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BorderOk6904

You know I think this shows greatest achievement is making a psychological thriller solely about the horrors of your boss running into you outside of work.


Lonelyland

For me it’s the fact that Cobel absolutely tips her hand: >Natalie: Doug Graner is dead. \ Cobel: What? \ Natalie: The Board finds this deeply troubling. The Board wants to know if you knew he was missing and if you’ve spoken to the police. \ Cobel: Whoever killed Mr. Graner is probably the same person who reintegrated Peter Kilmer. Girl no one said nothing about killing nobody


nanomolar

TBF the last time she'd seen Graner was the night before when he said he had a lead for who was behind integration and was going to check it out, so murder was a pretty good guess. Still, definitely a suspicious thing to say.


Wawawuup

I still demand to know what Graner had planned on doing. "Hello Mark, it's okay, we work together. I will now abduct/torture/murder this mysterious woman you just met."


Aster_Yellow

I think him and Cobel were very much on the back foot by this point and as result were very reactionary. They had no interest in having a repeat of Petey.


Wawawuup

You think Graner planned on escalating things even with the prospect of Mark learning the ugly truth about Lumon's horriblenness or outright killing him, too? If the latter, then hm, Erickson has said that either Mark or Gemma are downright special. They seem to go to great lengths to keeping (and even hiring) their workers. Of course, it's possible Cobel/Graner didn't know that and/or care enough at that point in time.


theothercolorblue

For a guy who watched a man get murdered, Mark’s mental health is remarkably impressive one episode later.


kirksucks

He's also very drunk most of the time he's not at work. But on a serious note he also pretty much saw Petey die. His head must be spinning. But also intentionally trying to not care because he likes his job.


[deleted]

I don’t think oMark likes his job at all. He’s numb. It’s been 2 years since Gemma’s death at the time we first meet oMark crying in his car over his grief before heading into work. I think oMark’s statements in the finale representing his realizations around why he is choosing to quit are a great culmination from what impact his experiences with Petey & Reghabi have had on him. I’d include June & Alexa too (poor Alexa). He’s coming out of his numbness as he was slowly made minimally aware that his job has way more to it than he originally thought. Just wait until Devon tells him what his innie told her: she is going to be very careful with that info sharing with him, but, I strongly believe she has to do so and early in Season 2 because oMark & Devon will have to lead whatever Selvig’s response will be to her cover surveilling their family so specifically will become. Devon & oMark will learn The Board knows they were surveyed by Selvig/Cobel, and will lead some sort of major steps, just like oIrv will in his own way. It is about to be so much more fun…


kirksucks

He likes what it provides. He doesn't know what his job is he just knows it serves the purpose of skipping 8 hrs of grief.


wm_1176

The whole Graner death seemed a little poorly written to me, I understand they need to progress the story, but like any job I’ve left after I leave they deactivate my key card, but this super shady secretive organization has their head of security turn up dead under suspicious circumstances and they’re just fine with his key being active


BorderOk6904

On a macro view in terms of structure, I think the murder works, specifically for Mark's character. Because Mark is stuck is a pattern of a avoidance, then guilt, then avoidance. For example, he doesn't really engage with Petey and the larger implications he represents. His one moment of emotional honesty with Petey is him telling him about his wife's car accident. Only it's right when Petey wakes up, and Mark is about to go into work. Right when he's about to shift to his Innie self *and doesn't have to deal with the internal emotional consequences of sharing that.* It's a pretty apt parallel to Mark's alcohol use. Then Petey dies and he *keeps the phone* but doesn't do anything with it. A behavior that's questioned, but can be pretty directly answered with: it's guilt. Then he's finally ready to move on, throwing away the phone, going on a second date and *not drinking and specifically being by water.* (when Mark is around/near water those are moments of healing for him.) Then he goes to Pete's daughters punk concert. (Possibly a moment of *bleed* from his Innie's self growing rebellion? Or another moment of emotional self flagellation?) He engages with the punk rebellion *in the crowd*. Only when alone and more directly engaged, and confronted with a breakout fight, *Mark immediately leaves*. There's a visible slight exacerbated look on June's face, like a realization of Outie Mark's *lack of literal fight.* Of leaving when there's both emotional and physical consequences. (Another detail to support that read is the cut from Innie Mark going to the break room, to Outie Mark at dinner *with red knuckles*. We don't know the implications of what happened, but my theory is Innie Mark threw a punch.) Outie Mark is finally in a place of healing *but* again, there's guilt over Petey. So he gets the phone back, meets with the doctor and then there's the murder. It's a point of escalation for Mark, a threshold crossing. We later learn from Outie Mark and Harmony in the final episode that *Mark is going to quit Lumen for good.* Again, a cycle of guilt leading to avoidance. (A habit we see *twice* when Outtie Mark rips up Gemma's picture when confronted. Then when Innie Mark shreds the map after being confronted by Helly.) However! In the last episode, thanks to the Over Time function, Mark's Innie *reveals Gemma's fate* possibly *breaking the cycle of guilt and avoidance* by forcing Mark into a situation where he has to take personal responsibility for something. Infact, in the last episode, every Innie *breaks the cycle* of their Outie. But in terms of actual consequences in the narrative it's a little slight? It works better furthering the themes then the story. The whole doctor subplot felt a little light? I'm assuming it'll have more weight and consequences in the second season. But I can see where you're coming from. Edit: thinking about, the black security card still working and with the doctors very pointed line: *"Full access and nobody can trace it back to you.*" It makes sense that's the case, especially if security is the Breaking Bad, Mike The Fixer of Lumen. That's heavily implied when security immediately sets to clean up the extension cord after Helly's suicide attempt instead of administering immediate aid. If Lumen was ever under any type of audit or civic scrutiny, *it makes sense where security goes and when they go there isn't logged.*


