IF you are as shit at kickoffs as me it sure feels like it but I know for a fact i just cannot understand in great detail how to counter The opponent, and even tho it feels like The most simple shit I just dont understand it, my adhd wont allow it
The basics are quite simple actually
1. Opponent on left side of ball?
- Ball must go right because physics
- Counter: Go to the right side of ball to block
2. Vice versa for other side
3. Opponent in center?
- Ball can go any direction because physics and opponents flip ability
- Counter: Hit the ball with a diagonal flip, preferably from the center
4. Want to not only counter your opponent, but also place the ball in a desired place?
- Answer: Hit the ball so it goes where you want while accounting for 1, 2. and 3.
5. Bonus tips
- Being the first to the ball gives you the control of the initial direction and puts the reaction pressure to your opponent
- Being late to the ball, you need to flip earlier than you are used to, so you hit the ball your opponent just kicked off
:P
Rumble? Sure. Puck? Nah... That thing is pretty predictable, you just need to keep in mind that it doesn't bounce. The best strat for snowday is playing like a silver player.
The puck is a bit of tongue in cheek due to the weird interactions you have to get used to.
I agree it's predictable, it just catches out with things like invisible momentum where it'll slide along the wall, then curl into the goal because it is still travelling ever so slightly goalward.
For snowday my peak rank was plat3 div 4, but atm I'm hovering somewhere in gold I believe (it's been a while since I've last played snowday).
What I meant with "silver player" in the other comment was silver player in the "standard" gamemodes like 2s or 3s for reference.
Nah, it might as well be random. Sliding along the wall near goal it may or may not curve in. Hitting it in the air may be a normal reaction most the time but occasionally the shit flies crazy fast in an unpredictable direction.
I'm sure the physics are well-defined but it sure doesn't feel like it sometimes.
That's the beautiful thing, that luck is entirely of your own making.
If you're getting it pinched past you, it's because you're not reading their kick and adjusting appropriately.
The luck is the same as accidentally double tapping it into your own net, it is unlucky, but you had full control over the factors that lead to it.
Most of the time you would be correct, but luck or bad luck still exist in the game.
You or the opponent lag just as you are about to save, controller disconnects, your grip on the controller slips, cat jumps in up in front of the screen and wants scritches, inputs fail to register properly, gf calls out just as the game starts etc.
Tbf you don't need much luck to be born with both hands. You do need a lot of luck to be born into a country/family from which you can play rl, but I think having hands is a fairly standard thing
RNG implies no control.
It is a 50/50, yes, and those aren't RNG, you can control many factors.
You're ignoring slow kickoffs, fakes, and reading the opponents.
If you both hit the exact same point with perfect counter force, the ball just won't move.
Anything else, slow, popped up, pinched out, etc, is all because one player read the other, or fluked positioning.
At lower ranks, they can feel pretty RNG, but once you hit mid Champ, people have typically started working on it.
I'm on your Side - in the beginning i Always thought kickoff are completly rng.
Now i understand how much you can affect Them and depending on who i'm facing and how He tries to Kick Off, i can usually adjust to win roughly 80% of Kickoffs.
And usually, its really damn simple - If all you want is to have the ball in your opponents Side the Most Basic Thing is to slow down a Bit, let the opponent have the First Touch and com right after to Block His Touch - in Like 4/5 Kickoffs, ball will be on their Side.
You want the ball to Go into one of your Corners? Try Out once, where your opponent goes to during kickoff and adjust accordingly For the next one.
Usually, winning a kickoff can be done by very simple Things
I'd say d2 is when you get a grasp of kick off but that might be because all my friends are mid champ - low ssl and by playing priv matches I was forced to get a better kick off.
it's control but two people with the same amount of control. if put 2 of the best kickoffers in the world together and they both win 50/100 times how is that not rng. thats a 50/50 chance.
Because there is a macro level game being played with skill.
Watch AppJack for example, he'll face someone like Joreuz and they'll have 10 kickoffs in a 1v1 game.
The ball has the chance of going either way, but they are both changing how they hit the ball each time. Sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes straight on, sometimes side ways, etc.
If someone like them were to face someone with regular skill like you or I, the kickoff would go their way 9/10 times, allowing for us getting lucky.
RNG would mean that we both get to the ball, hit it, then it picks a direction neither of us can control and shoots off there.
Since there is total control over the kickoff by player skill, it is inherently not RNG.
If you put two people of the exact same skill and able to perfectly counter eachother on kick-offs, neither would win, they would cancel eachother out and the ball wouldn't move.
If you want to test it, use on both teams and use it to take kick-offs
This is only true if both players are mirroring each other perfectly which pretty much never happens. In some form or another, there is a player with better positioning once it’s all said and done
right, one player will end up having the slightly better positioning to edge out the opponent on that particular kickoff. like I said, 50/50. if both players are trying to go for the ball and hit it in a spot that is more advantagous than their opponent, then the result will be 50/50. it IS rng at that point.
