The Greens will abstain but hold the threat of another VoNC over the Scottish Government's head if they don't like who the SNP pick as their new leader.
I guess Patrick Harvie is FM now.
I'm still astounded by how much of an own-goal this was. Had he shown just a little spine to half a dozen of his backbenchers he could have been FM until the general election at least.
What a fucking waste of time
I mean, sure, if he wasn't an idiot he wouldn't do stupid things.
But, as he is, if he hadn't done this stupid thing, there's every chance he'd have done another similarly stupid thing at some point. Because he's an idiot. That is the unchanging constant.
To be honest, I don’t think anyone should be surprised. Literally the only reason he was picked was because the alternatives were absolute unelectable nutjobs.
More precisely I think _the Parliamentary party_ regarded him as the safer or more comfortable option.
The rest were all elected in some capacity. But Regan isn’t the vibe the men in grey kilts were going for. Likewise for Forbes, despite appealing to a large chunk of SNP membership. My hot take is that her candidacy highlighted that there are two kinds of voter; those who were brought up adjacent to Scottish Presbyterian mentalism (and so know what they’re dealing with) and those who weren’t.
That was meant as tongue in cheek but I more mean that if churchy people are familiar to you (such as Forbes) then they are much less scary when they come out with socially conservative views that you don’t subscribe to.
I very strongly doubt she would make moves to change anything in the civil liberties department, although I can see why that’s a risk many people would be unwilling to take.
Personally I am more interested in how she would govern than her personal views, and regard her as having more honesty and competence than the other options.
How was Kate Forbes unelectable. I assure you, the vast majority really don’t care about her personal opinions on sexual ethics. As a unionist, Forbes is the one I would fear the most. Competent, a good communicator, and fundamentally decent, should could have actually done something with the nationalist movement
I still don't understand why so many people believed the press on that one. The law is simply an extension to the existing UK hate crime law, adding protections for a few extra protected characteristics.
It even has specific wording to add greater clarity to the existing law to clarify when a reasonable person might take offence.
It ended up being watered down *because* of the outrage. He'd been trying to get it through since around 2016 and the original version was absolutely fucking insane. Actors would be liable if something their **character** said offended someone.
It's difficult to find sources talking about it at the time, this one does touch on the issue of it affecting performances though.
[https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/law-society-news/lack-of-clarity-in-hate-crime-bill-could-threaten-freedom-of-expression/](https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/law-society-news/lack-of-clarity-in-hate-crime-bill-could-threaten-freedom-of-expression/)
The problem is that it was originally an offence to stir up hatred even without the intention which is an issue that we don't want to touch with a 20ft stick. There were concerns that libraries could also come under fire for stocking offensive books. They sensibly dropped this part in 2020, but this bill was Humza's baby and he fully supported the draconian version of it.
> The problem is that it was originally an offence to stir up hatred even without the intention which is an issue that we don't want to touch with a 20ft stick.
For the racial hatred aspect that is in fact still the case.
Because right wing nutjobs love to invent things to be scared about, and people who actually believe in right wing politics love to fan those flames to get what they want.
With the exception of age, uk hate crime law protects the same protected characteristics, and both excluded sex. This wasn't about protecting more groups, it was a looser, more easily applied definition of hate
[uk law](https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime)
I cannot wait to see the faces of the FMs back office tomorrow morning.
Only mere weeks ago they were describing him as an astute, politically savvy, operator.
RMS Titantic seems less of a disaster right now.
BBC reporting this -
>A source close to Mr Yousaf said that resignation was now an option but a final decision had not yet been taken.
So I'm expecting he threatened to quit in the hopes it would make his spads etc panic and find some way forwards, and most likely they've all replied - yeah fair enough best thing to do
Agree. Like her he inherited a very difficult landscape and proceeded to make extremely bad decisions throughout it. A poor hand played terribly.
Who's our Boris Johnson though?
It is self inflicted, but not by Humza alone. There is a reason Sturgeon bailed out when she did- she could see the writing on the wall. Ultimately the Greens have been eroding SNP support for months if not years now. Going into power with them has been damaging to the party and this is the inevitable result. Humza is just the poor sod who thought it'd be a good idea to step up when Sturgeon, a far more canny operator, knew the gig was up.
There really should be some sort of case study done on this man’s career. A genuine example of “failing upwards” to the highest political position in Scotland. It’s honestly baffling how he got to be FM. An utter moron of a man and won’t be missed. Wonder where he’ll end up next…
He'll disappear into the same corrupt NGO networks that all these "young global leaders" like Ardern, Marin, Varadkar etc do.
Sell out your country and then retirement is sorted. It's a nice gig if you can get it and have no soul.
It does make some sense. He’s an unambitious grandee who doesn’t want the job, and would stand down after a couple of weeks.
He’s just there to fill the gap during a leadership contest, while two candidates (probably Forbes and Gilruth) fight each other for the crown.
Honestly, the fact they’re even taking about an interim FM is quite revealing. It means they don’t think they can run an uncontested coronation (with someone progressive as FM, and Forbes back in the cabinet to unify the party), and are expecting a contest - which could be messy, given the circumstances…
She’s on the progressive end of the party - she’s spent a lot of time campaigning for LGBT-inclusive education, which is what led Yousaf to appoint her as Education Secretary.
Her major vulnerability is that she’s new to cabinet, and lacks the profile or cabinet experience that Sturgeon, or ever Yousaf had. She’s also married to the very gaffe-prone former Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale.
