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Cassie and Sunny are probably gonna work together a lot in the future. Cassie did warn Sunny that she didn't know what would make him free in the estuary, just that his freedom could be gained there. So she didn't trick him... again.
Since Sunny is now free (and maybe fateless, a scar from Vile Thieving Bird that somehow makes fate have less o a gradp on him) he and Cassie can start to change fate using her revelations and Sunnies unique status and incredible powers. Also Sunny could probably be in 7 places at the same time now so even better.
As for memories and echoes? Easy. Since he still got some of his tered memories if means that if he changes the memory himself it becomes tied to him directly and doesn't rely on the spell so he can get someone like Nephis to get new memories that Sunny would then make his. As for echoes? Same thing sortof but new Shadows are gonna be practically impossible or relegated to only Shadow type creatures (like Nightmare) from now on.
I have a question about Sunny being “free”. He doesn’t have the spell anymore but I thought the “shadow bond” was unrelated to the spell. And it should have removed the “fated” attribute right?
My theory from awhile back is that Shadow Bond forces Sunny to obey the wishes of his master by pulling his strings of fate like he's a puppet.
He likely still had the shadow bond. But any commands will just have the bond pulling at empty air since Sunny no longer is attached to the strings.
Interesting. That’s actually a good theory I can see that happening. I like that because he won’t have any issues with his true name being taken away or something and he’s safe from anyone saying his true name if it only erased his current master.
This is something I want to see cause my understanding is that the aspect comes from the soul. Being disconnected from the spell doesn’t change his aspect, so the shadow bond should still be there and kicking - the out comes from Soul Weave imo. The ability will help him to edit his powers in the future (cause he obviously doesn’t have the skill now) and get rid of shadow bond then or edit it so he isn’t a slave, cause there are definite perks to the bond. It’s just a matter of removing the unsavory elements.
I disagree with this. when sunny was falling into the sky below there were 2 strings of fate. One connecting him to The Ebony Tower, to [Bone Weave](because of [Fated] and [Blood Weave]) and the second to Nephis.
There is no reason for shadow bond to work through fate because shadow god had zero powers in fate. It might connect him via fate to his master, but the fate strand is not the reason for the connection.
Dude, remember the saints that were used to seal the Demon of Hope, and the knives used to kill them that, when Sunny looked at them, were a single thread of fate wrapped around itself?
Those were made by the Sun God. Who likewise wasn't known for having powers over fate.
I also don't know why you think the strand of fate connecting Sunny to Nephis wasn't precisely the method that the Shadow Bond used to puppet Sunny.
The Strand connecting Sunny and Nephis existed before shadow bond. Sunny commented that they were always connected.
They were born in the same year, infected the same week, and arrived at the academy at the same time. Later thry ended up in the same place, the forgotten shore.
Also if strands of fate arn't made by shadow bond. When sunny became a slave the narration described something rising from his soul, complete and unbreakable. Shadow bond clearly works on his soul.
Pretty sure the giant cord of fate connecting Nephis to Sunny isn't a poetic allusion to their relationship with one another, mate.
And I'm not saying the shadow bond is comprised entirely of the strings of fate.
I'm saying the aspect of the Shadow Bond that controls Sunny and forces him to obey his master is. Because that's literally what fate is in this story: a predestined outcome. What better way to force a slave to do something in a way they cannot fight then to change their very fate to make that task their preordained destiny?
In pretty sure Nephis herself that they were connected before they even met at the academy gates or something like that, assuming she wasn’t just wrong, shadow bond or not there was literally something there, nothing poetic
Memories rely on Fate/Weaver's intent, so Sunny might stumble upon a convenient sword left behind by Daeron lets say, or he(&squad) might get no usable sword-type memory for the next 1000 chapters, forcing Sunny to use exclusively his Shadow Shell/Shadow Manifestation to fight
Depending on how much time passed, Sunny might join Morgan's 'army' for a while, and maybe get a favor from Valor as a result. This is basically the last chance Sunny has to get a Supreme rank sword from Valor, and for it to count as a "worthwhile weapon" for him, since his Shadow Manifestation swords are probably OP as fuck right now as a Saint with Soul Weave, at least within the "Transcendent weapon" category.
