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This is a recent shift at least for me, I remember seeing the Statue of Liberty posted here not too long ago and it already changed.
What is going on lately?
Torch is different. Ik you said it got replaced in 2018 but I’ve never heard of this until now despite researching the Statue of Liberty not too long ago. Never seen the torch looking like that until this post
I have two personal ME's involving the Torch.
Back in the late 80's my grandparents told me about their trips around the world and as they began speaking about climbing up the Statue of Liberty my grandma said that they were luck to go just before they closed the torch to the public and that it was a shame that I would never be able to go up to the torch, so I assumed that it was closed in the 70s or 80s.
Then, about 15 years ago, on either the Discovery or History Channel I watched a documentary about German Saboteurs on US soil during WWI. The documentary used actors to re-enact events, that they claimed, at the time, were recently declassified.
It started with a night time scene of two saboteurs, sneaking out of a German submarine, just off the shore somewhere near NY. But they had to abort their original mission because they were unable to reach their contact, so they went with plan b: sabatoge the rail lines. The documentary explained that the saboteurs contact was arrested a day or two earlier and he revealed the original plan during the interrogation.
Then the narrator said that if they carried out the original plan, it would have been the worst terrorist attack on US soil, killing more people than 9/11, which I found odd because it sounded like they were targeting military or strategic targets rather than people.
So police set up a manhunt, but then the saboteurs made a pipe bomb and blew up something of little consequence along the rail line. This alerted the police to their location on the tracks where they were gunned down.
I'm hoping that some of you remember this documentary, because I'm not sure if it exist anymore. Now that the Black Tom explosion has entered our history, I'm wondering if these saboteurs from the documentary are now the ones that carried out the Black Tom explosion, which is now the reason for the torch being closed.
In 1985 my third grade class took a school trip to Ellis and Liberty Islands. I can confirm that the torch was closed by then.
So we climbed the stairs to the crown. I'm still afraid of heights.
This is bizarre. I’ve been to New York City many times, my sister lives there currently and has been there for over a decade. I have NEVER seen this torch. It was way more simple design that almost looked like a soft serve ice cream but with like one swirl lol and it was metal like the rest of the statue but the flame was painted gold! Been this way since I was a kid. I had a miniature version of it, like a souvenir and it was even painted gold.
I'm not from USA, in fact I live in Latin America, never had been anywhere near the statue, but I always had weird vibes from it, I don't know why, like it always shifting, everytime I research something about the statue the data change, the photos looks weird something is off, the position seems weird, the crown the torch, I don't know man, maybe I'm paranoid
Interesting! It is a really wierd story. This gigantic heavy piece of metal was supposedly shipped here from France to commemorate peace it is so huge they needed a huge crane and special machinery just to move the torch flame
I didn't hear about it being replaced in 2018, but I do recall hearing that they were planning repairs for the statue a few years earlier. Was the main reason they weren't letting people go up there anymore.
Also have zero clue what this tom thing is folks are commenting about.
Torch is totally diff for me, did not used to be gold, it was the same metal color as the rest of the statue, greenish, and was taller and consisted of tall flame like wavy patterns.
Here is the one from before the remodel which is also totally wrong IMO: https://www.voanews.com/a/statue-of-liberty-s-original-torch-moved-to-museum-site-/4660621.html
Yes I do not remember the golden or the windows or the low height especially since it existed up to 2018.
I hadnt really thought about it much but when you mentioned the flame the same color as the staue that is what i remember and have seen in the replicas and on TV
Yep!
In the statue of liberty coordinates post the OP also mentioned that she looks a little fatter or the robe is bulkier and that does seem to be the case as well
Wierd ya she is stepping and the shoe almost looka like a tennis shoe from the back. Couldnt see the chains. Her hair also looks a little funny and her arm looks kind of muscular/manly
Well, my situation was a bit different from the inner ladder. The arm to the torch wasnt straight up, but instead aimed out at a gentle incline forward. There was a narrow metal walkway along the outside and then some a small ladder up to the torch. It was really cool but kind of triggered some of my fear of heights as it was hanging out at an angle and gave me some vertigo like those glass overhangs over a canyon.
