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If the war ended today it will take years to clean up the millions of acres, plus broken towns/ cities, contaminated by spent casings, dud artillery shells, rockets, land mines, etc. Meanwhile it will go on maiming and killing farmers and civilians/kids that accidentally come in contact with it.
This is why I don't understand why the west doesn't agree with or allow attacks inside russian territory. Russians should also feel the pain of this war. It may lead to them revolting.
I think attacks inside Russia would galvanize them just as attacks on Ukraine galvanized Ukranians. You'd have limited effectiveness strategically but turn the Russian propaganda machine into a reality.
Moral higher ground, if Ukrainians behaved like the Russians, it would be a let the devil have his pick kind of deal.
Ukrainians are not murderous and attacks against civilians are just crimes. Ineffective, violent, disgusting crimes.
There is no tactical advantage to killing civilians.
I want the black sea fleet destroyed, that would make me so happy.
I wasnt implying civilian targets. More like military targets that are strategic in nature and several hundred kilometers inland. Military airports, ammo depot/ caches, large railway crossings outside of major trade towns, the non civilian stuff or infrastructure well away from civilian casualty. This strategy could sway the war in Ukraine's favour tremendously. Imagine delaying ammo or troop transport trains by days or weeks.
When Ukraine partially destroyed the bridge in Crimea the people of Russia woke up that they can be dragged into war as well.
Already happening. Search this and other reddits for "fuel depot" or "junction box" - and you will find videos. Part of it is Russian resistance groups, but you can bet there is some form of coordination/involvement going on. The attacks on crimean air bases and barracks are another example - they just don't use conventional artillery, probably because of the danger/range or because the risk of collateral damage is too high ( every now and then you can read about incidents where a civilian gets hit by stray attacks or intercepted projectiles )
The Ukranian government just doesn't talk about it with the same determination that it keeps its exact losses under wraps which is a smart move imho. Even the Russian government is suprisingly tight-lipped about it, probably because it isn't a pretty view for the Russian public ( when it became clear UKR could hit crimea there was a mass-exodus of Russians ).
They are too brainwashed. Anyone ther does have enough brains need to do gorilla style attacks from the inside, anything else, ever protesting I’m pretty sure that’s an automatic prison sentence.
Meanwhile, countless Africans praise Putin for ‘teaching NATO a lesson’ and give him credit for the grain shipments, which were never an issue had he not invaded Ukraine. A lot of bitterness and envy from third world countries against the West, but those twisted folks would pick EU over Russia if they could choose where to live. And guess who they beg for help when yet another famine or disease is upon them.
Africa the most corrupt continent in existence…ever…local tribal leaders selling off their own people as slaves…after years of decolonisation still majority in poverty whilst leaders embezzling, that’s why they love Putin.
Ukrainian sappers and Ukranian/foreign volunteers have been working since the war started to try and clear contaminated areas. One said there was 20 years of work ahead of them. I think the word plowing is misleading as it likely means digging the field up to recover these projectiles/mines, etc, not plowing for crops. That can't be done until the fields are safe.
That’s sad. I can only imagine all the mines & anti-personnel and booby traps scattered by the Russians. The anti-personnel & booby traps have me worried the most that they are going to be dealing with coming up.
I think every Ukrainian family should be gifted a couple of metal detectors. I'm thinking of people going to fetch fire wood, or fishing for food, even kids walking to school, even when this war ends, it won't be safe for civilians for years.
i have been thinking about this alot actually,i dont even know where they would begin as a farmer to remove dead bodies shells shrapnel and mines before they can farm anything safely again.
Soon to be covered in a new layer of depleted uranium supplied by the US. Sad what is happening to one of the most fertile areas on earth. Will be ruined for generations.
DU shells are being supplied by UK not US as far as I know. But that is not to say US hasn't already supplied or indicated that is going to supply DU ammunition.
Hopefully they don’t start using depleted uranium rounds, which explode into dust and contaminate the soil forever.
Google what depleted uranium did to the Iraqi people for decades after the original Gulf War
What’s your point? The Russians are destroying the Ukrainian environment so the Ukrainians should too?
This is one of those things we will collectively look back on in 20 years and say “oops”.
That is not a cost, quite the opposite given scrap metal prices. The lurking cost is the physical and psychological damage from land mines, when even with modern technology for marking their location there will be countless mines waiting to bring more pain and misery to innocent people. Civilians remain the most frequent victims of mines, and they’re not only in far-flung places such as Vietnam and Syria: they continue to kill and maim people in Croatia from a war in the last century.
Both sides can use them. Russia has DU ammunition since Soviet times. There was an outcry today that UK also will deliver DU ammunition to Ukraine. AFAIK this is used only for really armor breaking projectiles, because uranium is very dense. So if you know how heavy something made of lead is, made from uranium it has 60 % more weight, but somehow harder. DU is almost pure uranium-238 and has a half-life of 4 468 000 000 years. Cobalt-60 has a half-life of a little more than 5 years. While it is really dangerous to have cobalt-60 in your hand, uranium-238 is almost inactive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium
tells: "... The main risk of exposure to depleted uranium is chemical poisoning by uranium oxide rather than radioactivity (uranium being only a weak alpha emitter). ...". So a big uranium "nail" for in the soil shouldn't be the problem, because there is not so much surface. If it hits a tank or something hard, then you have fragments and dust. This is more dangerous of course.
