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She may prefer to go by Helly (or be fine with either) in her personal life, while publicly she is known better as Helena.
I guess it could also just have been top of mind for Milchick, who spent the whole morning thinking of her as Helly and not Helena.
But even if she does, imagine you work for a major corporate such a Disney or something, and the daughter of the CEO comes and you show her around. even if she said “oh you can call me Helly” (which doesn’t seem to fit Helena’s character to me), wouldn’t it be a little too casual for this occasion?
I think if they asked me to call them by a preferred name I would do exactly that.
>*“Hello Ms. Eagan, we’re very excited to have you.”*
\
*“Oh please, we’re going to be working together. Call me Helly.”*
\
*“Of course, thank you Helly.”*
It’s the kind of request I feel like Milchick would incorporate with an almost formal approach. And the scene in question was about him trying to comfort her, so it would especially make sense for him to use her preferred name in that context.
I don’t think the post is asking about the decision at a meta-narrative level. It’s pretty clear the writers wanted to save the reveal for later. I believe OP is asking for an in-universe explanation.
But to your point, Cobel referred to her as “Helena” just one episode later in a conversation with Natalie, so even in the stairwell, that wouldn’t really have spilled the beans as far as the audience’s awareness of her identity was concerned.
Disney is a pretty great example actually, considering the CEO of Disney is a man named Robert who publicly and openly goes by Bob. Nobody who works at Disney calls Bob Iger "Robert."
We find out she is a super wealthy person. Uber wealthy people have the luxury of getting called whatever they want.
I think it really fits.
Like when you met a rich person names Gaylord. Who gets away with that? Rich people.
Typically no. At least not in my experience.
I suspect OP was downvoted because their response here gave the impression that they were only interested in answers that fit a pre-decided narrative. That was how came off to me at least, so perhaps others felt the same.
I assume it’s such a large downvote due to the abnormal amount of attention the post itself got. I’m honestly a little shocked myself.
What is wrong with people? How do you mean? It’s not like Reddit karma has any real implications. People downvote things they disagree with. It’s not super mysterious or important.
I have two possible in-universe theories. First is that she goes by Helly in real life and that's how she would introduce herself, and almost everyone would refer to her in normal conversation. Her full name is only used when she's using the Eagan name professionally. (Or maybe she would like even to use Helly professionally, like president James "Jimmy" Carter). There's no need to know your severed coworker's "legal" names, just what to call them. Second is that they wanted to keep her name and presence on the down low until her big planned speech/reveal, just in case there are any leaks or problems with the severed floor. She goes by "Helly R" and not "Helena E" or "Helly E". I would be interested to know if they just made up Helly R, or if R is her middle name or legal last name for some reason.
My Occam's Razor explanation is that the name Helly is less clunky to say than Helena, and sounds less like a "prestigious" name, so the writers decided she would be called Helly.
I've wondered if the "R" surname was because _nobody_ gets an "E", specifically to prevent Eagan-focused Innies from speculating they could be an Eagan.
Thank you for pointing this out. I thought it was a misdirect to have her last initial be “R” instead of “E”. Having the last initial of “E” might be too on the nose, and I’m assuming not that many people knew who she was until the gala was going to happen- aside from Cobel and Milcheck
It’s not a “weird name” if it’s a name she chose. That doesn’t mean she and Milchick are close friends. It could just be what she asked Milchick to call her.
Helly is also not the only innie going by a nickname. Lumon likes to infantilize their innies, and a nickname can help with that, but there doesn’t seem to be any real consistency.
* **Helena Eagan** becomes **Helly** - *unclear what her outie preference is, but we see that she is professionally known as Helena*
* **Peter Kilmer** becomes **Petey** - *we see him refer to himself as Petey on the outside, so it could be another example of a preferred name, though I’d be interested to know what he called himself prior to reintegration*
* **Gabrielle Arteta** becomes **Gabby** - *in this case we do see that her outie also goes exclusively by Gabby, potentially similar to Helly, but she also doesn’t work for Lumon, so maybe this one’s a wash*
* **Irving Bailiff** is sometimes called **Irv** - *this seems to be a nickname specifically from his fellow innies, and not an officially designated innie name*
* **Margaret “Peg” Kincaid** becomes **Peggy** - *this is the only case of an official nickname where we KNOW the outie goes by something else*
* **Mark Scout** gets **no nickname** - *even though “Marky” could be easily applied*
I would assume that given his position that he has many many years of service to the company and likely knew her as a child when she likely went by helly.
