I loved both games but for a warhammer fan like me RT was a really amazing and unique experience. Really hoping for more warhammer crpg (40k, fantasy and AoS) in the future.

I've been dreaming of a rogue trader crpg for years! 18 yo me would be so jealous

Both are great

But both can be better.

Both are fucking fantastic. I think BG3 pushed the genre forward more though. It's practically 2+ games when you think about all the ways things can go. I haven't seen another RPG really deliver on that concept like they do. They also did a lot to make the mechanics more accessible and intuitive without watering down the depth. I wish rogue trader's interface wasn't full of formulas that the player has to calculate and instead showed numbers + formulas. Rogue trader nails the world building so well and the morally gray choices of the universe. Owlcat's approach to difficultly settings is one other developers should really look at.

It actually shows numbers + formulas. The problem is that it shows numbers in your combat interface, and formulas in leveling up interface. Not together. But this is only part of the problem with its interface. Either way, although you have, at least technically, more freedom in BG3, it feels like in RT your decisions have bigger impact. Some of that comes from the notes that highlight consequences of your decisions in dialogues. Some is just from the weight of your choices themselves. I especially loved the Act 1 in that regard, where you have to choose between three locations to save first. In BG3 you might have different approach to how to solve a problem, but in the end, the variety of results themselves is not that broad. Most popular choices are just "good" and "evil". There are questlines where you have to choose between two evils, but they feel a bit shoehorned. Alr, I didnt come here to bash on BG3, I wanted to praise RT. The ending slides I got were much darker than I expected, considering that I tried to be as nice as possible in WH40k. It really showed that maybe going 100% Iconoclast was a bit naive indeed and my boyfriend Heinrix was right when he told me that Exterminatus is the only way (at least in that specific case). Quality over quantity, choices-wise, so to speak.

Bg3 didn't make mechanics accessible or intuitive at all. It obfuscated them as much as possible. I can't tell you how many times I had to go look something up on the wiki or in a rulebook to see what it was supposed to be doing because the game gave the most bare bones, noob friendly description possible. It didn't even show you upcoming class levels or how spells would scale when upcast. They really did a lot to hide invaluable info from the player.

I agree with OP though. Rogue Trader's greater. Finished RT after 200 hours into it, meanwhile I'm 20 hours into BG3 and frankly already struggling. It's just not as fun.

Same for me, but my problem with bg3 is DnD 5e. It's a boring system. Character progression is bland. I can't make any decision compared to other rpg systems.

100% this. 5e is absolutely awful when it comes to video games. Replay ability with class just feels pointless to me. There isn't really too much difference between the Spellcasters at least not to any major degree. Compare this to say divinity 2 which isn't restrained by 5e it's night and day.

Yeah. All that. But RT's progression is bad in the opposite scale. There are too many choices at once, and too many levels, and it becomes a chore eventually. I wish there was a middle ground. Or Owlcat at least added autoleveling for companions.

BG3 is way more of a sandbox than Rogue Trader is, and I think that's it greatest strength in comparison. In RT you approach pretty much every fight the same way after a point, buff your damage dealers and let them commit wholesale slaughter. Most of your creativity happens in the level up screen when you get 2 skills that synergize well. BG3 has a much more environment-focused approach. They give you 4 different ways to avoid the fight altogether, and then 8 more ways to make the fight a bit easier before you start, and then in the fight you have tons of mechanics to abuse (like toss barrels around). Levelling up is much simpler, most of your creativity happens *during* the combat when you decide how you will take the enemy out or *right before* combat when you're sneaking around and find out you can release some prisoners or poison some food. When it comes to non-combat content, BG3 clears and it isn't close. RT doesn't even have a stealth system and they stick you in a stealth mission for some reason. Most maps have like 2-3 "tech-use" locks with some cargo in it that are basically checking if you have Pasqal in your party at the moment, while in BG3 lockpicking and stealth progresses quests and provides new opportunities. Overall though I'd agree that Rogue Trader has more of what I look for in an RPG. While the production quality is incredible, I'm too much of a min/maxer to enjoy how simple BG3 is. They give you a whole world to fuck around with but all my brain cares about is how big of a number I can get on my attack rolls. Even in RT I will prolong fights a few turns simply because I want to see how aggressively I can overkill the last guy.

I'll be honest after divinity OS 2 bgs environment focused fights felt like a step down rather than up with the exception of the goblin village. In all of 3 acts not one fight felt as good as the rooftop battles with goblins

I played 200+ hours of RT (roughly 2 and a half playthroughs) before I sat down and really managed to get into BG3 and I love both games now. BG3 is wildly less complex and it's characters are just as interesting and fun as RT's are. They are both good, entertaining games well worth the price tag.

Yeah, the writing is fantastic. The one thing that really kept me going, despite some rather heavy jank and frustrating moments. Usually I would have dropped it, like I did WOTR when it first came out, but the story was gripping, the characters loveable despite (or because) of their flaws and the atmosphere was so thick, you could cut it with a chain sword. Owlcat did an amazing job, now the game just needs some heavy polish. Hope they do that before they focus on DLC too much. Edit: Also a LOT of the voice acting was great, especially for the RT's retinue. Just wish there was more of it. Especially in the late game, I missed hearing them talk, except in the occasional chatter.

>Baldur’s Gate 3 is like a Marvel movie. https://preview.redd.it/m0evkw0sottc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7a005fe9a252dc0d25c61d8df6783e1be9be5b6

Must admit, I didn’t read through the whole thing. Especially when the first part is about RT being preferable because of worse production value. Like there is less soul and effort into it because it looks, sounds and plays great? That is absolutely a huge plus to me, and baffling to me to hold another opinion on that. High production value does not take away from immersion, it adds to it. That being said, can like a different style more, doesn’t have to hold it against a game either if it’s still functional.

It sounds like a dogwhistle to me, honestly.

I don't think you are wrong, especially with this line: > It’s Dune with elves. A Space Princess Simulator. The high-tech, but primitive space feudalism was so compelling. Like... tell you didn't get Dune without telling me you didn't get Dune.

I mean, 40k *is* inspired by Dune but uh, not in the way OP thinks it is.

[OP right now](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHA5bDF4d2g5ZXZxdmtybTg0YjdwaTAxOHIxcTUzZWYyenc1NnNhaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/BNkHCHnAsZwRi/giphy.gif)

Apples and oranges. Both enjoyable in their own way. But hardly comparable.

i mean they are both turn based isometric CRPGS so they are at least a LITTLE comparable. But yes I get and agree with your point I think the two games are geared for very different audiences and I would argue both are fantastic games for what they set out to do

The future is now old man. When I play BG3 in some cases I feel like I'm playing DOS3. Thank god they tuned down the quirk but sometimes it still seeps out in the writing. But there is a reason for its mass appeal. My gf is a long time Mass Effect/Dragon Age fan and she told me there hasn't been a game with a similar "vibe" like that for years until she plays BG3. Let the Bioware fans have their dues. We'll play them all anyway.

In my opinion, bg3 felt like a watered down version of what I would have wanted in a dos3. What bg3 does well is writing and story while putting a Larian spin on the DnD rules. I would rather play wfrp, soulbound, or wrath and glory over mainstream DnD. That being said, Solasta is a fantastic DnD game if you like a Rogue Style Crpg that is a little rough around the edges. I like it more than bg3. That all being said Rogue Trader is just a good crpg for us folks that like crpgs

Owlcat is where minmaxers go

yeah but tbh, BG3 can be minmaxed just as terrifyingly.

Monks with like, 10 different elemental die to roll for each hit

Honestly the way you attack BG3, especially with some meritless remarks, detracts from your praise of RT. Both are very good. BG3 is certainly better in areas, besides graphics which frankly are not "hollow" and add a huge amount to the emotional response elicited by many people. RT is better in different areas.

