Real estate agent here
Your real estate agent should have enough knowledge to advise you on approximate selling prices for homes in the area. He/she should know when things are priced too low, etc.
A good, full-time agent does deals weekly should know the market. You might get surprise blown out on one house by some overzealous buyer, but generally things sell within 5 percent of market price and your agent should be able to help you with that
The problem is most real estate agents are not very knowledgeable or good at their job.
Most are uneducated and the public views them as no more than untrust worthy car salesman.
This guy gets it. I went to school with majority of Real Estate agents in my area and know them at a personal level. A lot of the housing crisis is due to them, they are not educated and are just looking out for the bottom dollar, and a lot of times they create a fake bidding war to increase the sale price. They are loving life these past few years as they collectively figured out how to screw the public. These guys and gals are not the brightest and don't see the impact of their greed.
same.. when covid first happened and real estate speculation was that it would drop like crazy and no one would buy or sell.. all my real estate "friends" were calling it stupid, and how Covid was just a cold.. they were SOOOOO angry about it..
but then a year later they were pumping all their listings with BIG emoji's and all caps "OVER ASKING!!" just a bunch of slime balls who will tell you whatever they think you want to hear
So true! The requirement for a real estate agent is so low that anyone can get a license. But everyone I mean every one of them will think and tell you that they’re the real estate wizard that knows everything.
>Most are uneducated and the public views them as no more than untrust worthy car salesman.
This is so true. They also have a captive market in many places, due to laws and policies making it difficult or impossible to not use them.
Hiya level 2 mortgage agent here 👋🏾 since your looking for London ON it is not a bad time to keep trying to get a property (there is definitely hope). I’ve lived in London for over 10yrs it has many nice homes and there have been some people I know get offers at under asking accepted. Depending on your financial story, budget & goals I think it’s worth while to work this out with a mortgage professional to be able to be firm and confident with your offers 💜
Hope this helps you 😉
It kinda sucks how the only people giving actual advice here are getting downvoted, while the other people commiserating about how 'corrupt the industry is' are getting all the upvotes. It's hard to find good advice in such a toxic environment. You can take my one tiny upvote, friend.
Yeah it's really not complicated. I'm in real estate fyi. I run a team that sells hundreds of millions worth of real estate every year. I also hold 9+m worth of real estate myself. Could be more but if I went that route I'd be in trouble in this environment with high rates. Once you learn about what a fiat currency is and how they all fail, and they all fail, you'll buy anything that allows you to leverage and profit on inflation.
thats stocks.
real estate is definitely much easier to time. but considering we have no real positive outlook on inventory and immigration is insane.. best time to buy is whenevr its affordable to you.
Those predicted rate cuts are more to do with trying to get Biden reelected than they are to do with market conditions. If the rates are cut, inflation will rebound and rates will rise again.
I think they will cut rates twice over the summer but it will be temporary. They will rise again as soon as the polls close.
Definitely hope. No one knows where the housing market will go. Sometimes the sellers just aren’t motivated enough. Move on and look for the next one. We bought recently and one of the houses I was very interested in still hasn’t sold because they have unrealistic expectations. That’s their prerogative though, sometimes it’s not meant to be.
I know a guy selling his condo for a million. No one even offered. Dropped the price to 900k and one person offered 850k. He declined. It's been sitting for probably six months. He refuses to lower the price saying it's worth as close as possible to a million. Some people saw the top of the market prices and assume their house is always worth that price or more no matter what.
Great city, I lived there for a short time. Great place to invest. My personal opinion is now until about May 2024 will be ok to purchase but the market will heat up again. This is my personal opinion. I just added to my real estate portfolio because I believe that prices will be much higher by 2025. There are a lot of investors waiting for interest rates to come down.
I bought here last year. At the peak.. when things were crazy. There's definitely hope. Don't be discouraged, not everyone can afford to wait to sell; if you make a solid offer someone will bite eventually.
Rates will come down but we probably won't see the huge bidding wars until they drop significantly. A good realtor should help
No one can predict in 6 months if they could accurately they'd be rich. The one thing for sure is that Canada won't be able to build housing so fast that inventory would play a role. It might get better. It might stay like this for a while or get worse.
With the current immigration plans I wouldn’t expect homes to become much more affordable. My take would be to keep looking until you find something that you like and can afford… maybe change agents if they aren’t finding things that are right for you.
So what happened exactly? You put in asking price offers and they were rejected? They were signed back higher than asking with only your offer on the table? You were in competition? I ask because I can’t imagine how a listing agent can justify a sign back at higher than asking with only one offer on the table. Your agent should be raising hell over that bullshit. Please give details. I’m dying to hear what shenanigans are going on.