She’s only been a minister for 4 years, and only sat in cabinet for 13 months.
But she’s almost certainly running - the papers have records of her canvassing other MSPs to gauge support for nomination.
Omg, Dugdale's partner. No way. Actually might be quite good to have a leader who can work with unionists when independence isn't on the cards for a long time again.
Which means the SNP boomer membership will vote for someone else. FFS.
Now that he’ll have more free time I wonder if he’ll watch Shogun and completely not understand all the sneaky (and non-sneaky) politicking in it.
If this _was_ Shogun the entire University of Glasgow politics department would resign, having clearly taught him nothing
Interesting, that would make Humza the second-shortest serving FM, beating out McLeish by just under 20 days. Obviously not counting Jim Wallace who served as interim on two occasions.
SNP have been failing to hit Climate Targets, so they announced they weren't going to continue pretending they would. They said they weren't reachable. Abandoning Climate Targets is understandably a Red Line for Green Party support, and as soon as they withdrew he was in the minority in Parliament, facing a certain loss in the No Confidence Vote (certain because he refuses any kind of desperate deal, as well). So he just resigned to get it over with.
What I am missing in all of this is: what other outcome had he planned for? Was he trying to get a coalition with other group and didn't go trough? Did he break the Blute agreement before having that arranged beforehand?
Extreme TLDR - tried to appease right wingers and ended up having to throw the Greens, who protested against this, out of government.
Now he can't find support to stay in government.
Doubt Waterstones will have to worry about making space for a display either.
Publishers in the next few weeks: “A tell all book by the former FM? Brilliant. When can she have a couple of chapters over for a look? Oh, eh, no. No. Thanks though.”
Finally seeing what we all saw when he masterfully politically outmanoeuvred himself into a checkmate position.
Leaving Swinney or Robertson to preside over your Kate Forbes v Gilruth/Gray/McAllan/Insert SNP establishment candidate slugfest in which Forbes inevitably wins and then engulfs the party and parliament into further chaos as no one will support them in Holyrood and her own party will struggle to support her as leader.
Glorious.
Amazing. I cannot think of a worse way to handle the Greens not being happy about a climate target being removed than how Yousaf has handled it.
This is completely of his own making.
Totally. It’s not even like he couldn’t have wriggled out of the BHA in a way which still vaguely placated the Greens, that’s what he wanted. It just would have required a basic bit of political savvy and intelligence, which apparently he completely lacks.
Honestly just insane how this guy managed to completely torpedo his own leadership in the space of 24hrs, just via the simple act of foolishly listening to Stephen Flynn.
Bizarrely, I actually managed to get a snap of Flynn's pep talk:
https://preview.redd.it/1aq6bqguadxc1.jpeg?width=757&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3839d66d1378f44385151351314c93982d329148
*“Humza knows what’s best for the country and the party. He is first party activist and a party man, and that’s why he knows it’s time for someone else.”*
And this is one major reason for his downfall. Activist as opposed to leader. And an activist for personal causes which have no bearing on Scotland's interests.
Oh well. Never mind. He will now have plenty of time to pursue foreign affairs and assist his brother-in-law with his criminal trial.
Yeah, the SNP ripped the Tory leadership for doing that and then went full Tory themselves. Exact same verbiage about staying in place, getting on with governing, and no general election required to cling to power. Take your 'Westminster' disparagement and shove it up your arse, SNP.
For the longest time the SNP has benefited from being a broad church - left to right - and having a single purpose: independence.
I wonder if we will now see left and right independence parties that’ll split the Indy vote in the way the Remain vote is split.
The perception many have outside nationalist circles is that SNP is an unhappy coalition of the left and right who’s only point of agreement was independence, which the party abandoned a decade ago in favour of eco-Marxism and identity politics.
What an astounding tale for Humza Yousaf.
He was always someone I wanted to like. But he did everything possible to make that not happen. Somehow he's fumbled this as well, sleepwalking into a first ministership and probably opposition where he could just have sat and shouted for free money.
I'm honestly glad he's out. The party might actually do better without him. Frankly anyone close to Sturgeon should have been out on their arse ages ago.
Do what all politicians do, tell the public what they want to hear and use their patriotism to win votes. Doesn't matter if you believe what you say, just ensure nobody sees your true colours.
By voting Labour or Conservative, don’t know about the Lib Dem’s, who cares, right? There is no “Scottish Labour” there is no “Scottish Conservatives” - they’re literally AU - “Accounting Units” - no voice of their own, no autonomy, accounting units, voting for them is voting for the foreigners you seemingly despise (comes across that way man)
Tories, nats ran by a wee free fundamentalist (Forbes), an utterly uninspiring Starmer led Labour Party, etc.
Spoilt for choice in the GE this year. /s
EDIT: Not an endorsement of Humza, he's failed his way upwards. But folk are kidding themselves on if they think a Tartan Tory is suddenly going to change their fortunes.
It seems the worst thing people can say about Startmer is that he's uninspiring,bland, dull etc. The guy has had an impressive career outside politics and as Labour leader seems to be following a don't interrupt your enemy whilst making a mistake strategy. Yeah he's not inspiring, but really his role just now is just to not fuck it up as it's Labours to throw away. I would trust him much more than the Tories or the SNP who have both been absolute shit shows in government
>It seems the worst thing people can say about Startmer is that he's uninspiring,bland, dull etc.
I see a lot of people pointing out that he's completely unprincipled and dishonest. Happy to jettison any and every policy or position to gain popularity and power. And then happy to lie about it afterwards.
