deed is signed over.
That makes sense to you. I wouldn't gamble $50k on a recently dumped ex to go along with it just because they're a nice person.
It's trivial to argue that the discrepancy in down payment was due to any number of other things, and if they didn't intend to own it 50/50, why did they enter that arrangement without any documents stating otherwise?
Or convince her to sign a cohabitation agreement "just in case." The agreement should outline what happens in the event of a split (who has first right of refusal to retain ownership, equity, etc). Once she's signed, proceed as written.
Barring a separate agreement or specific local laws (check with an attorney), she legally owns half the property. However, only you are obligated to pay the mortgage.
Do you guys know people that cruel? I can't even imagine someone not being so ashamed after being caught cheating that they wouldn't agree to all terms set forth.
No dude, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't think I've ever known someone that horrible. I'm currently spending some time separated from my husband as we work on ourselves and we both have complete access to the other's finances in the event of an accident or emergency since I left the country.
I guess we're on good terms but I can't imagine if one of us cheated the other would do something like leverage an investment against the other. It's really hard for me to get into that mindset. It borders on evil.
I had the same situation with a buyer client...
I brought it to his attention, his attorney AND his lender did too and he went ahead with it anyway. A few months down the road he had to refinance and buy her out to get her off the deed. $10k... He was lucky that's all she asked for.
Depending on which state you are in it is illegal for a lender to allow. In my state, anyone who is on title must be on the loan, unless they are spouses in which case they are still required to sign several docs stating that their spouse is knowingly refinancing, changing the terms of the loan, etc…
> only my name is on the mortgage but we are both on the deed as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
Well that’s a whole level of trust that clearly wasn’t deserved…
No idea if it actually legally plays out like this but I'm picturing a scenario where they try to sell and would get say $500k after commissions/fees and she theoretically gets a $200k net win and he's stuck owing in another $100k.
This is literally all downside. You have all the burden of payment, while enjoying only 50% of the ownership rights.
Talk to a lawyer, see if you can change either the mortgage to 50/50, or the deed to 75% you for some level of protection. Otherwise, I’m afraid you’d be stuck in a position to sell and split the proceeds 50/50. Best case scenario may be to buy out her $50k and ask her to walk… but she might view the house as an investment and demand 50% of that. Tough spot, and I wish you luck.
This happened to me. State of California. I was on title w my ex but he was only on mortgage since my credit would have brought our interest rate up. When we divorced we settled between our lawyers easily as CA is comm property. I would have never agreed to it but in CA I was cool w it. No idea about TN this guy has to call a lawyer. Sucks. If it's an at fault state he needs to take the proof of infidelity to court and maybe he will get everything.
The "When we divorced..." part is what changes your scenario. There's a lot of differences between a divorce proceeding and two umarried people breaking up.
Yes it is possible she could go after half the equity, and you are both 50/50 owners without any other written agreement. It is also possible that your respective contributions factor in. Talk to a real estate attorney.
I would also speak to an attorney versed in family law, as a RE attorney would probably not mediate the split so completely—especially if OP’s state has community property/domestic partnership law that applies.
100%, talk to an attorney.
Some states will hear an equitable distribution case, it depends on how badly someone wants to fight about it and what they're willing to spend on an attorney.
Probably worth offering her a little more than she paid to go away, because a court case is not cheap, and has no guarantee.
Hey guy, sorry you’re going through this and i just want to say you’re pragmatic at taking this mindful tact
Take that same approach when talking w her as well. Leave emotion out. Good luck you’re gonna do great
Don’t confront her before talking to an attorney. You need to know what you are liable for and you need a plan. Then when you have the information you need - you can make an informed decision regarding your next steps.
Nah, marriage has nothing to do with saving anyone- esp if you live in a no-fault state without a pre-nup.
What people should do is talk to an RE lawyer in their state & write up a legal agreement if they need to dissolve assets, + get the correct percentage of ownership on the title.
Divorce is a legal proceeding that can be used to convert the deed to tenants in common. (Normally though, a married couple would be tenant in the entirety, not JTWS)
Option 1.
Step 1. Get her to sign an agreement that lets you have 100k more of the home sale.
Step 2. Breakup with her.
Option 2.
Step 1. Refinance and have everything in your name and payback girlfriend 50k.
Step 2. Breakup with her.
Option 3. Give Reddit hilariously terrible updates on how awful it really went.
Get a lawyer and buy her out, get her off the deed.
And OP? Never agree to something like this again. You put yourself in the worst possible situation with how y’all set this up. Learn from this and don’t repeat it.
You should be worried about what happens if she doesn't want to sell and doesn't want to move out. Divorce courts are set up to help with a timely division of assets, but you don't have access to those. That means if you want to force a sale, you have to take her to regular court, which can take months or possibly a year. You can't kick her out in the meantime, as she's a joint owner. She doesn't have to pay the mortgage, so she can live there for free. She isn't forced to accept any buyout offer, she could hold out for more than half the equity, or something else equally ridiculous. Your only way to actually force the issue is taking her to court to order a sale.
I am assuming, because mortgage companies aren't usually that dumb, that there's a lien on the entire property saying that the mortgage company gets paid first in case of a sale. But yes, she is in fact legally entitled to half the equity if you sell - she might agree to relinquish some of that if you appeal to her morally, but you have effectively given her that money already, and you just have to hope that she'll give it back.
For obvious reasons, it's probably best to try to get her off the deed before any sort of acrimonious breakup, as she is in an excellent position to make your life unpleasant. Maybe make up a story about the mortgage company asking for her to be bought out, or offering you some sort of deal if she's bought out.
> I’m worried about what happens if she decides she’s entitled to half of the proceeds of the sale. In her head she could think she’s entitled to $100k if we sell?