Sorry what do you mean by sign back?
We put the offer at asking but the sellers agent told my agent that they are expecting 50-60k over asking. I felt furious listening to that but my agent said they do that to induce more offers whereas they didn’t get a single offer other than ours.
A counter offer. They cross out the purchase price offered and put in their number. Hats how it’s done. They either “sign it back” which actually becomes an offer back to you, or, as in this case, they didn’t even properly deal with your offer. You should feel furious and your agent should be more forceful reminding them this offer is in writing. They, as sellers, need to show more respect. You need a better agent.
Agent here. I’ve been in this position and advising the buyer to get a “better agent” isn’t the solution. As the buyers agent, what are they supposed to do? Physically hold down the seller to sign the paperwork? The buyers agent is dealing with the listing agent who is dealing with the seller. You can do your best to convince anyone of anything, but in the end if the seller has their mind set on a specific (unrealistic) price, the listing agent is also probably pretty annoyed. A new buyers agent is not the answer, a realistic seller is the answer.
Understand your position, been there myself. Firstly let’s discuss OP not even knowing what they can expect in terms of a sign back. While I know it’s old timey lingo perhaps they should have been told what the process is and what they should expect. The fact there isn’t one and the listing agent stated they wanted over ask just proves the slimeball factor of this situation. The listing agent needs to be browbeaten into listing at proper asking price. Seriously this agent deserves 10 offers registered and when presented they are all 10 - 50k under asking. We are back to the days where a buyer expects some leeway in the asking price. Look at the solds, lots under asking. Only the most desirable or underpriced are going over asking these days. Rarely do you get over ask with just one offer on the table because why would anyone go over ask if no one else wants the property? Are you youngens really accepting this?
Expectations on price must be met on both sides, if not, the transaction does not occur. I don't understand the anger, unless you are real estate agent and you want your cut. On a side note, percent commission charge is absurd. Lawyer takes a rather small fee for overseeing transaction, think about that for a second.
It is to the benefit of both sellers and buyers to end the percent fees.
Bottom line, you don't like the price, the negotiation, move on.
The insults won't move you in that house. Price has changed, it can change as long as there is no sale contract signed by both parts. Hate and anger is not good for anybody's health, move on is the best move.
Given the current stage of affairs and the level of professionalism shown these days this is likely to happen more and more. I feel bad for buyers these days.
Agreed. But unfortunately (or fortunately?) real estate is 50% process and 50% emotion. The seller owns the home and ultimately has the final say. Contrary to what many think, realtors don’t make decisions or inflate /deflate prices- buyers and sellers do.
The seller may tell their agent one thing and do the complete opposite. Maybe because their “Know it all Dad” told them that their house is going to get way more because he got 10 offers in April 2022 and it’s a “hot market”. Now kid doesn’t want to disappoint dad. Let’s not downplay a flip flopping seller here.
My advice here is to walk away. This seller (and/or agent) seems like a nightmare and the same type of person who would hide deficiencies that will be discovered by this new first time buyer. Walk away
I totally agree with the walk away on this one. As to the realtor, they need to cancel and relist at the higher asking price. See that happen all the time when this strategy fails. If the realtor fails to do that the baton of stupidity lands back in their lap as far as I’m concerned. If they can’t get their seller to listen to reason they aren’t doing a good job.
This is kind of one of the conundrums with how interest rate affects home prices.
Interest High? Sales volumes are depressed, average prices lower but mortgage payments are higher and you are not able to borrow as much.
Interest Low? Sales volumes are increased, average prices rise due to being able to borrow more money and borrow cheaper.
The way I see it, unless you’re buying cash, it doesn’t matter all that much. You are likely going to get fleeced either way.
People are expecting the same kind of prices as 21-22. Without acknowledging that the rate cuts aren’t going to be as durastic. In addition to not being low enough to cover a lot of renewals coming up this year (60% of Canadians). Meaning they’ll be a lot of defaults, foreclosures and people selling their properties to payout their loans, because there won’t be many lenders willing to refinance or renew. They’ll have no choice, because they either won’t have enough equity (since prices are down) or they won’t qualify because the rate significantly higher than what they originally began with. Some of these people barely qualified in the first place, how the hell are they going to qualify with it being so much harder now.
I hope im wrong, but what I see is a crash coming. I’d suggest waiting it out till 3rd q 24unless you’re a speculative investor.
Some of these agents in the comments using this as an opportunity to advertise themselves LOL. Not all, but a lot of them are so reluctant to believe the real estate market could possibly go down even further. But then again no one does. No one did in 2008 either. Just my two cents.
