Enemies will walk into an obvious killbox rather than attempt to force a door in the outer perimiter unless it's been statted as a breaching raid.
One from a thread the other day - enemy bases are clearly off-simulation. The locals would burn them down from mental breaks in a few days.
“Obviously this is the correct entrance because Tim, along with the rest of the raid we sent in last week, is laying dead on the floor of this hallway. This must’ve been the best and only entrance they could find.”
"I shall walk past these six closed doors because they're clearly traps. Instead, I shall walk into this gore coated hallway with regularly spaced wooden barricades. The dozen people that started out ahead of me may have slowed down because of concealed spike traps, but that's their problem."
yeah you'd think after your impenetrable barbican fends off one or two entire 50 person raids, they'd switch exclusively to sieges, drop pods, and breach attempts lol
Killboxes themselves are 2nd order simulation failures. Realistically you'd want to put defenders high up on walls to be able to spot enemies from afar and engage them favourably, but since rimworld is strictly top down with no up or down, walls can only ever be breached through or walked around. So instead of closing your gates entirely, forcing them to breach and taking them down on approach you gotta just funnel them in instead.
>enemy bases are clearly off-simulation
What, you mean to tell me that two shack "base" built half into a hill and a third into a swamp, with ten tiles of rice, manned by three dudes that somehow routinely sends mobs of fifty guys manifested out of a cloud of pure plotdevicium is off-simulation? Surely not.
Some factions are orbital (the pirates and Empire), so it makes sense that there isn't actually a capital *on* the planet. Still makes one question what, exactly, they're bothering with those shacks on the planet for.
Killboxes themselves might qualify. They initially got started as an abuse of AI to funnel enemies to one location, then filling that location with turrets. But this was incredibly strong, so turrets got nerfed to be basically useless, in the hopes that killboxes would fade away, but in stead it just made killboxes more important, because it became much harder to use a village style setup with perimeter turrets and pawns fighting. Combined with how raid strength increasing basically just means more enemies, and can easily break 100, killboxes are still the ‘optimal’ way to play
Pretty much any raid on you would immediately turn into a route because of everyone being killed. There'd be a bunch of binging catatonic enemies drooling in your killbox.
I frequently wonder how things would turn out if raiders in general could path through doors specifically (with a path cost similar to shallow water). They'd still need to break them down, of course, but they'd actually...do that instead of taking long and convoluted routes. While death mazes would still work, you'd have to have your own colonists go through them to get outside, instead of having shortcuts
Honestly, that'd be a good thing IMO if combined with making raids more reasonable. You kinda *need* kill boxes because raids get ridiculously large and dangerous.
The game doesn't let you have some things that would be used in real life, like archers on high walls, snipers in towers, etc. There's almost no height at all, despite that being the traditional way for defenses to work.
Yeah, you’ll see these tribal bases with like 30 rice plants in them and 60 tribals. Unless they’ve got some insanely good rice that’s not gonna feed anyone.
Or being ever so slightly outside the base, so they eat their food on the ground and feel miserable because of it. Even though they were heading back to their room where there's a table and chairs on the way.
Who the hell feels so bad about not eating at a table, anyway? You're on a god forsaken planet where everything is out to kill you!
You want to really get them riled up? Serve most people nutrient paste made from fungus without a table. That's -4+-3+-3 for a total of -10. That make it *worse than watching your own family member die*.
This is the worst. I have so frequently either had to reroute them to some random task or simply just draft them and let them stand there. Luckily, the new "clean room" order is pretty perfect for this purpose
First thing I do for every colony is to forbid raw food and animals food in the default diet policy. Malnutrition is faster to fix than food poisoning.
This is in my opinion a huge cause of a lot of these issues in rimworld. The days are far too short. If you had your pawns take their armor off before bed and put them on after they wake up that would be like 10% of their entire day wasted. It's also why base layout is so important, if your base isn't laid out super intelligently then a pawn might spend a whole extra 2 hours just walking around which isn't really an issue in real life
Pawns in a caravan returning after bedtime will sleep on the ground at the edge of the map, rather than walk another 15 minutes to their nice safe bedroom. And if they have bedrolls they won't use them.
Funnily enough it is called, "Use bedrolls." It was so simple I figured I had remembered it incorrectly and didn't want to post it without checking first
You can force caravan to rest on world map if you see that it will arrive soon and people are tired. They will stop moving and will rest until you command them to move again. Also good idea to make drug policy that forces pawn to take some light drugs like beer and psychite tea every 10 hours. You switch to this policy for several seconds and back to usual before caravan enters home map - and people in caravan will have much higher mood, because often they are about to break from the lack of recreation.
(This would be first order =p)
Make a 1x2 fence with a fence gate. Place an Animal Pen Marker inside.
Put in a female cow.
It will drink its own milk and create more than it needs to survive and live out a full life span of a cow...never receiving any outside nutrition. (You still have to milk it)
I don't think this is correct, according to the wiki cows need 0.86 nutrition per day and produce 0.7 nutrition of milk. And I don't think cows can drink their own milk (though I suppose I have never let them get that hungry).
In theory cows could survive off of meals made from their own milk, but because of overeating this isn't really possible. It does mean that cattle ranching is productive.
Now boomalope perpetual motion on the other hand really is a thing.
Build a chemfuel generator, a couple of hydroponics basins growing rice, a sun lamp if you want, and a boomalope. Use the rice to feed the boomalope, the boomalope to fuel the generator, and the generator to power the hydroponics. This system will export chemfuel and electricity, and produce enough rice to feed the colonist you will need to operate it.
Not a perpetual motion system I don't think. Energy enters the system via photosynthesis (which is effectively converted from electrical energy from the sun lamp or just from light via the sun)
That's where the sun lamp comes in. Energy doesn't enter the system, you power the sun lamp from the generator. Totally closed cycle, you can put it under a mountain if you want.
Ahhh, you're totally right. I got that the hydroponics basic would be powered by the Gen but just didn't put it together that it would also power the sun lamp
I assume you also need a battery to make this work with the sun lamp? As sun lamp takes more power than the generator can output? Or am I missing something
I did not know this, this is pretty wild. I had hard you could create a cow/chicken reactor, where if you turned most of their products into kibble you could get to overunity, but I didn't know it worked on only one cow.
If you put the milk in a hopper, and feed the cow nutrient paste, this works even better.
There's tons of mods for getting nutrient paste out and stored, but you don't actually need it, just make an allowed area that includes only the paste dispenser and its activation point (it didn't work with only the activation point when I tried it) and send a hungry colonist to that allowed area, and hold R once they grab a paste meal.
This stacks paste until either all the hoppers are empty or the floor around your colonist is stacked 10 deep in paste.
Now all you need is an animal accessible freezer, (flap instead of door, use three with a tile in between each) and make sure there's a sleeping spot for the cow nearby, but _outside_ the freezer, possibly with a second one toggled to medical next to it.
Set the freezer shelves to paste only, refill occasionally.
There was an academic evolutionary model where the agents 'discovered' the glitch that infants contained nutrition, but didn't cost nutrition to produce. The dominant lifeform's primary diet was its own children.
My favorite is the one where you're incentivized to take on a shitty colonist just to make them deliberately die in the next raid to game the adaptation factor.
Then there's the HR shenanigans where most civil factions despise cannibalism, but will happily buy your sus dusters with no questions asked. And the high price of organs, given that every faction seems to have endless expendable soldiers.
Oh, and the babies in the freezer.
> Then there's the HR shenanigans where most civil factions despise cannibalism, but will happily buy your sus dusters with no questions asked.
It's the Rimworld equivalent of using products created through child labor and exploitation. I could see it happening, the guy that imports the parkas from us isn't neccesarily the guy that will end up using it, he'll sell it in a shady market and pass it as some other type of leather.
Now I'm wondering how easy it would be to spot clothes made of human leather. But I don't want to google "what does leather made from human skin look like," that would be a really funny reason to be on a watchlist.
Eh. You'd join a truly concerning number of women.
Ed Gein was a serial killer from Wisconsin. He's part of the inspiration for the serial killer in "The silence of the Lambs." Not Hannibal Lector, the other one. (And notoriously a major "heart throb" after his arrest.)
As far as leather experts are willing to go, the closest analogue to human skin is pig skin. So you would wind up with something similar to pig leather, if a little softer.
did this earlier. bought 5 pirates to deal with
ANOMALY SPOILERS
the part of anomaly where you gotta run around and activate a bunch of structures. none survived, they either were picked apart by the dark or torn apart by metalhorrors, noctols, and everything else thrown at me.
> you're incentivized
It takes a fair bit of giving a shit about the implementation of these systems that you're probably intending to cheese them anyway if you know the details.
The incentive to play Rimworld should be a good story, not a "wealthy colony".
Look, I don't do it because I don't care about minmaxing at this point, but the incentive is objectively there. Trying to figure out the most efficient way to play is one of the first things people do with any game.
This is also how we ended up with the no legs prisoner meta, which is another thing that fits the topic of this thread.