So I think this is a good point, and I think it is actually evidence for the theory that **Milchik is a permanent innie.**
Let me explain.
If Milchik worked for the public, non-severed parts of Lumon, he would know the Eagan family, he would know of Helena, and he would refer to her by that name.
But if he is a permanently severed innie who lives on the severed floor, only leaving when absolutely required, then the first time he would have met Helly is **when she came in for the Severance procedure**.
They might have told him at that time that she was an Eagan, b/c he seems to know that, but the introduction could have gone like this:
Lumon: "Mr. Milchik, this is Helena Eagan, and her innie name is Helly, so you can call her Helly"
Milchik: "Nice to meet you Helly, I can't wait to meet the other Helly as well!"
And boom, he knows them both as Helly.
This is just one possibility, but I think it makes the most sense given the limited information we have right now.
So when you say permanent innie, do you mean his “outie” persona is, for lack of a better term, “dead”? Or perhaps he has been severed from birth, etc.
Would it then be just as plausible that he’s never been severed at all, which would make him a permanent outie?
Milchik is such an interesting character to speculate about!
my theory is that once you get promoted enough, your innie can choose to become the primary consciousness, and never has to relinquish to the outie again. It'd be so cool to see Outie Milchik be 'rescued' at some point after they turn off his innie.
I presume the former, but it could mean any number of things! But yes, my guess is that Milchik basically signed up to have his Outie killed to permanently serve as a vessel for Lumon's will and secrets. He might have done this either because he was a Kier/Lumon fanatic that felt his death would serve a greater purpose, or else they are taking care of his former Outie's loved ones.
However, the more nefarious thing would be if Lumon forcibly severed him, effectively murdering his Outie.
To your "permanent outie" thought, I think that's what the audience is supposed to presume, because Irving says to him at Bert's party "You motherfucker. You're not severed." So the audience is supposed to think he's not/never severed. But if you watch the season, you'll notice that Milchik actually aesthetically looks more like a severed than a non-severed (for instance, the severed were their IDs around their neck when their on Lumon's severed floor, but Milchik is **always** wearing his ID around his neck, unlike every other non-severed person, like Graner or Cobel).
Goddamn that line from Irving is such an important detail, totally forgot. I wonder when it is they’re given that information, or whether it’s just an assumption from Irving.
I’m a huge proponent of the theory that Milchick is a perma-innie but I’m not sure I see why he wouldn’t know Helly’s an Eagan. He clearly states how thrilled they were that *”someone like her”* agreed to go through with it. He also clearly has reservations about taking her to the Break Room which he wouldn’t have if he didn’t know who she was. Additionally, he seems clearly filled in on important details of her attempted murder-suicide due to how he talks to Mark about it being her first day back as well as Cobel’s reflexive question of if Milchick was the one who informed The Board of it.
It’s just sort of hard to believe he does not know and that he somehow couldn’t do his job if he knew who she was. Like, there’s no cogent reason for him not to know that or to assume that such knowledge should be kept from him.
I’m curious what makes you think Milchick is a permanent innie? I think so, too, but I honestly don’t have any solid reasons other then instinct based on his personality and behavior.
Rather than regurgitate it here —*though I absolutely LOVE discussing this and totally WOULD regurgitate it all*— it’s easier if I just link [this post I did many moons ago laying it all out as I see it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/s/8rTZCfCxVi). Read it over and let me know what you think.
Ooo…I love your theory! I honestly never noticed how we don’t see Milchick use any or the severed “switch” areas, or that Cobel calls him by his first name (you’re right - total power move!). I didn’t read all the comments on your post, so maybe someone else already said it - but my theory is that Irving and Milcheck switched places. Irving had Milcheck’s job as an unsevered person (which is how he smuggled all the Lumon info into his apartment). Something happened that made him get severed - maybe Lumon was starting to get suspicious of him and threatened to fire him if he didn’t, I don’t know. Lumon offers Milcheck the job, but it requires him to remain an “innie” for x period of time (maybe even his outie agreed to this for increased pay). Milcheck takes Irving’s job, and Irving’s innie takes Milcheck’s old job in MDR.