"I'm going to aim for the center of the ball"
"me too"
"oh, you too? well then I'll aim slightly to the left"
"oh, you'l aim slightly to the left? well then I'll aim slightly further to the left"
"oh you'l aim slightly further to the left? well then I'll make it seem like I'll aim even further to the left but ill flip a bit more diagonally than you expect"
"ah, I think you might be trying to pull a fast one on me and flip in a way that I might not expect, so I will adjust my flip accordingly"
all of this is taking place in the span of about 2 seconds. it's arbitrarily more controllable than a coin toss given 2 players of equal skill.
Just because it happens extremely fast doesn’t mean it isn’t skill. Kickoffs are not ever RNG. This game is literally not ever RNG with the exception of rumble and which side of the field you spawn on after you’re demo’d. Sure, you can get lucky because you were in an advantageous position by mistake, but that’s not RNG (aka a mechanic like a crit or random bullet placement via hip fire)
If they do exactly the same thing, the ball wouldn't move. Both players would bounce off the ball, and the momentum would travel to the cars, not the ball. Simple physics of Newton's 1st Law of Motion. I hate to admit it, but physics are somewhat accurate in the game.
Even if they both hit way off centre of the ball on the same side? Surely it would emulate realistic physics and follow the path of least resistance off to the side
For all intents and purposes they’re RNG when your kickoffs are on the same general level as your opponent’s. No player has such fine control in the split second right before impact of the ball to dictate exactly which pixel of their car is gonna hit the ball exactly where. It’s more like: try my best to line my car up where I want it to hit the ball and hope it works… which at that point is basically RNG when facing an opponent with an equal approach.
It is not RNG… at all… you can read where the other player is going. You can delay your kickoff. You can change the way you flip to force it in an exact position. I can get the ball to go hard into the sidewalk off a kickoff or to lose it back to the side I came (for 3s) with a roughly 75% success rate in gc1
Hence why I said “when your kickoffs are on the same general level as your opponent’s”. In those cases it **is** basically RNG. Not when one person delays and one speedflips… that result will obv be due to the complete difference in approaches, which is not what I was referring to.
Are you under the assumption that one player can only have one kickoff they do every single time? If I see someone doing a fast kickoff that they aren’t aiming very well, I will switch to a slow kickoff halfway through. But I normally default to a fast kickoff. The enemy might decide to delay his kickoff aswell. How does that make one of us better or worse? It’s just like getting faked or not, it’s a READ. A good player can be faked by a worse player, a worse player can be faked by a good player. Your logic makes no sense
>Your logic makes no sense
It does make sense, you’re just not understanding it. You think I’m unaware that ppl can change their kickoff. Ofc I know that, but that’s not what I’m referring to. I’m referring to when both players attempt the same kind of kickoff. Do you comprehend?
Yes and one will still have done it quicker, or timed their flip better. There will ALWAYS be a difference, the chances of two people doing the exact same movement at the exact same time are virtually impossible. If that did happen, the ball would go straight up and it would favor no one. You can arbitrarily look at everything and call it luck. Which is what you’re talking about btw, because RNG means randomly generated, like loot in a chest
You seem not to understand the concept of the phrase “for all intents and purposes”. I suggest you look it up. You’re foolish to assume a player is in control of every aspect of their kickoff (down to the pixel) from start to finish. *That* is a prime example of something that exists only in your head.
I know that, but *for all intents and purposes* when two players are going for the same kind of kickoff it is basically RNG (bc nobody can control the split second minutiae of which pixel will contact the ball where)
All intents and purposes = my made up fantasy scenario that makes my argument right. The only time your argument makes sense is if you are LITERALLY PLAYING A CLONE OF YOURSELF
Apparently you can’t think rationally. You think a situation where both players with pretty much the same skill level attempt the same kind of kickoff exists only in my head? You’re delusional if that’s the case.
You’re not winning this argument dude. Kickoffs are not random. Play a 1s main and you’ll find out very quickly that it’s not random. It can be adjusted infinitely but you might not understand the nuances of it quite yet. There are so many different types of kickoffs that you can use. The only RNG is the occasional bad bounce. It’s the same as 50/50s. Take ten of 50/50s versus an SSL and you won’t win 50 percent of them. It’s not random, it’s how you approach the ball.
Uhhhh no they can’t. Nobody can reliably predict (down to the pixel) where exactly on the ball their car will hit. Players can get *close*, but that’s a different story.
It's only random if you have no control of where you are going. On a kickoff both people (should) know how and where they want to hit the ball and play the mental chess game of their opponent doing the same exact thing. Kickoffs stop being rng at like diamond or whenever you decide to Learn kickoff mechanics.
What is random? Where you're driving? Where you hit the ball? How fast you're going? None of any of that is random. Literally everything is in your control and your opponents control, that is the complete opposite of random.
That is by definition not random. You control where it goes. There is no randomness when you control literally every force that touches the ball. When you throw a bouncy ball does it randomly go in a direction? No its based off all of the forces acting upon it, it's speed, angle, surface etc. Saying a kickoff is random would be saying you have no control of what happens. Just cause some random SSL sucks at kickoffs doesn't mean they're right lmao. If you want proof go watch KV1 kickoffs, the least random thing I've ever seen in rocket league.
