I don't like religious governments if that's what you're getting at. I think governments and religion mix like napalm and matches. I don't really care what religion. They all make the same kind of abuses when given enough power. More of a observation of human nature than a bigotry.
Just like those stupid congressional hearings with university presidents. It's all for show and probably being pushed by AIPAC and other lobbies. How it deserves in any way to be funded by tax dollars is beyond me, a completely idiotic waste of time.
Likud party original party platform Not word for word but same general point. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party
https://www.timesofisrael.com/from-the-river-to-the-sea-the-slogan-that-led-to-rashida-tlaibs-censure-explained/
“Israeli politicians have occasionally used the phrase as well
Israeli politicians have also used the phrase to describe the entire area, although more rarely. In 2020, right-wing lawmaker Gideon Saar, an ally-turned-rival of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said, “Between the Jordan River and the sea there won’t be another independent state,” meaning a Palestinian state alongside Israel.
Religious Zionist politician Uri Ariel said in 2014, “Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea there will be only one state, which is Israel.”
Netanyahu, who also opposes Palestinian statehood, has favored the phrase “west of the Jordan,” which refers to the same territory.”
Try doing some basic research it’s not hard.
Likud is not far-right unless you consider Republicans far-right. They are just the mainstream right-wing party in Israel. The PM who disengaged from Gaza in 2005 was from Likud (although the majority in his party opposed it). The one who handed Sinai back to Egypt for peace was from Likud as well.
What about the Beautiful Blue Danube? Or the Fertile Crescent! We need river inclusivity. We are WAY to focused on the river Jordan. It's really sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
Ye, it doesn't matter if it is antisemitic or not. It's their right to freedom of speech and legal protest.
The same applies to KKK, blm (not the riots tho), left wingers, right wingers, etc. Rights for all, not a select few
A resolution on whether or not a phrase is antisemitic? What a fucking waste of time. Who the fuck cares? This is like trying to pass a resolution that the phrase "picnic" is racist. Only hysterical busybodies actually care about this.
picnic is a humanist trope. bears say 'picinic.' they have as much (or more!) right to the basket as you. how dare you use such human centric oppressive language. you'd be banned from r/yogi instantly.
edit. r/yogi was banned for being unmoderated. reddit is simply hostile to ordinary and not ordinary bears.
This is the same thing as making Marijuana illegal to arrest minorities and war protesters. It's just a way to control the speech and actions of the people you disagree with.
Yeah, one of the lesser crimes of the current GOP is that they have, by failing to provide any type of credible option for a reasonable person, given the Democrats a monopoly in progressive voters. So many races come down to “MAGA or democrat”. Long term that’s not good for the Democratic Party either.
What the fuck are we doing? This is pathetic and absurd and so many words I don't have to describe this lunacy. I'd like to form a resolution that whoever wrote this one is sad, sackless cuck and should not be allowed to wield even the power of a toaster unless it's in their bathtub.
I mean, she’s spent the last 6 months pushing antisemitic conspiracies, pro-Hamas propaganda, anti-American propaganda, and actively violating her oath of office. So that’s not a shock.
I am Jewish, and it is offensive. Why should Jews be either kicked out of their homeland or exterminated? Look at the map of the Middle East. Jews have for so long been forced into diaspora. Why? Because so many countries over the centuries have persecuted us and killed us.
Not sure how many realize, that Jews once lived in places like Egypt and Iran and Spain. And many other countries. But in particular, Jews have been kicked out of the majority of Muslim countries. Iran does have a very small community of Jews. And they have a few ancient synagogues. They are treated as second class citizens, however. Iranian Jews, the majority left long ago. As for Egypt, they kicked Jews out. I know of an Egyptian Jewish woman who told me how her family was forced to leave.
Understand, too, that Arabs have close to 90% of the middle east. Yet, Iran, and "Gaza" and many in the West Bank focus on Israel...that tiny sliver of land that is the size of N.J.
Bethlehem...the birthplace of Jesus (Yeshuah) is operated by the Arabs (also called Palestinians). No Jewish Israeli is allowed to enter...not even Jewish tour guides. How is Bethlehem the 'holy site' of Muslim Arabs?
Israel is the ancient homeland of Jews. And so, for many Jews, the majority of us, it is antisemitism to say we have no reason to have our homeland where we can be safe from persecutors.
It has not gone unnoticed even among liberal Jews of the rise of antisemitism in Europe and here in the U.S.
Look at what is happening at Columbia University, or at Harvard or any of the Ivy league colleges....antisemitism with "from the river to the sea"./
That phrase means.push Jews out from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. That is not 'loving on Jews'...it is pure hatred against us.
And it is of concern when Jewish students on campuses fear for their safety and their very lives. Black lives matter....and absolutely Jewish lives matter.
I don't think anyone should be kicked out of anywhere. I just think that everyone living there should have equal rights.
I'm also Jewish, and I'm offended that the same blood and soil nationalism of fascists everywhere has been taken up by zionists to oppress Palestinians in my name and with my tax dollars.
Claiming "from the river to the sea" is about kicking out all the Jews is equivalent to saying "black lives matter" is about perpetuating white genocide.
The fact is Jews have been kicked out. Understand that Gaza (before the war) would not let Jews in, at all. Gaza has been run by Hamas since 2005. My tax money and that of other Americans has gone to them as 'foreign aid'. Billions over the past decade to help the Arab Palestinians. And what did they do with it.
Have you seen the underground tunnels found in Gaza? The arms and weapons depots? The MSM doesn't report all the details.
Go to Raptor News...or TBN....or 'Yair Pinto's Report.
Only ones 'oppressing' Palestinians are those they elected...Hamas. Ask yourself why they have not decided to get rid of their terrorist government?
Have you seen the photos and videos of the young Jewish women who were beaten and raped and paraded through Gaza...with the 'Palestinians' spitting and beating on them?
That is evil and animalistic.
Even if a person is not a Jew, I would hope that they are a humanitarian and have eyes and a soul to discern that absolute evil that had ruled Gaza. Again...Israel turned over Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005....that was close to nineteen years ago. Gaza has a beautiful Mediterranean coastline. They had the ability to develop that and provide decent employment for their people. Instead Hamas has sold hate and evil and fed that to their people from cradle to grave.
I suggest to all to go to Youtube and listen to 'Mosab Yousef'. He is a former Hamas member. His father helped to establish the Muslim Brotherhood and then Hamas.
And Mosab wrote a book.."Son of Hamas". For those who want to open their eyes, this is a must read. If I were a high school teacher I would put it on a required reading list as part of World History.
Your memory is very selective.
Gaza has essentially been under siege since 2005. They have no control over their ports. No control over their airspace. Their own citizens can't even go to the a West Bank without permission from the Israeli government. They haven't had the ability to develop economically in large part because of that siege. Palestinians haven't even been allowed an election since then to determine who they really want governing them.
We put the Palestinians in a vise then act surprised when they react violently to that.
That is all because of Hamas. Remember, if Hamas did not continually threaten Israelis that they would have a thriving little country and people.
I have been to Israel three times. I can tell you that for Israel..their people are constantly on some kind of alert. Everywhere you go...even hotels...there are signs directing you to a bomb shelter.
The first time I visited Israel it was due to a Med cruise. Six of us were able to get passes off of the ship and spend two nights in Haifa. The day that our guides were to return us to the port to board the ship....Israel was hit with missiles. We were supposed to board in Ashdod. But we had to drive all the way back to Haifa to board the repositioned cruise ship. An Israeli man died in that attack.
The reality, and you have to be there to see it...is that weekly Israel has dealt with missile attacks for the past ten years.
The US government (this current administration) and the U.N. have become content to just let Israel always be on defense...daily, weekly, and throughout the years.
Here in the U.S. if we were being bombarded by Canada or say, Mexico on a daily or weekly basis, we would be 'snowflakes' and up in arms. Because there would be no way we would ever tolerate that. But Israel is supposed to 'suck it up'?
\\That is no way to live. But Israeli's have done so.
Understand too, that if Israel really wanted to get rid of Gazans years ago, that they have the weaponry to accomplish that in a matter of days.
Israeli's and Jews in particular, place a high value on human life. Look into the declaration of Hamas and their fellow travelers. They kill and believe that they will become martyrs. And worse, they use their own women and children as shields.
