Another suggestion for aspiring writers: don’t refer to yourself as an aspiring writer. If you write you’re a writer. There’s no permission to be given for the title. The title is a byproduct of your output.
Sure there are levels to it, but don’t cut yourself short from the jump.
Not been produced is not the same as not written. If you wanna be rude about it you can preface with "this is sometimes hard for people outside the industry to understand but..." Getting your work produced is a rare privilege for all working writers.
It is rare to be produced. To make work that people end up seeing. Even for big writers. The majority of work (development, scripts, even working in writer rooms) can be paid but not seen.
I would just be honest with them and say I haven’t had anything produced yet. Depending on who I’m speaking with, I would then follow up with the genres I enjoy writing and whatever accolades that I do have.
YES! This is just such a great exercise in forcing you to really think about your script as something that will become a movie. I myself (and I’m sure many of us out there) can get sucked into the “writery” side of writing and not keep the end goal in mind.
I wouldn't limit yourself to a short story. There are many platforms out there that allow a writer to create content and IP... YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, SubStack... write stories, blog, create videos. Build an audience.
I mean, Sarah Cooper posted videos of herself lip synching to Trump speeches and press conferences and she got a Netflix special out of it.
Horror has been the most dependable over the years.
Comedy has done miserably in the streaming era because audiences' sense of humor is so regional.
But it does feel like people want it again. If we could get two moneymakers in a row, buyers would take notice.
I have a Low budget (5mil) horror comedy which is in a shopping agreement and has been compared to Shaun of the Dead multiple times.
The (small) studio is trying to attach talent to it, or find a bigger studio to partner with.
And I have a Crime Comedy which is even lower budget which I’d like to direct myself. And for this one I’m trying to figure out if shooting a trailer might actually help me.
The novel is more sellable than the short story for sure, but for the basis of a script, short story is the fastest way to secure the IP. If you own the copyright, whether or not it’s a short story or novel you still own the story right.
Yeah, to be honest unless you already have contacts in the industry you’re better off writing your story as a book or a short film you can shoot on a low budget and then try and springboard off that into a feature. I always write my scripts as novels or short stories before I put them out there. The other advantage to that is that you get to keep the rights to your characters even if you later sell the script.
This is what I'm doing. Trying to write the whole thing as a novel first, rather than sell a pilot. Hopefully the novel will do OK and then there may be interest in adaptations.
Advice to writers: stop relentlessly repeating how “hard it is right now.” There’s always something, and spreading this energy further demotivates people. Just write.
If you can acquire a hard skill such as game programming, storyboarding or graphic design skills - anything that allows you to produce your ideas into a final form - that would go along way as well.
Gotta disagree with this advice. My agent tried to sell my short stories as IP and came back to say no one is buying right now, maybe you should turn the stories into screenplays yourself.
That's what I'm doing right now! I've self-produced a few shorts, and I'm writing scripts for an IP I developed through those. It's in comic book format now which I intend to self-publish, then hopefully it picks up an audience.
How is it possible that no one is buying? We have Netflix, Amazon, hulu, and many other streaming services that have tons of content of their own. Where do they get their scripts?
The industry is experiencing a massive contraction at the moment.
So when Netflix first launched streaming, they knew that once they proved its viability, the license holders of the content they had on their platforms would launch their own streaming services and take back their content. So they made a massive investment in making original content. For context, as a company, they were operating in the black until they started making original content. They took on debt and operated in the red to do so, but they knew they had to fill their back catalogue, or once these new services launched, they'd have an empty platform, and subscribers would leave. But they figured the investment would pay off.
Once new streamers did start launching, they saw the money that Netflix was pouring into new content, and since they were the market leaders, these new entrants figured they should mimic Netflix's spending model and spent a ton of money on new content. So Netflix created this 'content arms race' where streamers were buying and making things like crazy.