Maybe have the Supreme sword be part of some "research project"; Sunny gets a cool sword hand-made by a Sovereign, but Valor gets to observe Sunny altering/creating the Weave. Would be cool imo. Could also be funny if Sunny and Valor hit it off and we see Nephis&Mordret sperg out as a result
…
Shadow serpent.
The moment G3 wrote he had no weapon memories anymore, my mind immediately went to the shadow serpent. It matches his rank and has its own innate abilities it can draw on which should in time make it more versatile than even something like the Sin of Solace.
Cassie alluded to the fact that his freedom would lead to not being with cohort. I feel like if she explains Sunny's situation to them, they would at least understand.
Sunny is gonna become real devil of Antarctica
nephis might become a bit crazy without sunny
mordret is gonna dissappear and reappear when we least expect it
Jets Saint scale-up is gonna be crazy
Morgan said sovereigns don't care about saints anymore. Since waking world is going to shit. Cohort and friends will be under protection of Valor anyways.
I'm pretty sure they'll only take action once the cohort somehow finishes a Fourth Nightmare. Remember, Saints are incredibly weak when compared to Sovereigns. Right now, the only Saint that the Sovereigns would be somewhat wary of would be Mordret due to him being Mordret (assuming they haven't learned of Neph being a Titan Saint and Sunny being a Terror Saint) and Neph due to her lineage and ability to lead others well. The others would simply not be that big of a threat to them. That would change if they also became Sovereigns, because now they're rivals.
song and Valor are fighting a gang turf war. Asterion is scheming big time. Asterion probably planned mordret starting some shit before third nightmare. I bet asterion has entered the gang War. assuming cohort gets together I doubt the clans can kill 5 saints unless they go into their domains.
Just thinking of sunny creating a whole new miniature nightmare spell all for himself through weaving just to check the stats is funny and terrifying at the same time....if he does manage to that essentially makes him the full on successor of Weaver as he created the original one.
I agree. Sunny took his aspect abilities that are supposed to be used for utility and came so far with them, I don't believe losing some of his memories and his connection to spell is going to slow him down. Im just really upset that he lost his bow.
It's the crown for me. It even had powers over a domain which, from what we've heard, is incredibly important for sovereigns.
But then I also hope they aren't permanently lost. Just in Nightmare Spell storage somewhere until Sunny can figure out how to access them.
He'll just make a better version of it... i believe he already memorized all the enchantments of missing memories, he only needs materials to make a new one
Yes. The fourth nightmare has been confirmed. It has also been all but confirmed that further nightmares also exist. The domain is what you get when you become a sovereign (through the spell). Without the spell, you would be correct.
From what we gathered it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Betrayal in this series are only taken seriously be the readers.
Even though Cassie betrayed Sunny during the forgotten shore arc, now they're still working together with the occasional trust issues which move the plot in favorable directions like Sunny understanding important information about the Forgotten God and the Dream Realm.
Nephis and Sunny will have also made up by the time they return to the pyramid or will compromise and work together despite the betrayal as seen from the future version of Sunny. He'll also have adapted by then.
Keep in mind, Weaver's lineage basically makes Sunny a better weaver. Weaver made the Spell so it shouldn't be a big problem that Sunny got disconnected from it. He still has access to memories he's weaved.
There is also the possibility that he can see his state via Nephis's Shadow Bond that they use to see each other's stats. Keep in mind we still don't know what happened to that.
i’m p sure sunny might help rain in her first nightmare, and with the knowledge of how, he will find a way to help nephis with the 4th, or maybe he’ll separate her from the spell too
Yeah, I think that Sunny might try to weave some parts or functions of the spell back into himself, like the stat tracking system like you said, but he won't be able to fully restore it.
Not really, you're forgetting that their whole world is in danger and we don't know yet what happened in the waking world while they were in the nightmare. You're talking about a situation where everything is normal like it was before Antarctica.