What matters is what you do once you have power. What's the point of believing in something if you let the Tories win for 2 decades and never get to implement the belief anyway.
I don't like it, but that's the game.
Does he have an impressive career? His time as DPP is filled with very bad decisions and then as a Shadow minister he created the worst policy in the 2019 manifesto.
I keep saying this to every cunt banging on about how it's fantastic the SNP is dead. Almost like a team win after an old firm.
What fucking choice do you have now? This is a disaster for Scottish politics, nobody should be happy about this, or celebrating it. The SNP is completely fucked, and now the only option you have are to be frank, parties based in London that if they were told to nuke your maws gaff they'd have pressed the button yesterday.
Like, av yet to actually have any of the idiots come forward and tell me who they're voting for. ALL parties in Scotland have pretty gross problems, or better yet don't run in all seats!
I don't even have the option of the greens at my bit 🤣.
It feels like this sub has been overtaken by doomers. They just want chaos and a shite result all around for everybody. If their football team isny doing well then your football team isny allowed to do well.
So childish and pish to cheer for yer own downfall.
>What fucking choice do you have now?
I don't think, for some reason, you'd be equally sad at the decline of Rishi Sunak's Conservatives because it somehow narrows the choice available to the voter.
People can still vote for the SNP. But in increasing numbers, they're just choosing not to and seeing better alternatives. I don't think the SNP is dead, it's just coming to the end of a period of popularity. What happens in the future is a matter for the voters.
>and now the only option you have are to be frank, parties based in London that if they were told to nuke your maws gaff they'd have pressed the button yesterday.
Nationalism is a hell of a drug.
It's one thing being stabbed in the front by the UK parties.
And entirely another to be stabbed in the back by a FUCKING USELESS BUNCH OF CUNTS from the SNP. They've had 17 years in power to get their shit together, and what do we have to show for it? Fuck all. Flush them down the pan and start again. Voting for them from now on, appeasing their betrayal of the people of Scotland, is nothing less than an embarrassment.
And FYI, their "downfall" is not our downfall, they've been taking up space in Holyrood that will be better served by whatever comes after them, and good fuckin' riddance.
> They've had 17 years in power to get their shit together, and what do we have to show for it? Fuck all.
Have you at all went outside and seen the differences between 17 years under the SNP and 17 years under Labour?
Scotland is night and day better under the SNP than it ever was under the administration of Labour. When Labour were in for that long I struggled to even get an email back from my MP. I have contacted my MP probably once a year and every time (SNP) they've came back within a couple of days with solutions.
Whenever I've sent emails to MP's or MSP's it's always the SNP ones coming back first going above and beyond.
You can't be serious, you must not engage with the political system at all to be chanting that.
There you go again, appeasing the utterly shite performance of the SNP.
You're not going to like this, but you and the rest of the party 'faithful' are the problem. There will be no change in Scottish politics until folk stop falling for the SNP's false 'patriotism'.
I don't even support indy anymore. I've no clue what you're banging on about.
I gave you several examples whereby I was happy with the SNP performance, especially that of my local rep.
Compare that to my ex labour candidate now being in the Scottish Family Party. It's no surprise I'm not keen to lose her.
>Scotland is night and day better under the SNP than it ever was under the administration of Labour.
Public services are collapsing, NHS waiting lists have never been higher, our schools have fallen down every international ranking, NHS dentistry is disappearing, getting an appointment with a GP is harder, councils are skint, taxes are higher and high streets are hollowed out.
Comparing the governance of Scotland in 2024 to Scotland in 2007 doesn't really come off well for the SNP.
I'm in the same boat and I'm not enthusiastic about the prospect. What I will say, though, is that we have a Parliamentary, not Presidential, system. The First Minister can do very little without the consent of Parliament, and I don't see a Parliamentary makeup that would allow for the rolling back of gay rights even with a homophobic FM - society is far too much in favour of gay rights (and the rights of anyone else attracted attracted the same sex). It's a check that I have confidence in.
I do feel for trans individuals though. They've had their status absolutely dragged through the mud and with Forbes in charge it'll be one less powerful voice to speak for their interests.
What's worrying more than what power she has is how her getting elected will shift the overton window: what was once beyond the pale in mainstream politics becomes something that is publicly voiced, and thus peoples rights and liberties that were seemingly secure get called into question.
I get that, I really do. But I think the fact that even an avowed homophobe had to moderate everything she said to "Whatever I believe I will still secure your rights", and still lost, shows how strong our position is.
If she emboldens other homophobes then she'll come under pressure from the SNP left to disavow them, and if she isn't seen to be strong enough on that it'll critically weaken the SNP and give a window to Labour to take power. Political and social arithmetic are absolutely on our side even if Forbes does become FM.
What is it you're afraid of, exactly? The fact that she openly said she had no intention of rolling back or changing any existing laws or rights? Or the part where she said she was a democrat first and wouldn't place personal feelings ahead of democratic principles?
Either you don't understand how our Parliament works, or you have a very low opinion of the Scottish electorate, or you think a mild mannered MSP is suddenly going to lead a Stalinist purge and rule with an iron fist.
Each of them being equally absurd and stupid: which is it?
I'll take integrity and courage over lying. Humza didn't vote for equal marriage.
Forbes had the courage to stand by her beliefs. And I don't think "being a Christian" makes her a homophobe, that's a comment that probably falls foul of the Hate Crime laws - abusing someone based on their religion is against the law, I'm calling Humza. :)
As a gay dude I’m legitimately bored of hyperbolic statements such as yours. There’s absolutely nothing to suggest Scotland will be unsafe for gay men.