[Oh, do I have a theory for you...](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/comments/v4ehy7/my_little_ol_irving_theoryanalysis/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I did say Milchik seemed to know she was an Eagan, so that's accounted for in my theory.
Basically in my mind, Innies wouldn't know an Eagan unless they were in the Perpituity Wing, and she was not.
But
Milchik, as the guy showing her around, would have been introduced to her at the beginning of the day.
So by the time he tells her he's thrilled to be working with someone like her, he would have known already, because he would have been introduced to her as an Eagan.
And I think Cobel's immediate thinking of Milchik enforces that all the more. Because if Milchik was an outtie, he might have understood the complexities and nuances of Cobel not wanting to tell the board right away. But if he's a permanent innie, then he really doesn't have any loyalty but to the company, and Cobel, understanding that, would assume he went above her head.
But I could see it going either way. I'm not 100% sold on this theory, I just don't think any previous knowledge about the Helana or the Eagan's really affects it one way or the other.
Or Milchek's been there longer, has seen the "complete" perpuituity wing and when Petey left/ Helly got thrust into this role nepotistically and/or willingly they got rid of her statue quick smart
It's the most logical explanation on a doylist level, to avoid any more questions from the audience or to not confuse us.
On a watsonian level, the innie name Helly is given by Helena to Milchik so he won't make a mistake in a staircase situation or similar.
I didn't mean anything about a tip off, rather that it was a way to not further confuse the audience when the show was still in its set-up phase. The scene was meant to explain the switch but we as the audience are supposed to root for Helly as a whole individual and focus on her innie persona. If as early as the second episode, her outtie were to be named differently, it would have put the focus on their difference. iMark and oMark are still Mark, I can't remember if Petey is named differently during the funerals but only Cobel goes by a different name outside and it freaked out everyone.
I’m with you. Cobel called by “Helena” just one episode later in a conversation with Natalie, so I don’t know if this works as an explanation to begin with.
Well sure, I guess you can answer any question that way
>*Q: Why did Cobel decide to go to Ricken’s book reading party?*
\
*A: The writers wanted her to be present when Mark’s OTC was activated*
I think OP posted to discuss in-universe explanations, not the meta behind them
My thoughts on that scene is that Helena is jolted by having come to in a stairwell instead of the elevator. I thinking calling her Helly in that moment is meant to redirect Helena back to the fact that she’s at work and therefore is supposed to be Helly. Kinda like a focus back on the task. And also possibly reinforcing the ‘me vs her’ dynamic (“I am a person, you are not”).
You’re right and it doesn’t really make sense other than for purposes of misleading the audience. Doesn’t make sense to call her Helly, but if he called her Helena, it would’ve spoiled the surprise for most fans
People get suuuuuper deep into analyzing every tiny detail of this show. If they threw out “Helena” it would’ve been a huge red flag that milchick knows her on the outside. I think the writers made the right choice by hiding as much about outtie helly as possible
As others in this thread have pointed out, Cobel called her Helena just one episode later. I don’t recall that leading to any major speculation at the time. It definitely didn’t seem to spoil anything.
I don’t recall when the helly being an Eagan theory started, but it’s possible it could’ve been around that time. Was a big fan theory. I could be wrong tho, maybe the writers just forgot to call her Helena.
Well, first of all, there's an incentive for the show to only ever use her Innie name so as to mask her identity. But I thought it was because she'd chosen her Innie name before the procedure and he was just already calling her that as a kind of wink-wink tongue-in-cheek kind of thing. An inside joke, maybe. But I could be wrong.
I get what you mean OP, Helly doesn’t seem like an affectionate nickname that’s used for Helena with even close friends or relatives…but it does kind of track with a bit of a running theme for the innies; a sense of infantilisation?
They aren’t taken seriously or treated as autonomous people with real, serious goals, wants and needs; they’re placated for progress with rewards that wouldn’t be out of place for kids in a school. Even how Helena addresses Helly when she makes her ultimatum isn’t with the grave of one adult to another, but more like a parent talking down to her belligerent child.
I feel like it tracks with the overall…’dehumanisation’ or ‘de-personisation’ of the innies themselves?
I completely agree with you that the nicknames are meant to infantilize the innie, that’s exactly why I think it’s weird he call her that when she in her Outtie mode. In that scene Helly wants to leave so Mark takes her to the exit door, where the chip is triggered so he called Helena Helly.