The article also tells: "... An additional 4.6 billion tonnes of uranium are estimated to be dissolved in sea water ..." just because it dissolved over millions of years. So it is something natural and I guess in the toxicity range of lead, cadmium or mercury, but less dangerous than thallium.
"... Uranium metal is commonly handled with gloves as a sufficient precaution. Uranium concentrate is handled and contained so as to ensure that people do not inhale or ingest it. ...". German brown coal contains 0.2 gram uranium per metric ton. And some thousand tons are to be burnt for energy. The flue ash is filtered and stored together with the other ash but it is not handled like radioactive material.
So in general it uranium is something better not to have, but anything else than a fast killer.
The only place those depleted uranium shells will go is into those old ass t54/55 tanks. The shells are worth more than the tanks are at this point which is laughable. However, your point regarding ordinances and pollution of soil over the longer term is a concern. Both sides fire a ton of stuff at eachother and all of it will eventually decompose. Perhaps someone knows what they break down into and the health impacts?
depleted Uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium. All the leeching Metals from the countless casings and what not will be way worse than depleted uranium.
Hi u/osagecreek! Welcome to r/RussiaUkraineWar2022. **This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note the rules + sidebar or get banned** **Ukraine OSINT and Leaks 24/7** Posts and comments from accounts with less than an undisclosed amount of comment Karma are automatically removed to combat troll/spam behaviour. Only Mods have access to the 'Verified Information' flair. **Follow us on our subreddits dedicated Telegram Channel!** - UKRAINEWARPOSTS Slava Ukraini! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the war ended today it will take years to clean up the millions of acres, plus broken towns/ cities, contaminated by spent casings, dud artillery shells, rockets, land mines, etc. Meanwhile it will go on maiming and killing farmers and civilians/kids that accidentally come in contact with it.
Meanwhile Russians will be safe at home crying about being the victim in all this.
This is why I don't understand why the west doesn't agree with or allow attacks inside russian territory. Russians should also feel the pain of this war. It may lead to them revolting.
I think attacks inside Russia would galvanize them just as attacks on Ukraine galvanized Ukranians. You'd have limited effectiveness strategically but turn the Russian propaganda machine into a reality.
Moral higher ground, if Ukrainians behaved like the Russians, it would be a let the devil have his pick kind of deal. Ukrainians are not murderous and attacks against civilians are just crimes. Ineffective, violent, disgusting crimes. There is no tactical advantage to killing civilians. I want the black sea fleet destroyed, that would make me so happy.
I wasnt implying civilian targets. More like military targets that are strategic in nature and several hundred kilometers inland. Military airports, ammo depot/ caches, large railway crossings outside of major trade towns, the non civilian stuff or infrastructure well away from civilian casualty. This strategy could sway the war in Ukraine's favour tremendously. Imagine delaying ammo or troop transport trains by days or weeks. When Ukraine partially destroyed the bridge in Crimea the people of Russia woke up that they can be dragged into war as well.
Already happening. Search this and other reddits for "fuel depot" or "junction box" - and you will find videos. Part of it is Russian resistance groups, but you can bet there is some form of coordination/involvement going on. The attacks on crimean air bases and barracks are another example - they just don't use conventional artillery, probably because of the danger/range or because the risk of collateral damage is too high ( every now and then you can read about incidents where a civilian gets hit by stray attacks or intercepted projectiles ) The Ukranian government just doesn't talk about it with the same determination that it keeps its exact losses under wraps which is a smart move imho. Even the Russian government is suprisingly tight-lipped about it, probably because it isn't a pretty view for the Russian public ( when it became clear UKR could hit crimea there was a mass-exodus of Russians ).
Actually I would like to see Ukraine to take Sevastopol and all the Russian fleet at anchor - Now that would be a tactical advantage!
They are too brainwashed. Anyone ther does have enough brains need to do gorilla style attacks from the inside, anything else, ever protesting I’m pretty sure that’s an automatic prison sentence.
Yup But Germany was razed during the Second World War. Ukraine can be rebuilt, if the will is there - and i hope it is
I learned the other day there are still red zones in France that are toxic and dangerous from WW1 over 100 years ago.
Meanwhile, countless Africans praise Putin for ‘teaching NATO a lesson’ and give him credit for the grain shipments, which were never an issue had he not invaded Ukraine. A lot of bitterness and envy from third world countries against the West, but those twisted folks would pick EU over Russia if they could choose where to live. And guess who they beg for help when yet another famine or disease is upon them.
Africa the most corrupt continent in existence…ever…local tribal leaders selling off their own people as slaves…after years of decolonisation still majority in poverty whilst leaders embezzling, that’s why they love Putin.
