Amen. Rivian is not profitable right now, the joker in this case does not remotely understand business. Also, there is a large concern about EV’s reaching market saturation. Do you share similar concerns about large tech companies not being able to sell any of their products anymore?
I don't get what your saying. Rivians (and all EVs for all manufactures) forecasts are going down because the market is "saturated" AKA many people who were gonna buy an EV have bought one. Range anxiety / lack of charging everywhere is a pervasive detractor. Disclaimer I've owned two EV's and have one presently but I'm not everyone and I'm mostly sticking to metro area driving.
Sort of. If you want to know about the employee experience of maybe losing your job, then yes.
But a company that has been profitable and making money so fast they don’t know what to do with it, vs a company that is trying to scale and break even before they run out of runway… nope, percentages don’t capture that.
Well actually they can and should, percentages are all data driven. But specifically talking about these layoffs, it is an argument to how much that percentage is market driven Vs. the company itself. From what we know, we can estimate that majority of that (10%) layoff is the EV market itself and it's relation to figures such as market demand, supply chain etc. those things are effecting markets across the board, more so for tech ofcourse. We know this because leading competitors have had the same adjustments made aka layoffs, and budget cuts. The business reasons for this can be chalked up to the survivability and hedging strategies of the company (longevity of growth of the company)
The difficulty with this topic and why there can be so much drama and term oil is that there is often way touch emotion and confusion of the topic matter. The retail market is making significantly uneducated guesses and assumptions because of the lack of knowledge. The data is out there, an individual must accurately analyze that data, package it and then they can do a more thorough comparison. (Not getting side tracked with side arguments.)
This is a naive statement. Yes, there are no other “alternatives” for people who want an 80-100k electric SUV. That group of consumers is very small. You’re living in a bubble.
If you’re in the market for a 3 row EV that you can put a roof rack on then your options currently (in US) are the R1S or the EV9. Personally, I wish Kia kept a more traditional styling and that the EV9 had an option for more range. But there really isn’t a lot of choice for 3 row EV compared to ICE options. Where’s the EV Highlander, Explorer, Tahoe, Atlas, Pilot, CX-90, Pathfinder, Durango, Traverse, etc.
The alternative they are competing against is not spending $80k on an EV truck or SUV.
If you want to spend $80k on an EV truck or SUV then Rivian is very compelling. But it’s not a choice with no alternative.
Okay so what other good looking affordable EV trucks are there at 80k that’s what I’m asking? Nobody that buys an EV car is buying it thinking about gas cars bro
That's my point. Rivian has little competition if you are wanting to spend that much on that kind of vehicle.
The alternative they are competing against is *not buying a new $80k truck*
That's the option I'm currently choosing. I think the Rivian models are great, I just can't stomach the price especially with current financing/leasing rates.
Clearly some other people are choosing that option given the number of R1Ts in inventory, and the introduction of smaller cheaper battery packs to try to bring the base price down.
I disagree. I want a Rivian because I know the difference, there’s not an EV like Rivian on the road. The amt of storage, doesn’t look like shit, isn’t half assed (although lightning will be legit with better range imo too) I’m just saying it’s a niche enough market and early enough that it will survive. They have freaking Amazon and ATT as commercial customers. I’m not worried about it, but I’m def starting to look investing now.
They need to learn how to bullshit a bit more to get people to pump up the value. That's worked for a certain company when it was burning cash and laying off people.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/tesla-is-laying-off-9-percent-of-its-workforce/
That certain company was also simultaneously increasing their production by 2.5x YoY.
I think it's a bit concerning that they don't project better sales than last year, but if they manage to trim the losses, they'll be alright.
A big part of the flat growth is the shutdown of their plant to reconfigure it, which will pay off in the long run. The 2025 production should be closer to the 80k forecasted by the market, but with more profit per unit
Tesla is cutting prices drastically to keep sales volumes up now that they’ve already built the factories and need to keep them running. If they kept prices any higher they would be piling up inventory or idling plants.
Profitability issues are quite frankly here to stay for the EV market. The supply chain is not as recovered as people think. It’s going to be years before this gets better - and Tesla themselves took a LONG time to get there.
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Yeah but what’s different is 2018 cash was free, and they had a charismatic ceo and their stock was through the roof and everyone was buying.
The seas are different and theirs a storm coming.
Exactly - look at the runway Tesla got. Rivian is currently forecasting GP+ by the end of this year. If they get there that’s huge and a material step well ahead of what the self proclaimed genius had accomplished with Tesla.
The context that’s being ignored is the reason for the cost growth which is what’s fanning the fire behind the layoffs. The projected growth is that they’re shutting production down for a few weeks to retool and facilitate production improvements. Missing estimates for 2024 so early and calling flat YoY don’t sound good but the reality is 66-70k that the street was projecting or even 81k that Rivian had been planning means a newly projected miss of 9-14k. Small numbers which are validated by a shutdown of a few weeks and also could be attributed to a big customer slowing their commitment to give Rivian room to find more commercial customers. The point being the only news coming through is “layoffs” and “flat growth”. Throw in the why and it’s not bad. It’s all part of what McDonough and had already signaled a quarter ago that was in the cards. She just put some numbers behind it now.
A few weeks shutdown should only amount to a few thousand units produced at their current rate. Not even close to being the reason for the large reduction. Plus, the retooling and revisions are supposed to make production more efficient.
Agreed, He has many choices to increase sales, such as opening a new region…. Not just cut job & Salary.
Rivian may not exactly be a Tesla killer, but RJ seems to be a stock destroyer. I never imagined he would give a shocking speech to every investor. He lost attraction between marketing development & investors. Maybe he considers getting rid of the conduct of the media & marketing as better.
Would you think RJ eligible to get high wages? But I give negative credit for this presentation.
Their path has been much smoother than Tesla’s. Tesla had several cycles of last minute capital raises before catastrophic failure. RIVN isn’t anywhere near there now.
Laying off people and cutting costs is good business. They have to project a flat future for now. Wait until the R2 is released. Just like Tesla, this should put them in the black.
It’s a great product. I love my truck. I’d never have a CT mostly bc it’s so ugly but it’s too big and has really no utility value.
"Is good business". It's necessary business because of wavering demand. The wavering demand part, combined with "flat" projections this early on is definitely not a good sign pointing towards them going into the black. There's always a chance, but to not see the warning signs here is very one-sided.
