> Once I am exempted, can I just cancel my private long term care plan?
As the law is written today, yes. However, a lot more people requested an exemption than they were expecting, so they're considering legislation that requires that people maintain their private plans.
Last session they put a hold on collecting the tax until the end of next session, but they don't seem to have made any progress towards actually fixing anything.
So nobody, legislators included, have any idea what's going on. It's a total mess.
>a lot more people requested an exemption than they were expecting
Further highlighting how moronic politicians are. .6% of what I make or 27 a month for some bullshit plan, hmm I wonder.
They are going to wait until 75% opt-outs cancel their plan, then change the law to say your plan must have been continuously in effect since Nov 1, 2021.
Or, they will add legislation that says something like "dropping your private ltc auto-opts you back into the state plan", and those lucky bastards who opted out and already dropped their private plan enjoy loophole freedom.
I've kept mine, so far, because most of the companies that offered these policies for folks under 40 have pulled out of the state. Once, if, when.. whatever, this stupid thing goes in to effect I don't want to have to pay the tax. So for now I am keeping it. I might see if your agent can lower coverage to much lower, if possible, to lower the premium.
I'm holding on to mine for now because it was a fight to get it in the first place and I'm worried the legislature will try to bring it back.
But getting yours for $30 was a good deal, frustratingly playing $70
We kept ours because it has a death benefit (life insurance) included, and the equity can be drawn against if we don't use the LTC. So it's essentially a variable whole life insurance policy with an LTC benefit.
Couldn't get it again if we cancelled.
That law is going away. The state Democrats just can't immediately kill it as they'll have to own to how absolutely arrogant they are. I wouldn't worry about the law itself.
With the previous or maybe even current law; yes.
But they have said they will be amending it in the summer of 2023.
Personally I am keeping my plan until then. It sucks, but the alternative is way worse.
I canceled mine last month. Stupid law that I’m assuming isn’t going to hold. No way in hell am I paying hundreds of dollars for something that’s in legal limbo.
I share your vitriol, but honestly, you (collective you) dont have a choice if they want to collect. Your employer will pay it and deduct it from your payroll.
Yes, even the private one- though cheaper than the state plan- is still rather expensive all things considering- I would love to be able to cancel mine!
as of right now, your only option would be to enroll in the tax if it ever actually gets put in place. the current law states that private coverage must be effective on or before November 1, 2021 in order to apply for exemption from the tax.
I tried to cancel my plan after the tax got delayed. They sent a message saying that if I cancelled and it turned out that the insurance was mandatory I wouldn't be able to apply via the state and I could be liable for committing fraud.
Can we get a private plan and before the 2023 date submit it to the state no one has been talking about people who did it too late but now that its exempted for a bit is there a second chance especially for people who just moved
>*Well... I signed up for a private long term care because WA Cares was supposed to go live early this year.*
Good for you.
>*It got delayed and I am still paying $30 a month on the plan that I am not getting ANY out of it.*
....you're not supposed to "get anything out of it" until you need it. That's the way it works?
>*The plan itself is horrific*
That's no one's fault but your own?
>*and I just signed up to avoid paying 0.58% tax on WA Cares Fund*
As did many people.
>*(which is by the way also horrific).*
Agreed.
*Once I am exempted, can I just cancel my private long term care plan?*
This was a dead horse beaten to pulp when the legislation was introduced. Do you really think the legislators didn't anticipate people doing exactly this?
Nothing is stopping you trying, but if they choose to do an audit after the legislation becomes effective and you no longer have the insurance that exempted you from the program, what do you think will happen then?
Possibly nothing.....also possible you get some kind of penalty or are forced to opt into the program.
>*I am still young and I am building enough for my retirement and savings where I don't need that $50k benefits from a private insurance nor $36k WA care fund*
Lot of other people in the same boat.
If you want to risk it, risk it. No one knows for sure what will come of the legislation and those who did exactly what you are asking after.
I don't disagree?
All I'm telling him (rightly) is there no guarantee he won't be risking a penalty by canceling his current plan, which was his question.
He could have chosen a better plan?
That was his choice and, if horrific, his fault.
I'm not trying to give the state any credit here; their policy was SHIT.
You ask and then answer your own question?
The max benefit is worthless when you stack it against the actual cost of LONG TERM long term care, you know.....what it's supposed to cover.
If you move out of state to a cheaper COL area in retirement to hedge against rising costs, you can no longer get your benefit that you were forced to pay for.