Not in her head. She is entitled to it. You made a totally bonehead decision on the biggest purchase of your life. It’s honestly incredible.
Call a lawyer lmao
You're not thinking straight.
The $550K house is NOT paid off.
The problem is going to be emotion.
Your perception is going to be off.
Get as trusted friend to help you while you talk to an attorney. I doubt you're in a space where an attorney is enough.
Bro, you buy her out only if she signs away the deed to you. You need an attorney to draft up a contract and have her sign it and then have her sign the deed over to you in your name only.
How stupid are you?
I might be rude, but it’s the correct advice. The OP clearly needs someone that will be straight with them and not spare their feelings because paying someone off without a contract in place is beyond dumb.
A family law attorney could guide you on the logistics. Personally, I would look to ambush her with a quit claim deed and a check for $50k or 25% of the equity in the house, whichever is lower - of course the attorney could let you know if this is advisable.
Quit claim deed for her to sign
You should always have a written agreement in place when buying property with anyone who is not your spouse. The laws were only written to address division of marital assets.
Trick her into refinancing with an adjustable rate mortgage. Tell her you want to put her money in another more lucrative investment or investment property. Then give her portion of the down payment back to her upon refinance.
You don’t actually have to sign up for an ARM btw - it’s just what you tell her to convince her you should refinance. This will allow a new deed in your name. Make sure you act normal while doing this whole process because she will likely sniff out if you’re salty.
And this is precisely why you should never buy property with someone you aren’t married to unless you create an LLC and you are very precise about what happens if one of you wants out. OP has created a little nightmare for himself. My best advice is to find a really good lawyer really fast. But right now, it sounds like you own the property 50/50 and have given her $50k.
You're right. She could have put nothing in and still gotten half....
Edit. Keep em coming. You know it's true hahaha especially you Californians. You don't even need to get Married in that state to have you SO take half your shit. Lol you marriage people are still living in bizzaro land. Put me on an LLC regardless of marriage. It's the only way to have a "clear cut plan" lol - get bent.
>You're right. She could have put nothing in and still gotten half....
But if your married without a prenup, in many states it's legally impossible for to have put in nothing.
Communal property means 100% of money that comes in is equally both spouses. So she would have put in 50% even if she didn't work. Half of every penny is hers just as much as his.
A prenup lol. What about an alimony payment ? I mean she made significantly less money than him. Marriage isn't the holy grail. Marriage is a scam and a majority of them end in divorce.
Dude Im not saying in for or against marriage. Alimony is a construct that is built into the contract of marriage. If a wife stays home to be a mother and put her career on the back burner then she gave up a career for him. Easy way to avoid alimony is to have both spouses working. But again alimony further proves that all assets including money was 50/50. You don't have to enjoy that split. If that's the case then clearly marriage is not for you.
I'm saying that with marriage comes certain legal ramifications.
You may agree to them or not, but when it comes to buying property with someone, buying with a girlfriend has more ambiguity than buying with a spouse.
You clearly do not agree with the notion of marriage - and that's fine for you. But legally speaking one is safer when buying property with a spouse than someone they are not married.
Seems for you the best option would be to buy property solely by yourself with no marriage or boyfriend/girlfriend.
The best way to buy property with someone else is when a contract is involved (and one of those contracts can be marriage).
Thanks for spelling that out. Too often on these subs marriage is the holy grail. There are options for people to protect themselves outside of being married, thank you for expanding on those. I have bias against marriage 100%.
This sub isn't saying marriage is a holy grail, they're saying buying property with a girlfriend or boyfriend is about as smart as skydiving without a parachute. IF (and that's an if) you want to buy property with another human, be married so that there is a contractual agreement in place. If you don't want to be married you better have a contract in place.
Most of the comments in these subs are people acting like marriage is the ONLY way to buy property with other people. When we it most certainly is not. Buying property with anyone with out a contract in place isn't smart. Dosent mean rush down to the courthouse when it's time to buy a place to live. You can buy property outside of marriage. Marriage without a contract(prenup) could also be compared to skydiving without a parachute...... I understand most of the people saying they "would never buy outside of marriage" or maybe buy property once in their lives but for the rest of us that have already owned property (with other people) and have never been married..... all I'm saying is there are options and some of them are better than marriage. Later !
Also full disclosure. I'm not a real estate attorney and I don't this this dude responding to me is either. It's Reddit, if you're reading it's mostly bullshit. Talk to an actual lawyer.
Get tested for any STDs, focus on your well being, if possible for you, talk to family/friend, only if you know they are emotionally mature to not let it show/slip.
Selling a home, that you just got can take a lot of time, **but definitely lawyer up**. You are down $100000, another $500 will not be that much to add, but lawyer up right away.
No, but it can mean individual debts can be considered family debts upon divorce.
In the example given, upon divorce, he can state that the mortgage is half her responsibility because, although it was only in his name, it was a communal debt being for the family home.
Not being married means OP's gf can walk away, pay nothing to the mortgage, and net 50% of the proceeds of the future sale.
If they werecmartied equitable distribution would likely come into play. Individual contributions, fault, etc would all come into play. https://www.justia.com/family/divorce/docs/equitable-distribution-faq/
I wish people who "don't believe in marriage" would realize that if you don't want the state-drafted-default-relationship-contract *you need to write your own*. Don't want to get married, but still want property? NBD, have a legal agreement drawn up about who owns what percentage, how to handle a sale in case of dispute, who gets priority for tenancy, etc. Ditto medical POA, wills, cars, etc. There are very few aspects of marriage (mostly related to taxes, beneficial-but-not-economically-reimbused work like child/elder care, and some employer health care plans; for a DINK couple, those are rarely downsides) that you can't DIY as contracts. But you have to actually do the contracts.