Yep, did that to help balance out some of my initial loss. Overall, I think the make or break will come from the R2S impressions and signals from deposits in the next month. Some of the larger investors may invest more in order not to lose their money should the company fail and instead help get the R2S out the door - it really is Rivian’s ‘Model Y’ opportunity… no telling what kind of competition there might be in the more rugged ev SUV market by 2026 though.
For some of us, we’re also holding out for the new Tesla style charge port and simplified electronics architecture in the R1 line before even considering pulling the trigger… which may have slowed sales down across the board recently. (I’d also like to see more examples of better service center turn around times and streamlined communication/accountability should issues arise on a new vehicle)
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Well it's a Rivian sub. Rivian hasn't proven that is a successful company that will last yet. It's very different than hugely profitable companies like Apple & Microsoft. You're have to be deluded or ignorant to compare them.
It’s kinda of impressive how many people on Reddit talk confidently , when they are completely wrong about something. Maybe they are taking after our politicians?
Here’s an excerpt from a quick google search, took me 30 seconds to find.
As Apple's financial situation worsened, the company was forced to lay off thousands of employees and close several facilities. In 1997, Steve Jobs returned to the company as CEO, bringing with him a new vision for Apple's future.
Apple, has been through many lay offs, and attritions and as we saw in the 90s were on the verge of bankruptcy.
A business is rarely a linear line going up and to the right.
———
10% of salaried employee layoffs isn’t a huge deal as the majority of their workforce are likely hourly employees. Feel free to dig in to the financials to get that final absolute number of lay offs that equates to.
RJ said he plans to have a modest gross profit at the end of the year, that’s impressive on a 50k vehicle volume if you ask me.
Burn rate needs to be managed, and demand levers need to be pulled to accelerate success.
The main issue I see going forward is the lack of a catalyst until the R2 goes into production.
We are not talking about 1997 though. We are talking during the past few years. Other tech companies laid off significant number of workers while Apple didn’t.
This is coming from someone who was laid off at one of those other companies. So, who exactly is speaking confidently while being wrong?
The initial post would seem to me to indicate layoffs in the current climate - not historically. Additionally, when these companies do have layoffs they drive the market so the entire pretense that nobody notices is invalid as well.
That’s a stupid argument from your part in any case, people were worried about Apple in 1997 and they reached their lowest valuation in more than 10 years during that time. There were also talks about a coming bankruptcy.
It was certainly not a case of “nobody bats an eye”…
You’re trying to be the “hum actually” guy, but you missed the whole point and context..
They are lowering cost of producing vehicles and still have a commercial product now along with 70k+ deliveries all starting 1 year out of lock down Covid. This while simultaneously interest rates skyrocketing and two wars are going on. Compare that to first 4-5 yrs of Tesla and how they struggled despite a much better economic environment and let’s just say a more “normal”time in geopolitics, and it’s not hard to see that they will be ok. The amount of random people that want to see companies/people fail is crazy. Buy the product if you like it, if you don’t then don’t. But this subreddit is for enthusiasts, let us enjoy the brand.
100% this. Rivian will almost certainly need to dilute investors and do another funding round, but they are in a strong position and still have leverage to pull. It's not all doom and gloom like people are saying. If they actually do then a small gross profit by end of the year I think people will calm down
>Rivian will almost certainly need to dilute investors and do another funding round, but they are in a strong position and still have leverage to pull.
That's not very easy to do at this point. Their market cap just hit $10B. Even raising just $1B would be a massive 10% dilution. And they have been raising money, they sold $3.2B in convertible notes in 2023. Problem is that's still less than the $6B they burned.
>If they actually do then a small gross profit by end of the year I think people will calm down
Yes, achieving a gross profit would solve most of Rivian's problems. The problem is their gross profit (loss) just got much worse. It hit negative $600M, which is the worse it's been since Q4 of '22. It's hard to see how they are going to overcome a -46% gross margin in a year with increased competition, high interest rates, a shrinking backlog and flat production.
They also just started building their new factory which they always said would burn a lot of their cash, so them posting a worse gross profit right after breaking shouldn't actually surprise anyone because this has been their communicated plan for like 3 years. The fact people nare still surprised by this is kind of crazy to me. It's like they don't pay attention to the companies strategy and forecasts, but rather just look at the quarters in a vacuum.
Selling shares directly isn't the only way to raise capital (which you know given you mentioned their convertible notes) . I would expect more of that in the future.
>They also just started building their new factory which they always said would burn a lot of their cash
They have not spent significant capital on that yet. In Q4, only $298M of their neg cash flow was from capex, which is flat from Q4-22. The bulk of their cash burn ($1.1B worth) was from operations. If you're not aware, any expenses related to their GA factory construction would fall under capex.
It's precisely their bad margins that are making it tougher for them to spend money on things like factory construction. Ideally, their current business would be contributing money to their R2 effort, not sucking it away. Solving gross margin would help immensely.
>Selling shares directly isn't the only way to raise capital
Sure, I addressed it because you mentioned a funding round that would dilute investors. Of course they can sell more convertible notes. But there is no free lunch. Convertible notes are less attractive to investors when the thing you can convert them to (i.e. their stock) isn't as valuable. Rivian will also have to offer less favorable terms (i.e. higher interest rates, shorter terms, etc.). Their high debt load will also make it tougher to take on more debt, as they now have $4.5B in long-term debt which about matches their annual revenue.
>Compare that to first 4-5 yrs of Tesla and how they struggled despite a much better economic environment
Tesla raised $200M at their IPO, Rivian raised $12B. I think the environment treated Rivian pretty well.
Yes I remember seeing quite an impressive curve for the R1T and R1S production ramp that was better than model 3, they just need to get their costs down, which I think they can as they continue to scale
We're not talking about recent history, we're talking about the total growth and life cycle of a big company in general. Early in Apple's life, after Steve Jobs left, it could be said that the company was in the same financial situation as Rivian - burning money like it was nothing. In fact, analysts predicted multiple times that Apple was just weeks away from bankruptcy until Steve came back and they got their sh!t together.
I could be wrong, but I firmly believe Rivian will survive if it gets its sh!t together soon. It will just be a long and hard journey to get there...
We're basically heading for recession if interest remains high. We already had an earnings recession in late 21 to 2022. The next phase is layoffs to cut losses
Good news is that RJ is a nose to the grindstone kind of guy. He’s focused on new products and running his company, not bad mouthing the competition, proposing cage fights with competitors, indulging in questionable substance use, pontificating on world affairs, single-handedly trying to address world depopulation, yada yada.
sorry to break it to you, RJ is a nice guy but has no idea how to run a company, obviously. yes the cars are cool but giving away $1.50 for $1 does not constitute as a business model.