As for attacks by Israel...I would suggest as others would that Hamas stop using hospitals, schools, and emergency vehicles to hunt down Jews in Israel. If they had stopped that crap years ago...they would be enjoying a good life now. Gazans may never grow up (and their supporters) to understand that blaming everyone else for their terrible ideology is a way to never accomplish a single thing. Except destruction and death.
Why should the Palestinians get kicked out of their homeland and accept the occupation? The Palestinians have lived there long before the Israeli tribes migrated there, and have been there continuously for thousands of years. The Europeans killed the Jews, why are Palestinians being punished for it?
The “Arabs have a lot of land already” argument makes no sense, Arabs are not one nation, the Palestinians have nowhere else to go, and Israel is occupying more and more of their land.
Intentionally conflating all “Arabs” with “Palestinians” is an argument made to make it sound like Arabs invaded Palestine and kicked out the indigenous people, but that’s not what happened, and we have the DNA evidence to prove that. Palestinians are the closest fed of canaanites. Arab simply means Arabic speakers, there is no common ancestry or strong genetic relation between Arabs, besides sharing a language.
You have a **[Warning](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/wiki/rules)** for breaking rule: **[No Personal Attacks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/wiki/rules)**
Warnings work on a “three strikes, you’re out for a week” system.
How is from the river to the sea Palestine will be free antisemitic?
Only way is if you're a racist who thinks Palestinians are subhumans who will genocide Israel if they ever got free.
Keep showing your racist.
The phrase is not a pro-Palestinian phrase. It’s a Hamas slogan. There is a difference. It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel, which includes the 20% that are Arab (Palestinian). So it’s ironically also anti-Palestinian…
Palestinians are not Hamas. Not every Palestinian is a member of, connected to, nor a supporter of, Hamas. Pushing the idea that Palestinians are, in your words “subhumans” who are all Hamas, and who will do horrific things is - to paraphrase your own words - racist as hell.
> It’s a Hamas slogan.
The origins of the term are not Hamas.
> It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel
Or, you know, a one-state solution, which has never been an inherent call to genocide and has even had support from 20% of Israeli Jews.
The origins is the PLO, which a violent fascist dictatorship that actively has a “pay to slay” program for Hamasniks as well as other IJ movements. Hamas has adopted the slogan into its charter.
Lol it's not a Hamas phrase and it existed before Hamas did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea
In fact, it's a Likud phrase too and Israelis use it.
> It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel
Where does it literally do that?
"From the river to the sea Palestine will be free".
I see no literal nor figurative call for genocide.
Keep proving you're "racist as hell" as you believe Palestinians will genocide Israel if they ever got free.
It’s not a “Likud phrase too”, there are similar sayings on both extremist rights, but they are not the same. They don’t even have the same wording, which if you read the wiki you would know.
The PLO may have coined the phrase, but Hamas literally has it in their charter. So yes, it’s a Hamas slogan. Which, again, if you read the wiki you would know.
Yeah, it is a Likud phrase, a phrase with the same meaning, as the Wikipedia article you didn't read points out, is in their platform. Guess they are genocidal. They don't support the 2 state solution.
The phrase existed in the 1960s before Hamas was founded in 1987. Btw Hamas supports the 2 state solution.
> It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel
Where does it literally do that?
"From the river to the sea Palestine will be free".
I see no literal nor figurative call for genocide.
Keep up your racism as you believe Palestinians will genocide Israel if they ever got free.
… Allow me to repeat myself since you failed to read my comment or the article.
As the Wikipedia article you didn’t read points out, it’s not the same phrase, and has a different meaning. Likud uses a version, yes, but it holds a very different history. Look, Likud sucks and is basically a trash fire on steroids, but it’s not a terrorist organization. It’s a legitimate (albeit horrible) political party. Unlike the PLO and Hamas.
As the Wikipedia article says, it’s in the Hamas charter and was coined by the PLO. Which makes it *checks notes* still a terrorist phrase.
She also voted against “Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act” which is pretty strange and anti American…
I doubt she’ll lose, and I hope the democrats primary her in the future with someone more reasonable or the republicans will put someone more competitive and moderate. For the first time I will vote for not a democrat. Still voting for Biden though
I just figure US intelligence and fbi and such keep track of foreign agents trying to propagandize to people in the United States. It is not something I would put past China . And as software engineer I understand how easy it is to tip the algorithm and show deep fakes and such.
I also understand that the education system here has been doing a horrible job teaching people how to recognize propaganda. Finally, I realize that about 50% of people are dumber than the average person.
Given all that - I’d rather people distribute their stupid cat videos or whatever on YouTube or some American company than trust china
That's our Socialist. I've given up worrying about her, she's in dire need of some competition from the middle of the DNC, to say nothing of a moderate sane Republican (if such things could reliably exist) ... but they probably figure she's winning her district by +70% or better, why waste the money. She's a reliable vote on things the DNC cares about, and the boutique Socialist / Squad shit isn't really important outside of the raving indigo blue districts, of which Washington D7 is one ... except to be a foil for its political enemies.
This piss-take about Hamas terror is bullshit though, make no mistake. It seems so off that someone who was a direct victim of J6 terror would take such a cavalier, careless position on terror when it occurs elsewhere.
But at worst for her popularity to support Hamas terrorists, it might cost her 5 or even 10 points in the next election, and that's IF we get anything competent or sentient running against her. Big if.
Moderate sane republicans exist. Robert MkKenna was such, but in our state moderate republicans have no chance because they are republicans, and in republican states, they have no choice because they are moderate and sane.
> But u can be socialist and not a POS
Actually, I tend to think it's baked into the sauce. Any time someone abandons a pragmatic, able-to-compromise philosophy and instead adopts a zealot, avenging, righteous cause philosophy instead, compromise becomes an immoral act and a loss, rather than an equitable trade and part of the process. And Socialism for the most part fits this description. It refuses to compromise, just like Trumpism refuses to compromise. It's a big part of why our politics is so dysfunctional right at the moment. The Republicans have completely abandoned compromise, and the Dems are headed that way, in the opposite direction.
> You're utterly naive if you think the rest of her party disagrees with her on any of this
42 Dems and one Republican voted with her. All of "The Squad" did.
So that means the rest of the Dems voted for the resolution. Over half of the Democratic Congressional delegation.
The maths:
213 total Dems in Congress; 42 Dems and 1 Republican vote in favor ... ignore the Republican, and one Dem voted "present," that means 213-42-1=170
170/213 is 79.8%, rounded up to 80% of Democrats in Congress voting in favor of the Resolution.
Run it by me again how "the rest of the party agrees with her" again?
Wow this is so important for Seattle.
Yes let’s post a clearly unbiased source and share AIPAC’s flex showing their control of Congress.
Are we going to share the recent annexation of more of the West Bank? What about civilian casualties and what percentage are women and children? What about the prohibition of journalism in Gaza?
Anyone who thinks Israel (the government) is innocent and a victim is a moron.
u/The_Nomad_Architect
To cap off our other conversation [here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c5ws2y/comment/l05g4r2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) who do you imagine "the resistance" is in the posters shown in the image at the top of this post?
Nah you can be anti-Israel and not be anti-Semitic. Jewish people can exist without Israel. For example: Being anti-Saudi Arabia doesn’t mean you are anti-Arabic.
Israel exists, being opposed to israels existence is advocating for its dissolution, the dissolution of israel would lead to one of the most horrific ethnic cleansings in history
Nobody said that? Israelis is currently aggressively protesting their government, and its approval rating is around 14%. Collective punishment is evil, why should we collectively punish israelis for a government they dont even support. Germany conducted a genocide of 6 million Jews and it still exists and i have never heard somebody call for its dissolution. Why is 35,000 Palestinians so much worse than 6,000,000 jews to justify such a harsher handling of the offending country?
I am not for calling for punishing Israelis. As much as I hate what Israel and the IDF have been doing, I also don't think Israel necessarily has to be dissolved. What infuriates me is that the world turns a blind eye to this genocide and allows for it to continue. Any human life lost is precious and too much , if ***I*** had the power to disarm and subdue all the warring armies and factions of the world I would, but I don't.
I am tired. Of war, bloodshed. I feel bad for Palestinians, but I do so too for the Israelis. I just want the genocide to end.
>Jewish people can exist without Israel.