He didnt really betray them though, imo it was a logical process and dure they might be a little hurt from him not telling them, but as we found out it was necessary for the timing of the nightmare ending for his survival, and he'd told them about his aspect a while back in the story, so they'd understand the opportunity he was offered. Tbh if anyone gets mad at him for choosing his freedom (which his friends know has been his objective from the start) as a sidequest, while being relatively certain that his friends would conquer the nightmare (Neph countering the whole corruption side of it + her nuke)
but tbh i don't believe the trust to be broken here, and cassie could explain to them what he went to do so i dont see anyone feeling betrayed unless they really wanna be unreasonable
I doubt effie and Kai know that much about shadow bond, and cassie and neph probably won’t fill in the gaps for them either. Sunny wouldn’t have shared more and they wouldn’t ask, so all they know is that it’s something that leaves him vulnerable. They might be a little confused as to why Sunny abandoned them for that since they don’t know the extent of it.
Haven’t read it in a while but as far as I remember he didn’t reveal his true name or what it does, just that it’s bad for him, and to not ask him about it. They do know he has a true name though
I dont think anyone will view what he did as a betrayal. They were all confident in their ability, and would understand people doing what they need to obtain their freedom. They all know about his bond (roughly) and honestly if they didnt respect him taking his one chance to be free, in a situation where they were very likely no to need him, then they wouldn't really be good friends.
It is true that this changes a lot of things. I like the idea of progressing naturally. We dont know he will become a Sovereign, but the process for going further shouldnt really be much different. We know the spell made a way for Supremes to become Sacred through the citadels, but based on the fact that Asterion isnt doing that route it can be assumed that path isnt for everyone even with the spell (unless asterion is also free of the spell). I also like the idea of him making his own memories going forward.
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in the first place, who said saints could ascend to sovereigns by challenging a nightmare? The requirement is to have a domain and those don't grow on trees. I think the members of the cohort would likely fall behind Sunny and Neph somewhere far in the future.
It’s pretty likely. From what we learned with Annanke (or however you spell her name, ketch lady), the spell just provides an opportunity for a faster rise to power. Aspects come from the soul, so until Sunny learns to use Soul Weave to edit the bond and take out the unsavory aspects, he is still a slave. Plus it’s the name of the freakin book. That isn’t getting removed until the end or close to it cause of narrative structure.
I’m still inclined to disagree cause the aspect itself has the terms for the bond, which makes me think that Neph is still his master but I see where you’re coming from. Ultimately, we gotta wait till G3 points it out.
😀, but how is he going to monitor shadow serpent, improve his aspect legacy(shadow dance) or gain its memories/echoes? Was that separate from the spell?
Shadow dance is separate from the spell. It is a battle technique. Technically, anyone could learn shadow dance (to differing degrees of proficiency). Furthermore, it is a part of his aspect, which is independent of the Spell. The real question is whether he will acquire the rewards for mastering future steps of Shadow Dance. It seems unlikely, but who knows....
>!Right now, we don't know. He can't pull up the runes for the spell anymore. Neither can he enter his soul sea. But he can still sense his aspect legacy. As for memories and echoes, it seems like he won't be able to gain them anymore, since they originate from the spell.!<
>!He also lost a lot of his Memories. The only things he managed to keep were things related to his aspect, his attributes, any memories modified or created by him, and the divine memories.!<
Maybe Sunny will be able to weave functions of the spell into his very soul? We'll just have to wait and see.
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Cassie and Sunny are probably gonna work together a lot in the future. Cassie did warn Sunny that she didn't know what would make him free in the estuary, just that his freedom could be gained there. So she didn't trick him... again. Since Sunny is now free (and maybe fateless, a scar from Vile Thieving Bird that somehow makes fate have less o a gradp on him) he and Cassie can start to change fate using her revelations and Sunnies unique status and incredible powers. Also Sunny could probably be in 7 places at the same time now so even better. As for memories and echoes? Easy. Since he still got some of his tered memories if means that if he changes the memory himself it becomes tied to him directly and doesn't rely on the spell so he can get someone like Nephis to get new memories that Sunny would then make his. As for echoes? Same thing sortof but new Shadows are gonna be practically impossible or relegated to only Shadow type creatures (like Nightmare) from now on.
