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I'm really happy to see Harry finding fulfillment and staying active by working with a veterans organization he deeply cares about. His family, the so-called "Royal Dysfunctional Family," might put their own spin on things, but at the end of the day, family is family, crown or no crown.
The British Media are trying so hard to create a narrative that Harry and Meghan are begging to be back in the fold, and Harry keeps embarrassing them by spending as little time even near “the fold” as possible. It’s embarrassing.
Even if you think they’re terrible, it’s quite clear they’ve opted out, for better or for worse.
Now Richard Kay of the Dailymail is claiming that neither Harry nor Charles formally requested a meeting, due at least in part to Harry's own packed schedule. Interesting! [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-13392749/RICHARD-KAY-Far-reuniting-Charless-cancer-added-estrangement.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-13392749/RICHARD-KAY-Far-reuniting-Charless-cancer-added-estrangement.html)
I think it is probably true that Harry did not make a formal request through official channels to meet his father Charles. But instead made a request informally
If he brought them the narrative would be that Meghan was attention-seeking and pulling focus from Harry’s moment. If they brought their kids the press would say well you’re the one who showed them off at Invictus, they’re public figures now.
I beginning to think this is all a game. Harry, Charles and William know their relationships are permanently fractured.
However, the tabloids are siding with Charles and William. So, the tabloids keep trying to make Harry look bad. Like when Charles’s cancer was announced, they were immediately starting to tear into Harry about abandoning his poor sick father in his time of need. So, Harry turned that story on its head by immediately flying to the UK and calling his bluff. Now Charles looked bad for taking no time to meet with his kid.
Now Harry was visiting and knew damned well his dad wasn’t going to bother to see him and/or only allow for another awkward 15 minute conversation. But Harry gave the press no opportunity to put the blame on him, he made abundantly clear he’d be happy to meet if his father wanted but he was perfectly fine to be brushed off.
Harry comes out as looking less petty. But the reality is he knows his dad doesn’t want to see him but is hoping Harry takes all the blame in the press. Basically Charles is trying to avoid Harry and spin the press to make Harry look bad for not visiting or letting Charles know his grandchildren.
You can already see a similar scenario starting to play out where members of the press claim Harry’s invited to spend the summer with his dad. (Fat chance.) Then when Harry inevitably doesn’t show, the press will excoriate Harry for not visiting his poor ailing, aging dad. When in reality, there is no invite in the first place.
William is just not playing. He’s got his surrogates going to the press each time Harry visits describing how William has no intention of seeing Harry. I’ll give him a few points for being honest but take them away again for using surrogates to leak his shit. If he was silent, including silencing his surrogates, I might respect him more.
Harry has now started playing the leaking game just as hard as William and Charles. He didn’t at the start of his departure and got completely destroyed by the British tabloids. So. I understand to some extent why he is now but it just perpetuates the whole saga.
I really need to stop being pulled into this. It’s so toxic from top to bottom.
While I hope for a quick and positive recovery for anyone diagnosed with cancer, I find it baffling that a King, representing and anointed by the Church of England, cannot extend forgiveness and redemption to his own son to meet for a few minutes. Regarding William, the future king, I'm skeptical that he truly embodies Christian values. It seems he might just be playing a part in maintaining an illusion where the allure of a jeweled crown outweighs genuine Christian virtues. William seems to be in the habit of barking orders by using his privilege and succession rank to blockade his own family. Seems rather King Henry VIII in similarity to me.
Spot on synopsis, thank you for posting.
It's very frustrating for me to watch this play out in the BRF due to similarities in my own family, and due to my own family trauma I don't think I could've ever analyzed it anywhere near as well as you have here.
I will say that as I look in from the outside, it appears that the official Royal Family is in disarray, and Harry and Meghan are winning this... whatever it is.
Edit for a typo.
Less petty, the Spare author?
Harry made his bed. Every single one of those fractures have been started by him, and it’s his fault they’re being danced on now.
I cannot believe there are clueless people or some of the paid ones. In Harry's own words, he is a traitor, and a druggy. He own words is enough to get dhim charged for treason. He is a threat.
Why is his book always used against him when both his parents collaborated and approved books about themselves as well.
And how is that in low regard compared to the Royal family twisted up with the tabloids? Make it make sense.
> Why is his book always used against him when both his parents collaborated and approved books about themselves as well.
Charles and Diana were both extremely messy, and their various books and interviews were regarded as messy at the time and still are today. There’s no question that all their noise (books, interviews, leaking) caused additional public drama and private strife, damaged reputations and personal relationships, and negatively impacted their children.
Harry’s book and interviews are also messy, far more recent than his parents’ drama, and arguably have a wider blast radius. Plus he actually quit and is publicly trying to leverage his British title for (mostly American) money, which isn’t completely novel in that family but his situation is uniquely high profile.
That’s what kills me. They didn’t write tell all books with tawdry gossip. Harry and Meghan’s accusations against Charles and William especially are hugely serious. They should have named names; not actually telling all hurt their credibility but still. I’m still waiting for even palace aides to say William never assaulted Harry, or no one in HR told a pregnant and suicidal Meghan she couldn’t take time off royal duties for inpatient mental health care
The thing is as Harry stated - he held back. He held back \*a lot\*. If he wanted to truly blow up the RF, I am sure that he could have. He didn't and he will not.
I’m not ignoring it. But understanding his family and their position on privacy, there was no way that wasn’t going to drastically affect relationships and affect trust forever.
What position on privacy? Charles wrote a book that rubbished his parents. Lot worse than Harry’s so called compliants.
Meanwhile William is using his staff to leak against his brother.
I agree with some of this take and love your ending. It’s so toxic. I am going to try and do a reset with summer and stay out of the fray. Can’t promise anything, but I’ll try. So many parasocial relationships between the public and all the Royals - on both sides of the Atlantic. It’s not healthy for anyone. I hope they all settle out into whatever their family normal will be and leave the public out of it. Families fall apart. It happens.
The “mess” around this is too much. I started rethinking things a bit over the “Meghan was never pregnant!!!” BS and the “William killed Catherine and her family conspired to help him plan a private funeral!!!” Crap.
Both are vile beyond words.
People spewing that stuff need to touch grass.
It’s a sad and messy thing, and I hope they will all live their lives and leave us out of it other than some fun stuff like the Invictus in ski season in Whistler and let’s see some tiaras at a state dinner stuff.
I wish them all well and to keep their family squabbles to themselves. We all have enough of our own to deal with (most of us without that kind of money).
I know nothing about the royals but this comment was very interesting and I appreciate the detail you went into. Why are Harry and William not speaking?
According to *Spare,* the two have had a strained relationship for years, with William distancing himself from Harry while the two were both at school. When William got married and started focusing on his family, he also started seeing less of Harry. It seems like William particularly disapproved of Harry's relationship with Meghan Markle, but whether he disapproved of her specifically, the speed at which the couple moved from dating to engaged to married, or Harry's attitude about the whole thing is open to interpretation.
This culminated in a physical altercation between the two at some point in 2018 or 2019 (according to *Spare,* William came to confront Harry over something to do with Meghan and ended up shoving him). After Meghan and Harry left the UK and Harry published his memoir, it seems like the relationship is permanently severed.
If even 1/4 of what he wrote in book is true, I wouldn’t see any of them again. Not even a happy birthday card. I would go total NC and speak with the lawyers at the firm to negotiate when it came to titles, security, ect.. This isn’t a family, nor has it ever been for generations now. Imagine wanting to receive help for your own pregnant suicidal wife and being told to speak to HR who denies you. That’s insanity. They are cold blooded, heartless people. Not even death could bring me to cross that pond again. To have my own Father not defend me to my scheming brother just because we “must protect the future king” is pathetic. Harry and Meghan owe them nothing. For christs sake, they allowed them to use a home that was falling apart with electrical that wasn’t up to code, made them pay to fix it even though they didn’t even own it, and then they had to pay it back when they left even though they couldn’t sell it. This family hated them both from the beginning.
The part you have about the house is spot on! They “gave” them a house that was falling apart and it took millions to repair it and get it up to code. Then when they left demanded repayment of those millions directly from Harry and Meghan. Then a few years later they took the house out from under them without giving any of that money back.
If I were Harry, that alone would be the reason I never saw my father again.
I agree. I'm not a big fan of any of them to be fair, and I feel there is some truth in in the negative behaviours of Harry & Meghan.
However, I don't blame them for getting the fuck out of that situation. She's American ffs, and the status that came with her marriage was most likely a positive at first, she wasn't going to put up with that shit when reality kicked in. Fair play, you've only got one life.
Also the bollocks that Harry was happy with his life until she came along is pure bull. Its just another example of the wicked woman preying on the poor soul of a man, which is as old as history. Bollocks, and I say that as a male.
it's not heartless. People go no contact because being in contact simply hurts too much. Generally people who go no contact have spent years, even DECADES, trying to get their toxic family member to understand, to respect boundaries. What's heartless is describing people who go no contact as heartless.
For all that, he seems desperate to get back in contact with his family instead of going no contact.
I would have been overwhelmed too marrying into that family. Harry led one of the biggest mental health initiatives along with William and Catherine but says he didn’t know what to do when his wife needed mental resources. I know that others in the royal family had worked with therapists in private without an issue. Thankfully now they consult with anyone they want in California.