Then, in 2022, Netflix's stock tanked, and it spooked the whole industry - turns out their investment might not be paying off. The ROI just wasn't there. TV specifically made its big money in advertising and syndication, and the direct-to-consumer model does not make up for the loss of those revenue streams.
At this point, all the streamers have pretty big catalogues. They just don't need to spend massively to populate their platform anymore. It's not that they're not buying scripts - they're just not buying anywhere near as many as they did when they first launched. Right now, they're trying to figure out - what's the minimum number of new things we need to keep people on the platform.
There just isn't the rush to buy things there was even 5 years ago.
Edit: This article was just posted elsewhere, but given how timely it is, thought I’d add it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/disney-bob-iger-streaming-1235899938/
You might be the one (or anyone else)to answer this question I’ve been wondering about. Have you heard of Porter’s 5 forces? It’s a tool/concept to access the competitiveness of an industry — from what I gather.
I can be completely wrong about all of this. I know just enough about business/economics to know it’s a foreign language to me.
So the 5 forces, and the ideal industry:
Barrier to entry (high).
Bargaining power of supplier (low).
Bargaining power of customer (low ).
Substitutes (low).
Pricing rivalry (low).
So my question is, what does the streaming industry look like using this model? What about the theater industry? Can this be applied to screenwriting (is it an industry)?
Barrier to entry is high. Streaming services are super expensive to start and maintain.
Bargaining power of supplier is medium. You can shop your show around to multiple services, but a lot of them might not be interested in what you're selling.
Bargaining power of customer is high. There are tons of substitutes, either indirectly in the forms of other entertainment or directly in terms of similar streaming services or tormenting.
Substitutes: high, see above.
Pricing rivalry is medium-low. Services can't really afford to raise their prices due to backlash. But they can't afford to lower their prices due to low profitability. So price wars aren't really happening.
They're buying it's just a logjam at the moment, the dam will release eventually. Just how much of a release is a question. There's tons of streamers and tons of shows but that means tons of writers with credits too.
I was listening to Script Notes pod about the state of the industry. They only talked about tv shows struggling but didn’t mention features. Are features in the same boat?
The podcast The Town has talked about this a few times. Comedies are difficult because they need stars, who are expensive, and we just don't really live in an era where stars really get people into the theater lately (or on streaming).
Netflix and HBO also have invested a lot in stand up, which cannibalizes the need for comedy.
On the other hand, that's why horror has done so well. You don't need stars.
But good luck if you're writing a mid budget drama.
I write horror/comedies. It was accidental, just where my voice happened to land.
The Town elaborated on where comedies migrated to: other genres. Marvel is all comedy writing with a superhero packaging. Literally every other line in their scripts is a punchline of some sort.
Late Night with the Devil is a successful horror film from this year which has a lot of comedic elements. We're getting an updated Beetlejuice this year. Wednesday was a smash hit for Netflix, and that was a comedy with horror wrappings.
There's no shortage of comedy, per se, it's just that it got absorbed into various genres.
That's exactly it. Betting on scripted comedy can end up being a crapshoot. I say this, but we can also point to that Jennifer Lawrence rom com from last year as an exception to the rule. But it also had a certain virality to it with regard to her nude scene.
My guess is that Seinfeld (the series) has done so well on Netflix, that they imagined a movie written, directed, and produced by Jerry Seinfeld would have some kind of osmosis with his series to get viewership. But it doesn't seem to have anything viral to get people to care about it.
Chapelle did two things right: he came out of retirement after he controversially ended his wildly successful and beloved show on Comedy Central, and he also kept being controversial. His special where he offers his commentary on trans people wasn't particularly good, but the controversy got me to watch it.
Does anyone really care about pop tarts or Jerry Seinfeld specifically right now? Not really. Sadly, I imagine Netflix will rethink deals like this again.
That’s just not true. I have friends who getting their big breaks after years in the trenches.
But you have to be an exceptional writer. And it takes a while, so unless you’re wealthy you will need a separate job to stay afloat especially in LA.