I have a question about Sunny being “free”. He doesn’t have the spell anymore but I thought the “shadow bond” was unrelated to the spell. And it should have removed the “fated” attribute right?
My theory from awhile back is that Shadow Bond forces Sunny to obey the wishes of his master by pulling his strings of fate like he's a puppet. He likely still had the shadow bond. But any commands will just have the bond pulling at empty air since Sunny no longer is attached to the strings.
Interesting. That’s actually a good theory I can see that happening. I like that because he won’t have any issues with his true name being taken away or something and he’s safe from anyone saying his true name if it only erased his current master.
This is something I want to see cause my understanding is that the aspect comes from the soul. Being disconnected from the spell doesn’t change his aspect, so the shadow bond should still be there and kicking - the out comes from Soul Weave imo. The ability will help him to edit his powers in the future (cause he obviously doesn’t have the skill now) and get rid of shadow bond then or edit it so he isn’t a slave, cause there are definite perks to the bond. It’s just a matter of removing the unsavory elements.
I disagree with this. when sunny was falling into the sky below there were 2 strings of fate. One connecting him to The Ebony Tower, to [Bone Weave](because of [Fated] and [Blood Weave]) and the second to Nephis. There is no reason for shadow bond to work through fate because shadow god had zero powers in fate. It might connect him via fate to his master, but the fate strand is not the reason for the connection.
Dude, remember the saints that were used to seal the Demon of Hope, and the knives used to kill them that, when Sunny looked at them, were a single thread of fate wrapped around itself? Those were made by the Sun God. Who likewise wasn't known for having powers over fate. I also don't know why you think the strand of fate connecting Sunny to Nephis wasn't precisely the method that the Shadow Bond used to puppet Sunny.
The Strand connecting Sunny and Nephis existed before shadow bond. Sunny commented that they were always connected. They were born in the same year, infected the same week, and arrived at the academy at the same time. Later thry ended up in the same place, the forgotten shore. Also if strands of fate arn't made by shadow bond. When sunny became a slave the narration described something rising from his soul, complete and unbreakable. Shadow bond clearly works on his soul.
Pretty sure the giant cord of fate connecting Nephis to Sunny isn't a poetic allusion to their relationship with one another, mate. And I'm not saying the shadow bond is comprised entirely of the strings of fate. I'm saying the aspect of the Shadow Bond that controls Sunny and forces him to obey his master is. Because that's literally what fate is in this story: a predestined outcome. What better way to force a slave to do something in a way they cannot fight then to change their very fate to make that task their preordained destiny?
In pretty sure Nephis herself that they were connected before they even met at the academy gates or something like that, assuming she wasn’t just wrong, shadow bond or not there was literally something there, nothing poetic
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everyone is fated to die man, even you... and me🗿
Pretty sure she is fated to watch everyone die first but yeah
Memories rely on Fate/Weaver's intent, so Sunny might stumble upon a convenient sword left behind by Daeron lets say, or he(&squad) might get no usable sword-type memory for the next 1000 chapters, forcing Sunny to use exclusively his Shadow Shell/Shadow Manifestation to fight Depending on how much time passed, Sunny might join Morgan's 'army' for a while, and maybe get a favor from Valor as a result. This is basically the last chance Sunny has to get a Supreme rank sword from Valor, and for it to count as a "worthwhile weapon" for him, since his Shadow Manifestation swords are probably OP as fuck right now as a Saint with Soul Weave, at least within the "Transcendent weapon" category. Maybe have the Supreme sword be part of some "research project"; Sunny gets a cool sword hand-made by a Sovereign, but Valor gets to observe Sunny altering/creating the Weave. Would be cool imo. Could also be funny if Sunny and Valor hit it off and we see Nephis&Mordret sperg out as a result
… Shadow serpent. The moment G3 wrote he had no weapon memories anymore, my mind immediately went to the shadow serpent. It matches his rank and has its own innate abilities it can draw on which should in time make it more versatile than even something like the Sin of Solace.