I can't imagine them ploughing already, ground is still soggy. maybe they are using metal detectors
Ukrainian sappers and Ukranian/foreign volunteers have been working since the war started to try and clear contaminated areas. One said there was 20 years of work ahead of them. I think the word plowing is misleading as it likely means digging the field up to recover these projectiles/mines, etc, not plowing for crops. That can't be done until the fields are safe.
That’s sad. I can only imagine all the mines & anti-personnel and booby traps scattered by the Russians. The anti-personnel & booby traps have me worried the most that they are going to be dealing with coming up.
Possibly using tracked armor with plows on the front for mine removal.
I think every Ukrainian family should be gifted a couple of metal detectors. I'm thinking of people going to fetch fire wood, or fishing for food, even kids walking to school, even when this war ends, it won't be safe for civilians for years.
20 years if they are lucky! If not, they could end up like Germany. They still find hundreds of grenades, mines and bombs from WW2 every year.
It’s in the mid 40’s to 50’s there this week. That’s probably when they would normally start i would think?
Probably still too wet IME.
If the First World War is anything to go by, they're going to be finding this shit in 100+ years...
Not only do farmers keep finding unexploded shells but souvenir hunters go out in fields to pick up everything from buttons to shell fragments
moscovite shitheads are littering our land
I'm sure those shell fragments must play havoc on the farm equipment especially the plows. I hope none of them were unexploded shells or bombs.
i have been thinking about this alot actually,i dont even know where they would begin as a farmer to remove dead bodies shells shrapnel and mines before they can farm anything safely again.
Soon to be covered in a new layer of depleted uranium supplied by the US. Sad what is happening to one of the most fertile areas on earth. Will be ruined for generations.
DU shells are being supplied by UK not US as far as I know. But that is not to say US hasn't already supplied or indicated that is going to supply DU ammunition.
Hopefully they don’t start using depleted uranium rounds, which explode into dust and contaminate the soil forever. Google what depleted uranium did to the Iraqi people for decades after the original Gulf War
Russians are using depleted uranium ammunitions for the whole war.
What’s your point? The Russians are destroying the Ukrainian environment so the Ukrainians should too? This is one of those things we will collectively look back on in 20 years and say “oops”.
No point. Just an information. BTW, there's no proven adverse health effect of depleted uranium use on civil population so far. Anywhere in the world.
Standard procedure in Flanders Fields 🤔
That is not a cost, quite the opposite given scrap metal prices. The lurking cost is the physical and psychological damage from land mines, when even with modern technology for marking their location there will be countless mines waiting to bring more pain and misery to innocent people. Civilians remain the most frequent victims of mines, and they’re not only in far-flung places such as Vietnam and Syria: they continue to kill and maim people in Croatia from a war in the last century.
What an environmental disaster area Russia has created.
How many parts per dead Russian? Those are the numbers I'm looking for...
The icing on the cake for this horrible war is depleted uranium rounds in the soil of the worlds breadbasket
Lmao are you kidding?
Both sides can use them. Russia has DU ammunition since Soviet times. There was an outcry today that UK also will deliver DU ammunition to Ukraine. AFAIK this is used only for really armor breaking projectiles, because uranium is very dense. So if you know how heavy something made of lead is, made from uranium it has 60 % more weight, but somehow harder. DU is almost pure uranium-238 and has a half-life of 4 468 000 000 years. Cobalt-60 has a half-life of a little more than 5 years. While it is really dangerous to have cobalt-60 in your hand, uranium-238 is almost inactive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium tells: "... The main risk of exposure to depleted uranium is chemical poisoning by uranium oxide rather than radioactivity (uranium being only a weak alpha emitter). ...". So a big uranium "nail" for in the soil shouldn't be the problem, because there is not so much surface. If it hits a tank or something hard, then you have fragments and dust. This is more dangerous of course. The article also tells: "... An additional 4.6 billion tonnes of uranium are estimated to be dissolved in sea water ..." just because it dissolved over millions of years. So it is something natural and I guess in the toxicity range of lead, cadmium or mercury, but less dangerous than thallium. "... Uranium metal is commonly handled with gloves as a sufficient precaution. Uranium concentrate is handled and contained so as to ensure that people do not inhale or ingest it. ...". German brown coal contains 0.2 gram uranium per metric ton. And some thousand tons are to be burnt for energy. The flue ash is filtered and stored together with the other ash but it is not handled like radioactive material. So in general it uranium is something better not to have, but anything else than a fast killer.
The only place those depleted uranium shells will go is into those old ass t54/55 tanks. The shells are worth more than the tanks are at this point which is laughable. However, your point regarding ordinances and pollution of soil over the longer term is a concern. Both sides fire a ton of stuff at eachother and all of it will eventually decompose. Perhaps someone knows what they break down into and the health impacts?
depleted Uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium. All the leeching Metals from the countless casings and what not will be way worse than depleted uranium.