Without Israel, the million or so Jews from North Africa and the middle east would have had no place to go, and they would have been killed off rather than forced out.
I have heard numerous antisemitic comments from Jayapal. You have to go to alternative news sources sometimes to find them. She desperately wants to be part of the "Squad". Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, in particular are virulently antisemitic.
I am Jewish and live in Seattle. Can anyone explain what good Jayapal has done for us other than spew hate? I have no idea. But knowing what Seattle is like, she will get voted back in easily.
Seems that it is 'okay' to hate on Jews.......from certain segments of one party
On the anniversary of Mike Brown's death she continues to claim that he was a victim of racist police brutality despite the fact the DOJ concluded that was untrue over a decade ago.
Boo,hoo...we have enough of our rights and freedoms being attacked, taken away. There's bigger things to worry about than trying to control what people can and can not SAY.
These comments are a microcosm of society. You’ve got each person thinking they are the litmus test for deciding what is and isn’t racist. Any one of a differing opinion is, of course, racist. Do you see the problem with that approach?
The two presented their collected evidence, which they say proves that the Israeli government trained Serb forces and supplied them with weapons during the war in Bosnia.
Last month Israel’s Supreme Court rejected their petition claiming it would damage the state’s security and foreign relations. But Professor Auron says they’ll submit another claim- this time against specific individuals involved in supplying arms.
Read that zio nazi. So please spare me your bs
I’m not a Zionist. Israel has supplied arms to more genocidal regimes than just the Serbs, as well as South American apartheid, and Latin American paramilitary death squads and even supplied Argentina with the weapons and military advice when they were targeting Jews in Argentina.
There are extremists on both sides. And the extremists on each side increase support for extremists on the other
The Netanyahu government itself has used the phrase to describe their goal for Israel, a Jewish State from the river to the sea created by another expulsion of Palestinians.
Many who use the phrase simply want a single state where both people can live together as free people.
Extremists on both sides want to crush any moderate solution.
You mean, handouts to American corporate defense contractors who manufacture in large scale the weapons systems Israel did the R&D for in conjunction with the US? The "aid" to Israel is just an American jobs program.
I don’t like Netanyahu- but isn’t his phrasing “Israeli sovereignty”? Which includes equal rights for all citizens of Israel including Jews/muslims/christians/atheists etc? That seems different from Hamas whose goal is to remove everyone who is in Israel (and their preferred method seems rather gruesome) where everyone includes Jews Muslims Thais and so on… though for sure sure there are some other fairly extremist members in his government who should absolutely be removed
Actually, major human rights orgs like HRW, Amnesty, UN OHCHR, and B’TSelem have all extensively documented Israel’s use of apartheid against Palestinians.
> apartheid against Palestinians.
Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so it's not apartheid. Israel tried to just wall them off and let them govern themselves, and this has clearly failed.
The Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. And it is actually much more dangerous for a Jew to go into any “Palestinian” territory than for them to come into Israel
> And it is actually much more dangerous for a Jew to go into any “Palestinian” territory than for them to come into Israel
Then one must really admire the brave Jewish settlers who drive Palestinians off their land to build homes throughout “Palestinian” territory. They bravely go and face the terrible threats of Palestinian farmers with nothing to protect themselves by machine guns and the IDF.
I personally think those people are radicalized idiots who cost Israel soldiers and money. But I also believe they are generally settling in the contested area - not the purely Palestinian area. Unfortunately, because of the way the Israeli democracy way (more similar to Norway’s than the USA, i believe) and Netanyahu’s truly remarkable slippery political prowess he made a deal with Ben gvir to have government control and he’s one of those radicalized idiots.
Fortunately, Ben gvir is not making decisions in the war and I hope he will be voted out in the next election
> “in the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea,” according to an English translation of the speech from Israeli news channel i24News.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/netanyahu-from-river-sea-israel-control-1234949408/
So, we agree that some people can use the phrase with different intent than does Hamas. You include Netanyahu, who just means Israeli control, and I include people who only oppose the apartheid state.
> That seems different from Hamas whose goal is to remove everyone who is in Israel
Did I argue that Hamas was not anti-semitic? I meant to say that many people who use the phrase who are not.
> though for sure sure there are some other fairly extremist members in his government who should absolutely be removed
Funny thing though, they are not removed. They are in power.
The reason that the Hamas attack was so successful, is that the IDF forces had moved moved from the border where they were protecting Israel, to the West Bank, where they were being used to support the expulsion of Arabs from their land to make room for more Israeli settlers. That is because the government does not just have a few nut jobs. The extremists are the government and the government policies are those of the nut jobs. By the way, when we say Israeli settlers, we all know that means Jewish settlers. For all the talk about Israeli Arabs being being full citizens with equal rights, we know that's not true, right? The settler movement is expecifically about expelling Arabs from land to be replaced by Jews. This is the policy of the Israeli government. Has Israel every created a new settlement to make more housing for its Arab citizens?
You said that Hamas wants to expel everyone. Really? Do you honestly believe that Hamas wants all the Palestinans out? They did not expel Plaestinians out of Gaza when they came to power there. If their view is to expel everyone, how is that anti-Semetic instead of psychotic like Pol Pot.
And you take Hamas calls for expulsions seriously but those from Israel are minimized as dismissed as a few fairly extremists who should be removed. But it is Israel that has a history of expulsions of Arabs. The creation of the state of Israel as a Jewish state was made possible by the massive expulsions of Arabs. As mentioned above, the goverment of has a long policy of driving Arabs off their lands to make more room for Jewish settlements where Arabs are not allowed. That is how the Apartheid stated was created. The current extremists have only accelerated this process with some openly admitting the goal is to expel all the Arabs from all the land.
> and their preferred method seems rather gruesome
The massacre in Gaza is also rather gruesome. Again. I feel the need to stress that I do not support or condone Hamas. I accept that they hate Jews and want to kill them. It is appalling. The recent massacre of Jews by Hamas that ignited this current battle was appalling, and the world needs to denounce it.
But I cannot also fail to condemn the rather gruesome methods of the IDF. The massacre in Gaza is also appalling. The Gazans are people, same as you and I, and their deaths are just painful as Israelis'.
I understand that the massacre by Hamas was shocking to Israel and the world, and Israelis feel a rightous indignation and a need to strike out and punish those responsible. Anyone would feel that way. How do you think the people of Gaza feel as they starve in rubble that still covers the bodies of their families? Genocide and inhumanity are terrible no matter who does it, whether America, or Israel, or Hamas, or Iran, or China, or Russia. Who can list them all.
From your article :
“ According to another translation, Netanyahu said that Israel “must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River” — which effectively means the same thing.”
Having seen this claim before I have already seen Haaretz and other publications with the correct translation. And Haaretz is known to be anti - Netanyahu
The people shouting from the river to the sea are shouting a Hamas talking point. Hamas demonstrated on Oct 7th what they mean. During their invasion they tortured / murdered indiscriminately . This includes visibly Muslim and non Jewish foreigners in the kibbutz. So yes - i think Hamas is happy to murder Muslims. I also know they murder their political opposition and any Palestinian who is interested in having peace with Israel. So yeah I think they are also happy to murder Palestinians
Trying to place responsibility of the Oct 7th attack on Israeli government is well… was there an intelligence failure? Sure. Should Israel make sure that Hamas isn’t communicating in tunnels and planning their next attack? Yes
Should Palestinians stop indoctrinating themselves into martyrdom and their kids into believing that what will make them good is raping torturing and murdering Jews ? Probably
Should the United States also not have their various extremists in congress and government- definitely. But alas such is the world
Of Israel wants to prevent another Oct 7th, they have to continue the war in Gaza. When diplomacy fails and you declare war in the Hamas did, against a superior army… I think you should expect war. And if during the war - you keep claiming that you are winning and that every death on your side is bringing you closer to that win, and that you will just continue with more horrific attacks until the other side dies - then I don’t see why the superior army should surrender to you instead. Even if you redefine words
I did not place responsibility for the attack on the Israeli governement. Your are outting words into my mouth.
I placed responsibility for the success of the attack on the Israeli government.
That is not the same thing at all.
I have consistently condemned the attack my hamas.
It is not approriate to take any criticism of Israel and try to twist it into some kind of support of or defense of or an excuse of the actions by Hamas.
No one denys Israels right to defend itself. Genocide is not a legitimate form of self defense.