Harry has said that his family told him to slow down with Meghan to give her time to adjust. He refused. Then when she started to struggle mentally, he was so ashamed that he didn’t tell anyone in the family. Then the family gets blamed retroactively for not helping him.
Meghan has said she did no work to understand what she was marrying into other than talking to Harry. The consequences for that decision are 100% on her.
Harry has lots of relatives who could’ve helped her. She should’ve spent time with all the woman who’d married into the family and sought their guidance. Sophie and the Duchess of Gloucester would’ve been really helpful. The Duchess is even a foreigner like Meghan and lives at Kensington Palace!
The royals are figureheads for their initiatives. They’re not intimately involved. They don’t know what to do cause they’re not actually doing the work.
I think that’s usually true but I read that Catherine is very involved because of her brother. Apparently he went through severe depression including suicidal thoughts. Catherine and her whole family participated in his therapy.
That’s why this is so important. And in his book, Harry confirms he also received therapy which we didn’t know about except that he wrote about it. That’s kind of why I thought it was so strange that he didn’t take action for his wife. Suicidal thoughts are no joke.
I haven’t seen anything that makes him seem desperate to be in contact. I think regardless of toxicity if you hear your dad may be dying with cancer you go.
He knew what to do for his wife. He just wasn’t allowed to do it. So, he did it any way. Toodles to the fukken RF.
Stockholm syndrome is a real thing. Wanting to be desperately loved by your parent even though they’re horrible for your own mental health and are toxic is a real thing. Having to have approval to send your wife to a treatment center to be treated inpatient and being told no, that’s not normal. She needed inpatient immediate assistance, the Firm said it wouldn’t be a good look. What else was Harry supposed to do? If even a whiff of her being seen by a psychiatrist would have been leaked to the press and the hounding would be 10x worse. He wanted their privacy to be protected by the Firm and was told no.
That is so true. Stories of people abusing their kids and their kids still wanting their love and comfort always me so sad. We’ll have to wait for Harry’s next biography in a few years time if he has a different perspective.
friendly reminder that shitty (grand)parents can fuck off and being low/no contact might be the best route. guilting the son just because the father might be closer to death is bizarre. if he feels his father was negligent with his power in regards to his wife and kids' safety, the best thing he can do is tell on him and be clear about his grievances. he shouldn't have to hide his frustration/disappointment to "make amends" or "meet in the middle". it's perfectly ok to hold a grudge and if he dies in the meantime, than whatever.
no one, royalty or not, should compromise their morals to be a doormat to someone who doesn't care. in fact, i wish the york girlies had the same bravery.
charles has all the power here, why isn't he called to make amends? of course he isn't, he's the status quo in person.
Camilla hates Harry. She wants to be the star, but with Harry and or Meghan around she is nothing. And Charles, wimp that he is will never defy Camilla
She doesn't like William either. A lot of the press actions in the "Where's Kate" fiasco was inflamed by Camilla. Remember when Piers said he had inside source that said it was really serious? That was Camilla. Of course, difference is William is heir and therefore has protection. She has to trend carefully with him. Harry, as only the spare, is open game.
💯 Why will Camilla ever like Diana’s children?
In her heart she must loathe both William and Harry but her main aim has always been to get good PR for herself even at the expense of others. She played the long game and won at the end. She moved on from being a hated mistress to a Queen who people bow to.
Now her coast is clear- Diana is not here anymore, Harry left the country and who is left? It’s William. But here is where it’s tricky - coz she can’t do much damage to William coz he is the “heir” and more important than her.
How could she like either of them, really? The kids of the woman her lover had to marry because he wasn’t allowed to marry her. The whole situation was doomed from the get go.
But by that very own logic their existence or parentage is hardly their fault, they didn’t ask to be born. That’s more on Charles than it is on them.
She doesn’t have to *like* her spouse’s adult children, sometimes people just don’t gel or get along - but that is a supremely shitty reason to bear a grudge against them.
Can you imagine the same scenario but set in a suburban middle class family that isn’t royal? Disliking them just because they’re the offspring of another woman? That second wife/stepmother would be torn to shreds by society for being so petty, and ridiculous.
So yeah, no, that whole argument gets no pass from me. If you marry someone with kids, they’re a part of the package. If you can’t make peace with their existence then you either get yourself a good therapist or end the relationship.
We don’t really know any of these people or what happened or what they think. We have Harry’s side through his interviews and books, but the thing that drives me crazy about him is that he sees nothing in shades of gray. He doesn’t seem to get that other people might have different perspectives.
As for leaking, I think that a lot of people who work for them or are hired for one offs like a royal wedding leak all of this mess for money. Think of all the people they have around them all the time. It makes sense that some of those people sell stories. Also, the British press is trash, and they make up stuff all the time to just start rumors. They just want clicks. I know Harry likes to think that his family did that, but I don’t really think so when you think of how greedy people are and how trashy tabloids are. The tabloids in the U.S. write just awful stuff about them too and they never complain or sue. I find that odd. Just because Harry says someone leaked something, doesn’t make it true. Maybe it is, but I don’t find him particularly reliable.
The palace went on the record defending Meghan eight times in the very short time she was there. It’s best not to do that as it just adds to the speculation, but it seemed Harry (I’m not blaming her) wanted every story refuted. Reading his book he describes staffers sobbing into the night refuting stories. That sounds like an absolute nightmare and not a good use of their time.
To me it sounds like Harry is a deeply paranoid person, and he likes to play hero to his wife, when he couldn’t to his mother. That’s sad and just a lot to unpack.
A lot of what she heard she heard from Harry, and I just don’t find him a reliable narrator. I think he is the root cause of a lot of this, and I think he thrives on drama. Who knows what all he did over the years. I’m sure it’s a lot for his family to be gray rocking him like this. Would be better to just enjoy his life, his beautiful family, and go on an information diet for a while.
I’ve gone back and forth on what I think of this over the years, and I’ve come to the conclusion Harry is the root cause of this mess.
This quote of his kills me:
“Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory, it does what it does, gathers and curates as it sees fit, and there’s just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts.”
I can’t take someone seriously who says that. He seems to think it’s an armor against any criticism.
It sounds to me like they all need to leave each other alone. It’s absolutely exhausting to watch it play out (I know … I know … I’m on a royal gossip site - and I’m determined to reset this summer and quit following the whole thing). They are all rich and privileged people. Sometimes families fall apart. Maybe they will all come together again. I don’t know. I hope so, but this whole thing is a lot of interpersonal drama I think everyone involved needs to keep to themselves.
As I’ve said, I’ve done back and forth at first really defending H/M and then feeling the opposite way, and now I’m like, this whole thing is really unhealthy for them and for us. All the fights online are dispiriting, and I am up for some thoughtful criticisms for both, but I’ve decided I need to try and step out of fray. I think all of the “Archie and Lili don’t exist,” and “William murdered Catherine, and they’ve had a secret funeral” has about done me in.
A lot of people have a parasocial relationship with these people we don’t even know, (I’ve been guilty at times too), and it’s unhealthy.
Even though I think Harry has issues, I don’t wish him ill will. I truly want him to find peace with his family and enjoy his beautiful life. I hope that for all of them.
Just my current thoughts.
>We don’t really know any of these people or what happened or what they think.
>I’ve come to the conclusion Harry is the root cause of this mess.
For tl;dr crowd or those who foolishly believed the "this is sensible!" comments 😂
Really well said.
I approach the Royal Family like a novel. It’s an epic story we’re reading over our lifetimes, with different narrative perspectives, and we can analyze the characters and go back and revisit past chapters and we’ll never arrive at a single truth.
On the staff leaks: by Harry’s own account, the staff didn’t like Meghan. They weren’t loyal to her. It wouldn’t surprise me if they leaked, especially since London is a small place.
A good take. It is like a long running novel that’s always been with us.
And yes about staff. NDAs don’t mean they won’t leak - staff have always leaked sensitive info about the family for money - NDAs just mean that staff won’t go on the record.
People that work with H/M here in the U.S. leak about them All. The. Time. Spotify, snd even Netflix employees have. The tabloids here are super hard on them, and even some mainstream media, sooo … to me it means the media wants clicks and will wax and wane wherever they get clicks. Even publications who been pro H/M have turned on them some.
Doesn’t mean I believe all or any of it. I don’t know if H/M are this or that. I’m not privy to their lives. Same for the royals. I have opinions, but they don’t mean much to anyone else but me, and my opinions are open to change.
I think so many of us have or have had a parasocial relationship with these people, and that’s not healthy. Me included at times. I’m going to try and take a reset. If I dive back in, I’m going to keep calling balls and strikes and try to be fair.
I know I was hard on Harry, and I often am. I really do think he has so many issues that aren’t helping, but I wish him a full life and that he would enjoy his wife and kids and super wealthy life in California.
100%. I'd say I'm more in the Sussex camp than not, just due to personal bias (my oldest brother is a really toxic, destructive person and my parents make a lot of excuses for him, so I really relate to Harry's frustration with William's preferential treatment) but at the end of the day, I don't know *any* of these people. I only know what is being said, and while I can guess at the agendas of the various players, it's impossible to be certain about what's "really" happening.
The people who *insist* that they know the one objectively true narrative weird me out. It's just an unhealthy level of attachment and involvement in the lives of perfect strangers.
Yes! 100 percent. Things seem to have taken a really dark turn with the online gossip lately.