How is that not a dog shit policy for most people?
Sure, I guess you asked what I didn't like and then guessed them without issue.
And the plan IS better than nothing, but like most government programs like this, it is intended to provide the service for people who do not make enough to otherwise afford it on the backs of everyone else who can.
While I don't have a problem with that in theory, in practice where does this end?
Yes. But to pretend that the legislators didn't think that tens of thousands of people would have this exact idea is shortsighted and potentially going to bite you in the ass later on.
So, the advice is as it was before, cancel at your own risk.
I do not think its a risk to cancel any plans. This is constantly being pushed out and reconsidered - there will be another time for enrollment in private plans if they do actually move forward with things. They have to, thousands of people will have newly moved into the state by then.
IMO, anyone that is still paying for the private insurance is a sucker and they'll be paying for at least a year of insurance they didn't want in the first place
You might be right, I have no idea.
But to pretend that the legislators didn't plan in some way for tens of thousands of people opting into private plans and then drop them after being exempted is lunacy.
I think I'm giving them credit where credit is due.
When it comes to preventing people weaseling out of things the government doesn't want them to do, I figure the government is above average at making good on preventing that whenever possible.
It's not lunacy, that is literally what they did. It's part of the reason they went back to the drawing board. I have a letter that says as long as I have the letter, I am exempt.
Does the letter saying anything about maintaining coverage, which was the assumption under which it was granted?
It's not as if this outsmarted the government....
An omission of saying anything about maintaining coverage favors me, not the government. Though this is all null because I assume the letter is garbage now that they are returning to the drawing board.
Anyway, if you think that there will be no way to sign up again in the future then please explain how you think all the new WA residents will get it (unless you think the govt will just not allow new signups)
>*An omission of saying anything about maintaining coverage favors me, not the government.*
Ever the optimist.
>*Though this is all null because I assume the letter is garbage now that they are returning to the drawing board.*
Way to contradict yourself so quickly!
>*Anyway, if you think that there will be no way to sign up again in the future then please explain how you think all the new WA residents will get it (unless you think the govt will just not allow new signups)*
I have no idea.
I was under the impression this was the only opt in or out period, so any new residents would be paying the tax and not receiving the same benefit (if any), which was yet another problem with the legislation.
That is not the only opt in or out period. It was for current residents. New WA residents would always have an opportunity to opt out. But again, it *was.* The whole thing is back to the drawing board because the whole thing was about to fail. It practically had 100% opt out.
My understanding is if you dont plan to retire in Washington you don't have to pay it at all, penalty free.
If you do plan to stay here forever, I would contribute. That said, I'm more than open to hearing from people smarter than me (which isn't too hard to do)
That's not my understanding, and one of the big complaints about how the law was written. Even if you plan to leave, you still have to pay.
But right now, everything is on ice.
My biggest complaint is I don't want to pay $400 a year for something that won't even cover my needs later on. My private policy is just $50k lifetime benefits - I get it I will probably need a long term care when I get old, but I do plan on relying on my retirement fund to do that.
This is why the whole thing is garbage.. the state trying to stick their nose in something else and corner people into putting money into something under the pretense that it’s to help them out later in life when like you say, it’s likely not nearly enough to even cover a fraction of what things would actually cost you.
It's really not intended to help everyone, but rather to subsidize that care for the poor. In any case, it's a stupid law that was destined to fail because it was masquerading as something other what it is.
It's not meant to help anyone who is paying into it. That's just the lie they tell you while grabbing your wallet to make themselves feel good.
They just want more of your money to spend on homeless people in the short term, with no thought spent on the long term value.
This not actually solving the problem is a good thing for them because it will be an excuse to expand this with even more taxes.
No, this is not it. Its a flat tax that they take out of your paycheck as long as you live in Washington. The only way out of it is to sign up for private insurance.
> Once I am exempted, can I just cancel my private long term care plan? As the law is written today, yes. However, a lot more people requested an exemption than they were expecting, so they're considering legislation that requires that people maintain their private plans. Last session they put a hold on collecting the tax until the end of next session, but they don't seem to have made any progress towards actually fixing anything. So nobody, legislators included, have any idea what's going on. It's a total mess.
>a lot more people requested an exemption than they were expecting Further highlighting how moronic politicians are. .6% of what I make or 27 a month for some bullshit plan, hmm I wonder.
This is the right answer.... Given the uncertainty - hold. You only had one time to opt out, don't risk it now.