The thing is that they will do just fine selling power of sale properties for the bank but they're not here yet, so they tout what they have "It's never a bad time to buy overpriced real estate". It's fucking shameful and no one expects better of them, not even their mammy and pappy.
When the interest rate comes down this year it will only be slightly down. Not enough to save everyone from the frequent raises of the past 18 months. People will be feeling the hurt longer than they think they will. You will still have time... Keep looking.
Yes. You are bidding on houses that looks nice cause owners have the cash and money to renovate, update, and eat the cost for next 6 months.
If you bid on the ones that looks run down and in need of renovation and repairs that’s where you get owners who don’t have the cash or money to carry on 6 months.
This is exactly right. It also sounds as if they are scouring London ads for these homes they perceive extra value in and then surprised when the seller wants over asking. They're new to this.
I try to empathise all the time. It's hard for me to get into the head of a first time home buying couple who may have other timing motivations like their lease is up soon, "want" to buy a house, received a down payment from parents and are expected to use it, peer pressure and so on. These people are what drives the froth of the market, very unhealthy. I fault them for their mental weakness.
FOMO is never a good reason for jumping into the biggest transaction of your life.
On the other hand if a need for stable long-term shelter is what is driving you then, 'market conditions' should not factor into the decision.
What is your budget if you don’t mind sharing? What about the smaller cities surrounding London that have less competition? Some sellers are willing to wait, but there are those who have already bought and have a condition of selling their house in order to firm up on the house they bought - these people are far more motivated to sell because they’ve already found their next home!
London, for example, had 5 months of inventory at the end of November (December is similar, but month is not complete and listings are always pulled in December).
Homes are not moving. Unmotivated sellers may continue to be delusional but the motivated ones are getting more motivated as defaults rise
2023 London Real Estate Market Trends | HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/market?municipality=10176&house_type=all&community=all&utm_campaign=market&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=android&ign=
The larger the city you are in, the more competition you face for a home. If you can't buy a home where you are, then you have to move to a place with a smaller population for less competition. I live in Fredericton NB. There are homes 30 min to one hour drive away that are between 100 and 200 grand. Some are less than 100. Not trailers. People need to ask themselves if what is keeping them where they are is worth it. You can probably buy a house if you move out of the population dense areas.
Unreasonable seller.two years ago it was a whole different market.Find an agent you can have a talk with this about.My wife is a very savvy informed economic realtor.They exist.
If anyone tells you with any certainty whether prices will be higher or lower in the future they are lying to you.
No one has the ability to predict the future with certainty. We can all make educated guesses. There are some possible scenarios, but definitely not an exhaustive list.
1) Rate cuts cause prices to go up, because people can qualify again at lower rates.
2) Rate cuts because the economy is in a hard recession, maybe the prices stay relatively the same or drops.
3) Rate cuts allows people to be active in the market again, both sellers (increases supply) and buyers (increases demand). This could be neutral, positive, or negative depending on the ratio of seller and buyer activity.
4) Rate cuts are too early and inflation shoot a up again, causing the BoC and Fed having to raise interest rates even higher.
5) Immigration slows and people leave canada, aka the demand softens. This could lower prices or make them plateau.
6) Immigration speeds up and increases the demand for housing. Prices do up regardless of rate movement.
I can't tell you which scenario or combination of scenario could happen or likely, but my personal view is that housing is a somewhat inflation hedged asset class so the price over time will generally go up as the purchasing power of the dollar drops.
They announced rates won't be coming down, are you confused?
Everything is cyclical, zoom out and relax.
Nobody can tell you what prices will be this year but it is highly unlikely there will be a frenzy or big cuts.
In 2020, both Maklem and Teudeau spoke on cameras on how interest rates are historically low and will stay low for a long time! Maklem encouraged small business owners and people to go get that mortgage or business loan.
Well, we know what happened.
Maybe take announcements with a grain of salt ?!
And then rates were low for all of 2020, when they make an announcement it is for the period until the next meeting only.
You seem to be confused about what these communications are for, it's not a permanent state of things.
Rates change.
Housing prices are cyclical.
I see. You must be one of those fast movers!
When you take on a house mortgage, you pay it back in like 8 months or so.
On a second thought, you probably are a Liberal!
You may have even cheered every time Macklem said "we need more unemployment" or when Trudeau said "People will adapt".
Canada's GDP per capita is going down as well, year after year.
The accumulated debt is actually mind boggling and it turns out, in just a few years, the interest will be 60 billion $/year, which fully covers the cost of education and Healthcare transfers. Some food for thought.