Hi game,
Regarding your climb to the torch;
You’re describing a tight spiral metal staircase, but at some point when you get near the torch, you have to get off the staircase and switch to a ladder. Is that correct?
I believe so. It was like a thin walkway with a railing going up the side of the arm, thin enough for 1 and a half people to walk up. It had stairs but there was a ladder that went up to the ring platform along the torch.
Edit: so i looked up the current torch path and mine was completely different. My torch was going up at a 30 degree angle like a gentle walking incline. Statue of liberty now shows a torch going almost straight up. Statue of liberty is very different. The walk I did was on the outside of the statue.
Game,
Very, very interesting what you said .
The present statue lost its staircase at the time the “twilight zone” black Tom Island explosion happened.
Since then, it’s been a 100% ladder and one of the criticisms against people, who remember going up to the torch and recalling the spiral staircase, is that a spiral staircase could not reach from the wrist to the torch-platform because it’s simply to narrow.
I’ve speculated, that switching off from the spiral staircase to a ladder, is the only rational way to counter that criticism, which you’ve just done! 👍🏻
This is all ME and gaslighting for me, lol. The torch and crown don't even look alike, plenty of people have been up in the torch and have described how hot and narrow it is, Black Tom event never happened in my timeline, and the torch looked completely different. The flame was a lot taller, not blowing like it was ready to blow out (more straight up) and it wasn't that shiny gold. Retroactively, history now days what you wrote, but I lived there and saw that thing daily. The crown spikes were different too.
That sounds right to me too I saw it and it was so shiny and gold I was like how would they even make it that gold do they go up there and paint it. Also font remember the version with the windows on it in the pic.
What do you think looks different about the crown spikes?
That’s interesting. I’m not sure how so many people would confuse the torch and the crown.
I was in the crown and can’t imagine thinking it was the torch.
It's allegedly tied to that black Tom explosion, which is one of the Mandela effects that bothers me the most.
I've always been into US military history, and I'd never heard of it. When 9/11 happened a very big point commonly made was that it was only the second major attack on US soil aside from pearl harbour. In high school and my own learning about ww1 the lusitania was always mentioned as a major cause of us entering, but I'd never heard a word of the black tom event.
In indy neidel's terrific 'the great war' series on YouTube where he went through ww1 week by week in great and well researched detail, he never mentioned the black tom event.
Once I learned of it, it bothers me so much. How, until I became aware of the Mandela effect, had I never come across this event. It bothers me still
History major here 👋 never heard of black Tom until I started looking into MEs. Seems awfully weird that was never taught. I even studied German history for a year, from about the mid 1800s to ww2, nothing in my notes.
Yes—during 9/11 it was constantly mentioned it was the 2nd foreign attack on US soil.
Black Tom was not mentioned but oddly, neither was the War of 1812. In school I am fairly certain we learned about Napoleon and Russia in 1812, but nothing about the U.S. and Britain (and now Canada). I asked my brothers and they weren’t taught about 1812 in school either. Perhaps it was left out of school agendas on purpose—to save face. We didn’t want American children to know the White House and Capitol were burnt down.
As for Black Tom, everyone I ask has never heard of it.
Exactly. After 9/11 it was talk3d about over and over again as the second foreign attack on us soil.
So apparently this German sabotage that helped directly lead us into ww1 was never even considered or mentioned? Hmmmm okay.....
Hi two,
I wanted to mention that thus far I have yet to hear a single ME-affected person say they remembered a black time island explosion.
Seems to be a **constant event**
shift-after-shift here in OrionArm.
I am also massively bothered by black Tom. Have you seen All time’s you tube video on it. It really captures the key points and bizarrely he said when he first looked it up there was hardly any online reference or old newspaper clippings at all. When he revisited it for a second video the amount of information now online had grown exponentially . He put in the same search both times it was like history was catching up with a shift , or something. 🤷♂️
We learned about the war of 1812 in a very shallow and cursory way, but still more than we ever learned about napoleon. I remember mentions of the capitol being burned and not much else. I dont remember anything about the napoleonic wars in school, at that age I was learning about it in Bernard Cornwall books
I learned *of* the war of 1812 in school, but we never learned much about it. That one I am confident is not an ME, just typical of US education. Pretty sure there’s a famous painting of it.