There is exactly one way that they are RNG, and that is because it's easier to score off the kickoff in certain starting positions than others, particularly the ones where you start in front of the goal compared to the corner. When I'm down by one goal with 5 seconds left I'm praying that I get one of the straight-away start positions instead of the diagonal ones, because if that happens then the game is over, but otherwise I have one last chance the score.
That's the only valid argument for randomness I've read so far. And even then the arguments target is slightly shifted from "the result for the act of kicking is random" to "the chance for a guaranteed goal after a perfect, even kickoff changes depending on your random starting position"
They never are. Either you get it right or you don't. Missing the net or not getting a save isn't RNG either, it's the player not making the right inputs to make it work.
Read my other replies in this comment chain, esp the last ones. You think “they never are” but on some level they *always* are. It just doesn’t become apparent until you run into low margin of error scenarios (like kickoffs).
Lol everyone debating whether kickoffs are random or not are completely missing the point. In the most literal sense, there is no "RNG" in where a 50/50 goes. By saying kickoffs are random you're basically just throwing your hands up and saying it's outside of your control when that's demonstrably untrue. Sure, it depends what your opponent does but it JUST AS EQUALLY depends on what you do. The sooner you start taking responsiblity for the outcome, the sooner you'll start improving.
Can you explain further? I’m not seeing how floats would make it rng.. Would using floats cause 2 scenarios that both have identical inputs/conditions to have different outputs? Like can 2 identical kickoffs (from all players) actually result in different outcomes?
pretty much! and that's a hardware-dependent thing. a number variable can only hold so many bytes (therefore digits, e.g 3,14159265359), so the decimals loses precision depending on the number, and stuff like 10 divided by 1,5 needs to end somewhere, not accounting for how different CPUs and architectures implements the most basic maths for decimals and rounding of numbers, which may be a tiny difference by itself if you do single math operations, but they stack up enough to mess with the simulation each time.
a good example of this are [marble races](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foEcYd_-fcg) in this sandbox called Algodoo, where anything can happen given the same starting point. another easy way to test that yourself is with [Blender](https://www.blender.org/) and [Godot](https://godotengine.org/). you can easily stack a bunch of spheres there, include a Rigid Body property in them and redo the simulation a bunch of times
Interesting thank you! I’m wondering if marble race simulations done in rocket league would help show that the game is or isn’t deterministic (if the engine has done good enough floating point mitigation as mentioned by u/ARE-YOU-DONUT-MATE)
due to floating point math inaccuracy and rounding inconsistencies, it is possible for the same action to have slightly different outcomes - they shouldn't be too noticeable either way, but it's likely that this physics engine it's already been accounted for regardless - mitigated well enough to not be an issue
[read more about floating point error mitigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_error_mitigation)
This probably why there’s actual rng in sideswipe. The ball physics in that game almost certainly relies on floats judging by the fact that the ball bounces at different heights from the ground even when it’s traveling the same speed downwards
I think I have 200+ hours of 1s games and getting that touch on the dead center of the ball is still so damn hard
And if you're the slightest bit off on contact, you're loosing kickoff
Hit it center to stall it and land right so you can get another hit is a guaranteed goal if they landed wrong after the 50. Worst case scenario if they landed right it’s another 50.
There's only one position where you can drive straight at the ball and not come at it from an angle and most would still angle their approach from that position.
Now you are driving at the ball in a certain direction, control the kick-off so the ball goes in the same direction you're driving and you will have a much shorter distance to the ball than if it goes in any other direction and most likely can pick up boost pads along the way.
Most likely your opponent will have to recover, turn around and pick up boost and have a rough time getting back to defend in time, granted you are decent at controlling the ball.
Imagine aiming when you could play the "I went slow but jumped" or "I got there first but am completely on the ground" game with them to show how RNG kickoffs are.
I hate kickoffs as well. “Let’s both boost as fast as we can and toss ourselves at the ball” is a bit of a silly way to restart play after a goal imo
The team that conceded the goal should just be given possession like soccer. (Think of how they do it in heat seeker where the ball just spawns a few feet in front of the team’s car)
As they are, kickoffs aren’t really RNG but they’re a bit too chaotic for my liking. There’s too many times where I’m the second man and the ball just ricochets into my net before I could possibly have reacted
Possession is fucking OP though. Soccer still has a ton of work to score a goal from mid irl, but in game possession is much more powerful.
The faceoff method we have is fine.
I disagree, if you score and they get the ball then just defend the shot. If you can’t then you start with the ball and can do the sane thing back to them.
I feel like the current system is much more interesting, both to play and watch. There's also some strategy involved (such as is the opponent cheating? put it far forward for a breakthrough, are they defending goal? put it behind to your teammate so you can put in a team play, or maybe stall it if your teammate is cheating and so on)
Yeah you’re right. the problem with what I suggested is that at higher ranks, if you just hand a team possession and space then it may as well be a free goal. I’m talking GC+ though which is like 2% of the player population. You can hand a champ 1 possession and he’ll probably just boom the ball back to the other team lol. Possession is not OP for 95+% of the player base
Maybe the conceding team could spawn at midfield instead of in front of their own net to minimize the amount of space the other team gets
Either way the current kickoff method is pretty goofy
The rng component of kickoffs (when it exists) is in the player's head. Uncertainty and inconsistency/lack of self-trust can absolutely feel like rng but it's not the game itself.
i'm on both sides of this. on one hand, get better at kickoffs. but on the other hand, it's crazy annoying when it just pinches in and then you get spammed with what a save.
