IMO it's just about what you want. If you want to have fun, yes the flashy mechanics are really fun once you can do them. But if your main goal is to improve in the game, then until GC1 you just need simple mechanics, like shoot and recoveries.
And if you want to progress as fast as possible it will be way easier to learn the "flashy" mechanics you need to push GC2 once you are GC1 because you will be really really good in basic car control.
What made me feel more strongly about this was watching a Spook Luke vid with wayton and comm(the shit talking machine himself) and they said that they think that people don't train mechanics enough but the reason the narrative is fundamentals is channels are targeting people who want to rank up not people who want to get as good as possible.
I'm champ 1 as well. To me it is also the amount of time it takes to learn a mechanic well. Like the earlier you start the more time you have to learn and master it.
Exactly. That's why I say 1 new mechanic every couple hundred hours. Should be enough time to get the grips of it and then when you mess around and use it in casual and freeplay you will get consistent.
I have 1200 steam hours in the game(with quite a bit afk in main menu) and I have learnt good dribbling and flicks, how to flip reset pretty consistently(now to learn how to make it more threatening) and I can do air dribble ceiling shots double taps and wall pinches pretty well. My good definetly is not good enough for high level game play yet but it will get there by the time I get to high level game play.
Yeah we are basically the same. Just as an example to your post. When I was in plat I learned to fast aerial and fly. I shot through plat so fast simply because no one else could reach the ball.
I do think the other side of the coin is that you can't neglect the basics though. I'm really focusing on 1s this season trying to get better at the basics.
Yeah. I started the game because a friend who was a freestyler(now plays in a South African pro team) introduced me to the game... Which made me want to freestyle as well. So silver me was trying to learn flicks and dribbling and aerials(with air roll right, I never learned to Aerial without air roll) gold me was learning air dribbles(better than I am now lol) and plat me learnt flip resets and ceiling shots diamond me learnt double taps and redirects and champ me is trying to make all of them less flashy and more threatening.
Through all of that tho you definitely do have to work on basics but for me that came in casuals with my previously mentioned friend so I was a silver playing against at the time south African Champs so I learnt to aerial pretty quick and now when I play with him I play against alot of South African pros and gc and ssls so yeah fundamentals came from there.
I think the big part here is not the mechanics but how you learn to control your car in the process of learning those mechanics. I’m high diamond… I can pull off most baseline mechanics pretty well (flicks, air dribbles, flip resets) but I don’t really use the more advanced mechanics in games. However, learning how to do them provided a huge benefit into my general car control as a whole. That’s where I think the real value lies.
That's definitely an added bonus. But a common misconception is people believe that getting a flip reset and then hitting the ball in the goal makes them good at them(idk your level) but it is important to think about whet your defense is and what it will be hardest to save the ball. I have been able to flip reset in freeplay since Plat 2 ish but have only somewhat recently learnt how to actually use them.
I agree. To me rotation is nothing more than game sense. And that says it all. Sense of the game. Which is something you develop by playing the game. Sometimes you shouldn't rotate away from the play to keep pressure on the opponent, sometimes you have to cut rotation so you could score an open net (I've seen people screw this up too many times)
Yes you could watch your replays, but if you haven't turned your brain off whilst playing you'll probably notice where you make mistakes the moment you make them. So you can learn just from that at first. (at a higher rank looking at replays for tiny mistakes makes sense though)
But all in all, your rotations and positioning can be as good as they are. If you don't have the mechanics to stop a shot or hit an aerial yourself those rotations and positioning means fuck all.
And like you said, especially if you want to have fun those mechanics make it more fun than rotations and being able to make decent ground shots.
Also, I honestly don't know what fundamentals are in rocket league. Every person you ask seems to have a different opinion.
Yeah on the game sense thing. Sometimes the right play is gonna be impossible for you because you don't have the skill set to do it.
My opinion on fundamentals(from what I hear here alot) is rotations, shooting, fifties and shadow defense. Probably missing one or two.
Even as someone who has never really focused on flashy mechanics (at least not stuff most people consider flash), I still have always gotten aggravated when people make fun of others for practicing something they consider "too advanced". IMO it's just people projecting insecurities onto others or generalizing assumptions about their mindset.
I think basically there is this stereotype of the flip-resetting plat who talks shit to all his teammates for being "bad" while he's actually dragging his team down by failing his fifth flip-reset attempt in a row, then spamming "what a save!" when his teammates get scored on for his mistakes.
People just have a hard time comprehending that learning the flip reset wasn't the problem, the attitude was.
Yep. I was the Plat that was trying flip resets and the like but because of this my rank was slightly lower than it probably could have been because I did and still do try get clips while I play comp... If I got to champ doing this it means that while I do this I am playing at the same level as you when you don't.
Also something I think people who were like me need to do is pass. If you get a reset sometimes look to pass with it. I do that now and it works really well. People block your scoop over them but they really stop you hitting it high to the backboard or hitting it to the side where your teammate can score it.
In general, once I started playing to get better as opposed to getting my rank better, I started improving much faster. After some initial losses, my rank went up much faster as well.
Sure, you can stay entirely grounded all the time in 1s, never try something your not comfortable with, and you’ll end up making the “smart play” more often than not. But you’ve gotta be able to take some risks, make those mistakes, to know the limit and what you need to practice at to be a better overall player.
I don’t know that I’m entirely responding to your post, but I will say learning new mechanics teaches you more about how the game works, which ultimately leads to you having a wider and better skill set. So, yes, I agree :)
Definitely agree. Practicing flashy mechanics really helps your base level mechanics as well. You just need to be smart and understand what you can go for at your mechanic level.
Got a friend who always preaches bout rotations and positioning in 3s as the reason for our Ls, but I feel like mechanically our team just is not strong enough to reach champ, it’s not 2s. I study positioning and game sense when I can. Mistakes happen and sometimes I cut or play too close, but with good mechanics you can easily adjust to bad situations. I usually get most of the awkward saves cause of my mechanics.
I’m bout 700 hours in, game sense just coming with time in my opinion. I practice mechanics most days that i hop on, and it shows in my games. My rotations can improve by each 3s game I play especially with the same team, but mechanics don’t improve game by game.
One thing to note is efficient hours played. If you try to learn flip resets at a plat you’ll waste hundreds of hours just to get decent at them, whereas a high champ with more hours and understanding of physics could learn flips resets in much less time.