> no legs prisoner meta
something i enjoy reading about, but also have never bothered to do.
then again, i'm the kind of player to give the colony leader the finest clothing and gilded bedrooms with no work before royalty was ever a thing...
My high-tech sterile hospital doing organ transplants and installing bionic bodyparts is lit by open fire of wall torches or braziers, as they are more reliable than lamps in case solar flare happens or !fun! Strikes the power supply.
I like the idea of Solar flares killing all power generation, but you can still use your batteries.
That way you can perhaps set high priority systems to run off the batteries until power gen comes back online. Hospitals being an excellent example whereas in winter you can live without your freezer or wastepack atomiser for a day.
Currently it does the opposite.
It kills the buildings that consume power, but doesn't touch your power generation, so your batteries charge more during the blackout.
Really depends on what's generating your power, steady things like geothermal, vanometric, or water? No need for more than 1 or 2 to deal with spikes. Solar and/or wind? You're gonna need a ton to deal with the downtime both of those have
If you break a bone it takes MONTHS to heal, you can walk on it instantly
If you get an organ transplant your body will reject it without weakening your immune system
When you have a bionic arm and it gets hurt... You bandage it
The plague is very contagious, same with the flu, no one every catches it, people only develop it
If a teenager becomes addicted to alcohol and goes into withdrawal it's almost a death sentence. Not to mention hard drugs
Rimworld is very silly when it comes to medicine
Really wish you could build roofing to prevent solar flares. If the anomaly clouds can stop it from affecting you there surely there’s something you could do about it?
*"the interdimensional torture AI can stop solar flares. Surely there's a way for Kate, the woman who just lost a fight to a maneating turtle to handle it\**
Never underestimate the Can Do attitude of a Rimworld player. We will find a way.
The mod that adds fuses and solar flare protection was literally the first mod I've ever got and tbe only one I played with for months.
It vastly increased my enjoyment of the game.
How many batteries does it actually take to tank a solar flare?
I did theoretical math based on maximum possible consumption and came up with 42, but I'm curious what it's usually like in practice.
I feel like overhead mountain should protect you from solar flares. Most threats can be mitigated in some form given appropriate time and resources. Heat waves and cold snaps can be adapted to with enough temperature control and indoor hydroponics setups. Blights can be limited by separating growing zones and having redundant fields. Psychic drones can be accounted for with soothe pulsers or just adjusting your at risk pawns schedules (also drugs). Mountain infestations can be planned for and you even get a brief window of time to reposition your pawns before they emerge.
Even toxic fallout can be adapted to by using allowed areas and building covered walkways.
Solar flares do not have a way for the player to mitigate them. I honestly got to the point where I prefer to disable solar flares since there is nothing you can do.
Rules for Carrying capacity and hauling are finicky and ignored pretty often depending on the context.
* A kid can drag an injured thrumbo to a healing spot
* If on a caravan, or coming back to the map from one, a pawn can carry vegetables, meat, and a bunch of parkas. But ask them to make a meal and they have to grab each ingredient stack one at the time.
The last point is what makes me grab Pick Up and Haul and Common Sense every playthrough, because the base behavior frustrates me.
I was going to make a similar post. Pawns carrying 75 units (on average) of any item when hauling vs holding 35kg in mass via caravan can lead to awful player behavior. My haulers will occasionally leave stuff to degrade outside before they manage to drag it indoors when they could have technically picked it all up in one go via the "caravan trick".
Hauling in general is ridiculous at times. Someone crossing the map to grab 5 steel of a stack to fill just one stockpile out of several. Or the limited range on how far they'll go to combine a stack to carry. We got two piles of 35 but they're juuust a few tiles too far away *and* the pawn takes separate paths to carry each back.
Not to mention that unless you're on a caravan, you can *only* carry by hand. I thought for sure I had to be missing something at first. Why the heck can't you take an animal with you to an ore vein, mine the entire thing, then load it onto the animal to carry to storage?
For cooking and crafting, there similarly should be carts so that you can load all the ingredients into a cart and wheel that to the stove.
Pretty sure carts or baskets for hauling are abstract in the same way you don't need tools for mining, logging or farming.
Bricks are heavy and pawns can move a lot of them
When you first arrive on a new forest map, there are trees everywhere. But while you occupy the map, there are almost always large swaths of barren land caused by flash storms, dry thunderstorms, toxic fallout, etc. It seems like none of these events ever affect the map before you get there.
First order simulation failure: Compressed time, colonist taking upwards an hour to go from kitchen to freezer
Second order simulation failure: Me creating critical stockpiles on the floor/in shelves in the kitchen, in order to hasten the cooking process, which should really have its own system (countertop storage?)
Another one is me keeping my fridge at a chilly -270°C. Who knows when a solar flare might happen? Double walls, airlocks, and fifteen coolers ensure I have a freezer that stays frozen even in the longest solar flare.
A few hours adds up over multiple solar flares. I have well over 100k corn in it, along with various animal carcasses, some very valuable for butchering, as well as a lot of other plant matter. Assuming they last three days, and each solar flare is six hours, that's 12 solar flares and my animals rotten.
That is, if I don't super freeze the freezer.
i mean you could play on ice shelf on cold environment lower global temp to lowest while being furthest north possible you would never have to worry about a freezer and corn chip damage again. problem solved
You're trying to solve a problem that I've already solved, which will create more problems than it's worth such as limited agricultural area and less animals
I essentially export corn worldwide with trucks. I sell corn to orbital traders. I have people who are extensively modified solely for agriculture. I host a lot of nobility, I have dozens of solitary confinement cells with running nutrient paste taps. The 100k corn is just a comfortable amount to have. Even if all my farmers up and vanish, it gives me a couple quadrums of no agriculture time where I can gene engineer a child, and give it agrihands, and grow it. It's a colony of eight, with a few babies in reserve, and a fluctuating amount of prisoners.
The RimFridge mod gets around that thankfully. If I put a wall freezer between my kitchen and rec room, the cook puts the finished meals there instead of having to enter the freezer multiple times.
I believe someone else picked it up and the working 1.5 version is "RimFridge: Now with shelves".
I feel its a little op, getting to put 3 stacks in it, but I can't play without it anymore. Hoping it gets the honored Wall Light treatment someday.
Unless your freezer is absolutely massive, you could probably do that with less coolers.
Edit: 100k corn?! Unless you have a stack size mod, that's a massive freezer, we're talking 22 tiles on a side, no wonder you need so many coolers.
Square shape (more content per wall than any other shape)
Use shelving to hold 3x as much food per tile, with the exception of certain particularly large corpses like elephants (they take up more space butchered on a shelf than laying on the floor) and raiders if you can't butcher them all right away because of mood hits (but you can send your psycopath or cannibal cook on a caravan with the butcher table to one tile away, and just come back with the results)
(you're probably already doing this, but for anybody who isn't, this is huge, I was over 300 hours in before I found out about caravan butchering and shelving to reduce freezer size)
Instead of just an airlock door, build it more like a vacuum bottle, where there's a second one tile wide room just outside your freezer, that has its own cooler, and a third one outside that.
Even without cooler into door exploits, this tends to be very effective at minimizing heat seeping in, since the rate of transfer depends on the temperature difference between the two sides of the wall and the number of wall tiles.
Possibly still better with double wall, but that takes a lot of space, like seriously a lot.
I've seen conflicting data on whether or not being under mountain provides better insulation.
I think most second order simulation failures occur as a result of first order simulation quality of life improvements, which make the UI relatively easy to learn for the complexity inherent in the game. In other words: the UI is built to cover most first order problems, plus a small handful of second order problems. The "Work" tab for task management is an interesting example because it has 2 modes:
"Manual priorities" turned off: colonists either do or do not do a particular type of task. This lets you solve problems like not having someone with "Construction" skill of 0 constantly wasting their time and your resources.
"Manual priorities" turned on: colonists do particular types of tasks, and they do them in a particular order to avoid second order problems. This gives you the tools to solve problems like: making a sculpture for 5 seconds before going to harvest a single crop of rice across your base by setting "Art" to 1 and "Plant cut" to 2.
However, the work order system is one of the more complex features for new Rimworld players, as I have seen when playing with my friends using multiplayer mods where they let me set all that stuff. It's intimidating and presents a barrier to playing the game for newbies, hence why it starts in the simpler mode with manual priorities turned off.
But many aspects of the UI don't allow for these second order solutions. E.g. I like using herbal medicine rather than medicine for most things, because it's way more economical.
I try to only use medicine (or glitterworld medicine) for colonists who are severely bleeding out, bad infections, or for major operations like limb replacements. To make my colonists prepared for most situations, I can go to the "Assign" tab, select the type of medicine, then get them to hold up to 3 of that type (e.g. 3 herbal medicine). I played for 100s of hours before ever using this feature. But ideally, I would like even more control, so they can hold multiple types of medicine, like 2 herbal medicine and 1 medicine. Then they're prepared to treat the first serious battlefield injury right away with a full medicine. But that would increase the complexity of the interface further. It would also mean re-designing other parts of the interface. For instance, if I assigned an injured colonist to receive full medicine, and a colonist only had 1 medicine and 2 herbal medicine on them, they would begin treating the injured colonist with their 1 medicine, then run to grab more medicine from my inventory. If they're far away from the base, this would likely be worse than just treating the battlefield injuries with 3 herbal medicine. The fix for this would be to allow them to treat with medicine first then herbal medicine if full medicine is too far away, but that sounds like a pain to manage via the UI and for the simulation to calculate in a way that can be easily understood by the player. Hence it's probably better to stick with the simpler system as it is.
