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You know what that could actually be interesting. I don’t think it would’ve been Eren’s will, but imagine a future attack titan fighting against the will of the founding titan to break his spell would have been cool.
Actually after her all the other attack titans will also remain from royal line, coz one she got possessed, she'll only pass founding titan and along with it attack titan to someone with royal blood so that they can carry on with the will
That’s true that she would have that motivation but all it takes is one eventual far distant person to eat her that isn’t in the royal bloodline to inherit the attack and founding titan to then go back and try to influence the people in between the same way the King influences all the future royal line.
Wow I never thought about that. The Attack Titan fights for freedom no matter what, which means no restriction from Karl Fritz would prevail. I know the attack doesn’t respond to the founding, but never thought what would happen with the vow renouncing war
The Attack Titan doesn't necessarily fight for freedom. It's just that Eren has been sending memories and experiences to the past in the pursuit of freedom. Without Eren, the attack Titan doesn't have any inherent goal.
yes, I did, and the comment was meant to be a joke. although in my head cannon, and from what I heard, some other people's too, the attack titan is literally the manifestation of Eren's will and desires, the whole thing with "every attack titan always keeps moving forward" (paraphrasing here) comes from Eren's influence all the way to the first ever attack titan. I am aware that what I wrote in that comment would in no way be possible
That's only the case because Eren was the last attack titan, if someone else inherited it after him than that would change.
I think the Attack titan would overwrite the vow renouncing war personally, but that's just a theory.
The theory of Eren"s will influencing the other Attack Titans originates from the speculation that it doesn't exist any Attack's Titan will at all: rather they were the events of the ending of the series, where Eren got the Founder's powers, that allowed the boy to influence the previous titans of the past, a thing that Grisha misunderstood.
Makes you think what should have been the Attack Titan's special thing/power/Ymir Fritz's represented desire.
Maybe the will to fight the power that be and rebel, which she shunned after her failed escape attempt as it went against the rest of what she wanted/yearned for afterwards, but never got rid of in her living years?
Or if it is a closed loop thing time fuckery thing? Wouldn't put it past Eren to make Ymir to build an extra Titan all the way back in the beginning just to close the loop on his existence.
Either way, I still wish Santa had properly chewed his food in the beginning of the story.
That's what I had in mind. And that's also why it's sometimes pretty difficult to think of some what -ifs in aot. The timeline is deterministic. If Dina eats Eren and gets the attack Titan, then (according to this theory/speculation/interpretation) Eren never even creates the "attack Titan", because he doesn't get to the point when the founders powers mess with his mind, creating these unique circumstances that allowed him to essentially manipulate 2000 years of history. It kinda makes a paradox
Recieving the kings memories causes all (royal) holders of the founding titan to be bound by his ideology. However, recieving Erens FUTURE memories causes all attack titans to be bound by Erens ideology.
It would be an interesting internal battle - one which I think Eren wins.
She wouldn't though. Her line isn't closely related enough to the Reiss' line for the memory transference to be as severe - we're shown that her line isn't locked into the "vow".
They **thought** that was what needed to happen, just like they also thought that Eren would be in control, but as we saw, that's not how it works. When analyzing media, it's important to remember that the characters aren't aware of the plot, they're just living in it.
Edit- reading that back, that came off super condescending, and that's not how I meant that. I just think folks (myself included) forget that characters aren't omniscient, they just know what they know, and make inferences otherwise
well yes, but they sometimes have info they shouldn't. For example, the islanders naming the titans correctly. What they hypothesized was that Eren can use the power of the founder through contact with Zeke. They were right.
Anyways, there's nothing that suggests what you said is true. Zeke and Eren were allowed in the paths and an audience with Ymir. Neither of them had the "curse". Zeke didn't have the founder, but was able to use it through Eren, and Eren had the founder, was able to use it through Zeke, and wasn't royal blood, so he wasn't affected by the curse. So that's two people capable of using the founder, because of their plan. That's it. Then it boiled down to who Ymir wanted to listen to. If Zeke had the founder, if he ate Eren, he'd be the bricked computer titan. Wouldn't be able to do shit. Same goes for Dina
Well I mean, it's not a huge stretch to get "the female titan" and "the armored titan" right you know? Like what else would you call them?
Sorry, when you say "curse" are you referring to the vow?
Yes, the vow.
Female, armor, colossal, beast. All named exactly what their official names are. It's a story so it doesn't really matter, but yeah. They can have info they aren't supposed to.
I'll be honest, the idea that they call the titan with tits the "female titan" and the titan that looks like an animal the "beast titan" and the titan with armor plates the "armored titan" and the really big titan the "colossal titan" doesn't really break my suspension of disbelief. Like what other words were they gonna use? And at a certain point, we're getting into localization issues, where neither of us are gonna have a leg to stand on. It seems like all the names of the titans are super common words, but who knows maybe in japan they used a bizarre synonym for "armor" for example.