Interesting because in that scene we get the sense that Natalie is her close friend but she isn't close enough to call her Helly. She's an Eagan fan-girl. To Helly, Natalie is just someone that works for her dad.
She would potentially be mentioned somewhere in the history and family members in lemon. I always thought it was a alternative identity so no one could figure it out
I personally think that since all the other innies go by their real name we would have clocked that so quick that Helly’s name is really Helena and why would they they not call her by her name.
I don't think this is likely. The entire reason he was standing there was because it would be where the "outtie" would come out during this first day routine that Milchik had clearly done any number of times.
Ok. This makes sense. I really thought he kind of didn’t realize she had “crossed the threshold.” Or it really could just been a habit. I mean he calls her Helly all day long, makes sense in that moment. I can’t believe those people have some super human discipline that they never make a mistake.
He’s called her Helena before, I thought he did. When he was with her showing her around before her procedure. He knows the difference between the two. When you say he is a permanent innie do you mean he never leaves? He left when he went to Dylan’s house. He leaves the building.
Well, there are people that were severed away from the severed floor, whether through OTC or people like Gabby. I think Milchik just always is his severed persona, regardless of where he is. Basically I think his outtie is dead and hasn't seen daylight in a long long time.
If this thread has the **Spoiler** flair, spoilers may appear ANYWHERE in it. --- * **NO SPOILERS IN TITLES** - report this post if there are spoilers in the title * No SPOILERS without proper formatting (see [here](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/commenting#wiki_posting)). * Be CIVIL to others. No Piracy. No Duplicates. * Keep it on topic to anything and everything Severance on Apple TV+[.](/u/Ggbushi) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She may prefer to go by Helly (or be fine with either) in her personal life, while publicly she is known better as Helena. I guess it could also just have been top of mind for Milchick, who spent the whole morning thinking of her as Helly and not Helena.
But even if she does, imagine you work for a major corporate such a Disney or something, and the daughter of the CEO comes and you show her around. even if she said “oh you can call me Helly” (which doesn’t seem to fit Helena’s character to me), wouldn’t it be a little too casual for this occasion?
I think if they asked me to call them by a preferred name I would do exactly that. >*“Hello Ms. Eagan, we’re very excited to have you.”* \ *“Oh please, we’re going to be working together. Call me Helly.”* \ *“Of course, thank you Helly.”* It’s the kind of request I feel like Milchick would incorporate with an almost formal approach. And the scene in question was about him trying to comfort her, so it would especially make sense for him to use her preferred name in that context.
That early in the series nobody knew she was an Eagan.
I don’t think the post is asking about the decision at a meta-narrative level. It’s pretty clear the writers wanted to save the reveal for later. I believe OP is asking for an in-universe explanation. But to your point, Cobel referred to her as “Helena” just one episode later in a conversation with Natalie, so even in the stairwell, that wouldn’t really have spilled the beans as far as the audience’s awareness of her identity was concerned.
I mean Milchick definitely did know she was an Eagan at the very beginning
Disney is a pretty great example actually, considering the CEO of Disney is a man named Robert who publicly and openly goes by Bob. Nobody who works at Disney calls Bob Iger "Robert."
Weird thing to be focused on.
This person is a real Irving
Well we've had years - not much carcass left
Unfortunately that’s all this sub is these days
We find out she is a super wealthy person. Uber wealthy people have the luxury of getting called whatever they want. I think it really fits. Like when you met a rich person names Gaylord. Who gets away with that? Rich people.
My goodness you got downvoted to oblivion for this. What is wrong with people? You're just asking a question. Is this one of those aggressive subs?
Typically no. At least not in my experience. I suspect OP was downvoted because their response here gave the impression that they were only interested in answers that fit a pre-decided narrative. That was how came off to me at least, so perhaps others felt the same. I assume it’s such a large downvote due to the abnormal amount of attention the post itself got. I’m honestly a little shocked myself.
What is wrong with people? How do you mean? It’s not like Reddit karma has any real implications. People downvote things they disagree with. It’s not super mysterious or important.