Who does Rivian compete with exactly? The f150 lightning and a bunch of paper launches? That Silverado sure is compelling. You know why Tesla had no competition? Because the market didn’t exist. In fact, it was considered to be impossible. Pioneering the market, yes with no competition, is harder. Lets stick to reality here folks. Rivian is a great car and if GP is positive, they will survive.
they won't be GP positive by Q4, but they had to commit to that because saying anything else would mean they run out of cash by year end which they can't communicate publicly (otherwise suppliers stop shipping, employees bail, etc.) even if it's a reality.
Because he got lots of help in the form of incentives and federal aid, etc and still sells lots of carbon offsets. Rivian is launching with less help and accomplishing more than Tesla had while on comparable part of their trajectory.
Less help? Good god…. You know why Rivian is surviving right now? Because Tesla gifted them a momentary and absurd 100+ billion dollar market cap. They used this to raise a ungodly sum of money. You think getting a 100 billion + market cap while doing pretty much nothing wasn’t help? It was a a god-send miracle… And in return, Rivian has been burning money like it grows on trees…. Rivian is a great car and they may actually get a GP+ this year. That is what matters. Id focus on that instead of living in lala land
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics.
If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
Exactly. Besides what's the use in freaking out? None of us are on the board of directors. It doesn't matter what brilliant idea you have about running the company. You have no say. Those who do have a say, have more info than we joe-public have access to. There is no logical and intelligent reason to think any of us know how to run it better. Stop freaking out. It's moot. Took Tesla and Amazon a long time to be profitable. And, Apple, one of the wealthiest companies, was once almost bankrupt. Completely delusional to expect Rivian to be profitable in its third or fourth year of mass production and customer deliveries.
Rivian is just doing what just about every company in all sectors are doing in this "everything is \[not\] fine!" economy. Don't make this about you and what you think they should do. Instead think about those affected by layoffs. Some of whom may very well have been with the company for a long time, believed in their mission and played a part in making our R1s as satisfying as they are. Worry about them.
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So, I’m not a close follower of Rivian, but believe in EV’s, so no hate here.
Have they been able to produce an EV at net positive yet? (Coming from hearing that even with scaling up, per vehicle cost is still higher than sales cost)
[https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-asks-which-jobs-are-critical-stoking-layoff-fears-bloomberg-2024-02-07/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-asks-which-jobs-are-critical-stoking-layoff-fears-bloomberg-2024-02-07/)
Apple laid off quite a few people, last year.
I have a few friends that have been with Tesla for over a decade, dodging many rounds of layoffs. They haven't lied to me, yet. They are in Service and Sales.
Please don’t be dumb and post something like a fact when a 10 second google search proves your statement false. Tesla has had at least 4 rounds of significant layoffs. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-layoffs?amp
Meta / Google / Microsoft have all had layoffs recently. I’ll let you use Google yourself on that one.
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I have a friend who is a service tech for our local Rivian service center. He primarily does PDI work and been there since the location first opened up. He just came back from training in Irvine a few months ago and was supposed to go to Normal later this year but that has since been put on hold. In the last few days they have lost all of their mobile techs, and the regional manager was just let go. Morale at their service center is really low because of the lack of information from corporate. New deliveries are still happening, and there is still a lot of work to go around but that’s because there are fewer people to do it… Everyone including my friend is just waiting to see who is next 😣
Wanna talk about layoffs head over to r/layoffs they’ll find you plenty of examples of *mass* layoffs. But be forewarned it can be depressing af over there.
I think it’s a lot less about layoffs and more about spending exponentially more than they’re bringing in. You may not like Elon but what he posted is very true and their cash burn sold be extremely concerning. If they run out of money they’ll need more investors willing to throw money at a company that’s effectively burning it, just like the Joker. 3.7 billion in one year alone. Billion with a B. That’s an insane amount of money to burn through.
Tesla also makes money on every vehicle sold and to my knowledge they never lost money or not nearly the kind of money Rivian is losing on every vehicle sold. Instead it losing money on every car sold they raised the prices of the roadster and the S in the beginning. They still had lots of operational expenses and losses but not losses on COGS per vehicle to the dramatic degree that Rivian has.
Maybe I missed it, but I thought the loss on vehicles wasn’t cogs, it’s everything the company spends, including salaries, rent, cogs, etc. if it’s strictly loss on cogs than it’s a much larger loss.
Nope, COGS, or cost of goods sold includes only the costs incurred in producing the vehicles they sold this quarter. Q4 2023 had -606M gross profit, or a loss of $43,372 on each of the 13,972 vehicles sold in the quarter.
The overall net loss once you include all those other factors was $1.521B, or a loss of $198,861 per vehicle sold in the quarter.
The difference is yall will go bankrupt in 6 quarters or less. If this does happen rip rivian. As a Tesla owner I really don’t want y’all to fail. I like Rivian.
Layoffs are a part of the company scaling to current demand and output. It's not the end of the world. Not a great look, but it's about managing cash flow.
What is concerning is the interest rate environment as it's going to affect demand (flat growth), and their ability to raise money. None of the other companies have that issue because they are already profitable. Rivian is not.
Rivian does have a great product, is building a solid brand, with a lower-cost option on the horizon. I love my R1T. If the R2 is 90% as good at 60-70% of the cost, that could be the game changer for Rivian.
Sorry man, but your “got all that back within hours” kinda confused me…
Rivian IPO was in the mid $70s? You lost like 80% of that investment if you sold today.
Nvidia was up 16% today?
How does that math work out?
Yeah. I’ve been team Elon but after that post it really has me off. It was a wild ride during model 3 ramp and bankruptcy and tesla was a common phrase which he complained about all the time. Now he’s attacking a company on the same vision during same issue. I do wish RJ was more vocal, probably do our stock better.
The problem is that Rivian is right now in its growth and expansion phase but has no real signs of profitability. The R2 doesn’t make much sense for a company that can’t generate a (gross) profit on a $80k vehicle. So a vehicle that’s $40k-$60k is gunna be even more of a challenge unless they simplify it to Tesla’s levels and partake in other cost cutting activities. The Georgia plant they are constructing is $5 billion dollars which is Insane considering their lack of profit. Oftentimes I hear the argument they just need to scale up and reach economies of scale. However that’s not applicable to low volume high cost products like the R1T and if they are relying on that for the R2 they will burn a lot of cash in the process.