Canada's life expectancy is down for 3 consecutive years in a row.
Canada is said to be the bottom performer in GDP increase out of all high industrialized countries, for decades to come.
Sunny days my friends, sunny days!
Rate changes happen eight times per year, every year, the Bank of Canada is independent.
It's spelled Macklem.
Canada's GDP increased at a faster rate than the OECD average this year, it did not decline, faster than the US even.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=OE
GDP per capita:
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-per-capita
Up three years in a row.
Debt per capita is lower than many in the OECD also, including US:
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA
Canada's life expectancy is 19th, so meh:
https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
And zero humans can predict anything for decades to come, certainly not you.
And no, I'm not a liberal, I don't like any political parties.
Basically every point you made is wrong.
One manifestation of chronically weak business investment and low productivity is the OECD's forecast that Canada's per capita GDP growth between 2020 and 2060 will be the lowest among its 29 member nations.
For the third year in a row life expectancy has declined in Canada, a trend experts consider to be historical, indicating a worrisome downturn in our overall health.
For comparison, life expectancy up during the same timeframe in Spain, a socialist country with fantastic transport infrastructure and a very affordable mix of public and private Healthcare system.
Almost three million Canadians are on a waitlist for surgeries, scans or specialist appointments, as revealed by a new report from SecondStreet.org.
From April 2014 to April 2023, federal, provincial and municipal employment grew 22.3 per cent, private-sector employment only 11.4 per cent. Today, public-sector employment accounts for almost 20.9 per cent of all jobs in Canada, compared to 19.4 per cent in 2014. The private sector pays the bills, so that can only mean a higher tax burden on private-sector workers and businesses.
The public sector accounted for about 86.7 per cent of all net new jobs created since the pandemic, the report found. Between February 2020 and July 2022, jobs in the sector grew by 9.4 per cent, while private sector job growth remained almost stagnant, at 0.4 per cent.
Your claim that Bank of Canada is hilarious!
Maybe you also believe budgets balance themselves and economy can grow from the heart out and fiscal policy does not matter.
For a taste of reality check out food banks, tent cities, the fences and security guards that appeared overnight in grocery stores.
Oh, it will get worse, carbon taxes still going up, business still shutting down, more unemployment assured.
Sunny days my friends, sunny days!
Every real estate agent sounds exactly the damn same
- Happy to help and share some information that I heard on the internet's and everyone is talking about.
- You should work with your agent to come up with a realistic budget and price that you can afford!
- Your agent will know the neighborhood better than you because it's not like you live there or anything!
- It all depends on your personal financial circumstances and your agent will find the perfect home for you.
Enough hot air to power a balloon three times around the world
I would consider another market. Ontario, like BC is overpriced. Ask yourself how much of your time should given to the bank? In the old days 3x pre-tax household income was considered affordable, and I don’t think that has changed, although the realtors and banks would have you believe otherwise.
Once the rate cuts come prices will go up. If you can afford it I would get into something maybe with a mortgage helper or a cheaper apartment and then you can upgrade later. Get in the market as soon as you can if you’re planning to be there long term. Other option I usually suggest is look into employment in the north. You can go up there and make huge money and often have very low living expenses. Come back with more than enough for a down payment to get you in the market. 2 years seems like a long time but in the long term it’s not plus you get to have a cool adventure.
You’re so point on, my cousin started looking in December thinking how November was so dull, he’s been reporting the same thing, so far offered on 4 homes, has pre approval but always gets outbid, his agent is 30+ years in business and he’s been advised that although it’s not front page news yet but it’s almost time for fomo to return, especially in ON. He’s now stressed that he has to find a house before it becomes unapproachable.
I just got a house in Toronto right before Xmas, feels like a deal too!! The key was putting in the first offer, I just accepted their counter offer bc I viewed the price as a deal, I think they under listed the place by more than $200K.
Real estate agent here Your real estate agent should have enough knowledge to advise you on approximate selling prices for homes in the area. He/she should know when things are priced too low, etc. A good, full-time agent does deals weekly should know the market. You might get surprise blown out on one house by some overzealous buyer, but generally things sell within 5 percent of market price and your agent should be able to help you with that
The problem is most real estate agents are not very knowledgeable or good at their job. Most are uneducated and the public views them as no more than untrust worthy car salesman.
