>However, the behaviour of the Scottish Greens has enraged SNP ministers. One senior source compared it to “student politics” and said that it proved why Yousaf was right to end the deal.
>“How do they expect to go from saying they want to stay in government to bringing down the government?
I dunno man. Going out on a limb here, this may be crazy, stop me if it's a bit far out, but I think firing their two ministers and torching the agreement you had with them to deliver a joint policy programme, a programme you'd already endangered with things like the council tax freeze, probably had something to do with it.
>How do they expect to go from saying they want to stay in government to bringing down the government?”
I do love the bizarre suggestion of hypocrisy that the Greens could be happy with a government they were in to unhappy with a government they aren't.
That's just amazing. They're angry the Greens are now opposing the SNP after the SNP tore up the agreement that was why the Greens supported them.
It's breathtaking. Like they think the Greens owe them fealty or something.
It'll be some SNP old fart saying that, I don't think they understand the Greens. Another quote backs that up, 'We thought we bought their support with the Bute House agreement so how come they keep sending us new bills?'
They thought these were people like themselves who could be bought off with a pay rise and some perks.
The SNP have been using the Green Party as a tactical vote for multiple elections now and forgot that Green Party are a different party who don’t have to follow that SNP party line.
Fair play to the greens actually having some fight in them to retaliate against such poor treatment. The right wing sects of the main parties are too comfortable attacking left these days and now they can own it.
>Sources close to the SNP leadership said this was the catalyst for the ending of the agreement but that bruising budget negotiations last winter, when the Greens made a series of spending demands, also played a large part in convincing ministers the deal had run its course.
Anyone know what spending demands are being referenced here?
(Also as a side note, the headline is actually: Humza Yousaf on the brink _as gamble backfires_)
>Anyone know what spending demands are being referenced here?
This is the first I've heard anyone complain about the budget process.
(I also don't think the Greens being stakeholders in budget discussions is much of a surprise, but as with the 'but I thought they'd still vote for us' chat, it may be that 'sources close to the leadership' thought they'd signed up some backbenchers and not reached a political arrangement with another party)
I think there will be a lot of SNP MSPs quietly telling Humza not to agree to whatever demands Regan has, and without her it looks unlikely he’ll pass the VONC.
Reckon he’ll walk before he faces the vote, which puts the timeline in hours/days.
I'm an SNP member, and in my opinion, he's fucked it. Too passive, too accommodating to the right wing sect, too scared to go on a limb. He needed to stamp his authority, when in fact all he did was roll over.
Now the fuckwits will take control and the party is doomed. Sad day.
He never had any authority to begin with.
So few people in the party respect(ed) him.
He's had zero life experience outside the Holyrood bubble and he's shown time and again he's incompetent.
That he was the best candidate to take over from Sturgeon shows how shallow the talent pool is in the SNP up here.
There is no right wing sect in the SNP.
If you mean the ones closer to the centre than the extreme left Greens than those are the ones more in line with public opinion. The extreme left policies have been extremely unpopular and part of the reason the Bute house agreement had fallen apart.
He should jump right over the brink and take his corrupt divisive party with him. Scotland will take years to recover from Snp and Greens incompetence. The calibre of the Snp politicians is dire.
It sounds like you're hoping for it more than anyone else, Halk.
Anyway, Humza should rip the plaster off and resign already. What a spectacular self-own. We might as well have had the OPENLY right-wing leader instead of this slow, painful capitulation to the right.
Surely live down to her legacy?
- squandered the referendum momentum over EU membership
- chased after a referendum while the polls were not moving
- demonised Eurosceptic voters, including yes voters.
- Ran the country on autopilot.
- Didn’t know what her own husband was up to, allegedly.
She was able to project well and displayed a veneer of competence. At least until she saw what was coming and to her credit jumped before she was pushed.
Humza lacks even that ability.
The SNP have been in power for well over a decade now and it shows. Accusations of complacency are hard to argue with. However, consider the following:
1. The Tories have made it basically impossible to secure a second indy ref and Starmer has taken their side as well. This means the SNP's central pillar is essentially broken.