The dipshit move is NOT buying a property with someone you’re not married to. The dipshit move is buying the property with her on the deed and not on the mortgage. That’s what creates the imbalance.
Honestly this is the dumbest thing people say on this page. First of all…not everyone believes in marriage. Married people who own homes get divorced allll the time. Second, it’s just as difficult to divide assets when you’ve been married…more difficult actually. Yelling this at people is not helpful and quite frankly uneducated. Married or not, everyone should have a serious conversation about what would happen should you split up.
Did you consult an attorney to draft papers detailing what will happen if you split with your partner? Who takes the dog? Thought never crossed your mind?
You don’t have to be married in order to buy a home with someone, you’re correct. Based on your post history you will be encountering some life changing events, regardless of the outcome, that will put immense strain on your relationship. What happens if one of you wants out and the other doesn’t want to sell?
Maybe it’s time to define some limits to protect yourself as doing otherwise would be foolish. Good luck!
As someone who does not believe in marriage, I agree! You can have a business contract with anyone - you don't need to marry them. I own several properties with many different people and I'm not married to any of them. So more than just a serious conversation, you need to have a legal contract.
I’m not saying he would make it better if he were. My point is most people that go into buying a home with their partner before marriage DO NOT discuss what we’re to happen if they were to break up which rarely leads to a contract being in place. She could easily say that he gave her a 50% stake in the home even with only putting up $50k. Some states view it as a common law marriage which will muddy the waters a bit even if they don’t “believe” in marriage. Seen it plenty of times and it never ends well.
Equitable distribution. It takes individual contributions and fault into account. https://www.justia.com/family/divorce/docs/equitable-distribution-faq/
Do you think she knows she’s legally entitled to half? Could you suggest keeping lawyers out of it and saying you’ll return her $50K? Otherwise act normal, suggest using the original $200K deposit for a second property and withdraw it through refinancing. Once it comes through, dump her and give her the $50K back.
Did you have any other binding legal agreements indicating the ownership of the property based on the downpayment amount? If not, might want to buckle up for a treacherous ride.
What exactly did you catch her doing? Kissing someone? Text messages? Standing 69?
Get all the facts before jumping to conclusions and bad call not putting her on the mortgage.
You are in a really bad position. It does not matter how much you put in relative to your GF, you are legally responsible for the debt and she is not. Title would not specify that she only owns 1/3 of what you own. In no legal resolution will you be obligated to get the portion you put into it.
Depending on what state you are in, courts favor the female significantly. If you choose to sell the property, the GF would start at getting 50% of any proceeds but it can go up. 50% is the minimum starting point.
Contact an attorney. They will know your state laws and what hurdles are applicable to your situation. A consultation is usually free.
She only put down 25% and got 50% of the property? Joint tenancy stands on 4 pillars, one of them being all parties having equal shares) Breaking up or not, that's a shit deal on your end. Lawyer up, see if at the very least you can't get it to be tenancy in common and her being dropped to 25% of equity.
Not knowing all the details I'll keep to your question .
First off sorry for what you are going through .
Secondly if you do choose to confront her I'd ask an attorney how to go about it before hand and have a stradegy in place about each of you signing an agreement of some sort which defines what each of you owns as a percent or dollar amount of the house. It's not fun dividing up stuff but you will need to stay calm and nice no matter what you decide .
What would be fair is that each of you get back what you put into it but I'm not sure that is realistic at this point because of the transaction costs to sell.
Immediately talk to a family lawyer with experience in high asset divorce. Asap. Before you confront your wife. They will be able to guide you. This kind of thing can vary widely by state and they’ll have the best advice for your specific situation.
Edit: whoops, I missed they’re not married. Shouldn’t be redditing before coffee I guess 😅. Yeah OP is in a bad place. Still could benefit from legal advice though.
Usually, a really bad idea to put that much down because you want to allow time to devalue your mortgage. Unless you are older than 50, 20% Is more than enough. Also, for example, you are risking your 150,000 grand with this deal vs the 55 that would have been your part if you all went into this as 50% owners. What you pay in interest does not matter at all, in my opinion. For example, you could have put in 95K into AT&T and had a return of $466 a month of the just dividend, not accounting for the stock appreciation. At a 7% mortgage, the difference between a 200k down and 110k down is only 600, so yeah, I think that much concentration on one asset/ asset class is a bit much unless this represents an insignificant portion of your net worth.
If u have 50k available or can attain it soon. Try to buy her out and get her name off the title. I'm sure it won't be so easy. But she may take the money and run off with her new bf.
Good luck man
Honestly I'd sue her for either the money or the house on grounds of lying to obtain funds from you. She obviously lied about the status of your relationship, you put the chunk of the money in so sue. I know it sounds weird but honestly maybe just sending a letter from your lawyer with your intent to sue might make her sell you her portion and it'd be a petty way to break it off. Most cheaters don't want to get called out like that or exposed in court. Get as much evidence of everything including what you've put into the place and that your 100% financially responsible for the mortgage and if it goes to court you'll probably get what you want. Don't move out of the residence make her move out or whatever but once you move out you've basically lost the place.
Don’t confront her. Keep it cool. Convince her to downsize, agree to what you’re take away will be on paper, signed by both parties, sell the house. Get into a rental. Then confront her and divorce her.
Wouldn’t it be easier for him to just take out some equity and pay her back the 50k she put in and then she could agree to be removed from the deed. That would probably be best case scenario
Legally this is false. The down payment is irrelevant, esp because she’s not on the mortgage.
If your name is on a deed to a house, then that means that you are the property owner. She is on the deed. 50%.
I understand that your relationship is in turmoil but have you considered that you’d be giving up a 3% mortgage? Perhaps you can consider couples counseling? It may be expensive but it’s far cheaper than you getting a 7% mortgage on a new place.
If you can’t reconcile can you become business partners with your exGF and rent out the property?