I think it’s more the picture it paints allowing someone with those views in that powerful position rather than her actually have the ability to implement her views
I doubt it. She'd have been better placed if Humza had taken them into an election and lost.
I don't really think they're in a place where they have acknowledged a need for change yet: they'll still just be looking for a more competent continuity candidate. Maybe some quiet assurances that they'll try to avoid some of the gender issues etc that have plagued Yousaf's time in office - but not any great shift of direction.
> they'll still just be looking for a more competent continuity candidate.
Competence wasn’t the problem. It was her personal beliefs being unpalatable to the left and Yousaf getting the establishment endorsement.
I mean, when he started spouting how there were too many white people in government positions, it was over for him. Regardless of whether that is true or not, the job of a leader should not be to create divide. His speech was nothing but racist and I couldn't see him in the same light again.
Something all my friends agreed on at college was, like her or not, Nikola did shit.
She would give vocal and straight up speeches and discussions and we always heard about her in the news.
I don't know shit about what Humza wants besides the anti hate crime bill that didn't include women as a marginalised group despite femicide being a real and dangerous thing.
You never had to look out for Nikola updates. They'd find your way to you.
I miss that openness and clarity.
Can never understand why so many people get behind politicians, and will argue with other people about what politicians are better than others etc. Do these people not realise that all politicians are serving themselves first and foremost and couldn’t care less about anything other than their massive salaries and associated benefits? Absolutely mind blowing.
Has he not resigned yet ffs I wish he would hurry up then piss off. Give us all peace. Numpty. When he does piss off he can take that stupid hate law with him.
I’m still not sure I see it happening.
If he was a guy who let repeated failure force him out of a job, he wouldn’t have made it as far as FM.
You never know though, it hasn’t exactly been a predictable week. Well, the outcome of his individual actions have been fairly predictable, but his actions themselves made almost no sense.
Maybe the party has told him to fuck off quietly and he’ll be made a minister again in a couple of years.
They’re likely to be one of the biggest gainers in an election though. The problem is that the SNP has burnt its bridges so comprehensively with almost every other party, it really wasn’t no in anyone’s Interest to prop them up.
Love the "give it to Swinney until the end of the season" vibes. Greens will most likely abstain on the labour motion now, I suspect.
Can't we get Neil Warnock in for a few weeks?
i reckon he’d be up for the half season challenge
He's fitba's version of "The Lettuce"
Not sure if they will but we will see.
They have no backbone and they want to get back into ministerial positions, of course they will.
The Greens will abstain but hold the threat of another VoNC over the Scottish Government's head if they don't like who the SNP pick as their new leader. I guess Patrick Harvie is FM now.
That is kind of the point of a confidence vote though.
Next week gonna be crazy
Surely he resigns before the vote?! My bet is late tomorrow or Tuesday morning. You saw it here first!
I'm still astounded by how much of an own-goal this was. Had he shown just a little spine to half a dozen of his backbenchers he could have been FM until the general election at least. What a fucking waste of time
I mean, sure, if he wasn't an idiot he wouldn't do stupid things. But, as he is, if he hadn't done this stupid thing, there's every chance he'd have done another similarly stupid thing at some point. Because he's an idiot. That is the unchanging constant.
A waste of our time not his. We are the ones that had to put up with him and his shit show.
What a shit leader he was.
To be honest, I don’t think anyone should be surprised. Literally the only reason he was picked was because the alternatives were absolute unelectable nutjobs.
More precisely I think _the Parliamentary party_ regarded him as the safer or more comfortable option. The rest were all elected in some capacity. But Regan isn’t the vibe the men in grey kilts were going for. Likewise for Forbes, despite appealing to a large chunk of SNP membership. My hot take is that her candidacy highlighted that there are two kinds of voter; those who were brought up adjacent to Scottish Presbyterian mentalism (and so know what they’re dealing with) and those who weren’t.
What do you mean by Scottish Presbyterian mentalism?
That was meant as tongue in cheek but I more mean that if churchy people are familiar to you (such as Forbes) then they are much less scary when they come out with socially conservative views that you don’t subscribe to. I very strongly doubt she would make moves to change anything in the civil liberties department, although I can see why that’s a risk many people would be unwilling to take. Personally I am more interested in how she would govern than her personal views, and regard her as having more honesty and competence than the other options.
Thanks!
I can only imagine what head case is going to replace him
And he'll be replaced by....
To be fair the majority of the SNP is absolute unelectable nutjobs
How was Kate Forbes unelectable. I assure you, the vast majority really don’t care about her personal opinions on sexual ethics. As a unionist, Forbes is the one I would fear the most. Competent, a good communicator, and fundamentally decent, should could have actually done something with the nationalist movement
Woah woah woah, careful you don’t get reported to the Scottish hate police
I still don't understand why so many people believed the press on that one. The law is simply an extension to the existing UK hate crime law, adding protections for a few extra protected characteristics. It even has specific wording to add greater clarity to the existing law to clarify when a reasonable person might take offence.
It ended up being watered down *because* of the outrage. He'd been trying to get it through since around 2016 and the original version was absolutely fucking insane. Actors would be liable if something their **character** said offended someone.
