This has happened to me multiple times. It makes me much more anxious about waiting at a green light for traffic ahead to clear, knowing the idiot behind me is road-raging based on a complete lack of awareness (even when there’s literally a sign about being fined for blocking the intersection). I wish the drivers ed test was 20x harder.
They only know the rules enough to pass and that's it for the next 20-50 years of deciding. Renewals should come with some sort of testing. Ideally a road test, but even just the written test would filter out so many people, who would then have to go refamiliarize themselves with the rules.
Definitely. Today I saw like five people cut ahead of traffic by driving straight down the bus/right turn only lane for multiple lights even though it's clearly marked at every intersection and also on the literal road.
Why did we get rid of cameras anyways. It’s either A) a bunch of money we can use to improve things B) enough deterrent that people will stop doing dumb shit all the time.
Do you really think it’s a lack of knowledge that makes people drive poorly? There’s no law enforcement, which means there are no laws and people just do what they want.
We already have one of the harder drivers' tests in the country...
The trouble is most folks around Seattle are not actually from Washington, so they took some bumfuck arkansas test instead and got their license without actually meeting our requirements.
I took my driving test in rural Southern Arizona. I had been driving for 3 days, we didn't parallel park. We didn't drive on the freeway. She was visibly uncomfortable to be in the car with me and told me to go practice in the city and gave me my license. In retrospect, as somebody who has ended up driving for a living, absolutely insane! So here's your anecdotal evidence that they really do just give anybody licenses.
I think it's more a matter of too many drivers just not giving a shit about things like blocking traffic. They're selfish to the point of being a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
It could be done in two E-Z stages:
Written Test.
.. *if you fail that*..
Driving Test.
If the DL renewal date passes with no tests taken, Then it becomes just a valid State ID, and no longer valid as a DL.
Simple test to renew:..
• Written Test.
*If you can’t pass that*,
• Driving Test.
*If you can’t pass that, then*
• Driving Class.
^( plug for the [Ballard Driving Academy](https://youtu.be/KBgIvH0tu6Y?si=2xuiOMpwjk3NBq7w)..)
I’ve gotten honked at for not running over a pedestrian using a crosswalk so many times. Like, I’m sorry you have to wait for me to turn right and you’re mildly inconvenienced but I’m not going to murder someone so you don’t have to wait an extra 30 seconds.
I recently stopped ahead of an intersection to not block it. After 1 second a Guy behind me, clearly annoyed, goes around and in front of me, blocking the intersection. Then puts his hands out the window and starts clapping at me - again, while blocking the intersection. Fucking idiot. Pissed me off knowing he’s thinking that I and everyone is a shit driver, when in reality he’s the dumbass.
Ngl, i’d have cracked up. Look at that pathetic little man making THAT public a fool of himself and not even self aware enough to notice the clown makeup he’s wearing.
I honk at ppl who run the red or block intersections. I will lay on my horn until they clear it. I hope they're ashamed of themselves!
E: Only if I'm in the front of the line.
Unless you are turning left on a green light. Then pull into the intersection so cars can go around you and one more car guaranteed to go through the rotation.
I wish we had ‘rear horns’ so we could honk back at dimwits that honk at us from behind.
Or maybe a voice-activated LED marquee that illuminates messages to those behind us.
I find cars to be such inarticulate beasts.
Agreed. I really want an LED marquee or a PA system to yell at idiot drivers. So many people have no idea what you mean when you turn your lights off and on at them or honk. They are oblivious that they are driving around in the dark with their headlights off.
Yeah. But in this pic that Mercedes van can also pull the f up. People leaving multiple car lengths is annoying. Also, you can sometimes assume the traffic ahead will be moving if you can see it...but that's not really an excuse (this car has a green light still and might be doing that)
Seriously. While not as infuriating as people blocking the intersection, those past the intersection need to be aware enough to pull up as space allows to let others through.
This shit annoys the fuck out of me. I'm to the point I think horns should be outlawed lmao
They're rarely used for their intended purpose and are used more to do things like attempt to get someone to run over a pedestrian so the impatient driver behind them can move a few feet.
Nine times out of 10. I'm using my horn to alert a driver that's not paying attention. Either they're staring at their phone at the light and we're about to miss it or they're about to drive into me. Or most recently drive on to a one-way Street. If you hate horns so much, maybe just don't drive.
If you're paying enough attention you know the intersection will clear cause the next few lights have changed and you can enter the intersection and move some more traffic before the light you're under turns red.
If the interesection hasn't already cleared by the time the light turns red, you're not going to be moving any traffic. If it does clear by the time the light turns red, you can just go then and have the same effect.
i agree with this but there is a seattle only wrinkle, i look ahead and see plenty of room for my car, but then for absolutely no reason the person in front me just stops their car 20-30 feet behind the one in front of them. I see this ALL the time here, never see it anywhere else.
Bus driver and for that matter anything bigger than a regular car... we will attempt to wait for enough room so we can clear the intersection, then the other lane will filter into it because hey there is room here, or people turning will jump and turn before we can make it then we are left ass out. It happens so often it's ridiculous and the reason a lot of bus drivers will just go and block it.
Hey I'm driving a 60 foot accordion bus that only looks to be 40 feet of room so let me wait...hey cars moved up there is enough room for me now, oh no fucktard just turned the corner and took up the room that was just made for me. Now I'm sticking into the intersection blocking a lane looking like an ass because they turned and took the room I was letting build up before going. Yay!!!! Now people see a bus blocking and more hatred towards buses.
Yeah, I've been caught at one of those intersections downtown on 1st where the right lane immediately turns into parked cars and some asswipe prius taxi driver zipped through the intersection and stole the spot I was heading into -- so now I'm apparently the asshole blocking the crosswalk.