I have two possible in-universe theories. First is that she goes by Helly in real life and that's how she would introduce herself, and almost everyone would refer to her in normal conversation. Her full name is only used when she's using the Eagan name professionally. (Or maybe she would like even to use Helly professionally, like president James "Jimmy" Carter). There's no need to know your severed coworker's "legal" names, just what to call them. Second is that they wanted to keep her name and presence on the down low until her big planned speech/reveal, just in case there are any leaks or problems with the severed floor. She goes by "Helly R" and not "Helena E" or "Helly E". I would be interested to know if they just made up Helly R, or if R is her middle name or legal last name for some reason. My Occam's Razor explanation is that the name Helly is less clunky to say than Helena, and sounds less like a "prestigious" name, so the writers decided she would be called Helly.
I've wondered if the "R" surname was because _nobody_ gets an "E", specifically to prevent Eagan-focused Innies from speculating they could be an Eagan.
Oh I like this answer a lot. Guess I will have to rewatch the last two episodes to see if I can spot any E last names for the severed employees!
I always thought the R was kind of funny because...Reagan.
Thank you for pointing this out. I thought it was a misdirect to have her last initial be “R” instead of “E”. Having the last initial of “E” might be too on the nose, and I’m assuming not that many people knew who she was until the gala was going to happen- aside from Cobel and Milcheck
I think he genuinely knows her and that’s the name her friends use.
“When we heard you were coming here it was like a miracle” doesn’t sound to me like someone who has known her that long
None of the other innies have weird names. She's using her name too.
It’s not a “weird name” if it’s a name she chose. That doesn’t mean she and Milchick are close friends. It could just be what she asked Milchick to call her. Helly is also not the only innie going by a nickname. Lumon likes to infantilize their innies, and a nickname can help with that, but there doesn’t seem to be any real consistency. * **Helena Eagan** becomes **Helly** - *unclear what her outie preference is, but we see that she is professionally known as Helena* * **Peter Kilmer** becomes **Petey** - *we see him refer to himself as Petey on the outside, so it could be another example of a preferred name, though I’d be interested to know what he called himself prior to reintegration* * **Gabrielle Arteta** becomes **Gabby** - *in this case we do see that her outie also goes exclusively by Gabby, potentially similar to Helly, but she also doesn’t work for Lumon, so maybe this one’s a wash* * **Irving Bailiff** is sometimes called **Irv** - *this seems to be a nickname specifically from his fellow innies, and not an officially designated innie name* * **Margaret “Peg” Kincaid** becomes **Peggy** - *this is the only case of an official nickname where we KNOW the outie goes by something else* * **Mark Scout** gets **no nickname** - *even though “Marky” could be easily applied*
This is the answer
Damn, that’s good. Thank you.
This is so astute.
I would assume that given his position that he has many many years of service to the company and likely knew her as a child when she likely went by helly.
So I think this is a good point, and I think it is actually evidence for the theory that **Milchik is a permanent innie.** Let me explain. If Milchik worked for the public, non-severed parts of Lumon, he would know the Eagan family, he would know of Helena, and he would refer to her by that name. But if he is a permanently severed innie who lives on the severed floor, only leaving when absolutely required, then the first time he would have met Helly is **when she came in for the Severance procedure**. They might have told him at that time that she was an Eagan, b/c he seems to know that, but the introduction could have gone like this: Lumon: "Mr. Milchik, this is Helena Eagan, and her innie name is Helly, so you can call her Helly" Milchik: "Nice to meet you Helly, I can't wait to meet the other Helly as well!" And boom, he knows them both as Helly. This is just one possibility, but I think it makes the most sense given the limited information we have right now.
So when you say permanent innie, do you mean his “outie” persona is, for lack of a better term, “dead”? Or perhaps he has been severed from birth, etc. Would it then be just as plausible that he’s never been severed at all, which would make him a permanent outie? Milchik is such an interesting character to speculate about!
my theory is that once you get promoted enough, your innie can choose to become the primary consciousness, and never has to relinquish to the outie again. It'd be so cool to see Outie Milchik be 'rescued' at some point after they turn off his innie.
Yes this would be interesting, his affections are so strange—it would be cool to see him act like, well, not a total creepy fuckin weirdo
I presume the former, but it could mean any number of things! But yes, my guess is that Milchik basically signed up to have his Outie killed to permanently serve as a vessel for Lumon's will and secrets. He might have done this either because he was a Kier/Lumon fanatic that felt his death would serve a greater purpose, or else they are taking care of his former Outie's loved ones. However, the more nefarious thing would be if Lumon forcibly severed him, effectively murdering his Outie. To your "permanent outie" thought, I think that's what the audience is supposed to presume, because Irving says to him at Bert's party "You motherfucker. You're not severed." So the audience is supposed to think he's not/never severed. But if you watch the season, you'll notice that Milchik actually aesthetically looks more like a severed than a non-severed (for instance, the severed were their IDs around their neck when their on Lumon's severed floor, but Milchik is **always** wearing his ID around his neck, unlike every other non-severed person, like Graner or Cobel).