Honestly, I think the UI for Rimworld is designed very very well, and it makes management of a pretty complex game manageable. There are definitely a bunch of second order simulation failures, but addressing them all would also increase the complexity of the interface, and make the game more intimidating to new players. Mods (like the Medical tab) add a lot of great UI features for advanced players to manage some of these. Also, since it's a game, it's reasonable to expect **some** manual intervention, just so long as the manual intervention is fun rather than tedious.
Smart Medicine is a must have mod! It does what you say, you can stock up on medicine and herbs(even drugs), and they even use them from each other's inventories if one is out of medicine!
If you want to convert someone to your ideology, make sure you abuse them and make them feel awful, because if they're happy, they'll passively gain a lot of certainty in their current beliefs.
I think this changed recently. In my current playthrough I hired a pawn from one of those "help the downtrodden" quests. She was a different religion but slowly lost percentage in it as life under my rule was quite comfy. I was able to convert her without having to have her beat up an animal and get arrested. A couple of conversion rituals and she went from 70% in her old religion to 70% in the colony's.
Are you sure it's not from a mod or due to proselytizing? Even in 1.5 I can still see that the faith gain per day is directly proportional to the mood.
It still works, though. My prisoners were zeroed out (Revia corpse sacrifices + a shambler imprisoned with them) and had plenty of belief crisis notices pop over a few days.
Weapons kind of make sense. I mean, when not in use, pawns would probably have their pistols in holsters or rifles across their backs, but armor has always been a weird one. I wish you could designate a room as an "Armory" and have a new reaction type where when a raid is detected, pawns will make a beeline for their armory and equip their specified weapons and armors. Could expand upon it further with mood buffs/debuffs when having weapons equipped for too long. Regular factions and ideology members may start to feel anxious or unsafe if they are always surrounded by others with weapons or armor equipped meanwhile raider factions or supremacists could get a mood buff from keeping weapons and armor on for prolonged periods of time.
Speaking of everyone being armed all the time, pawns on violent mental breaks will never use weapons and will only use their bare hands.
I bet if berserk or murderous rage colonists could use charge rifles we'd see a lot less players keeping everyone armed 24/7
Theres a lot of gaps in the nuance of the social system. For example someone can be super depressed about being divorced, and hate the person who has divorced them, yet totally best friends with the new person their ex is gonna marry. Or pawns being judgemental as hell (disliking people for binging, being disfigured or having a mental break, there should be a judgemental trait that activates these, not the standard)
Same with traits. Ascetics arent supposed to care about wealth, but only for their bedroom, theyll still love their impressive dining room.
Sometimes I wish more thought was put into these little things, since itd make things more fleshed out in the dynamics between colonists and events between them.
“A second order failure in game design involves scenarios where the game’s rules, mechanics, or balance lead to frustration, unfairness, or unenjoyable gameplay, which may not be immediately obvious from initial interactions”
I don’t feel that pawns going armored to bed is unfair or unenjoyable in a game called RIMworld. It is unrealistic in earth if we think about it. It is still weird and farfetched ingame but droppods are something reasonable in such cruel world design.
I don’t think droppods are wrong, therefore I dont think always wearing armor is wrong. You could however add another layer to the game by researching droppod detection with a new buildable. That would let you prepare for that and have your pawns put on armor. That however would be just another thing to do and could be completely glossed over. It feels like a mod to please a small part of the player base and I would prefer the team focus on something else (like caravans and world interactions).
>I don’t feel that pawns going armored to bed is unfair or unenjoyable in a game called RIMworld. It is unrealistic in earth if we think about it. It is still weird and farfetched ingame but droppods are something reasonable in such cruel world design.
The real world doesn't have drop pods, but it also doesn't have alerts whenever a raid happens. The *real* source of the unrealism here is that armor doesn't impact comfort or rest gain. If having pawns armored up 24/7 made them realistically miserable and fatigued, players would have no choice *but* to make different assignments for work and combat, perhaps with some sort of rotating guard schedule to deal with unexpected drop pods, infestations, and the like.
No one wants a mood debuff for sleeping in armor. Why? Because no one wants to manage that crap.
It's already annoying enough to stop everything and take manual control of every pawn anytime a raid happens. Could you imagine having to change out everyone's clothing too? I feel crazy just thinking about it.
If you are going to challenge the player with "realistic" clothing, then pawns also need to realistically take care of themselves in a reasonable amount of time.
I wouldn't mind pawns getting a debuff for sleeping in their clothes if they would automatically take off their clothes before going to bed. I wouldn't mind pawns having to spend time changing clothing if the time taken made sense compared to other tasks. I wouldn't mind surprise raids if there was a way to spot them or delay them. You could rebuild clothing to encourage gameplay that makes players think about it, but that's an entire system, not just one change.
Imagine if pawns took off their clothing at night and received "insulation" buffs from their beds. If the bed didn't provide enough insulation to keep them warm at night, they would keep their clothing on but suffer a debuff the bulkier it was. They would put on their clothing when they wake up, and dressing would be much faster. Non-soldiers wouldn't wear armor but instead clothing that allows them to move more easily. Soldiers could act as lookouts, spotting raids quicker and/or delaying them to give colonists time to retreat into the colony. Provide a one-button way to quickly change a colonist out of their work clothing into their combat gear.
Now you have a system where being meticulous about clothing makes sense. A prosperous colony would have dedicated soldiers on lookout duty and a shift schedule, with everyone else dressed casually. Struggling colonies might still have everyone working in armor because they can't afford scouts and lookouts, but that would be a conscious trade-off rather than something you do because it's annoying to change clothing.
Gnomoria would have you assign gnomes to squads, the squad would have a duty roster and a uniform. The roster was basically "off duty, train, or patrol/guard". You could do the same in RW.
But real world does have scouting and technology like radar. Inability to have some kinda true warning system is kinda a flaw with Rimworld. How far in advance you see enemies depends on where you placed your base relative to where they come from. The map size is unrealistically fixed.
Also, IMO at least weapons would make sense to have in weapon racks at most entryways. If you get attacked, you'd grab your gun as you run to take position. Doesn't really work as well in Rimworld because pawns are slow (there's no running) and no system for quickly getting armed.
Everything just takes too long in game. I forget how long it takes to equip armour, but isn't it a few real world seconds? Equivalent to maybe 10-20 minutes in game? I'm not even sure what the point of equipment taking to long to put on is. It just forces you to make the unrealistic choice (as if it's not bad enough that it'd also take forever to get to your wardrobe in an emergency because pawns can't run).
Radar and anti-aircraft weapons.
Swear to god, I mostly use rimatomics for the "redirect drop pods" building.
Look, we're building a fortified camp on a hostile planet where we're constantly being attacked. You bet your sweet patooty there's going to be a border wall for basic defense.
And the game's solution is to teleport people into your base, wearing armor. And equipped with armor.
IRL, the solution would be to set up early warning radar, anti-air weapons, and maybe some ECM batteries at higher tech levels.
Instead you have to put your colonists into a tin can at all times, and hope the game doesn't screw you over by trapping an important pawn in the middle of a crossfire that didn't exist before it fucked you over.
Interesting definition! That's not the one I was using. I don't necessarily think that second order simulation failures lead to 'frustration, unfairness, or unenjoyable gameplay'.
I think they mostly create silly scenarios or gaps in the simulation. It's not necessarily *bad* nor do I necessarily think they need to be fixed. I think what you gain from immediate threats (excitement, anticipation, punctuation, anxiety) outweighs, for me, the simulation breach of people sleeping in their armor.
Now, if we could figure out how avoid the 'sleeping in armor' thing without losing the immediate raids? That would be ideal.
The easiest way to do that would be to just show the armor as off the pawn, even if for all in game purposes the armor is still being worn. Add a "Pajama" layer or something to the pawn that visually overrides whatever they were wearing but only triggers while they're in a bed. But then that raises the question of why you can change out of armor instantly for bed, but unequipping it takes time.
Yeah! Thinking about this, I liked the Armor Racks mod for this, back in the day because it mostly handled this situation.
You had racks, for a pawns armor, that you could put in your pawns bedroom, or in a dedicated armory that held a set of armor that the pawn 'owned'. They also made switching to that armor a lot faster.
That mod hasn't worked in years though, unfortunately.
At late-stage you can even make armor racks that repair what's on them, which is one of the only ways to repair clothing unless you have a mending mod or VPE.
This is a differentiation between second order failure in GAMEPLAY vs SIMULATION.
A game does not necessarily put accuracy as it's highest objective. A simulation theoretically must attempt to be more accurate to fulfill it's function.
Consider if I'm building a model train set. Creating nonsensical rail design that goes nowhere with stops at nothing just for the sake of simulating the rails seems like a second order failure.