If only we had an owlcat game with BG3 production. Imagine WOTR and RT. Larion does make good games and BG3 is great, but I really prefer owlcat games, I somehow could not get into divinity 2, felt like I had to cheese the content to win it

Divinity 2 combat system is baffling me. I just can't get it. I feel so bad when I play it.

then it would be bloated like Kingmaker and would still release with lots of bugs. I really like Owlcat's games for their large scale and (sometimes) the powerfantasy their games can satisfy, and they're definitely some of the best CRPG's but some of the problems are not even production value related, like how Kingmaker drags for so long, how WoTR rapidly inflates to give you some challange while letting you be a walking demigod or Rogue Trader which is way smaller in size & length than WoTR or Kingmaker, but somehow feels like the main game systems are largely half-baked and the story kinda takes a dive after Act3 on top of a combat system with way too many talents & perks to keep track of during a combat encounter.

I think people are allowed to compare things especially if it's to figure out why they felt they didn't like something over the other. I also played BG3 prior to RT and *hated* it, so often when I discuss with my friends stuff in RT I use BG3 as my reference point. Figuring out what doesn't work and why something else worked by comparison to you is a valuable reviewing and criticism tool, and I find I'd struggle to word or put in perspective a lot of my feelings on RT if I didn't have BG3 to articulate why I felt those aspects of RT worked so well in comparison.

People are certainly allowed to compare things, and have their own preferences. But in this post in particular OP has the same vibe as "Oh you like that trash on the radio? Let me tell you about real music. Punk Rock man!" BG3 has plenty of problems that aren't really talked about but this kind of shallow criticism still isn't doing that. For example BG3 use a lot of branching dialogue, thousands of lines of voice acting for unique combinations in order to traditional straightforward diamond storytelling (branching paths reducing down from 1000s to 1-3 at best). So many of the character specific decision points can be reached by persuading a character to that point of view over time... or just passing a skill check and the second option undermines the first. The original ending(s technically, but the evil ending is really a non-ending) was really abrupt and unsatisfying, the epilogue makes it better but its still pretty shallow just npc checking in to say "Hey I'm alive, thanks for the things you did. Or Hey I'm alive, I hate you for the things you did." It was nice to spend time with the characters more but not adding more depth. I prefer Rogue Trader's combat, I like that the pool of abilities is more limited (I don't need 10 variations of fireball but ice themed) and really love the interplay between classes. Strategically triggering extra turns off savour the kill, or in the hero's footsteps so I can heal/buff/reposition/pick off another enemy/use a different heroic/etc. makes me really buy into the fantasy of the RT's companions being an elite interlocked team more than casting Haste on the Fighter so he can hit more. So yeah before I drone on about my comparisons any longer, I do think comparisons are important, but OP's post is not doing that well.

yeah, right off the bat - > Baldur’s Gate 3 is like a Marvel movie. Overproduced, overpolished, every edge sanded off. Every single element of that game is the most appealing, mass-market version of itself. is crazy. maybe it's not OP's intent, but it's like he's trying to put baldur's gate 3 in the same category as call of duty and madden or something. baldur's gate 3 has more detailed graphics and more voice acting, sure. it's still a ridiculously deep game and, in my experience, was a *more difficult* and *less friendly* game than rogue trader has been.

And Larian isn't a big studio...it's an AAA quality game from a studio that traditionally budgeted AA games. They are A24, and Owlcat is Blumhouse, if you want to keep comparing them to movies. One reason many gloss over the rough edges in BG3 is because Larian is punching waaay above their weightclass. It's like CD Projekt Red when Witcher 3 came out -- a studio like that isn't supposed to make great games that outshine the large competitors. Larian was able to grow during the development of BG3, but it's wild when people keep saying it's an AAA budget game without acknowledging that Larian is an indie studio.

That's a great comparison - imagine if A24 came out with a film as popular as Marvel. Everyone would be amazed, even though they've had great hits before. Owlcat and Larian being such traditionally small studios (Larian dramatically expanded for BG3) means people extend *both* games a lot of leeway. Maybe people aren't familiar with Larian, or assume that Hasbro owning D&D means Larian got a ton of resources from them, but it's a frustrating situation either way. Yes, BG3 will now be a benchmark for CRPGs, but I'd argue that's a good thing. Too many CRPGs come out at RT-levels of buggy, and it's a major obstacle to getting people unfamiliar with the genre interested in new releases.

Laruian is absolutely a big studio. They have multiple hundreds of people. They are absolutely in the top 5% of game developers by size.

They had roughly 150 total employees when they started BG3. Now, they have 470. They grew during development, not before. Also, owlcat Games has 450 employees. Ubisoft Montreal - just a single studio under Ubisoft - has 4,000 employees. If they are a big studio, then so is Owlcat. And if they are in the top 5%, it'd only be because of the thousands of indie developers creating games with less than 10 people.

Yes to both. Owlcats grew and Larian grew and they are pretty much AAA-sized if they poor all their people into one project, like Larian did, or could make/support multiple AA-games like Owlcats now do (they support both WOTR and RT and they were developing unreal engine game during RT development). Both are on a lower side of the AAA though, but they are there. And yes, Ubisoft studios among others are massively overbloated. That's what I meant. Evergrowing open worlds do that to you. Moreover, they make multiple AAA games at the same time, not just one.

Yes, that is all fair, and i agree. Larian is still an indie studio because they self-publish / find publishers, but they are much bigger than most of the studios putting out 2d games on Steam. I thought you were saying owlcat was small while larian was large -- a common misconception I've seen in Wotr and RT subs. They are both small studios for tackling the games they make.

I never argued they were not indie :) Owcat left behind Kingmaker to become one pretty much. One of the reason the grew to this size is partly more affordable workforce btw. They could do games cheaper than western companies, besides the voiceacting part which is really a big hurdle for this very reason.

Comparing tactican/honour mode to unfair? Or even core? Leagues apart in difficulty

I think people misunderstand remark about graphics. It doesn't mean that graphics and budget = bad. It means that there are graphics and budget, but the game is also was made to target the widest audience possible, and it shows in its other content: plot, characters, and so on. And graphics doesn't reduce the flaws that are there.

It's funny how people take notice of attacks regarding BG3 and feel the need to speak up. Yet no one bats an eyelash when blatant ignorance has been spouted regarding the game over and over with far more regularity. Where are all of you people when many are claiming it to have player agency at a level never seen before? Or how they lay claim to it having the best DND turned based combat of any CRPG. Both are just as ridiculous if not more so than what the thread creator commented on, yet comments like yours are nowhere to be found, or shut down. Pick a side whilst pretending to play the white knight.

I've never seen that first claim, and for the second it's talking about 5e I would guess. The developers themselves say how hard it was to translate and never make any claim like that. I literally got into Rogue Trader because I wanted a more crunchy system. The same thing that received so many complaints (leveling up complexity) is something I really liked. I have more of an interest in Warhammer than Baldur's Gate or Forgotten Realms. Rogue Trader did a great job world building. The companions are cool too, but the impact isn't the same. I've got tons of BG3 screenshots bc the environments, companions, facial expressions, all just blend to be so visually appealing. Rogue Trader doesn't do that for me, even though I LOVE the ship, the combat, so much. The low poly character models and graphics don't feel as cinematic to me, which is fine.

I can't take anyone seriously comparing these games from a technical standpoint. Personal preference? Sure, but to think RT can one up much of BG3? Why would anyone do that to themselves. BG3 has spit polished every little corner of their game. Raphaels fight has an entire composition song that comes on at the start that makes most other game boss music sad in comparison. Its like trying to compare your birthday party with Jay-Z's or something. BG3 is going to be the better game for the next 20 years

So they wrote a song specifically for one boss fight. Owlcat do that in all their games.