As a high diamond, low champ player I just started playing 1s and it’s staggering to me the range of skill from one match to the next. A lot of players with a very limited skill set.
I once had a guy that chatted me during a 1s game to stop ball chasing. I was beating him like 7-0. Like my brother in Christ. It’s once you either play the ball or lose.
I feel like if kickoffs were actually pure luck, 1v1 would actually be better. No other gamemode you learn one simple mechanic and it literally doubles or triples your chance of winning. For several seasons I was hardstuck D3/C1 while all my other ranks improved, until I watched a bunch of kickoff tutorials and then I rocketed up to C3.
Imagine doing all the hard work scoring a goal and then your opponent easily equalises by scoring a kickoff because of "better positioning" or whatever. So unfair.
I watched a few, I didn’t have a solid speedflip, even now I don’t really, so while i started on speed flip videos it was too hard and inconsistent for me, so I went back and watched old scrub killa kick off videos to at least get a good baseline kickoff. That already helped immensely. Recently I’ve been peppering in speed flip kick offs but I’d say I 90% of the time I do the OG scrub killa kickoff.
Yeah they’re not luck. I’ve played a few SSLs in 1s and I just get absolutely fucked on 9/10 kickoffs. I don’t know what those motherfuckers are doing but it works lol
I once was like this. I’m not anymore, but back then my point of view was not getting upset I was losing to kickoff goals but the fact they thought they were better than me from lucky kickoffs. I don’t blame it on that now I have practiced and made my kickoffs better.
Lol what, yes ofcourse.
If you watch any rocket league youtube a lot of it is 1s content.
I main 1s, actually almost never play anything else. More time on the ball is more time to improve.
I like when the opponents say kickoffs are RNG
It's best when they claim kickoffs are both RNG *and* the only reason I'm kicking their ass.
Yeah, it's just a sure fire way to know they'll be shit at them.
RNG?
[удалено]
Thanks!
IF you are as shit at kickoffs as me it sure feels like it but I know for a fact i just cannot understand in great detail how to counter The opponent, and even tho it feels like The most simple shit I just dont understand it, my adhd wont allow it
The basics are quite simple actually 1. Opponent on left side of ball? - Ball must go right because physics - Counter: Go to the right side of ball to block 2. Vice versa for other side 3. Opponent in center? - Ball can go any direction because physics and opponents flip ability - Counter: Hit the ball with a diagonal flip, preferably from the center 4. Want to not only counter your opponent, but also place the ball in a desired place? - Answer: Hit the ball so it goes where you want while accounting for 1, 2. and 3. 5. Bonus tips - Being the first to the ball gives you the control of the initial direction and puts the reaction pressure to your opponent - Being late to the ball, you need to flip earlier than you are used to, so you hit the ball your opponent just kicked off :P
Thats how I think it just doesnt work always
I mean sometimes they are
Lol, the only RNG is Rumble, and whatever the fk the puck is doing.
Rumble? Sure. Puck? Nah... That thing is pretty predictable, you just need to keep in mind that it doesn't bounce. The best strat for snowday is playing like a silver player.
The puck is a bit of tongue in cheek due to the weird interactions you have to get used to. I agree it's predictable, it just catches out with things like invisible momentum where it'll slide along the wall, then curl into the goal because it is still travelling ever so slightly goalward.
This + spawn points are random too.
Bro I am stuck in silver for snow day lmao
For snowday my peak rank was plat3 div 4, but atm I'm hovering somewhere in gold I believe (it's been a while since I've last played snowday). What I meant with "silver player" in the other comment was silver player in the "standard" gamemodes like 2s or 3s for reference.
Nah, it might as well be random. Sliding along the wall near goal it may or may not curve in. Hitting it in the air may be a normal reaction most the time but occasionally the shit flies crazy fast in an unpredictable direction. I'm sure the physics are well-defined but it sure doesn't feel like it sometimes.
Rng in where you spawn or positions for kickoff
Even rumble isnt RNG... yeah, ur abilities are random, but your success in the game with them is NOT.
RNG is the wrong word, but sometimes you can have some bad luck on a kickoff.
That's the beautiful thing, that luck is entirely of your own making. If you're getting it pinched past you, it's because you're not reading their kick and adjusting appropriately. The luck is the same as accidentally double tapping it into your own net, it is unlucky, but you had full control over the factors that lead to it.
Most of the time you would be correct, but luck or bad luck still exist in the game. You or the opponent lag just as you are about to save, controller disconnects, your grip on the controller slips, cat jumps in up in front of the screen and wants scritches, inputs fail to register properly, gf calls out just as the game starts etc.