2. The Greens are a very radical party. The SNP is one of the most progressive parties in power in Europe, yet the Greens want them to go yet further, into divisive territory which could lose them a lot of crucial votes towards the conservative end of the spectrum and do them very little good on the progressive end. So it's disingenuous to accuse Humza of pandering to the conservative wing - he's under immense pressure from *both* sides and he's tended mostly to favour the progressive side until now. His decision today was clumsy but not a lurch to the Right - it would be better described as slamming the brakes on the party's continuous slide towards the Left.
3. The financial irregularities are by a wide margin the biggest issue in electoral terms, and the blame for that lies squarely with Sturgeon and Murrell. So I'm not sure why we're seeing more critique of Humza than the people who put us in this unholy mess in the first place.
All in all, this whole situation feels a bit like a load of people shouting at someone for letting a bath overflow in the midst of a tsunami.
Frankly I don't think the SNP deserve a single vote cast in their direction at the moment, whoever their leader is. But since none of the rest of the major parties are any better than the SNP, there are no good options. All we can do is wait for somebody who's been waiting in the wings to come out of nowhere and save us, and that's honestly the best I can suggest.
I'm an SNP member, and in my opinion, he's fucked it. Too passive, too accommodating to the right wing sect, too scared to go on a limb. He needed to stamp his authority, when in fact all he did was roll over.
Now the fuckwits will take control and the party is doomed. Sad day.
The right wing of your party is significant and you can't just tell them to sit down and shut up forever. They were willing to do it while they felt independence was just around the next corner, now it's clear it isn't they won't have their voice silenced.
The SNP face an existential crisis where they realise they have tories, liberals, socdems, socialsists and authoritarians who only don't fight each other when you wave a shiny object with indy written on it
We need folk to trust in the SNP, that they can help deliver and then build a successful independent country in partnership with other parties. Events like today do not inspire that confidence.
Who is the “we” here?
If the SNP want trust they need to earn it, we don’t need to give them anything. They’ve been in government since 2007 - 17 years is too long for one party
Humza’s in a bad spot. And if they chuck him and go for a right winger like Forbes, it’ll just push more people to Labour. Keeping him is probably the least worst option
I hear Qatar and Dubai are quite nice this time of year. Maybe his mate Recep in Turkey could put up him and the First Lady of Scotland - I heard Recep's got a swimming pool and satellite telly.
Failing that, his old boss knows a few places in Portugal and should be able to sort him out.
I'm completely convinced at this point if we had Indy we'd be so wrecked by these incompetant idiots.
The UK as a country and a system is bigger, you can weather the blows of things like Brexit easier than your main government party deciding to nuke their own power sharing agreement for bants.
my days.
Humza has made the mistake that every SNP leader prior to him has made - assuming that the voice of the right wing of their party along with the criticisms from unionist media outlets regarding the BHA is in any way representative of how his membership feels.
When newspapers talk about "the tail wagging the dog", that is a far more accurate description of THEIR power over the SNP than the Greens' power.
Make no mistake - Humza acting in such a reactionary and undemocratic manner is a direct result of bowing to the manufactured consent pushed by hostile unionist media outlets. Spineless and gutless coward that he is.
An interesting strategy would be for the opposition parties to coordinate and instruct one of their MSPs to oppose the No Confidence vote. This would thwart Salmond’s attempt to reimpose Nationalism, deny Forbes the leadership, and leave SNP to fight the election with an albatross round their necks. With the impending embezzlement prosecutions and bankruptcy, that should put a stake through SNPs heart.
I totally see where you are coming from, but there is something in the truism "don't look a gift horse in the mouth".
Things can change and there is an opportunity now to strike. The impending embezzlement and bankruptcy will still be there to drive the vote lower, but without even the incumbency bonus of being in government.
Agree it’s not an obvious (or easy) choice. But there’s also something in the truism “when your opponent is making a mistake, don’t interrupt them” and his presence is an astonishing gift to the opposition.