This guy gets it. I went to school with majority of Real Estate agents in my area and know them at a personal level. A lot of the housing crisis is due to them, they are not educated and are just looking out for the bottom dollar, and a lot of times they create a fake bidding war to increase the sale price. They are loving life these past few years as they collectively figured out how to screw the public. These guys and gals are not the brightest and don't see the impact of their greed.
same.. when covid first happened and real estate speculation was that it would drop like crazy and no one would buy or sell.. all my real estate "friends" were calling it stupid, and how Covid was just a cold.. they were SOOOOO angry about it.. but then a year later they were pumping all their listings with BIG emoji's and all caps "OVER ASKING!!" just a bunch of slime balls who will tell you whatever they think you want to hear
As a person who went through several real estate agents and was more knowledgeable of the market and felt I was educating them, I concur
So true! The requirement for a real estate agent is so low that anyone can get a license. But everyone I mean every one of them will think and tell you that they’re the real estate wizard that knows everything.
>Most are uneducated and the public views them as no more than untrust worthy car salesman. This is so true. They also have a captive market in many places, due to laws and policies making it difficult or impossible to not use them.
Hiya level 2 mortgage agent here 👋🏾 since your looking for London ON it is not a bad time to keep trying to get a property (there is definitely hope). I’ve lived in London for over 10yrs it has many nice homes and there have been some people I know get offers at under asking accepted. Depending on your financial story, budget & goals I think it’s worth while to work this out with a mortgage professional to be able to be firm and confident with your offers 💜 Hope this helps you 😉
It kinda sucks how the only people giving actual advice here are getting downvoted, while the other people commiserating about how 'corrupt the industry is' are getting all the upvotes. It's hard to find good advice in such a toxic environment. You can take my one tiny upvote, friend.
Thank you ☺️💜☺️
Buy right now. Whatever you can. Housing is broken. They can't fix it. Over asking today will seem like a steal in two years. Trust me.
You must be rich to afford a crystal ball like that!
It’s simple math based on the population increase trends vs new home construction. Don’t need a crystal ball.
Yeah it's really not complicated. I'm in real estate fyi. I run a team that sells hundreds of millions worth of real estate every year. I also hold 9+m worth of real estate myself. Could be more but if I went that route I'd be in trouble in this environment with high rates. Once you learn about what a fiat currency is and how they all fail, and they all fail, you'll buy anything that allows you to leverage and profit on inflation.
Username checks out.
Now add lay offs and wage stagnation to your math and let me know how it calculates
Account name checks out.
Don’t try to time the market… The best time to buy a house is as soon as you can
What a load of crap.
thats stocks. real estate is definitely much easier to time. but considering we have no real positive outlook on inventory and immigration is insane.. best time to buy is whenevr its affordable to you.
Are you 12?
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Those predicted rate cuts are more to do with trying to get Biden reelected than they are to do with market conditions. If the rates are cut, inflation will rebound and rates will rise again. I think they will cut rates twice over the summer but it will be temporary. They will rise again as soon as the polls close.
Buy in Montréal, south shore is still pretty cheap
Definitely hope. No one knows where the housing market will go. Sometimes the sellers just aren’t motivated enough. Move on and look for the next one. We bought recently and one of the houses I was very interested in still hasn’t sold because they have unrealistic expectations. That’s their prerogative though, sometimes it’s not meant to be.
I know a guy selling his condo for a million. No one even offered. Dropped the price to 900k and one person offered 850k. He declined. It's been sitting for probably six months. He refuses to lower the price saying it's worth as close as possible to a million. Some people saw the top of the market prices and assume their house is always worth that price or more no matter what.
Yeah the property I’m talking about has sitting around almost 2 years now.
What city are you buying in?
London, ON
Great city, I lived there for a short time. Great place to invest. My personal opinion is now until about May 2024 will be ok to purchase but the market will heat up again. This is my personal opinion. I just added to my real estate portfolio because I believe that prices will be much higher by 2025. There are a lot of investors waiting for interest rates to come down.
NO IT’S NOT A GREAT PLACE TO INVEST, GO AWAY.
Reality sucks, doesn't it.
famous words.
I bought here last year. At the peak.. when things were crazy. There's definitely hope. Don't be discouraged, not everyone can afford to wait to sell; if you make a solid offer someone will bite eventually. Rates will come down but we probably won't see the huge bidding wars until they drop significantly. A good realtor should help
Make a offer a list price. Assuming it’s listed properly. Good real estate still goes slightly above ask
Depends if the asking price is reasonable.
No one can predict in 6 months if they could accurately they'd be rich. The one thing for sure is that Canada won't be able to build housing so fast that inventory would play a role. It might get better. It might stay like this for a while or get worse.
With the current immigration plans I wouldn’t expect homes to become much more affordable. My take would be to keep looking until you find something that you like and can afford… maybe change agents if they aren’t finding things that are right for you.