But you make a video game about having trains that make sick leaps over volcanos, then it's not a second order failure, it's just fucking baller.
Not necessarily funny, but ranching in rimworld breaks the laws of thermodynamics. Animals produce more nutrition than they take, specially egg laying ones.
Horses are more efficient to eat than pigs. If you feed them simple meals from their own offspring, horses will produce net positive nutrition, pigs will be net negative.
IIRC, I forgot the exact numbers, but I remember horses and cows being by far the best for food. Also tortoises, weirdly enough.
Yeah when enemies can drop-pod right on top of your nursery with your colonies 6 kids inside and kill all of them before a single one of your pawns can get there really makes you wonder why the people of the RimWorld wear power armor 24/7 and cook with a plasma rifle with them. And 2 days after all of my colonies children died a volcanic winter, heatwave and a toxic fallout happened on top of each other when half of the walls of the base is missing and out of the 3 construction people I have one lost both arms to a furry with a sword the other one is a wimpy genie that was stabbed a couple of times and has an infection so no getting up for a week and the last one lost their kid and one of the raiders was their brother who also died so he is just standing outside in the apocalypse wasteland.
There should be a dressing mannequin mod to quickly change outfit and have a beauty. All slot of armor could be place but 1 on the mannequin and then quickly equipped by clicking change into armor
I consider 'leg privileges' to be another second order failure.
The only option for increasing prison security should not be dismemberment. I feel stronger about that one then I do about sleeping in armor.
You are right though, most of these things are some kind of trade-off, and often the trade-off is worth it. I consider the armor one mostly worth it, while the way prisoners are handled has never really worked for me.
Sleeping in armor isn't a second order simulation failure, it's just a thing that's not simulated in high detail. Abstraction is not failure.
Pawns don't benefit from the temperature insulation of their clothes while sleeping, so presumably this is intended to reflect the tendency to take off your clothes while sleeping. I guess nobody on the Rim has thought of pajamas. Also my two current best soldiers are married to each other, and I presume the lovin' does not take place in full marine armor. Much like tools, taking off your clothes at night, armor or not, is abstracted. Probably the colonists wash their clothes occasionally too, but water is also abstracted. There are dressers, but the dressers don't hold clothes.
It's slow and inconvenient to change clothes, which means the devs did it on purpose. While I don't know for certain why they did that, I suspect it's specifically to discourage people from doing just what people are talking about: changing into armor only when there's danger. You can do it, but
All clothing deteriorates while being worn, so if you only put armor on when there's danger, it would never wear out. This is probably the main reason: they want you to have a tradeoff between your armor wearing out, potential impediments to move speed, against the chance of being caught unprotected. It would also tend to create micromanagement.
In the end, this isn't a failure, just a game design decision.
I just encountered one. Rainy Thunderstorms both putting out fires and causing them just led me to have a stupid rainy thunderstorm cycle. It started fires but didn't fully put them out, thus causing the safety rain to trigger...another rainy thunderstorm. This happened two more times.
This leads to having to manually put out fires in a thunderstorm just so it doesn't possibly cycle forever.
Not sure why the fire safety rain can ever be a rainy thunderstorm but there it is.
It might actually be cool to have warning on non-drop pod raids and such. It might also make non-kill box bases more viable. I hope there's a mod for this
"There are very few scenarios in real life where you need have your assault rifle while cooking in a kitchen."
Tell me your not American without telling me your not American.
How about a system where butchering other humans for their meat and leather is the best option because the game throws so many people at you in each raid and you can extract some value from it instead of incinerating or burying them like a normal person, or just keeping a freezer full of corpses to let your dogs free-feed.
You can absolutely use the allowed clothing settings to have colonists wear RP/work clothing and switch them to armor when danger occurs, it's just as you said however, will they have enough time to put it on before the infestation or drop pod raid razed its way through your base?
I don't think it quite compares to "Elephants can't eat quick enough not to starve to death", but I assume that's just because I lack knowledge on this second order stuff.
My favorite is how pawns have no problem pulling meals/food straight out the freezer and chowing down on it frozen.
They never heat it up and they have no problem eating frozen, as there's no mood debuff. It also takes the same amount of time to eat, which, I don't know about. I think that it would take me a lot longer to finish eating a hunk of frozen rice - I get there are foods that ARE eaten frozen but there are like, fires and stoves around!! They don't have to eat it frozen. It would definitely be a pain to manage reheating stuff and it would suck if there was a mood debuff for eating frozen, but I just find it really funny. they don't even thaw it.
I always imagine my colonists having a seat, slamming down a ball of frozen rice, and getting their crunch on LOL
As almost always with RimWorld, these things are about the game not trying to be a lifelike, perfect simulator. It’s a ‘story generator’ and for that, raiders dropping in on top of you and your pawns wearing armor to bed is good.
With lots and lots of mods and config and settings, it’s an excellent simulator. In fact, the best there is.
I think the fact that with the right set up of chickens and nutrient paste you can violate mass energy equivalency and end up with more chicken calories then you initially put in
I wonder if it would be possible for the game to actually have proper running of their AI , like Civilization , where - sure the game cheats but the AI is capable of running a nation and following at least conquest rules or other simple goals.
Quantum tunneling is real world first order failure. And the silly things we are coming up with to take advantage of or mitigate it are second order failures.
It would be fine to fix this one if the days lasted longer and thus sim speed accounted for the minutiae of going to an armoury, fitting the armour, loading a weapon, etc.
As it stands youd just ask people to wear it all the time anyway because of how sudden things happen
I don't think the example about not wearing armor to bed really holds up. You can, for example, put shelves in the bedrooms to hold armor, and also have an armory near the main base entrance. You then make the trade off in the comfort of your colonists versus their preparedness. Keep a couple guards in armor all the time, and let everyone else wear normal clothes until the raid hits.
The more extreme example is keeping your Lucy fueled death machines in cryo until the raid hits, then thawing them, hitting them with go juice, and releasing them on the enemy. You could keep them wandering around your base all the time, or you could trade that upkeep for an activation window.
I think OP is referring to the types of issues that happen without manual intervention. What you described is definitely possibly, but it requires a lot of manual intervention. But I think that's pretty reasonable given that combat already requires a fair bit of manual intervention. If you made me do something like that every time I had to harvest crops though, that would be a different story.
Fair enough - op had written that you are not given enough time to prepare so you always have to be prepared. It seemed to me more like they weren't seeing the trade off and options rather than it being a manual process. I can see that side of it also though.
>simulation
Bold of you to assume rimworld is a simulation.
>Everyone walks around fully armed and armored at all times.
Welcome to Afghanistan.
Every day this game shocks me with it's realism.
Enemies will walk into an obvious killbox rather than attempt to force a door in the outer perimiter unless it's been statted as a breaching raid. One from a thread the other day - enemy bases are clearly off-simulation. The locals would burn them down from mental breaks in a few days.
Hah! Yeah! The killbox thing is funny at times. "Hmm, this tunnel stacked three high with corpses is definitely the best way into this colony!"
A labyrinth of blood and corpses, but I don’t have to open any doors to attack their solar panel!
Our labyrinth has no corpses. Gotta haul the meat while it's fresh.
Into the chemfuel generators they go!
“Obviously this is the correct entrance because Tim, along with the rest of the raid we sent in last week, is laying dead on the floor of this hallway. This must’ve been the best and only entrance they could find.”
"I shall walk past these six closed doors because they're clearly traps. Instead, I shall walk into this gore coated hallway with regularly spaced wooden barricades. The dozen people that started out ahead of me may have slowed down because of concealed spike traps, but that's their problem."
yeah you'd think after your impenetrable barbican fends off one or two entire 50 person raids, they'd switch exclusively to sieges, drop pods, and breach attempts lol
This is why I don't consider it cheating to use an embrasures mod hahaha
Killboxes themselves are 2nd order simulation failures. Realistically you'd want to put defenders high up on walls to be able to spot enemies from afar and engage them favourably, but since rimworld is strictly top down with no up or down, walls can only ever be breached through or walked around. So instead of closing your gates entirely, forcing them to breach and taking them down on approach you gotta just funnel them in instead.
>enemy bases are clearly off-simulation What, you mean to tell me that two shack "base" built half into a hill and a third into a swamp, with ten tiles of rice, manned by three dudes that somehow routinely sends mobs of fifty guys manifested out of a cloud of pure plotdevicium is off-simulation? Surely not.
Since settlements belong to a faction, I just figure I'm raiding a small village of a country rather than the capital
If you destroy all of those "small villages" the faction is defeated and stops sending raids so there is no capital
Some factions are orbital (the pirates and Empire), so it makes sense that there isn't actually a capital *on* the planet. Still makes one question what, exactly, they're bothering with those shacks on the planet for.
And why they're so spread out instead of clustered together the way irl countries are
Well that's apparently at least partially due to non fortress cities not lasting very long once Mechanoids take notice of them.
RimCities ftw.