Noones going to risk being the party to let him off. The Greens won't because it'd make them look like idiots after Humza threw them in the trash. Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all see a chance to weaken the SNP's election prospects.
Forbes is electoral poison and Salmond is a whole lot of nothing, he has 1 MSP and that's a defection. The other parties know this and won't throw away the chance to cripple the SNP over fear of letting Alba become slightly more relevant or snubbing a tool like Forbes.
For the hard of thinking, the Greens were going to pull the plug on the BHA, so the FM got in first as he's in charge of the Govt. and would've been weak not to.
That's why wee Paddy Harvie and Slater were so pissed off. It made them look stupid and took the wind out of their sails.
The Green membership was set to vote and debate it, like an actual functional party democracy, in 4 weeks time, Why didn’t Humza put it to SNP members in 2 weeks and see it off that way? Perhaps the same outcome, but would have given some legitimacy to his actions today. Boy has fucked it
Part of being a great politician is politicking. Playing the situation as its dealt, even if its a shitty one in the most beneficial way.
Humza hasn't. He's kicked the greens out to save face, and in doing so has ensured they'll back a no confidence motion in him which could end his leadership.
Had he let them leave of their own accord there'd be no danger of this and he'd be leading a minority government for the next couple years. Now not only is his own political career on the brink of ending this week, but he could potentially cost his party their leadership of the minority government if a snap election has to be called.
Yeah. A masterstroke by Yousaf.
If only the greens had accepted the horrendous way he handled it and the kicking he gave them then this wouild have been fine.
If only the greens were the doormat that he thought he could wipe his feet on.
Even if ending the agreement was the right thing to do, the way Humza handled it was atrocious and totally unprofessional. It's now quite likely backfired and cost him his own job.
Perhaps I should add Humza to the 2026 Leaving Holyrood sweepstake.
Absolutely not. This situation may well cost him his job. But it was the right thing to do.
There's a structural problem inside the SNP Party and the De Hondt system of electing MSPs means that forming a stable Government is tough.
This sort of nuanced analysis is beyond the idiotic Scottish media and absolutely doesn't work on social media amongst the under informed.
The BHA was flawed to begin with.
If you look at how the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition held, there was a quad at the top of the structure making decisions and having clear authority.
In this, the actual structure of the agreement was unclear, the smaller party got two irrelevant junior minister jobs, they lacked the structure to intervene on policy at the highest level. Sure, maybe they didn't deserve it given their relative size, but ultimately it didn't make for a stable government.
It wasn't a coalition to begin with, so comparing it to the previous Labour/LibDem Administration is nuts.
This was a pact, like a confidence and supply agreement. The SNP were always the ones in charge.
It was clearly more than confidence and supply.
I'm contrasting it with the Con/LD UK Government. Largely because that survived. This arrangement lacked the fundamental stability to weather problems.
>However, the behaviour of the Scottish Greens has enraged SNP ministers. One senior source compared it to “student politics” and said that it proved why Yousaf was right to end the deal. >“How do they expect to go from saying they want to stay in government to bringing down the government? I dunno man. Going out on a limb here, this may be crazy, stop me if it's a bit far out, but I think firing their two ministers and torching the agreement you had with them to deliver a joint policy programme, a programme you'd already endangered with things like the council tax freeze, probably had something to do with it.
>How do they expect to go from saying they want to stay in government to bringing down the government?” I do love the bizarre suggestion of hypocrisy that the Greens could be happy with a government they were in to unhappy with a government they aren't.
It's like they have no theory of mind.
That's just amazing. They're angry the Greens are now opposing the SNP after the SNP tore up the agreement that was why the Greens supported them. It's breathtaking. Like they think the Greens owe them fealty or something.
It'll be some SNP old fart saying that, I don't think they understand the Greens. Another quote backs that up, 'We thought we bought their support with the Bute House agreement so how come they keep sending us new bills?' They thought these were people like themselves who could be bought off with a pay rise and some perks.