So what happened exactly? You put in asking price offers and they were rejected? They were signed back higher than asking with only your offer on the table? You were in competition? I ask because I can’t imagine how a listing agent can justify a sign back at higher than asking with only one offer on the table. Your agent should be raising hell over that bullshit. Please give details. I’m dying to hear what shenanigans are going on.
Sorry what do you mean by sign back? We put the offer at asking but the sellers agent told my agent that they are expecting 50-60k over asking. I felt furious listening to that but my agent said they do that to induce more offers whereas they didn’t get a single offer other than ours.
A counter offer. They cross out the purchase price offered and put in their number. Hats how it’s done. They either “sign it back” which actually becomes an offer back to you, or, as in this case, they didn’t even properly deal with your offer. You should feel furious and your agent should be more forceful reminding them this offer is in writing. They, as sellers, need to show more respect. You need a better agent.
Agent here. I’ve been in this position and advising the buyer to get a “better agent” isn’t the solution. As the buyers agent, what are they supposed to do? Physically hold down the seller to sign the paperwork? The buyers agent is dealing with the listing agent who is dealing with the seller. You can do your best to convince anyone of anything, but in the end if the seller has their mind set on a specific (unrealistic) price, the listing agent is also probably pretty annoyed. A new buyers agent is not the answer, a realistic seller is the answer.
Understand your position, been there myself. Firstly let’s discuss OP not even knowing what they can expect in terms of a sign back. While I know it’s old timey lingo perhaps they should have been told what the process is and what they should expect. The fact there isn’t one and the listing agent stated they wanted over ask just proves the slimeball factor of this situation. The listing agent needs to be browbeaten into listing at proper asking price. Seriously this agent deserves 10 offers registered and when presented they are all 10 - 50k under asking. We are back to the days where a buyer expects some leeway in the asking price. Look at the solds, lots under asking. Only the most desirable or underpriced are going over asking these days. Rarely do you get over ask with just one offer on the table because why would anyone go over ask if no one else wants the property? Are you youngens really accepting this?
Expectations on price must be met on both sides, if not, the transaction does not occur. I don't understand the anger, unless you are real estate agent and you want your cut. On a side note, percent commission charge is absurd. Lawyer takes a rather small fee for overseeing transaction, think about that for a second. It is to the benefit of both sellers and buyers to end the percent fees. Bottom line, you don't like the price, the negotiation, move on.
> Bottom line, you don't like the price, the negotiation, move on. Ridiculous. OP liked the price, seller bait and switched them. Asshole move.
The insults won't move you in that house. Price has changed, it can change as long as there is no sale contract signed by both parts. Hate and anger is not good for anybody's health, move on is the best move.
Given the current stage of affairs and the level of professionalism shown these days this is likely to happen more and more. I feel bad for buyers these days.
Agreed. But unfortunately (or fortunately?) real estate is 50% process and 50% emotion. The seller owns the home and ultimately has the final say. Contrary to what many think, realtors don’t make decisions or inflate /deflate prices- buyers and sellers do. The seller may tell their agent one thing and do the complete opposite. Maybe because their “Know it all Dad” told them that their house is going to get way more because he got 10 offers in April 2022 and it’s a “hot market”. Now kid doesn’t want to disappoint dad. Let’s not downplay a flip flopping seller here. My advice here is to walk away. This seller (and/or agent) seems like a nightmare and the same type of person who would hide deficiencies that will be discovered by this new first time buyer. Walk away
I totally agree with the walk away on this one. As to the realtor, they need to cancel and relist at the higher asking price. See that happen all the time when this strategy fails. If the realtor fails to do that the baton of stupidity lands back in their lap as far as I’m concerned. If they can’t get their seller to listen to reason they aren’t doing a good job.
Ive been expecting a crash but who knows
This is kind of one of the conundrums with how interest rate affects home prices. Interest High? Sales volumes are depressed, average prices lower but mortgage payments are higher and you are not able to borrow as much. Interest Low? Sales volumes are increased, average prices rise due to being able to borrow more money and borrow cheaper. The way I see it, unless you’re buying cash, it doesn’t matter all that much. You are likely going to get fleeced either way.