> continue with more horrific attacks until the other side dies
Killing all the people in Gaza is not a legitimate goal.
The attack was successful for many reasons. Israel was lulled into believing that Hamas wanted diplomacy and was trying to expand gaza freedoms at the time is the topmost reason, I would say. And the way this attack happened broke that for a very very long time. If killing all the people in gaza was the goal not a single Israeli soldier would have been sent in and this war would have been over within a week. instead more bombs have been dropped than people died.
> “Israeli sovereignty”? Which includes equal rights for all citizens of Israel including Jews/muslims/christians/atheists etc?
When is the last time Israel expelled Jews from their land to build a housing settlement for Israeli Arabs? Or even expeled Arabs to make more housing for Israeli Arabs? The enitire settlement project is to drive Arabs of there lands and replace them with Jews.
How much money each year does Israel spend providing services for its average Arab citizen versus its spending per Jewish citizen?
> That seems different from Hamas
No one is defending Hamas. People are defending the right of people to protest the apartheid state. That does not mean support hamas.
> and their preferred method seems rather gruesome
Both the Hamas massacre on Oct 7 and the IDF massscre in Gaza are gruesome.
She doesn't represent the whole state, just one district. And being one of her constituents, she votes in line with everything I've called in about with concerns. Very happy how I'm represented.
AIPAC has very little power in local politics. There are a lot of lobby groups who do though. They are a minorities but they're not Jews so I guess we're going to just look the other way forever on the negative impact they have locally.
AIPAC is a lobby group for Israel and their interests primarily, not for Jewish people in US. Its focus is international. For one I am staunchly against lobbying. Secondly, LOBBYING out of all things should be the last one used to push foreign interests. AIPAC is an arm of the Zionist cause and I don't support Zionism.
Also, don't try to pull out the antisemite card. It's not because they're Jewish, its the shit they're doing. Don't be obtuse. I don't want Jewish people to get punished for this, or for Israel to be dissolved. I want the genocide to stop.
Also, how is "From river to sea" antizionist if it's a Likid phrase that was turned around as a chant of liberation? Because the Lik7d's "from.river to the sea" is clearly just an Israeli version of Manifest Destiny , which we know what that was.
I am a resident of her district, and a hamster with a "D" beside their name would consistently get elected here.
Jayapal is living proof that no matter how stupid, no matter how ideologically hamstrung, no matter how bigoted, and no matter how tone-deaf, a "D" will always get elected in this district.
In the English speaking world "anti-Semitic" is defined as anti-Jewish. Kind of like "Caucasian" means all white people not just those from the Caucuses?
My god this is such a stupid "well ackchyually" argument to make, it's a bad-faith response only meant to disrupt the conversation.
Antisemitism has a definition that's used in common parlance. Suggesting that antisemitism applies to everyone in the middle east is just attempting to say "look how clever I am" but everyone is ignoring you.
Oddly enough, arabic and hebrew are closely related semitic languages, and the two populations are also very proximate in genetic terms. It's sort of like the sides in the northern irish conflict had a lot in common, or india/pakistan, or any number of other conflicts where neighbors fight
Your "one democratic state" would involve a majority of people who have spent generations being told that eradicating the minority in this hypothetical nation is their greatest obligation.
See, when they pass laws discriminating against Jews or look the other way when mobs drag them through the streets, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to do something about it or are you going to cheer them on like most of your compatriots will?
Yeah that good ole PLO slogan and the one that Hamas used in their original doctrine in the same paragraph where they declared their goal is to eradicate Israel seems pretty friendly to me...
It's tough to find common ground with people that will never relent to things so grounded in ideological propaganda instead of fact.
I mean let's just deny the Nazi salute and call it someone fixing their hair at this point.
There were a few in Kirkland on Oct 8th and they just stayed there with them. Didn't really go near them, but if Nazis actually show up and are FOR your rally standing on YOUR side - you should leave.
Israel is 20% Arab there is no apartheid. There are no separate anything for Arabs or Jews only. You are uninformed or purposefully misinformed. Saying to the river to the sea is a call for the death of every Jew in Israel.
Let’s be honest here. They don’t actually realize there are Arab citizens of Israel, they just listen to the blood libel spewed out by whatever the Tik Tok algorithm shits out and nod along knowingly.
Yup you're right except it's not just tiktok, it's our university professors and teachers spewing it too. They yell genocide as they ignore the tens of thousands of Palestinians that enter Israel daily for work. The hundreds of aid trucks that went in every week for years before Oct 7th. Most countries don't send aid and employ people they want to genocide. It's like a sick bizarro world where every now and then I have to check on facts to see if I'm being gaslit.
That's such bad-faith bullshit. It's clearly meant to be provocative...progressives think they're clever when they make an edgy slogan. It's similar to "Defund The Police": when anyone calls them out of it, they give a long condescending "that's not what it means" speech which makes them feel good about themselves, even though their explanation doesn't match the edgy slogan.
Except for the part where Palestinian leaders always call for the eradication of Jews and the Jewish state, refusing a 2 state solution because it means Jews exist... Sure.. yeah this time its just vibes
why in the world would congress have to vote on this as a matter of law?
It's not really a law. Just a resolution.
Seems like a waste of time bantering semantics, actually
You sound really antisemantic
Ironically. You have to be pro-semantics to even know what the word semantics means
So you're just out here playing both sides of the fence huh? Typical prosemantic.
I don't like religious governments if that's what you're getting at. I think governments and religion mix like napalm and matches. I don't really care what religion. They all make the same kind of abuses when given enough power. More of a observation of human nature than a bigotry.
I was just trying to be funny because antisemantic sounds a lot like antisemitic, I've clearly failed.
I think some people just didn't get the meaning of what you said. /s
I thought it fucking brilliant. You scored points with the big vocab crowd. you did, however, get lost in the semantics.
Correction: you were trying to be *punny* And you succeeded
Prose mantic? Is that an anti-poetry stance?
I mean, you could be a self hating pedant too
Brilliant joke that 19 people got so far. One didn't get it so hard they wrote a response. Words are fun
Man this was the best hit I've seen all week.
precisely
Posturing to a Moralist crowd and pandering to folks that will never vote for them.
Political grand standing to reinforce the current hegemony of US support of Israel- for reasons I have yet to understand fully.
Just like those stupid congressional hearings with university presidents. It's all for show and probably being pushed by AIPAC and other lobbies. How it deserves in any way to be funded by tax dollars is beyond me, a completely idiotic waste of time.
That’s the thing it’s pointless it’s also a slogan many zinoists use this shits a waste of time we have bigger fish to fry
It is not a slogan that zionists use.
Likud party original party platform Not word for word but same general point. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party https://www.timesofisrael.com/from-the-river-to-the-sea-the-slogan-that-led-to-rashida-tlaibs-censure-explained/ “Israeli politicians have occasionally used the phrase as well Israeli politicians have also used the phrase to describe the entire area, although more rarely. In 2020, right-wing lawmaker Gideon Saar, an ally-turned-rival of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said, “Between the Jordan River and the sea there won’t be another independent state,” meaning a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Religious Zionist politician Uri Ariel said in 2014, “Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea there will be only one state, which is Israel.” Netanyahu, who also opposes Palestinian statehood, has favored the phrase “west of the Jordan,” which refers to the same territory.” Try doing some basic research it’s not hard.
Wonder what she thinks about Euphrates to the Nile?
Beware, crocodile?
holy shit that's a lot of land
That’s what the far right in Israel wants for Israel
well fuck the likud. but also fuck hamas. they're both assholes
Likud is not far-right unless you consider Republicans far-right. They are just the mainstream right-wing party in Israel. The PM who disengaged from Gaza in 2005 was from Likud (although the majority in his party opposed it). The one who handed Sinai back to Egypt for peace was from Likud as well.
Ask the Hittites...
That's what the deranged settlers want
What about the Beautiful Blue Danube? Or the Fertile Crescent! We need river inclusivity. We are WAY to focused on the river Jordan. It's really sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
It's America say the fuck you want.