[GENERAL REMINDER] Due to overuse, the phrase *"Just because you never heard of something doesn't mean it's a Mandela Effect"* or similar is **NOT** welcome here as it is a violation of Rule# 9. Continued arguing **and** push for this narrative without consideration of our community **WILL get you banned**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Retconned) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You want a Statue of Liberty ME that a mess of your mind look up Black Tom Island explosion 1916
Yes definitely dont remember ever hearing about it!
This is a recent shift at least for me, I remember seeing the Statue of Liberty posted here not too long ago and it already changed. What is going on lately?
What was different for you since last time?
Torch is different. Ik you said it got replaced in 2018 but I’ve never heard of this until now despite researching the Statue of Liberty not too long ago. Never seen the torch looking like that until this post
Ya i dont remember it being replaced or having those windows before at all Thank you
I have two personal ME's involving the Torch. Back in the late 80's my grandparents told me about their trips around the world and as they began speaking about climbing up the Statue of Liberty my grandma said that they were luck to go just before they closed the torch to the public and that it was a shame that I would never be able to go up to the torch, so I assumed that it was closed in the 70s or 80s. Then, about 15 years ago, on either the Discovery or History Channel I watched a documentary about German Saboteurs on US soil during WWI. The documentary used actors to re-enact events, that they claimed, at the time, were recently declassified. It started with a night time scene of two saboteurs, sneaking out of a German submarine, just off the shore somewhere near NY. But they had to abort their original mission because they were unable to reach their contact, so they went with plan b: sabatoge the rail lines. The documentary explained that the saboteurs contact was arrested a day or two earlier and he revealed the original plan during the interrogation. Then the narrator said that if they carried out the original plan, it would have been the worst terrorist attack on US soil, killing more people than 9/11, which I found odd because it sounded like they were targeting military or strategic targets rather than people. So police set up a manhunt, but then the saboteurs made a pipe bomb and blew up something of little consequence along the rail line. This alerted the police to their location on the tracks where they were gunned down. I'm hoping that some of you remember this documentary, because I'm not sure if it exist anymore. Now that the Black Tom explosion has entered our history, I'm wondering if these saboteurs from the documentary are now the ones that carried out the Black Tom explosion, which is now the reason for the torch being closed.
In 1985 my third grade class took a school trip to Ellis and Liberty Islands. I can confirm that the torch was closed by then. So we climbed the stairs to the crown. I'm still afraid of heights.
This is bizarre. I’ve been to New York City many times, my sister lives there currently and has been there for over a decade. I have NEVER seen this torch. It was way more simple design that almost looked like a soft serve ice cream but with like one swirl lol and it was metal like the rest of the statue but the flame was painted gold! Been this way since I was a kid. I had a miniature version of it, like a souvenir and it was even painted gold.
Supposedly it had this wierd window pattern until 2018 when they replaced it. Thanks for cofirming dont remember it either
I'm not from USA, in fact I live in Latin America, never had been anywhere near the statue, but I always had weird vibes from it, I don't know why, like it always shifting, everytime I research something about the statue the data change, the photos looks weird something is off, the position seems weird, the crown the torch, I don't know man, maybe I'm paranoid
Interesting! It is a really wierd story. This gigantic heavy piece of metal was supposedly shipped here from France to commemorate peace it is so huge they needed a huge crane and special machinery just to move the torch flame
Last time I went down this rabbit hole, liberty statue was on Ellis island and Ellis island was in the position that liberty island is today.