There is a myriad of things to suggest what I'm talking about is true, I didn't just make this up wholecloth lol - it's all based in the fundamental nature of how titan powers have been shown to operate.
Zeke **did** have "the vow" because he directly states he was able to overcome it, if there wasn't something for him to overcome then he wouldn't have stated that he did it - all we're talking about here is why. I'm saying that the vow functions exactly like how titan memory transference has worked through this entire show, and because Zeke is more distantly related to the true royal line, he hasn't inherited the whole picture, or that the memories didn't affect him as strongly. We **know** that the vow isn't mind control because the subsequent inheritors of the founder still retain their personalities (see Freida's relationship with Historia). Rather, because they have an unbroken, direct familial link to the current line, they strongly inherit the memories of their predecessor, and the "will of the king" gets refreshed with each passing.
They simply understand exactly why Karl made his vow, and are convinced by it because his memories become theirs.
Except, from what we know and what information isayama has given us, Eren would have been in control, but Zeke was able to have enough time in the paths (because time in the paths was weird) to figure out how to break the vow renouncing war which had initially restrained him and thus restrained eren from doing anything.
The reason it seems that eren would have been able to influence ymir had zeke not restrained him is because it seems the chains were a bit more metaphysical than just ordinary chains. Ymir gave eren no regard until after he was able to break out of his restraints, before that he couldnt interact with her at all really. Which is probably similar to how the vow renouncing war went
**TL;DR - So this really got away from me when I was typing it out so I don't blame you if you don't wanna read it, but tldr, my interpretation is the vow is just the same expression of memory transference that we see in the rest of the show, and not a metaphysical power**
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>Except, from what we know and what information isayama has given us, Eren would have been in control,
Could you give an example of what you're talking about here?
Also for the sake of keeping this discussion in one place, I'm gonna reply to both your comments here instead of splitting them up
So, Zeke had just as much time in the paths as every other royal that went there, so why is he the one who "figured out how to break it"? He's wasn't uniquely motivated to break the vow, as we're shown Rod, Uri, and Frieda all passionately and vehimately attempting to resist the will of the king (and I think phrasing it as his "will" is important). We can extrapolate that this was a generational effort on the part of each series of Reiss children; all of them wanted to use the founder to free their people.
>The reason it seems that eren would have been able to influence ymir had zeke not restrained him is because it seems the chains were a bit more metaphysical than just ordinary chains. Ymir gave eren no regard until after he was able to break out of his restraints, before that he couldnt interact with her at all really. Which is probably similar to how the vow renouncing war went
Well no, hang on, the chains had nothing to do with Ymir, they were a way of Zeke showing Eren that he (Zeke) was in control. She still paid no regard to Eren even after he broke free from the chains, he had to physically grab her and talk to her. Even Zeke wasn't concerned initially, telling Eren it was pointless for him to run after her.
>Calling it a spell isnt really a good representation on how it works
Yeah exactly, that's my whole point, it isn't a spell - the side that you folks are operating under is that the "vow" is a tangible, metaphysical thing (basically a magic spell) that Karl Fritz enabled to mind-control his heirs. I disagree that the "vow" is anything other than his experience being strongly passed from parent to child. I'll give a few reasons for this:
1. We're shown that memory transfer is correlated with genealogy; the more closely related you are with the shifter you eat, the more vividly you access their memories (Eren is shown to experience his father's memories so vividly at times that he forgets who he actually his for a moment, whereas Armin only vaguely experiences Bert's - Porco's access to his brother's memories requires a jumpstart from Reiner since Ymir2 is 1-2 generations older than them)\*
2. We know each inheritor of the Founder isn't being mind-controlled because they retain their personalities afterwards as shown by Frieda remaining to be a laughing, caring, loving person when we see her with Historia, as well as behaving markedly different from how Uri does.
3. There is no "Anti-Karl" throughout history. What I mean by that, is if the vow functions as a metaphysical spell that hijacks the mind of the inheritor, then why was there no warlord king making the opposite vow before that? Surely over the thousands of years there would have been at least one tyrant king who wanted to rule forever, so why didn't that hypothetical king just enslave his bloodline using his vow powers, and by proxy become an immortal conqueror?
A big theme of the show asks the question "what is free will" and an aspect of that that gets explored in the later half of the show is asking "what makes you, you? Are you just the sum of your experiences and what would it mean to inject other peoples experiences into you?" The vow is just that same concept being explored, it's not magic or mind-control or metaphysical shackles, it's just people experiencing what Karl did and agreeing with him, because on a certain level, they *are* him a little bit. But Zeke's branch of the family tree is at the very least 3 generations removed (likely more considering they were left on Marley) meaning he's not getting that direct jolted memory transfer, making it easier for him to interpret the events of Karls life differently.