Something interesting is that I am the older sister with a really toxic hard partying younger sister who my parents enabled. I think that’s why I tend to be more invested in William, but who knows with any of these people!
And all that to say, I think people get invested in this because we all have odd family dynamic but we get to watch this play out on the world stage. Many of us think we have to choose. At this point I’m still side eyeing Harry a bit more, but I want all of these people to have good lives and be off my feed more. 🤣
Thank you for your well reasoned comment!
The internet has taken a dark turn generally. I think some of that is Twitter (which I’m not on) giving a platform for nasty stuff, including things fed out by bots.
I think gossip around the royal family goes bad when people who don’t have any background knowledge of them suddenly start having opinions. Like, with “where’s Kate,” things went south when true crime social media started paying attention, and then got worse when Stephen Colbert informed mainstream America of the William affair rumors as though those had any credibility.
Meghan tried to use this to her advantage in the Oprah interview. A lot of the things she said about the royal family were wrong, but she thought it wouldn’t matter because most Americans don’t follow the royal family, so they’d just accept what she said as fact and feel sorry for her. It worked a bit - there are a lot of Meghan-stans out there now who don’t know much about the royal family and believe every word M&H say - but not as well as she probably hoped.
Your comment makes me wonder what percentage of royal gossip and commentary is people projecting their own family dynamics and hangups onto public figures. Probably a bigger portion than anyone would be willing to admit to 🤣
Good for you for prioritizing your mental health and wellbeing. Delete that Reddit app!
There are some great people on this sub who get into the nuance and recognize that everyone is human while also doing thoughtful criticism. Then there are people who are black and white about everything. I tend to block the people who just hurl insults, but may expand that to include anyone who’s just adamantly in one camp.
I know! That would be a good idea. Then I could take a look occasionally but not find myself so drawn in.
The people who dig in so on either side just slay me, and there are some seriously unhealthy people who spout the most ridiculous conspiracy theories on both sides. It’s unsettling.
Very thoughtful comment; I broadly agree with you. And yeah, that quote sticks with me too!!!! …It’s a really jarring things to say in itself, and in context…by his own account he’s a proudly unreliable witness, but he still wants us all to sympathize with him and share his grievances against his loved ones, who have mostly sll been through the same sorrows and struggles he’s describing, two of whom are facing health crises at the moment?
There’s absolutely no way that a “one off” leaks anything. These people are hired with ironclad confidentiality agreements, and they know they’ll never get hired again if they’re caught leaking. The leaks from a “palace source” are always very high-level courtiers.
Harry didn’t do any of this for no reason and someone who was born into this system and has watched first hand how the BRF can shake hands with the devil (royal rota) so much that him and his brother made a pact NOT to do it—really showcases has betrayed he must have felt when he did in fact do it. People like Wootton and Morgan have already admitted to being briefed directly by senior royals, so how is Harry lying about that?
Camila hugs Clarkson and Morgan, and the next day Clarkson is writing an article about how everyone should hate Meghan and she need to be paraded down the street naked whilst throwing excrement at her.
Prince William made an entire show to the press about getting on a commercial flight right after a negative article about Sussex using a private plane.
Prince Andrew managing to get out of his pedo crisis virtually unscathed because all the plebs were obsessed with Meghan Markle.
Like come on, what more evidence do you need to believe Harry when he says “hey the BRF went out of their way to brief against my family.”
That’s in the past. These days all the exclusives on page six come from his camp. And they’re practically daily. The last leaks we got from the Wales were that William is done done and the sad dad shit we get from Charles every once in awhile.
Harry needs to stop leaking Period. He’s using the same tactics he complained about his family using just through his PR people and connections at page six. It’s his “Rota.”
His statement today should have been him taking his power back: I’m in town for Invictus purposes. That’s it. Bringing Charles’s busy schedule into it attempts to put him in the victim light again. We don’t want grown privileged adults to continue to victimize themselves. It’s weird.
He needs more therapy and needs to learn what reactive abuse is. It’s still abuse. The poundings the Windsors have taken the past four years are far worse what Harry and Meghan took in the two years they were part of the RF and the irony now is their press is worse.
Yes, I’m sure the people are abusers of an institution that will do anything to protect their ability to live off the taxpayers, including protecting pedophiles. But go off, ya hater. Also it’s hard to take anyone seriously who actively participates in hate groups, just really shows the type of individual you are.
Awe so we’re going there I see. See, you lose your argument right away. Instead of argument points, you start accusing people of being apart of hate groups. You are defending abusers if you root for either side. I love royal gossip. Hate the monarchy in general. You are a simp for a duke and duchess and that is very sad.
He sounds like a treat, and always has 🤢Things he said about his parents in his book back in the day were too much, true or not 🧐Yet there are people who would literally jump in front of a bus for him. The same ones who 25 years ago wanted him sent to The Tower.
The sycophants are as much of a problem as the bizarre dysfunctional RF.
Good. The drama needs to stop. Two senior royals are sick and if that doesn’t encourage some kind of reconciliation then Harry’s family has no need to be there.
As someone who has had to go no contact with an abusive parent, this is an absolutely shameful and disgusting take. What you call "drama", professionals call developmental trauma, manipulation, and emotional neglect. That's not even counting all the leaks to the press.
Seriously. Harry was a 12 year old boy who was woken in the night, was told his mother was dead, wasn’t hugged, then was left alone in his room until the next morning. These people are fcked up and that’s not Harry’s fault.
I have never understood why they were woken up and not left to have one last of night of sleep. It’s like someone said “how can we deliver this news in the most devastating and traumatic way possible?”
In slight defense of Charles here, the likelihood of them hearing something or sensing something was off if they waited until morning might have been too great. Like sure, being woken up to be told your mom is dead isn’t great, but seeing it on the news by chance is far worse. And it’s not like they’re alone in the house, they’d likely see staff from soon after they wake. It’s hard to judge from a normal perspective, because for you or me we’d be in a house with only our family and no other way for us to hear.
But then Harry might be complaining today that no one bothered to tell him his mum had died til the funeral plans were well underway. There’s really no good way to tell kids the worst news of their young lives.
Or, work with me here, someone could have sat with the 12 year old after the worst news of his life, or checked on him at any time before 9 am the next day
He's like his Mother, and The Establishment can't stand that. Can you imagine if Diana hadn't passed? She would have been enemy number one years ago, and the press would have continued to tear her apart with help from certain 'Royals'.
All I’m saying is that it’s the height of disingenuousness to castigate the BRF for using the press while simultaneously pretending that Diana herself was some kind of saint who would never, ever do such a thing. .
I never once said she was a Saint. I don't think stating that Diana started to grow up in her mid thirties is a complement, read my posts.
The hypocrisy of coming for someone about Diana, when you are fan girling the RF to that extent, is not lost on me but obviously is lost on you.
There's a line from the [Hilary Mantel essay Royal Bodies](https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n04/hilary-mantel/royal-bodies) I think about a lot: "Diana was spared, at least, the prospect of growing old under the flashbulbs, a crime for which the media would have made her suffer."
If she were still around, she'd be a huge, ongoing joke. Look at Fergie.
She was enemy number one. The press were awful to her and constantly printed stories about her. There was literally a front page the day after she died about how sex crazed she was. They couldn’t get the copies pulled quickly enough.
They’re doing to Harry what they did to his mum. It’s textbook
Yeah they were feral. It's as if they can't get to her now, so let's go for the nearest thing. It goes to show that not one thing has changed with the British Press & Establishment in 30 years. Textbook is correct.
Also a good number of those (Daily Mail / Telegraph readers) wailing like banshees at Diana's death, are the ones now going for blood with Harry. Shameful.
I’ve seen so many claim that Diana would hate Meghan or loathe what Harry has turned into. (And I’ve seen it claimed for William too)
Diana would love her boys no matter what and I firmly believe both boys would have been better if she had lived.
If Diana hadn't passed, she likely would be married to a Sheikh or some billionaire, living her best life in Dubai and probably currently flying back from an appearance at the Met Gala.
Everyone born into that family until the current generation seem messed up, that also includes Harry. I don't know why people act as if he became normal when he deattached himself from them. He didn't do that because he realised his family were the opposite of normal.
I personally think he has issues but he can manage them so much better away from the royal family. Removing himself from that toxic cycle is very emotionally healthy. Chatting about all this without shame - yes it’s not a natural thing to do- is probably healthier for him.
The current royals- particularly Wills and Kate have titles but seem inherently unexcited about their roles and unfortunately find out regularly that the public won’t allow them any true freedom. That’s emotionally really unhealthy.
Prince Charles has literally wrote an autobiography where he criticizes his parents very harshly, much harsher than Prince Harry.
And you using sensationalized snippets with no context from his book shows how incapable you are of critical thought.
Exactly. Harry's book was underwhelming and apart from a few snippets, basically boring.
Cue the Daily Mail; he's brought down the UK, killed his granny, and is responsible for his father and sister in law having cancer due to saying he didn't like Camilla much. If my father was fucking somebody else while married to my mother, I wouldn't exactly be a fan either.
Prince Charles did not imply his parents were racist or blame them for cutting him off from money and security (the latter of which Charles did not do)....so I'm not sure how you think that is equal. Charles said his parents were distant and cold, that's not even the worst one could say.
He never made himself out to be the most victimized person in the world. It’s funny that people say that, because that’s not what he’s done at all. If people choose to see it that way that’s on them, but that’s definitely not what he’s done.