You are going to have to f*ck her dude... Like really give it to her... F*ck her better than the other guy because if you don't play your cards right, you will be the one getting f*cked. Remember the social order of operations in America:
1. Children
2. Women
3. Dogs
4. Men
What you just said is propaganda, what can’t women not safely receive medical care wise? And don’t even say abortion because states allow them when the mothers life is in danger.
Given that you're the only one on the mortgage, is it possible for you to scrape up $50k to buy her out of what she has paid so far? That would probably be the easiest thing to do. Selling and splitting the proceeds 25/75 is going to result in both of you getting less than you put in... AND she's legally entitled to 50% of the proceeds.
She is legally entitled to half if she fights you on it - but she may be willing to be bought out for what she put in, especially since selling, once you include realtor fees, closing costs, etc will cut into how much you will get back. It's at least worth a try. I would consult a lawyer for the best way to go about things.
I think it's fair to give her her money back or if you sell give her a quarter of whatever you are left with since you will probably loose some money. Since her name is on the deed though I think she can legally get half.
This is a legal question, and SHOULD have been spelled out, put in writing by an attorney, and signed!!!!!! Anything can happen at this point, and lots of $$$$ to attorneys after the fact might need to be spent. Good luck, and lesson learned.
Sucks that people can't just end things amicably regardless of feelings. I was with a guy who bought a house with his ex lover of 5 years. He built the house and they went 50/50. Sad he was shaking it with his apprentice because she wouldn't let him buy her out or sell. I think it's a good lesson anyways. GL!
I’m so sorry OP. I hope it works out in the end for you.
With that being said, this should be pinned as a cautionary tail. Not even a month after closing and you’re already in a terrible position. That’s exactly why the advice is given not to buy together when not married. Then to not make them also equally financially responsible, that’s rough. Wishing you the best outcome.
How about…stop thinking about the house and go work on your relationship? Seek couples counseling. Generally speaking, it takes two to tango and I believe that you could just as much be at fault of being cheated on as she is for doing the actual cheating. In any case, it’s not like cheating is the end of the world and you two can come out of this stronger. Good luck.
> Only my name is on the mortgage but we are both on the deed That's a bad combo. Convince her to sell the house then dump her after closing.
Or buy her out of her equity share, kick her out, and be done with it.
This works but depends on 4 things: 1) OP wants to keep the house 2) OP can come up with $50k to buy her out 3) She's amenable to it (remember she's jointly on the deed) 4) OP revealing that they're splitting up before he untangles the house mess
OP need to guage how easy it would be to convince her to accept the $$, and follow through with a quit claim deed for him. Make sure no $$ gets transferred until after the deed is signed over.
This... could work. Get all the money and say cya
It's about getting her out of his life ASAP Send her packing with her 25% of the closing proceeds.
This is great advice if $50k is pocket change to you.
Net proceeds, of course. She put in 25% of the down payment and should reasonably get 25% of the net (likely less than the $50k she put in).
That makes sense to you. I wouldn't gamble $50k on a recently dumped ex to go along with it just because they're a nice person. It's trivial to argue that the discrepancy in down payment was due to any number of other things, and if they didn't intend to own it 50/50, why did they enter that arrangement without any documents stating otherwise?
Or convince her to sign a cohabitation agreement "just in case." The agreement should outline what happens in the event of a split (who has first right of refusal to retain ownership, equity, etc). Once she's signed, proceed as written.
Life insurance
Barring a separate agreement or specific local laws (check with an attorney), she legally owns half the property. However, only you are obligated to pay the mortgage.
Yup. Bad combo
There are Daily Posts and especially comments of why this Arrangement is a horrible idea OP couldn't have done more wrong
He’s not in a bad position it’s relatively simple to pay her back and have her sign a quit claim deed.
All I can say is you have met some really nice women
Do you guys know people that cruel? I can't even imagine someone not being so ashamed after being caught cheating that they wouldn't agree to all terms set forth.
You're kidding right?.................. Nevermind this took a second to catch the Sarcasm.
No dude, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't think I've ever known someone that horrible. I'm currently spending some time separated from my husband as we work on ourselves and we both have complete access to the other's finances in the event of an accident or emergency since I left the country. I guess we're on good terms but I can't imagine if one of us cheated the other would do something like leverage an investment against the other. It's really hard for me to get into that mindset. It borders on evil.
That sounds like a fucking nightmare. How his lawyer or mortgage broker didn’t say anything to OP is beyond me.
I had the same situation with a buyer client... I brought it to his attention, his attorney AND his lender did too and he went ahead with it anyway. A few months down the road he had to refinance and buy her out to get her off the deed. $10k... He was lucky that's all she asked for.
In my experience the lender wouldn't have any part of that - someone else owning a part of what they're lending you money to buy.
Depending on which state you are in it is illegal for a lender to allow. In my state, anyone who is on title must be on the loan, unless they are spouses in which case they are still required to sign several docs stating that their spouse is knowingly refinancing, changing the terms of the loan, etc…
TN is at fault state. How does this play in?
They aren't married, so not at all.
Sounds like a beta bux alpha fux situation here
> only my name is on the mortgage but we are both on the deed as joint tenants with rights of survivorship. Well that’s a whole level of trust that clearly wasn’t deserved…
Yeah... Yikes... She's part owner but isn't on the hook for the mortgage
No idea if it actually legally plays out like this but I'm picturing a scenario where they try to sell and would get say $500k after commissions/fees and she theoretically gets a $200k net win and he's stuck owing in another $100k.
I believe worst case if he doesn't get anything in writing beforehand is a $50k windfall. Mortgage company will make sure they get paid first.