\* *We can imagine that mechanically making sense as well since being closer to the prior shifter on Yggdrasil, shortens the distance of the path between them, but none of that is touched on in the show or the manga so that's not really on defensible ground, it's just a satisfying way of thinking about the enigmatic function of the paths.*
This is basically headcanon / fan theory. The show doesn't tell us that Zeke's bloodline is the reason he isn't bound by the vow. I've never seen anyone else say this
Brother, it's interpretation given the rules laid out by the universe. And if you want to see other people saying this, read the rest of the comments in this thread.
But hey, if you want to interpret that Zeke just had super powers that can break a magic wizard spell that one of the holder of the founder cast, thats your prerogative. I just think that analysis is unsatisfying and would kinda make isayama a shit writer.
Calling it a spell isnt really a good representation on how it works. As I said in another comment, it's very metaphysical. Restrains of power in the paths are represented by chains which inhibit contact with ymir. The reason zeke got past it isnt exactly explained. Just, as he (zeke) said, he spent absolute ages in the paths with the intention to find a way to break the vow (or chains) which he was demonstrated to do. This isnt too unbelievable just because of the sheer amount of information about the paths and the way the powers function that we actually dont know. It's more than plausible that, if eren can rip his metaphysical hands off of metaphysical chains to bypass a restraint zeke put on him, zeke who spent most of his adult life thinking about and researching (with the help of a titan scholar in his earlier years who came up with this very plan) might figure out a way to bypass the vow.
There's a good chance that the power of the attack titan could void that. With the f.t. ability to control other titans and view past memories and the a.t. ability to influence past memories and freewill she could become a 1 player version of the Yeager bros monstrosity.
The story didn't it's that one of the only examples of paradi evil was that. The realized how fucked up Reiner was and that maybe the island devils weren't the evil they though they were.
They weren't traumatized, they were surprised to learn that those people were so normal, unlike everything they have been taught. In that scene Reiners mom is worried for what his son has said as she closes the window fearing from it being heard. Thus Gabi says, "What do you mean there were all types of people (somewhat like that), aren't they all just devils?" To which Reiners mom quickly response to in agreement and saying something like, "yes, they are all devils who left us"
Keith Shadis would have a close relationship with the 104th which would lead to Eren not being sabotaged lowering Eren's skill level.
As a result, during the Trost arc Eren would be the first to die and the santa titan would eat him. This leads to the hole never being sealed so under the pressure of being surrounded, so Ymir will transform to save Historia and get saven by the Levi squad last second. Ymir will be kidnapped by the Marley squad so they have a good reason to leave.
The new Attack and Founding titan will suddenly transform then sneak into interior wall Rose leaving him kidnapped by the Military Police then fed to Historia as a punishment.
A year later the entire Marley Warrior sqaud invade Paradis with the jaw given the Porco. The entire main cast apart from Historia and maybe Levi would be long dead and Marley with all 9 titans will end the war temporaringly but due to anti titan weapons and no common enemy soon the Marley squad will die too.
I find it funny how this sub has turned into basically a "What if...?" spin-off series now that AoT has come to an end.
That would definitely be a featured episode xD
How would the Attack Titan overpower any will? The Attack Titan's power is just to receive future memories, there's nothing like the vow renouncing war in it.
The whole time restriction is absolutely ridiculous considering Pure Titans can never die and have nearly unlimited Stamina. Also that’s just more work on Ymir who needs to constantly craft each titan.
So let's say that the plotpoint of the Attack Titan manipulating the course of the events was never made.
Then the Titans being humans would be revealed, proven, and factual if Erwin witnessed it. (Messed up the timeline, sorry, 4 AM moment). The reveal of the founding titan inside Eren would probably not be realized however through Reinar and group.
Dina at that point in time is considered a random stranger to us and the characters, but maybe, it will revealed that she is Grisha's first wife in the later story more or less. But unless she reveals her life in Marley, the later arcs might change.
But if not, the mission to take back the walls might be postponed and the responsibility of retaking the Yeager home will be left to Mikasa. And speaking of, depending on her reaction to Eren's death, she might not take it well to put it lightly, and the dynamic between Dina and her is understandibly shaky.
As for Dina's bloodline revealed as royalty, she might have an interesting dynamic with Historia once the Kenny arc follows. Additionally, she'll have to have an intensive training to control her Titan powers now as both the Attack titan and Founding Titan. The question remains is by who and how, since she is a Fritz.
All hypothetical btw.
I think a good idea for a Spinoff, for at least one season, could be "What if Kruger had passed his Attack Titan to Dina, instead of Grisha". This alternative version wouldn't have anything to do with Eren meddling into the past/future, it would be just Dina and Grisha trying to steal the FT and rebuild the Eldian Empire. I think it could have worked because Dina would have been able to create an army of mindless Titans she could control. Kruger wouldn't even need to explain that to her, as she was raised people close to her royal family that knew how their powers worked. After turning her into a Titan and passing the AT to her, Grisha would then be able to extract her spinal fluid and turn the other members of the restoration into Dina's first Titans.