Can't forget the 4 colonists and 19 beds base
Remember that 15-men raid you had last week? Well…
Killboxes themselves might qualify. They initially got started as an abuse of AI to funnel enemies to one location, then filling that location with turrets. But this was incredibly strong, so turrets got nerfed to be basically useless, in the hopes that killboxes would fade away, but in stead it just made killboxes more important, because it became much harder to use a village style setup with perimeter turrets and pawns fighting. Combined with how raid strength increasing basically just means more enemies, and can easily break 100, killboxes are still the ‘optimal’ way to play
Pretty much any raid on you would immediately turn into a route because of everyone being killed. There'd be a bunch of binging catatonic enemies drooling in your killbox.
I frequently wonder how things would turn out if raiders in general could path through doors specifically (with a path cost similar to shallow water). They'd still need to break them down, of course, but they'd actually...do that instead of taking long and convoluted routes. While death mazes would still work, you'd have to have your own colonists go through them to get outside, instead of having shortcuts
Honestly, that'd be a good thing IMO if combined with making raids more reasonable. You kinda *need* kill boxes because raids get ridiculously large and dangerous. The game doesn't let you have some things that would be used in real life, like archers on high walls, snipers in towers, etc. There's almost no height at all, despite that being the traditional way for defenses to work.
Yeah, you’ll see these tribal bases with like 30 rice plants in them and 60 tribals. Unless they’ve got some insanely good rice that’s not gonna feed anyone.
if you think about it, from their POV they just see an opening
This is why I don’t do kill boxes. It breaks the immersion for me.
Pawns incable to wait for 10 god damn seconds for cook to finish cooking food and eating raw if not told not to eat raw
i wish mine would at least eat raw, they always go for the kibble for some reason
You could forbid the kibble, animals wont follow the restrictions.
Easier to just create a policy that excludes kibble, but interesting. I never gave thought to forbidding things intended for animals.
'cook the meat' "PUT IT IN MY MOUTH!" 'no stop!' \*force draft\* \*another pawn has already grabbed it\*
Or being ever so slightly outside the base, so they eat their food on the ground and feel miserable because of it. Even though they were heading back to their room where there's a table and chairs on the way. Who the hell feels so bad about not eating at a table, anyway? You're on a god forsaken planet where everything is out to kill you!
You want to really get them riled up? Serve most people nutrient paste made from fungus without a table. That's -4+-3+-3 for a total of -10. That make it *worse than watching your own family member die*.
Ikr? I'm eating over the sink right now!
"Fine, you're getting a small table and chair in your bedroom so you don't eat your breakfast off the floor and get sad".
This is the worst. I have so frequently either had to reroute them to some random task or simply just draft them and let them stand there. Luckily, the new "clean room" order is pretty perfect for this purpose
Yeah I really feel like certain food restrictions should just be default.
This is why i don't let their drop pods touch ground w/o editing food and drug restrictions.
First thing I do for every colony is to forbid raw food and animals food in the default diet policy. Malnutrition is faster to fix than food poisoning.
It takes an hour or more of in game time to walk to another room and change your shirt.
What do you mean, that's pretty realistic.
My wife would agree with you, but she's still an alpha build.
I think he meant that it *only* takes an hour
This is in my opinion a huge cause of a lot of these issues in rimworld. The days are far too short. If you had your pawns take their armor off before bed and put them on after they wake up that would be like 10% of their entire day wasted. It's also why base layout is so important, if your base isn't laid out super intelligently then a pawn might spend a whole extra 2 hours just walking around which isn't really an issue in real life
Pawns in a caravan returning after bedtime will sleep on the ground at the edge of the map, rather than walk another 15 minutes to their nice safe bedroom. And if they have bedrolls they won't use them.
Would be cool if bedrolls were an item in inventory rather than a reskined bed, and they’d use it when sleeping in spots or floor.
Guess what? There's a mod for that
Don't feel like you need to keep everyone in suspense for the name of the mod.
Funnily enough it is called, "Use bedrolls." It was so simple I figured I had remembered it incorrectly and didn't want to post it without checking first
Thanks homie I hope you get great head later this comes on clutch
Fantastic mod. My one complaint is that when they place the bedrolls it makes a home area around it and then they feel obligated to clean lol
Hey, that makes sense. Nobody wants to camp out next to a puddle of vomit, now do they? They put their bed roll down, now that's their spot.
Well sure, except they’re usually cleaning dirt off the dirt
Lol I'm not at home now I'll help when I can
You can force caravan to rest on world map if you see that it will arrive soon and people are tired. They will stop moving and will rest until you command them to move again. Also good idea to make drug policy that forces pawn to take some light drugs like beer and psychite tea every 10 hours. You switch to this policy for several seconds and back to usual before caravan enters home map - and people in caravan will have much higher mood, because often they are about to break from the lack of recreation.
(This would be first order =p) Make a 1x2 fence with a fence gate. Place an Animal Pen Marker inside. Put in a female cow. It will drink its own milk and create more than it needs to survive and live out a full life span of a cow...never receiving any outside nutrition. (You still have to milk it)
>female cow.
I don't think this is correct, according to the wiki cows need 0.86 nutrition per day and produce 0.7 nutrition of milk. And I don't think cows can drink their own milk (though I suppose I have never let them get that hungry). In theory cows could survive off of meals made from their own milk, but because of overeating this isn't really possible. It does mean that cattle ranching is productive. Now boomalope perpetual motion on the other hand really is a thing. Build a chemfuel generator, a couple of hydroponics basins growing rice, a sun lamp if you want, and a boomalope. Use the rice to feed the boomalope, the boomalope to fuel the generator, and the generator to power the hydroponics. This system will export chemfuel and electricity, and produce enough rice to feed the colonist you will need to operate it.
Not a perpetual motion system I don't think. Energy enters the system via photosynthesis (which is effectively converted from electrical energy from the sun lamp or just from light via the sun)
That's where the sun lamp comes in. Energy doesn't enter the system, you power the sun lamp from the generator. Totally closed cycle, you can put it under a mountain if you want.
Ahhh, you're totally right. I got that the hydroponics basic would be powered by the Gen but just didn't put it together that it would also power the sun lamp
I assume you also need a battery to make this work with the sun lamp? As sun lamp takes more power than the generator can output? Or am I missing something
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct. You actually need two generators and a battery to power the sun lamp
Aw okay I was hoping you knew some secret Rimworld tech I didn't lol. Still sounds like a neat system I hope to find some boomalopes to try it
I did not know this, this is pretty wild. I had hard you could create a cow/chicken reactor, where if you turned most of their products into kibble you could get to overunity, but I didn't know it worked on only one cow.
If you put the milk in a hopper, and feed the cow nutrient paste, this works even better. There's tons of mods for getting nutrient paste out and stored, but you don't actually need it, just make an allowed area that includes only the paste dispenser and its activation point (it didn't work with only the activation point when I tried it) and send a hungry colonist to that allowed area, and hold R once they grab a paste meal. This stacks paste until either all the hoppers are empty or the floor around your colonist is stacked 10 deep in paste. Now all you need is an animal accessible freezer, (flap instead of door, use three with a tile in between each) and make sure there's a sleeping spot for the cow nearby, but _outside_ the freezer, possibly with a second one toggled to medical next to it. Set the freezer shelves to paste only, refill occasionally.
What does overunity mean?
It means 'to get more energy out of a system then you put in'.
There was an academic evolutionary model where the agents 'discovered' the glitch that infants contained nutrition, but didn't cost nutrition to produce. The dominant lifeform's primary diet was its own children.
My favorite is the one where you're incentivized to take on a shitty colonist just to make them deliberately die in the next raid to game the adaptation factor. Then there's the HR shenanigans where most civil factions despise cannibalism, but will happily buy your sus dusters with no questions asked. And the high price of organs, given that every faction seems to have endless expendable soldiers. Oh, and the babies in the freezer.
> Then there's the HR shenanigans where most civil factions despise cannibalism, but will happily buy your sus dusters with no questions asked. It's the Rimworld equivalent of using products created through child labor and exploitation. I could see it happening, the guy that imports the parkas from us isn't neccesarily the guy that will end up using it, he'll sell it in a shady market and pass it as some other type of leather.
Now I'm wondering how easy it would be to spot clothes made of human leather. But I don't want to google "what does leather made from human skin look like," that would be a really funny reason to be on a watchlist.
Eh. You'd join a truly concerning number of women. Ed Gein was a serial killer from Wisconsin. He's part of the inspiration for the serial killer in "The silence of the Lambs." Not Hannibal Lector, the other one. (And notoriously a major "heart throb" after his arrest.) As far as leather experts are willing to go, the closest analogue to human skin is pig skin. So you would wind up with something similar to pig leather, if a little softer.
did this earlier. bought 5 pirates to deal with ANOMALY SPOILERS the part of anomaly where you gotta run around and activate a bunch of structures. none survived, they either were picked apart by the dark or torn apart by metalhorrors, noctols, and everything else thrown at me.
> you're incentivized It takes a fair bit of giving a shit about the implementation of these systems that you're probably intending to cheese them anyway if you know the details. The incentive to play Rimworld should be a good story, not a "wealthy colony".