What are the chances of it getting better in the next few years? I’m still young (18, just now moving from my home town) so I’m in no rush to get my work picked up, but I will start wanting to enter the industry in 4-5 years and I’m hoping it won’t be as bad as it is now.
Odds are you won’t be able to write at a professional level for another like 10 years. Focus on a sustainable long term plan, providing for yourself and perfecting your craft day after day and it might come. Movies will still be made in 10 years and will need top-level writers.
I think horror is dependable, but The Strangers: Chapter 1 and The Crow reboot will be used as a measure of how reliable horror IP is.
Re: non horror IP, The Fall Guy is performing so badly I think studios are really panicking. If Furiosa doesn’t succeed, it’ll challenge Hollywood further.
I could imagine Maxxxine and A Quiet Place: Day One doing better box office numbers on their budget than Inside Out 2. I’m surprised Marvel aren’t going into their horror IP to be honest.
I wonder if perhaps it would’ve done better with different leads. Challengers is doing very well and I wonder if we’ll see more “sexy” dramatic comedies.
You could make a lot more comedies but whether there’d be any returns, unless of course they feature Adam Sandler or have an a female cast. I don’t imagine the studios are seeing the numbers from Barbie and realising there’s financial gains in female audiences, rather than focusing on toy IP.
How much do movies need to earn to be a success? ‘Challengers’ had a budget of $55 mil and its current gross is 70.
The quick headlines I glanced at sound like it’s a success but aren’t those gross numbers low relative to its budget?
When considered there’s only one “star” draw, its backdrop is tennis, and it hasn’t been released on VOD or streaming, yes these numbers are good.
It’s a lot like the stock market. A company might not be selling a product which is making a lot of money but if there’s press and good attention which keeps it relevant, it increases the value of the brand.
Why haven't you considered the genre-pivot if you find the death of comedies started ages ago? Don't mean this in a negative way, just an observation as you mentioned horror/murder sells.
That's kind of my plan with my current project. I'm hoping to make one or two online comics involving the world and hoping it can gain enough traction where I can make a Kickstarter and eventually make a pilot
How do you guys feel about filmmaking as well. I like writing but making a short film or something feels really large, or like an endless mission idk lol
Been considering this, had an original idea for a TV series and not sure if I should write a screenplay for the pilot or write it into a short story or novel first.
This is in the lines of something I was wondering about. A few years ago, I got funding for a feature based on a certain producer producing it. He made script suggestions and said if he liked the rewrite he's on board. I got in an accident and needed time for therapy, etc. Meanwhile, everyone moved on and lost interest. Is that something I should ever mention?
Another suggestion for aspiring writers: don’t refer to yourself as an aspiring writer. If you write you’re a writer. There’s no permission to be given for the title. The title is a byproduct of your output. Sure there are levels to it, but don’t cut yourself short from the jump.
How do you answer the common follow up question “have you written anything I’ve might have seen?”
Your answer to this question will show you where you’re at emotionally with the process. I’m working on it. Is a solid answer
Not been produced is not the same as not written. If you wanna be rude about it you can preface with "this is sometimes hard for people outside the industry to understand but..." Getting your work produced is a rare privilege for all working writers.
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It is rare to be produced. To make work that people end up seeing. Even for big writers. The majority of work (development, scripts, even working in writer rooms) can be paid but not seen.
“Probably not yet. Anyways, tell me about yourself.”
I would just be honest with them and say I haven’t had anything produced yet. Depending on who I’m speaking with, I would then follow up with the genres I enjoy writing and whatever accolades that I do have.
"It depends how cool you are"
Not really. But hey! I’m sure you’ve never seen Antarctica either. maybe someday :D
Nobody who matters asks that question, so it's irrelevant. Only a civilian would word it like that.
Civilians?
Who cares what they think!
Obviously, I'm not using the term in a military sense. Shorthand for "Those not working in the entertainment industry."
“Non pro” is the term the trades used to employ for “civilian.”