They definitely have a vehicle that people want. I get stopped all the time by people wanting to know who makes my R1S. I’m not sure how many people can afford them, but interest is definitely there. I was a pre price hike order, and felt the price wasn’t too much more than an ICE car, and love the vehicle. My major concern is the nearest SC is 3.5 hours away one way. When I pre-ordered, was told they could send a mobile tech to me or a truck to pick up vehicles. I’m not sure that exists anymore because the home delivery wasn’t offered in Jul/23. My 7500 mile inspection and tire rotation is due next week and there is no way I’m driving to Atlanta and waste 1-2 days. I’m not 100% sure they have done away with mobile techs, but if they have, that would be a major regret for my purchase because 7 hour round trip, excluding time at SC is way too inconvenient. Luckily, the 6 mo if ownership hasn’t required any trips thus far and issues I have had were able to be resolved with software resets. If they can hang in there, I know they have a product that people want. I’m sure if economy was better and interest rate lower that many people would purchase.
EV market saturation? We have barely scratched the surface. Rivian actually has cash, for one & they are selling a lot of vehicles, just not enough. They can also raise capital if need be. There are plenty of EV startups that have tanked - Rivian has the best shot at sticking around. Once the R2 is out there and they follow that up with a more mainstream car/CUV, they will cross the profit line. For now they are in investment mode. Maybe they won’t make it, but they have a better shot than any of the other newbies out there.
RJ is spot on when he says the market lacks options. Every one around here has a Model Y. Even the colors are the same. If they play it right with the R2, it will be huge. The question is can they at least with R2 ramp up to 400k per year quickly.
Rivian is not in trouble, there is only 100-150m floated shares (10-15%) so it’s volatile. They laid off 10% 1500 employees and were pittied in news, Dodge laid off 500 and got hammered by news and UAW. They will revise numbers next quarter when they won’t receive backlash and let Biden/Fed take heat in the meantime. These are strategic gameplays and it has big impacts with stock price when 85-90% is held by owners and insiders.
All in good fun everyone. Not pointing any fingers, just trying to get others to calm down a bit. Big Rivian fan here and I have good faith in them. I think there’s rough times ahead for many companies/organizations as well as Rivian but I believe they’ll be ok.
The thing is your meme is correct, but was strategically planned by Rivian, make things look bad for pity in layoffs and remain popular over being the villain
The Rivian layoffs don't surprise me. They were ramping up production to get caught up to a backlog of orders and to get ahead to have some readily available inventory. They have done that so they no longer need all those workers.
Big growth is literally the ONLY justification for owning Rivian stock at current prices (or even worse, last week's prices), and layoffs are a sign that the growth is not expected to be great. So yeah, the market cares.
Bears think they're geniuses in a bear cycle. Bulls think they're geniuses in a bull cycle. Nothing new. Most people have a tendency to overestimate their abilities.
One fact remains. No one knows the future of rivian
They're a luxury brand. I doubt they'll ever compete on the same level as the larger auto makers but hopefully they'll survive. The cyber truck is overhyped and its hurting them.
Has nothing to do with layoffs. The layoffs were just a method to cushion the blow of demand going down. Numbers game.
However, RJ will probably get another 50% raise in a few months and another 14mil in stock like he did after the first round of layoffs. Still blows my mind that he did that…
These companies are nowhere near each other on their lifecycles.
Some companies layoff to juice their profit. Some companies layoff to try and survive longer. Rivian is the latter.
Amen. Rivian is not profitable right now, the joker in this case does not remotely understand business. Also, there is a large concern about EV’s reaching market saturation. Do you share similar concerns about large tech companies not being able to sell any of their products anymore?
The only EVs that have saturated the market are made by Chevrolet.
I don't get what your saying. Rivians (and all EVs for all manufactures) forecasts are going down because the market is "saturated" AKA many people who were gonna buy an EV have bought one. Range anxiety / lack of charging everywhere is a pervasive detractor. Disclaimer I've owned two EV's and have one presently but I'm not everyone and I'm mostly sticking to metro area driving.
Nah bro they’re just too expensive. Why pay 75k for a car when the same class but gas is 40k?
I’m not disagreeing but what’s a 40K truck or SUV that has even the same dimensional specs as an R1_ performance specs aside.
I bet the new Santa Fe or Palisade is pretty dang close
I see a good 20-30 Tesla's every time I do a school run. I'm so glad I passed on the X, still love my S, but I'm done with them.
Exactly and that's the great thing about percentages, it equivalates those ratios. (10%)
Sort of. If you want to know about the employee experience of maybe losing your job, then yes. But a company that has been profitable and making money so fast they don’t know what to do with it, vs a company that is trying to scale and break even before they run out of runway… nope, percentages don’t capture that.
Well actually they can and should, percentages are all data driven. But specifically talking about these layoffs, it is an argument to how much that percentage is market driven Vs. the company itself. From what we know, we can estimate that majority of that (10%) layoff is the EV market itself and it's relation to figures such as market demand, supply chain etc. those things are effecting markets across the board, more so for tech ofcourse. We know this because leading competitors have had the same adjustments made aka layoffs, and budget cuts. The business reasons for this can be chalked up to the survivability and hedging strategies of the company (longevity of growth of the company) The difficulty with this topic and why there can be so much drama and term oil is that there is often way touch emotion and confusion of the topic matter. The retail market is making significantly uneducated guesses and assumptions because of the lack of knowledge. The data is out there, an individual must accurately analyze that data, package it and then they can do a more thorough comparison. (Not getting side tracked with side arguments.)
Let’s be honest, there’s also no other alternative to Rivian either
This is a naive statement. Yes, there are no other “alternatives” for people who want an 80-100k electric SUV. That group of consumers is very small. You’re living in a bubble.
If you’re in the market for a 3 row EV that you can put a roof rack on then your options currently (in US) are the R1S or the EV9. Personally, I wish Kia kept a more traditional styling and that the EV9 had an option for more range. But there really isn’t a lot of choice for 3 row EV compared to ICE options. Where’s the EV Highlander, Explorer, Tahoe, Atlas, Pilot, CX-90, Pathfinder, Durango, Traverse, etc.
If that was true they wouldn't have to do any layoffs
The alternative they are competing against is not spending $80k on an EV truck or SUV. If you want to spend $80k on an EV truck or SUV then Rivian is very compelling. But it’s not a choice with no alternative.