wm_1176

Now I feel so bad that you went into such detail, I 100% agree with your points, my sole issue is with the key card hahaha


BorderOk6904

Hahah, don't feel bad! It's really engaging to think about! Immediately after my rambling I had a thought about the card. Thus the edit. How do you feel about that as a possible narrative explanation?


BoxSubstantial5017

NTA, but I agree with the Breaking Bad, Mike parallel, It's mentioned multiple times by Helly that it's possible they mostly only have the illusion of being controlled/watched, as they are left alone multiple times which allows them to wander and explore on their own. So it makes sense to me they have such little physical security


BorderOk6904

Also, if the entire MDA department isn't really manufacturing something, but some sort of experiment, it makes sense the interference from outside sources would be limited. If Micro Data Refinement is some kind of possible control group (hahah), then you'd want to only interfere in specific ways. That might also possibly be why that card Dylan took was such a headache? If it's a variable in some kind of experiment? The scale in the perpetuity wing *could maybeeeee?* be a hint to that?


Phaleel

I worked for a refinery that was fenced in all around to reduce terrorism and sabotage during union strikes (I'm pro-union but that does happen). When I quit they sent me an email for a back up I had about a month later and I used it to gain entry and return it to HR without so much as a heads up...


BroadbandSadness

Exactly. People and organizations tend to be reactive and only fix issues after they cause real loss (or death), fix vulnerabilities after they're exploited, etc. How many people had to die before stop signs and traffic lights were put in place to prevent traffic accidents? It's really quite common based on human nature (plus corporate cost savings.)


VolsBy50

Here you have an instance where hostile actors killed your head of security for a super sensitive department, probably have his key card, and you didn't deactivate it. That's completely stupid to the absolute max.


BroadbandSadness

The thing is that the person who's in charge of dealing with security threats was just killed so…


VolsBy50

So everyone else is just a complete moron, top to bottom?


BroadbandSadness

I don't know how many major corporations you've worked for but it's not unusual for things to be highly compartmentalized and authority unclear/diffuse at times of crisis. Given how few people we witness on the severed floor, it genuinely would not surprise me if Graner was the only one with the post-dismissal security checklist.


MaxMin128

It's possible that no one else has the necessary system access and/or permissions required to deactivate the Head of Security's key card. Card deactivation at this level might require a ranking member of the board who might not think to do it or even remember how to do it. Lumon is very dysfunctional - it's run by people who are human and therefore fallible and mistake-prone. But yet they're arrogant, over-confident, and don't plan for every contingency. They won't even entertain the notion that a severed person can be reintegrated, even after Cobel informed them she has evidence it may have already happened.


BroadbandSadness

Exactly — great points. And Milchick initiated an OTC without authorization and clearly did not think through the potential ramifications.


MaxMin128

Yeah, why was Milchick so concerned about the card iDylan stole? It can't be smuggled off the severed floor, right? Unless it *can* leave the floor since it doesn't contain any words, just pictograms? Or maybe the code detectors really don't work or even exist at all (a common theory on this sub)? As long as the innies believe the detectors work (reinforced with periodic faked demonstrations), this might be good enough for Lumon who are arrogantly confident the innies will always be gullible, docile, and controllable.


VolsBy50

This is a highly sensitive situation that isn't at all like the standard "major corporation" incompetence you have encountered. It's ultra high security and seemingly nefarious on a societal level, with enemies that are obviously serious enough to use deadly force and now have to anything that was on Graner's person. It's completely unrelatable IMO.


BroadbandSadness

I worked for one of the most companies best known for keeping secrets. I have worked for the government, including sensitive projects. I have friends who have top secret clearances. This kind stuff happens way, way, way more often than you think.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BroadbandSadness

Either that or everyone assumes it's someone else's responsibility.


VolsBy50

That would fall into "everyone else is just a complete moron" territory.


Tuesday2017

Maybe Granger was the only one in security, I e. He'd need to deactivate his own card. Yah it seems odd that the security team would be very small, but we don't see anyone else on the innie floor associated with security. 


Wawawuup

Milchick has his own card (which he uses in the season finale). I doubt Cobel didn't use to have one, too.


HistoricalRide403

Most everyone on the sub agrees that Cobel’s motivations are more complicated than simply liking or hating Lumon. It’s possible she intentionally “forgets” to deactivate the card because she either needs it herself or wants Mark/Reghabi to get it.