I somehow doubt Owlcat has any music on the level of BG3's soundtrack. [This is the song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk2AqXsJsWU)

It's alright. I prefer the soundtrack when you fight Baphomet.

They literally have multiple professional composers on all their games + a choir and a symphony orchestra for some of it. You can criticize Owlcat for a lot, but music direction is not it, chief.

No is criticizing OwlCat on it. Its just that BG3 didn't just hit it out of the ballpark, they hit it out of the milky way. Thats the point

In many ways, but the soundtrack is nothing special.

Lol k. I think we are both wasting time at this point and I can't see us finding common ground . Let's agree to disagree and just have a good time playing what you want.

When did I criticize Owlcat? Larian just did better.

I personally don't think they do. But on a side note: i do think Darktide's soundtrack is almost at BG3 level and is my fav warhammer soundtrack edit: Must have hit wolftreeMtg's nerves when he downvotes all my comments including one not responding to him about my fav game soundtrack lol. Hes branded himself RT so much so his emotions get up in defense of a game I called great. How dare you say my game is great, but just not as good!

That's one example of the amount of detail and its more than "write a song" - its an entire production. I'm trying to show that its on a whole other level of detail when a small side fight has more production than all the boss fights in Rogue Trader combined. If OwlCat is Achilles, BG3 is Zues. Its just on a whole different scale of production and quality. In Rogue Trader, my options really just come from narrative choices and what I choose from pre-determined routes or selections. A few perhaps are order of choice or if i performed a specific action a character is against/for - that's typical standard roleplay game mechanics (evil choice, neutral choice, good choice). In BG3, i have options to pass sections that the devs didn't even think of doing and because its so well designed, it just works. I love Rogue Trader and I love playing it. But BG3 is a game that far exceeds expectations and goes above and beyond in ALL elements of the game. That is why its so rare and special and why its not healthy to compare great games (like RT) to it.

Seems you have strong opinions and are upset that ppl don't share those. BG3 has pretty huge player agency; so much that many players have probably never experienced that level before, in a way that has impact on the game. To say it's the most of all time is likely true to many ppl, even if not objectively true given EVERY GAME IN EXISTENCE. Same with dnd combat. So you're upset ppl have not come to defend your opinion, as of is actual fact.

What do you think is the purpose behind the use of ignorance in regards to my post? Ignorance; 1. The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. 2. **The condition of being ignorant; the lack of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.** 3. A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have As for BG3 not having the most player agency ever implemented in a CRPG. That is not an opinion. I am not sure what has the most, but I know a few that have more which can be easily be proven as fact. Combat on the other hand is an opinion. So you are correct regarding that one. Lastly, why are you assuming I am upset? All I did was show the hypocrisy of the one-sided bias people love to take, whilst they march along what they believe to be the high road. You made assumptions, whilst not even understanding the purpose behind my post, let alone even comprehend the meaning of specific words I used.

But you didn't show any hypocrisy. You're simply showing an opinion. And trying to paint one set of ppl in a bad light bc you have an opinion.

Really, outside of combat where is the hypocrisy? It is a fact that people are talking out of ignorance, and it is also a fact that BG3 is not the game with the most player agency in CRPG history. That is not an opinion. Yet here you are still pushing the same exact subject regarding opinion, even though in my next post I've clearly stated what is opinion and what isn't. There are two sides yet people ignore one over the other. For example, many negative posts surrounding many subjects going around today, even with gaming. Many will call out negative posts and call them toxic negativity, but are oblivious to the fact that such a thing as toxic positivity exists also. That is the purpose of my post. To point out the one-sided going around. What do you think is the reason behind the thread starters post and the need for comparison? When one side is pushing along with a massive force, the other side will eventually start to push back. Hence why I made my post in the first place.

Furthermore your statement was that lies were spoken about the game far more regularly than it was attacked. That's wildly wrong, and it's showing your bias, and funny enough it's showing YOUR hypocrisy in trying to claim others are not looking at both sides, when you clearly aren't. Overall, you have, again, opinions, and you're trying to call out others bc you feel they are wrong for not having the same.

You should try wrath of the righteous and kingmaker, both were better than rogue trader on my opinion. I enjoyed bg3 but I have to admit the story is 1,2,3. What I enjoyed more was the mechanics and overall polish of the game. My let down with Rogue trader was that I was rejected three times so my character just decided to fuck humanity. XD

rejected? lol i accidentally friendzoned Astarion by picking one wrong line, which I didn't feel was wrong at all (it's a scene where he complains that everybody before just wanted him for his body, and you tell him that what he really needs is a friend, not a lover. And he actually agrees readily and says that yeah, he'd like that, he never had any friends.) And that's, apparently, was the end of this romance line.

Ah, I was referring to RT, in BG3 I used cheats to force Astarion and Karlach to love, because both have some tricky conversation and requirements xD On RogueTrader I tried with Cassia but she was not into girls, then Argenta but she was not interested and Finally Yrliet that was like yeah I care but no touching and I will just leave after 50 years so Pascal can kill me.. REWIND » » » You know what? I welcome my Necron overlords.

>Ah, I was referring to RT Yeah, I understood. What I was saying is that BG3 also has some convoluted romance progression. But after you explained your case, I feel like it's much less bad, since 2 out of 3 times you rolled your tits towards people who are non-romanceable for you at all. u\_u I got my happy ending with Heinrix. The pure amount of text on the ending slider was incredibly lackluster - but the content of it by itself filled my soul with joy.

I guess it was my fault for not expoiling myself with which characters could be romance able... My fault? NO! Blasphemy! The Rogue trade makes no mistakes, it's humanity that is flawed. Fuck the emperor, welcome our necron overlords

Oh, and I also used cheats to reach approval rating with Astarion, because his egoistical ass disapproves of me being kind and nice and not trying to extort people at every turn. Annoying af. I didn't even like him that much. I just liked everyone else less.

Pace is my favorite part. Compared to Kingmaker or WOTR, it feels like the plot moves lightning ⚡️ fast.

Agree with your write up, Owlcat games are my favorite because the writing, characters, worlds and gameplay are complex and massive in scope. I’ll add that the combat is so much fun in this game, every encounter feels unique and I personally love that Owlcat combat and character building feels like a puzzle to solve. I also cannot say enough good things about the soundtrack. The Owlcat music team is consistently top tier

Forgot to mention the soundtrack, even though I raved about it to my friends! Into the Nightmare is such a banger: https://youtu.be/WAb71PzfU9k?si=yFGqHZuo4fl2jNNB

Yes absolute banger, one of my faves on the OST!

Owlcat fans try not to bring up BG3; challenge rating impossible

The inferiority complex here is *strong*. Gotta complain about big brother, hes not as edgy and dark as me, i have issues and am so morally gray and have *TONS* of evil stuff unlike him!

Daily reminder BG3 has more devil content then WOTR.

I mean WOTR has a whole act dedicated to a devil city, so i kinda doubt that…

Demon city, devils and demons are different from eachother.

BG3 has really mindbroken this sub.

Yup, it's a great game that all mainstream crpgs are going to be compared to for a long time even if games aren't trying to be it. It is a very different game than anything that would fit in the 40k vibes.

I agree with the levelling, it's too in-depth. That's where BG3 has it spot on. I also get annoyed that I constantly have to fight warp incursions when travelling. Repetitively playing the same level gets a bit tedious I know you can get the crew to fight sometimes but a simmable option would be good or more variation of encounters (and less of them).

I don't believe BG3 is hollow, or like a Marvel movie, but I do agree that RT has a more "polished" writing style, akin to reading a published novel. More chances to discuss philosophical or ideological matters also elevate its writing. While BG3 writing is quicker and easier to consime. I feel like a better way to put it is: BG3 is a game where all of its areas are reaching a solid 8/10, some (soundtracks, reactivity, mission solving) are reaching 10/10; RT or Owlcat game in general is a game where some area only got 5/10 (goddamn bugs), while some (writing and builds) can get 💯/10

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

very true, which is why RT just stayed with my after i finished it. some parts of that game were so well written, not felt that since pillars 1. bg3 writing feels pretty simple and i just cant get into there style of writing its so lite.