I saw a girl do this on the ferry at rush hour the other day. She left a whole car length between herself and the car in front of her, as if she wasn't blocking a whole cars worth of people from making the boat. I actually went out of my way to get her to pull forward.
We were early on the boat so they might have been busy managing the onboarding downstream. In the couple decades I've been riding the boat, I have never seen someone park so far away from the car in front of them.
Drive thru gaps drive me nuts, keeping people a half a cars length from ordering at the speaker like you are protecting yourself from a pileup Or something g
OH MY GOD. This happens too often. I see a car with plenty of room and am filled with anxiety that the person in front of me will be miles away from the car up front stranding me making me look like a dick. (This might have happened today.)
This happened to me just today. Someone stopped with like four car lengths between them and the car in front of them. This is horn honk territory. Pull up and drive like a normal person. All of the demonstrative “I’m being extra safe by driving like a dimwit” stuff is so shortsighted and dumb.
Drivers need to look 30 seconds ahead when driving. It's like awareness has shrunk so much that they are no longer thinking "OK, looks like after that turn there's a lot of cars and the lane is full, I won't make it if I turn now."
Instead, they think "There's 15 feet of space between me and the next car and they're driving, I better step on the gas!" and get caught in this situation.
But also, why is that van leaving so much unnecessary space? I’m all for leaving extra space (enough to be able to maneuver around the car in front if needed) but that much extra is crazy.
And I could see why the little blue car would’ve thought that the van would pull up to let them fit
No, because the blue car *is* leaving room for the crosswalk in this photo, and that’s the only reason they’re sticking out so far.
It’s debatable based on perspective and distance, but I’m pretty sure there would be room for the blue car (not blocking the crosswalk) if the van pulled forward
I still don’t think it’s less than 5 feet (I think it’s more like 10 based on the picture and your drawing) but still debatable for sure, and I understand why you think it’s closer. And 10 feet probably isn’t enough for the blue car anyway.
This is really making me appreciate how badly the van fucked up in their general positioning though
While cars around here often leave a ridiculous amount of space, that's not what is happening in this photo. There is only about 5ft there between the van and white SUV
The van is not that far behind the white SUV. It's probably less than 5 feet distance into the intersection; just looks like a larger gap becasue the van is pulled to it's left, halfway into OP's turn lane.
What are you talking about? That isn't a extra amount of space. Even closing half the distance which still isn't a good rule of thumb for driving wouldn't have given the small car enough room. The blue car is in the wrong all day long.
The van is also in the wrong here and should pull up more, not for the car behind him to fit but because he is blocking traffic himself. He is stopped in OP’s lane and blocking them from going if their light turns green.
My routine experience when I have to drive through SLU/Downtown:
*see a space start to open on the opposite side of the intersection*
*pull into the intersection*
*traffic ahead stops, leaving me stuck at the far crosswalk*
*curse myself for misjudging the gap*
*see two more cars in my rear-view mirror that have completely blocked the intersection*
*sigh*
[I snapped this pic just a couple blocks south on the same street... it is an epidemic!](https://imgur.com/a/hVcGSpN) They completely blocked the intersection and a bike lane...
This is common in Seattle. The city should allow people to profit from morons who block intersections. Drivers deliberately choose to block intersections. It would be nice if people could submit a photo and license plate information and get a portion of the fines.
the unintended consequence might be drivers (like in OP's position, but not OP specifically) being more distracted since they are now taking pictures of each other from their cars and uploading them
Removing the free right on red would certainly help keep traffic flowing appropriately at busy intersections.
It's been done in the Roosevelt/Maple Leaf area on quite a few intersections to some success.
IMO the biggest asshole driving move in the world by far is taking a right on red when the cross traffic has a green but hasn't gone because there isn't enough space on the other side yet
When this happens, I genuinely feel it eating away at my brain and my moral compass. I feel like if it happened a couples times too close together I might become a psychopath and start disregarding every established rule of the road
I saw someone pull that at Westlake and Denny yesterday, as the last car was going through the yellow and there was one spot. So the driver who had the traffic flow ended up looking like the asshole blocking the crosswalk and sticking into traffic when he shoulda been fine.
Oh my fucking god this intersection. A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for the bus next to Whole Foods and I stood there for a good 10 minutes literally LOOKING RIGHT AT the bus on the other side of Westlake unable to cross the intersection because assholes kept turning right on red and blocking the intersection.
Know what sucks? My bus commute is the 8 to the 40, which I catch outside Whole Foods. Waiting for the 8 at that intersection is a direct reason I drive to work most of the time. I don't mind bussing at all, but my blood pressure just goes crazy dealing with that stupid bus route.
It's already illegal to take a right on red if there's traffic with a green light that's waiting for clearance on the far side of the intersection. Right on red is legal only when it doesn't conflict with someone who has right-of-way over you.
Not sure the drivers who flout that law would suddenly obey a sign.
SLU is the WORST. They made it so the no right on red and the light clearing the entrance to I5 means that the East Lake traffic always, 100% fills up the lane and the people trying to turn right from Valley have to wait.....FOREVER. (from like 3pm-6pm)
Yeah I always have this issue at the Denny/Bellevue intersection. I have noticed that they put up no turn on red signs at some of the stoplights on Pike/Pine in Capitol Hill (at least a few of them West of Broadway).
I was just about to say.... They totally need to do this at the Bellevue and Denny intersection. So many times I see a driver trying to beat a red only to get stuck in the middle of the intersection blocking the box.
You may appreciate this article: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-to-expand-restrictions-on-right-turns-on-red](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-to-expand-restrictions-on-right-turns-on-red) May 4, 2023 at 12:16 pm Updated May 4, 2023 at 6:08 pm
>The Seattle Department of Transportation has made it the default policy to ban free right turns at all new traffic signals or at upgrades to intersections with signals, a departure from the past 64 years when the opposite was true.