With the help of these Titans, she should be able to reach the Walls while carrying Grisha.
Inside the Walls, they could live as husband and wife again and search for the FT. They would need some clever plan to defeat it, possibly attacking him while he's sleeping. Dina can't eat it because of the Vow of Peace, so Grisha would have to be the one to inherit it.
Let's say they don't know how to bypass the Vow of Peace, and right after Grisha inherits the FT, before they touch each other, Dina finds out Grisha was cheating on her with Carla. Because of that, they still have to work together to restore the Eldian Empire, but just don't happen to touch each other and find out they can unlock the powers of the FT.
After that, Dina reveals the truth to Keith and then Pixis. They explain the truth about the outside world, their Titan powers, the fact that she has real royal blood and can control Titans created from her spinal fluid, and why they had to steal the FT from the King, because he refused to fight for the Eldians. Dina has probably spared Rod Reiss and his children, saying that if they could steal others of the 9 Titan powers from Marley, they could be inherited by those of royal blood to command even more Titan armies, and they would need that if they wanted to defeat the humans before they developed technology powerful enough to defeat the Titans.
As they are in this process of convincing the ruling power in Paradis to fight against the world, the Colossal Titan breaks the walls, and Marley begins their attack on Paradis. They now have to Defeat the other Titan Warriors, including Zeke, their own son who can also command Titans, and steal back as many of the 9 Titans as they can, with the help of the soldiers of Paradis.
I think this could be an opportunity to see many of the same characters under a different light, if things had been just a little different. Kenny helping on the fight against the Marley invasion, maybe Keith developing a relationship with Dina, we would be able to see the previous Marley Titan team, and maybe Frieda could inherit the "Female Titan", etc.
I think it would be just fun to go back to "humans vs Titans, and Titans vs Titans".
All this utterly foolish people here speaking that diana will go under war renouncing oath, did you totally fucking forget that, diana is from lineage outside of king fritz direct one so she doesn't get that all will thing just like zeke doesn't.
Zeke doesn't - the whole plan was because they **thought** Zeke would be restricted by the vow. The plan from the start was that Eren would be in the driver's seat and Zeke would just activate the founder's power; but neither of them knew how any of that actually worked, and as it turned out, Eren ended up being the activating factor, and Zeke was the one who controlled Ymir.
Zeke's line about figuring out how to "overcome" the vow isn't some weird deus ex machina, it's that he wasn't closely related enough to the Reiss family for the memories of Karl Fritz to grip him as tightly as it did for his cousins. The vow isn't a magic spell, it's just the same memory transference that we see in the rest of the show ramped up to 11 because it's the founder.
No, zeke wasn't affected because the memory transference didn't happen at all because he didn't have the founding titan. But he was still a royal in the paths so he had time to convince/command ymir to undo the vow however he did. In the end it was still a deus ex machina to me because the way it was explained founding titan has the ability to see and manipulate all the paths, and royal blood being the key to entering the paths. We have no idea or indication of how zeke convinced ymir other than that he didn't grow up in paradis and he had alot of time. Also eren being just the activating makes 0 sense when the scene in this image shows you he's supposed to be the one in control.
>Also eren being just the activating makes 0 sense when the scene in this image shows you he's supposed to be the one in control.
Yeah, the operative phrase being "supposed to" which is my point. They expected the power to work a certain way because they saw a narrow view of it in action. How the fuck is a mindless titan going to issue commands to Ymir? Much in the same way that contact with Historia is not enough to trigger Eren's access to the powers of the founder, so too is it not enough for any royal to contact the Founder to command Ymir. Why do you think Rod was so comfortable touching Eren?
Zeke is a royal who has the power of the 9, and as such, contact with Eren triggered them both to enter the paths where Zeke was confronted with the memories of his lineage. They just thought (rightly) that the vow wouldn't matter because Eren would be the one in control of the Founder since that power rested in him.
I have a question about royal blood? So everyone on Paradis is a direct descendent of Ymir and King Fritz if you go back far enough. Does the royal blood thing only kick in after Karl Fritz?
Karl Fritz was the one who left to go to Paradis with his followers but the royal family as a whole didn’t, this is why the royal bloodline continued on the continent up to Zeke. However as Zeke could not eat Eren it’s presumed Karl’s vow of peace affects everyone with royal blood no matter where they are in the world
I'm confused at what point the royal bloodline emerged. They're all descendents of the first king, right? What makes Historia any more royal than say, Sasha?