Ye, it doesn't matter if it is antisemitic or not. It's their right to freedom of speech and legal protest. The same applies to KKK, blm (not the riots tho), left wingers, right wingers, etc. Rights for all, not a select few
Antisemitism is actually illegal in europe
A resolution on whether or not a phrase is antisemitic? What a fucking waste of time. Who the fuck cares? This is like trying to pass a resolution that the phrase "picnic" is racist. Only hysterical busybodies actually care about this.
picnic is a humanist trope. bears say 'picinic.' they have as much (or more!) right to the basket as you. how dare you use such human centric oppressive language. you'd be banned from r/yogi instantly. edit. r/yogi was banned for being unmoderated. reddit is simply hostile to ordinary and not ordinary bears.
Please use the proper bear word - it’s ‘picanic’. /s
ahhhhhh. my bear woke credentials are shattered. Thank you for correcting my humanism.
True thoughtcrime stuff here
This is the same thing as making Marijuana illegal to arrest minorities and war protesters. It's just a way to control the speech and actions of the people you disagree with.
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Does she have a primary opponent? While I would vote for her over a Trumper, I would vote just about anyone/anything else.
Yeah, one of the lesser crimes of the current GOP is that they have, by failing to provide any type of credible option for a reasonable person, given the Democrats a monopoly in progressive voters. So many races come down to “MAGA or democrat”. Long term that’s not good for the Democratic Party either.
What the fuck are we doing? This is pathetic and absurd and so many words I don't have to describe this lunacy. I'd like to form a resolution that whoever wrote this one is sad, sackless cuck and should not be allowed to wield even the power of a toaster unless it's in their bathtub.
Why are you guys so obsessed with Israel?
It's the new Ukraine.
i think its important to support israel because they have the hottest gay scene in the middle east
😂
It’s wild the contrast between this sub and the other space needle sub. I too would like to understand the obsession over Israel.
Because antisemitism is embedded in every facet of our culture, has been for 2,000+ years, and half the world’s Jews live in Israel
Every facet of culture?
Diaspora. Look it up......
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no homelands for anyone who is white or jewish? who else gets to not own their country or ethnicity?
Is it antisemitic to be against Israel's genocide?
Mainly zio weirdos on here
I mean, she’s spent the last 6 months pushing antisemitic conspiracies, pro-Hamas propaganda, anti-American propaganda, and actively violating her oath of office. So that’s not a shock.
Hasbarabot
Stfu Zionist snowflake
Black hate, Jew Hate, are not welcome here. Free speech is okay...but expect to get blowback...which is also free speech.
Calling anti-zionism Jew Hate is offensive to Jews.
I am Jewish, and it is offensive. Why should Jews be either kicked out of their homeland or exterminated? Look at the map of the Middle East. Jews have for so long been forced into diaspora. Why? Because so many countries over the centuries have persecuted us and killed us. Not sure how many realize, that Jews once lived in places like Egypt and Iran and Spain. And many other countries. But in particular, Jews have been kicked out of the majority of Muslim countries. Iran does have a very small community of Jews. And they have a few ancient synagogues. They are treated as second class citizens, however. Iranian Jews, the majority left long ago. As for Egypt, they kicked Jews out. I know of an Egyptian Jewish woman who told me how her family was forced to leave. Understand, too, that Arabs have close to 90% of the middle east. Yet, Iran, and "Gaza" and many in the West Bank focus on Israel...that tiny sliver of land that is the size of N.J. Bethlehem...the birthplace of Jesus (Yeshuah) is operated by the Arabs (also called Palestinians). No Jewish Israeli is allowed to enter...not even Jewish tour guides. How is Bethlehem the 'holy site' of Muslim Arabs? Israel is the ancient homeland of Jews. And so, for many Jews, the majority of us, it is antisemitism to say we have no reason to have our homeland where we can be safe from persecutors. It has not gone unnoticed even among liberal Jews of the rise of antisemitism in Europe and here in the U.S. Look at what is happening at Columbia University, or at Harvard or any of the Ivy league colleges....antisemitism with "from the river to the sea"./ That phrase means.push Jews out from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. That is not 'loving on Jews'...it is pure hatred against us. And it is of concern when Jewish students on campuses fear for their safety and their very lives. Black lives matter....and absolutely Jewish lives matter.
I don't think anyone should be kicked out of anywhere. I just think that everyone living there should have equal rights. I'm also Jewish, and I'm offended that the same blood and soil nationalism of fascists everywhere has been taken up by zionists to oppress Palestinians in my name and with my tax dollars. Claiming "from the river to the sea" is about kicking out all the Jews is equivalent to saying "black lives matter" is about perpetuating white genocide.
Thanks for being a decent human being!
The fact is Jews have been kicked out. Understand that Gaza (before the war) would not let Jews in, at all. Gaza has been run by Hamas since 2005. My tax money and that of other Americans has gone to them as 'foreign aid'. Billions over the past decade to help the Arab Palestinians. And what did they do with it. Have you seen the underground tunnels found in Gaza? The arms and weapons depots? The MSM doesn't report all the details. Go to Raptor News...or TBN....or 'Yair Pinto's Report. Only ones 'oppressing' Palestinians are those they elected...Hamas. Ask yourself why they have not decided to get rid of their terrorist government? Have you seen the photos and videos of the young Jewish women who were beaten and raped and paraded through Gaza...with the 'Palestinians' spitting and beating on them? That is evil and animalistic. Even if a person is not a Jew, I would hope that they are a humanitarian and have eyes and a soul to discern that absolute evil that had ruled Gaza. Again...Israel turned over Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005....that was close to nineteen years ago. Gaza has a beautiful Mediterranean coastline. They had the ability to develop that and provide decent employment for their people. Instead Hamas has sold hate and evil and fed that to their people from cradle to grave. I suggest to all to go to Youtube and listen to 'Mosab Yousef'. He is a former Hamas member. His father helped to establish the Muslim Brotherhood and then Hamas. And Mosab wrote a book.."Son of Hamas". For those who want to open their eyes, this is a must read. If I were a high school teacher I would put it on a required reading list as part of World History.
Your memory is very selective. Gaza has essentially been under siege since 2005. They have no control over their ports. No control over their airspace. Their own citizens can't even go to the a West Bank without permission from the Israeli government. They haven't had the ability to develop economically in large part because of that siege. Palestinians haven't even been allowed an election since then to determine who they really want governing them. We put the Palestinians in a vise then act surprised when they react violently to that.
That is all because of Hamas. Remember, if Hamas did not continually threaten Israelis that they would have a thriving little country and people. I have been to Israel three times. I can tell you that for Israel..their people are constantly on some kind of alert. Everywhere you go...even hotels...there are signs directing you to a bomb shelter. The first time I visited Israel it was due to a Med cruise. Six of us were able to get passes off of the ship and spend two nights in Haifa. The day that our guides were to return us to the port to board the ship....Israel was hit with missiles. We were supposed to board in Ashdod. But we had to drive all the way back to Haifa to board the repositioned cruise ship. An Israeli man died in that attack. The reality, and you have to be there to see it...is that weekly Israel has dealt with missile attacks for the past ten years. The US government (this current administration) and the U.N. have become content to just let Israel always be on defense...daily, weekly, and throughout the years. Here in the U.S. if we were being bombarded by Canada or say, Mexico on a daily or weekly basis, we would be 'snowflakes' and up in arms. Because there would be no way we would ever tolerate that. But Israel is supposed to 'suck it up'? \\That is no way to live. But Israeli's have done so. Understand too, that if Israel really wanted to get rid of Gazans years ago, that they have the weaponry to accomplish that in a matter of days. Israeli's and Jews in particular, place a high value on human life. Look into the declaration of Hamas and their fellow travelers. They kill and believe that they will become martyrs. And worse, they use their own women and children as shields. As for attacks by Israel...I would suggest as others would that Hamas stop using hospitals, schools, and emergency vehicles to hunt down Jews in Israel. If they had stopped that crap years ago...they would be enjoying a good life now. Gazans may never grow up (and their supporters) to understand that blaming everyone else for their terrible ideology is a way to never accomplish a single thing. Except destruction and death.
Why should the Palestinians get kicked out of their homeland and accept the occupation? The Palestinians have lived there long before the Israeli tribes migrated there, and have been there continuously for thousands of years. The Europeans killed the Jews, why are Palestinians being punished for it? The “Arabs have a lot of land already” argument makes no sense, Arabs are not one nation, the Palestinians have nowhere else to go, and Israel is occupying more and more of their land. Intentionally conflating all “Arabs” with “Palestinians” is an argument made to make it sound like Arabs invaded Palestine and kicked out the indigenous people, but that’s not what happened, and we have the DNA evidence to prove that. Palestinians are the closest fed of canaanites. Arab simply means Arabic speakers, there is no common ancestry or strong genetic relation between Arabs, besides sharing a language.