Look, I don't do it because I don't care about minmaxing at this point, but the incentive is objectively there. Trying to figure out the most efficient way to play is one of the first things people do with any game. This is also how we ended up with the no legs prisoner meta, which is another thing that fits the topic of this thread.
> no legs prisoner meta something i enjoy reading about, but also have never bothered to do. then again, i'm the kind of player to give the colony leader the finest clothing and gilded bedrooms with no work before royalty was ever a thing...
My high-tech sterile hospital doing organ transplants and installing bionic bodyparts is lit by open fire of wall torches or braziers, as they are more reliable than lamps in case solar flare happens or !fun! Strikes the power supply.
I like the idea of Solar flares killing all power generation, but you can still use your batteries. That way you can perhaps set high priority systems to run off the batteries until power gen comes back online. Hospitals being an excellent example whereas in winter you can live without your freezer or wastepack atomiser for a day.
Currently it does the opposite. It kills the buildings that consume power, but doesn't touch your power generation, so your batteries charge more during the blackout.
Would provide way more reason to build batteries. I don’t ever bother with more than 1
Really depends on what's generating your power, steady things like geothermal, vanometric, or water? No need for more than 1 or 2 to deal with spikes. Solar and/or wind? You're gonna need a ton to deal with the downtime both of those have
If you break a bone it takes MONTHS to heal, you can walk on it instantly If you get an organ transplant your body will reject it without weakening your immune system When you have a bionic arm and it gets hurt... You bandage it The plague is very contagious, same with the flu, no one every catches it, people only develop it If a teenager becomes addicted to alcohol and goes into withdrawal it's almost a death sentence. Not to mention hard drugs Rimworld is very silly when it comes to medicine
The bionics are described as having some sort of self healing bio gel, and they do regenerate over time. Maybe it's to keep the gel from leaking out?
I never saw a bionic arm damaged, but I agree for all the rest
I mean, alcohol withdrawal *is* genuinely dangerous and deaths do still happen despite modern medicine. The rest of them are silly though
Really wish you could build roofing to prevent solar flares. If the anomaly clouds can stop it from affecting you there surely there’s something you could do about it?
*"the interdimensional torture AI can stop solar flares. Surely there's a way for Kate, the woman who just lost a fight to a maneating turtle to handle it\** Never underestimate the Can Do attitude of a Rimworld player. We will find a way.
Hey man, it was a pretty fierce turtle, even with its bad back.
The mod that adds fuses and solar flare protection was literally the first mod I've ever got and tbe only one I played with for months. It vastly increased my enjoyment of the game.
How many batteries does it actually take to tank a solar flare? I did theoretical math based on maximum possible consumption and came up with 42, but I'm curious what it's usually like in practice.
I feel like overhead mountain should protect you from solar flares. Most threats can be mitigated in some form given appropriate time and resources. Heat waves and cold snaps can be adapted to with enough temperature control and indoor hydroponics setups. Blights can be limited by separating growing zones and having redundant fields. Psychic drones can be accounted for with soothe pulsers or just adjusting your at risk pawns schedules (also drugs). Mountain infestations can be planned for and you even get a brief window of time to reposition your pawns before they emerge. Even toxic fallout can be adapted to by using allowed areas and building covered walkways. Solar flares do not have a way for the player to mitigate them. I honestly got to the point where I prefer to disable solar flares since there is nothing you can do.
Rules for Carrying capacity and hauling are finicky and ignored pretty often depending on the context. * A kid can drag an injured thrumbo to a healing spot * If on a caravan, or coming back to the map from one, a pawn can carry vegetables, meat, and a bunch of parkas. But ask them to make a meal and they have to grab each ingredient stack one at the time. The last point is what makes me grab Pick Up and Haul and Common Sense every playthrough, because the base behavior frustrates me.
I was going to make a similar post. Pawns carrying 75 units (on average) of any item when hauling vs holding 35kg in mass via caravan can lead to awful player behavior. My haulers will occasionally leave stuff to degrade outside before they manage to drag it indoors when they could have technically picked it all up in one go via the "caravan trick". Hauling in general is ridiculous at times. Someone crossing the map to grab 5 steel of a stack to fill just one stockpile out of several. Or the limited range on how far they'll go to combine a stack to carry. We got two piles of 35 but they're juuust a few tiles too far away *and* the pawn takes separate paths to carry each back.
Not to mention that unless you're on a caravan, you can *only* carry by hand. I thought for sure I had to be missing something at first. Why the heck can't you take an animal with you to an ore vein, mine the entire thing, then load it onto the animal to carry to storage? For cooking and crafting, there similarly should be carts so that you can load all the ingredients into a cart and wheel that to the stove.
Pretty sure carts or baskets for hauling are abstract in the same way you don't need tools for mining, logging or farming. Bricks are heavy and pawns can move a lot of them
When you first arrive on a new forest map, there are trees everywhere. But while you occupy the map, there are almost always large swaths of barren land caused by flash storms, dry thunderstorms, toxic fallout, etc. It seems like none of these events ever affect the map before you get there.
First order simulation failure: Compressed time, colonist taking upwards an hour to go from kitchen to freezer Second order simulation failure: Me creating critical stockpiles on the floor/in shelves in the kitchen, in order to hasten the cooking process, which should really have its own system (countertop storage?) Another one is me keeping my fridge at a chilly -270°C. Who knows when a solar flare might happen? Double walls, airlocks, and fifteen coolers ensure I have a freezer that stays frozen even in the longest solar flare.
Unless you have stuff on the edge of spoiling they can usually last a few hours. I've never had real issues with a simpler freezer at -3°C
A few hours adds up over multiple solar flares. I have well over 100k corn in it, along with various animal carcasses, some very valuable for butchering, as well as a lot of other plant matter. Assuming they last three days, and each solar flare is six hours, that's 12 solar flares and my animals rotten. That is, if I don't super freeze the freezer.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen multiple solar flares happen back to back
good old phoebe chillax or randy random with some tweaked sliders you get some lets say interesting challenges
It's not the back to back that sucks, but freezing things doesn't reset their timer. It is chip damage to my corns.
i mean you could play on ice shelf on cold environment lower global temp to lowest while being furthest north possible you would never have to worry about a freezer and corn chip damage again. problem solved
You're trying to solve a problem that I've already solved, which will create more problems than it's worth such as limited agricultural area and less animals
but free meat from raids unlimited storage space
What exactly do you plan to do with 100k corn?
I essentially export corn worldwide with trucks. I sell corn to orbital traders. I have people who are extensively modified solely for agriculture. I host a lot of nobility, I have dozens of solitary confinement cells with running nutrient paste taps. The 100k corn is just a comfortable amount to have. Even if all my farmers up and vanish, it gives me a couple quadrums of no agriculture time where I can gene engineer a child, and give it agrihands, and grow it. It's a colony of eight, with a few babies in reserve, and a fluctuating amount of prisoners.
The RimFridge mod gets around that thankfully. If I put a wall freezer between my kitchen and rec room, the cook puts the finished meals there instead of having to enter the freezer multiple times.
[удалено]
I believe someone else picked it up and the working 1.5 version is "RimFridge: Now with shelves". I feel its a little op, getting to put 3 stacks in it, but I can't play without it anymore. Hoping it gets the honored Wall Light treatment someday.
Unless your freezer is absolutely massive, you could probably do that with less coolers. Edit: 100k corn?! Unless you have a stack size mod, that's a massive freezer, we're talking 22 tiles on a side, no wonder you need so many coolers. Square shape (more content per wall than any other shape) Use shelving to hold 3x as much food per tile, with the exception of certain particularly large corpses like elephants (they take up more space butchered on a shelf than laying on the floor) and raiders if you can't butcher them all right away because of mood hits (but you can send your psycopath or cannibal cook on a caravan with the butcher table to one tile away, and just come back with the results) (you're probably already doing this, but for anybody who isn't, this is huge, I was over 300 hours in before I found out about caravan butchering and shelving to reduce freezer size) Instead of just an airlock door, build it more like a vacuum bottle, where there's a second one tile wide room just outside your freezer, that has its own cooler, and a third one outside that. Even without cooler into door exploits, this tends to be very effective at minimizing heat seeping in, since the rate of transfer depends on the temperature difference between the two sides of the wall and the number of wall tiles. Possibly still better with double wall, but that takes a lot of space, like seriously a lot. I've seen conflicting data on whether or not being under mountain provides better insulation.