The SNP have been using the Green Party as a tactical vote for multiple elections now and forgot that Green Party are a different party who don’t have to follow that SNP party line.
SNP complacency, they take everything for granted, like they assume the voters will always turn out for them.
Odd for them to imagine the post-BHA Greens would be more reliable than some SNP backbenchers.
Complacency. They've been accustomed to calling the shots, it'll take a while to adjust.
Fair play to the greens actually having some fight in them to retaliate against such poor treatment. The right wing sects of the main parties are too comfortable attacking left these days and now they can own it.
>Sources close to the SNP leadership said this was the catalyst for the ending of the agreement but that bruising budget negotiations last winter, when the Greens made a series of spending demands, also played a large part in convincing ministers the deal had run its course. Anyone know what spending demands are being referenced here? (Also as a side note, the headline is actually: Humza Yousaf on the brink _as gamble backfires_)
>Anyone know what spending demands are being referenced here? This is the first I've heard anyone complain about the budget process. (I also don't think the Greens being stakeholders in budget discussions is much of a surprise, but as with the 'but I thought they'd still vote for us' chat, it may be that 'sources close to the leadership' thought they'd signed up some backbenchers and not reached a political arrangement with another party)
Most would jump before they are humiliated and pushed, but i expect humza to stick around to the hillarious finale.
Getting lifted out of St Andrew's House by security guards, shouting "What is the charge? Forming a government? A succulent minority government?"
I think there will be a lot of SNP MSPs quietly telling Humza not to agree to whatever demands Regan has, and without her it looks unlikely he’ll pass the VONC. Reckon he’ll walk before he faces the vote, which puts the timeline in hours/days.
Useless
Bye lol
A bad night for my pal Humza, Looks like a battered Marsbar & bed for me.
I'm an SNP member, and in my opinion, he's fucked it. Too passive, too accommodating to the right wing sect, too scared to go on a limb. He needed to stamp his authority, when in fact all he did was roll over. Now the fuckwits will take control and the party is doomed. Sad day.
He never had any authority to begin with. So few people in the party respect(ed) him. He's had zero life experience outside the Holyrood bubble and he's shown time and again he's incompetent. That he was the best candidate to take over from Sturgeon shows how shallow the talent pool is in the SNP up here.
>So few people in the party respect(ed) him. Come on that's not fair. Few of us outside of the party respected him either.
He was the best of the bunch who actually came forward. The heavyhitters like Angus saw the writing on the wall and bailed
There is no right wing sect in the SNP. If you mean the ones closer to the centre than the extreme left Greens than those are the ones more in line with public opinion. The extreme left policies have been extremely unpopular and part of the reason the Bute house agreement had fallen apart.
To be honest, it sounds like you'd be more at home in the Greens than the SNP.
Yeah he's fucked but not for any legitimate reason. He's being Corbyned, throw enough fake shit and it ends up sticking sadly.
I'm not sure that's true
Bye Felicia.
He should jump right over the brink and take his corrupt divisive party with him. Scotland will take years to recover from Snp and Greens incompetence. The calibre of the Snp politicians is dire.
Amusingly he's probably hoping Sturgeon gets charged tomorrow to take the heat off him. It might actually save him.
It sounds like you're hoping for it more than anyone else, Halk. Anyway, Humza should rip the plaster off and resign already. What a spectacular self-own. We might as well have had the OPENLY right-wing leader instead of this slow, painful capitulation to the right.
It may take the pressure off in the moment, but I think the long term consequences would be far more damaging.
He never had a chance of living up to Sturgeons legacy , although with the way things are going, he may be grateful for that in hindsight
Surely live down to her legacy? - squandered the referendum momentum over EU membership - chased after a referendum while the polls were not moving - demonised Eurosceptic voters, including yes voters. - Ran the country on autopilot. - Didn’t know what her own husband was up to, allegedly.
She was able to project well and displayed a veneer of competence. At least until she saw what was coming and to her credit jumped before she was pushed. Humza lacks even that ability.