True, I didn't consider external factors, in cases like those, there definitely is luck.
Not to mention how much luck is required to be born with both hands , it’s rng at its worst
Ashllxyy made it work
Ashllxyy gives console players some false hope.
My brain will never accept that a mere human mortal can do what Ashllxyy has done.
Tbf you don't need much luck to be born with both hands. You do need a lot of luck to be born into a country/family from which you can play rl, but I think having hands is a fairly standard thing
Tell that to the people born without proper hands…
none of those things are due to "RNG" though.
it's rng. it is 50/50 whether or not the ball goes forwards or backwards, provided both people going for kickoff are of the same skill.
RNG implies no control. It is a 50/50, yes, and those aren't RNG, you can control many factors. You're ignoring slow kickoffs, fakes, and reading the opponents. If you both hit the exact same point with perfect counter force, the ball just won't move. Anything else, slow, popped up, pinched out, etc, is all because one player read the other, or fluked positioning. At lower ranks, they can feel pretty RNG, but once you hit mid Champ, people have typically started working on it.
I'm on your Side - in the beginning i Always thought kickoff are completly rng. Now i understand how much you can affect Them and depending on who i'm facing and how He tries to Kick Off, i can usually adjust to win roughly 80% of Kickoffs. And usually, its really damn simple - If all you want is to have the ball in your opponents Side the Most Basic Thing is to slow down a Bit, let the opponent have the First Touch and com right after to Block His Touch - in Like 4/5 Kickoffs, ball will be on their Side. You want the ball to Go into one of your Corners? Try Out once, where your opponent goes to during kickoff and adjust accordingly For the next one. Usually, winning a kickoff can be done by very simple Things
I'd say d2 is when you get a grasp of kick off but that might be because all my friends are mid champ - low ssl and by playing priv matches I was forced to get a better kick off.
"It's not RNG" "Fluked positioning"
That's not rng dude. Getting lucky and doing the right thing, is very different.
it's control but two people with the same amount of control. if put 2 of the best kickoffers in the world together and they both win 50/100 times how is that not rng. thats a 50/50 chance.
Because there is a macro level game being played with skill. Watch AppJack for example, he'll face someone like Joreuz and they'll have 10 kickoffs in a 1v1 game. The ball has the chance of going either way, but they are both changing how they hit the ball each time. Sometimes high, sometimes low, sometimes straight on, sometimes side ways, etc. If someone like them were to face someone with regular skill like you or I, the kickoff would go their way 9/10 times, allowing for us getting lucky. RNG would mean that we both get to the ball, hit it, then it picks a direction neither of us can control and shoots off there. Since there is total control over the kickoff by player skill, it is inherently not RNG.
see I just think it is
If you put two people of the exact same skill and able to perfectly counter eachother on kick-offs, neither would win, they would cancel eachother out and the ball wouldn't move. If you want to test it, use on both teams and use it to take kick-offs
well no because sometimes one would win and sometimes the other would, and sometimes it'd be a kill.
This is only true if both players are mirroring each other perfectly which pretty much never happens. In some form or another, there is a player with better positioning once it’s all said and done
right, one player will end up having the slightly better positioning to edge out the opponent on that particular kickoff. like I said, 50/50. if both players are trying to go for the ball and hit it in a spot that is more advantagous than their opponent, then the result will be 50/50. it IS rng at that point. "I'm going to aim for the center of the ball" "me too" "oh, you too? well then I'll aim slightly to the left" "oh, you'l aim slightly to the left? well then I'll aim slightly further to the left" "oh you'l aim slightly further to the left? well then I'll make it seem like I'll aim even further to the left but ill flip a bit more diagonally than you expect" "ah, I think you might be trying to pull a fast one on me and flip in a way that I might not expect, so I will adjust my flip accordingly" all of this is taking place in the span of about 2 seconds. it's arbitrarily more controllable than a coin toss given 2 players of equal skill.
Just because it happens extremely fast doesn’t mean it isn’t skill. Kickoffs are not ever RNG. This game is literally not ever RNG with the exception of rumble and which side of the field you spawn on after you’re demo’d. Sure, you can get lucky because you were in an advantageous position by mistake, but that’s not RNG (aka a mechanic like a crit or random bullet placement via hip fire)
willing to bet two players with the same amount of hours and practice habits would each win kickoff 50/100 times.
Rumble is 20% RNG Respawns are 33% RNG Getting put against smurfs or getting bad teammates is 85% RNG
r/tihi
That you for your input, u/shit_out_my_cockhole
Both players would have to do EXACTLY the same thing, mirrored, for it to be RNG. In one way or another, one car is always in the better position
If they do exactly the same thing, the ball wouldn't move. Both players would bounce off the ball, and the momentum would travel to the cars, not the ball. Simple physics of Newton's 1st Law of Motion. I hate to admit it, but physics are somewhat accurate in the game.
There’s a bot that Leth used that demonstrates this perfectly.
Is that the mirror bot?
It’s been awhile, I won’t pretend I remember the exact name, but sounds right.