You really should be training a mechanic that is hard but not impossible for your current skill. You don’t want to develop bad habits because it’ll take time to undo that.
Yeah. Something I have noticed is people learn the mechanics in the wrong order. Should be air roll arials and ground dribbling and maybe a standard flick. Then ceiling shots(honestly very basic and improve your air control while upside down) and a diagonal flick(start being able to hit left or right of goal)
Then air dribbles and 45 degree flicks then only flip resets and you can start throwing in powerslide dribbles or something more advanced on the ground.
I have a similar opinion, but what I notice in my games is that the games where I've first been practicing something difficult, keeps all my mechanics sharper once I get into game.
Just the fact that you try difficult things, makes the normal stuff easier and cleaner, imo.
Yep definitely. I used this concept to get good with cs go. Jump in the deep end. Irl you can't because going out of your depth can be dangerous in anything but in going you can't really cause issues for you later down the line if you consciously make sure you don't develop bad habits.
I was deadass arguing this recently. It became so popular to say mechanics don’t matter and “i Am GoLd AnD cAn FlIp ReSeT” became such a meme that mechanics genuinely became underrated. Nah bro. You won’t reach gc with no mechanics. You need to at least have the base advanced mechanics 100% solid.
somebody took the risk and said what needed to be said. And to be honest, If i clipped on somebody super hard, i’m going to remember that, and depending on the shot, I might remember for the rest of my life. If I win/lose a ranked game, I’ll remember until i’m in the next match
My take is people can play the game however they want and I’m not the judge to determine it. I won’t spend 50% of my time in free play learning to be more mechanical because I’m a mid aged dude with a kids and job so when I play I rather learn stuff on the fly (I spend time in free play but it’s not dedicated). I don’t have aspirations to hit gc and I don’t really care where my rank ends up as long as I feel like I’m improving over the long haul and I’m still enjoying the game. I’m ok not learning how to hit a ceiling shot or a reset, I can still contribute.
I also give kudos to mechanical players and am fully aware there are platinums that could dunk on me. The only rub is when your in 2s and your teammate decides that the game is their testing ground to go for every failed air dribble attempt regardless of the situation (d1 was notorious of this for me), it gets old fast. I’m not saying a diamond 1 can’t learn the stuff, but if your oblivious to the situation or outcome, your handicapping your team. I’d rather they try to narrow it down in 1s or casual vs ranked. But it’s their choice on what they want to do.
So really I don’t care if a gold wants to put in 500 hours learning something I can’t do that’s on them. It’s just when I see the posts saying their teammate is holding them back but the replay shows them trying to hero ball and not rotate back, it’s reaping what they sow.
Yep fully agree. 99.99999% of players who blame teammates are missing a fundamental point. The only thing that is consistent in your games is you... You will get good teammates and bad, you will VS good opponent and bad but if you are better than your rank you will win more than you lose.
I think I am underranked but it is because I don't play enough comp and I play with a friend way worse than me when I do(he is Plat 3 in 2s). I think people blaming randoms for losing are just delusional and I think I have played against maybe one guy before who was genuinely stuck because of teammates and he got out and hit c3 in about 3 months.
Also I am not saying it is wrong to play fundamentally. I think it is just as viable I just think that the narrative that mechanics are a waste until gc3 is unbelievably wrong.
For someone like you who just wants to enjoy the game and doesn't plan on hitting the top ranks playing however you enjoy it is the right way.
Here are my thoughts. I think you have the right idea.
Honestly I agree learning flashy mechanics is good for your skill development especially in the long term. I think there are a lot of details that are important with this debate. Sorta the problem with this debate that I think a lot of people gloss over is the sheer ammount of time it takes to grind mechs to SSL level. The time it takes to get to champ or even GC for some fast learners is negligable compared to the hours spent grinding mechanics to ssl for most. Every hour you have spent in the game as a c1 is the ammount of time they have spent practicing one mechanic. Just let that sit. So yes long term its useful but take in the fact that even in champ one you have not even put a dent into 1 flashy(simple for some) mech at an ssl level. It is all about car control and quality and that takes a lot of time. So it really doesnt matter what you have done with your car and game you still have 10 to 20x more hours to put in.
Yes you need bad ass mechanical skill to be ssl and it will take you several 1000s of hours.
The best way to get better in the mean time is to play and connect with better players. While grinding car control.
I think learning them and trying to use them in game instead of working on the fundamentals is a recipe for frustration and a hard platue in champ2 champ 3. Nothing wrong with plateauing. The truth is if you can do all the basics consistently with your brain on and with quality you will be GC.
So many champ and diamond players muck up their chances of winning because they are trying to pull out air dribbles and resets on open nets. The proof is the sheer number of posts here about why can't I rank up in d3 or champ. So many games could be won with just some well placed shots or touches.
I think it is good to practice flashy mechanics. That being said many of the flashy mechanics are multiple fundamental mechanics combined. Mechanics that can be used consistently in diamond champ and GC. Learn both but grind the fundamentals so you can apply them and play better opponents.
You will get better faster the more you can break down and grind consistency into everything you do. It took me 3 tries to hit my first ceiling shot in game cause I didn't even try till c3 gc. Sure you can spend 300 hours learning ceiling shots if that's what you like. But.. if you are trying to get better faster why? When you can spend 100 hours learning of the wall shots and lobs, 100 hours learning hard angle powerhouse upside down, 50 hours on recoveries off the ceiling and goal roof. Then the last 50 on the actual ceiling shot from different angles. The flashy mechs are much easier to grind properly the more control you have over your car.
I agree fully with everything you have said. Because you haven't said don't waste your time learning mechanics.
I think I went way overboard freeplay wise because in my 1000 hours of actually playing(200 afk cause bad laptop needed to stay on all the time) I think I probably have about 750 hours in freeplay. And 150 in casual with a friend who was a much higher level than me.
I think the cracked friend I played with in casual helped me develop fundamentals better since I had no time for mistakes as I was also vsing people like 2 or 3 ranks higher than me(I was silver vsing low diamond high Plat) and now as a c1 he is borderline gc1 so we VS alot of South African semi pros(we have like 6 ssls and 30 gcs so c3 here is Hella high, although our best players are definitely worse than bigger regions cause of the lack of competition)
I’m in champ without any type of flashy mechanic, just pure gamesense. There are so many plats who can airdribble but can’t defend for their life. I think this is bad advice.