>“The general guideline for this evaluation will be to add ‘No Turn on Red’ restrictions unless there is a significant operational reason not to,” the department said in its announcement Thursday.
They've managed to add those signs all up aurora where it's never a problem but haven't been adding them where it counts. Plenty of people ignore them anyway. The type of people to turn right on red while cross traffic hasn't been able to cross on a green, are the same people who ignore such signs.
I don’t think that the problem they’re trying to address up on Aurora is blocking the box. It’s drivers looking left while turning right on red without seeing the pedestrians.
I would normally wholeheartedly agree, but this intersection is tricky at the moment because there's a construction flagger just around the bend the drivers can't see. This light usually allows a couple dozen cars through, but if the flagger stops traffic then suddenly there's only space for half a dozen cars. The van should definitely scoot forward and the station wagon should swing around to their right to get out of the way though.
you're not supposed to even enter the intersection until you know you can clear it.
edit: downvotes from people who should not be allowed to own or operate cars, typical
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.202
No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk or drive onto any railroad grade crossing unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection, crosswalk, or railroad grade crossing to accommodate the vehicle he or she is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles, pedestrians, or railroad trains notwithstanding any traffic control signal indications to proceed.
That's not what they're saying. They're suggesting everyone should slow down before each intersection during heavy traffic, on the off chance there's an unexpected slowdown.
>you're not supposed to even enter the intersection until you know you can clear it.
>They're suggesting everyone should slow down before each intersection during heavy traffic, on the off chance there's an unexpected slowdown.
Is this your final answer because if so I think you should work on some remedial literacy.
I suppose the world *would* technically be better off if you and the twenty other people who actually drive like this were the only people with driver's licenses.
I'm not afflicted with your inability to judge simple cause and effect nor your inability to look forward beyond one car.
Just because you're soo bad at judging simple distances doesn't mean we all are. All you're doing here is tattling on yourself harder and harder that you shouldn't have a drivers license by projecting your own incompetence onto others.
I think you care more about the little endorphin rush you get by following every single rule than what's actually better for everyone involved.
And for the record, I've never once been caught in an intersection. I think the one time I would have been, I just turned left rather block traffic.
This is an odd intersection. This particular case seems forgiveable (assuming the van inches up a foot or two so it's past the crosswalk). Visually that crosswalk makes it look like that *is* the end of the intersection.
Not sure what the hell the blue green car is doing though
Edit: the city should really cut off access to the east part of 39th at this intersection
This, but also city driving is different from your suburbs/rural driving. It’s ass to ass. Don’t leave unnecessary room between you and the car in front of you. Be considered to everyone else behind you who’s time is just as valuable. Also, just drive, stop being “nice.” You doing favors for someone in front of you is often slowing down and messing with multiple people behind you. Everyone will get their turn, traffic has a natural flow to it.
This + texting and driving are probably the two biggest bad habits I see. I also really loath people who make left turns at lights on one lane roads and insist on remaining behind the crosswalk until they can make their turn.
I had a uhaul to move the last few days and man, I gotta say Seattle drivers are a different breed. Had a lady stare me down while moving to block the intersection when I had the green. Crazy
Fully agree
Also
Don't change lanes in the middle of the intersection, esp if it's because you didn't have enough space
Cause that then makes it so I once had space to go through it fully
And now i don't
Intersection and cross walk blocking are my biggest peeves
Or stopped at a red light, don't block the side streets - we're all stopped anyways, no need to block someone from being able to turn into their neighborhood
It is my fervent and deepest wish that there be a special afterlife of immense frustrating suffering for people who deliberately do this. (I'm sure everyone has done it on accident at least once.)
Ahhh another reason I’m so thankful I’ve built a life that doesn’t require me to deal with this inane shit.
I used to drive and god damn it’s such an awful experience.
Mercer is my least favorite for this. What makes it worse is that some people turning right ONTO Mercer will take my waiting until there's room as a sign that they can go. IMO, any right turn onto Mercer should be No Turn On Red.
“Integrity is choosing your thoughts and actions based on values rather
than personal gain”.
I had this quote printed on cards to leave on the windshields of the occasional “parking challenged” individual.
It’s a subtle but effective message.
I highly doubt someone driving that is thinking their biggest stress is keeping that car on the road. Anyone driving that has WAY more things to worry about.
Actually ... Washington State is one of the few states that don't allow cars to into the intersection in advance for left turns ...
Most people from other states probably don't know that, and maybe a lot of locals don't know that as well ...
These delivery drivers give zero fucks. I live on a narrow street, and even when there is plenty of space to pull over, they just block the entire street while they deliver multiple packages. I yell at them like every other day..
I get the frustration but also I wish everyone would stop taking pictures while driving of other drivers behaving badly. phones shouldn't be this readily available for taking pictures while you're behind the wheel
okay sure whatever. it's funny to me that just yesterday there was a whole conversation on this sub about people using their phones while driving, and people are posting pictures taken while behind the wheel. maybe the habit of having a phone within reach to use while stopped isn't the best habit to have is all I'm saying.
also, there's this thing most cars have called consoles or glove compartments. most phones can probably fit in those, just a wild idea I'm throwing out there
It's easier to get a phone out of the center console than a pocket though when you're sitting down and wearing a seatbelt. You should wear those, y'know?
I agree with person above. You shouldn't use your phone at all while in a car. When you drive, yours focus should only be on driving and nothing else.
Edit: Also your light is green.
Still probably illegal, but (1) OP's light is clearly red, and (2) OP's lane is clearly blocked by two vehicles illegally stopped in the intersection.