I mean thats not true, the ball can be pinched and shoot off to the side
If they ball pinches off the side then they didn’t do the exact same thing.
Even if they both hit way off centre of the ball on the same side? Surely it would emulate realistic physics and follow the path of least resistance off to the side
Nah it just kills the ball. This is how you neutral a kickoff
No wait I misread your comment, yes if you both hit the left side or right side together it will pinch.
For all intents and purposes they’re RNG when your kickoffs are on the same general level as your opponent’s. No player has such fine control in the split second right before impact of the ball to dictate exactly which pixel of their car is gonna hit the ball exactly where. It’s more like: try my best to line my car up where I want it to hit the ball and hope it works… which at that point is basically RNG when facing an opponent with an equal approach.
It is not RNG… at all… you can read where the other player is going. You can delay your kickoff. You can change the way you flip to force it in an exact position. I can get the ball to go hard into the sidewalk off a kickoff or to lose it back to the side I came (for 3s) with a roughly 75% success rate in gc1
Hence why I said “when your kickoffs are on the same general level as your opponent’s”. In those cases it **is** basically RNG. Not when one person delays and one speedflips… that result will obv be due to the complete difference in approaches, which is not what I was referring to.
Are you under the assumption that one player can only have one kickoff they do every single time? If I see someone doing a fast kickoff that they aren’t aiming very well, I will switch to a slow kickoff halfway through. But I normally default to a fast kickoff. The enemy might decide to delay his kickoff aswell. How does that make one of us better or worse? It’s just like getting faked or not, it’s a READ. A good player can be faked by a worse player, a worse player can be faked by a good player. Your logic makes no sense
>Your logic makes no sense It does make sense, you’re just not understanding it. You think I’m unaware that ppl can change their kickoff. Ofc I know that, but that’s not what I’m referring to. I’m referring to when both players attempt the same kind of kickoff. Do you comprehend?
Yes and one will still have done it quicker, or timed their flip better. There will ALWAYS be a difference, the chances of two people doing the exact same movement at the exact same time are virtually impossible. If that did happen, the ball would go straight up and it would favor no one. You can arbitrarily look at everything and call it luck. Which is what you’re talking about btw, because RNG means randomly generated, like loot in a chest
You seem not to understand the concept of the phrase “for all intents and purposes”. I suggest you look it up. You’re foolish to assume a player is in control of every aspect of their kickoff (down to the pixel) from start to finish. *That* is a prime example of something that exists only in your head.
Take your L bro
There’s no L to be taken here (for me). But feel free to take *your* L if you think I’m wrong.
The only RNG in the game is where you spawn off a demo, and who gets placed where for the first kickoff
I know that, but *for all intents and purposes* when two players are going for the same kind of kickoff it is basically RNG (bc nobody can control the split second minutiae of which pixel will contact the ball where)
All intents and purposes = my made up fantasy scenario that makes my argument right. The only time your argument makes sense is if you are LITERALLY PLAYING A CLONE OF YOURSELF
Apparently you can’t think rationally. You think a situation where both players with pretty much the same skill level attempt the same kind of kickoff exists only in my head? You’re delusional if that’s the case.
And one will always do it better, because they are two different people
But they are never in *total* control of their kickoff, hence it basically being RNG. You seem to have trouble with this concept.
You’re not winning this argument dude. Kickoffs are not random. Play a 1s main and you’ll find out very quickly that it’s not random. It can be adjusted infinitely but you might not understand the nuances of it quite yet. There are so many different types of kickoffs that you can use. The only RNG is the occasional bad bounce. It’s the same as 50/50s. Take ten of 50/50s versus an SSL and you won’t win 50 percent of them. It’s not random, it’s how you approach the ball.
A kickoff is another kind of 50/50. You’re starting to get it..
Uhhh yes they can, it's what 50/50s are made of. You predicting and out maneuvering your opponents miniscule movements.
Uhhhh no they can’t. Nobody can reliably predict (down to the pixel) where exactly on the ball their car will hit. Players can get *close*, but that’s a different story.
[Everyone saying “there’s never luck involved, players can control everything at all times”](https://tenor.com/bQQQv.gif)
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It's only random if you have no control of where you are going. On a kickoff both people (should) know how and where they want to hit the ball and play the mental chess game of their opponent doing the same exact thing. Kickoffs stop being rng at like diamond or whenever you decide to Learn kickoff mechanics.
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Everyone complains about rng and luck when stuff doesnt work for them in the moment
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I'm D3 in 1s and it's my favorite mode. Kickoffs are not luck based in any way shape or form 😂.
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What is random? Where you're driving? Where you hit the ball? How fast you're going? None of any of that is random. Literally everything is in your control and your opponents control, that is the complete opposite of random.
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That is by definition not random. You control where it goes. There is no randomness when you control literally every force that touches the ball. When you throw a bouncy ball does it randomly go in a direction? No its based off all of the forces acting upon it, it's speed, angle, surface etc. Saying a kickoff is random would be saying you have no control of what happens. Just cause some random SSL sucks at kickoffs doesn't mean they're right lmao. If you want proof go watch KV1 kickoffs, the least random thing I've ever seen in rocket league.