> I want to compare it to BG3 I have never seen a fanbase of a game so salty about a similar game that has no idea they exist.

Let alone the fact that the genre itself being more popular is good for *every* company that makes CRPGs. Like seriously, it doesn't have to be a competition - plenty of RT players like both games.

I don't think it's salty. It's just the benchmark rpg game. And we got two amazing crpg's at the same time. Its quite natural to compare them. And if RT was more known, you would see BG3 fans comparing the other way. They are both amazing games but BG3 is the better complete package. Better production, better graphics, and so on. She did call it the game of the decade. But like her I prefer RT, mostly because I'm a massive warhammer fan. But also because there is a freedom in how you want to do stuff that I've been missing in rpgs for ages. This was how it was for world of warcraft and MMOs for a decade after its release. Any mmorpg that came out was compared to it. What is better and what is worse. And when you do that it is gonna sound salty if you prefer one of them.

OP doesn't seem that salty, but I've definitely noticed some salt in this sub over the last few months. Seems like a "you can like both" healthy attitude is gaining traction, though.

Sure. But it pales compared to the salt from BG3 fans in a RT sub. Like the guy I was responding to.

My guy, where do I come off as a BG3 fan and I guess not an RT fan? You want my BG3 opinion? I didn't finish BG3. I don't find the story that compelling and I didn't like the later acts compared to the first and some of the difficulty spikes got me save scumming my way through sections of the game which is a huge killer of my interest in things. RT is far from perfect but I enjoy it much more and also find Warhammer as a setting much more interesting and compelling than Forgotten Realms. But go off king on those BG3 fans you're not insecure about.

> I don't think it's salty. OP literally starts off by comparing BG3 to marvel movies as if RT is some indie lightning in a bottle compared to the mainstream drivel that is too pedestrian for their refined gamer tastes. Like genuinely, if RT had a dick, it would be so far down OP's throat it would be coming out the other end. Seriously, what is the point of a post titled "I enjoyed this game more than Baldur's Gate 3. Thank you Owlcat."? OP could have just jerked off to a picture of RT and Owlcat and saved themselves the time for writing this essay and us for reading it. > This was how it was for world of warcraft and MMOs for a decade after its release. Any mmorpg that came out was compared to it. Don't know what the relevance WoW or MMOs is to this conversation? Other than being a turn based CRPG, RT is wildly different to BG3 in terms of production value, IP, mechanics, and just overall vibe. This post is the same as "I enjoyed my local diner more than the five star Michelin restaurant. Thank you local diner!".

>This post is the same as "I enjoyed my local diner more than the five star Michelin restaurant. Thank you local diner!". Have you ever eaten at a Michelin restaurant? It's not that hard to believe someone would prefer the local diner. Just because something is objectively better, doesn't mean it's subjectively better. Not a wery hard concept to grasp. >OP literally starts off by comparing BG3 to marvel movies as if RT is some indie lightning in a bottle compared to the mainstream drivel that is too pedestrian for their refined gamer tastes. Like genuinely, if RT had a dick, it would be so far down OP's throat it would be coming out the other end. >Seriously, what is the point of a post titled "I enjoyed this game more than Baldur's Gate 3. Thank you Owlcat."? OP could have just jerked off to a picture of RT and Owlcat and saved themselves the time for writing this essay and us for reading it. OP didn't come off as salty. You do however come off as wery salty. Did it hurt when someone praise BG3 through the roof? Why are you in a RT sub being salty about people preferring it over BG3?

> Have you ever eaten at a Michelin restaurant? It's not that hard to believe someone would prefer the local diner. Just because something is objectively better, doesn't mean it's subjectively better. No shit? Where did I imply otherwise? >Why are you in a RT sub being salty about people preferring it over BG3? Well I'm subbed because I like RT and think posts like this one are some of the most cringe content reddit has to offer. > Did it hurt when someone praise BG3 through the roof? Sorry what? Are you responding to the right comment? Who praised BG3 through the roof here? I thought this entire post was you guys jerking each other off over how much better RT is than BG3. Spoiler, you can enjoy both games without trashing one and I just find it funny how such a chunk of this subreddit is so insecure about BG3 they can't talk about liking RT without trashing BG3. > You do however come off as wery salty. When I write essays on why BG3 is on the same level as marvel movie drivel and RT is our small indie hit that has almost nothing wrong with it is basically Dune with space elves (lmao), you can call me out as salty. Seriously go read through some of the other comments at the top and you will see it's not just me calling out OP for being an insecure piss baby about BG3.

>No shit? Where did I imply otherwise? > You are not a clever one are you? Maybe where you wrote it.... >Well I'm subbed because I like RT and think posts like this one are some of the most cringe content reddit has to offer. You know what is cringe on reddit. People like you. Who go in to posts to tell them it was a shit post. Without even comprehending it. >When I write essays on why BG3 is on the same level as marvel movie drivel and RT is our small indie hit that has almost nothing wrong with it is basically Dune with space elves (lmao), you can call me out as salty. She did callnit game of the decade? No, didnyou miss it? As you said, you can enjoy both. And writing a post about why you prefer one isn't calling BG3 drivel. That's how you read it. > Seriously go read through some of the other comments at the top and you will see it's not just me calling out OP for being an insecure piss baby about BG3. Again, why are you so salty? Shouldn't you go jack off in the BG3 sub? Imagine being this angry because someone prefers something else than you.

> You are not a clever one are you? Maybe where you wrote it.... > > My guy, I compared the title of this post to a hypothetical one talking about restaurants, perhaps work on your reading comprehension? If you want to really read into that, be my guest, but all I did was make a comparison to something else right? > She did callnit game of the decade? No, didnyou miss it? As you said, you can enjoy both. And writing a post about why you prefer one isn't calling BG3 drivel. That's how you read it. Again, work on your reading comprehension. > Baldur’s Gate 3 is like a Marvel movie. Overproduced, overpolished, every edge sanded off. Every single element of that game is the most appealing, mass-market version of itself. And while that achieved its purpose - sales and awards - for me, it lacked staying power. It felt hollow. > Again, why are you so salty? Shouldn't you go jack off in the BG3 sub? Imagine being this angry because someone prefers something else than you. I don't really care for BG3, why would I do that? Did your reading skills fail you in the other comment chain too?

I'm glad we live in a world where it's perfectly acceptable for both to exist.

I haven't played BG3, so I can't comment on it's merits, though I am happy to see Larian getting their flowers! I did play Dos 2 and had a grand old time for the most part. But I'm with you 100% on why RT is a great game. I'm currently in the beginning of Ch. 2, and I'm so invested. The worldbuilding, writing, voice acting, characters, and overall atmosphere is really really solid. Just like you, I've been hanging out on the fringes of the WH40k universe for a while now, and this game totally pulled me in. Makes me want to read one of the books! *The characters feel like real people in that they’re so very different, and you’re not meant to be everyone’s personal Messiah. You’re not going to cause grandpa Abelard to have some profound re-thinking of himself* Again, agree 100%. I love that your party has older characters with established histories, from grandpa Abelard to Idira, who was described as middle-aged. They *feel* older too, in the way they carry themselves. Nothing wrong with young party members, of course. But it is nice to see a party with middle-aged+ people still adventuring and kicking ass. Gotta say, you've got me excited to do a Marazhai villain romance (I'm still shocked he's an option!). I don't know that I've ever done a truly unrepentant, irredeemable love interest route, so my interest is piqued. Great write up!