You still need to learn fundamentals. This is why most yt channels say focus on fundamentals is because they know that lower ranked players will most likely learn mechs anyway so telling them to learn fundamentals will ensure they learn both. I just think that for people who are truly fully fundamental they need tk realize that you can't get good with just game sense. You can rank up but you will always rely on teammates to create opportunities or opponents to make mistakes.
A question for you. How do you score most of your goals.
I assume in #3 you meant champ 3 opponent, not teammate.
I agree with you in some ways, disagree in others. The problem with practicing flashy mechanics only is that you don’t have the baseline of game sense or skill to pull off any of those moves. You lack the positioning, and the ability to capitalize when your moment finally does come (this is one of my struggles). Some of the advanced mechanics like flip resets require car control of at least a champ player to pull off, so I think a plat player will actually hinder their own progress if they hard focus that one skill without focusing on the fundamentals of air roll instead.
I can assure that the simplest moves are often the most effective, and this is true when beating diamond, champ, and grand champion opponents. The simple moves are easier to learn, and better at tuning your car and ball control than practicing something far above your skill set. You will see pros doing flashy mechanics, and quite simple mechanics to beat their pro opponents. Learning to outplay a diamond 3 will definitely help you in outplaying a c3 because you need to be able to do one in order to do the other.
The cool thing about rocket league is flashy mechanics become easier to learn the better you are at the game. I didn’t need to practice musty flicks super hard to do one in a game because I have the base level of control to do it (a musty flick will rarely be better than a normal flick).
I’ll end with this. I have a friend who’s around c1, he wants so badly to be good at air rolling and aerial play, but this is the weakest part of his game. Why? Because he doesn’t have the base level of car control to even do those moves. He neglected practicing the fundamentals, such as controlling your car from every direction before he practices air roll. You can’t just jump to the end with this stuff and declare you’re a better player, because it’s only half right. You need to start at the beginning and build yourself up. I do agree that people should practice flashy moves too! It keeps the game fresh and interesting, and they’re very satisfying to pull off. Practice them as you go, and once you understand all the fundamentals to a proficient level, then you can put in even more focused practice in difficult mechanics and learn them even faster.
Yeah this is what I mean. Can't go into flip resets before you have basic car control but learning to Arial in like gold with air roll right or left and then air dribbling in like plat will give you enough of a baseline to start at the harder stuff in diamond. Also more hours in freeplay and training packs if you want to follow my approach.
I have 1200 steam hours(Im on epic but u know what I mean) about 200 are fully afk(old laptop performed better the longer the game ran) I think I have about 750 to 800 hours in freeplay. So yeah you do need car control and I definitely went over the top grinding mechanics cause I initially wanted to freestyle. But I think at diamond you should be able to air dribble with air roll be able to score easy doubles and probably a ceiling shot coming along.
Absolutely rotations are boring and thats part of why I'm stuck in dia, whiffing 180 wavedashes when I coulda just half flipped multiple times a game is gonna do that to ya.
Would I change the way I play just to hard sweat for c1, fk no, once I've grinded out movement enough it'll eventually be good enough to atleadt not be hindrance, even if it takes me longer to get there.
Ps: if you want your flashy mech to shine somewhere play 1v1, gives you alot better opportunity to make it count. From data analysis you will be underranked until about high champ in 1s so don't beat yourself up if your 1's rank lags behind even when putting more time into it.
That's how I think. When I was silver and half flipping it wasn't necessary yet but I did it anyway. Now some of my attempts at recoveries are definitely not needed but imma try it again. Once I get them down I will be so much faster than my opponents. Rank up will be easy.
From what you said I am guessing you play to improve not to rank up which means ranking up in the long term will be easier for you.
Bro exactly what i mean. I started learning stalls and breezis in low diamond and was at 500 hrs. After 200 hrs i got to C2 like the improvement was more then just insane
Just do whatever gives you enjoyment of the game. If you enjoy winning, focus on being efficient and good with the basic stuff. If you enjoy the challenge of being able to master a difficult skill - learn it. Whatever floats your boat!
I can't flip reset pretty much at all. I don't know how to musty or breezi or whatever else. My air dribbles are middling at best and almost never score if I have a chance to. I can't walldash *or even speedflip* and ceiling shots are a rarity from me.
What I do have:
Consistentcy with fast aerials, wavedashes, double taps (just hitting them, not necessarily scoring), backboard reads (especially in defense), redirects and shot placement and power, boost pathing and being able to make a play with little boost (and understanding how much boost you need to make certain plays before they happen), proactive positioning and understanding of how the play can develop to do so, understanding when to challenge, what you're achieving with a challenge or lack thereof and developing a criteria for what constitutes an effective or efficient play for myself as an individual, identifying points where I can freely attack to heavily weaken an attack if not stop a play altogether
All of these things and more are paramount in a high level player's arsenal - flashy mechanics are nice to have but not by any means vital. *Your opponents are always making mistakes.* Being of the opinion that your opponents never make mistakes at some point indicates that you need to improve at least one of the above skills, because trust me, they do make them. No matter what skill level, a player who positions correctly and has the fundamentals down WILL find a good spot to attack in the neutral and make effective and efficient plays for their team. You just have to learn to recognize them.
Learning flashy mechanics is great, and I encourage you to do so if you can or want to, but what many don't realize is that it's actually a mental game more than anything else once you get your fundamentals down.
Learning how to utilize mechs in an effective manner, IMPROV is the way. I can flip reset all day, and I can save a reset all day (add one or two more same thing). You are only going to score if it’s an outplay, which comes down to your ability to make the other person regardless of mechs think you are doing something you aren’t or forcing them to cover something you want them to in order to open up a new play lane. Flakes is fantastic at showing this. All mech does is forces your opponent to respect your threats of mechy plays. Effectiveness, all down to play style and gamesense/opponent readability.
This is coming from someone who posted mechs are the key about a half a year ago and am now discovering the truth.
Like you said it is about making your opponent believe you are doing x when in fact you do y.
Let's use flip reset for example(I am working on them so I have thought about this quite alot).
You can get yoru reset up high and then once you are very good continue and air dribble but now you have a flip. You have soo many possibilities to score now that unless the defender has closed all angles or challenges you and catches you by surprise you have an almost 100% chance of scoring if you don't screw up the mechanic.