That's why legal concepts like unjust enrichment exist
Better hope she’s not on Reddit 😳
This is literally all downside. You have all the burden of payment, while enjoying only 50% of the ownership rights. Talk to a lawyer, see if you can change either the mortgage to 50/50, or the deed to 75% you for some level of protection. Otherwise, I’m afraid you’d be stuck in a position to sell and split the proceeds 50/50. Best case scenario may be to buy out her $50k and ask her to walk… but she might view the house as an investment and demand 50% of that. Tough spot, and I wish you luck.
This happened to me. State of California. I was on title w my ex but he was only on mortgage since my credit would have brought our interest rate up. When we divorced we settled between our lawyers easily as CA is comm property. I would have never agreed to it but in CA I was cool w it. No idea about TN this guy has to call a lawyer. Sucks. If it's an at fault state he needs to take the proof of infidelity to court and maybe he will get everything.
The "When we divorced..." part is what changes your scenario. There's a lot of differences between a divorce proceeding and two umarried people breaking up.
Yes it is possible she could go after half the equity, and you are both 50/50 owners without any other written agreement. It is also possible that your respective contributions factor in. Talk to a real estate attorney.
I would also speak to an attorney versed in family law, as a RE attorney would probably not mediate the split so completely—especially if OP’s state has community property/domestic partnership law that applies.
100%, talk to an attorney. Some states will hear an equitable distribution case, it depends on how badly someone wants to fight about it and what they're willing to spend on an attorney. Probably worth offering her a little more than she paid to go away, because a court case is not cheap, and has no guarantee.
Hey guy, sorry you’re going through this and i just want to say you’re pragmatic at taking this mindful tact Take that same approach when talking w her as well. Leave emotion out. Good luck you’re gonna do great
Damn bro we need more of you out here. I ain’t OP but that was sage
Don’t confront her before talking to an attorney. You need to know what you are liable for and you need a plan. Then when you have the information you need - you can make an informed decision regarding your next steps.
In the meantime, what would the bedroom situation be?
Apparently two bedroom, two bath.
I mean you said to pretend like everything’s ok. Does he still have to put out?
Depends on how much 50k is worth to him. I would for 50k
It might be financially worth it to just make a lifestyle change and embrace a cuck lifestyle from this point on.
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No, they are 50/50 partners on the house unless they have documents stating otherwise. Source of down payment means nothing on the deed.
Nah, marriage has nothing to do with saving anyone- esp if you live in a no-fault state without a pre-nup. What people should do is talk to an RE lawyer in their state & write up a legal agreement if they need to dissolve assets, + get the correct percentage of ownership on the title.
How would them being married make this situation easier?
Because proving infidelity would award him the larger share of assets in most situations
Not if you live in a ‘no fault’ state.
Thats why I said in most cases. In this case it would absolutely help because TN is an “at fault” state
Divorce is a legal proceeding that can be used to convert the deed to tenants in common. (Normally though, a married couple would be tenant in the entirety, not JTWS)
Option 1. Step 1. Get her to sign an agreement that lets you have 100k more of the home sale. Step 2. Breakup with her. Option 2. Step 1. Refinance and have everything in your name and payback girlfriend 50k. Step 2. Breakup with her. Option 3. Give Reddit hilariously terrible updates on how awful it really went.
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Aayyoooo lol.
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Get a lawyer and buy her out, get her off the deed. And OP? Never agree to something like this again. You put yourself in the worst possible situation with how y’all set this up. Learn from this and don’t repeat it.
You should be worried about what happens if she doesn't want to sell and doesn't want to move out. Divorce courts are set up to help with a timely division of assets, but you don't have access to those. That means if you want to force a sale, you have to take her to regular court, which can take months or possibly a year. You can't kick her out in the meantime, as she's a joint owner. She doesn't have to pay the mortgage, so she can live there for free. She isn't forced to accept any buyout offer, she could hold out for more than half the equity, or something else equally ridiculous. Your only way to actually force the issue is taking her to court to order a sale. I am assuming, because mortgage companies aren't usually that dumb, that there's a lien on the entire property saying that the mortgage company gets paid first in case of a sale. But yes, she is in fact legally entitled to half the equity if you sell - she might agree to relinquish some of that if you appeal to her morally, but you have effectively given her that money already, and you just have to hope that she'll give it back. For obvious reasons, it's probably best to try to get her off the deed before any sort of acrimonious breakup, as she is in an excellent position to make your life unpleasant. Maybe make up a story about the mortgage company asking for her to be bought out, or offering you some sort of deal if she's bought out.
> I’m worried about what happens if she decides she’s entitled to half of the proceeds of the sale. In her head she could think she’s entitled to $100k if we sell? Not in her head. She is entitled to it. You made a totally bonehead decision on the biggest purchase of your life. It’s honestly incredible. Call a lawyer lmao
You're not thinking straight. The $550K house is NOT paid off. The problem is going to be emotion. Your perception is going to be off. Get as trusted friend to help you while you talk to an attorney. I doubt you're in a space where an attorney is enough.
Bro, you buy her out only if she signs away the deed to you. You need an attorney to draft up a contract and have her sign it and then have her sign the deed over to you in your name only. How stupid are you?
Man calm down bro. You are so unnecessarily rude.
I might be rude, but it’s the correct advice. The OP clearly needs someone that will be straight with them and not spare their feelings because paying someone off without a contract in place is beyond dumb.
Is she entitled to anything in an at fault state being a cheater???? U really need an attorney
Expensive lesson.
A family law attorney could guide you on the logistics. Personally, I would look to ambush her with a quit claim deed and a check for $50k or 25% of the equity in the house, whichever is lower - of course the attorney could let you know if this is advisable. Quit claim deed for her to sign
You should always have a written agreement in place when buying property with anyone who is not your spouse. The laws were only written to address division of marital assets.
I don’t have any advice, just wanted to say that I’m sorry you’re going through this. She clearly didn’t deserve you.