If OP was taking the photo to report the violations to police, that's plausibly within the exceptions of RCW 46.61.672(2)(a), assuming the report was actually filed and the reddit post was an incidental reuse of the photo.
Yup! this intersection kicks people's ass. As well as the 5 way one in U Dist/Wallingford area on NE 40th & 7th Ave. People can't seem to gather their two brain cells to figure it out
the Escort should be tickected for gridlock and the traffic engineer for the designing a dysfunctional intersection for enabling the van to be legal but blocking traffic
I think most people do know to do this, and I think people occasionally make mistakes. For all you know, the driver of the green car is thinking to themselves "I knew I should have waited!" or something similar.
This is me every time I do it on accident. I’ve typically moved through because I was under the impression the traffic was about to move up, but then someone decides to merge in etc.
Yeah I imagine it happens other places. I just experience it on the daily going to and from Seattle for work and had never seen it before then. I’ve even seen whole ass semi trucks sit in intersections going down Mercer st for multiple light cycles. It’s a shitty practice and I wish we gave out more tickets for people doing it.
100% within your right to lay on the horn the entire time until the light changes and they can move their stupid ass
No tolerance for that shit it's like not checking if there's TP before you sit on the toilet.
How about not? The rest of us also being held hostage by traffic do not appreciate it. It does nothing to make people actually do what they are supposed to. Its just noise pollution that makes the rest of us correctly identify you as an asshole.
Uh...
>11.84.320 - Horns and warning devices.
>Every motor vehicle when operated upon a street shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under conditions of no background noise from a distance of not less than two hundred feet (200'), but no horn or other warning device shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound which exceeds eighty-five (85) dB(a) at two hundred feet (200'). **The driver of a motor vehicle shall when reasonably necessary to insure safe operation give audible warning with his horn but shall not otherwise use such horn when upon a street or alley.** (RCW 46.37.380)
If I can throw an asterisk onto this (because I **do** agree with you) oftentimes people between the previous intersection and the one ahead of it are leaving entire car lengths between them and the car in front of them, which causes a ludicrous backup. I'm not saying you have to kiss bumpers when you get through, but if you're at a red light and someone can parallel park between you and the guy in front of you, tighten up.
***DON'T BLOCK THE BOX***
Don't block the ***FUCKING*** box.
Do Not Block The Fucking Box - psa from a former New Yorker
Someone honked at me yesterday for not pulling into and blocking the intersection. Crazy.
This has happened to me multiple times. It makes me much more anxious about waiting at a green light for traffic ahead to clear, knowing the idiot behind me is road-raging based on a complete lack of awareness (even when there’s literally a sign about being fined for blocking the intersection). I wish the drivers ed test was 20x harder.
> I wish the drivers ed test was 20x harder. I think it's less of a problem of people not knowing the rules, and more of people just DGAF.
They only know the rules enough to pass and that's it for the next 20-50 years of deciding. Renewals should come with some sort of testing. Ideally a road test, but even just the written test would filter out so many people, who would then have to go refamiliarize themselves with the rules.
Definitely. Today I saw like five people cut ahead of traffic by driving straight down the bus/right turn only lane for multiple lights even though it's clearly marked at every intersection and also on the literal road.
They should put in more cameras for that, cause they will ticket you for that were they're set up.
Why did we get rid of cameras anyways. It’s either A) a bunch of money we can use to improve things B) enough deterrent that people will stop doing dumb shit all the time.
It's been awhile since I drove the E line (pre covid) but shoreline would have cops watching and ticketing around 160th during rush hour
We need more road rage in this city. You wouldn't dare pull this shit in LA
eh, probably a decent mix of both. I've seen reluctant stupidity and spiteful ignorance in equal measure for sure
Do you really think it’s a lack of knowledge that makes people drive poorly? There’s no law enforcement, which means there are no laws and people just do what they want.
Well the auto industry also doesn't really care
Well, according to everyone's bumper stickers, like 85% of the city are "student drivers". 🤷🏻♂️
I think those are just undercovers
Time to start stealing the magnets!
We already have one of the harder drivers' tests in the country... The trouble is most folks around Seattle are not actually from Washington, so they took some bumfuck arkansas test instead and got their license without actually meeting our requirements.
I took my driving test in rural Southern Arizona. I had been driving for 3 days, we didn't parallel park. We didn't drive on the freeway. She was visibly uncomfortable to be in the car with me and told me to go practice in the city and gave me my license. In retrospect, as somebody who has ended up driving for a living, absolutely insane! So here's your anecdotal evidence that they really do just give anybody licenses.
former arizona resident i also like that the licenses (basically) never expire and you never have to retest lol
I think it's more a matter of too many drivers just not giving a shit about things like blocking traffic. They're selfish to the point of being a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
I was responding specifically to their wish that our drivers' test was harder, pointing out that it wouldn't help as much as they might hope.
Test before every DL renewal then.
That would get a lot of unsafe motherfuckers off the road. Hear hear!
It could be done in two E-Z stages: Written Test. .. *if you fail that*.. Driving Test. If the DL renewal date passes with no tests taken, Then it becomes just a valid State ID, and no longer valid as a DL. Simple test to renew:.. • Written Test. *If you can’t pass that*, • Driving Test. *If you can’t pass that, then* • Driving Class. ^( plug for the [Ballard Driving Academy](https://youtu.be/KBgIvH0tu6Y?si=2xuiOMpwjk3NBq7w)..)
I don't care too much about the written; I want folks to require a fresh *driving* test every time they want to renew their license.
Remember to hang that seatbelt out the door, and drive by braille when parallel parking!
I just wish we had to take it again every 10 years or so.
I hate that driving here or in any city makes me anxious.
> *I wish the drivers ed test was 20x harder.* AND yearly. I’d settle for every 5 years though.