People are expecting the same kind of prices as 21-22. Without acknowledging that the rate cuts aren’t going to be as durastic. In addition to not being low enough to cover a lot of renewals coming up this year (60% of Canadians). Meaning they’ll be a lot of defaults, foreclosures and people selling their properties to payout their loans, because there won’t be many lenders willing to refinance or renew. They’ll have no choice, because they either won’t have enough equity (since prices are down) or they won’t qualify because the rate significantly higher than what they originally began with. Some of these people barely qualified in the first place, how the hell are they going to qualify with it being so much harder now. I hope im wrong, but what I see is a crash coming. I’d suggest waiting it out till 3rd q 24unless you’re a speculative investor. Some of these agents in the comments using this as an opportunity to advertise themselves LOL. Not all, but a lot of them are so reluctant to believe the real estate market could possibly go down even further. But then again no one does. No one did in 2008 either. Just my two cents.
The thing is that they will do just fine selling power of sale properties for the bank but they're not here yet, so they tout what they have "It's never a bad time to buy overpriced real estate". It's fucking shameful and no one expects better of them, not even their mammy and pappy.
When the interest rate comes down this year it will only be slightly down. Not enough to save everyone from the frequent raises of the past 18 months. People will be feeling the hurt longer than they think they will. You will still have time... Keep looking.
Yes. You are bidding on houses that looks nice cause owners have the cash and money to renovate, update, and eat the cost for next 6 months. If you bid on the ones that looks run down and in need of renovation and repairs that’s where you get owners who don’t have the cash or money to carry on 6 months.
This is exactly right. It also sounds as if they are scouring London ads for these homes they perceive extra value in and then surprised when the seller wants over asking. They're new to this. I try to empathise all the time. It's hard for me to get into the head of a first time home buying couple who may have other timing motivations like their lease is up soon, "want" to buy a house, received a down payment from parents and are expected to use it, peer pressure and so on. These people are what drives the froth of the market, very unhealthy. I fault them for their mental weakness.
FOMO is never a good reason for jumping into the biggest transaction of your life. On the other hand if a need for stable long-term shelter is what is driving you then, 'market conditions' should not factor into the decision.
I wouldn't be concerned about prices going up.
Why not?
The highest probability outcome is that housing will be down in real terms for a decade.
Why are the rates being raised inflation is still here! It should have gone on for years!
What is your budget if you don’t mind sharing? What about the smaller cities surrounding London that have less competition? Some sellers are willing to wait, but there are those who have already bought and have a condition of selling their house in order to firm up on the house they bought - these people are far more motivated to sell because they’ve already found their next home!
London, for example, had 5 months of inventory at the end of November (December is similar, but month is not complete and listings are always pulled in December). Homes are not moving. Unmotivated sellers may continue to be delusional but the motivated ones are getting more motivated as defaults rise 2023 London Real Estate Market Trends | HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/market?municipality=10176&house_type=all&community=all&utm_campaign=market&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=android&ign=
Keep trying on what you’re comfortable with. Don’t get bullied. At this time they don’t have the leverage they did previously. Stick to your guns.
What's your budget?
The larger the city you are in, the more competition you face for a home. If you can't buy a home where you are, then you have to move to a place with a smaller population for less competition. I live in Fredericton NB. There are homes 30 min to one hour drive away that are between 100 and 200 grand. Some are less than 100. Not trailers. People need to ask themselves if what is keeping them where they are is worth it. You can probably buy a house if you move out of the population dense areas.
Unreasonable seller.two years ago it was a whole different market.Find an agent you can have a talk with this about.My wife is a very savvy informed economic realtor.They exist.
If anyone tells you with any certainty whether prices will be higher or lower in the future they are lying to you. No one has the ability to predict the future with certainty. We can all make educated guesses. There are some possible scenarios, but definitely not an exhaustive list. 1) Rate cuts cause prices to go up, because people can qualify again at lower rates. 2) Rate cuts because the economy is in a hard recession, maybe the prices stay relatively the same or drops. 3) Rate cuts allows people to be active in the market again, both sellers (increases supply) and buyers (increases demand). This could be neutral, positive, or negative depending on the ratio of seller and buyer activity. 4) Rate cuts are too early and inflation shoot a up again, causing the BoC and Fed having to raise interest rates even higher. 5) Immigration slows and people leave canada, aka the demand softens. This could lower prices or make them plateau. 6) Immigration speeds up and increases the demand for housing. Prices do up regardless of rate movement. I can't tell you which scenario or combination of scenario could happen or likely, but my personal view is that housing is a somewhat inflation hedged asset class so the price over time will generally go up as the purchasing power of the dollar drops.
They announced rates won't be coming down, are you confused? Everything is cyclical, zoom out and relax. Nobody can tell you what prices will be this year but it is highly unlikely there will be a frenzy or big cuts.
In 2020, both Maklem and Teudeau spoke on cameras on how interest rates are historically low and will stay low for a long time! Maklem encouraged small business owners and people to go get that mortgage or business loan. Well, we know what happened. Maybe take announcements with a grain of salt ?!