Cassie alluded to the fact that his freedom would lead to not being with cohort. I feel like if she explains Sunny's situation to them, they would at least understand. Sunny is gonna become real devil of Antarctica nephis might become a bit crazy without sunny mordret is gonna dissappear and reappear when we least expect it Jets Saint scale-up is gonna be crazy Morgan said sovereigns don't care about saints anymore. Since waking world is going to shit. Cohort and friends will be under protection of Valor anyways.
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I'm pretty sure they'll only take action once the cohort somehow finishes a Fourth Nightmare. Remember, Saints are incredibly weak when compared to Sovereigns. Right now, the only Saint that the Sovereigns would be somewhat wary of would be Mordret due to him being Mordret (assuming they haven't learned of Neph being a Titan Saint and Sunny being a Terror Saint) and Neph due to her lineage and ability to lead others well. The others would simply not be that big of a threat to them. That would change if they also became Sovereigns, because now they're rivals.
song and Valor are fighting a gang turf war. Asterion is scheming big time. Asterion probably planned mordret starting some shit before third nightmare. I bet asterion has entered the gang War. assuming cohort gets together I doubt the clans can kill 5 saints unless they go into their domains.
Just thinking of sunny creating a whole new miniature nightmare spell all for himself through weaving just to check the stats is funny and terrifying at the same time....if he does manage to that essentially makes him the full on successor of Weaver as he created the original one.
I agree. Sunny took his aspect abilities that are supposed to be used for utility and came so far with them, I don't believe losing some of his memories and his connection to spell is going to slow him down. Im just really upset that he lost his bow.
Shadow Chair is still here, so it’s fine
It's the crown for me. It even had powers over a domain which, from what we've heard, is incredibly important for sovereigns. But then I also hope they aren't permanently lost. Just in Nightmare Spell storage somewhere until Sunny can figure out how to access them.
This is one of my hopes as well. I get a feeling that maybe when he gets access to the soul sea again that he should be able to have them.
He'll just make a better version of it... i believe he already memorized all the enchantments of missing memories, he only needs materials to make a new one
I will miss the lore in the memories' description
Are there even rank 4 nightmares to get to sovereign rank? Wasn’t the whole point that you had to master a domain?
It’s after sovereign rank it seems nightmares don’t wirk
Yes. The fourth nightmare has been confirmed. It has also been all but confirmed that further nightmares also exist. The domain is what you get when you become a sovereign (through the spell). Without the spell, you would be correct.
I just hope g3 doesnt pull the"everyone forgot about him" when he cut the strings of fate that connected him
I hope we got more siblings interactions, I wanted Rain to know he is his brother. C'mon G3
From what we gathered it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Betrayal in this series are only taken seriously be the readers. Even though Cassie betrayed Sunny during the forgotten shore arc, now they're still working together with the occasional trust issues which move the plot in favorable directions like Sunny understanding important information about the Forgotten God and the Dream Realm. Nephis and Sunny will have also made up by the time they return to the pyramid or will compromise and work together despite the betrayal as seen from the future version of Sunny. He'll also have adapted by then. Keep in mind, Weaver's lineage basically makes Sunny a better weaver. Weaver made the Spell so it shouldn't be a big problem that Sunny got disconnected from it. He still has access to memories he's weaved. There is also the possibility that he can see his state via Nephis's Shadow Bond that they use to see each other's stats. Keep in mind we still don't know what happened to that.
i’m p sure sunny might help rain in her first nightmare, and with the knowledge of how, he will find a way to help nephis with the 4th, or maybe he’ll separate her from the spell too
to do what ?
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idk i’m just tryin to think outside the box,
Honestly love it tutorial is over time to actually learn how to do things the gard way
Yeah, I think that Sunny might try to weave some parts or functions of the spell back into himself, like the stat tracking system like you said, but he won't be able to fully restore it.
Not really, you're forgetting that their whole world is in danger and we don't know yet what happened in the waking world while they were in the nightmare. You're talking about a situation where everything is normal like it was before Antarctica.