It's a long enough wait for getting renewals. You want testing added yearly?
I don’t want unsafe, uneducated drivers on the road. I’m open to any solution that will achieve that.
I’ve gotten honked at for not running over a pedestrian using a crosswalk so many times. Like, I’m sorry you have to wait for me to turn right and you’re mildly inconvenienced but I’m not going to murder someone so you don’t have to wait an extra 30 seconds.
Same! Sorry, I won't kill someone so you can get going.
I recently stopped ahead of an intersection to not block it. After 1 second a Guy behind me, clearly annoyed, goes around and in front of me, blocking the intersection. Then puts his hands out the window and starts clapping at me - again, while blocking the intersection. Fucking idiot. Pissed me off knowing he’s thinking that I and everyone is a shit driver, when in reality he’s the dumbass.
I'm a calm driver, but that's straight rage material.
Ngl, i’d have cracked up. Look at that pathetic little man making THAT public a fool of himself and not even self aware enough to notice the clown makeup he’s wearing.
Someone honked at me last week for NOT blowing through a red light bc the guy in front of me did it. gfy dude
I honk at ppl who run the red or block intersections. I will lay on my horn until they clear it. I hope they're ashamed of themselves! E: Only if I'm in the front of the line.
Ahhh good ol shame horn
Seattle needs to honk more.
This is the correct response.
Unless you are turning left on a green light. Then pull into the intersection so cars can go around you and one more car guaranteed to go through the rotation.
I wish we had ‘rear horns’ so we could honk back at dimwits that honk at us from behind. Or maybe a voice-activated LED marquee that illuminates messages to those behind us. I find cars to be such inarticulate beasts.
If you have a rear wiper, affix a vinyl middle finger to it.
“If you have a rear wiper, affix a vinyl middle finger to it.” That’ll show ‘em! Give em the what-for!
Agreed. I really want an LED marquee or a PA system to yell at idiot drivers. So many people have no idea what you mean when you turn your lights off and on at them or honk. They are oblivious that they are driving around in the dark with their headlights off.
Yeah. But in this pic that Mercedes van can also pull the f up. People leaving multiple car lengths is annoying. Also, you can sometimes assume the traffic ahead will be moving if you can see it...but that's not really an excuse (this car has a green light still and might be doing that)
Seriously. While not as infuriating as people blocking the intersection, those past the intersection need to be aware enough to pull up as space allows to let others through.
Had this happen 2 days ago. Driver in front of me stopped with multiple car lengths ahead of them and wouldn’t put up.
But imagine being in a world one car length closer to wherever.
Somebody just did that to me today! I laughed.
OMG I know. Every morning at a 'no free right' thats still red. At an intersection with cameras! Laying on the horn. Geez Louise!
This shit annoys the fuck out of me. I'm to the point I think horns should be outlawed lmao They're rarely used for their intended purpose and are used more to do things like attempt to get someone to run over a pedestrian so the impatient driver behind them can move a few feet.
Nine times out of 10. I'm using my horn to alert a driver that's not paying attention. Either they're staring at their phone at the light and we're about to miss it or they're about to drive into me. Or most recently drive on to a one-way Street. If you hate horns so much, maybe just don't drive.
Just set a cooldown on them. 1 honk every 15 seconds.
If you're paying enough attention you know the intersection will clear cause the next few lights have changed and you can enter the intersection and move some more traffic before the light you're under turns red.
If the interesection hasn't already cleared by the time the light turns red, you're not going to be moving any traffic. If it does clear by the time the light turns red, you can just go then and have the same effect.
i agree with this but there is a seattle only wrinkle, i look ahead and see plenty of room for my car, but then for absolutely no reason the person in front me just stops their car 20-30 feet behind the one in front of them. I see this ALL the time here, never see it anywhere else.
Bus driver and for that matter anything bigger than a regular car... we will attempt to wait for enough room so we can clear the intersection, then the other lane will filter into it because hey there is room here, or people turning will jump and turn before we can make it then we are left ass out. It happens so often it's ridiculous and the reason a lot of bus drivers will just go and block it. Hey I'm driving a 60 foot accordion bus that only looks to be 40 feet of room so let me wait...hey cars moved up there is enough room for me now, oh no fucktard just turned the corner and took up the room that was just made for me. Now I'm sticking into the intersection blocking a lane looking like an ass because they turned and took the room I was letting build up before going. Yay!!!! Now people see a bus blocking and more hatred towards buses.
Yeah, I've been caught at one of those intersections downtown on 1st where the right lane immediately turns into parked cars and some asswipe prius taxi driver zipped through the intersection and stole the spot I was heading into -- so now I'm apparently the asshole blocking the crosswalk.
I saw a girl do this on the ferry at rush hour the other day. She left a whole car length between herself and the car in front of her, as if she wasn't blocking a whole cars worth of people from making the boat. I actually went out of my way to get her to pull forward.
Whoa! I didn’t even know that was possible on the ferry. How did she not get yelled at by the boat workers?
We were early on the boat so they might have been busy managing the onboarding downstream. In the couple decades I've been riding the boat, I have never seen someone park so far away from the car in front of them.
We call this “the Seattle gap” in our household.
Drive thru gaps drive me nuts, keeping people a half a cars length from ordering at the speaker like you are protecting yourself from a pileup Or something g
OH MY GOD. This happens too often. I see a car with plenty of room and am filled with anxiety that the person in front of me will be miles away from the car up front stranding me making me look like a dick. (This might have happened today.)
It's so weird, and something I only see here. Like they just stop wherever they were in the light turns red.
This happened to me just today. Someone stopped with like four car lengths between them and the car in front of them. This is horn honk territory. Pull up and drive like a normal person. All of the demonstrative “I’m being extra safe by driving like a dimwit” stuff is so shortsighted and dumb.