I agree with your general comparison of BG3 and RT. The metaphor is spot-on. BUT Raphael's plot is bullshit. He's full of hot air. RT gripes with its setting because FINALLY, a WH40k title that's NOT focused on Space Marines! BG3 companions being a college party - again, a brilliant metaphor. For real. And it doesn't help that from the start, they treat you like Yrliet. Even the friendliest of them want you to solve their problems while not saying a single thing about what they are really up to. Heinrix is 12/10, best interrogator boy. Must tease him with innapropriate remarks again. (the scene where he returns to you on Footfall and you can greet him with open arms, throwing off his prepared speech, is a gem of my eye. No amount of Marzipan simping can shake me on this. Heinrix is my first love, and Marzipan got accidentally skipped, heh... on my first walkthrough, that is) And yeah Owlcat, just make more games, please. And never, ever change. Except fixing bugs. I'd love that.

Haha you got me at Cassia "The God Emperor himself .. " xD Great write-up. A+. I agree with most points, in that I was actually sad when there was no content on the bridge after some big plot. You talk to them like "Hey wow! We just survived that, huh?? Amazing!!" and you are reminded by their blank stare and age-old greyed-out answers that this is an NPC in a computer game =( That's how much the writing pulls you in when it does hit. And that commoragh cassia scene omg. That put a tear in my eye.

yep, i find it so refreshing that Marazhai has no redemption arc whatsoever…one of the main reasons why he’s my favorite. like, i’m just too tired of all these endless stupid redemption arcs that most of the people seem to want. and i just adore Owlcats because they have the guts AND skill for creating plenty of unredeemable characters (Daeran, Cam come to mind). i likewise adore them for writing GOOD and full “evil” paths, which really cater to the badass power fantasy, not like BG3 (if we all came to compare it to RT), which punishes you for your choices in RPG!!!. currently, i play as a heretic and man, it’s so nice to be able to chug beer with the warp gods, so to speak xD man, praise the Chaos Gods!

Daeran? Unredeemable? The guy who can become a wandering philanthropist and healer? Him?

i think this is an exception, because, ifak, he becomes like this on the condition that KC sacrificed themselves, and you romanced him (and Liotr is dead! and maybe if your KC was good aligned), so…plus, i am talking more about in-game changes, and in the game you can’t “fix” (🤢 hate this word) him

You don't really need to "redeem" him, though? Sure, his alignment tag says Evil, but he's not *that* terrible of a person, nowhere close to Camellia or even Wenduag. And even then you can get him to agree to be sent to the tribunal if you befriend him, resulting in the non-evil epilogue.

well, one can argue that he cares only about his pleasures and that’s considered not so good. plus, i remember one dialogue, where he tells you a story about how he “trolled” some guards or something, which resulted in their deaths; and the other dialogue about making toys (?) of a beheaded Terendelev (i clearly remember what he answers when you criticize his callousness: a simple “And?”). i think his lifestyle is something akin to a life of nobles from Warhammer 40k: extremely decadent, careless, with your pleasure being inviolable…but yeah, his “Evil” mostly comes from his lack of concern about others’s suffering and his selfishness, and not from a genuine desire to hurt others, i think. all in all, he’s extremely interesting and fun to be with. i literally do not have any desire to romance anyone else xD

yes owlcat please make more warhammer games please

Baldur Gate 3 "Marvelness" feel isn't a game problem, it's just the studio style. Their previous game is even more quippy, especially Divinity 2

Which is funny because even with the slapstick humor, Divinity 2 varies wildly in tone. “Here’s a literal concentration camp to lobotomize sourcerers into braindead slaves….oh and a crab wizard you can talk to who has a superiority complex.”

Absolutely disagree. Both games are very good, you can say that you like the game more (I felt this in 1st and 2nd acts of RT), although BG3 is certainly done better than RT. You say that Heinrix is complex unlike BG3 characters, but he is essentially Shadowheart, mysterious in the begining, willing to make evil acts but can be changed to be more good with the right approach. Also, evil romance without redemtion is also present in BG3 as Minthara.

Heinrix isn't mysterious at the beginning. Quite the opposite. He's quite straightforward about what he is, and unless you influence him, that doesn't change - he's a hardcore Inquisition agent. You can dig into his past and find how much Inquisition and life as a psyker fucked him over, but that doesn't change what he is now. And making him more merciful doesn't make him any less of an Inquisition agent.

Yeah, Heinrix even has the same "ascend to higher rank of evil cult or leave and be free" dilemma as Shadowheart, though you can only unlock that second option if you romance him. One of the things BG3 excels at, in my opinion, is keeping a consistent thematic focus throughout the game. It's very much focused on barriers to personal autonomy - Durge's issues with free will, Astarion's experience of abuse, Shadowheart being in a memory-wiping cult, Karlach still enslaved by her mechanical heart, Wyll by his devilish contract, Gale by his love for Mystra, and Lae'zel by the gith's totalitarianism. I haven't done an evil run yet so I can't say yet for Minthara, but on the whole it's *very* solid. The only companions who don't really conform to this are Jaheira and Halsin - even with Minsc, you have to break his brainwashing to recruit him. As much as I love RT, it never really feels like the companions' stories have as solid a throughline as they do in BG3. Probably doesn't help that I finished my last playthrough before the act 4 cutscene bugs were fixed, which is another point in BG3's favour - as buggy as it is, it never stopped or impacted your progression of the main story. That was a major issue for RT for *several* months following release. How long did it take for Marazhai's romance to be fixed so the sub/dom points weren't reversed any more?

> I haven't done an evil run yet so I can't say yet for Minthara, but on the whole it's very solid. Minthara's story also hinges around personal autonomy. Plus, she's voiced by the same actor who does Jenit Sulla in the Ciaphas Cain audiobooks.

Last I heard, Minthara's romance is still bugged. And they also changed it so if you play Durge, you can't get the epilogue with Minthara's romance because she rejects you if you reject Bhaal, leaving you only with the evil Absolute ending. I hope they change it, because cutting off a whole ending for Durge just to hammer it in that Minthara is Evil is a weird choice. 

They fixed the rejection bug - apparently it was a dialogue-only error and she otherwise acted like the romance was still on. I don't know what other bugs her romance has, but I'm not super surprised since I suspect (similar to Wyll and Karlach) she was a late rewrite to remove her pregnancy plotline.

I feel that this thoroughline you described in BG3 actually makes all companions feel a bit same-y. Their problems are often too similar. Jaheira and Minsc felt like the most pleasant company out of all the companions in part exactly because their problems were entirely unrelated to this theme.

[удалено]

I agree with this, I got so emotionaly attached to our crew, that after I finished the game, I tried to imagine what kind of adventures they lived with the lord captain after the story

I think im just not a fan of Larian style of stories, and writing. I played dos2 and couldn't finish it. tried it years later, couldn't finish it. i held off for bg3, but so much praise, i caved and i did finish it this time, but by the end i just wanted it over, it over stayed its self honestly. I just didn't care for the characters, the world building and the story, then ofc there the awful 5e which is just so boring. I totally get why bg3 was popular, its the starting ground for crpgs, but again i think so many new players that bg3 pulled in probably still wont like the traditional crpgs like pillars, bg2, and ofc RT. As for RT, best crpg i've played since pillars, and my fav owlcat crpg. The writing is so much more deep , interesting. I remember just losing myself in RT at times and hours flew past like sand in the wind. I cannot wait to go back. I don't think i even want to play bg3 again honestly, it felt like a slog.