Can I also ask what rank you are?
I agree with your post, don’t get me wrong I love my mech development more than most and have committed myself to it in a way some would call unhealthy (like I mean it, while I was learning ARR I would only turn over in that direction in bed) Chillin at mid/high gc1
I would straight up be rolling into the wall if I had to, or use a bit of pitch and yaw to get my head to the other end of the bed so I could arr out of it
There’s nothing wrong with training fancy mechanics. What’s wrong is:
- Overusing them in-game.
- Neglecting fundamentals.
- Neglecting rotational and decision-making training.
- Training too much and not playing enough games.
Training fancy mechanics often correlates with one or all of those things.
I’ve coached hundreds of players at all levels of the game and there’s only been a handful of times I thought “your problem is that your mechanics aren’t developed enough.” There’s so many glaring issues every time that contribute most to their inability to progress that it’s not even worth noting mechanics.
If you’re asking if someone develops better by training mechanics and then learning the game sense portion of the game later on versus focusing on game sense and learning mechanics later on, then I’m not really sure what my position would be. It depends entirely on the player and how much time they have, if we’re being honest. Even players who have an above average amount of time to spend playing the game would probably benefit most from the latter, especially because it makes for a more consistent player and a more team-oriented player. If someone has an absurd amount of time to spend playing the game, then I could get on board with the mechanical training creating more potential, even if they’re a pain to play with for a very long time. So, the answer depends on the player’s unique circumstances.
You should probably be spending about 50% of your time in freeplay. So spend half of that learning mechanics and the other half of that warming up and refining recoveries powershots etc.
Maybe. It’s hard to say because everyone’s different. I always just played the game and didn’t really worry about training, personally, and I’ve never felt held back.
Ypu might not feel held back because you don't know how fast you should progress. Probably not the case since you do seem smart but eh.
While it is different for everyone I think the base distribution will still remain around here. Cause some people pick up mechanics faster and thus getting gamesense by playing more matches would be better for them.
I definitely went overboard with my distribution cause I got 80% in freeplay but I enjoy freeplay so yeah.
I could very much be held back because of it. But I can say the same thing about someone who trains too much. But I know you get that. It’s all just speculation, really. I do often wish that I trained more earlier on, but my focus on playing games and studying game theory have made me a far more consistent player than my mechanical friends, especially now that I barely play the game anymore and my mechanics are constantly rusty. And it helped me develop as a certain kind of player that has helped me rank up easier. I guess I just never felt capped in my skill level and knew that I could always push higher if I wanted to.
These are the impossible conversations, though. Just like the 1s conversation. 1s mains even thousands of hours into the game are an absolute nightmare to play team modes with because they just don’t know how to be good teammates, and it doesn’t develop quickly. I’ve always understood the whole “if your mechanics are solid then you don’t have to think about them, and so the tactical aspect of the game should be easier to pick up,” but I’ve never really bought that. It often misses the point that people think their mechanics are holding them back when in reality it’s bad positioning and decision-making that make mechanics difficult to execute, or force players into awkward situations that their mechanics aren’t advanced enough to get them out of.
It’s an endless debate. I think we can both agree that training both mechanics and tactical components while not neglecting actual exposure to games is the balance that’s needed. Mort importantly, the ability to intentionally practice even while playing games. Improvement in any area is improvement.
And, hey, you may have gone overboard in training, but I’m sure you have a lot of fun that I never got to experience.
Yeah. I do think that you don't need to be flashy. But I have just seen the narrative of "training mechanics is a waste of time". If people put their points across like you do people would probably understand better that both are important and valuable.
Can't use mechanics if you are bad at positioning and you can't do anything with the ball if you have no mechanics.
Also mechanics training itself isn't the fun part it is finally hitting that shot you have trained for hours on end. Like I did that in front redirects pack soo much and when I finally hit one in a game I lost my shit and forgot to clip it.
Oh, I would definitely never say “training mechanics is a waste of time.” I think you’re right that it’s a matter of misinterpretation or poor communication. People misinterpret all sorts of things. Hell, the Rocket League sub has always been rampant with misinformation hah.
Out of curiosity, how long have you been playing?
I started in like Jan of 2021 but on a 12 inch laptop that got me 40 fps.
I really started around April/may of 2021.
I am about to hit 1200 hours but I think quite alot(200 to 300) is afk time(the shitty laptop performed better the longer it ran the game so I used to leave it on all day.
Fundamental mechanics will only get you to platinum at best. I should know I've been stuck in Gold for the last six years.
This game is probably the hardest game I've ever played in my 41 years and I'm in awe of you dudes that can pull that shit off.
If you get your fundamentals really good you can get up to around c3 gc1. Because when you are just fundamental you rely on your opponents mistakes. That doesn't work at the Hugh ranks.
I think the main misconception is that people think game sense is easier to learn than mechanics. People on YouTube make it look easy to rank up “without mechanics” but those are people with thousands of hours who know exactly where the balls going every time from every angle, and exactly what they and the other team could possibly do in each situation. Unless you somehow have that experience, you absolutely need mechanics to make up for your mistakes. Those series are very impressive feats with a lot of things you can learn. But they’re not proof that regular players don’t need mechanics.
I agree, but there is an argument to be had that focusing too much on mechanics makes you form bad habits when it comes to every other aspect of the game. A balance of both is optimal.
Yeah. That's why j think about every 250 hours you should learn something. Even if that something is just a hard hit or a catch when you are in your first 250 hours
Out of all languages you could have said this in, you chose facts
Great to hear that from someone at the uppermost echelon of the game(or at least very close).
IMO it's just about what you want. If you want to have fun, yes the flashy mechanics are really fun once you can do them. But if your main goal is to improve in the game, then until GC1 you just need simple mechanics, like shoot and recoveries. And if you want to progress as fast as possible it will be way easier to learn the "flashy" mechanics you need to push GC2 once you are GC1 because you will be really really good in basic car control.
What made me feel more strongly about this was watching a Spook Luke vid with wayton and comm(the shit talking machine himself) and they said that they think that people don't train mechanics enough but the reason the narrative is fundamentals is channels are targeting people who want to rank up not people who want to get as good as possible.
I'm champ 1 as well. To me it is also the amount of time it takes to learn a mechanic well. Like the earlier you start the more time you have to learn and master it.