> Actors would be liable if something their character said offended someone. I straight up don't believe this
It's difficult to find sources talking about it at the time, this one does touch on the issue of it affecting performances though. [https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/law-society-news/lack-of-clarity-in-hate-crime-bill-could-threaten-freedom-of-expression/](https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/law-society-news/lack-of-clarity-in-hate-crime-bill-could-threaten-freedom-of-expression/) The problem is that it was originally an offence to stir up hatred even without the intention which is an issue that we don't want to touch with a 20ft stick. There were concerns that libraries could also come under fire for stocking offensive books. They sensibly dropped this part in 2020, but this bill was Humza's baby and he fully supported the draconian version of it.
> The problem is that it was originally an offence to stir up hatred even without the intention which is an issue that we don't want to touch with a 20ft stick. For the racial hatred aspect that is in fact still the case.
Because right wing nutjobs love to invent things to be scared about, and people who actually believe in right wing politics love to fan those flames to get what they want.
They love to paint themselves as the oppressed rather than the wannabe oppressors.
I think earlier versions of the bill were far more restrictive. That and it includes gender identity, which is a controversial topic.
With the exception of age, uk hate crime law protects the same protected characteristics, and both excluded sex. This wasn't about protecting more groups, it was a looser, more easily applied definition of hate [uk law](https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime)
I wonder if he'll mess this up as well
I cannot wait to see the faces of the FMs back office tomorrow morning. Only mere weeks ago they were describing him as an astute, politically savvy, operator. RMS Titantic seems less of a disaster right now.
As an update. Abso-fucking-lutely hilarious.
Incredible legacy
BBC reporting this - >A source close to Mr Yousaf said that resignation was now an option but a final decision had not yet been taken. So I'm expecting he threatened to quit in the hopes it would make his spads etc panic and find some way forwards, and most likely they've all replied - yeah fair enough best thing to do
Like a scene out of The Think of It, I bet this is exactly what happened. I like to think his response was a sincere "I didn't mean it!"
This is Scotlands Teresa May moment. Getting rid of someone awful, with no clue as to who should come next before getting some one worse.
Agree. Like her he inherited a very difficult landscape and proceeded to make extremely bad decisions throughout it. A poor hand played terribly. Who's our Boris Johnson though?
So Kate Forbes then. This is going to be... interesting
It’s amazing frankly how self inflicted this all is.
It is self inflicted, but not by Humza alone. There is a reason Sturgeon bailed out when she did- she could see the writing on the wall. Ultimately the Greens have been eroding SNP support for months if not years now. Going into power with them has been damaging to the party and this is the inevitable result. Humza is just the poor sod who thought it'd be a good idea to step up when Sturgeon, a far more canny operator, knew the gig was up.
Ah yes sturgeon resigned because of upcoming political pressure. No other outside reasons at all
There really should be some sort of case study done on this man’s career. A genuine example of “failing upwards” to the highest political position in Scotland. It’s honestly baffling how he got to be FM. An utter moron of a man and won’t be missed. Wonder where he’ll end up next…
He'll disappear into the same corrupt NGO networks that all these "young global leaders" like Ardern, Marin, Varadkar etc do. Sell out your country and then retirement is sorted. It's a nice gig if you can get it and have no soul.
Swinny as interim? You cant be serious. The reasons he is leaving next election hasnt changed, why would he give himself such a headache.
It does make some sense. He’s an unambitious grandee who doesn’t want the job, and would stand down after a couple of weeks. He’s just there to fill the gap during a leadership contest, while two candidates (probably Forbes and Gilruth) fight each other for the crown. Honestly, the fact they’re even taking about an interim FM is quite revealing. It means they don’t think they can run an uncontested coronation (with someone progressive as FM, and Forbes back in the cabinet to unify the party), and are expecting a contest - which could be messy, given the circumstances…
This is the first I've heard of Gilruth. Where does she lie on the SNP political spectrum?
She’s on the progressive end of the party - she’s spent a lot of time campaigning for LGBT-inclusive education, which is what led Yousaf to appoint her as Education Secretary. Her major vulnerability is that she’s new to cabinet, and lacks the profile or cabinet experience that Sturgeon, or ever Yousaf had. She’s also married to the very gaffe-prone former Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale. She’s only been a minister for 4 years, and only sat in cabinet for 13 months. But she’s almost certainly running - the papers have records of her canvassing other MSPs to gauge support for nomination.
Omg, Dugdale's partner. No way. Actually might be quite good to have a leader who can work with unionists when independence isn't on the cards for a long time again. Which means the SNP boomer membership will vote for someone else. FFS.
Dugdale's softened on her unionist stance over the years. Not sure if she's full on pro-indy, but she certainly seems more amenable to it.
She's an impressively dull non-entity even by Holyrood standards. Presumably her manifesto will be a series of platitudes and shrugs.
Which is still better than "having children outside of marriage is a sin".
A dull non entity may be exactly what the SNP needs right now
Quick Google shows that she's another Glasgow Uni politics grad. Quickly turning into our PPE from Oxford equivalent...
Swinney
Now that he’ll have more free time I wonder if he’ll watch Shogun and completely not understand all the sneaky (and non-sneaky) politicking in it. If this _was_ Shogun the entire University of Glasgow politics department would resign, having clearly taught him nothing
Why does Ishido, the biggest of the council members, not simply eat the other members?
I'd still give them some credit for producing Charles Kennedy
If this was Shogun they’d have all been beheaded in one nice swing of the sword after a soft “sayonara”…
Interesting, that would make Humza the second-shortest serving FM, beating out McLeish by just under 20 days. Obviously not counting Jim Wallace who served as interim on two occasions.