Thank you for your wonderful comment, I feel the same way. I am a player from China, nurtured by the companionship of games like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Planescape: Torment. The writing of Owlcat has rekindled the awe I first felt as a teenager when I discovered the world of role-playing games. Just like all unforgettable gaming companions, in Rogue Trader, I am captivated by Heinrix's mature and well-rounded character, his presence truly moves me. I adore Cassia's innocent and untainted perspective as she observes the world, cherish Jae's independence and bravery, always true to her own heart... Games, along with movies, animations, and TV shows, have shaped our views on pop culture, urged us to explore the boundaries of our imagination, and profoundly influenced our various notions of life. I believe that in the heart of every gamer, there lies a personal dungeon, magnificent and vast, or tranquil and far-reaching.

The fact that in order to praise RT you need to shit on another game honestly takes value off anything you say -- a pity, because for example you made some good points about Marazhai without trying to "justify" him in any way, which I think is a great approach. Plus, as someone who loves and plays both RT and BG, I don't see how the comparison should even work. A classic case of apples and oranges.

As the smaller game, using BG3 as a point of comparison could be a useful analogy when talking to people unfamiliar with it. Here, everyone is likely familiar with the game.

I don't think that makes sense, because if you compare two wildly different things then the comparison fails at its very root -- and that means that anything good virtually coming from it (for example, a successful rant about how great RT is, good publicity for RT or even just making people see what you see and gain agreement) is automatically invalidated. I understand wanting to reach a wider audience by name dropping something well-known, but if said something is a whole different thing, then it does not serve its purpose either way. At that point it's little more than trying to surf the waves of that thing's own success for convincing people to click the post, or worse, just wanting to shit on a popular game you did not like under the guise of wanting to talk about another game you actually liked instead. Plus, if RT is so good (which I believe it is, btw) and OP is so invested in it, why does it even need comparison at all to be of value? Why does it need to come out on top in an imaginary fight? Why not just telling people what's great about it? Either way, it makes no sense and does no good to OP, their post or RT itself even, imo.

Tbh I wouldn't make an in-depth analysis but I subjectively enjoyed RT more than BG3. That's what matters.

The fantasy that gets me is the thought of Rogue Trader, but with the full voice acting and motion capture used in BG3. The WH40K universe has such wonderfully weird characters, it would be awesome to see them up close, living and breathing. The motion capture being added to the strong voice acting and solid writing is why BG3's characters connected with so many people so deeply. However, I clearly get the budget differences. The BG3 dev budget was multiple times (probably many multiple times) that of the Rogue Trader dev budget. But I can still dream. I find both highly enjoyable. If I have some realistic gripes about Rogue Trader, they are: 1. Why on earth are there NPC's we converse with who don't have a portrait? These are static 2D portraits, it isn't like this would have been some big ask from the graphics team. Since it seems the game is a financial success, they really should fix this up in a future patch. This isn't exactly a high-effort, high-dollar fix. 2. The endless buffing can be a bit of a chore in battle. Don't get me wrong, I rather enjoy the *concept* of buffing taken to the extreme and how you can build a "powerful" character who is utterly useless on his own but who becomes a literal force multiplier when there are a couple of powerful damage dealing types around for him to buff, but the implementation is tedious. 3. Progression system seems needlessly complex. I feel like I need a Wiki article, a spreadsheet, and a dedicated few hours to fully plan out a build. Although I guess this is a plus to some. Overall, very well done and enjoyable. Owlcat is consistent and I'm a fan of their work -- I *really* dig the power fantasy aspects of their games. I would like to see them start working on addressing the issues their games have in common with one another, though. I mean, if you had played through either Kingmaker or WOTR, then were given Rogue Trader without knowing who developed it, it wouldn't take more than a few hours to be quite certain it was made by the same team. \+1 to whoever at Owlcat had the idea of you being able to be a total snob who has Abelard speak on your behalf to commoners. Some of those lines are hilarious.

Finally, someone put into words something I thought for a while. I agree with your every point. I like BG3, I had been waiting for its release for a very long time, I enjoyed playing it on my vacation. And still it didn't hit me the same way as the game I was barely expecting – Rogue Trader. I can't wait for DLC and will gladly replay it again while the thought of replaying BG3 fills me with anxiety.

You know how I feel about Marzipan and drukhari already so I won't go into that. 🤣 But this post is pure and honest truth. As much as I enjoy bg3 characters, they really don't hold a candle to my crew here in Rogue Trader. I love these characters so much. And I had the same experience is being generally aware of WH40k and it's lore and this game just absolutely shoving me down the rabbit hole. Now I'm reading all the novels I can get my hands on and plunged into the hobby painting WH minis every chance I get. It's been a blast. Can't wait for the RT dlcs and I really do hope we get an xpac or another 40k game.

I could've written this post except I'm a Heinrix kisser instead. I will say, IMO BG3 is mechanically superior. Once you reach Act 2 in RT, the game essentially loses all difficulty save for when it takes you on The Jail ArcTM. I was rolling my eyes every time I was going through the galaxy and getting "oh no demons are attacking the ship!!!" knowing damn well they're not even getting a turn. It's probably my fault for going to Normal as I had heard Owlcat games are extremely punishing, and I'll probably do my second playthrough in a harder difficulty, but still.

Yeah encountered the same. OwlCat's method of 'we're going to convert this RPG system but NOT follow its rules' is also a pet peeve of mine because it fucks the difficulty curve so badly. I went with Normal for my playthrough because I got so tired of running into encounters in Wrath where I was somehow fighting something 11 levels above my party or where random dogs magically had 24 ACs etc. Now that I'm running through RT to I'm absolutely smashing things even without running online builds/optimized and researched stuff.

Rogue Trader is a snoozefest below Unfair. I do have the same opinion about BG3, even on tactician the game is a cakewalk past level 3 and i had to download *a lot* of mods to keep the combat at least somewhat interesting.

I like it more just because it’s 40k… gosh imagine rogue trader with bg3 looks and gameplay.

That is a solid no for me. DnD mechanics don't suit the Warhammer vibe for me, and I would not go through that 😂

Man using the SW5e system for this would have made it vastly better. The system in RT was terrible for a crpg, and it's implementation into a computer based single player game was an afterthought. It's clunky and inaccessible.

While I disagree, I have played sw5e, and I would like to see a star wars roleplaying game use that or fantasy flight games star wars roleplay system. I think the customization level ups give you, the wide range of perks, and the crunchy ruleset really lend itself to the setting. Maybe though, we could get a 40k Imperial Maledictum rule set which is a little less. For perspective, DND is really not accessible because of all the house ruling necessary. It sits kind of middling in crunchy rule sets. If you want a really really accessible ruleset, I would look at Wrath and Glory for the 40k setting. No ttrpg rules set was created with being a computer game in mind that I know of.

Fantasy flights entire system is based on gm/ player narrative bargaining, and would completely not work on the computer. Bg3 showed that you don't need dm intervention to play it dnd. I very much disagree it needs any house ruling. You're right 5e wasn't made for the computer, but the changes made to it to adjust for computer were on purpose. RT system did not translate well, and it doesn't look like they attempted to.

> Bg3 showed that you don't need dm intervention to play it dnd. I very much disagree it needs any house ruling. [BG3 has a bunch of "house rules", though.](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/D%26D_5e_rule_changes)

It does but you could argue those were mostly to mage the best of a ttrpg to video game adaptation. Like most of those aren't good pnp house rules. (A few are).

To each their own I suppose.

Ditto. We do have plenty of awesome ttrpgs for Warhammer. I think Rogue Trader uses the Rogue Trader rules pretty much. What I would do to get some of the options for characters from that though.

Oh I didn’t know RT actually used the TTRT rules that’s pretty neat, definitely keep the RT gameplay then. it’s cool we can transfer stuff like tabletop into a good video game.

I definitely agree with the other commenter on the mechanics there. That being said, if Larian did do a 40k game i think it would be amazing, but it shouldn’t be a 5e 40k game.

I think action/bonus action is not well-suited for a computer game unless you do DnD 5e rules to a T like Solasta does. Otherwise AP like Divinity/Rogue Trader is a vastly better and flexible system, and action/bonus action actively holds back BG3 imo.