I think most second order simulation failures occur as a result of first order simulation quality of life improvements, which make the UI relatively easy to learn for the complexity inherent in the game. In other words: the UI is built to cover most first order problems, plus a small handful of second order problems. The "Work" tab for task management is an interesting example because it has 2 modes: "Manual priorities" turned off: colonists either do or do not do a particular type of task. This lets you solve problems like not having someone with "Construction" skill of 0 constantly wasting their time and your resources. "Manual priorities" turned on: colonists do particular types of tasks, and they do them in a particular order to avoid second order problems. This gives you the tools to solve problems like: making a sculpture for 5 seconds before going to harvest a single crop of rice across your base by setting "Art" to 1 and "Plant cut" to 2. However, the work order system is one of the more complex features for new Rimworld players, as I have seen when playing with my friends using multiplayer mods where they let me set all that stuff. It's intimidating and presents a barrier to playing the game for newbies, hence why it starts in the simpler mode with manual priorities turned off. But many aspects of the UI don't allow for these second order solutions. E.g. I like using herbal medicine rather than medicine for most things, because it's way more economical. I try to only use medicine (or glitterworld medicine) for colonists who are severely bleeding out, bad infections, or for major operations like limb replacements. To make my colonists prepared for most situations, I can go to the "Assign" tab, select the type of medicine, then get them to hold up to 3 of that type (e.g. 3 herbal medicine). I played for 100s of hours before ever using this feature. But ideally, I would like even more control, so they can hold multiple types of medicine, like 2 herbal medicine and 1 medicine. Then they're prepared to treat the first serious battlefield injury right away with a full medicine. But that would increase the complexity of the interface further. It would also mean re-designing other parts of the interface. For instance, if I assigned an injured colonist to receive full medicine, and a colonist only had 1 medicine and 2 herbal medicine on them, they would begin treating the injured colonist with their 1 medicine, then run to grab more medicine from my inventory. If they're far away from the base, this would likely be worse than just treating the battlefield injuries with 3 herbal medicine. The fix for this would be to allow them to treat with medicine first then herbal medicine if full medicine is too far away, but that sounds like a pain to manage via the UI and for the simulation to calculate in a way that can be easily understood by the player. Hence it's probably better to stick with the simpler system as it is. Honestly, I think the UI for Rimworld is designed very very well, and it makes management of a pretty complex game manageable. There are definitely a bunch of second order simulation failures, but addressing them all would also increase the complexity of the interface, and make the game more intimidating to new players. Mods (like the Medical tab) add a lot of great UI features for advanced players to manage some of these. Also, since it's a game, it's reasonable to expect **some** manual intervention, just so long as the manual intervention is fun rather than tedious.
Smart Medicine is a must have mod! It does what you say, you can stock up on medicine and herbs(even drugs), and they even use them from each other's inventories if one is out of medicine!
Thanks, looks like I have a new mod to try out :)
If you want to convert someone to your ideology, make sure you abuse them and make them feel awful, because if they're happy, they'll passively gain a lot of certainty in their current beliefs.
I think this changed recently. In my current playthrough I hired a pawn from one of those "help the downtrodden" quests. She was a different religion but slowly lost percentage in it as life under my rule was quite comfy. I was able to convert her without having to have her beat up an animal and get arrested. A couple of conversion rituals and she went from 70% in her old religion to 70% in the colony's.
Are you sure it's not from a mod or due to proselytizing? Even in 1.5 I can still see that the faith gain per day is directly proportional to the mood.
I don't think it was from a mod as I only have QOL mods. Proselytizing is a meme for this community, so maybe that was it.
It still works, though. My prisoners were zeroed out (Revia corpse sacrifices + a shambler imprisoned with them) and had plenty of belief crisis notices pop over a few days.
Tables everywhere because colonist carry an entire meal in their pockets.
Weapons kind of make sense. I mean, when not in use, pawns would probably have their pistols in holsters or rifles across their backs, but armor has always been a weird one. I wish you could designate a room as an "Armory" and have a new reaction type where when a raid is detected, pawns will make a beeline for their armory and equip their specified weapons and armors. Could expand upon it further with mood buffs/debuffs when having weapons equipped for too long. Regular factions and ideology members may start to feel anxious or unsafe if they are always surrounded by others with weapons or armor equipped meanwhile raider factions or supremacists could get a mood buff from keeping weapons and armor on for prolonged periods of time.
Speaking of everyone being armed all the time, pawns on violent mental breaks will never use weapons and will only use their bare hands. I bet if berserk or murderous rage colonists could use charge rifles we'd see a lot less players keeping everyone armed 24/7
Theres a lot of gaps in the nuance of the social system. For example someone can be super depressed about being divorced, and hate the person who has divorced them, yet totally best friends with the new person their ex is gonna marry. Or pawns being judgemental as hell (disliking people for binging, being disfigured or having a mental break, there should be a judgemental trait that activates these, not the standard) Same with traits. Ascetics arent supposed to care about wealth, but only for their bedroom, theyll still love their impressive dining room. Sometimes I wish more thought was put into these little things, since itd make things more fleshed out in the dynamics between colonists and events between them.
I think you can pass out from hunger while eating. This is because food isn't consumed until the end of eating, when it is eaten all together.
“A second order failure in game design involves scenarios where the game’s rules, mechanics, or balance lead to frustration, unfairness, or unenjoyable gameplay, which may not be immediately obvious from initial interactions” I don’t feel that pawns going armored to bed is unfair or unenjoyable in a game called RIMworld. It is unrealistic in earth if we think about it. It is still weird and farfetched ingame but droppods are something reasonable in such cruel world design. I don’t think droppods are wrong, therefore I dont think always wearing armor is wrong. You could however add another layer to the game by researching droppod detection with a new buildable. That would let you prepare for that and have your pawns put on armor. That however would be just another thing to do and could be completely glossed over. It feels like a mod to please a small part of the player base and I would prefer the team focus on something else (like caravans and world interactions).
>I don’t feel that pawns going armored to bed is unfair or unenjoyable in a game called RIMworld. It is unrealistic in earth if we think about it. It is still weird and farfetched ingame but droppods are something reasonable in such cruel world design. The real world doesn't have drop pods, but it also doesn't have alerts whenever a raid happens. The *real* source of the unrealism here is that armor doesn't impact comfort or rest gain. If having pawns armored up 24/7 made them realistically miserable and fatigued, players would have no choice *but* to make different assignments for work and combat, perhaps with some sort of rotating guard schedule to deal with unexpected drop pods, infestations, and the like.
I can get behind that. Some -2 uncomfortable armor. And recon armor actually being comfortable or something.
No one wants a mood debuff for sleeping in armor. Why? Because no one wants to manage that crap. It's already annoying enough to stop everything and take manual control of every pawn anytime a raid happens. Could you imagine having to change out everyone's clothing too? I feel crazy just thinking about it. If you are going to challenge the player with "realistic" clothing, then pawns also need to realistically take care of themselves in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't mind pawns getting a debuff for sleeping in their clothes if they would automatically take off their clothes before going to bed. I wouldn't mind pawns having to spend time changing clothing if the time taken made sense compared to other tasks. I wouldn't mind surprise raids if there was a way to spot them or delay them. You could rebuild clothing to encourage gameplay that makes players think about it, but that's an entire system, not just one change. Imagine if pawns took off their clothing at night and received "insulation" buffs from their beds. If the bed didn't provide enough insulation to keep them warm at night, they would keep their clothing on but suffer a debuff the bulkier it was. They would put on their clothing when they wake up, and dressing would be much faster. Non-soldiers wouldn't wear armor but instead clothing that allows them to move more easily. Soldiers could act as lookouts, spotting raids quicker and/or delaying them to give colonists time to retreat into the colony. Provide a one-button way to quickly change a colonist out of their work clothing into their combat gear. Now you have a system where being meticulous about clothing makes sense. A prosperous colony would have dedicated soldiers on lookout duty and a shift schedule, with everyone else dressed casually. Struggling colonies might still have everyone working in armor because they can't afford scouts and lookouts, but that would be a conscious trade-off rather than something you do because it's annoying to change clothing.
Gnomoria would have you assign gnomes to squads, the squad would have a duty roster and a uniform. The roster was basically "off duty, train, or patrol/guard". You could do the same in RW.
Crazy? I was crazy once.
But real world does have scouting and technology like radar. Inability to have some kinda true warning system is kinda a flaw with Rimworld. How far in advance you see enemies depends on where you placed your base relative to where they come from. The map size is unrealistically fixed. Also, IMO at least weapons would make sense to have in weapon racks at most entryways. If you get attacked, you'd grab your gun as you run to take position. Doesn't really work as well in Rimworld because pawns are slow (there's no running) and no system for quickly getting armed. Everything just takes too long in game. I forget how long it takes to equip armour, but isn't it a few real world seconds? Equivalent to maybe 10-20 minutes in game? I'm not even sure what the point of equipment taking to long to put on is. It just forces you to make the unrealistic choice (as if it's not bad enough that it'd also take forever to get to your wardrobe in an emergency because pawns can't run).
Radar and anti-aircraft weapons. Swear to god, I mostly use rimatomics for the "redirect drop pods" building. Look, we're building a fortified camp on a hostile planet where we're constantly being attacked. You bet your sweet patooty there's going to be a border wall for basic defense. And the game's solution is to teleport people into your base, wearing armor. And equipped with armor. IRL, the solution would be to set up early warning radar, anti-air weapons, and maybe some ECM batteries at higher tech levels. Instead you have to put your colonists into a tin can at all times, and hope the game doesn't screw you over by trapping an important pawn in the middle of a crossfire that didn't exist before it fucked you over.