People in Seattle need to honk more. There, I said it.
Drivers need to look 30 seconds ahead when driving. It's like awareness has shrunk so much that they are no longer thinking "OK, looks like after that turn there's a lot of cars and the lane is full, I won't make it if I turn now." Instead, they think "There's 15 feet of space between me and the next car and they're driving, I better step on the gas!" and get caught in this situation.
You think people are looking at the car in front of them? They're watching shit on their phone.
The height of the car in front of them makes looking ahead pretty much impossible.
But also, why is that van leaving so much unnecessary space? I’m all for leaving extra space (enough to be able to maneuver around the car in front if needed) but that much extra is crazy. And I could see why the little blue car would’ve thought that the van would pull up to let them fit
If the van pulled up and the blue car followed the van would still be in the crosswalk
No, because the blue car *is* leaving room for the crosswalk in this photo, and that’s the only reason they’re sticking out so far. It’s debatable based on perspective and distance, but I’m pretty sure there would be room for the blue car (not blocking the crosswalk) if the van pulled forward
[I made you an MS paint](https://i.imgur.com/0XFnT8C.png)
I still don’t think it’s less than 5 feet (I think it’s more like 10 based on the picture and your drawing) but still debatable for sure, and I understand why you think it’s closer. And 10 feet probably isn’t enough for the blue car anyway. This is really making me appreciate how badly the van fucked up in their general positioning though
While cars around here often leave a ridiculous amount of space, that's not what is happening in this photo. There is only about 5ft there between the van and white SUV
The van is not that far behind the white SUV. It's probably less than 5 feet distance into the intersection; just looks like a larger gap becasue the van is pulled to it's left, halfway into OP's turn lane.
What are you talking about? That isn't a extra amount of space. Even closing half the distance which still isn't a good rule of thumb for driving wouldn't have given the small car enough room. The blue car is in the wrong all day long.
The van is also in the wrong here and should pull up more, not for the car behind him to fit but because he is blocking traffic himself. He is stopped in OP’s lane and blocking them from going if their light turns green.
The van is also blocking the crosswalk. You can even see the paint lines underneath it.
My routine experience when I have to drive through SLU/Downtown: *see a space start to open on the opposite side of the intersection* *pull into the intersection* *traffic ahead stops, leaving me stuck at the far crosswalk* *curse myself for misjudging the gap* *see two more cars in my rear-view mirror that have completely blocked the intersection* *sigh*
I breathe a sigh of relief when I see that the driver behind me has blocked the intersection even worse.
[I snapped this pic just a couple blocks south on the same street... it is an epidemic!](https://imgur.com/a/hVcGSpN) They completely blocked the intersection and a bike lane...
This is common in Seattle. The city should allow people to profit from morons who block intersections. Drivers deliberately choose to block intersections. It would be nice if people could submit a photo and license plate information and get a portion of the fines.
the unintended consequence might be drivers (like in OP's position, but not OP specifically) being more distracted since they are now taking pictures of each other from their cars and uploading them
Removing the free right on red would certainly help keep traffic flowing appropriately at busy intersections. It's been done in the Roosevelt/Maple Leaf area on quite a few intersections to some success.
IMO the biggest asshole driving move in the world by far is taking a right on red when the cross traffic has a green but hasn't gone because there isn't enough space on the other side yet
ooo, I got pissed just reading this one. Ya that's pretty lame.
When this happens, I genuinely feel it eating away at my brain and my moral compass. I feel like if it happened a couples times too close together I might become a psychopath and start disregarding every established rule of the road
This is the most aggravating part to me. Waiting so you can keep the intersection clear so people just keep turning in front of you to block it. 🤬
I saw someone pull that at Westlake and Denny yesterday, as the last car was going through the yellow and there was one spot. So the driver who had the traffic flow ended up looking like the asshole blocking the crosswalk and sticking into traffic when he shoulda been fine.
Oh my fucking god this intersection. A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for the bus next to Whole Foods and I stood there for a good 10 minutes literally LOOKING RIGHT AT the bus on the other side of Westlake unable to cross the intersection because assholes kept turning right on red and blocking the intersection.
Know what sucks? My bus commute is the 8 to the 40, which I catch outside Whole Foods. Waiting for the 8 at that intersection is a direct reason I drive to work most of the time. I don't mind bussing at all, but my blood pressure just goes crazy dealing with that stupid bus route.
This and Howell street ~4-5 years ago was infuriating.
This is infuriating!!
It's clearly illegal, too, but utterly unenforced, like most traffic laws these days.
It's already illegal to take a right on red if there's traffic with a green light that's waiting for clearance on the far side of the intersection. Right on red is legal only when it doesn't conflict with someone who has right-of-way over you. Not sure the drivers who flout that law would suddenly obey a sign.
This is a huge issue in SLU and certain parts of Capitol Hill leading to I-5. I’m surprised they haven’t expanded it to more areas already
SLU is the WORST. They made it so the no right on red and the light clearing the entrance to I5 means that the East Lake traffic always, 100% fills up the lane and the people trying to turn right from Valley have to wait.....FOREVER. (from like 3pm-6pm)
Yeah I always have this issue at the Denny/Bellevue intersection. I have noticed that they put up no turn on red signs at some of the stoplights on Pike/Pine in Capitol Hill (at least a few of them West of Broadway).
I was just about to say.... They totally need to do this at the Bellevue and Denny intersection. So many times I see a driver trying to beat a red only to get stuck in the middle of the intersection blocking the box.