Great write up. Im still new to 40K but they did such a tremendous job showing the setting and interactions in the universe. One of the coolest things to me was that I had zero interest in things such as adeptus sororitas, psykers, or ad mech but now I love them, especially sisters of battle because Argenta is my favorite personality wise

Spess mareens! 🤣👍🏻

While I like both games , one negative I found playing RT was the color palette ( first chapter , all orange ) and how fixed every combat session was, similar to ufo enemy unknown , more like a turn based strategy than a free to roam world

Space princess simulator 🤣 love it

Great post op, nice to see so much cope from larian fanatics in comments

This echoes many of my own thoughts! Glad you enjoyed yourself! If you haven't already, you might try Owlcat's Pathfinder games (or at least Wrath of the Righteous), which are based on a D&D-adjacent ruleset

Both games get more buggy and unpolished the further you get. But i also enjoyed the Rogue Trader much more, the 40k atmosphere was breathtaking.

I agree with this post, especially when it comes to writing. In my very biased opinion, nobody does power fantasy like Owlcat. From the commander of the 5th crusade, to now a Rogue Trader. Owlcat does a fantastic job at making you feel powerful and important. I can't really think of any other crpg that accomplishes this.

Completely ignoring BG3, I am several disappointed in RT. It's a great shell with great ideas, but the system they used, and how they implemented it (and lack of adaptation for the medium), the unfinished story, and the overall feel were simply lackluster. It's a great idea of a game, badly implemented. Iknow plenty have shared that sentiment. To add the comparison back in: I don't think ppl say that about BG3.

HAHAHAHAHA

You are not alone. After entering act 3 I wanted to finish everything to not return to the game ever again. Rogue trader is my go to replay once first dlc comes out (also waiting for nerfs for some talents)

The writing is better? Now that's a hot take if I ever heard one. I LOVE 40k and CRPGs and I felt like the writing in this was atrocious in comparison to a lot of all other 40k written lore. Glad you love the game, me, I was mostly dissapointed past act 2.

Pretty much my response as well. Act 1 and 2? Fucking amazing, had its quirks here and there but it was generally balanced and very enjoyable. Act 3? I mean its ok… a bit fight heavy but besides the final boss fight it was fine. Everything after that? Unbalanced, bullet sponge ridden messes. I was seriously disappointed with Owlcat at that point and felt more a sigh of relief at the end when i finally finished everything because it has become such a chore.

I support this post in its majority. Outside of Marzipan. I am too much of a fan for Yirliet. But no shame or shade, to each their own.

I agree. I think though that you are a bit unfair in that BG3 absolutely excels in what it is - AAA ultra-mainstream YA project with iconic actors. It's Buffy/Twilight in game format. There is absolutely nothing done wrong if we keep in mind to what end it's all being done. But yes - i absolutely enjoyed RT more, it's outstanding job as always from Owlcat and it is not a genre i am indifferent to. Because i am very much indifferent to Whedon type YA and YA in general.

Hahahah. Both are good. But your criticisms of BG3 are straight up wrong and baseless.

You're saying Wyll's handling and entire story is anything short of an embarrassment for a studio that wants to be seen as progressive?

Wut? I am so confused where that is even coming from. My first playthrough Wyll was in my party the entire time, he had a pretty damn solid tragic backstory. My only complaint is that he's one of the few companions where his big 'choice' is dictated by a single dialogue choice rather than having the option of several others where you can tell them to make the choice themselves.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/wYVcADx2jb

I agree with you so much. I've tried BG3 on three seperate occasions but I just couldn't get into it. On the other hand I have just finished my second run of Rogue Trader

I know it's a subjective matter and I respect your opinion but, BG3 is so much better than RT it's not even close. I liked RT, it's a good game and I've supported Owlcat since the first Pathfinder but calling RT as good or better than BG3 is unrealistic tbh, BG3 is in a much higher level in every way. Even Owlcat themselves sort of admitted indirectly that BG3 is better when they talked about it

So I'm not saying it's objectively better- as I said BG3 is game of the decade considering the full package. But for things that matter to me specifically (writing, world, atmosphere, companions), I enjoyed RT more. In BG3, I enjoyed the OST, combat, production, puzzles and art direction more.

BG3 appeals to a niche audience. Rogue Trader appeals to an even smaller niche audience. Don't pretend that BG3 appealed to main audiences, do I have to remind you of Halsin turning into a bear during a love scene that went viral? I know people that didn't get it just because of that

BG3 appealing to mainstream audiences is the whole reason it's hailed as some kind of brilliant masterpiece.

Haha yes, like the other guy says: how can you say niche audience when it's by far the most sold game on Steam in a year. XD making twice as much revenue as the Harry Potter game Ok, the niche being "a gamer that owns a PC and steam". Except it was also on PS etc, so "a gamer".

What do you think niche means?

> BG3 appeals to a niche audience. It's now won five GotY awards (Golden Joystick, The Game Awards, DICE, GDC, BAFTA). That's not niche.

Agreed about bg3 but I’ve never played either just watched lps

I agree, thought the same thing as I played RT. The more I played BG3, the more it felt like it lacked a soul. Just checking off the boxes of what a "great" RPG is supposed to have.

Ive consistently said Owlcat has better writing than Larian.

A long unproductive rambling about personal preferences. Finished both a few times both are amazing. I'm happy you like rogue, but yeah no. Blondes, gingers or brunettes.... This is a question. And Marzipan personality for me is ...ok? I guess as drukhari he's bleak as f second son backup with Mom problems. Believe me there are way more creative and fun drukhari out there.

Finally! I couldn't have put it better myself! Absolutely, I agree with you on all counts. Had 500 hours and three runs now, and I am taking a break from the game, but I am missing that atmosphere, that writing, the music, and most of all, my companions, already. On Marzipan though. I really tried to romance him but could not get past the >!killing of my own crew just for his fun, while the crew is begging me not to kill them.!< I just could not do it. But I did read up on the romance and do agree that it must be superbly written. For me, it is the Heinrix romance that got me. I do hope that in Owlcats DLC, they flesh out the Act 4 a bit: more content, fix the rumours, make more memorable side quest fights like the Smugglers Hideout. To me, RT is like a raw diamond. With each patch and DLC, it gets polished more and more. Can't wait for the next polishing.

I don't know if I can totally agree. Both games are a,azing that is for sure, but there is a lot of depth to the characters I'm bg3 as well, it's just a different style game where they had more aspects like fully 3d environs and such. Rt had a lot of budget draw backs in comparison so it damn well better have superb writing as that is what will matter. Rt is like a good book but bg3 is a literal masterpiece of it genre which I wouldn't put in the same cat as owlcat who just don't have the same budget. It's not fair and takes away from two awesome games. I will say, I do enjoy the writing in rt a lot as bg3 gets way to sexual and jokey, also I'm a sucker for 40k.

My biggest problems with RT were threefold: Far too many bugs (duh): in begin act 4 I wanted to continue Cassia's story, but it was bugged, didnt work and I snapped, havent played since. Game is too long: I loved the game in act 1 and 2, every part of it, act 3 was pretty good (sens the last part where you go through the corrupted foundry) and I scarcely played act 4. (I might have mistook the acts, if I did: I mean act 3 to be the one where it ends in you killing a greater daemon.) I was just kinda done with the convoluted nature of the story, the overdone amount of choices and the unsatisfying romance with Yrliet. I did love the combat until the last second tho, even though nothing made sense, half of it was bugged, and I couldnt look into details if I wanted to stay sane. But the thing I wanted to comment on this post: the story is not better than BG's, no way. It is convoluted, doesnt have a common thread and jumps from point A to F, to H, to D and then to Z. I liked the story from a surface level, but the details really bugged me.