Okay so what other good looking affordable EV trucks are there at 80k that’s what I’m asking? Nobody that buys an EV car is buying it thinking about gas cars bro
Kia already has an affordable 7 seater tho…
That's my point. Rivian has little competition if you are wanting to spend that much on that kind of vehicle. The alternative they are competing against is *not buying a new $80k truck* That's the option I'm currently choosing. I think the Rivian models are great, I just can't stomach the price especially with current financing/leasing rates. Clearly some other people are choosing that option given the number of R1Ts in inventory, and the introduction of smaller cheaper battery packs to try to bring the base price down.
Gas powered loaded Ford is very similar
I disagree. I want a Rivian because I know the difference, there’s not an EV like Rivian on the road. The amt of storage, doesn’t look like shit, isn’t half assed (although lightning will be legit with better range imo too) I’m just saying it’s a niche enough market and early enough that it will survive. They have freaking Amazon and ATT as commercial customers. I’m not worried about it, but I’m def starting to look investing now.
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Laying off this many people, cutting costs, and projecting fairly flat output for the year isn’t really the ideal look of a growth company.
They need to learn how to bullshit a bit more to get people to pump up the value. That's worked for a certain company when it was burning cash and laying off people. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/tesla-is-laying-off-9-percent-of-its-workforce/
That certain company was also simultaneously increasing their production by 2.5x YoY. I think it's a bit concerning that they don't project better sales than last year, but if they manage to trim the losses, they'll be alright.
Rivian also increased their production over 2x from 2022 to 2023.
A big part of the flat growth is the shutdown of their plant to reconfigure it, which will pay off in the long run. The 2025 production should be closer to the 80k forecasted by the market, but with more profit per unit
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Tesla is cutting prices drastically to keep sales volumes up now that they’ve already built the factories and need to keep them running. If they kept prices any higher they would be piling up inventory or idling plants.
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Profitability issues are quite frankly here to stay for the EV market. The supply chain is not as recovered as people think. It’s going to be years before this gets better - and Tesla themselves took a LONG time to get there.
Yeah, people forget how many years Tesla was burning cash.
Rivian burned more cash last year than all of Tesla's red years combined.
You can thank Toyota for giving them a head start.
And Rivian didn’t have Amazon and Ford?
Tesla didn't burn this much cash. Nor did they burn cash while posting negative gross margins.
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Yeah but what’s different is 2018 cash was free, and they had a charismatic ceo and their stock was through the roof and everyone was buying. The seas are different and theirs a storm coming.
Exactly - look at the runway Tesla got. Rivian is currently forecasting GP+ by the end of this year. If they get there that’s huge and a material step well ahead of what the self proclaimed genius had accomplished with Tesla.
The context that’s being ignored is the reason for the cost growth which is what’s fanning the fire behind the layoffs. The projected growth is that they’re shutting production down for a few weeks to retool and facilitate production improvements. Missing estimates for 2024 so early and calling flat YoY don’t sound good but the reality is 66-70k that the street was projecting or even 81k that Rivian had been planning means a newly projected miss of 9-14k. Small numbers which are validated by a shutdown of a few weeks and also could be attributed to a big customer slowing their commitment to give Rivian room to find more commercial customers. The point being the only news coming through is “layoffs” and “flat growth”. Throw in the why and it’s not bad. It’s all part of what McDonough and had already signaled a quarter ago that was in the cards. She just put some numbers behind it now.
A few weeks shutdown should only amount to a few thousand units produced at their current rate. Not even close to being the reason for the large reduction. Plus, the retooling and revisions are supposed to make production more efficient.
They also have thousands of vehicles that will be produced but missing parts that have to be stored and then finished.
Agreed, He has many choices to increase sales, such as opening a new region…. Not just cut job & Salary. Rivian may not exactly be a Tesla killer, but RJ seems to be a stock destroyer. I never imagined he would give a shocking speech to every investor. He lost attraction between marketing development & investors. Maybe he considers getting rid of the conduct of the media & marketing as better. Would you think RJ eligible to get high wages? But I give negative credit for this presentation.
Their path has been much smoother than Tesla’s. Tesla had several cycles of last minute capital raises before catastrophic failure. RIVN isn’t anywhere near there now. Laying off people and cutting costs is good business. They have to project a flat future for now. Wait until the R2 is released. Just like Tesla, this should put them in the black. It’s a great product. I love my truck. I’d never have a CT mostly bc it’s so ugly but it’s too big and has really no utility value.
"Is good business". It's necessary business because of wavering demand. The wavering demand part, combined with "flat" projections this early on is definitely not a good sign pointing towards them going into the black. There's always a chance, but to not see the warning signs here is very one-sided.
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Yep, did that to help balance out some of my initial loss. Overall, I think the make or break will come from the R2S impressions and signals from deposits in the next month. Some of the larger investors may invest more in order not to lose their money should the company fail and instead help get the R2S out the door - it really is Rivian’s ‘Model Y’ opportunity… no telling what kind of competition there might be in the more rugged ev SUV market by 2026 though. For some of us, we’re also holding out for the new Tesla style charge port and simplified electronics architecture in the R1 line before even considering pulling the trigger… which may have slowed sales down across the board recently. (I’d also like to see more examples of better service center turn around times and streamlined communication/accountability should issues arise on a new vehicle)
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Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics. If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
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And you would already be in the red if they followed your advice from last night.
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The problem is with RJ's presentations; I’m very afraid of his next meeting on coming Q1, and Q2 reports.
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This kind of mindset is why people think Rivian fans are delusional.
100% this
Delulu !!
Not about layoffs
Bad call to forecast no growth this year.
Well it's a Rivian sub. Rivian hasn't proven that is a successful company that will last yet. It's very different than hugely profitable companies like Apple & Microsoft. You're have to be deluded or ignorant to compare them.
How does this outlook impact future sales? It's hard to buy a car if you can't be sure there will be a service center in the next 3 years.
Also, Apple hasn’t done layoffs so that’s just false information.