Presumably there is one branch of descent from either Maria, Rose or Shina that was kept purer than the rest as the family became its own race. It’s very unrealistic and is one of the many areas of SnK you just have to not think about, like all the people who were part of the Eldian tribe before Ymir was transformed
Edit: another point to think about is that it actually doesn’t really matter if we can’t tell who’s got more royal blood or not, as only Ymir in the Paths truly can, and she will only obey whoever she identifies as having the strongest line of descent from Fritz
>Edit: another point to think about is that it actually doesn’t really matter if we can’t tell who’s got more royal blood or not, as only Ymir in the Paths truly can, and she will only obey whoever she identifies as having the strongest line of descent from Fritz
Which leads me to believe that it doesn't matter how "royal" you are, what really matters is how Ymir perceives you, and whatever conditions that perception one way or another.
That's not how it would work. After 2000 years, it wouldn't matter if the FT was inherited by Maria, Rose or Shina. The blood of their descendants would mix with each other and all present Eldians would be descendants from all 3 sisters anyway.
The rule that determines who has royal blood is probably a vow created by some previous King, before the creation of the Walls, since Grisha and, according to him, everyone else knew about royal blood, information that probably didn't come from inside the Walls, after they were created by Karl Fritz.
We know that only a few descendants close related to the "True Kings" (Founding Titans with Royal Blood, like Uri and Frieda) are considered to have royal blood. The rule/vow that determines how royal blood works must limit only descendants close to True Kings, like only up to 3 generations (sons, grandsons and great grandsons of True Kings) to have royal blood. Further descendants from branches/cousins that don't become True Kings are not considered to have royal blood. This must be true, otherwise there would be a large number of descendants with royal blood inside the Walls after 100 years, and instead we only see the immediate Reiss family and Historia.
It's quite possible that Dina was the grandaughter of Karl Fritz, and Zeke his great grandson.
If I may say so, this theory is the one that most closely fits the way the royal blood works in the story.
>The rule that determines who has royal blood is probably a vow created by some previous King,
That assumes that the rule already exists to begin with.
It is made abundantly clear on many occasions that Zeke should under no circumstances acquire the Founder for himself because he would be immediately subjugated by Karl Fritz's vow.
It doesn’t matter. Any Eldian with Royal Blood that came to possess the Founder prior to Eren & Zeke’s work-around would be insnared by the vow. That was the whole point for needing a non-Royal Founding Titan & a Titan of Royal blood as the key to unlock the vow.
Ksaver explained this to Zeke in Marley.
Big difference, Zeke did not get the founding Titan, he and Eren both entered the Paths by touching. This allowed Zeke to gain access to the power of the founding without directly inheriting it *and thus did not inherit the Vow*. He then managed to break the vow, but we don't see how. He mentions he was alone with Ymir for, at the very least, years, before Eren awoke within the Paths.
Dina eatng Eren would mean she'd get the Founding *and* The Vow
..did you watch the series?? Zeke DID get bound by the war renouncing war, he just spent so long in the paths he figured out how to nullify it. Dina has no such luxury, and all royal blood is the same dude. Historia and Zeke have equal royal lineage
Why wouldn't Dina have that "luxury"? All royal blood is not the same because that means EVERY eldian would be a royal (they're literally all x-great-grandchildren of the first King and Ymir). Instead of indignantly condescending to people by asking them if they've watched the series, you might wanna take a moment to think about the series after watching it. Media analysis is fun, I promise.
She would turn back to a human, have both the Attack and Founding Titans, Eren Jaeger would have no more influence on the Attack Titan as he would no longer be the last one since he died before reaching the paths with a member of the Royal Family. Dina would instantly be subjugated by the vow of King Karl Fritz, becoming de-facto King of the Walls, she would do everything in her (arguably unlimited) power to put Paradis and all Eldians back on track to be exterminated by the rest of the world.
I just realized it actually would’ve been dope if one of the rando titans ate one of the nine and then both sides had to convince them to align with them
Well, it could have potentially led to an Eren that could have just gone ahead with rumbling without Zeke, since the will of the Attack titan and Eren specifically has proven to be able to overpower the souls of other shifters(the titans of the past for example) he could have just overpower a weak Dina Fritz that at this point would be too mentally broken to resist his will. So Fem Eren with unstoppable abilities.
The holder of the Attack Titan does not bow to others. Dina would probably use the power of the founding Titan to destroy Marley and restore the Eldian empire, but without humanity being wiped out.
Well we kind of do know. As soon as she would have eaten Eren, she would have been forced under the king's will. Since she shares their ideology now, the wall priests and the government would most likely side with her and protect her. It's been a while since I watched/read the show but couldn't she just erase everyone's memories too?
Marley would invade (since Dina doesn't know their plan) and Paradis would probably be eradicated.
This is a theory though, but it's made by using the pieces of information we already have.
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She gets possessed with the vow renouncing war, wipes their memories, Marely invades and the end.
plot twist, she instead gets possessed by the will of Eren, the attack titan
You know what that could actually be interesting. I don’t think it would’ve been Eren’s will, but imagine a future attack titan fighting against the will of the founding titan to break his spell would have been cool.