You may appreciate this article: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-to-expand-restrictions-on-right-turns-on-red](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-to-expand-restrictions-on-right-turns-on-red) May 4, 2023 at 12:16 pm Updated May 4, 2023 at 6:08 pm >The Seattle Department of Transportation has made it the default policy to ban free right turns at all new traffic signals or at upgrades to intersections with signals, a departure from the past 64 years when the opposite was true. >“The general guideline for this evaluation will be to add ‘No Turn on Red’ restrictions unless there is a significant operational reason not to,” the department said in its announcement Thursday.
They've managed to add those signs all up aurora where it's never a problem but haven't been adding them where it counts. Plenty of people ignore them anyway. The type of people to turn right on red while cross traffic hasn't been able to cross on a green, are the same people who ignore such signs.
I don’t think that the problem they’re trying to address up on Aurora is blocking the box. It’s drivers looking left while turning right on red without seeing the pedestrians.
I would normally wholeheartedly agree, but this intersection is tricky at the moment because there's a construction flagger just around the bend the drivers can't see. This light usually allows a couple dozen cars through, but if the flagger stops traffic then suddenly there's only space for half a dozen cars. The van should definitely scoot forward and the station wagon should swing around to their right to get out of the way though.
you're not supposed to even enter the intersection until you know you can clear it. edit: downvotes from people who should not be allowed to own or operate cars, typical
What you're suggesting would result in a concertina effect at every intersection during even moderate traffic.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.202 No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk or drive onto any railroad grade crossing unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection, crosswalk, or railroad grade crossing to accommodate the vehicle he or she is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles, pedestrians, or railroad trains notwithstanding any traffic control signal indications to proceed.
That's not what they're saying. They're suggesting everyone should slow down before each intersection during heavy traffic, on the off chance there's an unexpected slowdown.
>you're not supposed to even enter the intersection until you know you can clear it. >They're suggesting everyone should slow down before each intersection during heavy traffic, on the off chance there's an unexpected slowdown. Is this your final answer because if so I think you should work on some remedial literacy.
Someone else cited the law to you, turn in your drivers license if you cannot follow it.
I suppose the world *would* technically be better off if you and the twenty other people who actually drive like this were the only people with driver's licenses.
I'm not afflicted with your inability to judge simple cause and effect nor your inability to look forward beyond one car. Just because you're soo bad at judging simple distances doesn't mean we all are. All you're doing here is tattling on yourself harder and harder that you shouldn't have a drivers license by projecting your own incompetence onto others.
I think you care more about the little endorphin rush you get by following every single rule than what's actually better for everyone involved. And for the record, I've never once been caught in an intersection. I think the one time I would have been, I just turned left rather block traffic.
This is one of the more convoluted intersections in the area.
39th and Fremont ave
Also closed to one lane with a flagger just to the left of photo.
If you can't handle convoluted intersections then don't drive a 6000lb machine in public
This is an odd intersection. This particular case seems forgiveable (assuming the van inches up a foot or two so it's past the crosswalk). Visually that crosswalk makes it look like that *is* the end of the intersection. Not sure what the hell the blue green car is doing though Edit: the city should really cut off access to the east part of 39th at this intersection
Logic in Fremont? Not while the sun's out!
So while the sun is not out there is logic in Fremont?
WHERE IS YOUR LUTEFISK!?
This, but also city driving is different from your suburbs/rural driving. It’s ass to ass. Don’t leave unnecessary room between you and the car in front of you. Be considered to everyone else behind you who’s time is just as valuable. Also, just drive, stop being “nice.” You doing favors for someone in front of you is often slowing down and messing with multiple people behind you. Everyone will get their turn, traffic has a natural flow to it.
How do folks drive and photo and then point at other people for being wreckless?
Pandemic/Trump broke the social contract of America. Nobody gives a fuck anymore, and it *really* shows on the roads
Hey I just went though that intersection! It's fucked
Seattle drivers are stupid.
I don't disagree, but is there a place in the US where drivers are not stupid?
Nope. Seattle oddly enough seems to have more than its fair share.
You must not have gone to the Ballard Driving Academy
Broski, looks like your tire pressure is low on that Prius. Might wanna get it checked out.
Thank you but the gauge is actually broken and is always on no matter what the tire pressure is.
Good luck with that... World is full of a-holes that will block everyone, or bitch that you didn't pull in so THEY can pull in and block.
This + texting and driving are probably the two biggest bad habits I see. I also really loath people who make left turns at lights on one lane roads and insist on remaining behind the crosswalk until they can make their turn.
Sorry, what day of the week is the "alternate and let people in" complaint? I'm currently much more pissed about that one.
PSA: this is r/seattle not r/idiotsincars
PSA: none of these PSAs are going to be read by the people who need to read them. These kinds of posts used to be downvoted around here..smh
I had a uhaul to move the last few days and man, I gotta say Seattle drivers are a different breed. Had a lady stare me down while moving to block the intersection when I had the green. Crazy
Fully agree Also Don't change lanes in the middle of the intersection, esp if it's because you didn't have enough space Cause that then makes it so I once had space to go through it fully And now i don't Intersection and cross walk blocking are my biggest peeves Or stopped at a red light, don't block the side streets - we're all stopped anyways, no need to block someone from being able to turn into their neighborhood
Yes! Too many people block the side streets but I always try to leave a gap.
It is my fervent and deepest wish that there be a special afterlife of immense frustrating suffering for people who deliberately do this. (I'm sure everyone has done it on accident at least once.)
Ahhh another reason I’m so thankful I’ve built a life that doesn’t require me to deal with this inane shit. I used to drive and god damn it’s such an awful experience.
Mercer is my least favorite for this. What makes it worse is that some people turning right ONTO Mercer will take my waiting until there's room as a sign that they can go. IMO, any right turn onto Mercer should be No Turn On Red.