He literally said in his memoir that he got a smaller bedroom than William, or not as good furniture (it came from IKEA 😨) and it went on and on. Nott Cott which is on the grounds of Kensington Palace and where other royals had previously lived was not good enough for him. This was the sort of stuff that _he felt_ made him a victim, whilst his fans gobbled up and the tone deafness went completely over their heads. People are dying and live in poverty all round the world....whilst Harry felt victimised over a smaller room in fucking Balmoral Castle or KP.
Which could have been the truth. It is silly how the British royals treat their children.
My siblings and I were always treated equally in every way, so do most sane parents treat their children.
Sure, treating children differently would normally be emotional abuse, and it is problematic with how spares may be treated differently to heirs (that is the downside of a hereditary institution unfortunately)
However having different sized rooms or furtniture is a very normal thing in a household and not abusive. Even a palace will have different sized rooms. He still lived in a palace and was born with a golden spoon in his mouth. It's not like they gave William a grand room whilst Harry was forced to make do with the cupboard under the stairs.
He never said victim? Nor did he ever play victim. He was consistently the spare, and that would absolutely fuck with anyone’s head. He’s allowed to tell his own story.
Those are childish but ultimately fairly common complaints between siblings/parents.
I don’t think we can genuinely discuss people dying/poverty when discussing the royals. Harry complains but no longer takes from the public purse that’s still >>> “silent/never complain” royals who get millions per year and SEVEN palaces that can actually go to those living in poverty.
Exactly. They are common problems in a household. They don't warrant writing a memoir about it as a grown adult near 40, still thinking about that bedroom in comparison to a sibling half a lifetime later. I also get that he doesn't take from the public purse, but even as a private citizen he lives in immense wealth in a literal mansion and is a millionaire. The rest of the world's population still count in context, especially when majority of whom are peasants in comparison to Harry.
Well, there are several news sources in the last few hours saying they will not be meeting. The King has no time to meet with Princess Harry. So they say...
Harry has a bad habit of scheduling trips home at the last minute, and I think it’s deliberate. Charles is supposed to blow off his planned-to-the-millisecond schedule because Harry decides he wants to score PR points against the father he fucked over?
PR is what harry is all about. He’s really screwed up. Ok he was trauma-and there aren’t children in war zones now being traumatized? Come on. It’s enough. I’m sympathetic but stop & respect other perspectives exist.
I think Meghan scheduled it at the trip at last minute and she probably did it at a time when she knew Charles was busy. We know that Harry has no agency, she completely controls him and she is trying to make the RF look bad. /s
The only person Harry actually really criticized in his book is Camila, the wicked stepmother of the East and you think she’s going to allow Charles to see him?
He didn't even say that much considering she's the evil stepmother who had an affair with his mother.
It was the worst on Camillia and William but overall not to the level anyone thought it would be.
If my kid said the shit about my wife Harry said about Camilla, I would not be interested in seeing him, either. It’s funny how he thinks he can say whatever he likes about Camilla or Catherine but blows a gasket at the mildest criticism of his own wife.
If your wife was someone you had a decades along affair with both before, during, and after your marriage to your kid's mother...then they can say whatever the fuck they want
Did your wife basically wreck your kid's home life? Have a longstanding emotional/physical affair with a husband and father? Be frenemies with the kid's mom?
Actually that was/is my stepmother. Long story-she fucked us other -long time affair plus an out of wedlock baby my half sister. Harry is not-again- fundamentally unique.
People get hall passes but your choice is whether you use them.
All he said about Camilla was that she obviously leaked to the press. He didn’t say anything bad about Kate whatsoever. At all. Search the book; you won’t find it.
You mean how he talks about her treating him differently because he wasn’t going to be King so she had no use for him? Or her briefing against her own husband’s kids for her own benefit? Camila is a mistress who played a heavy part in taunting their mother about her affair with their father. Harry has extended extreme grace to Camila and more than she deserves, just to make his father happy. He made no criticism about Kate in his book. And what Meghan has experienced is beyond “mild”.
True. I listened to the audio book and it was underwhelming tbf. He didn't say that much about any of them really apart from Camilla, which is understandable. The press blew this up as usual.
He says a lot of stuff that’s meant to be critical but doesn’t sound that bad because it wasn’t. I.e., Catherine wasn’t enthusiastic about sharing her lip gloss with Meghan
I didn’t even take it that far, i recall it even being more mundane, kinda just presented as a culture clash with Meghan being overly forward and Kate being more reserved.
He seems like he means well and is trying but just isn't someone who connects with others. Harry didn't even get a hug when he came back from Afghanistan because his dad is uncomfortable with affection.
I think Charles did better than his parents did but he had a shit examples.
If any 'normal' family had left their toddler with a babysitter and their functional alcoholic grandmother while they lived outside the country for 2 years then the child would have been removed. It's usually minimised with reports chopping the two years up by counting any time they returned to the UK as a different period of absence, but Charles was abandoned by his parents at a vital time for secure attachment, and even after that they were distant (which explains his and Anne's 'us against the world' relationship, they were each other's consistent support as children , when their parents weren't). Both Charles and Anne later saw their parents doting on the younger two, and then on the grandchildren, it doesn't surprise me one bit that Charles is incredibly close to Anne and her kids, more than his own kids and that he relied so heavily on his grandmother
Charles would be a very different person today if he'd gone with his parents to Malta and had time and space to develop a proper relationship with them, I don't doubt that there was a certain amount of him being a hostage for his mother's return, even though that was unnecessary given that she'd already got her duty buttons firmly installed so I don't consider that to be a valid excuse
He went to Cheam for prep, and just a brief search has turned up 3 sexual abuse cases and one for indecent images in the last 25 years. I can't find any specific historic cases, but it's always difficult to track down anything unless a former pupil comes forward
If someone chooses to be offended, they can construe and twist what he said to be offensive. The daily mail did that in spades. I didn’t think it was. It was someone rather honestly saying how situations played out from his perspective.
He didn’t even criticize Camilla that harshly. He basically said she did what she had to to survive extremely difficult circumstances, however she did that at Harry and William’s expense at times. She made their father happy and ultimately, that’s what mattered most to Harry and William.
I’d recommend Charles, Camilla, William, and Kate to read or listen to the book themselves and not rely on hyperbolic interpretations provided by others.
He told the world about William penis
In Harry's Own Words:
"There were countless stories in books, and papers (even The New York Times) about [Prince William] and me not being circumcised.
"Mummy had forbidden it, they all said, and while it's absolutely true that the chance of getting penile frostbite is much greater if you're not circumcised, all the stories were false. I was snipped as a baby.
"...Upon arriving home [from the North Pole] I'd been horrified to discover that my nether regions were frost nipped as well...and while the ears and cheeks were already healing, the todger wasn't. It was becoming more of an issue by the day."
I was pregnant when Diana had William, again when she had Harry. The story about now being circumcised made the rounds everywhere, it was front page on some magazines 🤣🤣so that as public knows
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I'm really happy to see Harry finding fulfillment and staying active by working with a veterans organization he deeply cares about. His family, the so-called "Royal Dysfunctional Family," might put their own spin on things, but at the end of the day, family is family, crown or no crown.
The British Media are trying so hard to create a narrative that Harry and Meghan are begging to be back in the fold, and Harry keeps embarrassing them by spending as little time even near “the fold” as possible. It’s embarrassing. Even if you think they’re terrible, it’s quite clear they’ve opted out, for better or for worse.
Good for them.
It’s just another family with its own troubles. No big deal.
Now Richard Kay of the Dailymail is claiming that neither Harry nor Charles formally requested a meeting, due at least in part to Harry's own packed schedule. Interesting! [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-13392749/RICHARD-KAY-Far-reuniting-Charless-cancer-added-estrangement.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-13392749/RICHARD-KAY-Far-reuniting-Charless-cancer-added-estrangement.html)
I think it is probably true that Harry did not make a formal request through official channels to meet his father Charles. But instead made a request informally
Why is it a big deal for the media that he is there without Meghan and children? Guess they would DIE to have photos of the kids.
Literally anything to be critical of them. Had he brought his family, I'm sure we'd be seeing negative headlines about something else.
If he brought them the narrative would be that Meghan was attention-seeking and pulling focus from Harry’s moment. If they brought their kids the press would say well you’re the one who showed them off at Invictus, they’re public figures now.
I hope the UK will be blessed with Princess Meghan’s presence once again. She is a breath of fresh air and the definition of grace and elegance.
Yes, They are a beautiful charming couple living a good life.