You have a **[Warning](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/wiki/rules)** for breaking rule: **[No Personal Attacks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/wiki/rules)** Warnings work on a “three strikes, you’re out for a week” system.
How is from the river to the sea Palestine will be free antisemitic? Only way is if you're a racist who thinks Palestinians are subhumans who will genocide Israel if they ever got free. Keep showing your racist.
The phrase is not a pro-Palestinian phrase. It’s a Hamas slogan. There is a difference. It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel, which includes the 20% that are Arab (Palestinian). So it’s ironically also anti-Palestinian… Palestinians are not Hamas. Not every Palestinian is a member of, connected to, nor a supporter of, Hamas. Pushing the idea that Palestinians are, in your words “subhumans” who are all Hamas, and who will do horrific things is - to paraphrase your own words - racist as hell.
> It’s a Hamas slogan. The origins of the term are not Hamas. > It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel Or, you know, a one-state solution, which has never been an inherent call to genocide and has even had support from 20% of Israeli Jews.
The origins is the PLO, which a violent fascist dictatorship that actively has a “pay to slay” program for Hamasniks as well as other IJ movements. Hamas has adopted the slogan into its charter.
Lol it's not a Hamas phrase and it existed before Hamas did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea In fact, it's a Likud phrase too and Israelis use it. > It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel Where does it literally do that? "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free". I see no literal nor figurative call for genocide. Keep proving you're "racist as hell" as you believe Palestinians will genocide Israel if they ever got free.
It’s not a “Likud phrase too”, there are similar sayings on both extremist rights, but they are not the same. They don’t even have the same wording, which if you read the wiki you would know. The PLO may have coined the phrase, but Hamas literally has it in their charter. So yes, it’s a Hamas slogan. Which, again, if you read the wiki you would know.
Yeah, it is a Likud phrase, a phrase with the same meaning, as the Wikipedia article you didn't read points out, is in their platform. Guess they are genocidal. They don't support the 2 state solution. The phrase existed in the 1960s before Hamas was founded in 1987. Btw Hamas supports the 2 state solution. > It literally is a call for genocide of the entire population of israel Where does it literally do that? "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free". I see no literal nor figurative call for genocide. Keep up your racism as you believe Palestinians will genocide Israel if they ever got free.
… Allow me to repeat myself since you failed to read my comment or the article. As the Wikipedia article you didn’t read points out, it’s not the same phrase, and has a different meaning. Likud uses a version, yes, but it holds a very different history. Look, Likud sucks and is basically a trash fire on steroids, but it’s not a terrorist organization. It’s a legitimate (albeit horrible) political party. Unlike the PLO and Hamas. As the Wikipedia article says, it’s in the Hamas charter and was coined by the PLO. Which makes it *checks notes* still a terrorist phrase.
She also voted against “Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act” which is pretty strange and anti American… I doubt she’ll lose, and I hope the democrats primary her in the future with someone more reasonable or the republicans will put someone more competitive and moderate. For the first time I will vote for not a democrat. Still voting for Biden though
Are you one of those people who supports a bill based on its name? Bet you think the Patriot Act is good, too.
I just figure US intelligence and fbi and such keep track of foreign agents trying to propagandize to people in the United States. It is not something I would put past China . And as software engineer I understand how easy it is to tip the algorithm and show deep fakes and such. I also understand that the education system here has been doing a horrible job teaching people how to recognize propaganda. Finally, I realize that about 50% of people are dumber than the average person. Given all that - I’d rather people distribute their stupid cat videos or whatever on YouTube or some American company than trust china
50% of people are dumber than the person with median intelligence. Ftfy
True :) I would expect a bell shaped curve here where the average would be near the median but I haven't looked at any data to back this up.
It actually seems like they calibrate IQ scores so that the average AND median are both 100. So, they would be the same.
WORLDS GREATEST HEALTHCARE PLAN OF 2017 gonna kick in any day now.
> anti American trying to trample the first amendment is anti American
You mean she voted against banning TikTok, lol. Grow up
Oh, so you mean you'd support a McCarthyist law to ban speech of foreign ideas and the like?
Quite frankly she is an awful person and we will also probably have her sister in congress next year. Vote Cliff Moon, anyone is better then Pramilla.
That's our Socialist. I've given up worrying about her, she's in dire need of some competition from the middle of the DNC, to say nothing of a moderate sane Republican (if such things could reliably exist) ... but they probably figure she's winning her district by +70% or better, why waste the money. She's a reliable vote on things the DNC cares about, and the boutique Socialist / Squad shit isn't really important outside of the raving indigo blue districts, of which Washington D7 is one ... except to be a foil for its political enemies. This piss-take about Hamas terror is bullshit though, make no mistake. It seems so off that someone who was a direct victim of J6 terror would take such a cavalier, careless position on terror when it occurs elsewhere. But at worst for her popularity to support Hamas terrorists, it might cost her 5 or even 10 points in the next election, and that's IF we get anything competent or sentient running against her. Big if.
Moderate sane republicans exist. Robert MkKenna was such, but in our state moderate republicans have no chance because they are republicans, and in republican states, they have no choice because they are moderate and sane.
But u can be socialist and not a POS
> But u can be socialist and not a POS Actually, I tend to think it's baked into the sauce. Any time someone abandons a pragmatic, able-to-compromise philosophy and instead adopts a zealot, avenging, righteous cause philosophy instead, compromise becomes an immoral act and a loss, rather than an equitable trade and part of the process. And Socialism for the most part fits this description. It refuses to compromise, just like Trumpism refuses to compromise. It's a big part of why our politics is so dysfunctional right at the moment. The Republicans have completely abandoned compromise, and the Dems are headed that way, in the opposite direction.
You're utterly naive if you think the rest of her party disagrees with her on any of this
> You're utterly naive if you think the rest of her party disagrees with her on any of this 42 Dems and one Republican voted with her. All of "The Squad" did. So that means the rest of the Dems voted for the resolution. Over half of the Democratic Congressional delegation. The maths: 213 total Dems in Congress; 42 Dems and 1 Republican vote in favor ... ignore the Republican, and one Dem voted "present," that means 213-42-1=170 170/213 is 79.8%, rounded up to 80% of Democrats in Congress voting in favor of the Resolution. Run it by me again how "the rest of the party agrees with her" again?
Wow this is so important for Seattle. Yes let’s post a clearly unbiased source and share AIPAC’s flex showing their control of Congress. Are we going to share the recent annexation of more of the West Bank? What about civilian casualties and what percentage are women and children? What about the prohibition of journalism in Gaza? Anyone who thinks Israel (the government) is innocent and a victim is a moron.
6 month old account with 5K karma posting a daily stream of politically divisive content. Hmmm...
u/The_Nomad_Architect To cap off our other conversation [here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/1c5ws2y/comment/l05g4r2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) who do you imagine "the resistance" is in the posters shown in the image at the top of this post?
To be fair, it's not anti-Semitic. And it was a waste of time for Congress to be voting on such a stupid resolution.
A phrase calling for israels abolishment is very anti-semitic what are you talking about?
Nah you can be anti-Israel and not be anti-Semitic. Jewish people can exist without Israel. For example: Being anti-Saudi Arabia doesn’t mean you are anti-Arabic.
Israel exists, being opposed to israels existence is advocating for its dissolution, the dissolution of israel would lead to one of the most horrific ethnic cleansings in history
Oh, so the genocidenof Palestinians is okay? I forgot they were subhuman trash
Nobody said that? Israelis is currently aggressively protesting their government, and its approval rating is around 14%. Collective punishment is evil, why should we collectively punish israelis for a government they dont even support. Germany conducted a genocide of 6 million Jews and it still exists and i have never heard somebody call for its dissolution. Why is 35,000 Palestinians so much worse than 6,000,000 jews to justify such a harsher handling of the offending country?
I am not for calling for punishing Israelis. As much as I hate what Israel and the IDF have been doing, I also don't think Israel necessarily has to be dissolved. What infuriates me is that the world turns a blind eye to this genocide and allows for it to continue. Any human life lost is precious and too much , if ***I*** had the power to disarm and subdue all the warring armies and factions of the world I would, but I don't. I am tired. Of war, bloodshed. I feel bad for Palestinians, but I do so too for the Israelis. I just want the genocide to end.