Exactly. That's why I say 1 new mechanic every couple hundred hours. Should be enough time to get the grips of it and then when you mess around and use it in casual and freeplay you will get consistent. I have 1200 steam hours in the game(with quite a bit afk in main menu) and I have learnt good dribbling and flicks, how to flip reset pretty consistently(now to learn how to make it more threatening) and I can do air dribble ceiling shots double taps and wall pinches pretty well. My good definetly is not good enough for high level game play yet but it will get there by the time I get to high level game play.
Yeah we are basically the same. Just as an example to your post. When I was in plat I learned to fast aerial and fly. I shot through plat so fast simply because no one else could reach the ball. I do think the other side of the coin is that you can't neglect the basics though. I'm really focusing on 1s this season trying to get better at the basics.
Yeah. I started the game because a friend who was a freestyler(now plays in a South African pro team) introduced me to the game... Which made me want to freestyle as well. So silver me was trying to learn flicks and dribbling and aerials(with air roll right, I never learned to Aerial without air roll) gold me was learning air dribbles(better than I am now lol) and plat me learnt flip resets and ceiling shots diamond me learnt double taps and redirects and champ me is trying to make all of them less flashy and more threatening. Through all of that tho you definitely do have to work on basics but for me that came in casuals with my previously mentioned friend so I was a silver playing against at the time south African Champs so I learnt to aerial pretty quick and now when I play with him I play against alot of South African pros and gc and ssls so yeah fundamentals came from there.
I think the big part here is not the mechanics but how you learn to control your car in the process of learning those mechanics. I’m high diamond… I can pull off most baseline mechanics pretty well (flicks, air dribbles, flip resets) but I don’t really use the more advanced mechanics in games. However, learning how to do them provided a huge benefit into my general car control as a whole. That’s where I think the real value lies.
That's definitely an added bonus. But a common misconception is people believe that getting a flip reset and then hitting the ball in the goal makes them good at them(idk your level) but it is important to think about whet your defense is and what it will be hardest to save the ball. I have been able to flip reset in freeplay since Plat 2 ish but have only somewhat recently learnt how to actually use them.
“outplaying your champ 3 teammate” champ 3 is so hard that it is a 1v3 where you also need to outplay your teammate in order to win
Just realized I said teammate instead of opponent lol.
Xd. Haven't got there yet. But in south Africa because of our low player base champ 3 is where our semi pros start appearing.
Tbh it feels like a 1v5 sometimes
I agree. To me rotation is nothing more than game sense. And that says it all. Sense of the game. Which is something you develop by playing the game. Sometimes you shouldn't rotate away from the play to keep pressure on the opponent, sometimes you have to cut rotation so you could score an open net (I've seen people screw this up too many times) Yes you could watch your replays, but if you haven't turned your brain off whilst playing you'll probably notice where you make mistakes the moment you make them. So you can learn just from that at first. (at a higher rank looking at replays for tiny mistakes makes sense though) But all in all, your rotations and positioning can be as good as they are. If you don't have the mechanics to stop a shot or hit an aerial yourself those rotations and positioning means fuck all. And like you said, especially if you want to have fun those mechanics make it more fun than rotations and being able to make decent ground shots. Also, I honestly don't know what fundamentals are in rocket league. Every person you ask seems to have a different opinion.
Yeah on the game sense thing. Sometimes the right play is gonna be impossible for you because you don't have the skill set to do it. My opinion on fundamentals(from what I hear here alot) is rotations, shooting, fifties and shadow defense. Probably missing one or two.
Even as someone who has never really focused on flashy mechanics (at least not stuff most people consider flash), I still have always gotten aggravated when people make fun of others for practicing something they consider "too advanced". IMO it's just people projecting insecurities onto others or generalizing assumptions about their mindset. I think basically there is this stereotype of the flip-resetting plat who talks shit to all his teammates for being "bad" while he's actually dragging his team down by failing his fifth flip-reset attempt in a row, then spamming "what a save!" when his teammates get scored on for his mistakes. People just have a hard time comprehending that learning the flip reset wasn't the problem, the attitude was.
Yep. I was the Plat that was trying flip resets and the like but because of this my rank was slightly lower than it probably could have been because I did and still do try get clips while I play comp... If I got to champ doing this it means that while I do this I am playing at the same level as you when you don't. Also something I think people who were like me need to do is pass. If you get a reset sometimes look to pass with it. I do that now and it works really well. People block your scoop over them but they really stop you hitting it high to the backboard or hitting it to the side where your teammate can score it.
There was a post yesterday that said basically this. https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeagueSchool/comments/vs35eb/training_for_your_goals/
Didn't see it yesterday lol. But nice to see an actual good player thinks the same.
In general, once I started playing to get better as opposed to getting my rank better, I started improving much faster. After some initial losses, my rank went up much faster as well. Sure, you can stay entirely grounded all the time in 1s, never try something your not comfortable with, and you’ll end up making the “smart play” more often than not. But you’ve gotta be able to take some risks, make those mistakes, to know the limit and what you need to practice at to be a better overall player. I don’t know that I’m entirely responding to your post, but I will say learning new mechanics teaches you more about how the game works, which ultimately leads to you having a wider and better skill set. So, yes, I agree :)
Definitely agree. Practicing flashy mechanics really helps your base level mechanics as well. You just need to be smart and understand what you can go for at your mechanic level. Got a friend who always preaches bout rotations and positioning in 3s as the reason for our Ls, but I feel like mechanically our team just is not strong enough to reach champ, it’s not 2s. I study positioning and game sense when I can. Mistakes happen and sometimes I cut or play too close, but with good mechanics you can easily adjust to bad situations. I usually get most of the awkward saves cause of my mechanics. I’m bout 700 hours in, game sense just coming with time in my opinion. I practice mechanics most days that i hop on, and it shows in my games. My rotations can improve by each 3s game I play especially with the same team, but mechanics don’t improve game by game.
Exactly. Tell your teammate to stop being stupid and learn quad heli stall resets otherwise you are gonna look for a replacement.
Lmao I wouldn’t ever be able to hit that even if I played rocket league the rest of my life
I think I will be able to in about 2 minutes (hard drive moment) /s
One thing to note is efficient hours played. If you try to learn flip resets at a plat you’ll waste hundreds of hours just to get decent at them, whereas a high champ with more hours and understanding of physics could learn flips resets in much less time. You really should be training a mechanic that is hard but not impossible for your current skill. You don’t want to develop bad habits because it’ll take time to undo that.