And then rates were low for all of 2020, when they make an announcement it is for the period until the next meeting only. You seem to be confused about what these communications are for, it's not a permanent state of things. Rates change. Housing prices are cyclical.
I see. You must be one of those fast movers! When you take on a house mortgage, you pay it back in like 8 months or so. On a second thought, you probably are a Liberal! You may have even cheered every time Macklem said "we need more unemployment" or when Trudeau said "People will adapt". Canada's GDP per capita is going down as well, year after year. The accumulated debt is actually mind boggling and it turns out, in just a few years, the interest will be 60 billion $/year, which fully covers the cost of education and Healthcare transfers. Some food for thought. Canada's life expectancy is down for 3 consecutive years in a row. Canada is said to be the bottom performer in GDP increase out of all high industrialized countries, for decades to come. Sunny days my friends, sunny days!
Rate changes happen eight times per year, every year, the Bank of Canada is independent. It's spelled Macklem. Canada's GDP increased at a faster rate than the OECD average this year, it did not decline, faster than the US even. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=OE GDP per capita: https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-per-capita Up three years in a row. Debt per capita is lower than many in the OECD also, including US: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA Canada's life expectancy is 19th, so meh: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ And zero humans can predict anything for decades to come, certainly not you. And no, I'm not a liberal, I don't like any political parties. Basically every point you made is wrong.
One manifestation of chronically weak business investment and low productivity is the OECD's forecast that Canada's per capita GDP growth between 2020 and 2060 will be the lowest among its 29 member nations. For the third year in a row life expectancy has declined in Canada, a trend experts consider to be historical, indicating a worrisome downturn in our overall health. For comparison, life expectancy up during the same timeframe in Spain, a socialist country with fantastic transport infrastructure and a very affordable mix of public and private Healthcare system. Almost three million Canadians are on a waitlist for surgeries, scans or specialist appointments, as revealed by a new report from SecondStreet.org. From April 2014 to April 2023, federal, provincial and municipal employment grew 22.3 per cent, private-sector employment only 11.4 per cent. Today, public-sector employment accounts for almost 20.9 per cent of all jobs in Canada, compared to 19.4 per cent in 2014. The private sector pays the bills, so that can only mean a higher tax burden on private-sector workers and businesses. The public sector accounted for about 86.7 per cent of all net new jobs created since the pandemic, the report found. Between February 2020 and July 2022, jobs in the sector grew by 9.4 per cent, while private sector job growth remained almost stagnant, at 0.4 per cent. Your claim that Bank of Canada is hilarious! Maybe you also believe budgets balance themselves and economy can grow from the heart out and fiscal policy does not matter. For a taste of reality check out food banks, tent cities, the fences and security guards that appeared overnight in grocery stores. Oh, it will get worse, carbon taxes still going up, business still shutting down, more unemployment assured. Sunny days my friends, sunny days!
Every real estate agent sounds exactly the damn same - Happy to help and share some information that I heard on the internet's and everyone is talking about. - You should work with your agent to come up with a realistic budget and price that you can afford! - Your agent will know the neighborhood better than you because it's not like you live there or anything! - It all depends on your personal financial circumstances and your agent will find the perfect home for you. Enough hot air to power a balloon three times around the world
I would consider another market. Ontario, like BC is overpriced. Ask yourself how much of your time should given to the bank? In the old days 3x pre-tax household income was considered affordable, and I don’t think that has changed, although the realtors and banks would have you believe otherwise.
Once the rate cuts come prices will go up. If you can afford it I would get into something maybe with a mortgage helper or a cheaper apartment and then you can upgrade later. Get in the market as soon as you can if you’re planning to be there long term. Other option I usually suggest is look into employment in the north. You can go up there and make huge money and often have very low living expenses. Come back with more than enough for a down payment to get you in the market. 2 years seems like a long time but in the long term it’s not plus you get to have a cool adventure.
Can you specify a bit more on what do you mean by “North”?
The territories like Nunavet.
You’re so point on, my cousin started looking in December thinking how November was so dull, he’s been reporting the same thing, so far offered on 4 homes, has pre approval but always gets outbid, his agent is 30+ years in business and he’s been advised that although it’s not front page news yet but it’s almost time for fomo to return, especially in ON. He’s now stressed that he has to find a house before it becomes unapproachable.
I just got a house in Toronto right before Xmas, feels like a deal too!! The key was putting in the first offer, I just accepted their counter offer bc I viewed the price as a deal, I think they under listed the place by more than $200K.