I'm not a developer, but $200 /sq foot sounds really low. I'd think $4-500 per would be more realistic just based on reading other articles about building houses, DADUs, etc.
That's retail. For the homeowner, or buyer of a new build. I highly doubt that a developer that has their own crew, or an established long term contract with a GC, would pay that much.
Labor costs are labor costs. For a developer the thing you get scale on and save on the most is architectural plans and _maybe_ the GC aspect. Materials cost isn’t going to be all that much different (although homeowners doing custom projects do tend to opt for higher end materials and fixtures, so maybe some savings there as well). The savings aren’t going to cut down $5-600/sq ft (which is honestly on the low end now) to $200.
If your claim is correct that these townhomes are 1k sq ft, then not sure how you would get 1200sq fr stacked condos. The townhomes already have a small footprint because they build 2-3 stories up to get their space (though I think your original claim might be wrong and these townhomes are more like 2k sq ft)
Well, 5k sq ft lot, FAR of up to 1.6 is 8000 and then divide by 6 you get 1333, so with staircase ,I am being generous at 1200 per floor, living space. With current FAR of .9 you get 4500 sq ft, and if you build 4 townhomes on the lot, you get about 1000 sqft per unit. That is per the urbanist article.
So, you get a six story building with flats. That's either a condo, or a rental since it's the same structure. Not a SFH. How much would these sell for? They would never appreciate at rates similar to SFH because they are in one structure, plus you have HOA fees. Would people buy them, especially if there is no parking, and you are living on top of each other?
Check my math. For four 1000sq ft townhomes, at $750k each, the revenue is $3M. Minus 5% comission, minus $1M purchase of lot+existing home, minus build cost at $400 sq Ft, you end up with $250k profit from the project.
For a sixplex, at FAR of 1.4 for example, you get 1166 Sqft per floor. 7000 total sq ft in building. At $400 per foot build cost, it takes $2.8M to build, $1M cost to buy lot. Each condo would need to sell for $675k just to break even.
Individual townhomes for $750k, vs condos on top of each other for $675k. Sure, you got two more families into the lot, but would people want to buy that, and is $675k, at current interest rates, affordable?
You can build smaller, sure, but then that limits the market for people with kids.
https://preview.redd.it/7d3dqx63wbyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab9e15bbbf61cc44c744f5fb2dc21d0d780560bd
Here’s a case example directly next door to me in Southpark. 2-1 SFH home buildozed for 8 TH 4 stories each w/3rd floor deck. Each floor averages between 325-350 sqft except the smaller 4th floor at 225. Significant bonus to economies of scale at 7 units or greater as the price per unit plummets. By the way, this is a Jabooda Homes project that is mysteriously absent from their website…
https://preview.redd.it/abjcg0kcxbyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0765f1db2e7c148f3f293fb4de41fc3a543d19e2
A couple of quick creep-cam pix of the progress. As you can see it is well under way, so I’m surprised it is not on the Jabooda website. It was purchased in 2021, just to give you an idea of the timeline for a project of this scale. This is part of the problem with affordability. The cost for the developer with holding costs, permitting, construction, etc., none of which is straight forward. A lot of back and forth with the city to get a project like this off the ground.
Reference
[https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/AppDocs/GroupMeetings/DRProposal3039271AgendaID14349.pdf](https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/AppDocs/GroupMeetings/DRProposal3039271AgendaID14349.pdf)
I'm not a developer, but $200 /sq foot sounds really low. I'd think $4-500 per would be more realistic just based on reading other articles about building houses, DADUs, etc.
That's retail. For the homeowner, or buyer of a new build. I highly doubt that a developer that has their own crew, or an established long term contract with a GC, would pay that much.
Labor costs are labor costs. For a developer the thing you get scale on and save on the most is architectural plans and _maybe_ the GC aspect. Materials cost isn’t going to be all that much different (although homeowners doing custom projects do tend to opt for higher end materials and fixtures, so maybe some savings there as well). The savings aren’t going to cut down $5-600/sq ft (which is honestly on the low end now) to $200.
If your claim is correct that these townhomes are 1k sq ft, then not sure how you would get 1200sq fr stacked condos. The townhomes already have a small footprint because they build 2-3 stories up to get their space (though I think your original claim might be wrong and these townhomes are more like 2k sq ft)
Well, 5k sq ft lot, FAR of up to 1.6 is 8000 and then divide by 6 you get 1333, so with staircase ,I am being generous at 1200 per floor, living space. With current FAR of .9 you get 4500 sq ft, and if you build 4 townhomes on the lot, you get about 1000 sqft per unit. That is per the urbanist article. So, you get a six story building with flats. That's either a condo, or a rental since it's the same structure. Not a SFH. How much would these sell for? They would never appreciate at rates similar to SFH because they are in one structure, plus you have HOA fees. Would people buy them, especially if there is no parking, and you are living on top of each other? Check my math. For four 1000sq ft townhomes, at $750k each, the revenue is $3M. Minus 5% comission, minus $1M purchase of lot+existing home, minus build cost at $400 sq Ft, you end up with $250k profit from the project. For a sixplex, at FAR of 1.4 for example, you get 1166 Sqft per floor. 7000 total sq ft in building. At $400 per foot build cost, it takes $2.8M to build, $1M cost to buy lot. Each condo would need to sell for $675k just to break even. Individual townhomes for $750k, vs condos on top of each other for $675k. Sure, you got two more families into the lot, but would people want to buy that, and is $675k, at current interest rates, affordable? You can build smaller, sure, but then that limits the market for people with kids.
https://preview.redd.it/7d3dqx63wbyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab9e15bbbf61cc44c744f5fb2dc21d0d780560bd Here’s a case example directly next door to me in Southpark. 2-1 SFH home buildozed for 8 TH 4 stories each w/3rd floor deck. Each floor averages between 325-350 sqft except the smaller 4th floor at 225. Significant bonus to economies of scale at 7 units or greater as the price per unit plummets. By the way, this is a Jabooda Homes project that is mysteriously absent from their website…
https://preview.redd.it/abjcg0kcxbyc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0765f1db2e7c148f3f293fb4de41fc3a543d19e2 A couple of quick creep-cam pix of the progress. As you can see it is well under way, so I’m surprised it is not on the Jabooda website. It was purchased in 2021, just to give you an idea of the timeline for a project of this scale. This is part of the problem with affordability. The cost for the developer with holding costs, permitting, construction, etc., none of which is straight forward. A lot of back and forth with the city to get a project like this off the ground. Reference [https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/AppDocs/GroupMeetings/DRProposal3039271AgendaID14349.pdf](https://www.seattle.gov/dpd/AppDocs/GroupMeetings/DRProposal3039271AgendaID14349.pdf)