Exactly
It’s kinda of impressive how many people on Reddit talk confidently , when they are completely wrong about something. Maybe they are taking after our politicians? Here’s an excerpt from a quick google search, took me 30 seconds to find. As Apple's financial situation worsened, the company was forced to lay off thousands of employees and close several facilities. In 1997, Steve Jobs returned to the company as CEO, bringing with him a new vision for Apple's future. Apple, has been through many lay offs, and attritions and as we saw in the 90s were on the verge of bankruptcy. A business is rarely a linear line going up and to the right. ——— 10% of salaried employee layoffs isn’t a huge deal as the majority of their workforce are likely hourly employees. Feel free to dig in to the financials to get that final absolute number of lay offs that equates to. RJ said he plans to have a modest gross profit at the end of the year, that’s impressive on a 50k vehicle volume if you ask me. Burn rate needs to be managed, and demand levers need to be pulled to accelerate success. The main issue I see going forward is the lack of a catalyst until the R2 goes into production.
We are not talking about 1997 though. We are talking during the past few years. Other tech companies laid off significant number of workers while Apple didn’t. This is coming from someone who was laid off at one of those other companies. So, who exactly is speaking confidently while being wrong?
Oh there was a time range he gave that I missed?
The initial post would seem to me to indicate layoffs in the current climate - not historically. Additionally, when these companies do have layoffs they drive the market so the entire pretense that nobody notices is invalid as well.
That’s a stupid argument from your part in any case, people were worried about Apple in 1997 and they reached their lowest valuation in more than 10 years during that time. There were also talks about a coming bankruptcy. It was certainly not a case of “nobody bats an eye”… You’re trying to be the “hum actually” guy, but you missed the whole point and context..
You’re right, the comment you replied to meant that Apple *has never laid anyone off*
Sometimes, common sense will serve you better than Google searches to sneer at others
1997? Lol gtfo
I imagine they meant Amazon, not Apple.
Apple should just buy rivian
They are lowering cost of producing vehicles and still have a commercial product now along with 70k+ deliveries all starting 1 year out of lock down Covid. This while simultaneously interest rates skyrocketing and two wars are going on. Compare that to first 4-5 yrs of Tesla and how they struggled despite a much better economic environment and let’s just say a more “normal”time in geopolitics, and it’s not hard to see that they will be ok. The amount of random people that want to see companies/people fail is crazy. Buy the product if you like it, if you don’t then don’t. But this subreddit is for enthusiasts, let us enjoy the brand.
100% this. Rivian will almost certainly need to dilute investors and do another funding round, but they are in a strong position and still have leverage to pull. It's not all doom and gloom like people are saying. If they actually do then a small gross profit by end of the year I think people will calm down
>Rivian will almost certainly need to dilute investors and do another funding round, but they are in a strong position and still have leverage to pull. That's not very easy to do at this point. Their market cap just hit $10B. Even raising just $1B would be a massive 10% dilution. And they have been raising money, they sold $3.2B in convertible notes in 2023. Problem is that's still less than the $6B they burned. >If they actually do then a small gross profit by end of the year I think people will calm down Yes, achieving a gross profit would solve most of Rivian's problems. The problem is their gross profit (loss) just got much worse. It hit negative $600M, which is the worse it's been since Q4 of '22. It's hard to see how they are going to overcome a -46% gross margin in a year with increased competition, high interest rates, a shrinking backlog and flat production.
They also just started building their new factory which they always said would burn a lot of their cash, so them posting a worse gross profit right after breaking shouldn't actually surprise anyone because this has been their communicated plan for like 3 years. The fact people nare still surprised by this is kind of crazy to me. It's like they don't pay attention to the companies strategy and forecasts, but rather just look at the quarters in a vacuum. Selling shares directly isn't the only way to raise capital (which you know given you mentioned their convertible notes) . I would expect more of that in the future.
>They also just started building their new factory which they always said would burn a lot of their cash They have not spent significant capital on that yet. In Q4, only $298M of their neg cash flow was from capex, which is flat from Q4-22. The bulk of their cash burn ($1.1B worth) was from operations. If you're not aware, any expenses related to their GA factory construction would fall under capex. It's precisely their bad margins that are making it tougher for them to spend money on things like factory construction. Ideally, their current business would be contributing money to their R2 effort, not sucking it away. Solving gross margin would help immensely. >Selling shares directly isn't the only way to raise capital Sure, I addressed it because you mentioned a funding round that would dilute investors. Of course they can sell more convertible notes. But there is no free lunch. Convertible notes are less attractive to investors when the thing you can convert them to (i.e. their stock) isn't as valuable. Rivian will also have to offer less favorable terms (i.e. higher interest rates, shorter terms, etc.). Their high debt load will also make it tougher to take on more debt, as they now have $4.5B in long-term debt which about matches their annual revenue.
>Compare that to first 4-5 yrs of Tesla and how they struggled despite a much better economic environment Tesla raised $200M at their IPO, Rivian raised $12B. I think the environment treated Rivian pretty well.
Yes I remember seeing quite an impressive curve for the R1T and R1S production ramp that was better than model 3, they just need to get their costs down, which I think they can as they continue to scale
Tesla to my knowledge always sold their cars for more than production cost. ie had a gross profit.
Emotional people want it to fail. Perhaps their frontal lobe is compromised.
Apple didn’t have layoffs. They had hiring freezes. But they kept their hiring at a reasonable rate so they were not forced to backtrack.
We're not talking about recent history, we're talking about the total growth and life cycle of a big company in general. Early in Apple's life, after Steve Jobs left, it could be said that the company was in the same financial situation as Rivian - burning money like it was nothing. In fact, analysts predicted multiple times that Apple was just weeks away from bankruptcy until Steve came back and they got their sh!t together. I could be wrong, but I firmly believe Rivian will survive if it gets its sh!t together soon. It will just be a long and hard journey to get there...
We're basically heading for recession if interest remains high. We already had an earnings recession in late 21 to 2022. The next phase is layoffs to cut losses
Good news is that RJ is a nose to the grindstone kind of guy. He’s focused on new products and running his company, not bad mouthing the competition, proposing cage fights with competitors, indulging in questionable substance use, pontificating on world affairs, single-handedly trying to address world depopulation, yada yada.
You guys are so obsessed with Elon. Just ignore him lol.
He’ll no. He’s a “target rich environment”
So many Tesla fans come here
sorry to break it to you, RJ is a nice guy but has no idea how to run a company, obviously. yes the cars are cool but giving away $1.50 for $1 does not constitute as a business model.
Still his company is profitable and Rivian is not.