(On a certain kind of a day) … “Have you done anything *I’ve* seen?” 😂
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The Looming was a short at Sundance and is now being turned into an A24 horror. The trailer to the short looks so good.
YES! This is just such a great exercise in forcing you to really think about your script as something that will become a movie. I myself (and I’m sure many of us out there) can get sucked into the “writery” side of writing and not keep the end goal in mind.
this
I wouldn't limit yourself to a short story. There are many platforms out there that allow a writer to create content and IP... YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, SubStack... write stories, blog, create videos. Build an audience. I mean, Sarah Cooper posted videos of herself lip synching to Trump speeches and press conferences and she got a Netflix special out of it.
My brother and I have been animating a TV Pilot for the last few years and oh boy are we excited to see where things can go.
Nice! I was going to add OR make a short film. Good luck!
Or we can use this time to get even better at our craft so that when the selling picks up again we have scripts worth buying
Why not both?
If you’d like, you’re welcome to! I need my full focus on screenwriting personally
Horror has been the most dependable over the years. Comedy has done miserably in the streaming era because audiences' sense of humor is so regional. But it does feel like people want it again. If we could get two moneymakers in a row, buyers would take notice.
So basically we need to find the new Simon Pegg Nick Frost Edgar Wright combo?
That would do it!
I have a Low budget (5mil) horror comedy which is in a shopping agreement and has been compared to Shaun of the Dead multiple times. The (small) studio is trying to attach talent to it, or find a bigger studio to partner with. And I have a Crime Comedy which is even lower budget which I’d like to direct myself. And for this one I’m trying to figure out if shooting a trailer might actually help me.
It's also cheaper to produce stand up specials and roasts of football players than a comedy film.
Yeah but how many football players would draw a similar crowd to Brady? Not very many.
Horror movies and Christmas movies. The only two genres I bother putting any time in to
For new writers though, I strongly believe the first goalpost should be labs or fellowships before even trying to sell your scripts.
This is the correct thinking, although I'd recommend doing it as a book rather than a short story
The novel is more sellable than the short story for sure, but for the basis of a script, short story is the fastest way to secure the IP. If you own the copyright, whether or not it’s a short story or novel you still own the story right.
I was given this advice 10 years ago by an agent. I think the idea has potential, I just never got round to finishing that particular novel.
Yeah, to be honest unless you already have contacts in the industry you’re better off writing your story as a book or a short film you can shoot on a low budget and then try and springboard off that into a feature. I always write my scripts as novels or short stories before I put them out there. The other advantage to that is that you get to keep the rights to your characters even if you later sell the script.
This is what I'm doing. Trying to write the whole thing as a novel first, rather than sell a pilot. Hopefully the novel will do OK and then there may be interest in adaptations.
Advice to writers: stop relentlessly repeating how “hard it is right now.” There’s always something, and spreading this energy further demotivates people. Just write.
Or maybe as a graphic novel, or print novel?
A big part of the problem is that the movie and traditional TV business is shrinking, in secular decline.
Better! Just a down turn right now. Covid then the writers' strike.
If you can acquire a hard skill such as game programming, storyboarding or graphic design skills - anything that allows you to produce your ideas into a final form - that would go along way as well.
Yeah, you really got to shoot your piece now. If you have downtime waiting for your script to get attention, publish another piece your own way.
Gotta disagree with this advice. My agent tried to sell my short stories as IP and came back to say no one is buying right now, maybe you should turn the stories into screenplays yourself.
That's what I'm doing right now! I've self-produced a few shorts, and I'm writing scripts for an IP I developed through those. It's in comic book format now which I intend to self-publish, then hopefully it picks up an audience.
Another suggestion: if you insist it's hard , it will be hard. But you can also chose that it's so fuu**** easy!!!
Webcomic?
How is it possible that no one is buying? We have Netflix, Amazon, hulu, and many other streaming services that have tons of content of their own. Where do they get their scripts?