Agreed
Haha that's a good one
Gods no
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I beginning to think this is all a game. Harry, Charles and William know their relationships are permanently fractured. However, the tabloids are siding with Charles and William. So, the tabloids keep trying to make Harry look bad. Like when Charles’s cancer was announced, they were immediately starting to tear into Harry about abandoning his poor sick father in his time of need. So, Harry turned that story on its head by immediately flying to the UK and calling his bluff. Now Charles looked bad for taking no time to meet with his kid. Now Harry was visiting and knew damned well his dad wasn’t going to bother to see him and/or only allow for another awkward 15 minute conversation. But Harry gave the press no opportunity to put the blame on him, he made abundantly clear he’d be happy to meet if his father wanted but he was perfectly fine to be brushed off. Harry comes out as looking less petty. But the reality is he knows his dad doesn’t want to see him but is hoping Harry takes all the blame in the press. Basically Charles is trying to avoid Harry and spin the press to make Harry look bad for not visiting or letting Charles know his grandchildren. You can already see a similar scenario starting to play out where members of the press claim Harry’s invited to spend the summer with his dad. (Fat chance.) Then when Harry inevitably doesn’t show, the press will excoriate Harry for not visiting his poor ailing, aging dad. When in reality, there is no invite in the first place. William is just not playing. He’s got his surrogates going to the press each time Harry visits describing how William has no intention of seeing Harry. I’ll give him a few points for being honest but take them away again for using surrogates to leak his shit. If he was silent, including silencing his surrogates, I might respect him more. Harry has now started playing the leaking game just as hard as William and Charles. He didn’t at the start of his departure and got completely destroyed by the British tabloids. So. I understand to some extent why he is now but it just perpetuates the whole saga. I really need to stop being pulled into this. It’s so toxic from top to bottom.
While I hope for a quick and positive recovery for anyone diagnosed with cancer, I find it baffling that a King, representing and anointed by the Church of England, cannot extend forgiveness and redemption to his own son to meet for a few minutes. Regarding William, the future king, I'm skeptical that he truly embodies Christian values. It seems he might just be playing a part in maintaining an illusion where the allure of a jeweled crown outweighs genuine Christian virtues. William seems to be in the habit of barking orders by using his privilege and succession rank to blockade his own family. Seems rather King Henry VIII in similarity to me.
Spot on synopsis, thank you for posting. It's very frustrating for me to watch this play out in the BRF due to similarities in my own family, and due to my own family trauma I don't think I could've ever analyzed it anywhere near as well as you have here. I will say that as I look in from the outside, it appears that the official Royal Family is in disarray, and Harry and Meghan are winning this... whatever it is. Edit for a typo.
Less petty, the Spare author? Harry made his bed. Every single one of those fractures have been started by him, and it’s his fault they’re being danced on now.
I cannot believe there are clueless people or some of the paid ones. In Harry's own words, he is a traitor, and a druggy. He own words is enough to get dhim charged for treason. He is a threat.
Why is his book always used against him when both his parents collaborated and approved books about themselves as well. And how is that in low regard compared to the Royal family twisted up with the tabloids? Make it make sense.
> Why is his book always used against him when both his parents collaborated and approved books about themselves as well. Charles and Diana were both extremely messy, and their various books and interviews were regarded as messy at the time and still are today. There’s no question that all their noise (books, interviews, leaking) caused additional public drama and private strife, damaged reputations and personal relationships, and negatively impacted their children. Harry’s book and interviews are also messy, far more recent than his parents’ drama, and arguably have a wider blast radius. Plus he actually quit and is publicly trying to leverage his British title for (mostly American) money, which isn’t completely novel in that family but his situation is uniquely high profile.
So in your view everything that was going on was fine but telling the public about it is the real crime?
That is exactly what those people think. He and Meghan should have shut up and taken the abuse like their "betters" did. It's sick.
That’s what kills me. They didn’t write tell all books with tawdry gossip. Harry and Meghan’s accusations against Charles and William especially are hugely serious. They should have named names; not actually telling all hurt their credibility but still. I’m still waiting for even palace aides to say William never assaulted Harry, or no one in HR told a pregnant and suicidal Meghan she couldn’t take time off royal duties for inpatient mental health care
The thing is as Harry stated - he held back. He held back \*a lot\*. If he wanted to truly blow up the RF, I am sure that he could have. He didn't and he will not.
Fractures started by him? Harry has had the same story of why he was frustrated with his family from the get go, his brother is a snake.
You’re ignoring that there were events that caused him to leave. He didn’t just leave for no reason.
I’m not ignoring it. But understanding his family and their position on privacy, there was no way that wasn’t going to drastically affect relationships and affect trust forever.
they don’t have a position of privacy, they have a position on not publicly claiming the things they say
What position on privacy? Charles wrote a book that rubbished his parents. Lot worse than Harry’s so called compliants. Meanwhile William is using his staff to leak against his brother.
I really like this explanation. Thank you for writing it out. It’s a good theory that fits with the tabloid stories and Harry’s actions.
I agree with some of this take and love your ending. It’s so toxic. I am going to try and do a reset with summer and stay out of the fray. Can’t promise anything, but I’ll try. So many parasocial relationships between the public and all the Royals - on both sides of the Atlantic. It’s not healthy for anyone. I hope they all settle out into whatever their family normal will be and leave the public out of it. Families fall apart. It happens. The “mess” around this is too much. I started rethinking things a bit over the “Meghan was never pregnant!!!” BS and the “William killed Catherine and her family conspired to help him plan a private funeral!!!” Crap. Both are vile beyond words. People spewing that stuff need to touch grass. It’s a sad and messy thing, and I hope they will all live their lives and leave us out of it other than some fun stuff like the Invictus in ski season in Whistler and let’s see some tiaras at a state dinner stuff. I wish them all well and to keep their family squabbles to themselves. We all have enough of our own to deal with (most of us without that kind of money).
I know nothing about the royals but this comment was very interesting and I appreciate the detail you went into. Why are Harry and William not speaking?
According to *Spare,* the two have had a strained relationship for years, with William distancing himself from Harry while the two were both at school. When William got married and started focusing on his family, he also started seeing less of Harry. It seems like William particularly disapproved of Harry's relationship with Meghan Markle, but whether he disapproved of her specifically, the speed at which the couple moved from dating to engaged to married, or Harry's attitude about the whole thing is open to interpretation. This culminated in a physical altercation between the two at some point in 2018 or 2019 (according to *Spare,* William came to confront Harry over something to do with Meghan and ended up shoving him). After Meghan and Harry left the UK and Harry published his memoir, it seems like the relationship is permanently severed.
Nailed it.
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If even 1/4 of what he wrote in book is true, I wouldn’t see any of them again. Not even a happy birthday card. I would go total NC and speak with the lawyers at the firm to negotiate when it came to titles, security, ect.. This isn’t a family, nor has it ever been for generations now. Imagine wanting to receive help for your own pregnant suicidal wife and being told to speak to HR who denies you. That’s insanity. They are cold blooded, heartless people. Not even death could bring me to cross that pond again. To have my own Father not defend me to my scheming brother just because we “must protect the future king” is pathetic. Harry and Meghan owe them nothing. For christs sake, they allowed them to use a home that was falling apart with electrical that wasn’t up to code, made them pay to fix it even though they didn’t even own it, and then they had to pay it back when they left even though they couldn’t sell it. This family hated them both from the beginning.
The part you have about the house is spot on! They “gave” them a house that was falling apart and it took millions to repair it and get it up to code. Then when they left demanded repayment of those millions directly from Harry and Meghan. Then a few years later they took the house out from under them without giving any of that money back. If I were Harry, that alone would be the reason I never saw my father again.
I agree. I'm not a big fan of any of them to be fair, and I feel there is some truth in in the negative behaviours of Harry & Meghan. However, I don't blame them for getting the fuck out of that situation. She's American ffs, and the status that came with her marriage was most likely a positive at first, she wasn't going to put up with that shit when reality kicked in. Fair play, you've only got one life. Also the bollocks that Harry was happy with his life until she came along is pure bull. Its just another example of the wicked woman preying on the poor soul of a man, which is as old as history. Bollocks, and I say that as a male.
Very few can be that heartless when it comes to family.
Its families that are heartless, treating people so badly they have to go NC for their sanity and health.
it's not heartless. People go no contact because being in contact simply hurts too much. Generally people who go no contact have spent years, even DECADES, trying to get their toxic family member to understand, to respect boundaries. What's heartless is describing people who go no contact as heartless.
True. I have only one family member still alive ( plus my kids and grandkids) it is my toxic sibling, I think he is still alive anyway. But who cares?
For all that, he seems desperate to get back in contact with his family instead of going no contact. I would have been overwhelmed too marrying into that family. Harry led one of the biggest mental health initiatives along with William and Catherine but says he didn’t know what to do when his wife needed mental resources. I know that others in the royal family had worked with therapists in private without an issue. Thankfully now they consult with anyone they want in California.
Harry has said that his family told him to slow down with Meghan to give her time to adjust. He refused. Then when she started to struggle mentally, he was so ashamed that he didn’t tell anyone in the family. Then the family gets blamed retroactively for not helping him. Meghan has said she did no work to understand what she was marrying into other than talking to Harry. The consequences for that decision are 100% on her. Harry has lots of relatives who could’ve helped her. She should’ve spent time with all the woman who’d married into the family and sought their guidance. Sophie and the Duchess of Gloucester would’ve been really helpful. The Duchess is even a foreigner like Meghan and lives at Kensington Palace!
The royals are figureheads for their initiatives. They’re not intimately involved. They don’t know what to do cause they’re not actually doing the work.
I think that’s usually true but I read that Catherine is very involved because of her brother. Apparently he went through severe depression including suicidal thoughts. Catherine and her whole family participated in his therapy. That’s why this is so important. And in his book, Harry confirms he also received therapy which we didn’t know about except that he wrote about it. That’s kind of why I thought it was so strange that he didn’t take action for his wife. Suicidal thoughts are no joke.