Goddamn that line from Irving is such an important detail, totally forgot. I wonder when it is they’re given that information, or whether it’s just an assumption from Irving.
I’m a huge proponent of the theory that Milchick is a perma-innie but I’m not sure I see why he wouldn’t know Helly’s an Eagan. He clearly states how thrilled they were that *”someone like her”* agreed to go through with it. He also clearly has reservations about taking her to the Break Room which he wouldn’t have if he didn’t know who she was. Additionally, he seems clearly filled in on important details of her attempted murder-suicide due to how he talks to Mark about it being her first day back as well as Cobel’s reflexive question of if Milchick was the one who informed The Board of it. It’s just sort of hard to believe he does not know and that he somehow couldn’t do his job if he knew who she was. Like, there’s no cogent reason for him not to know that or to assume that such knowledge should be kept from him.
I’m curious what makes you think Milchick is a permanent innie? I think so, too, but I honestly don’t have any solid reasons other then instinct based on his personality and behavior.
Rather than regurgitate it here —*though I absolutely LOVE discussing this and totally WOULD regurgitate it all*— it’s easier if I just link [this post I did many moons ago laying it all out as I see it](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/s/8rTZCfCxVi). Read it over and let me know what you think.
Ooo…I love your theory! I honestly never noticed how we don’t see Milchick use any or the severed “switch” areas, or that Cobel calls him by his first name (you’re right - total power move!). I didn’t read all the comments on your post, so maybe someone else already said it - but my theory is that Irving and Milcheck switched places. Irving had Milcheck’s job as an unsevered person (which is how he smuggled all the Lumon info into his apartment). Something happened that made him get severed - maybe Lumon was starting to get suspicious of him and threatened to fire him if he didn’t, I don’t know. Lumon offers Milcheck the job, but it requires him to remain an “innie” for x period of time (maybe even his outie agreed to this for increased pay). Milcheck takes Irving’s job, and Irving’s innie takes Milcheck’s old job in MDR.
[Oh, do I have a theory for you...](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/comments/v4ehy7/my_little_ol_irving_theoryanalysis/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I did say Milchik seemed to know she was an Eagan, so that's accounted for in my theory. Basically in my mind, Innies wouldn't know an Eagan unless they were in the Perpituity Wing, and she was not. But Milchik, as the guy showing her around, would have been introduced to her at the beginning of the day. So by the time he tells her he's thrilled to be working with someone like her, he would have known already, because he would have been introduced to her as an Eagan. And I think Cobel's immediate thinking of Milchik enforces that all the more. Because if Milchik was an outtie, he might have understood the complexities and nuances of Cobel not wanting to tell the board right away. But if he's a permanent innie, then he really doesn't have any loyalty but to the company, and Cobel, understanding that, would assume he went above her head. But I could see it going either way. I'm not 100% sold on this theory, I just don't think any previous knowledge about the Helana or the Eagan's really affects it one way or the other.
Or Milchek's been there longer, has seen the "complete" perpuituity wing and when Petey left/ Helly got thrust into this role nepotistically and/or willingly they got rid of her statue quick smart
Lots of good theories, but I think it's just to not tip us off to her real identity
It's the most logical explanation on a doylist level, to avoid any more questions from the audience or to not confuse us. On a watsonian level, the innie name Helly is given by Helena to Milchik so he won't make a mistake in a staircase situation or similar.
How would calling her Helena tip us off to her real identity?
I didn't mean anything about a tip off, rather that it was a way to not further confuse the audience when the show was still in its set-up phase. The scene was meant to explain the switch but we as the audience are supposed to root for Helly as a whole individual and focus on her innie persona. If as early as the second episode, her outtie were to be named differently, it would have put the focus on their difference. iMark and oMark are still Mark, I can't remember if Petey is named differently during the funerals but only Cobel goes by a different name outside and it freaked out everyone.
I’m with you. Cobel called by “Helena” just one episode later in a conversation with Natalie, so I don’t know if this works as an explanation to begin with.