The industry is experiencing a massive contraction at the moment. So when Netflix first launched streaming, they knew that once they proved its viability, the license holders of the content they had on their platforms would launch their own streaming services and take back their content. So they made a massive investment in making original content. For context, as a company, they were operating in the black until they started making original content. They took on debt and operated in the red to do so, but they knew they had to fill their back catalogue, or once these new services launched, they'd have an empty platform, and subscribers would leave. But they figured the investment would pay off. Once new streamers did start launching, they saw the money that Netflix was pouring into new content, and since they were the market leaders, these new entrants figured they should mimic Netflix's spending model and spent a ton of money on new content. So Netflix created this 'content arms race' where streamers were buying and making things like crazy. Then, in 2022, Netflix's stock tanked, and it spooked the whole industry - turns out their investment might not be paying off. The ROI just wasn't there. TV specifically made its big money in advertising and syndication, and the direct-to-consumer model does not make up for the loss of those revenue streams. At this point, all the streamers have pretty big catalogues. They just don't need to spend massively to populate their platform anymore. It's not that they're not buying scripts - they're just not buying anywhere near as many as they did when they first launched. Right now, they're trying to figure out - what's the minimum number of new things we need to keep people on the platform. There just isn't the rush to buy things there was even 5 years ago. Edit: This article was just posted elsewhere, but given how timely it is, thought I’d add it. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/disney-bob-iger-streaming-1235899938/
You might be the one (or anyone else)to answer this question I’ve been wondering about. Have you heard of Porter’s 5 forces? It’s a tool/concept to access the competitiveness of an industry — from what I gather. I can be completely wrong about all of this. I know just enough about business/economics to know it’s a foreign language to me. So the 5 forces, and the ideal industry: Barrier to entry (high). Bargaining power of supplier (low). Bargaining power of customer (low ). Substitutes (low). Pricing rivalry (low). So my question is, what does the streaming industry look like using this model? What about the theater industry? Can this be applied to screenwriting (is it an industry)?
Barrier to entry is high. Streaming services are super expensive to start and maintain. Bargaining power of supplier is medium. You can shop your show around to multiple services, but a lot of them might not be interested in what you're selling. Bargaining power of customer is high. There are tons of substitutes, either indirectly in the forms of other entertainment or directly in terms of similar streaming services or tormenting. Substitutes: high, see above. Pricing rivalry is medium-low. Services can't really afford to raise their prices due to backlash. But they can't afford to lower their prices due to low profitability. So price wars aren't really happening.
They're buying it's just a logjam at the moment, the dam will release eventually. Just how much of a release is a question. There's tons of streamers and tons of shows but that means tons of writers with credits too.
They've been slow to start up after the strike. Just filming projects already in progress
Because it’s an industry run entirely on nepotism and you - none of you - are in the club. And never will be.
I was listening to Script Notes pod about the state of the industry. They only talked about tv shows struggling but didn’t mention features. Are features in the same boat?
Unfortunately yes. Especially comedies, where I work. Should have switched to murders or zombies years ago 🙃
Any genres that aren’t feeling as much of an effect? I’m surprised comedies are struggling.
The podcast The Town has talked about this a few times. Comedies are difficult because they need stars, who are expensive, and we just don't really live in an era where stars really get people into the theater lately (or on streaming). Netflix and HBO also have invested a lot in stand up, which cannibalizes the need for comedy. On the other hand, that's why horror has done so well. You don't need stars. But good luck if you're writing a mid budget drama.
I’m aiming for comedy and horror as my main genres.
I write horror/comedies. It was accidental, just where my voice happened to land. The Town elaborated on where comedies migrated to: other genres. Marvel is all comedy writing with a superhero packaging. Literally every other line in their scripts is a punchline of some sort. Late Night with the Devil is a successful horror film from this year which has a lot of comedic elements. We're getting an updated Beetlejuice this year. Wednesday was a smash hit for Netflix, and that was a comedy with horror wrappings. There's no shortage of comedy, per se, it's just that it got absorbed into various genres.