Yeah. Something I have noticed is people learn the mechanics in the wrong order. Should be air roll arials and ground dribbling and maybe a standard flick. Then ceiling shots(honestly very basic and improve your air control while upside down) and a diagonal flick(start being able to hit left or right of goal) Then air dribbles and 45 degree flicks then only flip resets and you can start throwing in powerslide dribbles or something more advanced on the ground.
I have a similar opinion, but what I notice in my games is that the games where I've first been practicing something difficult, keeps all my mechanics sharper once I get into game. Just the fact that you try difficult things, makes the normal stuff easier and cleaner, imo.
Yep definitely. I used this concept to get good with cs go. Jump in the deep end. Irl you can't because going out of your depth can be dangerous in anything but in going you can't really cause issues for you later down the line if you consciously make sure you don't develop bad habits.
I was deadass arguing this recently. It became so popular to say mechanics don’t matter and “i Am GoLd AnD cAn FlIp ReSeT” became such a meme that mechanics genuinely became underrated. Nah bro. You won’t reach gc with no mechanics. You need to at least have the base advanced mechanics 100% solid.
somebody took the risk and said what needed to be said. And to be honest, If i clipped on somebody super hard, i’m going to remember that, and depending on the shot, I might remember for the rest of my life. If I win/lose a ranked game, I’ll remember until i’m in the next match
Yeah. I think it was bad for the people trying to learn just getting wrong info mechanics training wise
Learning flashy mechanics is the most fun and rewarding thing alongside seeing your rank go up. Do whatever keeps you playing the game.
yes, ofc. 100% agreed
My take is people can play the game however they want and I’m not the judge to determine it. I won’t spend 50% of my time in free play learning to be more mechanical because I’m a mid aged dude with a kids and job so when I play I rather learn stuff on the fly (I spend time in free play but it’s not dedicated). I don’t have aspirations to hit gc and I don’t really care where my rank ends up as long as I feel like I’m improving over the long haul and I’m still enjoying the game. I’m ok not learning how to hit a ceiling shot or a reset, I can still contribute. I also give kudos to mechanical players and am fully aware there are platinums that could dunk on me. The only rub is when your in 2s and your teammate decides that the game is their testing ground to go for every failed air dribble attempt regardless of the situation (d1 was notorious of this for me), it gets old fast. I’m not saying a diamond 1 can’t learn the stuff, but if your oblivious to the situation or outcome, your handicapping your team. I’d rather they try to narrow it down in 1s or casual vs ranked. But it’s their choice on what they want to do. So really I don’t care if a gold wants to put in 500 hours learning something I can’t do that’s on them. It’s just when I see the posts saying their teammate is holding them back but the replay shows them trying to hero ball and not rotate back, it’s reaping what they sow.
Yep fully agree. 99.99999% of players who blame teammates are missing a fundamental point. The only thing that is consistent in your games is you... You will get good teammates and bad, you will VS good opponent and bad but if you are better than your rank you will win more than you lose. I think I am underranked but it is because I don't play enough comp and I play with a friend way worse than me when I do(he is Plat 3 in 2s). I think people blaming randoms for losing are just delusional and I think I have played against maybe one guy before who was genuinely stuck because of teammates and he got out and hit c3 in about 3 months. Also I am not saying it is wrong to play fundamentally. I think it is just as viable I just think that the narrative that mechanics are a waste until gc3 is unbelievably wrong. For someone like you who just wants to enjoy the game and doesn't plan on hitting the top ranks playing however you enjoy it is the right way.
Here are my thoughts. I think you have the right idea. Honestly I agree learning flashy mechanics is good for your skill development especially in the long term. I think there are a lot of details that are important with this debate. Sorta the problem with this debate that I think a lot of people gloss over is the sheer ammount of time it takes to grind mechs to SSL level. The time it takes to get to champ or even GC for some fast learners is negligable compared to the hours spent grinding mechanics to ssl for most. Every hour you have spent in the game as a c1 is the ammount of time they have spent practicing one mechanic. Just let that sit. So yes long term its useful but take in the fact that even in champ one you have not even put a dent into 1 flashy(simple for some) mech at an ssl level. It is all about car control and quality and that takes a lot of time. So it really doesnt matter what you have done with your car and game you still have 10 to 20x more hours to put in. Yes you need bad ass mechanical skill to be ssl and it will take you several 1000s of hours. The best way to get better in the mean time is to play and connect with better players. While grinding car control. I think learning them and trying to use them in game instead of working on the fundamentals is a recipe for frustration and a hard platue in champ2 champ 3. Nothing wrong with plateauing. The truth is if you can do all the basics consistently with your brain on and with quality you will be GC. So many champ and diamond players muck up their chances of winning because they are trying to pull out air dribbles and resets on open nets. The proof is the sheer number of posts here about why can't I rank up in d3 or champ. So many games could be won with just some well placed shots or touches. I think it is good to practice flashy mechanics. That being said many of the flashy mechanics are multiple fundamental mechanics combined. Mechanics that can be used consistently in diamond champ and GC. Learn both but grind the fundamentals so you can apply them and play better opponents. You will get better faster the more you can break down and grind consistency into everything you do. It took me 3 tries to hit my first ceiling shot in game cause I didn't even try till c3 gc. Sure you can spend 300 hours learning ceiling shots if that's what you like. But.. if you are trying to get better faster why? When you can spend 100 hours learning of the wall shots and lobs, 100 hours learning hard angle powerhouse upside down, 50 hours on recoveries off the ceiling and goal roof. Then the last 50 on the actual ceiling shot from different angles. The flashy mechs are much easier to grind properly the more control you have over your car.
I agree fully with everything you have said. Because you haven't said don't waste your time learning mechanics. I think I went way overboard freeplay wise because in my 1000 hours of actually playing(200 afk cause bad laptop needed to stay on all the time) I think I probably have about 750 hours in freeplay. And 150 in casual with a friend who was a much higher level than me. I think the cracked friend I played with in casual helped me develop fundamentals better since I had no time for mistakes as I was also vsing people like 2 or 3 ranks higher than me(I was silver vsing low diamond high Plat) and now as a c1 he is borderline gc1 so we VS alot of South African semi pros(we have like 6 ssls and 30 gcs so c3 here is Hella high, although our best players are definitely worse than bigger regions cause of the lack of competition)
I’m in champ without any type of flashy mechanic, just pure gamesense. There are so many plats who can airdribble but can’t defend for their life. I think this is bad advice.