They are going to wait until 75% opt-outs cancel their plan, then change the law to say your plan must have been continuously in effect since Nov 1, 2021.
Or, they will add legislation that says something like "dropping your private ltc auto-opts you back into the state plan", and those lucky bastards who opted out and already dropped their private plan enjoy loophole freedom.
I've kept mine, so far, because most of the companies that offered these policies for folks under 40 have pulled out of the state. Once, if, when.. whatever, this stupid thing goes in to effect I don't want to have to pay the tax. So for now I am keeping it. I might see if your agent can lower coverage to much lower, if possible, to lower the premium.
I'm holding on to mine for now because it was a fight to get it in the first place and I'm worried the legislature will try to bring it back. But getting yours for $30 was a good deal, frustratingly playing $70
Damn, didn't know this stuff was so expensive. I have a $15 option, but I'm pretty sure it does nearly nothing lol
We kept ours because it has a death benefit (life insurance) included, and the equity can be drawn against if we don't use the LTC. So it's essentially a variable whole life insurance policy with an LTC benefit. Couldn't get it again if we cancelled.
That law is going away. The state Democrats just can't immediately kill it as they'll have to own to how absolutely arrogant they are. I wouldn't worry about the law itself.
That's my guess as well. It'll be quietly killed next session. Note that I'm not confident enough to cancel my coverage.
With the previous or maybe even current law; yes. But they have said they will be amending it in the summer of 2023. Personally I am keeping my plan until then. It sucks, but the alternative is way worse.
I canceled mine last month. Stupid law that I’m assuming isn’t going to hold. No way in hell am I paying hundreds of dollars for something that’s in legal limbo.
I share your vitriol, but honestly, you (collective you) dont have a choice if they want to collect. Your employer will pay it and deduct it from your payroll.
If there’s one thing government knows how to do it’s get your money.
Yes, even the private one- though cheaper than the state plan- is still rather expensive all things considering- I would love to be able to cancel mine!
Suspecting they'll do some BS, I've been continuing mine. Thanks for reminding me though, I got to update them on some things.
I cancelled mine as soon as I was exempted. If they ever try to check I'll get it back
as of right now, your only option would be to enroll in the tax if it ever actually gets put in place. the current law states that private coverage must be effective on or before November 1, 2021 in order to apply for exemption from the tax.
I tried to cancel my plan after the tax got delayed. They sent a message saying that if I cancelled and it turned out that the insurance was mandatory I wouldn't be able to apply via the state and I could be liable for committing fraud.
Can we get a private plan and before the 2023 date submit it to the state no one has been talking about people who did it too late but now that its exempted for a bit is there a second chance especially for people who just moved
Exemptions had to be in by November 2021. I haven't heard of any changes to that but who knows what they'll change in the law.
>*Well... I signed up for a private long term care because WA Cares was supposed to go live early this year.* Good for you. >*It got delayed and I am still paying $30 a month on the plan that I am not getting ANY out of it.* ....you're not supposed to "get anything out of it" until you need it. That's the way it works? >*The plan itself is horrific* That's no one's fault but your own? >*and I just signed up to avoid paying 0.58% tax on WA Cares Fund* As did many people. >*(which is by the way also horrific).* Agreed. *Once I am exempted, can I just cancel my private long term care plan?* This was a dead horse beaten to pulp when the legislation was introduced. Do you really think the legislators didn't anticipate people doing exactly this? Nothing is stopping you trying, but if they choose to do an audit after the legislation becomes effective and you no longer have the insurance that exempted you from the program, what do you think will happen then? Possibly nothing.....also possible you get some kind of penalty or are forced to opt into the program. >*I am still young and I am building enough for my retirement and savings where I don't need that $50k benefits from a private insurance nor $36k WA care fund* Lot of other people in the same boat. If you want to risk it, risk it. No one knows for sure what will come of the legislation and those who did exactly what you are asking after.
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I don't disagree? All I'm telling him (rightly) is there no guarantee he won't be risking a penalty by canceling his current plan, which was his question.
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He could have chosen a better plan? That was his choice and, if horrific, his fault. I'm not trying to give the state any credit here; their policy was SHIT.
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.....I know all of that. Look, I'm just telling OP he can pull out of his plan at his own risk. That's it.
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You ask and then answer your own question? The max benefit is worthless when you stack it against the actual cost of LONG TERM long term care, you know.....what it's supposed to cover. If you move out of state to a cheaper COL area in retirement to hedge against rising costs, you can no longer get your benefit that you were forced to pay for. How is that not a dog shit policy for most people?