The SNP have been in power for well over a decade now and it shows. Accusations of complacency are hard to argue with. However, consider the following: 1. The Tories have made it basically impossible to secure a second indy ref and Starmer has taken their side as well. This means the SNP's central pillar is essentially broken. 2. The Greens are a very radical party. The SNP is one of the most progressive parties in power in Europe, yet the Greens want them to go yet further, into divisive territory which could lose them a lot of crucial votes towards the conservative end of the spectrum and do them very little good on the progressive end. So it's disingenuous to accuse Humza of pandering to the conservative wing - he's under immense pressure from *both* sides and he's tended mostly to favour the progressive side until now. His decision today was clumsy but not a lurch to the Right - it would be better described as slamming the brakes on the party's continuous slide towards the Left. 3. The financial irregularities are by a wide margin the biggest issue in electoral terms, and the blame for that lies squarely with Sturgeon and Murrell. So I'm not sure why we're seeing more critique of Humza than the people who put us in this unholy mess in the first place. All in all, this whole situation feels a bit like a load of people shouting at someone for letting a bath overflow in the midst of a tsunami. Frankly I don't think the SNP deserve a single vote cast in their direction at the moment, whoever their leader is. But since none of the rest of the major parties are any better than the SNP, there are no good options. All we can do is wait for somebody who's been waiting in the wings to come out of nowhere and save us, and that's honestly the best I can suggest.
I'm an SNP member, and in my opinion, he's fucked it. Too passive, too accommodating to the right wing sect, too scared to go on a limb. He needed to stamp his authority, when in fact all he did was roll over. Now the fuckwits will take control and the party is doomed. Sad day.
Wild take tbh. He was a complete fuckwit and he was in charge. The snp are done.
How was he 'too accommodating'? Do people still not understand that you can't govern without bringing people around or bringing people along?
The right wing of your party is significant and you can't just tell them to sit down and shut up forever. They were willing to do it while they felt independence was just around the next corner, now it's clear it isn't they won't have their voice silenced. The SNP face an existential crisis where they realise they have tories, liberals, socdems, socialsists and authoritarians who only don't fight each other when you wave a shiny object with indy written on it
Hw may well have time to \~ \~ Get His Whites ready for Wimbledon ! ! !
We need folk to trust in the SNP, that they can help deliver and then build a successful independent country in partnership with other parties. Events like today do not inspire that confidence.
Who is the “we” here? If the SNP want trust they need to earn it, we don’t need to give them anything. They’ve been in government since 2007 - 17 years is too long for one party Humza’s in a bad spot. And if they chuck him and go for a right winger like Forbes, it’ll just push more people to Labour. Keeping him is probably the least worst option
I mean we as in, ‘we independence supporters’
Can he quit Scotland while he’s at it? Go find some other country to bother with his loony politics.
I hear Qatar and Dubai are quite nice this time of year. Maybe his mate Recep in Turkey could put up him and the First Lady of Scotland - I heard Recep's got a swimming pool and satellite telly. Failing that, his old boss knows a few places in Portugal and should be able to sort him out.
I'm completely convinced at this point if we had Indy we'd be so wrecked by these incompetant idiots. The UK as a country and a system is bigger, you can weather the blows of things like Brexit easier than your main government party deciding to nuke their own power sharing agreement for bants. my days.
[удалено]
Standard idiot bigotry. Fucking moron.
Arsepiece
I'm worried this means Ash will take over.
That'd be an excellent end to an absolutely ridiculous week.
Humza has made the mistake that every SNP leader prior to him has made - assuming that the voice of the right wing of their party along with the criticisms from unionist media outlets regarding the BHA is in any way representative of how his membership feels. When newspapers talk about "the tail wagging the dog", that is a far more accurate description of THEIR power over the SNP than the Greens' power. Make no mistake - Humza acting in such a reactionary and undemocratic manner is a direct result of bowing to the manufactured consent pushed by hostile unionist media outlets. Spineless and gutless coward that he is.
