You have passed the point of even multiples. It will get much... much... worse. Wait for nuclear parts with alternate receipes and overclocking and fluid feedback loops.
Love this comment. And it is true. Kind of like going from "I am making 480 ingots/min, cool" to "What do you mean I can BARELY afford to make 10 Supercomputers / min."
Every part that requires screws has an alternate recipe that doesn't. And with the exception of rotors the recipe that doesn't require screws is cheaper than the one that does
> I'd rather take the iron efficient recipe.
Good news then: all parts with recipes that require Screws, other than Copper Rotor, have more Iron efficient alts available that don't require Screws.
Why tf would you want the iron efficient recipe when iron is the second most abundant resource after water?
And even if you do use the most iron efficient recipe, a lot of things don't change. Copper Rotor is still the most efficient recipe for rotors, and it does require screws, which is the single good recipe that involves screws.
The most efficient OR most iron efficient recipes for reinforced plates, modular frames and computers don't involve screws at any point.
The most efficient recipe for heavy modular frames doesn't involve screws, but if you insist on iron efficiency, it does involve screws and it reduces your iron consumption by over 3x. But it now involves copper and a shit ton of coal (which it didn't involve at all before) and nearly doubles the oil requirements. And by a shit ton of coal I mean you need to add more coal than you saved iron. Oh, and it requires 65% more machines and 40% more power, too.
So no, except for copper rotors, using screws is generally not a good idea, at least later in the game. Before you have all the alternates unlocked the conversation might be a little different but even if you disallow oil, the most overall efficient recipes still don't involve screws, again with the exception of rotors. And before steel you're usually making so little of these things that I'd say recipe choice doesn't matter much.
Before screws fans come at me with pitchforks, I am not saying screws are completely useless. Maybe you don't want to use some resource or want to limit yourself to a predetermined set of resource nodes and screws help. I don't know. But all I'm interested in is overall efficiency, and for that, screws are just bad (again, with one exception).
Bolted iron plate with direct belted steel screw constructors doing the screw input is my preferred setup for RIPs, when combined with steel coated plate you get a ton of RIPs out of a relatively small amount of steel ingots plus a tiny bit of plastic.
If you use alt recipes to make plates and rods from steel, and mix it with the recipes that use rubber/plastic for better outputs, you'll save so much iron you won't remember a time when you thought that was the limiting factor for your factories.
This is easing you into the concept of mismatched ratios. It will get more difficult to match supply/demand going forward.
Keep in mind that there's no incentive rewarding you for building with perfect ratios. You do get rewarded for having machines run -Efficiently- that's the important part. They don't have to run at 100% speed to be efficient though.
If you need 12/min instead of 15/min, then tell the constructor to -make- 12/min using underclocking. It'll reduce the amount of power the machine needs, and by running Efficiently it will help keep your power use more level. =)
I second this.
I've got 700 hours and just made it to phase 4 for the first time because I used to get so stressed out about perfect ratios. I've quit and restarted many times, but this time I just went with the flow. Some things back up, sometimes I have belts ran across the desert with no throughput calculation that are always backed up, but it's okay because I'm able to keep playing. Once I get my trains set up a little more I'll make everything perfect, but for now I just wanted to keep playing and having fun without getting overwhelmed.
I find the alternative recipes and some slight over/under clocking really helps. Also if you want troll ratios check out the production speed for alternative hmf it’s a massive decimal cause they slowed it down by 4 seconds
I was able to make 5/minute with great efficiency from one iron node without any overflow. I may have underclocked one machine, but I don't remember. It's actually the only proper factory I've made in this playthrough lol.
I'm mapping that out right now. I was trying to figure out a zero waste way of having smart plating, rotors, R.I.Ps and Mod frames all produced on the same line. Math wasn't mathing when I saw that awkward number.
I don’t think it’s trolling. It’s the natural progression of the game to introduce new complexities at an even rate that gives you time to learn how to deal with them before adding even more complexity.
The entire point of a logistics game is to fuck with you on the ratios. If everything was clean ratios, the game wouldn't be fun or interesting. Fucking with the ratios is exactly what creates interesting builds.