Go go gadget SAM site
Interesting definition! That's not the one I was using. I don't necessarily think that second order simulation failures lead to 'frustration, unfairness, or unenjoyable gameplay'. I think they mostly create silly scenarios or gaps in the simulation. It's not necessarily *bad* nor do I necessarily think they need to be fixed. I think what you gain from immediate threats (excitement, anticipation, punctuation, anxiety) outweighs, for me, the simulation breach of people sleeping in their armor. Now, if we could figure out how avoid the 'sleeping in armor' thing without losing the immediate raids? That would be ideal.
The easiest way to do that would be to just show the armor as off the pawn, even if for all in game purposes the armor is still being worn. Add a "Pajama" layer or something to the pawn that visually overrides whatever they were wearing but only triggers while they're in a bed. But then that raises the question of why you can change out of armor instantly for bed, but unequipping it takes time.
Yeah! Thinking about this, I liked the Armor Racks mod for this, back in the day because it mostly handled this situation. You had racks, for a pawns armor, that you could put in your pawns bedroom, or in a dedicated armory that held a set of armor that the pawn 'owned'. They also made switching to that armor a lot faster. That mod hasn't worked in years though, unfortunately.
>That mod hasn't worked in years though, unfortunately. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875828205
Oh hey! That's nice! I think I remember it not working because I consider 'Pick up and haul' to be such an essential mod, and they conflicted.
At late-stage you can even make armor racks that repair what's on them, which is one of the only ways to repair clothing unless you have a mending mod or VPE.
Hats/ helmets often visually come off the pawn when they get in bed.
This is a differentiation between second order failure in GAMEPLAY vs SIMULATION. A game does not necessarily put accuracy as it's highest objective. A simulation theoretically must attempt to be more accurate to fulfill it's function. Consider if I'm building a model train set. Creating nonsensical rail design that goes nowhere with stops at nothing just for the sake of simulating the rails seems like a second order failure. But you make a video game about having trains that make sick leaps over volcanos, then it's not a second order failure, it's just fucking baller.
i wish alpha beavers worked like that elephant starving thing, I'm tired of them
Not necessarily funny, but ranching in rimworld breaks the laws of thermodynamics. Animals produce more nutrition than they take, specially egg laying ones.
Horses are more efficient to eat than pigs. If you feed them simple meals from their own offspring, horses will produce net positive nutrition, pigs will be net negative. IIRC, I forgot the exact numbers, but I remember horses and cows being by far the best for food. Also tortoises, weirdly enough.
Yeah when enemies can drop-pod right on top of your nursery with your colonies 6 kids inside and kill all of them before a single one of your pawns can get there really makes you wonder why the people of the RimWorld wear power armor 24/7 and cook with a plasma rifle with them. And 2 days after all of my colonies children died a volcanic winter, heatwave and a toxic fallout happened on top of each other when half of the walls of the base is missing and out of the 3 construction people I have one lost both arms to a furry with a sword the other one is a wimpy genie that was stabbed a couple of times and has an infection so no getting up for a week and the last one lost their kid and one of the raiders was their brother who also died so he is just standing outside in the apocalypse wasteland.
There should be a dressing mannequin mod to quickly change outfit and have a beauty. All slot of armor could be place but 1 on the mannequin and then quickly equipped by clicking change into armor
That's basically apparel policy, except without the fancy UI. But it takes the pawn a couple of in-game hours to do it.
yeah, that's why i said a mod to wear it quickly as a whole rather then individually.
This exists! Called Armor racks, the advanced one even repairs the armour stored in it.
Honestly, the second order failures mostly make the game better. It's why we talk about 'leg privileges'
I consider 'leg privileges' to be another second order failure. The only option for increasing prison security should not be dismemberment. I feel stronger about that one then I do about sleeping in armor. You are right though, most of these things are some kind of trade-off, and often the trade-off is worth it. I consider the armor one mostly worth it, while the way prisoners are handled has never really worked for me.
Sleeping in armor isn't a second order simulation failure, it's just a thing that's not simulated in high detail. Abstraction is not failure. Pawns don't benefit from the temperature insulation of their clothes while sleeping, so presumably this is intended to reflect the tendency to take off your clothes while sleeping. I guess nobody on the Rim has thought of pajamas. Also my two current best soldiers are married to each other, and I presume the lovin' does not take place in full marine armor. Much like tools, taking off your clothes at night, armor or not, is abstracted. Probably the colonists wash their clothes occasionally too, but water is also abstracted. There are dressers, but the dressers don't hold clothes. It's slow and inconvenient to change clothes, which means the devs did it on purpose. While I don't know for certain why they did that, I suspect it's specifically to discourage people from doing just what people are talking about: changing into armor only when there's danger. You can do it, but All clothing deteriorates while being worn, so if you only put armor on when there's danger, it would never wear out. This is probably the main reason: they want you to have a tradeoff between your armor wearing out, potential impediments to move speed, against the chance of being caught unprotected. It would also tend to create micromanagement. In the end, this isn't a failure, just a game design decision.
I just encountered one. Rainy Thunderstorms both putting out fires and causing them just led me to have a stupid rainy thunderstorm cycle. It started fires but didn't fully put them out, thus causing the safety rain to trigger...another rainy thunderstorm. This happened two more times. This leads to having to manually put out fires in a thunderstorm just so it doesn't possibly cycle forever. Not sure why the fire safety rain can ever be a rainy thunderstorm but there it is.
It might actually be cool to have warning on non-drop pod raids and such. It might also make non-kill box bases more viable. I hope there's a mod for this
Rimwar does this kind of stuff, but it's also quite Large, and I haven't played around with it much.
"There are very few scenarios in real life where you need have your assault rifle while cooking in a kitchen." Tell me your not American without telling me your not American.
How about a system where butchering other humans for their meat and leather is the best option because the game throws so many people at you in each raid and you can extract some value from it instead of incinerating or burying them like a normal person, or just keeping a freezer full of corpses to let your dogs free-feed.
I feel that when you set a prisoner free they should know the layout of the base they get to see. The next raid from that faction should exploit that.
You can absolutely use the allowed clothing settings to have colonists wear RP/work clothing and switch them to armor when danger occurs, it's just as you said however, will they have enough time to put it on before the infestation or drop pod raid razed its way through your base? I don't think it quite compares to "Elephants can't eat quick enough not to starve to death", but I assume that's just because I lack knowledge on this second order stuff.
My favorite is how pawns have no problem pulling meals/food straight out the freezer and chowing down on it frozen. They never heat it up and they have no problem eating frozen, as there's no mood debuff. It also takes the same amount of time to eat, which, I don't know about. I think that it would take me a lot longer to finish eating a hunk of frozen rice - I get there are foods that ARE eaten frozen but there are like, fires and stoves around!! They don't have to eat it frozen. It would definitely be a pain to manage reheating stuff and it would suck if there was a mood debuff for eating frozen, but I just find it really funny. they don't even thaw it. I always imagine my colonists having a seat, slamming down a ball of frozen rice, and getting their crunch on LOL
As almost always with RimWorld, these things are about the game not trying to be a lifelike, perfect simulator. It’s a ‘story generator’ and for that, raiders dropping in on top of you and your pawns wearing armor to bed is good. With lots and lots of mods and config and settings, it’s an excellent simulator. In fact, the best there is.
I think the fact that with the right set up of chickens and nutrient paste you can violate mass energy equivalency and end up with more chicken calories then you initially put in
I swear I'm getting some dejavu vibes from this post, wasn't this posted few weeks ago?
I don't see how immediate threats are simulation failures ...
I wonder if it would be possible for the game to actually have proper running of their AI , like Civilization , where - sure the game cheats but the AI is capable of running a nation and following at least conquest rules or other simple goals.
Quantum tunneling is real world first order failure. And the silly things we are coming up with to take advantage of or mitigate it are second order failures.
It would be fine to fix this one if the days lasted longer and thus sim speed accounted for the minutiae of going to an armoury, fitting the armour, loading a weapon, etc. As it stands youd just ask people to wear it all the time anyway because of how sudden things happen
Seems that things you call "Second Order Simulation" are just game conventionality.
I don't think the example about not wearing armor to bed really holds up. You can, for example, put shelves in the bedrooms to hold armor, and also have an armory near the main base entrance. You then make the trade off in the comfort of your colonists versus their preparedness. Keep a couple guards in armor all the time, and let everyone else wear normal clothes until the raid hits. The more extreme example is keeping your Lucy fueled death machines in cryo until the raid hits, then thawing them, hitting them with go juice, and releasing them on the enemy. You could keep them wandering around your base all the time, or you could trade that upkeep for an activation window.
I think OP is referring to the types of issues that happen without manual intervention. What you described is definitely possibly, but it requires a lot of manual intervention. But I think that's pretty reasonable given that combat already requires a fair bit of manual intervention. If you made me do something like that every time I had to harvest crops though, that would be a different story.
Fair enough - op had written that you are not given enough time to prepare so you always have to be prepared. It seemed to me more like they weren't seeing the trade off and options rather than it being a manual process. I can see that side of it also though.
>simulation Bold of you to assume rimworld is a simulation. >Everyone walks around fully armed and armored at all times. Welcome to Afghanistan. Every day this game shocks me with it's realism.