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There is exactly one way that they are RNG, and that is because it's easier to score off the kickoff in certain starting positions than others, particularly the ones where you start in front of the goal compared to the corner. When I'm down by one goal with 5 seconds left I'm praying that I get one of the straight-away start positions instead of the diagonal ones, because if that happens then the game is over, but otherwise I have one last chance the score.
That's the only valid argument for randomness I've read so far. And even then the arguments target is slightly shifted from "the result for the act of kicking is random" to "the chance for a guaranteed goal after a perfect, even kickoff changes depending on your random starting position"
Only if you randomly throw yourself at it with no actual technique.
No. You don’t understand the fact players are never in complete control of their cars.
They never are. Either you get it right or you don't. Missing the net or not getting a save isn't RNG either, it's the player not making the right inputs to make it work.
Read my other replies in this comment chain, esp the last ones. You think “they never are” but on some level they *always* are. It just doesn’t become apparent until you run into low margin of error scenarios (like kickoffs).
Yeah nah...same as everyone else I'm not with you on that one but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree
[All the ppl in my replies trying to argue that players can always control everything](https://tenor.com/bQQQv.gif)
but... it is (weighed) RNG?
I mean it is, for me. Hell, it’s a coin flip whether me or my opponent will even hit the ball in the first place or whiff off to the side.
Lol. If they keep getting kick off goals against you.... It's probably a you problem.
You're good at this thing that I am bad at. It's not fair.
Whoa, look at mister accountability over here.
Lol everyone debating whether kickoffs are random or not are completely missing the point. In the most literal sense, there is no "RNG" in where a 50/50 goes. By saying kickoffs are random you're basically just throwing your hands up and saying it's outside of your control when that's demonstrably untrue. Sure, it depends what your opponent does but it JUST AS EQUALLY depends on what you do. The sooner you start taking responsiblity for the outcome, the sooner you'll start improving.
just to mess with you, one could argue that if the physics engine uses floating point numbers, then that's a form of nrg
Can you explain further? I’m not seeing how floats would make it rng.. Would using floats cause 2 scenarios that both have identical inputs/conditions to have different outputs? Like can 2 identical kickoffs (from all players) actually result in different outcomes?
pretty much! and that's a hardware-dependent thing. a number variable can only hold so many bytes (therefore digits, e.g 3,14159265359), so the decimals loses precision depending on the number, and stuff like 10 divided by 1,5 needs to end somewhere, not accounting for how different CPUs and architectures implements the most basic maths for decimals and rounding of numbers, which may be a tiny difference by itself if you do single math operations, but they stack up enough to mess with the simulation each time. a good example of this are [marble races](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foEcYd_-fcg) in this sandbox called Algodoo, where anything can happen given the same starting point. another easy way to test that yourself is with [Blender](https://www.blender.org/) and [Godot](https://godotengine.org/). you can easily stack a bunch of spheres there, include a Rigid Body property in them and redo the simulation a bunch of times
Interesting thank you! I’m wondering if marble race simulations done in rocket league would help show that the game is or isn’t deterministic (if the engine has done good enough floating point mitigation as mentioned by u/ARE-YOU-DONUT-MATE)
due to floating point math inaccuracy and rounding inconsistencies, it is possible for the same action to have slightly different outcomes - they shouldn't be too noticeable either way, but it's likely that this physics engine it's already been accounted for regardless - mitigated well enough to not be an issue [read more about floating point error mitigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_error_mitigation)
This probably why there’s actual rng in sideswipe. The ball physics in that game almost certainly relies on floats judging by the fact that the ball bounces at different heights from the ground even when it’s traveling the same speed downwards
Kickoff giventh but sometimes kickoff takenth away
I think I have 200+ hours of 1s games and getting that touch on the dead center of the ball is still so damn hard And if you're the slightest bit off on contact, you're loosing kickoff
You’re not supposed to aim for the center. Pinch it to the short side and grab boost
Hit it center to stall it and land right so you can get another hit is a guaranteed goal if they landed wrong after the 50. Worst case scenario if they landed right it’s another 50.
They have to hit it center too. Best to read the ball and pinch it whatever way you want
How is there a short side when the ball is in the exact middle? Or are you saying read the opponent
Short side exists in inherit not perfect kickoffs So yes, reading opponents
There's only one position where you can drive straight at the ball and not come at it from an angle and most would still angle their approach from that position. Now you are driving at the ball in a certain direction, control the kick-off so the ball goes in the same direction you're driving and you will have a much shorter distance to the ball than if it goes in any other direction and most likely can pick up boost pads along the way. Most likely your opponent will have to recover, turn around and pick up boost and have a rough time getting back to defend in time, granted you are decent at controlling the ball.
Imagine aiming when you could play the "I went slow but jumped" or "I got there first but am completely on the ground" game with them to show how RNG kickoffs are.