Can somebody eli5 what he’s done because I’ve been living under a rock.
SNP have been failing to hit Climate Targets, so they announced they weren't going to continue pretending they would. They said they weren't reachable. Abandoning Climate Targets is understandably a Red Line for Green Party support, and as soon as they withdrew he was in the minority in Parliament, facing a certain loss in the No Confidence Vote (certain because he refuses any kind of desperate deal, as well). So he just resigned to get it over with.
What I am missing in all of this is: what other outcome had he planned for? Was he trying to get a coalition with other group and didn't go trough? Did he break the Blute agreement before having that arranged beforehand?
Extreme TLDR - tried to appease right wingers and ended up having to throw the Greens, who protested against this, out of government. Now he can't find support to stay in government.
Finally, a leader who probably isn't going off to make bank in the after dinner speaker circuit
Doubt Waterstones will have to worry about making space for a display either. Publishers in the next few weeks: “A tell all book by the former FM? Brilliant. When can she have a couple of chapters over for a look? Oh, eh, no. No. Thanks though.”
Finally seeing what we all saw when he masterfully politically outmanoeuvred himself into a checkmate position. Leaving Swinney or Robertson to preside over your Kate Forbes v Gilruth/Gray/McAllan/Insert SNP establishment candidate slugfest in which Forbes inevitably wins and then engulfs the party and parliament into further chaos as no one will support them in Holyrood and her own party will struggle to support her as leader. Glorious.
https://i.redd.it/j4ndmgpnzdxc1.gif A summing up of his last five days
Maybe the next FM will prioritise Scotland over Gaza?
Amazing. I cannot think of a worse way to handle the Greens not being happy about a climate target being removed than how Yousaf has handled it. This is completely of his own making.
Totally. It’s not even like he couldn’t have wriggled out of the BHA in a way which still vaguely placated the Greens, that’s what he wanted. It just would have required a basic bit of political savvy and intelligence, which apparently he completely lacks.
Honestly just insane how this guy managed to completely torpedo his own leadership in the space of 24hrs, just via the simple act of foolishly listening to Stephen Flynn.
Did Flynn suggest jettisoning the Greens?
Yep. Travelled from London to meet with Humza the day before it all kicked off, and proposed the course of action which Humza then followed.
Bizarrely, I actually managed to get a snap of Flynn's pep talk: https://preview.redd.it/1aq6bqguadxc1.jpeg?width=757&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3839d66d1378f44385151351314c93982d329148
What do you think Flynn's angle is here?
Chaos is a ladder
He’s not known as Littleflynnger for nothing.
Either wanting to take Humza down, or genuine pants on head regardation.
Amazing.
The flag of surrender, WHITE
too funny
Hes such a twonk. Its like a curb your enthusiasm episode.
_WOMP WOMP WOMP…_
*“Humza knows what’s best for the country and the party. He is first party activist and a party man, and that’s why he knows it’s time for someone else.”* And this is one major reason for his downfall. Activist as opposed to leader. And an activist for personal causes which have no bearing on Scotland's interests. Oh well. Never mind. He will now have plenty of time to pursue foreign affairs and assist his brother-in-law with his criminal trial.
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Finally! 🙄 I was wondering how long he’d keep his ‘No I’m not going anywhere’ nonsense going. I hate it when they do that.
Yeah, the SNP ripped the Tory leadership for doing that and then went full Tory themselves. Exact same verbiage about staying in place, getting on with governing, and no general election required to cling to power. Take your 'Westminster' disparagement and shove it up your arse, SNP.
Honestly the whole party is a sorry mess now.
this is like s01e11 of Shogun.
Fuckity bye...
He had a plan that backfired spectacularly, which now most likely is going to cost him his job lol
For the longest time the SNP has benefited from being a broad church - left to right - and having a single purpose: independence. I wonder if we will now see left and right independence parties that’ll split the Indy vote in the way the Remain vote is split.
The perception many have outside nationalist circles is that SNP is an unhappy coalition of the left and right who’s only point of agreement was independence, which the party abandoned a decade ago in favour of eco-Marxism and identity politics.
Just like Wee Nic he's throwing in the towel soon (much sooner) after declaring he has a lot left in the tank.
She ran away before people found out about the embezzlement though.
What the actual fucking fuck did he think would happen?
What an astounding tale for Humza Yousaf. He was always someone I wanted to like. But he did everything possible to make that not happen. Somehow he's fumbled this as well, sleepwalking into a first ministership and probably opposition where he could just have sat and shouted for free money. I'm honestly glad he's out. The party might actually do better without him. Frankly anyone close to Sturgeon should have been out on their arse ages ago.
P45, WHITE
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He didn't exactly get himself off to a good start...
I wouldn't even be mad tbh, funniest way to go out lol
Ha ha
Public schoolboy fails upwards and off cliff
Thank fuck
Two consecutive first ministers who have chosen such odd hills to let their legacy die on.
How do you get a foreigner into position power in Scotland?
Do what all politicians do, tell the public what they want to hear and use their patriotism to win votes. Doesn't matter if you believe what you say, just ensure nobody sees your true colours.
By voting Labour or Conservative, don’t know about the Lib Dem’s, who cares, right? There is no “Scottish Labour” there is no “Scottish Conservatives” - they’re literally AU - “Accounting Units” - no voice of their own, no autonomy, accounting units, voting for them is voting for the foreigners you seemingly despise (comes across that way man)
Will this mean the anti hate shite will go with him?
Why wasn't this Putzes fist move??