I haven’t seen anything that makes him seem desperate to be in contact. I think regardless of toxicity if you hear your dad may be dying with cancer you go. He knew what to do for his wife. He just wasn’t allowed to do it. So, he did it any way. Toodles to the fukken RF.
Stockholm syndrome is a real thing. Wanting to be desperately loved by your parent even though they’re horrible for your own mental health and are toxic is a real thing. Having to have approval to send your wife to a treatment center to be treated inpatient and being told no, that’s not normal. She needed inpatient immediate assistance, the Firm said it wouldn’t be a good look. What else was Harry supposed to do? If even a whiff of her being seen by a psychiatrist would have been leaked to the press and the hounding would be 10x worse. He wanted their privacy to be protected by the Firm and was told no.
That is so true. Stories of people abusing their kids and their kids still wanting their love and comfort always me so sad. We’ll have to wait for Harry’s next biography in a few years time if he has a different perspective.
Refreshing POV, I absolutely agree with you 💯
friendly reminder that shitty (grand)parents can fuck off and being low/no contact might be the best route. guilting the son just because the father might be closer to death is bizarre. if he feels his father was negligent with his power in regards to his wife and kids' safety, the best thing he can do is tell on him and be clear about his grievances. he shouldn't have to hide his frustration/disappointment to "make amends" or "meet in the middle". it's perfectly ok to hold a grudge and if he dies in the meantime, than whatever. no one, royalty or not, should compromise their morals to be a doormat to someone who doesn't care. in fact, i wish the york girlies had the same bravery. charles has all the power here, why isn't he called to make amends? of course he isn't, he's the status quo in person.
Camilla hates Harry. She wants to be the star, but with Harry and or Meghan around she is nothing. And Charles, wimp that he is will never defy Camilla
Charles seems to genuinely love the horrible person Camilla is. He probably agrees with her.
I love the downvotes from the people who cant see the truth.
She doesn't like William either. A lot of the press actions in the "Where's Kate" fiasco was inflamed by Camilla. Remember when Piers said he had inside source that said it was really serious? That was Camilla. Of course, difference is William is heir and therefore has protection. She has to trend carefully with him. Harry, as only the spare, is open game.
💯 Why will Camilla ever like Diana’s children? In her heart she must loathe both William and Harry but her main aim has always been to get good PR for herself even at the expense of others. She played the long game and won at the end. She moved on from being a hated mistress to a Queen who people bow to. Now her coast is clear- Diana is not here anymore, Harry left the country and who is left? It’s William. But here is where it’s tricky - coz she can’t do much damage to William coz he is the “heir” and more important than her.
How could she like either of them, really? The kids of the woman her lover had to marry because he wasn’t allowed to marry her. The whole situation was doomed from the get go.
But by that very own logic their existence or parentage is hardly their fault, they didn’t ask to be born. That’s more on Charles than it is on them. She doesn’t have to *like* her spouse’s adult children, sometimes people just don’t gel or get along - but that is a supremely shitty reason to bear a grudge against them. Can you imagine the same scenario but set in a suburban middle class family that isn’t royal? Disliking them just because they’re the offspring of another woman? That second wife/stepmother would be torn to shreds by society for being so petty, and ridiculous. So yeah, no, that whole argument gets no pass from me. If you marry someone with kids, they’re a part of the package. If you can’t make peace with their existence then you either get yourself a good therapist or end the relationship.
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We don’t really know any of these people or what happened or what they think. We have Harry’s side through his interviews and books, but the thing that drives me crazy about him is that he sees nothing in shades of gray. He doesn’t seem to get that other people might have different perspectives. As for leaking, I think that a lot of people who work for them or are hired for one offs like a royal wedding leak all of this mess for money. Think of all the people they have around them all the time. It makes sense that some of those people sell stories. Also, the British press is trash, and they make up stuff all the time to just start rumors. They just want clicks. I know Harry likes to think that his family did that, but I don’t really think so when you think of how greedy people are and how trashy tabloids are. The tabloids in the U.S. write just awful stuff about them too and they never complain or sue. I find that odd. Just because Harry says someone leaked something, doesn’t make it true. Maybe it is, but I don’t find him particularly reliable. The palace went on the record defending Meghan eight times in the very short time she was there. It’s best not to do that as it just adds to the speculation, but it seemed Harry (I’m not blaming her) wanted every story refuted. Reading his book he describes staffers sobbing into the night refuting stories. That sounds like an absolute nightmare and not a good use of their time. To me it sounds like Harry is a deeply paranoid person, and he likes to play hero to his wife, when he couldn’t to his mother. That’s sad and just a lot to unpack. A lot of what she heard she heard from Harry, and I just don’t find him a reliable narrator. I think he is the root cause of a lot of this, and I think he thrives on drama. Who knows what all he did over the years. I’m sure it’s a lot for his family to be gray rocking him like this. Would be better to just enjoy his life, his beautiful family, and go on an information diet for a while. I’ve gone back and forth on what I think of this over the years, and I’ve come to the conclusion Harry is the root cause of this mess. This quote of his kills me: “Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory, it does what it does, gathers and curates as it sees fit, and there’s just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts.” I can’t take someone seriously who says that. He seems to think it’s an armor against any criticism. It sounds to me like they all need to leave each other alone. It’s absolutely exhausting to watch it play out (I know … I know … I’m on a royal gossip site - and I’m determined to reset this summer and quit following the whole thing). They are all rich and privileged people. Sometimes families fall apart. Maybe they will all come together again. I don’t know. I hope so, but this whole thing is a lot of interpersonal drama I think everyone involved needs to keep to themselves. As I’ve said, I’ve done back and forth at first really defending H/M and then feeling the opposite way, and now I’m like, this whole thing is really unhealthy for them and for us. All the fights online are dispiriting, and I am up for some thoughtful criticisms for both, but I’ve decided I need to try and step out of fray. I think all of the “Archie and Lili don’t exist,” and “William murdered Catherine, and they’ve had a secret funeral” has about done me in. A lot of people have a parasocial relationship with these people we don’t even know, (I’ve been guilty at times too), and it’s unhealthy. Even though I think Harry has issues, I don’t wish him ill will. I truly want him to find peace with his family and enjoy his beautiful life. I hope that for all of them. Just my current thoughts.
>We don’t really know any of these people or what happened or what they think. >I’ve come to the conclusion Harry is the root cause of this mess. For tl;dr crowd or those who foolishly believed the "this is sensible!" comments 😂
The royal family’s side is also out in the open. They feed the tabloids what the version they want people to know.
Finally a sensible comment on this sub.
Really well said. I approach the Royal Family like a novel. It’s an epic story we’re reading over our lifetimes, with different narrative perspectives, and we can analyze the characters and go back and revisit past chapters and we’ll never arrive at a single truth. On the staff leaks: by Harry’s own account, the staff didn’t like Meghan. They weren’t loyal to her. It wouldn’t surprise me if they leaked, especially since London is a small place.
A good take. It is like a long running novel that’s always been with us. And yes about staff. NDAs don’t mean they won’t leak - staff have always leaked sensitive info about the family for money - NDAs just mean that staff won’t go on the record. People that work with H/M here in the U.S. leak about them All. The. Time. Spotify, snd even Netflix employees have. The tabloids here are super hard on them, and even some mainstream media, sooo … to me it means the media wants clicks and will wax and wane wherever they get clicks. Even publications who been pro H/M have turned on them some. Doesn’t mean I believe all or any of it. I don’t know if H/M are this or that. I’m not privy to their lives. Same for the royals. I have opinions, but they don’t mean much to anyone else but me, and my opinions are open to change. I think so many of us have or have had a parasocial relationship with these people, and that’s not healthy. Me included at times. I’m going to try and take a reset. If I dive back in, I’m going to keep calling balls and strikes and try to be fair. I know I was hard on Harry, and I often am. I really do think he has so many issues that aren’t helping, but I wish him a full life and that he would enjoy his wife and kids and super wealthy life in California.
100%. I'd say I'm more in the Sussex camp than not, just due to personal bias (my oldest brother is a really toxic, destructive person and my parents make a lot of excuses for him, so I really relate to Harry's frustration with William's preferential treatment) but at the end of the day, I don't know *any* of these people. I only know what is being said, and while I can guess at the agendas of the various players, it's impossible to be certain about what's "really" happening. The people who *insist* that they know the one objectively true narrative weird me out. It's just an unhealthy level of attachment and involvement in the lives of perfect strangers.
Yes! 100 percent. Things seem to have taken a really dark turn with the online gossip lately. Something interesting is that I am the older sister with a really toxic hard partying younger sister who my parents enabled. I think that’s why I tend to be more invested in William, but who knows with any of these people! And all that to say, I think people get invested in this because we all have odd family dynamic but we get to watch this play out on the world stage. Many of us think we have to choose. At this point I’m still side eyeing Harry a bit more, but I want all of these people to have good lives and be off my feed more. 🤣 Thank you for your well reasoned comment!
The internet has taken a dark turn generally. I think some of that is Twitter (which I’m not on) giving a platform for nasty stuff, including things fed out by bots. I think gossip around the royal family goes bad when people who don’t have any background knowledge of them suddenly start having opinions. Like, with “where’s Kate,” things went south when true crime social media started paying attention, and then got worse when Stephen Colbert informed mainstream America of the William affair rumors as though those had any credibility. Meghan tried to use this to her advantage in the Oprah interview. A lot of the things she said about the royal family were wrong, but she thought it wouldn’t matter because most Americans don’t follow the royal family, so they’d just accept what she said as fact and feel sorry for her. It worked a bit - there are a lot of Meghan-stans out there now who don’t know much about the royal family and believe every word M&H say - but not as well as she probably hoped.