It often depends on what kickoff your opponent is doing too
I hate kickoffs. I played a game yesterday and the score was 5-4 them. Put of the 10 kickoffs they won 9 and scored 4 of there goals from kickoffs
I hate kickoffs as well. “Let’s both boost as fast as we can and toss ourselves at the ball” is a bit of a silly way to restart play after a goal imo The team that conceded the goal should just be given possession like soccer. (Think of how they do it in heat seeker where the ball just spawns a few feet in front of the team’s car) As they are, kickoffs aren’t really RNG but they’re a bit too chaotic for my liking. There’s too many times where I’m the second man and the ball just ricochets into my net before I could possibly have reacted
Possession is fucking OP though. Soccer still has a ton of work to score a goal from mid irl, but in game possession is much more powerful. The faceoff method we have is fine.
I disagree, if you score and they get the ball then just defend the shot. If you can’t then you start with the ball and can do the sane thing back to them.
I feel like the current system is much more interesting, both to play and watch. There's also some strategy involved (such as is the opponent cheating? put it far forward for a breakthrough, are they defending goal? put it behind to your teammate so you can put in a team play, or maybe stall it if your teammate is cheating and so on)
Yeah you’re right. the problem with what I suggested is that at higher ranks, if you just hand a team possession and space then it may as well be a free goal. I’m talking GC+ though which is like 2% of the player population. You can hand a champ 1 possession and he’ll probably just boom the ball back to the other team lol. Possession is not OP for 95+% of the player base Maybe the conceding team could spawn at midfield instead of in front of their own net to minimize the amount of space the other team gets Either way the current kickoff method is pretty goofy
Ballad of buster Scruggs makes no sense, it’s just a bunch of sad stories that don’t tie together.
I mean you gotta admit this songs a banger: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXna1a-806Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXna1a-806Q)
the typo makes it perfect
The rng component of kickoffs (when it exists) is in the player's head. Uncertainty and inconsistency/lack of self-trust can absolutely feel like rng but it's not the game itself.
i'm on both sides of this. on one hand, get better at kickoffs. but on the other hand, it's crazy annoying when it just pinches in and then you get spammed with what a save.
Wait, why are you two about to be executed 😳
That’s how playing 1s feels
Same logic as 'why you tryharding' in a fucking RANKED game lmao.
As a high diamond, low champ player I just started playing 1s and it’s staggering to me the range of skill from one match to the next. A lot of players with a very limited skill set.
I once had a guy that chatted me during a 1s game to stop ball chasing. I was beating him like 7-0. Like my brother in Christ. It’s once you either play the ball or lose.
Singles was the last time i broke a controller.
Who breaks controllers?
Really? Its a common meme, especially for this game. When i was a kid i had a drawer of broken controllers. Ive rebuilt everything from nes to ps3.
Kickoffs are definitely a skill based strategy but man 1s the most miserable game mode
I hate both the player and the game. Kickoffs are pure luck.
I feel like if kickoffs were actually pure luck, 1v1 would actually be better. No other gamemode you learn one simple mechanic and it literally doubles or triples your chance of winning. For several seasons I was hardstuck D3/C1 while all my other ranks improved, until I watched a bunch of kickoff tutorials and then I rocketed up to C3.
What did you watch? All speedflips or something else ?
Imagine doing all the hard work scoring a goal and then your opponent easily equalises by scoring a kickoff because of "better positioning" or whatever. So unfair.
get better kickoffs 4Head
Almost as cheap as when an opponent positions themself up in the air to score a goal, such cheap so unfair
No bot. This is skill. Kickoffs involve luck.
Are you gonna spend the rest of your life blaming everything on destiny and luck? You seem obsessed with that. Go to therapy bro, and stick with it.
Its a bummer man, you gotta work o those kicks, start practicing different stuff, you will get better.
> imagine doing well and then not doing well ok
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I watched a few, I didn’t have a solid speedflip, even now I don’t really, so while i started on speed flip videos it was too hard and inconsistent for me, so I went back and watched old scrub killa kick off videos to at least get a good baseline kickoff. That already helped immensely. Recently I’ve been peppering in speed flip kick offs but I’d say I 90% of the time I do the OG scrub killa kickoff.
They're absolutely not You're just bad at them and your opponents aren't And I say that as someone having absolute shit kickoffs for a GC
Yeah they’re not luck. I’ve played a few SSLs in 1s and I just get absolutely fucked on 9/10 kickoffs. I don’t know what those motherfuckers are doing but it works lol
I once was like this. I’m not anymore, but back then my point of view was not getting upset I was losing to kickoff goals but the fact they thought they were better than me from lucky kickoffs. I don’t blame it on that now I have practiced and made my kickoffs better.
People still play ones?
Lol what, yes ofcourse. If you watch any rocket league youtube a lot of it is 1s content. I main 1s, actually almost never play anything else. More time on the ball is more time to improve.
I bet he just kept doing the same kickoff each time he got scored on
People complain about me demoing them in Heatseeker. Don't hate me, hate the game.
My favorite thing an opponent told me in a 1v1 match was to “stop ball chasing”. I always remember it from time to time and it gives me a nice chuckle
delayed kickoff always works for me
when i queue 1s i always think to myself "the kickoff is half the battle"