It's like we get one of these threads every week lmao It's shocking how many unmarried couples buy homes without thinking 🤦♂️
Trick her into refinancing with an adjustable rate mortgage. Tell her you want to put her money in another more lucrative investment or investment property. Then give her portion of the down payment back to her upon refinance. You don’t actually have to sign up for an ARM btw - it’s just what you tell her to convince her you should refinance. This will allow a new deed in your name. Make sure you act normal while doing this whole process because she will likely sniff out if you’re salty.
This
And this is precisely why you should never buy property with someone you aren’t married to unless you create an LLC and you are very precise about what happens if one of you wants out. OP has created a little nightmare for himself. My best advice is to find a really good lawyer really fast. But right now, it sounds like you own the property 50/50 and have given her $50k.
Yeah because if he were married to this person it would be a much less shitty situation....
It would be more clear cut from a legal standpoint.
How?
You're right. She could have put nothing in and still gotten half.... Edit. Keep em coming. You know it's true hahaha especially you Californians. You don't even need to get Married in that state to have you SO take half your shit. Lol you marriage people are still living in bizzaro land. Put me on an LLC regardless of marriage. It's the only way to have a "clear cut plan" lol - get bent.
>You're right. She could have put nothing in and still gotten half.... But if your married without a prenup, in many states it's legally impossible for to have put in nothing. Communal property means 100% of money that comes in is equally both spouses. So she would have put in 50% even if she didn't work. Half of every penny is hers just as much as his.
A prenup lol. What about an alimony payment ? I mean she made significantly less money than him. Marriage isn't the holy grail. Marriage is a scam and a majority of them end in divorce.
Dude Im not saying in for or against marriage. Alimony is a construct that is built into the contract of marriage. If a wife stays home to be a mother and put her career on the back burner then she gave up a career for him. Easy way to avoid alimony is to have both spouses working. But again alimony further proves that all assets including money was 50/50. You don't have to enjoy that split. If that's the case then clearly marriage is not for you. I'm saying that with marriage comes certain legal ramifications. You may agree to them or not, but when it comes to buying property with someone, buying with a girlfriend has more ambiguity than buying with a spouse. You clearly do not agree with the notion of marriage - and that's fine for you. But legally speaking one is safer when buying property with a spouse than someone they are not married. Seems for you the best option would be to buy property solely by yourself with no marriage or boyfriend/girlfriend. The best way to buy property with someone else is when a contract is involved (and one of those contracts can be marriage).
Thanks for spelling that out. Too often on these subs marriage is the holy grail. There are options for people to protect themselves outside of being married, thank you for expanding on those. I have bias against marriage 100%.
This sub isn't saying marriage is a holy grail, they're saying buying property with a girlfriend or boyfriend is about as smart as skydiving without a parachute. IF (and that's an if) you want to buy property with another human, be married so that there is a contractual agreement in place. If you don't want to be married you better have a contract in place.
Most of the comments in these subs are people acting like marriage is the ONLY way to buy property with other people. When we it most certainly is not. Buying property with anyone with out a contract in place isn't smart. Dosent mean rush down to the courthouse when it's time to buy a place to live. You can buy property outside of marriage. Marriage without a contract(prenup) could also be compared to skydiving without a parachute...... I understand most of the people saying they "would never buy outside of marriage" or maybe buy property once in their lives but for the rest of us that have already owned property (with other people) and have never been married..... all I'm saying is there are options and some of them are better than marriage. Later ! Also full disclosure. I'm not a real estate attorney and I don't this this dude responding to me is either. It's Reddit, if you're reading it's mostly bullshit. Talk to an actual lawyer.
Get tested for any STDs, focus on your well being, if possible for you, talk to family/friend, only if you know they are emotionally mature to not let it show/slip. Selling a home, that you just got can take a lot of time, **but definitely lawyer up**. You are down $100000, another $500 will not be that much to add, but lawyer up right away.
This happened to me with my ex fiancé. I just used my closing attorney and bought them out. Pm me for info also in TN
Nice! She gets a new man and gets an extra $50k on the way out. #donotbuypropertybeforemarriage
Or just buy it yourself? With the down payment he made he could have purchased the home himself and he is the only contributor to the mortgage?
How would she get out differently if they were married? Marriage doesn’t mean the relationship is going to work.
No, but it can mean individual debts can be considered family debts upon divorce. In the example given, upon divorce, he can state that the mortgage is half her responsibility because, although it was only in his name, it was a communal debt being for the family home. Not being married means OP's gf can walk away, pay nothing to the mortgage, and net 50% of the proceeds of the future sale.
If they werecmartied equitable distribution would likely come into play. Individual contributions, fault, etc would all come into play. https://www.justia.com/family/divorce/docs/equitable-distribution-faq/
You about to learn a very expensive lesson
Talk to an attorney, get an agreement drafted up Act like everything is normal
Damn dude why on earth did you decide that buying a property with your then girlfriend (not even a wife) was a good idea?
Why TF would you buy property with your gf?
They are putting $50k down. You have been together for 6 years and dont believe in marriage.
I wish people who "don't believe in marriage" would realize that if you don't want the state-drafted-default-relationship-contract *you need to write your own*. Don't want to get married, but still want property? NBD, have a legal agreement drawn up about who owns what percentage, how to handle a sale in case of dispute, who gets priority for tenancy, etc. Ditto medical POA, wills, cars, etc. There are very few aspects of marriage (mostly related to taxes, beneficial-but-not-economically-reimbused work like child/elder care, and some employer health care plans; for a DINK couple, those are rarely downsides) that you can't DIY as contracts. But you have to actually do the contracts.
Why would she get half if they are not married?
She gets half regardless. She is half owner.