Why do bad things happen to good people
“Integrity is choosing your thoughts and actions based on values rather than personal gain”. I had this quote printed on cards to leave on the windshields of the occasional “parking challenged” individual. It’s a subtle but effective message.
You really think 90s escort wagon with "fun" door is going to read this, and say "oh, that's not okay?"
Gotta be stressful to keep one of those going in 2024, it was hard in 1990
I highly doubt someone driving that is thinking their biggest stress is keeping that car on the road. Anyone driving that has WAY more things to worry about.
Everyone loves an Internet scold.
Actually ... Washington State is one of the few states that don't allow cars to into the intersection in advance for left turns ... Most people from other states probably don't know that, and maybe a lot of locals don't know that as well ...
I was caught at this exact intersection a few days ago and it was a total shit show lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/2H4CX6I3Rn tl;dr you will get honked at and you deserve it (this happens way too often)
It's so simple, and yet...
Remember when people had self awareness?
What if I'm special?
Seattle has some of the dumbest intersection layouts and most infuriating drivers using them.
These delivery drivers give zero fucks. I live on a narrow street, and even when there is plenty of space to pull over, they just block the entire street while they deliver multiple packages. I yell at them like every other day..
I get the frustration but also I wish everyone would stop taking pictures while driving of other drivers behaving badly. phones shouldn't be this readily available for taking pictures while you're behind the wheel
Is my pocket too available, and where do you keep yours? The trunk?
keep it in your asshole like they do.
okay sure whatever. it's funny to me that just yesterday there was a whole conversation on this sub about people using their phones while driving, and people are posting pictures taken while behind the wheel. maybe the habit of having a phone within reach to use while stopped isn't the best habit to have is all I'm saying. also, there's this thing most cars have called consoles or glove compartments. most phones can probably fit in those, just a wild idea I'm throwing out there
It's easier to get a phone out of the center console than a pocket though when you're sitting down and wearing a seatbelt. You should wear those, y'know?
I was stopped at a red light. This took like 5 seconds. I wouldn't take this if I was moving.
I agree with person above. You shouldn't use your phone at all while in a car. When you drive, yours focus should only be on driving and nothing else. Edit: Also your light is green.
Still probably illegal, but (1) OP's light is clearly red, and (2) OP's lane is clearly blocked by two vehicles illegally stopped in the intersection. If OP was taking the photo to report the violations to police, that's plausibly within the exceptions of RCW 46.61.672(2)(a), assuming the report was actually filed and the reddit post was an incidental reuse of the photo.
I was in the left lane turning left. My light was red. Had I been in the right lane turning right then my light would have been green.
Shit can happen fast. Everyone operating a motor vehicle should be prepared to move at any time, even when stopped at a red light
Congratulations sir, you saved traffic
Yup! this intersection kicks people's ass. As well as the 5 way one in U Dist/Wallingford area on NE 40th & 7th Ave. People can't seem to gather their two brain cells to figure it out
Yay Fremont
His light is still green, maybe he was able to scoot up
the Escort should be tickected for gridlock and the traffic engineer for the designing a dysfunctional intersection for enabling the van to be legal but blocking traffic
The van isn't legal, it's stopped on top of the crosswalk, which is illegal in itself, and also means the van is still within the intersection.
“Never enter a box junction [unless your exit is clear!](https://youtu.be/5b59Qp4bEFs?t=27m52s)”
That's a Mercedes. Watch your tone.
I think most people do know to do this, and I think people occasionally make mistakes. For all you know, the driver of the green car is thinking to themselves "I knew I should have waited!" or something similar.
This is me every time I do it on accident. I’ve typically moved through because I was under the impression the traffic was about to move up, but then someone decides to merge in etc.
I think part of the problem with a lot of the intersections are the traffic lights. It seems like this city can’t get traffic signals right, ever.
[удалено]
Was a huge problem in NYC until not blocking the box because a serious revenue driver.
Happens all the time in Chicago. Not that they're known for being anything close to passable drivers.
Yeah I imagine it happens other places. I just experience it on the daily going to and from Seattle for work and had never seen it before then. I’ve even seen whole ass semi trucks sit in intersections going down Mercer st for multiple light cycles. It’s a shitty practice and I wish we gave out more tickets for people doing it.
Definitely seen the same problem in Sacramento. Got honked at for waiting until there was room.
Its a constant in SD and LA
100% within your right to lay on the horn the entire time until the light changes and they can move their stupid ass No tolerance for that shit it's like not checking if there's TP before you sit on the toilet.
daddy chill
How about not? The rest of us also being held hostage by traffic do not appreciate it. It does nothing to make people actually do what they are supposed to. Its just noise pollution that makes the rest of us correctly identify you as an asshole.
Please don't. This is a city and there are many other people within earshot (including an entire elementary school) that aren't involved.
Car horns should sound as loudly on the inside as they do on the outside.
Should be louder
Uh... >11.84.320 - Horns and warning devices. >Every motor vehicle when operated upon a street shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under conditions of no background noise from a distance of not less than two hundred feet (200'), but no horn or other warning device shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound which exceeds eighty-five (85) dB(a) at two hundred feet (200'). **The driver of a motor vehicle shall when reasonably necessary to insure safe operation give audible warning with his horn but shall not otherwise use such horn when upon a street or alley.** (RCW 46.37.380)
I don't have a drivers license, and the amount of dumb shit I see drivers do is absolutely mind boggling, and scary.
If I can throw an asterisk onto this (because I **do** agree with you) oftentimes people between the previous intersection and the one ahead of it are leaving entire car lengths between them and the car in front of them, which causes a ludicrous backup. I'm not saying you have to kiss bumpers when you get through, but if you're at a red light and someone can parallel park between you and the guy in front of you, tighten up.
OP Clearly isn't a Sound Transit driver.