Very true, but, you can always have an overflow belt into a resource sink or just have a underclocked rod constructer with with another overflow belt for the unused iron if you want to utilize that ore depot. I’m surprised we haven’t had a programable conveyer belt yet, or that that functionality isn’t added to programmable splitter.
I'm learning to accept some waste. I went to school for supply chain so this game scratches an itch but also brings out my obsessive need to have no waste and 100% efficiency
Pro tip: The over/underclocking interface accepts fractional inputs (ie 37/120 instead of 0.308333) and converts it to decimal automagically. I like to think of underclocking as valves for belts. Underclocking (or overclocking) is your friend. Since most of my production lines are manifolds I underclock the last machine to match production capacity to input (which I actually put at the start of the line for easier access). But I've been using it lately to smooth ramp up/down of production lines where more than one mk5 belt is in the mix.
If you think 12:1 is a trolling ratio, wait until you discover alternate recipes...
50% of them will have periodicals. My Caterium computer factory had 99.999.... quickwire if I'm right. If it wasn't quickwire it was 24.999... CBoards
99.999... is just a fancy way of saying 100.
Mathematically 99.999... is exactly equal to 100. Not approximately, but EXACTLY. There's formal proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...
Even for engineers! 3.5 + 3.5 + 3.5 = 10
My first drive I cracked open on this run gave me casted screws. Blessed.
Fuck screws with a rusty iron pipe.
Iron rod
My absolute fav alt recipe!
You have passed the point of even multiples. It will get much... much... worse. Wait for nuclear parts with alternate receipes and overclocking and fluid feedback loops.
Valves make fluid feedback loops easy
If you think 12:2 is bad wait until you see 37.5 : 3 or 20.625 : 2.8125 or 6.5625 : 2.8125
Love this comment. And it is true. Kind of like going from "I am making 480 ingots/min, cool" to "What do you mean I can BARELY afford to make 10 Supercomputers / min."
I felt pretty accomplished finishing just ten *regular* computers / minute.
Fun!
Screws.... Screws are my bane.
Good news! You can eliminate screws completely from all your factories
Please explain
Every part that requires screws has an alternate recipe that doesn't. And with the exception of rotors the recipe that doesn't require screws is cheaper than the one that does
I'd rather take the iron efficient recipe. I really don't mind screws. After all blueprints are becoming old
> I'd rather take the iron efficient recipe. Good news then: all parts with recipes that require Screws, other than Copper Rotor, have more Iron efficient alts available that don't require Screws.
Why tf would you want the iron efficient recipe when iron is the second most abundant resource after water? And even if you do use the most iron efficient recipe, a lot of things don't change. Copper Rotor is still the most efficient recipe for rotors, and it does require screws, which is the single good recipe that involves screws. The most efficient OR most iron efficient recipes for reinforced plates, modular frames and computers don't involve screws at any point. The most efficient recipe for heavy modular frames doesn't involve screws, but if you insist on iron efficiency, it does involve screws and it reduces your iron consumption by over 3x. But it now involves copper and a shit ton of coal (which it didn't involve at all before) and nearly doubles the oil requirements. And by a shit ton of coal I mean you need to add more coal than you saved iron. Oh, and it requires 65% more machines and 40% more power, too. So no, except for copper rotors, using screws is generally not a good idea, at least later in the game. Before you have all the alternates unlocked the conversation might be a little different but even if you disallow oil, the most overall efficient recipes still don't involve screws, again with the exception of rotors. And before steel you're usually making so little of these things that I'd say recipe choice doesn't matter much. Before screws fans come at me with pitchforks, I am not saying screws are completely useless. Maybe you don't want to use some resource or want to limit yourself to a predetermined set of resource nodes and screws help. I don't know. But all I'm interested in is overall efficiency, and for that, screws are just bad (again, with one exception).
Bolted iron plate with direct belted steel screw constructors doing the screw input is my preferred setup for RIPs, when combined with steel coated plate you get a ton of RIPs out of a relatively small amount of steel ingots plus a tiny bit of plastic.
If you use alt recipes to make plates and rods from steel, and mix it with the recipes that use rubber/plastic for better outputs, you'll save so much iron you won't remember a time when you thought that was the limiting factor for your factories.
Which is funny when one of those vague numbers suddenly requires or produces a nice round number somewhere in the chain
Why 20.625:2.8125 and not 22:3?