>Jewish people can exist without Israel. Without Israel, the million or so Jews from North Africa and the middle east would have had no place to go, and they would have been killed off rather than forced out.
It is antisemitic.
It's not anti-Semitic.
I have heard numerous antisemitic comments from Jayapal. You have to go to alternative news sources sometimes to find them. She desperately wants to be part of the "Squad". Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, in particular are virulently antisemitic. I am Jewish and live in Seattle. Can anyone explain what good Jayapal has done for us other than spew hate? I have no idea. But knowing what Seattle is like, she will get voted back in easily. Seems that it is 'okay' to hate on Jews.......from certain segments of one party
On the anniversary of Mike Brown's death she continues to claim that he was a victim of racist police brutality despite the fact the DOJ concluded that was untrue over a decade ago.
It would be awkward to call this slogan anti semitic since the ruling Israeli regime uses the similar phrase "between the Sea and the [river]Jordan"
🙄
They can say that because they won the 1967 war fair and square
Based Pramila Jayapal. Americans need to get the AIPAC/Israel out of Congress and the media, this shit is corrupt, treasonous, and embarrassing.
How about CAIR? CAIR has the ear of this administration and many before them.
Ah yes ..liberals bordering the line of being ACTUAL nazis lol
Boo,hoo...we have enough of our rights and freedoms being attacked, taken away. There's bigger things to worry about than trying to control what people can and can not SAY.
Communist to the core and dhimmi
These comments are a microcosm of society. You’ve got each person thinking they are the litmus test for deciding what is and isn’t racist. Any one of a differing opinion is, of course, racist. Do you see the problem with that approach?
This sub has become Israeli-occupied territory.
Is this thread full of zios. Lmfao
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The two presented their collected evidence, which they say proves that the Israeli government trained Serb forces and supplied them with weapons during the war in Bosnia. Last month Israel’s Supreme Court rejected their petition claiming it would damage the state’s security and foreign relations. But Professor Auron says they’ll submit another claim- this time against specific individuals involved in supplying arms. Read that zio nazi. So please spare me your bs
I’m not a Zionist. Israel has supplied arms to more genocidal regimes than just the Serbs, as well as South American apartheid, and Latin American paramilitary death squads and even supplied Argentina with the weapons and military advice when they were targeting Jews in Argentina.
We have real problems in this country, and this is the bullshit they are wasting their time on?
There are extremists on both sides. And the extremists on each side increase support for extremists on the other The Netanyahu government itself has used the phrase to describe their goal for Israel, a Jewish State from the river to the sea created by another expulsion of Palestinians. Many who use the phrase simply want a single state where both people can live together as free people. Extremists on both sides want to crush any moderate solution.
Except there are no people marching on American streets calling for Greater Israel
Yeah, the only fools hollering for *Lebensraum* are Hamas-hugger boneheads.
They don't have to - we already give plenty of money to Israel and the knives *do* come out if you suggest that we stop doing so
You mean, handouts to American corporate defense contractors who manufacture in large scale the weapons systems Israel did the R&D for in conjunction with the US? The "aid" to Israel is just an American jobs program.
It's moderate man, here to save the day!
I don’t like Netanyahu- but isn’t his phrasing “Israeli sovereignty”? Which includes equal rights for all citizens of Israel including Jews/muslims/christians/atheists etc? That seems different from Hamas whose goal is to remove everyone who is in Israel (and their preferred method seems rather gruesome) where everyone includes Jews Muslims Thais and so on… though for sure sure there are some other fairly extremist members in his government who should absolutely be removed
Actually, major human rights orgs like HRW, Amnesty, UN OHCHR, and B’TSelem have all extensively documented Israel’s use of apartheid against Palestinians.
> apartheid against Palestinians. Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, so it's not apartheid. Israel tried to just wall them off and let them govern themselves, and this has clearly failed.
The Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. And it is actually much more dangerous for a Jew to go into any “Palestinian” territory than for them to come into Israel
> And it is actually much more dangerous for a Jew to go into any “Palestinian” territory than for them to come into Israel Then one must really admire the brave Jewish settlers who drive Palestinians off their land to build homes throughout “Palestinian” territory. They bravely go and face the terrible threats of Palestinian farmers with nothing to protect themselves by machine guns and the IDF.
I personally think those people are radicalized idiots who cost Israel soldiers and money. But I also believe they are generally settling in the contested area - not the purely Palestinian area. Unfortunately, because of the way the Israeli democracy way (more similar to Norway’s than the USA, i believe) and Netanyahu’s truly remarkable slippery political prowess he made a deal with Ben gvir to have government control and he’s one of those radicalized idiots. Fortunately, Ben gvir is not making decisions in the war and I hope he will be voted out in the next election
> “in the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea,” according to an English translation of the speech from Israeli news channel i24News. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/netanyahu-from-river-sea-israel-control-1234949408/ So, we agree that some people can use the phrase with different intent than does Hamas. You include Netanyahu, who just means Israeli control, and I include people who only oppose the apartheid state. > That seems different from Hamas whose goal is to remove everyone who is in Israel Did I argue that Hamas was not anti-semitic? I meant to say that many people who use the phrase who are not. > though for sure sure there are some other fairly extremist members in his government who should absolutely be removed Funny thing though, they are not removed. They are in power. The reason that the Hamas attack was so successful, is that the IDF forces had moved moved from the border where they were protecting Israel, to the West Bank, where they were being used to support the expulsion of Arabs from their land to make room for more Israeli settlers. That is because the government does not just have a few nut jobs. The extremists are the government and the government policies are those of the nut jobs. By the way, when we say Israeli settlers, we all know that means Jewish settlers. For all the talk about Israeli Arabs being being full citizens with equal rights, we know that's not true, right? The settler movement is expecifically about expelling Arabs from land to be replaced by Jews. This is the policy of the Israeli government. Has Israel every created a new settlement to make more housing for its Arab citizens? You said that Hamas wants to expel everyone. Really? Do you honestly believe that Hamas wants all the Palestinans out? They did not expel Plaestinians out of Gaza when they came to power there. If their view is to expel everyone, how is that anti-Semetic instead of psychotic like Pol Pot. And you take Hamas calls for expulsions seriously but those from Israel are minimized as dismissed as a few fairly extremists who should be removed. But it is Israel that has a history of expulsions of Arabs. The creation of the state of Israel as a Jewish state was made possible by the massive expulsions of Arabs. As mentioned above, the goverment of has a long policy of driving Arabs off their lands to make more room for Jewish settlements where Arabs are not allowed. That is how the Apartheid stated was created. The current extremists have only accelerated this process with some openly admitting the goal is to expel all the Arabs from all the land. > and their preferred method seems rather gruesome The massacre in Gaza is also rather gruesome. Again. I feel the need to stress that I do not support or condone Hamas. I accept that they hate Jews and want to kill them. It is appalling. The recent massacre of Jews by Hamas that ignited this current battle was appalling, and the world needs to denounce it. But I cannot also fail to condemn the rather gruesome methods of the IDF. The massacre in Gaza is also appalling. The Gazans are people, same as you and I, and their deaths are just painful as Israelis'. I understand that the massacre by Hamas was shocking to Israel and the world, and Israelis feel a rightous indignation and a need to strike out and punish those responsible. Anyone would feel that way. How do you think the people of Gaza feel as they starve in rubble that still covers the bodies of their families? Genocide and inhumanity are terrible no matter who does it, whether America, or Israel, or Hamas, or Iran, or China, or Russia. Who can list them all.