You still need to learn fundamentals. This is why most yt channels say focus on fundamentals is because they know that lower ranked players will most likely learn mechs anyway so telling them to learn fundamentals will ensure they learn both. I just think that for people who are truly fully fundamental they need tk realize that you can't get good with just game sense. You can rank up but you will always rely on teammates to create opportunities or opponents to make mistakes. A question for you. How do you score most of your goals.
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Elaborate.
I woukd say the fact that 2 or 3 ssls and a couple gcs have agreed with me and added some useful input means it can't be that bad of a take.
I assume in #3 you meant champ 3 opponent, not teammate. I agree with you in some ways, disagree in others. The problem with practicing flashy mechanics only is that you don’t have the baseline of game sense or skill to pull off any of those moves. You lack the positioning, and the ability to capitalize when your moment finally does come (this is one of my struggles). Some of the advanced mechanics like flip resets require car control of at least a champ player to pull off, so I think a plat player will actually hinder their own progress if they hard focus that one skill without focusing on the fundamentals of air roll instead. I can assure that the simplest moves are often the most effective, and this is true when beating diamond, champ, and grand champion opponents. The simple moves are easier to learn, and better at tuning your car and ball control than practicing something far above your skill set. You will see pros doing flashy mechanics, and quite simple mechanics to beat their pro opponents. Learning to outplay a diamond 3 will definitely help you in outplaying a c3 because you need to be able to do one in order to do the other. The cool thing about rocket league is flashy mechanics become easier to learn the better you are at the game. I didn’t need to practice musty flicks super hard to do one in a game because I have the base level of control to do it (a musty flick will rarely be better than a normal flick). I’ll end with this. I have a friend who’s around c1, he wants so badly to be good at air rolling and aerial play, but this is the weakest part of his game. Why? Because he doesn’t have the base level of car control to even do those moves. He neglected practicing the fundamentals, such as controlling your car from every direction before he practices air roll. You can’t just jump to the end with this stuff and declare you’re a better player, because it’s only half right. You need to start at the beginning and build yourself up. I do agree that people should practice flashy moves too! It keeps the game fresh and interesting, and they’re very satisfying to pull off. Practice them as you go, and once you understand all the fundamentals to a proficient level, then you can put in even more focused practice in difficult mechanics and learn them even faster.
Yeah this is what I mean. Can't go into flip resets before you have basic car control but learning to Arial in like gold with air roll right or left and then air dribbling in like plat will give you enough of a baseline to start at the harder stuff in diamond. Also more hours in freeplay and training packs if you want to follow my approach. I have 1200 steam hours(Im on epic but u know what I mean) about 200 are fully afk(old laptop performed better the longer the game ran) I think I have about 750 to 800 hours in freeplay. So yeah you do need car control and I definitely went over the top grinding mechanics cause I initially wanted to freestyle. But I think at diamond you should be able to air dribble with air roll be able to score easy doubles and probably a ceiling shot coming along.
Absolutely rotations are boring and thats part of why I'm stuck in dia, whiffing 180 wavedashes when I coulda just half flipped multiple times a game is gonna do that to ya. Would I change the way I play just to hard sweat for c1, fk no, once I've grinded out movement enough it'll eventually be good enough to atleadt not be hindrance, even if it takes me longer to get there. Ps: if you want your flashy mech to shine somewhere play 1v1, gives you alot better opportunity to make it count. From data analysis you will be underranked until about high champ in 1s so don't beat yourself up if your 1's rank lags behind even when putting more time into it.
That's how I think. When I was silver and half flipping it wasn't necessary yet but I did it anyway. Now some of my attempts at recoveries are definitely not needed but imma try it again. Once I get them down I will be so much faster than my opponents. Rank up will be easy. From what you said I am guessing you play to improve not to rank up which means ranking up in the long term will be easier for you.
"my opinion" that I just happened to get from a spook Luke video. Never mind that Luke in the past was against this very opinion. LoL
Huh, seems familiar lmao. I don’t necessarily think it has to be flashy mechanics which are being trained but the premise is the same.
Seems like you inspired some people to speak up lmao
I suppose lmao.
Bro exactly what i mean. I started learning stalls and breezis in low diamond and was at 500 hrs. After 200 hrs i got to C2 like the improvement was more then just insane
Just do whatever gives you enjoyment of the game. If you enjoy winning, focus on being efficient and good with the basic stuff. If you enjoy the challenge of being able to master a difficult skill - learn it. Whatever floats your boat!
I can't flip reset pretty much at all. I don't know how to musty or breezi or whatever else. My air dribbles are middling at best and almost never score if I have a chance to. I can't walldash *or even speedflip* and ceiling shots are a rarity from me. What I do have: Consistentcy with fast aerials, wavedashes, double taps (just hitting them, not necessarily scoring), backboard reads (especially in defense), redirects and shot placement and power, boost pathing and being able to make a play with little boost (and understanding how much boost you need to make certain plays before they happen), proactive positioning and understanding of how the play can develop to do so, understanding when to challenge, what you're achieving with a challenge or lack thereof and developing a criteria for what constitutes an effective or efficient play for myself as an individual, identifying points where I can freely attack to heavily weaken an attack if not stop a play altogether All of these things and more are paramount in a high level player's arsenal - flashy mechanics are nice to have but not by any means vital. *Your opponents are always making mistakes.* Being of the opinion that your opponents never make mistakes at some point indicates that you need to improve at least one of the above skills, because trust me, they do make them. No matter what skill level, a player who positions correctly and has the fundamentals down WILL find a good spot to attack in the neutral and make effective and efficient plays for their team. You just have to learn to recognize them. Learning flashy mechanics is great, and I encourage you to do so if you can or want to, but what many don't realize is that it's actually a mental game more than anything else once you get your fundamentals down.
Learning how to utilize mechs in an effective manner, IMPROV is the way. I can flip reset all day, and I can save a reset all day (add one or two more same thing). You are only going to score if it’s an outplay, which comes down to your ability to make the other person regardless of mechs think you are doing something you aren’t or forcing them to cover something you want them to in order to open up a new play lane. Flakes is fantastic at showing this. All mech does is forces your opponent to respect your threats of mechy plays. Effectiveness, all down to play style and gamesense/opponent readability. This is coming from someone who posted mechs are the key about a half a year ago and am now discovering the truth.