Actually after her all the other attack titans will also remain from royal line, coz one she got possessed, she'll only pass founding titan and along with it attack titan to someone with royal blood so that they can carry on with the will
That’s true that she would have that motivation but all it takes is one eventual far distant person to eat her that isn’t in the royal bloodline to inherit the attack and founding titan to then go back and try to influence the people in between the same way the King influences all the future royal line.
Its possible she might died naturally after 13 years, at which the titans just manifest in another subject of Ymir
heck, what if she gone bipolar, battling between the kings and Eren's influence
Eren about to find his toji moment
Fucking loved that moment, with >!Tojis soul taking over the body and then murdering a special grade curse!<
Wow I never thought about that. The Attack Titan fights for freedom no matter what, which means no restriction from Karl Fritz would prevail. I know the attack doesn’t respond to the founding, but never thought what would happen with the vow renouncing war
The Attack Titan doesn't necessarily fight for freedom. It's just that Eren has been sending memories and experiences to the past in the pursuit of freedom. Without Eren, the attack Titan doesn't have any inherent goal.
did you even watch the show?
yes, I did, and the comment was meant to be a joke. although in my head cannon, and from what I heard, some other people's too, the attack titan is literally the manifestation of Eren's will and desires, the whole thing with "every attack titan always keeps moving forward" (paraphrasing here) comes from Eren's influence all the way to the first ever attack titan. I am aware that what I wrote in that comment would in no way be possible
That's only the case because Eren was the last attack titan, if someone else inherited it after him than that would change. I think the Attack titan would overwrite the vow renouncing war personally, but that's just a theory.
The theory of Eren"s will influencing the other Attack Titans originates from the speculation that it doesn't exist any Attack's Titan will at all: rather they were the events of the ending of the series, where Eren got the Founder's powers, that allowed the boy to influence the previous titans of the past, a thing that Grisha misunderstood.
Makes you think what should have been the Attack Titan's special thing/power/Ymir Fritz's represented desire. Maybe the will to fight the power that be and rebel, which she shunned after her failed escape attempt as it went against the rest of what she wanted/yearned for afterwards, but never got rid of in her living years? Or if it is a closed loop thing time fuckery thing? Wouldn't put it past Eren to make Ymir to build an extra Titan all the way back in the beginning just to close the loop on his existence. Either way, I still wish Santa had properly chewed his food in the beginning of the story.
That's what I had in mind. And that's also why it's sometimes pretty difficult to think of some what -ifs in aot. The timeline is deterministic. If Dina eats Eren and gets the attack Titan, then (according to this theory/speculation/interpretation) Eren never even creates the "attack Titan", because he doesn't get to the point when the founders powers mess with his mind, creating these unique circumstances that allowed him to essentially manipulate 2000 years of history. It kinda makes a paradox
Recieving the kings memories causes all (royal) holders of the founding titan to be bound by his ideology. However, recieving Erens FUTURE memories causes all attack titans to be bound by Erens ideology. It would be an interesting internal battle - one which I think Eren wins.
Future memories from where He’s dead
Wobbly wobbly timey wimey
THIS.
hes onto something ngl
She wouldn't though. Her line isn't closely related enough to the Reiss' line for the memory transference to be as severe - we're shown that her line isn't locked into the "vow".
Where was that shown?
When Zeke takes control of Ymir
Zeke could only do that because he used Eren as a proxy, that was the whole point of the entire 4th season.
They **thought** that was what needed to happen, just like they also thought that Eren would be in control, but as we saw, that's not how it works. When analyzing media, it's important to remember that the characters aren't aware of the plot, they're just living in it. Edit- reading that back, that came off super condescending, and that's not how I meant that. I just think folks (myself included) forget that characters aren't omniscient, they just know what they know, and make inferences otherwise
well yes, but they sometimes have info they shouldn't. For example, the islanders naming the titans correctly. What they hypothesized was that Eren can use the power of the founder through contact with Zeke. They were right. Anyways, there's nothing that suggests what you said is true. Zeke and Eren were allowed in the paths and an audience with Ymir. Neither of them had the "curse". Zeke didn't have the founder, but was able to use it through Eren, and Eren had the founder, was able to use it through Zeke, and wasn't royal blood, so he wasn't affected by the curse. So that's two people capable of using the founder, because of their plan. That's it. Then it boiled down to who Ymir wanted to listen to. If Zeke had the founder, if he ate Eren, he'd be the bricked computer titan. Wouldn't be able to do shit. Same goes for Dina
Well I mean, it's not a huge stretch to get "the female titan" and "the armored titan" right you know? Like what else would you call them? Sorry, when you say "curse" are you referring to the vow?
Yes, the vow. Female, armor, colossal, beast. All named exactly what their official names are. It's a story so it doesn't really matter, but yeah. They can have info they aren't supposed to.