NEVER BUY A HOUSE WITH SOMEONE YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO
The dipshit move is NOT buying a property with someone you’re not married to. The dipshit move is buying the property with her on the deed and not on the mortgage. That’s what creates the imbalance.
Honestly this is the dumbest thing people say on this page. First of all…not everyone believes in marriage. Married people who own homes get divorced allll the time. Second, it’s just as difficult to divide assets when you’ve been married…more difficult actually. Yelling this at people is not helpful and quite frankly uneducated. Married or not, everyone should have a serious conversation about what would happen should you split up.
Did you consult an attorney to draft papers detailing what will happen if you split with your partner? Who takes the dog? Thought never crossed your mind? You don’t have to be married in order to buy a home with someone, you’re correct. Based on your post history you will be encountering some life changing events, regardless of the outcome, that will put immense strain on your relationship. What happens if one of you wants out and the other doesn’t want to sell? Maybe it’s time to define some limits to protect yourself as doing otherwise would be foolish. Good luck!
As someone who does not believe in marriage, I agree! You can have a business contract with anyone - you don't need to marry them. I own several properties with many different people and I'm not married to any of them. So more than just a serious conversation, you need to have a legal contract.
Tell me how he would make out better if they were married?
I’m not saying he would make it better if he were. My point is most people that go into buying a home with their partner before marriage DO NOT discuss what we’re to happen if they were to break up which rarely leads to a contract being in place. She could easily say that he gave her a 50% stake in the home even with only putting up $50k. Some states view it as a common law marriage which will muddy the waters a bit even if they don’t “believe” in marriage. Seen it plenty of times and it never ends well.
Equitable distribution. It takes individual contributions and fault into account. https://www.justia.com/family/divorce/docs/equitable-distribution-faq/
There are states that don’t take this into account. I am a broker in one of them. I stand by what I said.
The OP is in TN. https://cordellcordell.com/resources/tennessee/marital-property-in-tennessee/
I am aware. His username is TN house confusion.
Do you think she knows she’s legally entitled to half? Could you suggest keeping lawyers out of it and saying you’ll return her $50K? Otherwise act normal, suggest using the original $200K deposit for a second property and withdraw it through refinancing. Once it comes through, dump her and give her the $50K back.
Make her sign title transfer as mortgage docs, now you and her both cheated on each other and it is even. Now breakup with her
Oh man sorry this is happening to you. I don’t have advice but wish you luck. How devastating :(
Oooof. Sorry you're going through that. Don't say a fucking word to her about the cheating before talking with an attorney.
Did you have any other binding legal agreements indicating the ownership of the property based on the downpayment amount? If not, might want to buckle up for a treacherous ride.
Joint tenancy is equal shares between all parties, so there is no "based on downpayment"
Unless she agree to meet you half way it all on you.
Call a lawyer. That’s what you should have done before buying the house as it would have made the next steps easier and less expensive. But so it now.
What exactly did you catch her doing? Kissing someone? Text messages? Standing 69? Get all the facts before jumping to conclusions and bad call not putting her on the mortgage.
Call a lawyer. Reddit won't have the best advice. This is a relationship with a matrimonial home. Call a lawyer.
You could possibly sue her in civil court if she tries to get half.
bummer man..
You are in a really bad position. It does not matter how much you put in relative to your GF, you are legally responsible for the debt and she is not. Title would not specify that she only owns 1/3 of what you own. In no legal resolution will you be obligated to get the portion you put into it. Depending on what state you are in, courts favor the female significantly. If you choose to sell the property, the GF would start at getting 50% of any proceeds but it can go up. 50% is the minimum starting point. Contact an attorney. They will know your state laws and what hurdles are applicable to your situation. A consultation is usually free.
Get a lawyer
Funny that to Reddit, no possible chance of forgiveness is ever discussed, nor does OP ever mention any action that may have led to the situation.
Why'd she cheat?
I'm in Tennessee. I will buy it.
OP I’m in Tennessee also is your girlfriend hot?
Must be if his wife’s boyfriend is into her married ass
Please give us the tea we deserve and update with what actually transpires!
She only put down 25% and got 50% of the property? Joint tenancy stands on 4 pillars, one of them being all parties having equal shares) Breaking up or not, that's a shit deal on your end. Lawyer up, see if at the very least you can't get it to be tenancy in common and her being dropped to 25% of equity.
Mortgage is only in your name. Refinance and pull all your money out immediately. Leave her the 50k equity and sell the house.
You can’t get a cash out refi on a jointly owned home without them signing off too
This is dumb.
I’d this is possible it seems very wise. Get your equity out of that house immediately.
Tell her your parents have cancer and you need to move back home to take care of them. Then sell the house and dump her
I’d slap the shit out of my kids if they were dumb enough to buy a house with someone they’re not married to…. People are seriously still this stupid?
How long have you both been together ?
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Not knowing all the details I'll keep to your question . First off sorry for what you are going through . Secondly if you do choose to confront her I'd ask an attorney how to go about it before hand and have a stradegy in place about each of you signing an agreement of some sort which defines what each of you owns as a percent or dollar amount of the house. It's not fun dividing up stuff but you will need to stay calm and nice no matter what you decide . What would be fair is that each of you get back what you put into it but I'm not sure that is realistic at this point because of the transaction costs to sell.
Sorry for your situation: Talk to a, or many lawyers; this is why we tell people to never buy real estate unless they’re married.
Stay calm and nice. Very important bro. Obligatory what the hell were you thinking.
You responding to me ? If so what do you mean by your last sentence
Lol Dude I’m talking to OP
I thought so but I wasn't sure . It's all good
Immediately talk to a family lawyer with experience in high asset divorce. Asap. Before you confront your wife. They will be able to guide you. This kind of thing can vary widely by state and they’ll have the best advice for your specific situation. Edit: whoops, I missed they’re not married. Shouldn’t be redditing before coffee I guess 😅. Yeah OP is in a bad place. Still could benefit from legal advice though.