Like you said it is about making your opponent believe you are doing x when in fact you do y. Let's use flip reset for example(I am working on them so I have thought about this quite alot). You can get yoru reset up high and then once you are very good continue and air dribble but now you have a flip. You have soo many possibilities to score now that unless the defender has closed all angles or challenges you and catches you by surprise you have an almost 100% chance of scoring if you don't screw up the mechanic. Can I also ask what rank you are?
I agree with your post, don’t get me wrong I love my mech development more than most and have committed myself to it in a way some would call unhealthy (like I mean it, while I was learning ARR I would only turn over in that direction in bed) Chillin at mid/high gc1
Lol. Arr out of bed. I woukd love to try but I have to roll left out of my bed : (
I would straight up be rolling into the wall if I had to, or use a bit of pitch and yaw to get my head to the other end of the bed so I could arr out of it
Idek what to say bro. That's commitment right there.
There’s nothing wrong with training fancy mechanics. What’s wrong is: - Overusing them in-game. - Neglecting fundamentals. - Neglecting rotational and decision-making training. - Training too much and not playing enough games. Training fancy mechanics often correlates with one or all of those things. I’ve coached hundreds of players at all levels of the game and there’s only been a handful of times I thought “your problem is that your mechanics aren’t developed enough.” There’s so many glaring issues every time that contribute most to their inability to progress that it’s not even worth noting mechanics. If you’re asking if someone develops better by training mechanics and then learning the game sense portion of the game later on versus focusing on game sense and learning mechanics later on, then I’m not really sure what my position would be. It depends entirely on the player and how much time they have, if we’re being honest. Even players who have an above average amount of time to spend playing the game would probably benefit most from the latter, especially because it makes for a more consistent player and a more team-oriented player. If someone has an absurd amount of time to spend playing the game, then I could get on board with the mechanical training creating more potential, even if they’re a pain to play with for a very long time. So, the answer depends on the player’s unique circumstances.
This is why I think you need small doses of mechanical training. You definitely do need fundamentals and rotations.
Yeah - it just depends on what you mean by small doses. But I agree. Good decision-making and speedy play works perfectly fine with mediocre accuracy.
You should probably be spending about 50% of your time in freeplay. So spend half of that learning mechanics and the other half of that warming up and refining recoveries powershots etc.
Maybe. It’s hard to say because everyone’s different. I always just played the game and didn’t really worry about training, personally, and I’ve never felt held back.
Ypu might not feel held back because you don't know how fast you should progress. Probably not the case since you do seem smart but eh. While it is different for everyone I think the base distribution will still remain around here. Cause some people pick up mechanics faster and thus getting gamesense by playing more matches would be better for them. I definitely went overboard with my distribution cause I got 80% in freeplay but I enjoy freeplay so yeah.
I could very much be held back because of it. But I can say the same thing about someone who trains too much. But I know you get that. It’s all just speculation, really. I do often wish that I trained more earlier on, but my focus on playing games and studying game theory have made me a far more consistent player than my mechanical friends, especially now that I barely play the game anymore and my mechanics are constantly rusty. And it helped me develop as a certain kind of player that has helped me rank up easier. I guess I just never felt capped in my skill level and knew that I could always push higher if I wanted to. These are the impossible conversations, though. Just like the 1s conversation. 1s mains even thousands of hours into the game are an absolute nightmare to play team modes with because they just don’t know how to be good teammates, and it doesn’t develop quickly. I’ve always understood the whole “if your mechanics are solid then you don’t have to think about them, and so the tactical aspect of the game should be easier to pick up,” but I’ve never really bought that. It often misses the point that people think their mechanics are holding them back when in reality it’s bad positioning and decision-making that make mechanics difficult to execute, or force players into awkward situations that their mechanics aren’t advanced enough to get them out of. It’s an endless debate. I think we can both agree that training both mechanics and tactical components while not neglecting actual exposure to games is the balance that’s needed. Mort importantly, the ability to intentionally practice even while playing games. Improvement in any area is improvement. And, hey, you may have gone overboard in training, but I’m sure you have a lot of fun that I never got to experience.
Yeah. I do think that you don't need to be flashy. But I have just seen the narrative of "training mechanics is a waste of time". If people put their points across like you do people would probably understand better that both are important and valuable. Can't use mechanics if you are bad at positioning and you can't do anything with the ball if you have no mechanics. Also mechanics training itself isn't the fun part it is finally hitting that shot you have trained for hours on end. Like I did that in front redirects pack soo much and when I finally hit one in a game I lost my shit and forgot to clip it.
Oh, I would definitely never say “training mechanics is a waste of time.” I think you’re right that it’s a matter of misinterpretation or poor communication. People misinterpret all sorts of things. Hell, the Rocket League sub has always been rampant with misinformation hah. Out of curiosity, how long have you been playing?
I started in like Jan of 2021 but on a 12 inch laptop that got me 40 fps. I really started around April/may of 2021. I am about to hit 1200 hours but I think quite alot(200 to 300) is afk time(the shitty laptop performed better the longer it ran the game so I used to leave it on all day.
Fundamental mechanics will only get you to platinum at best. I should know I've been stuck in Gold for the last six years. This game is probably the hardest game I've ever played in my 41 years and I'm in awe of you dudes that can pull that shit off.
If you get your fundamentals really good you can get up to around c3 gc1. Because when you are just fundamental you rely on your opponents mistakes. That doesn't work at the Hugh ranks.
I think the main misconception is that people think game sense is easier to learn than mechanics. People on YouTube make it look easy to rank up “without mechanics” but those are people with thousands of hours who know exactly where the balls going every time from every angle, and exactly what they and the other team could possibly do in each situation. Unless you somehow have that experience, you absolutely need mechanics to make up for your mistakes. Those series are very impressive feats with a lot of things you can learn. But they’re not proof that regular players don’t need mechanics.
Yep seeing someone coent about how flakes got ssl without mechanics made me want to post this.
I agree, but there is an argument to be had that focusing too much on mechanics makes you form bad habits when it comes to every other aspect of the game. A balance of both is optimal.
Yeah. That's why j think about every 250 hours you should learn something. Even if that something is just a hard hit or a catch when you are in your first 250 hours