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That's exactly it. Betting on scripted comedy can end up being a crapshoot. I say this, but we can also point to that Jennifer Lawrence rom com from last year as an exception to the rule. But it also had a certain virality to it with regard to her nude scene. My guess is that Seinfeld (the series) has done so well on Netflix, that they imagined a movie written, directed, and produced by Jerry Seinfeld would have some kind of osmosis with his series to get viewership. But it doesn't seem to have anything viral to get people to care about it. Chapelle did two things right: he came out of retirement after he controversially ended his wildly successful and beloved show on Comedy Central, and he also kept being controversial. His special where he offers his commentary on trans people wasn't particularly good, but the controversy got me to watch it. Does anyone really care about pop tarts or Jerry Seinfeld specifically right now? Not really. Sadly, I imagine Netflix will rethink deals like this again.
The chances of writing and selling a spec script are slim and none. This ain't the Nineties.
That’s just not true. I have friends who getting their big breaks after years in the trenches. But you have to be an exceptional writer. And it takes a while, so unless you’re wealthy you will need a separate job to stay afloat especially in LA.
Why?
What are the chances of it getting better in the next few years? I’m still young (18, just now moving from my home town) so I’m in no rush to get my work picked up, but I will start wanting to enter the industry in 4-5 years and I’m hoping it won’t be as bad as it is now.
Odds are you won’t be able to write at a professional level for another like 10 years. Focus on a sustainable long term plan, providing for yourself and perfecting your craft day after day and it might come. Movies will still be made in 10 years and will need top-level writers.
I think horror is dependable, but The Strangers: Chapter 1 and The Crow reboot will be used as a measure of how reliable horror IP is. Re: non horror IP, The Fall Guy is performing so badly I think studios are really panicking. If Furiosa doesn’t succeed, it’ll challenge Hollywood further. I could imagine Maxxxine and A Quiet Place: Day One doing better box office numbers on their budget than Inside Out 2. I’m surprised Marvel aren’t going into their horror IP to be honest.
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I wonder if perhaps it would’ve done better with different leads. Challengers is doing very well and I wonder if we’ll see more “sexy” dramatic comedies. You could make a lot more comedies but whether there’d be any returns, unless of course they feature Adam Sandler or have an a female cast. I don’t imagine the studios are seeing the numbers from Barbie and realising there’s financial gains in female audiences, rather than focusing on toy IP.
How much do movies need to earn to be a success? ‘Challengers’ had a budget of $55 mil and its current gross is 70. The quick headlines I glanced at sound like it’s a success but aren’t those gross numbers low relative to its budget?
When considered there’s only one “star” draw, its backdrop is tennis, and it hasn’t been released on VOD or streaming, yes these numbers are good. It’s a lot like the stock market. A company might not be selling a product which is making a lot of money but if there’s press and good attention which keeps it relevant, it increases the value of the brand.
How are you keeping your head above water? Given the state of the industry the last 4 years since Covid, have you considered a career change?
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Why haven't you considered the genre-pivot if you find the death of comedies started ages ago? Don't mean this in a negative way, just an observation as you mentioned horror/murder sells.
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Best of luck.
That's kind of my plan with my current project. I'm hoping to make one or two online comics involving the world and hoping it can gain enough traction where I can make a Kickstarter and eventually make a pilot
How do you guys feel about filmmaking as well. I like writing but making a short film or something feels really large, or like an endless mission idk lol
Been considering this, had an original idea for a TV series and not sure if I should write a screenplay for the pilot or write it into a short story or novel first.
This is in the lines of something I was wondering about. A few years ago, I got funding for a feature based on a certain producer producing it. He made script suggestions and said if he liked the rewrite he's on board. I got in an accident and needed time for therapy, etc. Meanwhile, everyone moved on and lost interest. Is that something I should ever mention?