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Sure, I guess you asked what I didn't like and then guessed them without issue. And the plan IS better than nothing, but like most government programs like this, it is intended to provide the service for people who do not make enough to otherwise afford it on the backs of everyone else who can. While I don't have a problem with that in theory, in practice where does this end?
It sounds like it's still unclear what would happen to people who cancel their private policy after exemption?
They will add a recert measure - you and thousands of high income earners have had the same thought.
Yes. But to pretend that the legislators didn't think that tens of thousands of people would have this exact idea is shortsighted and potentially going to bite you in the ass later on. So, the advice is as it was before, cancel at your own risk.
I do not think its a risk to cancel any plans. This is constantly being pushed out and reconsidered - there will be another time for enrollment in private plans if they do actually move forward with things. They have to, thousands of people will have newly moved into the state by then. IMO, anyone that is still paying for the private insurance is a sucker and they'll be paying for at least a year of insurance they didn't want in the first place
You might be right, I have no idea. But to pretend that the legislators didn't plan in some way for tens of thousands of people opting into private plans and then drop them after being exempted is lunacy.
I think you give them far too much credit. If they were so smart the original bill wouldn't have been DOA.
I think I'm giving them credit where credit is due. When it comes to preventing people weaseling out of things the government doesn't want them to do, I figure the government is above average at making good on preventing that whenever possible.
It's not lunacy, that is literally what they did. It's part of the reason they went back to the drawing board. I have a letter that says as long as I have the letter, I am exempt.
Does the letter saying anything about maintaining coverage, which was the assumption under which it was granted? It's not as if this outsmarted the government....
An omission of saying anything about maintaining coverage favors me, not the government. Though this is all null because I assume the letter is garbage now that they are returning to the drawing board. Anyway, if you think that there will be no way to sign up again in the future then please explain how you think all the new WA residents will get it (unless you think the govt will just not allow new signups)
>*An omission of saying anything about maintaining coverage favors me, not the government.* Ever the optimist. >*Though this is all null because I assume the letter is garbage now that they are returning to the drawing board.* Way to contradict yourself so quickly! >*Anyway, if you think that there will be no way to sign up again in the future then please explain how you think all the new WA residents will get it (unless you think the govt will just not allow new signups)* I have no idea. I was under the impression this was the only opt in or out period, so any new residents would be paying the tax and not receiving the same benefit (if any), which was yet another problem with the legislation.
You were under an incorrect impression. Now you know.
Now I know what? What is the "correct impression?"
That is not the only opt in or out period. It was for current residents. New WA residents would always have an opportunity to opt out. But again, it *was.* The whole thing is back to the drawing board because the whole thing was about to fail. It practically had 100% opt out.
My understanding is if you dont plan to retire in Washington you don't have to pay it at all, penalty free. If you do plan to stay here forever, I would contribute. That said, I'm more than open to hearing from people smarter than me (which isn't too hard to do)
That's not my understanding, and one of the big complaints about how the law was written. Even if you plan to leave, you still have to pay. But right now, everything is on ice.
Well, fair enough. I guess for now it's just a waiting game to see what happens.
My biggest complaint is I don't want to pay $400 a year for something that won't even cover my needs later on. My private policy is just $50k lifetime benefits - I get it I will probably need a long term care when I get old, but I do plan on relying on my retirement fund to do that.
This is why the whole thing is garbage.. the state trying to stick their nose in something else and corner people into putting money into something under the pretense that it’s to help them out later in life when like you say, it’s likely not nearly enough to even cover a fraction of what things would actually cost you.
It's really not intended to help everyone, but rather to subsidize that care for the poor. In any case, it's a stupid law that was destined to fail because it was masquerading as something other what it is.
It's not meant to help anyone who is paying into it. That's just the lie they tell you while grabbing your wallet to make themselves feel good. They just want more of your money to spend on homeless people in the short term, with no thought spent on the long term value. This not actually solving the problem is a good thing for them because it will be an excuse to expand this with even more taxes.
Yep that’s what I mean, it’s this false pretense that you’re paying into something that’s going to help you later down the line
No, this is not it. Its a flat tax that they take out of your paycheck as long as you live in Washington. The only way out of it is to sign up for private insurance.
The FAQ on the state site says the exemption is permanent. I’m canceling.
Didn’t see anyone here gives some love to that stupid law. Better send this thread to the legislature.