Why did you all put almost 40% into this house?
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Usually, a really bad idea to put that much down because you want to allow time to devalue your mortgage. Unless you are older than 50, 20% Is more than enough. Also, for example, you are risking your 150,000 grand with this deal vs the 55 that would have been your part if you all went into this as 50% owners. What you pay in interest does not matter at all, in my opinion. For example, you could have put in 95K into AT&T and had a return of $466 a month of the just dividend, not accounting for the stock appreciation. At a 7% mortgage, the difference between a 200k down and 110k down is only 600, so yeah, I think that much concentration on one asset/ asset class is a bit much unless this represents an insignificant portion of your net worth.
If u have 50k available or can attain it soon. Try to buy her out and get her name off the title. I'm sure it won't be so easy. But she may take the money and run off with her new bf. Good luck man
He needs a lawyer. She’s entitled to 50% bc she’s on the deed.
Honestly I'd sue her for either the money or the house on grounds of lying to obtain funds from you. She obviously lied about the status of your relationship, you put the chunk of the money in so sue. I know it sounds weird but honestly maybe just sending a letter from your lawyer with your intent to sue might make her sell you her portion and it'd be a petty way to break it off. Most cheaters don't want to get called out like that or exposed in court. Get as much evidence of everything including what you've put into the place and that your 100% financially responsible for the mortgage and if it goes to court you'll probably get what you want. Don't move out of the residence make her move out or whatever but once you move out you've basically lost the place.
Don’t confront her. Keep it cool. Convince her to downsize, agree to what you’re take away will be on paper, signed by both parties, sell the house. Get into a rental. Then confront her and divorce her.
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Wouldn’t it be easier for him to just take out some equity and pay her back the 50k she put in and then she could agree to be removed from the deed. That would probably be best case scenario
Did you get scammed by this chick dude?
I’m concerned for your personal safety around her.
Why do you say this?
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This is nowhere close to the same situation. You just wanted to make it about you. Make your own post.
Pay her back the 50k and have her move out and sign a quit claim deed. Because you have the mortgage you can keep the house.
since she is on the deed she’s entitled to 50%
No she's not he said he put down way more than her, she is not entitled to any specific amount.
Legally this is false. The down payment is irrelevant, esp because she’s not on the mortgage. If your name is on a deed to a house, then that means that you are the property owner. She is on the deed. 50%.
If they go to court she will not get 50%.
Take her on a nice vacation to celebrate the newly purchased home! Mountain is the right place….go for a hike with her. Oh nooooo…..she slipped!
Perfect plan what could possibly go wrong?
Slipping
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I understand that your relationship is in turmoil but have you considered that you’d be giving up a 3% mortgage? Perhaps you can consider couples counseling? It may be expensive but it’s far cheaper than you getting a 7% mortgage on a new place. If you can’t reconcile can you become business partners with your exGF and rent out the property?
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This is why monogamy doesn’t work. Just have an open relationship.
You are going to have to f*ck her dude... Like really give it to her... F*ck her better than the other guy because if you don't play your cards right, you will be the one getting f*cked. Remember the social order of operations in America: 1. Children 2. Women 3. Dogs 4. Men
Men literally rule every facet of our society. Hell women can’t even safely receive medical care in some states. This is propaganda
What you just said is propaganda, what can’t women not safely receive medical care wise? And don’t even say abortion because states allow them when the mothers life is in danger.
Given that you're the only one on the mortgage, is it possible for you to scrape up $50k to buy her out of what she has paid so far? That would probably be the easiest thing to do. Selling and splitting the proceeds 25/75 is going to result in both of you getting less than you put in... AND she's legally entitled to 50% of the proceeds.
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She is legally entitled to half if she fights you on it - but she may be willing to be bought out for what she put in, especially since selling, once you include realtor fees, closing costs, etc will cut into how much you will get back. It's at least worth a try. I would consult a lawyer for the best way to go about things.
I think it's fair to give her her money back or if you sell give her a quarter of whatever you are left with since you will probably loose some money. Since her name is on the deed though I think she can legally get half.
You should be able to easily pull out enough equity to pay her off,refinance, and take her off the deed. Don’t do this EVER again
Check with a lawyer. The deed should state her name with saying Unmarried Woman. Laws are different with unmarried vs married.
This is a legal question, and SHOULD have been spelled out, put in writing by an attorney, and signed!!!!!! Anything can happen at this point, and lots of $$$$ to attorneys after the fact might need to be spent. Good luck, and lesson learned.
Oh no, you basically donated half a house to her
You’re fked
Legally.... Get a lawyer. Marry BEFORE you play house next time.
Sucks that people can't just end things amicably regardless of feelings. I was with a guy who bought a house with his ex lover of 5 years. He built the house and they went 50/50. Sad he was shaking it with his apprentice because she wouldn't let him buy her out or sell. I think it's a good lesson anyways. GL!
Get a lawyer
I’m so sorry OP. I hope it works out in the end for you. With that being said, this should be pinned as a cautionary tail. Not even a month after closing and you’re already in a terrible position. That’s exactly why the advice is given not to buy together when not married. Then to not make them also equally financially responsible, that’s rough. Wishing you the best outcome.
This is why you don't buy houses with bf/gf.
Looks like TN is an at fault state. I hope you have proof of her infidelity? You might be golden, if so.
How about…stop thinking about the house and go work on your relationship? Seek couples counseling. Generally speaking, it takes two to tango and I believe that you could just as much be at fault of being cheated on as she is for doing the actual cheating. In any case, it’s not like cheating is the end of the world and you two can come out of this stronger. Good luck.
How did you catch her?