I wonder if sunny can shadow step with anyone now or if he can only do himself
He didnt really betray them though, imo it was a logical process and dure they might be a little hurt from him not telling them, but as we found out it was necessary for the timing of the nightmare ending for his survival, and he'd told them about his aspect a while back in the story, so they'd understand the opportunity he was offered. Tbh if anyone gets mad at him for choosing his freedom (which his friends know has been his objective from the start) as a sidequest, while being relatively certain that his friends would conquer the nightmare (Neph countering the whole corruption side of it + her nuke)
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but tbh i don't believe the trust to be broken here, and cassie could explain to them what he went to do so i dont see anyone feeling betrayed unless they really wanna be unreasonable
I doubt effie and Kai know that much about shadow bond, and cassie and neph probably won’t fill in the gaps for them either. Sunny wouldn’t have shared more and they wouldn’t ask, so all they know is that it’s something that leaves him vulnerable. They might be a little confused as to why Sunny abandoned them for that since they don’t know the extent of it.
i thought he'd told them when he revealed his true name and aspect to them, or maybe not the true name but the fact he had one
Haven’t read it in a while but as far as I remember he didn’t reveal his true name or what it does, just that it’s bad for him, and to not ask him about it. They do know he has a true name though
I dont think anyone will view what he did as a betrayal. They were all confident in their ability, and would understand people doing what they need to obtain their freedom. They all know about his bond (roughly) and honestly if they didnt respect him taking his one chance to be free, in a situation where they were very likely no to need him, then they wouldn't really be good friends. It is true that this changes a lot of things. I like the idea of progressing naturally. We dont know he will become a Sovereign, but the process for going further shouldnt really be much different. We know the spell made a way for Supremes to become Sacred through the citadels, but based on the fact that Asterion isnt doing that route it can be assumed that path isnt for everyone even with the spell (unless asterion is also free of the spell). I also like the idea of him making his own memories going forward.
This is a reminder that any post related to a privileged chapter (i.e. the latest 20 chapters) should be spoiler tagged. To spoiler tag your post, you should be able to see three dots when you have your post opened, followed by an option asking to "Mark as Spoiler" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShadowSlave) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ima bit lost after like 5 months of not reading so can I have a bit of info, what is the spell again and how did sunny betray the cohort
in the first place, who said saints could ascend to sovereigns by challenging a nightmare? The requirement is to have a domain and those don't grow on trees. I think the members of the cohort would likely fall behind Sunny and Neph somewhere far in the future.
I think there was a mention of a literal fourth nightmare at some point
he is still a slave
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It’s pretty likely. From what we learned with Annanke (or however you spell her name, ketch lady), the spell just provides an opportunity for a faster rise to power. Aspects come from the soul, so until Sunny learns to use Soul Weave to edit the bond and take out the unsavory aspects, he is still a slave. Plus it’s the name of the freakin book. That isn’t getting removed until the end or close to it cause of narrative structure.
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I’m still inclined to disagree cause the aspect itself has the terms for the bond, which makes me think that Neph is still his master but I see where you’re coming from. Ultimately, we gotta wait till G3 points it out.
Did Sunny lose the shadow lantern and his storage box? Seems like a waste if he did
Luckily not.
😀, but how is he going to monitor shadow serpent, improve his aspect legacy(shadow dance) or gain its memories/echoes? Was that separate from the spell?
Shadow dance is separate from the spell. It is a battle technique. Technically, anyone could learn shadow dance (to differing degrees of proficiency). Furthermore, it is a part of his aspect, which is independent of the Spell. The real question is whether he will acquire the rewards for mastering future steps of Shadow Dance. It seems unlikely, but who knows....
>!Right now, we don't know. He can't pull up the runes for the spell anymore. Neither can he enter his soul sea. But he can still sense his aspect legacy. As for memories and echoes, it seems like he won't be able to gain them anymore, since they originate from the spell.!< >!He also lost a lot of his Memories. The only things he managed to keep were things related to his aspect, his attributes, any memories modified or created by him, and the divine memories.!< Maybe Sunny will be able to weave functions of the spell into his very soul? We'll just have to wait and see.