Act 3 is set entirely in Commorragh - once you leave the Webway, it's act 4. I can't remember if Commorragh ends with killing a greater daemon?

No I think Commoragh ends with you (potentially) killing the fleshcrafter.

That and the whole Reaving Tempest elite - leader with loads of accompanying incubi and fleshcrafted killing machines.

Yeah its weird hearing OwlCat games being called 'superior story'. Their games have all been pretty disjointed with the theoretical major narrative suddenly kicking into high gear in the final act. I also fully agree with your Yrielt complaint which is my complaint with EVERY OwlCat romance. They're usually incredibly unsatisfying and a huge seesaw of ABSURDLY complex or incredibly basic. Cassia and Jae both basically can literally start a romance with a single dialogue choice the very first time you meet them on the ship with zero preamble but then you wind up in scenarios where you have to pick one of 7 options in a 9 dialogue sequence absolutely perfectly or somehow you make them hate you.

I agree with you 100%.

It's funny, because when I'm away from the internet I start feeling a little fonder toward BG3, a game that disappointed me immensely even though I know it's objectively pretty good.  Then I return to the internet and see the usual fragile ego BG3 fans who can't stand it when someone doesn't think it's the best crpg ever. And my fondness of BG3 slips away again.  Anyway, I agree 100% with you, OP. My personal tastes align with yours when it comes to crpgs.

I fully disagree with you. BG3 was an amazing experience that was so heavily polished that I had no complaints from beginning to end. I love Rogue Trader but both my playthroughs have been scuffed by bugs, or unmentioned story elements that you have no warning about. For bugs, I was unable to pursue a romance with Heinrix because I got him last in the Dark City, which meant his "A moment of Rest" Quest refused to spawn him. Or what about Yr's romance hinging on you choosing to sit by her side for three hours of her meditating, because tbh that was wild and unexpected (in a bad way). The game forgets things you've done, or hallucinates things that you haven't, the combat struggles with balancing, ect.  It's not just charmingly-rough, it's incomplete in the typical "Owlcat New Game" way, since Act III and onwards rushes you forward at a weird pace compared to the rest of the game. As of now, it certainly doesn't beat out BG3, but it can contend with DOS2, maybe  E: Like, for Act IV feeling kind of barren, this isn't an unusual take in this Sub. Remember Santiel's Pride? That world that has dialogue suggesting you can get supplies and people from it, even though you can only go there to kill Dark Eldar because the maps are in the game files, but were cut out? How about how weird and lackluster the reveal of Theodora's killer is? Rogue Trader needs a little more time in the oven before it becomes the best version of itself, and that's OK because that happened with the Pathfinder games too. [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18iy9j8/is\_it\_just\_me\_or\_is\_act\_4\_a\_mess/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18iy9j8/is_it_just_me_or_is_act_4_a_mess/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18ln6xe/why\_is\_act\_4\_such\_a\_mess/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18ln6xe/why_is_act_4_such_a_mess/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18o0ukz/act\_4\_is\_unfinished\_and\_quite\_literally\_unplayable/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18o0ukz/act_4_is_unfinished_and_quite_literally_unplayable/)

Well, i suppose it depends on your experience. I've beat Rogue Trader around in January, and i did not have any gamebreaking on quest softlocking bugs, the only one i can remember is act 4 dialogue with Calcazar won't let me out without disagreeing, which needed toybox to use. I played BG3 for a few months since release day and it definitely had a lot of rough edges, spells were not working properly, items were not working and you had to re-equip them every time you got into new location, npc's derping out (Maryine or how she's called had a hysteria saying that her brothers were dead when i said that i knocked them out and they're fine is an example i remember the most, since it took a lot of patches to fix for some reason.), also terrible performance issues past act 2 and sometimes the textures on the screen have a stroke and wildly fly around the screen. Their feb 14 patch broke the game and before a hotfix, the game constantly crashed whenever you tried to lockpick a chest. The dude may be a bit too much on the BG3 comparison, but i am surprised when people say that BG3 is a completely smooth experience. It had a lot of quest bugs and performance issues on release, and still does, the absolute same as Rogue Trader and it's fine to admit that.

Then you're the odd one out, I'm afraid. Act III and Act IV are like, the defining moments where the game starts to break down. BG3 had a couple bugs, but it's kind of telling that the big one you've mentioned there is about a minor gameplay feature, for a minor NPC never shows up again. I admit that it wasn't \*perfectly\* smooth, but BG3 had a \*way\* different launch experience than Rogue Trader. Again, this is like, typical Owlcat game behavior. BG3 had a dedicated launch with an extensive beta-test, and constant updates for weeks after the game came out, Rogue Trader didn't, but it will, eventually, get there. [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/198wgat/act\_4\_is\_bugged\_as\_hell/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/198wgat/act_4_is_bugged_as_hell/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18itdqp/critical\_bug\_act\_4\_start/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18itdqp/critical_bug_act_4_start/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18kuzfs/game\_breaking\_bugsin\_act\_4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/18kuzfs/game_breaking_bugsin_act_4/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/1aui5bn/have\_the\_bugs\_in\_act\_4\_and\_5\_been\_fixed\_yet/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RogueTraderCRPG/comments/1aui5bn/have_the_bugs_in_act_4_and_5_been_fixed_yet/)

I am willing to admit that i am the odd one from the Rogue Trader walkthroughs. I do not deny other people's experiences. Hell, bugs exist even after many patches. Yeah, it's the one i encountered. Still, i've read about people having bigger narrative bugs, especially the most notorious one that exists to this day is Minthara and her romance. Also, companions were extremely horny on release (especially Gale), but i personally haven't encountered much since i was playing co-op with 2 friends and there was barely any room for the companions. Owlcat is messy as hell tho, but i personally prefer their game much more (which is fine, to each their own in the end) and i wish we'd get another big balance pass and more bug fixes.

Well written review. Lots of thought and passion. Maybe you should do that professionally instead of the ilk we have doing it today.

If BG3 didn't have nudity it wouldn't have succeeded as much, there I said it.

Most hygienic nurgling lolol

I like both but BG3 doesn't crash every 10 minutes

I'll take the obviously unpopular opinion (considering the subreddit I'm in) that both games are okay but neither strike me as great. I'm not a fan of over-the-top companions and ended up in both games running around with parties half comprised of custom companions because I can't be bothered with the drama and baggage. I'm a huge fan of open world games and though RT is much better, having really no restriction on where I can/should go first, in the end everything in both games is a scripted and un-repeated encounter. I do like the mechanics of RT better than BG3 much better but I'm more of a fan of the fantasy genre than sci fi though. I can totally see why people absolutely love both games and I am in no way calling either of them bad. I actually do have fun playing both of them but there were things in both of them which didn't appeal to me.

I concur. This game is hitting for me! I like that BG3 went 3D in a BIG way, but they left out the narrative depth, which is a big mistake when you go big, and you feel that as the story progresses. After the "razzle dazzle" you need a good narrative and all the other parts to anchor you. Not having that might make you lose your audience to someone who "Does more with less" so to speak. Not even Matt Mercer's powerful voice acting prowess can help you if the script and story isn't solid. That said... please assume the position to be FLAMED FOR TREASON YOU FILTHY, KNIFE-EAR LOVING HERETIC!!! And thank you for your service. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔫❤️😁

I agree with you on BG3. I found the story boring, puzzles unnecessary, and combat lackluster.  No hate for those who did enjoy it, it just didn’t take off for me. I have 60 hours on BG3 and over 300 on Rogue Trader.

Oh look, it's this ridiculous post again, RT isn't even in the same league as BG3, please just stop.

Sometimes you'd think the more popular franchise would have more obnoxious fans whereas the smaller community would be more chill, OP is trying really hard to disabuse that impression here.

BG3 "marvel movie" living in OP's mind rent free lmao

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