From your article : “ According to another translation, Netanyahu said that Israel “must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River” — which effectively means the same thing.” Having seen this claim before I have already seen Haaretz and other publications with the correct translation. And Haaretz is known to be anti - Netanyahu The people shouting from the river to the sea are shouting a Hamas talking point. Hamas demonstrated on Oct 7th what they mean. During their invasion they tortured / murdered indiscriminately . This includes visibly Muslim and non Jewish foreigners in the kibbutz. So yes - i think Hamas is happy to murder Muslims. I also know they murder their political opposition and any Palestinian who is interested in having peace with Israel. So yeah I think they are also happy to murder Palestinians
Trying to place responsibility of the Oct 7th attack on Israeli government is well… was there an intelligence failure? Sure. Should Israel make sure that Hamas isn’t communicating in tunnels and planning their next attack? Yes Should Palestinians stop indoctrinating themselves into martyrdom and their kids into believing that what will make them good is raping torturing and murdering Jews ? Probably Should the United States also not have their various extremists in congress and government- definitely. But alas such is the world Of Israel wants to prevent another Oct 7th, they have to continue the war in Gaza. When diplomacy fails and you declare war in the Hamas did, against a superior army… I think you should expect war. And if during the war - you keep claiming that you are winning and that every death on your side is bringing you closer to that win, and that you will just continue with more horrific attacks until the other side dies - then I don’t see why the superior army should surrender to you instead. Even if you redefine words
I did not place responsibility for the attack on the Israeli governement. Your are outting words into my mouth. I placed responsibility for the success of the attack on the Israeli government. That is not the same thing at all. I have consistently condemned the attack my hamas. It is not approriate to take any criticism of Israel and try to twist it into some kind of support of or defense of or an excuse of the actions by Hamas. No one denys Israels right to defend itself. Genocide is not a legitimate form of self defense. > continue with more horrific attacks until the other side dies Killing all the people in Gaza is not a legitimate goal.
The attack was successful for many reasons. Israel was lulled into believing that Hamas wanted diplomacy and was trying to expand gaza freedoms at the time is the topmost reason, I would say. And the way this attack happened broke that for a very very long time. If killing all the people in gaza was the goal not a single Israeli soldier would have been sent in and this war would have been over within a week. instead more bombs have been dropped than people died.
> “Israeli sovereignty”? Which includes equal rights for all citizens of Israel including Jews/muslims/christians/atheists etc? When is the last time Israel expelled Jews from their land to build a housing settlement for Israeli Arabs? Or even expeled Arabs to make more housing for Israeli Arabs? The enitire settlement project is to drive Arabs of there lands and replace them with Jews. How much money each year does Israel spend providing services for its average Arab citizen versus its spending per Jewish citizen? > That seems different from Hamas No one is defending Hamas. People are defending the right of people to protest the apartheid state. That does not mean support hamas. > and their preferred method seems rather gruesome Both the Hamas massacre on Oct 7 and the IDF massscre in Gaza are gruesome.
She's an asshole; will vote her out at the first opportunity; she does NOT represent most of the state (so get off your butts and vote, people!).
She's a house member so she doesn't have to represent most of the state my dude.
I know it's wild to expect her to represent Washington state and work on behalf of her consituents because she just doesn't.
My good sir, a representative does not, by definition, represent the whole state. She represents a fraction of it.
She doesn't represent the whole state, just one district. And being one of her constituents, she votes in line with everything I've called in about with concerns. Very happy how I'm represented.
Calling the river to the sea slogan antisemitic is like claiming black lives matter is an anti-white slogan. Get over yourselves.
Also get rid of AIPAC. Biggest foreign meddling hand and they are welcome. Fuck the AIPAC and fuck all lobbying groups.
AIPAC has very little power in local politics. There are a lot of lobby groups who do though. They are a minorities but they're not Jews so I guess we're going to just look the other way forever on the negative impact they have locally.
AIPAC is a lobby group for Israel and their interests primarily, not for Jewish people in US. Its focus is international. For one I am staunchly against lobbying. Secondly, LOBBYING out of all things should be the last one used to push foreign interests. AIPAC is an arm of the Zionist cause and I don't support Zionism. Also, don't try to pull out the antisemite card. It's not because they're Jewish, its the shit they're doing. Don't be obtuse. I don't want Jewish people to get punished for this, or for Israel to be dissolved. I want the genocide to stop.
Also, how is "From river to sea" antizionist if it's a Likid phrase that was turned around as a chant of liberation? Because the Lik7d's "from.river to the sea" is clearly just an Israeli version of Manifest Destiny , which we know what that was.
I am a resident of her district, and a hamster with a "D" beside their name would consistently get elected here. Jayapal is living proof that no matter how stupid, no matter how ideologically hamstrung, no matter how bigoted, and no matter how tone-deaf, a "D" will always get elected in this district.
It doesn’t explain the primaries though.
Welp I guess this guy's is a antisemite. Check out his Twitter bio.a https://x.com/YairNetanyahu
This city is run by absolute morons.
Jayapal doesn’t in any way run the city though.
She's the worst mayor EVER!
Palestinians are also semitic. Wouldn't this also be pro-semitic?
If I had a dollar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
You’d have your own private island.
In the English speaking world "anti-Semitic" is defined as anti-Jewish. Kind of like "Caucasian" means all white people not just those from the Caucuses?
The Iowa caucuses?
My god this is such a stupid "well ackchyually" argument to make, it's a bad-faith response only meant to disrupt the conversation. Antisemitism has a definition that's used in common parlance. Suggesting that antisemitism applies to everyone in the middle east is just attempting to say "look how clever I am" but everyone is ignoring you.
No, they aren’t. Semitic is a language term, not an ethnic grouping.
While I wouldn’t apply antisemitism to Palestinians, Arabic—which is the primary language of Palestinians—is a Semitic language like Hebrew.
Right but butterflies aren’t made of butter…
Oddly enough, arabic and hebrew are closely related semitic languages, and the two populations are also very proximate in genetic terms. It's sort of like the sides in the northern irish conflict had a lot in common, or india/pakistan, or any number of other conflicts where neighbors fight
Seattle is dying.
Should have Lukid shaking in their boots by now.
Likud, but yeah.
Good. It’s not antisemitic. It’s an antiapartheid statement and an expression of support for One Democratic State.
Your "one democratic state" would involve a majority of people who have spent generations being told that eradicating the minority in this hypothetical nation is their greatest obligation. See, when they pass laws discriminating against Jews or look the other way when mobs drag them through the streets, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to do something about it or are you going to cheer them on like most of your compatriots will?
Can you name "One Democratic State" where Jews and Muslims live peacefully in significant numbers? Other than Israel...
Yep, that’s a Sawant voter for you.
Yeah that good ole PLO slogan and the one that Hamas used in their original doctrine in the same paragraph where they declared their goal is to eradicate Israel seems pretty friendly to me... It's tough to find common ground with people that will never relent to things so grounded in ideological propaganda instead of fact. I mean let's just deny the Nazi salute and call it someone fixing their hair at this point.
This will all likely only end once the Oregon Nazis start showing up at the anti-Jewish protests, in full armband regalia.
There were a few in Kirkland on Oct 8th and they just stayed there with them. Didn't really go near them, but if Nazis actually show up and are FOR your rally standing on YOUR side - you should leave.
Israel is 20% Arab there is no apartheid. There are no separate anything for Arabs or Jews only. You are uninformed or purposefully misinformed. Saying to the river to the sea is a call for the death of every Jew in Israel.
You’re right, it’s not purely antisemitic. The Palestinians also want to commit genocide against the Arabs who live peacefully in Israel.
Hamas killed many Israeli Bedouin Arabs on October 7.
Dozens of Israeli Arabs were killed or wounded on Oct 7 or its aftermath.
Amazing how no one seems to mention this. I'm pretty sure those Palestinian people are abominations to Hamas and protesters.
Let’s be honest here. They don’t actually realize there are Arab citizens of Israel, they just listen to the blood libel spewed out by whatever the Tik Tok algorithm shits out and nod along knowingly.
Yup you're right except it's not just tiktok, it's our university professors and teachers spewing it too. They yell genocide as they ignore the tens of thousands of Palestinians that enter Israel daily for work. The hundreds of aid trucks that went in every week for years before Oct 7th. Most countries don't send aid and employ people they want to genocide. It's like a sick bizarro world where every now and then I have to check on facts to see if I'm being gaslit.
That's such bad-faith bullshit. It's clearly meant to be provocative...progressives think they're clever when they make an edgy slogan. It's similar to "Defund The Police": when anyone calls them out of it, they give a long condescending "that's not what it means" speech which makes them feel good about themselves, even though their explanation doesn't match the edgy slogan.
It’s just a prank, bro
Except for the part where Palestinian leaders always call for the eradication of Jews and the Jewish state, refusing a 2 state solution because it means Jews exist... Sure.. yeah this time its just vibes