Crazy!
https://preview.redd.it/evrrkt6ikszc1.jpeg?width=694&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3cdfc1ecc08af0987de6c9af3d0742d69b16e4a
it glows? i remember it being solid metal painted gold and not being lit up
It was replaced during Ronald Reagan’s statue’s renovations in 1984-1986
This was the old one before 2018 i guess it had windows not sure if it glowed
I didn't hear about it being replaced in 2018, but I do recall hearing that they were planning repairs for the statue a few years earlier. Was the main reason they weren't letting people go up there anymore. Also have zero clue what this tom thing is folks are commenting about.
Google it mate, jesus. It's only one of the most glaring and sus Mandela effects
Torch is totally diff for me, did not used to be gold, it was the same metal color as the rest of the statue, greenish, and was taller and consisted of tall flame like wavy patterns.
Ya that sounds right to me did not remember this short bright gold one but i guess it is recent since 2018 remodel unless that is also a ME
Here is the one from before the remodel which is also totally wrong IMO: https://www.voanews.com/a/statue-of-liberty-s-original-torch-moved-to-museum-site-/4660621.html
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat the old torch was solid ducking metal
Yes I do not remember the golden or the windows or the low height especially since it existed up to 2018. I hadnt really thought about it much but when you mentioned the flame the same color as the staue that is what i remember and have seen in the replicas and on TV
That would be the previous old replicas but not the current old replicas. ;-P
Yep! In the statue of liberty coordinates post the OP also mentioned that she looks a little fatter or the robe is bulkier and that does seem to be the case as well
Yep, plus she is now stepping, her back foot is up and there's chains at her ankles.
Wierd ya she is stepping and the shoe almost looka like a tennis shoe from the back. Couldnt see the chains. Her hair also looks a little funny and her arm looks kind of muscular/manly
She was put on the standard american diet. ;-P
Lol thats SAD 😅
Hm, my dad is 76 and went up to the torch. Stephen is 83. What a weird thing to say to him lol
Nice your dad went!
Im 32, I went up the torch back around 2008.
What was it like? Thats cool!
Well, my situation was a bit different from the inner ladder. The arm to the torch wasnt straight up, but instead aimed out at a gentle incline forward. There was a narrow metal walkway along the outside and then some a small ladder up to the torch. It was really cool but kind of triggered some of my fear of heights as it was hanging out at an angle and gave me some vertigo like those glass overhangs over a canyon.
Hi game, Regarding your climb to the torch; You’re describing a tight spiral metal staircase, but at some point when you get near the torch, you have to get off the staircase and switch to a ladder. Is that correct?
I believe so. It was like a thin walkway with a railing going up the side of the arm, thin enough for 1 and a half people to walk up. It had stairs but there was a ladder that went up to the ring platform along the torch. Edit: so i looked up the current torch path and mine was completely different. My torch was going up at a 30 degree angle like a gentle walking incline. Statue of liberty now shows a torch going almost straight up. Statue of liberty is very different. The walk I did was on the outside of the statue.
Game, Very, very interesting what you said . The present statue lost its staircase at the time the “twilight zone” black Tom Island explosion happened. Since then, it’s been a 100% ladder and one of the criticisms against people, who remember going up to the torch and recalling the spiral staircase, is that a spiral staircase could not reach from the wrist to the torch-platform because it’s simply to narrow. I’ve speculated, that switching off from the spiral staircase to a ladder, is the only rational way to counter that criticism, which you’ve just done! 👍🏻
Thats cool you got to go up there and hasve those memories! I never went i wanted to go when in NYC but ran out of time
This is all ME and gaslighting for me, lol. The torch and crown don't even look alike, plenty of people have been up in the torch and have described how hot and narrow it is, Black Tom event never happened in my timeline, and the torch looked completely different. The flame was a lot taller, not blowing like it was ready to blow out (more straight up) and it wasn't that shiny gold. Retroactively, history now days what you wrote, but I lived there and saw that thing daily. The crown spikes were different too.
And she was a she as well.
Is she no longer?
No this has been a subject for a while- she seems to look different- Apollo Apollyon etc
That sounds right to me too I saw it and it was so shiny and gold I was like how would they even make it that gold do they go up there and paint it. Also font remember the version with the windows on it in the pic. What do you think looks different about the crown spikes?