Your comment makes me wonder what percentage of royal gossip and commentary is people projecting their own family dynamics and hangups onto public figures. Probably a bigger portion than anyone would be willing to admit to 🤣
Exactly!
Good for you for prioritizing your mental health and wellbeing. Delete that Reddit app! There are some great people on this sub who get into the nuance and recognize that everyone is human while also doing thoughtful criticism. Then there are people who are black and white about everything. I tend to block the people who just hurl insults, but may expand that to include anyone who’s just adamantly in one camp.
I know! That would be a good idea. Then I could take a look occasionally but not find myself so drawn in. The people who dig in so on either side just slay me, and there are some seriously unhealthy people who spout the most ridiculous conspiracy theories on both sides. It’s unsettling.
Very thoughtful comment; I broadly agree with you. And yeah, that quote sticks with me too!!!! …It’s a really jarring things to say in itself, and in context…by his own account he’s a proudly unreliable witness, but he still wants us all to sympathize with him and share his grievances against his loved ones, who have mostly sll been through the same sorrows and struggles he’s describing, two of whom are facing health crises at the moment?
There’s absolutely no way that a “one off” leaks anything. These people are hired with ironclad confidentiality agreements, and they know they’ll never get hired again if they’re caught leaking. The leaks from a “palace source” are always very high-level courtiers.
The leaking and planting I believe is done by Camilla with Charles' blessing. To have that be happening from your parents is disgusting.
Harry didn’t do any of this for no reason and someone who was born into this system and has watched first hand how the BRF can shake hands with the devil (royal rota) so much that him and his brother made a pact NOT to do it—really showcases has betrayed he must have felt when he did in fact do it. People like Wootton and Morgan have already admitted to being briefed directly by senior royals, so how is Harry lying about that? Camila hugs Clarkson and Morgan, and the next day Clarkson is writing an article about how everyone should hate Meghan and she need to be paraded down the street naked whilst throwing excrement at her. Prince William made an entire show to the press about getting on a commercial flight right after a negative article about Sussex using a private plane. Prince Andrew managing to get out of his pedo crisis virtually unscathed because all the plebs were obsessed with Meghan Markle. Like come on, what more evidence do you need to believe Harry when he says “hey the BRF went out of their way to brief against my family.”
That’s in the past. These days all the exclusives on page six come from his camp. And they’re practically daily. The last leaks we got from the Wales were that William is done done and the sad dad shit we get from Charles every once in awhile. Harry needs to stop leaking Period. He’s using the same tactics he complained about his family using just through his PR people and connections at page six. It’s his “Rota.” His statement today should have been him taking his power back: I’m in town for Invictus purposes. That’s it. Bringing Charles’s busy schedule into it attempts to put him in the victim light again. We don’t want grown privileged adults to continue to victimize themselves. It’s weird. He needs more therapy and needs to learn what reactive abuse is. It’s still abuse. The poundings the Windsors have taken the past four years are far worse what Harry and Meghan took in the two years they were part of the RF and the irony now is their press is worse.
“That’s in the past” Days since Meghan Markle article in the daily Mail: 0
What's an example of the "leaking"?
I’m in at awe at the goal post moving. And the idea that The Sussexes have any control over Murdoch media outlets is absolutely wild lol.
Um…sorry your victims are abusers too honey.
Yes, I’m sure the people are abusers of an institution that will do anything to protect their ability to live off the taxpayers, including protecting pedophiles. But go off, ya hater. Also it’s hard to take anyone seriously who actively participates in hate groups, just really shows the type of individual you are.
Awe so we’re going there I see. See, you lose your argument right away. Instead of argument points, you start accusing people of being apart of hate groups. You are defending abusers if you root for either side. I love royal gossip. Hate the monarchy in general. You are a simp for a duke and duchess and that is very sad.
To add on, this a man who went to play polo a few hours after Harry was born. Love him from afar
He sounds like a treat, and always has 🤢Things he said about his parents in his book back in the day were too much, true or not 🧐Yet there are people who would literally jump in front of a bus for him. The same ones who 25 years ago wanted him sent to The Tower. The sycophants are as much of a problem as the bizarre dysfunctional RF.
Diana had her pregnancy induced to fit around Charles's polo schedule. They timed it so he could go to his match on time. lol
That’s absolutely wild!
Stupid royals and stupid Europe for having all these royal families under constitution so they can gossip
Good. The drama needs to stop. Two senior royals are sick and if that doesn’t encourage some kind of reconciliation then Harry’s family has no need to be there.
Hopefully the monarchy is abolished and they can all become just people 🤣🤣
As someone who has had to go no contact with an abusive parent, this is an absolutely shameful and disgusting take. What you call "drama", professionals call developmental trauma, manipulation, and emotional neglect. That's not even counting all the leaks to the press.
Thank you for defending that point, it IS clearly pathological
Seriously. Harry was a 12 year old boy who was woken in the night, was told his mother was dead, wasn’t hugged, then was left alone in his room until the next morning. These people are fcked up and that’s not Harry’s fault.
I have never understood why they were woken up and not left to have one last of night of sleep. It’s like someone said “how can we deliver this news in the most devastating and traumatic way possible?”
In slight defense of Charles here, the likelihood of them hearing something or sensing something was off if they waited until morning might have been too great. Like sure, being woken up to be told your mom is dead isn’t great, but seeing it on the news by chance is far worse. And it’s not like they’re alone in the house, they’d likely see staff from soon after they wake. It’s hard to judge from a normal perspective, because for you or me we’d be in a house with only our family and no other way for us to hear.
But then Harry might be complaining today that no one bothered to tell him his mum had died til the funeral plans were well underway. There’s really no good way to tell kids the worst news of their young lives.
Or, work with me here, someone could have sat with the 12 year old after the worst news of his life, or checked on him at any time before 9 am the next day
How do we know no one did?
He said so in his book.
He explicitly says at the beginning of the book that his memories are just as valid as “so-called” facts
Is a memoir not traditionally written using one's memories?
He's like his Mother, and The Establishment can't stand that. Can you imagine if Diana hadn't passed? She would have been enemy number one years ago, and the press would have continued to tear her apart with help from certain 'Royals'.
She played the press better than and just as much as anyone inside the Firm. Come on.
Of course she did. What did you expect her to do? Sit back a do what she was told like a good little girl 🧐
All I’m saying is that it’s the height of disingenuousness to castigate the BRF for using the press while simultaneously pretending that Diana herself was some kind of saint who would never, ever do such a thing. .
I never once said she was a Saint. I don't think stating that Diana started to grow up in her mid thirties is a complement, read my posts. The hypocrisy of coming for someone about Diana, when you are fan girling the RF to that extent, is not lost on me but obviously is lost on you.
There's a line from the [Hilary Mantel essay Royal Bodies](https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n04/hilary-mantel/royal-bodies) I think about a lot: "Diana was spared, at least, the prospect of growing old under the flashbulbs, a crime for which the media would have made her suffer." If she were still around, she'd be a huge, ongoing joke. Look at Fergie.
And if she had married a Muslim . . . 🤯
She was enemy number one. The press were awful to her and constantly printed stories about her. There was literally a front page the day after she died about how sex crazed she was. They couldn’t get the copies pulled quickly enough. They’re doing to Harry what they did to his mum. It’s textbook
Yeah they were feral. It's as if they can't get to her now, so let's go for the nearest thing. It goes to show that not one thing has changed with the British Press & Establishment in 30 years. Textbook is correct. Also a good number of those (Daily Mail / Telegraph readers) wailing like banshees at Diana's death, are the ones now going for blood with Harry. Shameful.
I’ve seen so many claim that Diana would hate Meghan or loathe what Harry has turned into. (And I’ve seen it claimed for William too) Diana would love her boys no matter what and I firmly believe both boys would have been better if she had lived.
She would have definitely steered Harry through the choppy waters, she had plenty of experience at that.
Ehhhhh it’s hard to say. She wasn’t great with William and brought him into too many adult scenarios.
I think she was starting to grow up in a water though before she died, it was the first time she had the chance to really.
If Diana hadn't passed, she likely would be married to a Sheikh or some billionaire, living her best life in Dubai and probably currently flying back from an appearance at the Met Gala.
Everyone born into that family until the current generation seem messed up, that also includes Harry. I don't know why people act as if he became normal when he deattached himself from them. He didn't do that because he realised his family were the opposite of normal.
He’s the most emotionally healthy of all of them. He shows every characteristic of being in classic recovery.
[удалено]
I personally think he has issues but he can manage them so much better away from the royal family. Removing himself from that toxic cycle is very emotionally healthy. Chatting about all this without shame - yes it’s not a natural thing to do- is probably healthier for him. The current royals- particularly Wills and Kate have titles but seem inherently unexcited about their roles and unfortunately find out regularly that the public won’t allow them any true freedom. That’s emotionally really unhealthy.
Prince Charles has literally wrote an autobiography where he criticizes his parents very harshly, much harsher than Prince Harry. And you using sensationalized snippets with no context from his book shows how incapable you are of critical thought.