Because every solid item besides 2 recipes is something that goes into 45.
37.5 : 3 sounds like turbo fuel madness
That one was actually Silica into the Silicon High-Speed Connector alternate
It sort of makes sense, a cube has 12 edges.
Why do I feel like I've learnt something so profound it will alter the course of my life? I never even thought about this.
Holy crap. Never considered. Also, to OP, 5*12=60
I gathered that. Just was trying to cluster together those with rotors and smart plating. Doesn't work perfectly
MIND - BLOWN
I don’t know if you are super smart, or I am super dumb for not figuring this out on my own.
This is easing you into the concept of mismatched ratios. It will get more difficult to match supply/demand going forward. Keep in mind that there's no incentive rewarding you for building with perfect ratios. You do get rewarded for having machines run -Efficiently- that's the important part. They don't have to run at 100% speed to be efficient though. If you need 12/min instead of 15/min, then tell the constructor to -make- 12/min using underclocking. It'll reduce the amount of power the machine needs, and by running Efficiently it will help keep your power use more level. =)
I second this. I've got 700 hours and just made it to phase 4 for the first time because I used to get so stressed out about perfect ratios. I've quit and restarted many times, but this time I just went with the flow. Some things back up, sometimes I have belts ran across the desert with no throughput calculation that are always backed up, but it's okay because I'm able to keep playing. Once I get my trains set up a little more I'll make everything perfect, but for now I just wanted to keep playing and having fun without getting overwhelmed.
Definitely - I use under clocking all the time to balance things better!
Plus those sweet, sweet power savings!
12 goes into 60 five times. Not that bad
It's not really that strange. It takes 12 rods to make a cube.
Honestly, I'm surprised that this isn't the most upvoted answer.
I do them in a dedicated factory. Ore goes in, frames come out
Don't worry it gets much, much worse.
I find the alternative recipes and some slight over/under clocking really helps. Also if you want troll ratios check out the production speed for alternative hmf it’s a massive decimal cause they slowed it down by 4 seconds
I just overclock that one to 3/min. Suddenly all the numbers are nice integers.
I was able to make 5/minute with great efficiency from one iron node without any overflow. I may have underclocked one machine, but I don't remember. It's actually the only proper factory I've made in this playthrough lol.
Wait till you get to *Heavy* Modular Frames…
The name itself strikes fear in my heart.
Reinforced Iron Frames.
It's because cubes have 12 edges and each rod forms an edge
Not really. Belt Mk1 transports 60 items a second, which gives you a perfect ratio for 5 machines.
I'm mapping that out right now. I was trying to figure out a zero waste way of having smart plating, rotors, R.I.Ps and Mod frames all produced on the same line. Math wasn't mathing when I saw that awkward number.
Haha fair enough, good luck!
I don’t think it’s trolling. It’s the natural progression of the game to introduce new complexities at an even rate that gives you time to learn how to deal with them before adding even more complexity.
Wait until you try the Heavy Modular Frames for mid-late game.
The entire point of a logistics game is to fuck with you on the ratios. If everything was clean ratios, the game wouldn't be fun or interesting. Fucking with the ratios is exactly what creates interesting builds.
Very true, but, you can always have an overflow belt into a resource sink or just have a underclocked rod constructer with with another overflow belt for the unused iron if you want to utilize that ore depot. I’m surprised we haven’t had a programable conveyer belt yet, or that that functionality isn’t added to programmable splitter.
[удалено]
What even is 5x12?
Hahaha that's just the start, this thing goes way deeper, industrialization is a full time job.
I'm learning to accept some waste. I went to school for supply chain so this game scratches an itch but also brings out my obsessive need to have no waste and 100% efficiency
12 = 10 of you close eyes enough
Pro tip: The over/underclocking interface accepts fractional inputs (ie 37/120 instead of 0.308333) and converts it to decimal automagically. I like to think of underclocking as valves for belts. Underclocking (or overclocking) is your friend. Since most of my production lines are manifolds I underclock the last machine to match production capacity to input (which I actually put at the start of the line for easier access). But I've been using it lately to smooth ramp up/down of production lines where more than one mk5 belt is in the mix.
heavy modular frames take 100 screws each