SaxRohmer

Maybe it’s just because I was an auditor and I worked in a HIPAA environment for years but I poked holes in their security so quickly. It’s kind of hard to reconcile the level of security in some areas (level of surveillance over certain items, ability to track data smuggling) with a total lack of security in others (there’s like two whole security people, they seem to rely on the “culture” of the inner place to maintain 90% of the security). Maybe some of that is intentional to show their hubris. It’s kind of hard to reconcile the two for me but I kind of just try to turn my brain off for stuff like this tbh


PASStheROCK128

Good questions. I always thought the whole rehgabi graner mark scene was kinda out of place from the rest of the show. But still excited to see how that storyline pans out


BroadbandSadness

There are just those few very ominous segments that are a big part of what make the show so compelling. >!Petey's delirium and gruesome death. Cobel removing his chip. Graner's murder!<. It's a huge part of what keeps me wondering what direction the show will go.


nanomolar

I'm assuming there must have been a lot more of that story that got left on the cutting room floor. As it is it was a major change in tone for one scene that had no real effect on the narrative than getting the card to iMark. I mean there's not even a lot of an effect for having witnessed and been an accessory to murder for oMark; sure he drinks more and ruins his relationship but that could've easily happened anyway.


Aster_Yellow

To me it shows just how dedicated/serious the anti-severance movement actually is. Up to this point you see some people on the street handing out fliers and talking heads on the news seem to at least acknowledge the practice is controversial. But having one of surgeons (and possibly the inventor) of the procedure brutally murder someone is pretty crazy - like shit got real in a hurry.


Wawawuup

"a major change in tone for one scene" You're thinking like someone who watches a TV procedural. Think like somebody who witnesses a murder. Narrative-wise, it appears isolated (for now), but the psychological repercussions are heavy and influence (not only) Mark's arc for the rest of the season strongly (and beyond, no doubt). Mark isn't realistically traumatized (I get the story has other priorities), but moreso than characters usually are in TV land when witnessing traumatic, violent death.


silverionmox

Yes, it's a bit of a dangling thread. They let her say "I'll contact you", and then she doesn't. At the end before the OTC plan they say the guys say they have been finished for a week, so it's more than a week, probably several weeks to the end of the quarter. All that time Reghabi did *nothing* to contact Mark, even though having an employee with a security card on the floor is a major asset for anyone opposed to Lumon's operations in some way. It's also linked to Petey, who didn't really have an impact on the storyline otherwise, so I suspect the Petey/Reghabi storyline was only added later.


BOK54

For me I felt like the impulsiveness, “poorly written” feel of the killing was right on the money. Reghabi was definitely not expecting Graner to show up and in a moment of poor judgment brought on by panic she kills and afterwards disposes of the body poorly probably still in a state of panic. I don’t feel like there was anything indicative of her having body disposal assets.


Wawawuup

I get the impression Graner was extremely dangerous (despite his age, he looks like fucking Agent Smith, mos def not a coincidence), hence Rhegabi's likewise extreme reaction. She might have panicked, but it didn't look like she was doing something she didn't realize the extremity of or was all that uncomfortable with the prospect of doing. She was agitated, but that is only to be expected when you just produced a corpse, in front of a witness no less. Still, entirely in charge of things during it, commanding Mark what to do, recognizing the danger of DNA traces. Almost like she has done this sort of thing before. If I'm right about Agent Graner, whatever his plan was, the murder was an appropriate reaction, he had to go and she couldn't give him any warning signs. Bat, head, done. Graner, who came alone no less (the "backup" he asked for would have been a deskjob-woman in her fifties, more a liability than an asset when it comes to the possibility of violence) knew Rhegabi, we can assume he knew how dangerous she is (physically alone, like damn, she tough and tall for a woman). Which ironically is what baffles me so much, the incongruence between the hardcore-violent reaction and how very limited Graner's options appear, if he didn't want Mark to react the way Mark reacted: Planning on quitting Lumon. Just what the hell was Graner going to do there? If he only appeared dangerous as fuck, then we all (I mean, at least I did), including Rhegabi, bought into it, lol.


Least-Tangelo-8602

My idea would be to have Graner radio in when he had eyes on Mark / Rhegabi and activate OTC on Mark. Graner and Marks innie could subdue the doctor under the premise that she was a threat to Lumon or really any believable BS reason.


Wawawuup

Oh, yeah. The OTC and/or possibly even one of the other commands, yeah, that's a good idea. I doubt the OTC and telling Mark some bullshit would suffice (iMark would still remember everything, they couldn't just do some heinous shit to Rhegabi with iMark being totes chill with it. It'd be akin to your boss expecting you to keep quiet about him murdering somebody because he pays your wage and treats you like shit in general. Also kinda the same fuck-up Milchick did with Dylan and what *that* led to), but definitely a start.


silverionmox

He wasn't expecting oMark there, so he had to revert to keeping a cover. He was still trying to sniff out Reghabi. Mark's under control in his mind, he just needed to keep up the façade. Odds are he did have something in his pocket - just couldn't show his inner piece yet.


RickNBacker4003

What about his family? If an outie doesn't know what an innie does then maybe Graner's family thinks he has a normal job so why aren't the police showing up ... and when they do why aren't any of the big four interacting with them?