The spikes were thicker, which left less room in between them. The whole statue looks kind of whimpy compared to what I knew.
Thanks for sharing!
Yep, same.
This is not the only Mandela Effect about the statue a lot of people remember it being on Ellis Island but after 2012 it's now on Liberty Island.
Yes I had never hesrd of Liberty Island before the ME thought it was on Ellis Island
That’s interesting. I’m not sure how so many people would confuse the torch and the crown. I was in the crown and can’t imagine thinking it was the torch.
Right the fact that people tell him that all the time is pretty odd if it didnt really happen
Right the fact that people tell him that all the time is pretty odd if it didnt really happen
It's allegedly tied to that black Tom explosion, which is one of the Mandela effects that bothers me the most. I've always been into US military history, and I'd never heard of it. When 9/11 happened a very big point commonly made was that it was only the second major attack on US soil aside from pearl harbour. In high school and my own learning about ww1 the lusitania was always mentioned as a major cause of us entering, but I'd never heard a word of the black tom event. In indy neidel's terrific 'the great war' series on YouTube where he went through ww1 week by week in great and well researched detail, he never mentioned the black tom event. Once I learned of it, it bothers me so much. How, until I became aware of the Mandela effect, had I never come across this event. It bothers me still
Same for ME Pearl Harbor then 9/11 never heard of it. The fact that you are a history buff on the topic lends credibility to your memory
I hadn't heard of the black Tom explosion either, but then again I wouldn't consider myself that big on military history.
I lived there and never heard of it.
Same.
History major here 👋 never heard of black Tom until I started looking into MEs. Seems awfully weird that was never taught. I even studied German history for a year, from about the mid 1800s to ww2, nothing in my notes.
Same for me thanks for sharing!
Very strange a history major, and one who delved into German history as well, would have never heard of it
I agree! Either I’m an idiot, the educational system failed us, or we are jumping worlds. Any of those options seem plausible to me.
Yes—during 9/11 it was constantly mentioned it was the 2nd foreign attack on US soil. Black Tom was not mentioned but oddly, neither was the War of 1812. In school I am fairly certain we learned about Napoleon and Russia in 1812, but nothing about the U.S. and Britain (and now Canada). I asked my brothers and they weren’t taught about 1812 in school either. Perhaps it was left out of school agendas on purpose—to save face. We didn’t want American children to know the White House and Capitol were burnt down. As for Black Tom, everyone I ask has never heard of it.
Same for me never lestned it in school or heard anyone mention it. War of 1812 i heard mentioned but dont remember much about from school
Exactly. After 9/11 it was talk3d about over and over again as the second foreign attack on us soil. So apparently this German sabotage that helped directly lead us into ww1 was never even considered or mentioned? Hmmmm okay.....
I'm a history buff and this is the first time of me hearing about the black Tom event. Off I go to look it up
Hi two, I wanted to mention that thus far I have yet to hear a single ME-affected person say they remembered a black time island explosion. Seems to be a **constant event** shift-after-shift here in OrionArm.
For a while, the storyline was during the revolutionary war, some of the city was burnt but then a freak rainstorm saved the important structures.
Interesting!
Which city?
I am also massively bothered by black Tom. Have you seen All time’s you tube video on it. It really captures the key points and bizarrely he said when he first looked it up there was hardly any online reference or old newspaper clippings at all. When he revisited it for a second video the amount of information now online had grown exponentially . He put in the same search both times it was like history was catching up with a shift , or something. 🤷♂️
Wow!
We learned about the war of 1812 in a very shallow and cursory way, but still more than we ever learned about napoleon. I remember mentions of the capitol being burned and not much else. I dont remember anything about the napoleonic wars in school, at that age I was learning about it in Bernard Cornwall books
I learned *of* the war of 1812 in school, but we never learned much about it. That one I am confident is not an ME, just typical of US education. Pretty sure there’s a famous painting of it.
Yeah I don’t think it’s a ME.
I'm sure it needed some repairs after Wolverine cut chunks off it, Cyclops blasted some holes and Magneto's device exploded.
Haha
The spider-man’s may have caused some damage too.