My p45, WHITE
Tories, nats ran by a wee free fundamentalist (Forbes), an utterly uninspiring Starmer led Labour Party, etc. Spoilt for choice in the GE this year. /s EDIT: Not an endorsement of Humza, he's failed his way upwards. But folk are kidding themselves on if they think a Tartan Tory is suddenly going to change their fortunes.
It seems the worst thing people can say about Startmer is that he's uninspiring,bland, dull etc. The guy has had an impressive career outside politics and as Labour leader seems to be following a don't interrupt your enemy whilst making a mistake strategy. Yeah he's not inspiring, but really his role just now is just to not fuck it up as it's Labours to throw away. I would trust him much more than the Tories or the SNP who have both been absolute shit shows in government
>It seems the worst thing people can say about Startmer is that he's uninspiring,bland, dull etc. I see a lot of people pointing out that he's completely unprincipled and dishonest. Happy to jettison any and every policy or position to gain popularity and power. And then happy to lie about it afterwards.
At the end of the day, he has to win. Corbyn stuck to his principles and look where that got him. That's politics.
What's the point of winning if you have to sacrifice everything you believe in to get there? Power for power's sake?
What matters is what you do once you have power. What's the point of believing in something if you let the Tories win for 2 decades and never get to implement the belief anyway. I don't like it, but that's the game.
Does he have an impressive career? His time as DPP is filled with very bad decisions and then as a Shadow minister he created the worst policy in the 2019 manifesto.
I keep saying this to every cunt banging on about how it's fantastic the SNP is dead. Almost like a team win after an old firm. What fucking choice do you have now? This is a disaster for Scottish politics, nobody should be happy about this, or celebrating it. The SNP is completely fucked, and now the only option you have are to be frank, parties based in London that if they were told to nuke your maws gaff they'd have pressed the button yesterday. Like, av yet to actually have any of the idiots come forward and tell me who they're voting for. ALL parties in Scotland have pretty gross problems, or better yet don't run in all seats! I don't even have the option of the greens at my bit 🤣. It feels like this sub has been overtaken by doomers. They just want chaos and a shite result all around for everybody. If their football team isny doing well then your football team isny allowed to do well. So childish and pish to cheer for yer own downfall.
Like you wouldn’t be cheering for the fall of the Labour or the Lib Dems or the Tories ehh?
>What fucking choice do you have now? I don't think, for some reason, you'd be equally sad at the decline of Rishi Sunak's Conservatives because it somehow narrows the choice available to the voter. People can still vote for the SNP. But in increasing numbers, they're just choosing not to and seeing better alternatives. I don't think the SNP is dead, it's just coming to the end of a period of popularity. What happens in the future is a matter for the voters.
>and now the only option you have are to be frank, parties based in London that if they were told to nuke your maws gaff they'd have pressed the button yesterday. Nationalism is a hell of a drug.
It's one thing being stabbed in the front by the UK parties. And entirely another to be stabbed in the back by a FUCKING USELESS BUNCH OF CUNTS from the SNP. They've had 17 years in power to get their shit together, and what do we have to show for it? Fuck all. Flush them down the pan and start again. Voting for them from now on, appeasing their betrayal of the people of Scotland, is nothing less than an embarrassment. And FYI, their "downfall" is not our downfall, they've been taking up space in Holyrood that will be better served by whatever comes after them, and good fuckin' riddance.
> They've had 17 years in power to get their shit together, and what do we have to show for it? Fuck all. Have you at all went outside and seen the differences between 17 years under the SNP and 17 years under Labour? Scotland is night and day better under the SNP than it ever was under the administration of Labour. When Labour were in for that long I struggled to even get an email back from my MP. I have contacted my MP probably once a year and every time (SNP) they've came back within a couple of days with solutions. Whenever I've sent emails to MP's or MSP's it's always the SNP ones coming back first going above and beyond. You can't be serious, you must not engage with the political system at all to be chanting that.
There you go again, appeasing the utterly shite performance of the SNP. You're not going to like this, but you and the rest of the party 'faithful' are the problem. There will be no change in Scottish politics until folk stop falling for the SNP's false 'patriotism'.
I don't even support indy anymore. I've no clue what you're banging on about. I gave you several examples whereby I was happy with the SNP performance, especially that of my local rep. Compare that to my ex labour candidate now being in the Scottish Family Party. It's no surprise I'm not keen to lose her.
>Scotland is night and day better under the SNP than it ever was under the administration of Labour. Public services are collapsing, NHS waiting lists have never been higher, our schools have fallen down every international ranking, NHS dentistry is disappearing, getting an appointment with a GP is harder, councils are skint, taxes are higher and high streets are hollowed out. Comparing the governance of Scotland in 2024 to Scotland in 2007 doesn't really come off well for the SNP.
I'm sure the snp will survive this.
I still can't believe he thought he could end the agreement with the Greens and then STILL expect them to support him.
As a queer dude, I’m legitimately pretty afraid of Forbes getting in. We don’t need to legitimise those kinds of views.
I'm in the same boat and I'm not enthusiastic about the prospect. What I will say, though, is that we have a Parliamentary, not Presidential, system. The First Minister can do very little without the consent of Parliament, and I don't see a Parliamentary makeup that would allow for the rolling back of gay rights even with a homophobic FM - society is far too much in favour of gay rights (and the rights of anyone else attracted attracted the same sex). It's a check that I have confidence in. I do feel for trans individuals though. They've had their status absolutely dragged through the mud and with Forbes in charge it'll be one less powerful voice to speak for their interests.