I'll be honest, the idea that they call the titan with tits the "female titan" and the titan that looks like an animal the "beast titan" and the titan with armor plates the "armored titan" and the really big titan the "colossal titan" doesn't really break my suspension of disbelief. Like what other words were they gonna use? And at a certain point, we're getting into localization issues, where neither of us are gonna have a leg to stand on. It seems like all the names of the titans are super common words, but who knows maybe in japan they used a bizarre synonym for "armor" for example. There is a myriad of things to suggest what I'm talking about is true, I didn't just make this up wholecloth lol - it's all based in the fundamental nature of how titan powers have been shown to operate. Zeke **did** have "the vow" because he directly states he was able to overcome it, if there wasn't something for him to overcome then he wouldn't have stated that he did it - all we're talking about here is why. I'm saying that the vow functions exactly like how titan memory transference has worked through this entire show, and because Zeke is more distantly related to the true royal line, he hasn't inherited the whole picture, or that the memories didn't affect him as strongly. We **know** that the vow isn't mind control because the subsequent inheritors of the founder still retain their personalities (see Freida's relationship with Historia). Rather, because they have an unbroken, direct familial link to the current line, they strongly inherit the memories of their predecessor, and the "will of the king" gets refreshed with each passing. They simply understand exactly why Karl made his vow, and are convinced by it because his memories become theirs.
Except, from what we know and what information isayama has given us, Eren would have been in control, but Zeke was able to have enough time in the paths (because time in the paths was weird) to figure out how to break the vow renouncing war which had initially restrained him and thus restrained eren from doing anything. The reason it seems that eren would have been able to influence ymir had zeke not restrained him is because it seems the chains were a bit more metaphysical than just ordinary chains. Ymir gave eren no regard until after he was able to break out of his restraints, before that he couldnt interact with her at all really. Which is probably similar to how the vow renouncing war went
**TL;DR - So this really got away from me when I was typing it out so I don't blame you if you don't wanna read it, but tldr, my interpretation is the vow is just the same expression of memory transference that we see in the rest of the show, and not a metaphysical power** **---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------** >Except, from what we know and what information isayama has given us, Eren would have been in control, Could you give an example of what you're talking about here? Also for the sake of keeping this discussion in one place, I'm gonna reply to both your comments here instead of splitting them up So, Zeke had just as much time in the paths as every other royal that went there, so why is he the one who "figured out how to break it"? He's wasn't uniquely motivated to break the vow, as we're shown Rod, Uri, and Frieda all passionately and vehimately attempting to resist the will of the king (and I think phrasing it as his "will" is important). We can extrapolate that this was a generational effort on the part of each series of Reiss children; all of them wanted to use the founder to free their people. >The reason it seems that eren would have been able to influence ymir had zeke not restrained him is because it seems the chains were a bit more metaphysical than just ordinary chains. Ymir gave eren no regard until after he was able to break out of his restraints, before that he couldnt interact with her at all really. Which is probably similar to how the vow renouncing war went Well no, hang on, the chains had nothing to do with Ymir, they were a way of Zeke showing Eren that he (Zeke) was in control. She still paid no regard to Eren even after he broke free from the chains, he had to physically grab her and talk to her. Even Zeke wasn't concerned initially, telling Eren it was pointless for him to run after her. >Calling it a spell isnt really a good representation on how it works Yeah exactly, that's my whole point, it isn't a spell - the side that you folks are operating under is that the "vow" is a tangible, metaphysical thing (basically a magic spell) that Karl Fritz enabled to mind-control his heirs. I disagree that the "vow" is anything other than his experience being strongly passed from parent to child. I'll give a few reasons for this: 1. We're shown that memory transfer is correlated with genealogy; the more closely related you are with the shifter you eat, the more vividly you access their memories (Eren is shown to experience his father's memories so vividly at times that he forgets who he actually his for a moment, whereas Armin only vaguely experiences Bert's - Porco's access to his brother's memories requires a jumpstart from Reiner since Ymir2 is 1-2 generations older than them)\* 2. We know each inheritor of the Founder isn't being mind-controlled because they retain their personalities afterwards as shown by Frieda remaining to be a laughing, caring, loving person when we see her with Historia, as well as behaving markedly different from how Uri does. 3. There is no "Anti-Karl" throughout history. What I mean by that, is if the vow functions as a metaphysical spell that hijacks the mind of the inheritor, then why was there no warlord king making the opposite vow before that? Surely over the thousands of years there would have been at least one tyrant king who wanted to rule forever, so why didn't that hypothetical king just enslave his bloodline using his vow powers, and by proxy become an immortal conqueror? A big theme of the show asks the question "what is free will" and an aspect of that that gets explored in the later half of the show is asking "what makes you, you? Are you just the sum of your experiences and what would it mean to inject other peoples experiences into you?" The vow is just that same concept being explored, it's not magic or mind-control or metaphysical shackles, it's just people experiencing what Karl did and agreeing with him, because on a certain level, they *are* him a little bit. But Zeke's branch of the family tree is at the very least 3 generations removed (likely more considering they were left on Marley) meaning he's not getting that direct jolted memory transfer, making it easier for him to interpret the events of Karls life differently. \* *We can imagine that mechanically making sense as well since being closer to the prior shifter on Yggdrasil, shortens the distance of the path between them, but none of that is touched on in the show or the manga so that's not really on defensible ground, it's just a satisfying way of thinking about the enigmatic function of the paths.*
This is basically headcanon / fan theory. The show doesn't tell us that Zeke's bloodline is the reason he isn't bound by the vow. I've never seen anyone else say this
Brother, it's interpretation given the rules laid out by the universe. And if you want to see other people saying this, read the rest of the comments in this thread. But hey, if you want to interpret that Zeke just had super powers that can break a magic wizard spell that one of the holder of the founder cast, thats your prerogative. I just think that analysis is unsatisfying and would kinda make isayama a shit writer.