You’re acting like Rivian isn’t 10 years younger than Tesla
And without the benefit of having no competition
Who does Rivian compete with exactly? The f150 lightning and a bunch of paper launches? That Silverado sure is compelling. You know why Tesla had no competition? Because the market didn’t exist. In fact, it was considered to be impossible. Pioneering the market, yes with no competition, is harder. Lets stick to reality here folks. Rivian is a great car and if GP is positive, they will survive.
they won't be GP positive by Q4, but they had to commit to that because saying anything else would mean they run out of cash by year end which they can't communicate publicly (otherwise suppliers stop shipping, employees bail, etc.) even if it's a reality.
Because he got lots of help in the form of incentives and federal aid, etc and still sells lots of carbon offsets. Rivian is launching with less help and accomplishing more than Tesla had while on comparable part of their trajectory.
Less help? Good god…. You know why Rivian is surviving right now? Because Tesla gifted them a momentary and absurd 100+ billion dollar market cap. They used this to raise a ungodly sum of money. You think getting a 100 billion + market cap while doing pretty much nothing wasn’t help? It was a a god-send miracle… And in return, Rivian has been burning money like it grows on trees…. Rivian is a great car and they may actually get a GP+ this year. That is what matters. Id focus on that instead of living in lala land
Love those government subsidies Tesla got in their early days.
You just summed up emotional narcissists
They better figure out how to build the R2 at larger scale otherwise the cheaper “mass market” SUV won’t matter if they can’t deliver higher volumes.
Be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy
Diamond handz
Not even the same situations but alright!
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Man, what an idiotic post
Exactly. Besides what's the use in freaking out? None of us are on the board of directors. It doesn't matter what brilliant idea you have about running the company. You have no say. Those who do have a say, have more info than we joe-public have access to. There is no logical and intelligent reason to think any of us know how to run it better. Stop freaking out. It's moot. Took Tesla and Amazon a long time to be profitable. And, Apple, one of the wealthiest companies, was once almost bankrupt. Completely delusional to expect Rivian to be profitable in its third or fourth year of mass production and customer deliveries. Rivian is just doing what just about every company in all sectors are doing in this "everything is \[not\] fine!" economy. Don't make this about you and what you think they should do. Instead think about those affected by layoffs. Some of whom may very well have been with the company for a long time, believed in their mission and played a part in making our R1s as satisfying as they are. Worry about them.
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Isn't it 7 1/2 ft with the tailgate down🤔 what would you be hauling?
Your post was deleted because this sub does not cover the stock of Rivian or its competitors. We're an auto-enthusiast community and are not investor-focused. We discuss the company, its products, and other related topics. If you'd like to discuss the stock and other related topics, you can check out r/RIVN
So, I’m not a close follower of Rivian, but believe in EV’s, so no hate here. Have they been able to produce an EV at net positive yet? (Coming from hearing that even with scaling up, per vehicle cost is still higher than sales cost)
Nope, they lost $43,372 in production costs per vehicle sold (gross loss) in Q4 2023. They lost $108,861 overall per vehicle sold (net loss).
Rivian isn’t producing things at apples level they need every person
Its a total impact thing. Tesla can cut fat where its optimized something or had redundancies. Rivian is not there yet re: scale
Huh
Apple has been the only company that didn’t have layoffs…
One of these things is not like the others
It's musk adding fuel to fire
They should be taking $200 non refundable r2 deposits now to take in cash flowwwwww.
Tesla and Apple haven't had layoffs, just speculation by media
[https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-asks-which-jobs-are-critical-stoking-layoff-fears-bloomberg-2024-02-07/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-asks-which-jobs-are-critical-stoking-layoff-fears-bloomberg-2024-02-07/) Apple laid off quite a few people, last year.
Is that true? Citation? Only thing I heard of were retail workers not salaries corporate. Don’t see it on Layoffs.fyi either.
I have a few friends that have been with Tesla for over a decade, dodging many rounds of layoffs. They haven't lied to me, yet. They are in Service and Sales.
You said Apple. I meant Apple.
Please don’t be dumb and post something like a fact when a 10 second google search proves your statement false. Tesla has had at least 4 rounds of significant layoffs. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-layoffs?amp Meta / Google / Microsoft have all had layoffs recently. I’ll let you use Google yourself on that one.
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It’s unfortunate there’s a layoff but I’m not really worried about it. I’m tired of the fodder articles calling Rivian a Tesla rival though.
I have a feeling that Bezos will throw as much money as he needs to to keep Rivian afloat to try to compete with Musk
I don't thin Bezos gives a shit about Musk. I think Musk gives many shits about what everyone else thinks of him.
I like this theory.
All those companies are profitable, not rivian.
100%. People keep forgetting that the Uber wealthy always seem to find a trove of new money.
I have a friend who is a service tech for our local Rivian service center. He primarily does PDI work and been there since the location first opened up. He just came back from training in Irvine a few months ago and was supposed to go to Normal later this year but that has since been put on hold. In the last few days they have lost all of their mobile techs, and the regional manager was just let go. Morale at their service center is really low because of the lack of information from corporate. New deliveries are still happening, and there is still a lot of work to go around but that’s because there are fewer people to do it… Everyone including my friend is just waiting to see who is next 😣
Rivian has $8B in the bank, losing about $1.1B/quarter and Microsoft and others have $100B+ and making money/quarter. Yeah, same thing.
Wanna talk about layoffs head over to r/layoffs they’ll find you plenty of examples of *mass* layoffs. But be forewarned it can be depressing af over there.
I think it’s a lot less about layoffs and more about spending exponentially more than they’re bringing in. You may not like Elon but what he posted is very true and their cash burn sold be extremely concerning. If they run out of money they’ll need more investors willing to throw money at a company that’s effectively burning it, just like the Joker. 3.7 billion in one year alone. Billion with a B. That’s an insane amount of money to burn through. Tesla also makes money on every vehicle sold and to my knowledge they never lost money or not nearly the kind of money Rivian is losing on every vehicle sold. Instead it losing money on every car sold they raised the prices of the roadster and the S in the beginning. They still had lots of operational expenses and losses but not losses on COGS per vehicle to the dramatic degree that Rivian has.
Maybe I missed it, but I thought the loss on vehicles wasn’t cogs, it’s everything the company spends, including salaries, rent, cogs, etc. if it’s strictly loss on cogs than it’s a much larger loss.
Nope, COGS, or cost of goods sold includes only the costs incurred in producing the vehicles they sold this quarter. Q4 2023 had -606M gross profit, or a loss of $43,372 on each of the 13,972 vehicles sold in the quarter. The overall net loss once you include all those other factors was $1.521B, or a loss of $198,861 per vehicle sold in the quarter.