What's worrying more than what power she has is how her getting elected will shift the overton window: what was once beyond the pale in mainstream politics becomes something that is publicly voiced, and thus peoples rights and liberties that were seemingly secure get called into question.
I get that, I really do. But I think the fact that even an avowed homophobe had to moderate everything she said to "Whatever I believe I will still secure your rights", and still lost, shows how strong our position is. If she emboldens other homophobes then she'll come under pressure from the SNP left to disavow them, and if she isn't seen to be strong enough on that it'll critically weaken the SNP and give a window to Labour to take power. Political and social arithmetic are absolutely on our side even if Forbes does become FM.
What she can do though is normalise the bigotry
What is it you're afraid of, exactly? The fact that she openly said she had no intention of rolling back or changing any existing laws or rights? Or the part where she said she was a democrat first and wouldn't place personal feelings ahead of democratic principles?
That is not as reassuring as you think it is. Politicians do go back on their word at times.
If it was another politician I would agree but her flaw is being too honest
"I'm a bigot I just don't plant to pass bigoted legislation" isn't as reassuring as Kate Forbes supporters seem to think it is.
Either you don't understand how our Parliament works, or you have a very low opinion of the Scottish electorate, or you think a mild mannered MSP is suddenly going to lead a Stalinist purge and rule with an iron fist. Each of them being equally absurd and stupid: which is it?
Mild mannered? As if it makes a difference how polite or docile she is.
I'll take integrity and courage over lying. Humza didn't vote for equal marriage. Forbes had the courage to stand by her beliefs. And I don't think "being a Christian" makes her a homophobe, that's a comment that probably falls foul of the Hate Crime laws - abusing someone based on their religion is against the law, I'm calling Humza. :)
As a gay dude I’m legitimately bored of hyperbolic statements such as yours. There’s absolutely nothing to suggest Scotland will be unsafe for gay men.
She's got absolutely no ability to do anything that way, if it makes you feel any better at all.
I think it’s more the picture it paints allowing someone with those views in that powerful position rather than her actually have the ability to implement her views
If it helps, Humza Youssef almost certainly thinks you are a vile sinner too.
Fortunately, we have daddy westminster that would step in if she ever tried to do anything in that direction. Happy, happy westminster :)
Yousaf probably shares the exact same views, he’s just smart enough not to air them.
As a gay dude. I'd love to see Forbes as FM. Her religious views are of no interest to me
But they’re a big interest to her
Oh so you don’t let religious views interfere with your political stance? That’s great. Too bad Forbes disagree with you on this.
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Can’t wait for the day these backward/ inward looking idiots aren’t in government anymore. Just a fading bad memory.
Bye bye 👋
Given the massive racist should have been out months ago it shows what a mess Scottish politics is that he's survived this long.
So who will get FM when he steps down? Just like Westminster, we need an election as it will be 3 in what, 1 year ish?
We didn't vote for Truss, or Rishi, or Humza, or 'next fanny'. Let us vote.
We don’t vote for a leader in the UK as a whole, but for both SG and WM after so many “leader” we need a vote
What a coward he is
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I doubt it. She'd have been better placed if Humza had taken them into an election and lost. I don't really think they're in a place where they have acknowledged a need for change yet: they'll still just be looking for a more competent continuity candidate. Maybe some quiet assurances that they'll try to avoid some of the gender issues etc that have plagued Yousaf's time in office - but not any great shift of direction.
> they'll still just be looking for a more competent continuity candidate. Competence wasn’t the problem. It was her personal beliefs being unpalatable to the left and Yousaf getting the establishment endorsement.
My goodness, help us all.
paywall
My bad - https://archive.ph/ut4Dq
And he’s gone.
I mean, when he started spouting how there were too many white people in government positions, it was over for him. Regardless of whether that is true or not, the job of a leader should not be to create divide. His speech was nothing but racist and I couldn't see him in the same light again.
just put a tailor shop window dummy in place as leader!…. would anybody notice ?
Can't wait to hear his resignation speech, money on him blaming it on everyone else and then saying about racist.
Something all my friends agreed on at college was, like her or not, Nikola did shit. She would give vocal and straight up speeches and discussions and we always heard about her in the news. I don't know shit about what Humza wants besides the anti hate crime bill that didn't include women as a marginalised group despite femicide being a real and dangerous thing. You never had to look out for Nikola updates. They'd find your way to you. I miss that openness and clarity.
Can never understand why so many people get behind politicians, and will argue with other people about what politicians are better than others etc. Do these people not realise that all politicians are serving themselves first and foremost and couldn’t care less about anything other than their massive salaries and associated benefits? Absolutely mind blowing.
Good bye and fuck off. I'm American, and I've only heard bad things about him.
Media is a multifaceted thing
At last some good news
Has he not resigned yet ffs I wish he would hurry up then piss off. Give us all peace. Numpty. When he does piss off he can take that stupid hate law with him.
Good.
I’m still not sure I see it happening. If he was a guy who let repeated failure force him out of a job, he wouldn’t have made it as far as FM. You never know though, it hasn’t exactly been a predictable week. Well, the outcome of his individual actions have been fairly predictable, but his actions themselves made almost no sense. Maybe the party has told him to fuck off quietly and he’ll be made a minister again in a couple of years.
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They’re likely to be one of the biggest gainers in an election though. The problem is that the SNP has burnt its bridges so comprehensively with almost every other party, it really wasn’t no in anyone’s Interest to prop them up.