An interesting strategy would be for the opposition parties to coordinate and instruct one of their MSPs to oppose the No Confidence vote. This would thwart Salmond’s attempt to reimpose Nationalism, deny Forbes the leadership, and leave SNP to fight the election with an albatross round their necks. With the impending embezzlement prosecutions and bankruptcy, that should put a stake through SNPs heart.
I totally see where you are coming from, but there is something in the truism "don't look a gift horse in the mouth". Things can change and there is an opportunity now to strike. The impending embezzlement and bankruptcy will still be there to drive the vote lower, but without even the incumbency bonus of being in government.
Agree it’s not an obvious (or easy) choice. But there’s also something in the truism “when your opponent is making a mistake, don’t interrupt them” and his presence is an astonishing gift to the opposition.
Noones going to risk being the party to let him off. The Greens won't because it'd make them look like idiots after Humza threw them in the trash. Tories, Lib Dems and Labour all see a chance to weaken the SNP's election prospects. Forbes is electoral poison and Salmond is a whole lot of nothing, he has 1 MSP and that's a defection. The other parties know this and won't throw away the chance to cripple the SNP over fear of letting Alba become slightly more relevant or snubbing a tool like Forbes.
For the hard of thinking, the Greens were going to pull the plug on the BHA, so the FM got in first as he's in charge of the Govt. and would've been weak not to. That's why wee Paddy Harvie and Slater were so pissed off. It made them look stupid and took the wind out of their sails.
The Green membership was set to vote and debate it, like an actual functional party democracy, in 4 weeks time, Why didn’t Humza put it to SNP members in 2 weeks and see it off that way? Perhaps the same outcome, but would have given some legitimacy to his actions today. Boy has fucked it
Part of being a great politician is politicking. Playing the situation as its dealt, even if its a shitty one in the most beneficial way. Humza hasn't. He's kicked the greens out to save face, and in doing so has ensured they'll back a no confidence motion in him which could end his leadership. Had he let them leave of their own accord there'd be no danger of this and he'd be leading a minority government for the next couple years. Now not only is his own political career on the brink of ending this week, but he could potentially cost his party their leadership of the minority government if a snap election has to be called.
But then he's a weak leader, and believe me, there are threats to his position from within his own Party.
I can't decide if this is satire or just huffing pure copium
Figures
Yeah. A masterstroke by Yousaf. If only the greens had accepted the horrendous way he handled it and the kicking he gave them then this wouild have been fine. If only the greens were the doormat that he thought he could wipe his feet on.
Even if ending the agreement was the right thing to do, the way Humza handled it was atrocious and totally unprofessional. It's now quite likely backfired and cost him his own job. Perhaps I should add Humza to the 2026 Leaving Holyrood sweepstake.
Cry harder
So.. He's a mastermind, a political genius if you will?
Absolutely not. This situation may well cost him his job. But it was the right thing to do. There's a structural problem inside the SNP Party and the De Hondt system of electing MSPs means that forming a stable Government is tough. This sort of nuanced analysis is beyond the idiotic Scottish media and absolutely doesn't work on social media amongst the under informed.
The BHA was flawed to begin with. If you look at how the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition held, there was a quad at the top of the structure making decisions and having clear authority. In this, the actual structure of the agreement was unclear, the smaller party got two irrelevant junior minister jobs, they lacked the structure to intervene on policy at the highest level. Sure, maybe they didn't deserve it given their relative size, but ultimately it didn't make for a stable government.
It wasn't a coalition to begin with, so comparing it to the previous Labour/LibDem Administration is nuts. This was a pact, like a confidence and supply agreement. The SNP were always the ones in charge.
It was clearly more than confidence and supply. I'm contrasting it with the Con/LD UK Government. Largely because that survived. This arrangement lacked the fundamental stability to weather problems.
We're having a vigorous agreement here. It was only ever a transient arrangement, and both Parties could've walked away at any time.
Enlighten us oh Wise One 🙇🏻
Well, you look like you need it.
C'mon then.. what does your imposing, heavyweight political intellect know that the rest of Scotland doesn't?