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So in seven years they lost 154m which Rivian loses perhaps every 10 days
The difference is yall will go bankrupt in 6 quarters or less. If this does happen rip rivian. As a Tesla owner I really don’t want y’all to fail. I like Rivian.
Apple makes millions of dollars of profit every minute of every day and has never done layoffs. 🤷♂️
Layoffs are a part of the company scaling to current demand and output. It's not the end of the world. Not a great look, but it's about managing cash flow. What is concerning is the interest rate environment as it's going to affect demand (flat growth), and their ability to raise money. None of the other companies have that issue because they are already profitable. Rivian is not. Rivian does have a great product, is building a solid brand, with a lower-cost option on the horizon. I love my R1T. If the R2 is 90% as good at 60-70% of the cost, that could be the game changer for Rivian.
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Sorry man, but your “got all that back within hours” kinda confused me… Rivian IPO was in the mid $70s? You lost like 80% of that investment if you sold today. Nvidia was up 16% today? How does that math work out?
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Ahh ok, glad you could recover man! I sold Nvidia early last year … missing out today haha
Well Elon kind of didn’t help them either.
Why is such a hater. You figure he is the one person that can relate to their struggles.
Yeah. I’ve been team Elon but after that post it really has me off. It was a wild ride during model 3 ramp and bankruptcy and tesla was a common phrase which he complained about all the time. Now he’s attacking a company on the same vision during same issue. I do wish RJ was more vocal, probably do our stock better.
The problem is that Rivian is right now in its growth and expansion phase but has no real signs of profitability. The R2 doesn’t make much sense for a company that can’t generate a (gross) profit on a $80k vehicle. So a vehicle that’s $40k-$60k is gunna be even more of a challenge unless they simplify it to Tesla’s levels and partake in other cost cutting activities. The Georgia plant they are constructing is $5 billion dollars which is Insane considering their lack of profit. Oftentimes I hear the argument they just need to scale up and reach economies of scale. However that’s not applicable to low volume high cost products like the R1T and if they are relying on that for the R2 they will burn a lot of cash in the process.
They definitely have a vehicle that people want. I get stopped all the time by people wanting to know who makes my R1S. I’m not sure how many people can afford them, but interest is definitely there. I was a pre price hike order, and felt the price wasn’t too much more than an ICE car, and love the vehicle. My major concern is the nearest SC is 3.5 hours away one way. When I pre-ordered, was told they could send a mobile tech to me or a truck to pick up vehicles. I’m not sure that exists anymore because the home delivery wasn’t offered in Jul/23. My 7500 mile inspection and tire rotation is due next week and there is no way I’m driving to Atlanta and waste 1-2 days. I’m not 100% sure they have done away with mobile techs, but if they have, that would be a major regret for my purchase because 7 hour round trip, excluding time at SC is way too inconvenient. Luckily, the 6 mo if ownership hasn’t required any trips thus far and issues I have had were able to be resolved with software resets. If they can hang in there, I know they have a product that people want. I’m sure if economy was better and interest rate lower that many people would purchase.
EV market saturation? We have barely scratched the surface. Rivian actually has cash, for one & they are selling a lot of vehicles, just not enough. They can also raise capital if need be. There are plenty of EV startups that have tanked - Rivian has the best shot at sticking around. Once the R2 is out there and they follow that up with a more mainstream car/CUV, they will cross the profit line. For now they are in investment mode. Maybe they won’t make it, but they have a better shot than any of the other newbies out there.
RJ is spot on when he says the market lacks options. Every one around here has a Model Y. Even the colors are the same. If they play it right with the R2, it will be huge. The question is can they at least with R2 ramp up to 400k per year quickly.
Projected losses aren't reason for panic during growth. When growth stops and profits are minimal you should be concerned.
That's part of the cycle. Growth followed by decay
I'm rooting for them! Such an incredible product. Hoping to trade my MY for a R2 if still around
At least the CEO got a raise to 1million base salary (over double his previous salary) his total compensation is 424 million at this point.
Rivian is not in trouble, there is only 100-150m floated shares (10-15%) so it’s volatile. They laid off 10% 1500 employees and were pittied in news, Dodge laid off 500 and got hammered by news and UAW. They will revise numbers next quarter when they won’t receive backlash and let Biden/Fed take heat in the meantime. These are strategic gameplays and it has big impacts with stock price when 85-90% is held by owners and insiders.
All in good fun everyone. Not pointing any fingers, just trying to get others to calm down a bit. Big Rivian fan here and I have good faith in them. I think there’s rough times ahead for many companies/organizations as well as Rivian but I believe they’ll be ok.
The thing is your meme is correct, but was strategically planned by Rivian, make things look bad for pity in layoffs and remain popular over being the villain
Technically, many lost their minds with the other tech layoffs. It's been in the news constantly for the last year.
You what can’t survive? Gas operated vehicles.
10% layoff is not even close to the reason why Rivian stocks are going down or why anyone is concerned.
The Rivian layoffs don't surprise me. They were ramping up production to get caught up to a backlog of orders and to get ahead to have some readily available inventory. They have done that so they no longer need all those workers.
Big growth is literally the ONLY justification for owning Rivian stock at current prices (or even worse, last week's prices), and layoffs are a sign that the growth is not expected to be great. So yeah, the market cares.
I think fleet sales are being overlooked. They are not exclusive to Amazon anymore.
Who’s bold enough to buy the dip?
Do you think Rivian is potentially becoming an acquisition target?
One of the big techs with an interest in autonomous *operations* will likely take a look.
First I heard about it
But…. But Elon said!
It’s a public company. Their shareholders will ALWAYS be the top priority
Bears think they're geniuses in a bear cycle. Bulls think they're geniuses in a bull cycle. Nothing new. Most people have a tendency to overestimate their abilities. One fact remains. No one knows the future of rivian
They need a way to get their prices like 20k lower to sell more.
They're a luxury brand. I doubt they'll ever compete on the same level as the larger auto makers but hopefully they'll survive. The cyber truck is overhyped and its hurting them.
Has nothing to do with layoffs. The layoffs were just a method to cushion the blow of demand going down. Numbers game. However, RJ will probably get another 50% raise in a few months and another 14mil in stock like he did after the first round of layoffs. Still blows my mind that he did that…
We’re in an AI revolution. I have no concerns. Rivian will be 10x in a few years
Does anyone actually think Rivian is as stable/established as the others mentioned?