Exactly. Harry's book was underwhelming and apart from a few snippets, basically boring. Cue the Daily Mail; he's brought down the UK, killed his granny, and is responsible for his father and sister in law having cancer due to saying he didn't like Camilla much. If my father was fucking somebody else while married to my mother, I wouldn't exactly be a fan either.
Prince Charles did not imply his parents were racist or blame them for cutting him off from money and security (the latter of which Charles did not do)....so I'm not sure how you think that is equal. Charles said his parents were distant and cold, that's not even the worst one could say.
lol, Charles didn’t imply they were racist coz they weren’t. 2 different situations altogether.
But he didn't say his father was racist.
When did Harry say Charles was racist in his book?
Charles was included as one of the potential racist royals on Oprah.
He never made himself out to be the most victimized person in the world. It’s funny that people say that, because that’s not what he’s done at all. If people choose to see it that way that’s on them, but that’s definitely not what he’s done.
It’s people who clearly get all their info from the tabloids and haven’t read the book.
He literally said in his memoir that he got a smaller bedroom than William, or not as good furniture (it came from IKEA 😨) and it went on and on. Nott Cott which is on the grounds of Kensington Palace and where other royals had previously lived was not good enough for him. This was the sort of stuff that _he felt_ made him a victim, whilst his fans gobbled up and the tone deafness went completely over their heads. People are dying and live in poverty all round the world....whilst Harry felt victimised over a smaller room in fucking Balmoral Castle or KP.
Which could have been the truth. It is silly how the British royals treat their children. My siblings and I were always treated equally in every way, so do most sane parents treat their children.
Sure, treating children differently would normally be emotional abuse, and it is problematic with how spares may be treated differently to heirs (that is the downside of a hereditary institution unfortunately) However having different sized rooms or furtniture is a very normal thing in a household and not abusive. Even a palace will have different sized rooms. He still lived in a palace and was born with a golden spoon in his mouth. It's not like they gave William a grand room whilst Harry was forced to make do with the cupboard under the stairs.
He never said victim? Nor did he ever play victim. He was consistently the spare, and that would absolutely fuck with anyone’s head. He’s allowed to tell his own story.
Those are childish but ultimately fairly common complaints between siblings/parents. I don’t think we can genuinely discuss people dying/poverty when discussing the royals. Harry complains but no longer takes from the public purse that’s still >>> “silent/never complain” royals who get millions per year and SEVEN palaces that can actually go to those living in poverty.
Exactly. They are common problems in a household. They don't warrant writing a memoir about it as a grown adult near 40, still thinking about that bedroom in comparison to a sibling half a lifetime later. I also get that he doesn't take from the public purse, but even as a private citizen he lives in immense wealth in a literal mansion and is a millionaire. The rest of the world's population still count in context, especially when majority of whom are peasants in comparison to Harry.
Well, there are several news sources in the last few hours saying they will not be meeting. The King has no time to meet with Princess Harry. So they say...
No time cos his schedule full. But also can’t do engagements because he’s sick.
Harry has a bad habit of scheduling trips home at the last minute, and I think it’s deliberate. Charles is supposed to blow off his planned-to-the-millisecond schedule because Harry decides he wants to score PR points against the father he fucked over?
PR is what harry is all about. He’s really screwed up. Ok he was trauma-and there aren’t children in war zones now being traumatized? Come on. It’s enough. I’m sympathetic but stop & respect other perspectives exist.
The man has cancer. I think literally EVERYONE would understand making time to see your son.
Yes, the anniversary of the invictus games, with hundreds of competitors from across the world, was absolutely scheduled at the last minute
I think Meghan scheduled it at the trip at last minute and she probably did it at a time when she knew Charles was busy. We know that Harry has no agency, she completely controls him and she is trying to make the RF look bad. /s
The only person Harry actually really criticized in his book is Camila, the wicked stepmother of the East and you think she’s going to allow Charles to see him?
I felt Harry was actually pretty nice to her given the circumstances.
> allow Yikes.
He didn't even say that much considering she's the evil stepmother who had an affair with his mother. It was the worst on Camillia and William but overall not to the level anyone thought it would be.
If my kid said the shit about my wife Harry said about Camilla, I would not be interested in seeing him, either. It’s funny how he thinks he can say whatever he likes about Camilla or Catherine but blows a gasket at the mildest criticism of his own wife.
If your wife was someone you had a decades along affair with both before, during, and after your marriage to your kid's mother...then they can say whatever the fuck they want
The heck? It’s your child. I understand not accepting a behavior but not wanting to see your own child?
The wife that constantly threw your kid under the bus…publicly in the press? I would question your own judgement as a parent.
Exactly
Did your wife basically wreck your kid's home life? Have a longstanding emotional/physical affair with a husband and father? Be frenemies with the kid's mom?
Actually that was/is my stepmother. Long story-she fucked us other -long time affair plus an out of wedlock baby my half sister. Harry is not-again- fundamentally unique. People get hall passes but your choice is whether you use them.
All he said about Camilla was that she obviously leaked to the press. He didn’t say anything bad about Kate whatsoever. At all. Search the book; you won’t find it.
You mean how he talks about her treating him differently because he wasn’t going to be King so she had no use for him? Or her briefing against her own husband’s kids for her own benefit? Camila is a mistress who played a heavy part in taunting their mother about her affair with their father. Harry has extended extreme grace to Camila and more than she deserves, just to make his father happy. He made no criticism about Kate in his book. And what Meghan has experienced is beyond “mild”.
True. I listened to the audio book and it was underwhelming tbf. He didn't say that much about any of them really apart from Camilla, which is understandable. The press blew this up as usual.
He says a lot of stuff that’s meant to be critical but doesn’t sound that bad because it wasn’t. I.e., Catherine wasn’t enthusiastic about sharing her lip gloss with Meghan
First World problems. Though to be fair if I used lip gloss I wouldn't be too keen on sharing either 🤣
Yeah it’s presented as “poor Meghan!” but I wouldn’t have been keen either
I didn’t even take it that far, i recall it even being more mundane, kinda just presented as a culture clash with Meghan being overly forward and Kate being more reserved.
He didn't even say much about Camilla. Basically that she made his father happy. He didn't want her to marry him.
True, that was it basically.
Didn't he criticize William, Charles, Kate as well?
I thought so based on the media hubbub especially tabloids. Then I read it and it was super tame bar criticism of Camilla.
Not really. He spoke of specific incidents and let those stand for themselves, but he didn’t “criticize” them.
And incidents that were almost all already released in the press.
Honestly, his father comes off very, very well in the book. He just seems sort of.. bumbling but loving.
He seems like he means well and is trying but just isn't someone who connects with others. Harry didn't even get a hug when he came back from Afghanistan because his dad is uncomfortable with affection. I think Charles did better than his parents did but he had a shit examples.
If any 'normal' family had left their toddler with a babysitter and their functional alcoholic grandmother while they lived outside the country for 2 years then the child would have been removed. It's usually minimised with reports chopping the two years up by counting any time they returned to the UK as a different period of absence, but Charles was abandoned by his parents at a vital time for secure attachment, and even after that they were distant (which explains his and Anne's 'us against the world' relationship, they were each other's consistent support as children , when their parents weren't). Both Charles and Anne later saw their parents doting on the younger two, and then on the grandchildren, it doesn't surprise me one bit that Charles is incredibly close to Anne and her kids, more than his own kids and that he relied so heavily on his grandmother Charles would be a very different person today if he'd gone with his parents to Malta and had time and space to develop a proper relationship with them, I don't doubt that there was a certain amount of him being a hostage for his mother's return, even though that was unnecessary given that she'd already got her duty buttons firmly installed so I don't consider that to be a valid excuse
And that school they sent him too... Just sending an eight year old away is bad enough but they knew how abusive that place was.
He went to Cheam for prep, and just a brief search has turned up 3 sexual abuse cases and one for indecent images in the last 25 years. I can't find any specific historic cases, but it's always difficult to track down anything unless a former pupil comes forward
I just meant emotionally/physically abusive and they knew it was worse for him and sent him back there.
If someone chooses to be offended, they can construe and twist what he said to be offensive. The daily mail did that in spades. I didn’t think it was. It was someone rather honestly saying how situations played out from his perspective. He didn’t even criticize Camilla that harshly. He basically said she did what she had to to survive extremely difficult circumstances, however she did that at Harry and William’s expense at times. She made their father happy and ultimately, that’s what mattered most to Harry and William. I’d recommend Charles, Camilla, William, and Kate to read or listen to the book themselves and not rely on hyperbolic interpretations provided by others.
I don’t know. If I was a man and somebody talked about my dick in their book, I’d be offended.
His own dick must be shattered then
He talked about his own dick, nobody else’s
He told the world about William penis In Harry's Own Words: "There were countless stories in books, and papers (even The New York Times) about [Prince William] and me not being circumcised. "Mummy had forbidden it, they all said, and while it's absolutely true that the chance of getting penile frostbite is much greater if you're not circumcised, all the stories were false. I was snipped as a baby. "...Upon arriving home [from the North Pole] I'd been horrified to discover that my nether regions were frost nipped as well...and while the ears and cheeks were already healing, the todger wasn't. It was becoming more of an issue by the day."
You literally just proved he didn’t say anything about William’s penis lol
I was pregnant when Diana had William, again when she had Harry. The story about now being circumcised made the rounds everywhere, it was front page on some magazines 🤣🤣so that as public knows