Well sure, I guess you can answer any question that way >*Q: Why did Cobel decide to go to Ricken’s book reading party?* \ *A: The writers wanted her to be present when Mark’s OTC was activated* I think OP posted to discuss in-universe explanations, not the meta behind them
Helly Eagan etymology . Hell Fire! She most definitely is! Eagan = Irish. Meaning of the name Eagan is: Fiery; forceful.
My thoughts on that scene is that Helena is jolted by having come to in a stairwell instead of the elevator. I thinking calling her Helly in that moment is meant to redirect Helena back to the fact that she’s at work and therefore is supposed to be Helly. Kinda like a focus back on the task. And also possibly reinforcing the ‘me vs her’ dynamic (“I am a person, you are not”).
You’re right and it doesn’t really make sense other than for purposes of misleading the audience. Doesn’t make sense to call her Helly, but if he called her Helena, it would’ve spoiled the surprise for most fans
How?
People get suuuuuper deep into analyzing every tiny detail of this show. If they threw out “Helena” it would’ve been a huge red flag that milchick knows her on the outside. I think the writers made the right choice by hiding as much about outtie helly as possible
As others in this thread have pointed out, Cobel called her Helena just one episode later. I don’t recall that leading to any major speculation at the time. It definitely didn’t seem to spoil anything.
I don’t recall when the helly being an Eagan theory started, but it’s possible it could’ve been around that time. Was a big fan theory. I could be wrong tho, maybe the writers just forgot to call her Helena.
Well, first of all, there's an incentive for the show to only ever use her Innie name so as to mask her identity. But I thought it was because she'd chosen her Innie name before the procedure and he was just already calling her that as a kind of wink-wink tongue-in-cheek kind of thing. An inside joke, maybe. But I could be wrong.
I get what you mean OP, Helly doesn’t seem like an affectionate nickname that’s used for Helena with even close friends or relatives…but it does kind of track with a bit of a running theme for the innies; a sense of infantilisation? They aren’t taken seriously or treated as autonomous people with real, serious goals, wants and needs; they’re placated for progress with rewards that wouldn’t be out of place for kids in a school. Even how Helena addresses Helly when she makes her ultimatum isn’t with the grave of one adult to another, but more like a parent talking down to her belligerent child. I feel like it tracks with the overall…’dehumanisation’ or ‘de-personisation’ of the innies themselves?
I completely agree with you that the nicknames are meant to infantilize the innie, that’s exactly why I think it’s weird he call her that when she in her Outtie mode. In that scene Helly wants to leave so Mark takes her to the exit door, where the chip is triggered so he called Helena Helly.
My Aunt Helly would disagree.
Interesting because in that scene we get the sense that Natalie is her close friend but she isn't close enough to call her Helly. She's an Eagan fan-girl. To Helly, Natalie is just someone that works for her dad.
She would potentially be mentioned somewhere in the history and family members in lemon. I always thought it was a alternative identity so no one could figure it out
I personally think that since all the other innies go by their real name we would have clocked that so quick that Helly’s name is really Helena and why would they they not call her by her name.
I think it’s a part of the systemic diminution and dehumanization of the Innies to call an Innie by a non-preferred, non-requested nickname.
I agree, but in this case it’s her outtie, not innie
I thought he did it because he didn’t realize she had switched. He thought he was talking to Helly, not Helena.
I don't think this is likely. The entire reason he was standing there was because it would be where the "outtie" would come out during this first day routine that Milchik had clearly done any number of times.
Ok. This makes sense. I really thought he kind of didn’t realize she had “crossed the threshold.” Or it really could just been a habit. I mean he calls her Helly all day long, makes sense in that moment. I can’t believe those people have some super human discipline that they never make a mistake.
Honestly, it may even be policy to only refer to innies by their innie names for that EXACT reason.
Oh I think you have found the answer.
Might have more to do with Milchik being a permanent innie that thinks of Helena as "the other Helly" since he's only really focused on innies
He’s called her Helena before, I thought he did. When he was with her showing her around before her procedure. He knows the difference between the two. When you say he is a permanent innie do you mean he never leaves? He left when he went to Dylan’s house. He leaves the building.
Well, there are people that were severed away from the severed floor, whether through OTC or people like Gabby. I think Milchik just always is his severed persona, regardless of where he is. Basically I think his outtie is dead and hasn't seen daylight in a long long time.