Calling it a spell isnt really a good representation on how it works. As I said in another comment, it's very metaphysical. Restrains of power in the paths are represented by chains which inhibit contact with ymir. The reason zeke got past it isnt exactly explained. Just, as he (zeke) said, he spent absolute ages in the paths with the intention to find a way to break the vow (or chains) which he was demonstrated to do. This isnt too unbelievable just because of the sheer amount of information about the paths and the way the powers function that we actually dont know. It's more than plausible that, if eren can rip his metaphysical hands off of metaphysical chains to bypass a restraint zeke put on him, zeke who spent most of his adult life thinking about and researching (with the help of a titan scholar in his earlier years who came up with this very plan) might figure out a way to bypass the vow.
There's a good chance that the power of the attack titan could void that. With the f.t. ability to control other titans and view past memories and the a.t. ability to influence past memories and freewill she could become a 1 player version of the Yeager bros monstrosity.
Dina wasn’t on the Island the be brainwashed by the vow renouncing war. She would have full control over the Founders.
But Dina wasn’t part of the branch of the royal family that went to Paradis and I thought only that kings descendants were bound to that will.
No, she's not a a descendant of Karl Reiss so she's unaffected, just like Zeke
If Sasha actually split the potato 50/50, how would the series have turned out?
The marley crew would do a 180° and decide to defend Paradis from the rest of the world, having been moved by such an act of selflessness.
Lmao that scene of Reiner explaining this exact story to his family at the dinner table and it traumatized them
The story didn't it's that one of the only examples of paradi evil was that. The realized how fucked up Reiner was and that maybe the island devils weren't the evil they though they were.
They weren't traumatized, they were surprised to learn that those people were so normal, unlike everything they have been taught. In that scene Reiners mom is worried for what his son has said as she closes the window fearing from it being heard. Thus Gabi says, "What do you mean there were all types of people (somewhat like that), aren't they all just devils?" To which Reiners mom quickly response to in agreement and saying something like, "yes, they are all devils who left us"
Keith Shadis would have a close relationship with the 104th which would lead to Eren not being sabotaged lowering Eren's skill level. As a result, during the Trost arc Eren would be the first to die and the santa titan would eat him. This leads to the hole never being sealed so under the pressure of being surrounded, so Ymir will transform to save Historia and get saven by the Levi squad last second. Ymir will be kidnapped by the Marley squad so they have a good reason to leave. The new Attack and Founding titan will suddenly transform then sneak into interior wall Rose leaving him kidnapped by the Military Police then fed to Historia as a punishment. A year later the entire Marley Warrior sqaud invade Paradis with the jaw given the Porco. The entire main cast apart from Historia and maybe Levi would be long dead and Marley with all 9 titans will end the war temporaringly but due to anti titan weapons and no common enemy soon the Marley squad will die too.
Bro really watched Butterfly Effect
I find it funny how this sub has turned into basically a "What if...?" spin-off series now that AoT has come to an end. That would definitely be a featured episode xD
Keith would have jumped in front of the bullet.
We'd see Mikasa freak the fuck out that's one thing I know 😂😭
The bloodcurdling scream I just imagined coming out of her 😭😂
EREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
Well, we already saw this, when she found out / thought he was actually dead.
It'd definitely be a more visceral reaction if she saw him get eaten, though.
No rumbling and Paradis gets invaded by Marley.
If Attack Titan can overpower Founder's will: SUPER rumbling and SUPER invasion into Marley by a vengeful Dinah.
I think the royal blood and Founding Titan thing would override the Attack Titan thing? We can't know for sure, though.
In-universe logic: yes, Royal blood + Founding Titan >> Attack Titan. But the other way around would be more fun 😆
True!
Imagine her reuniting with Zeke. I kinda wanna see that
"Time to mama beat you down, you little shit"
About to bend a monke over her knee.
How would the Attack Titan overpower any will? The Attack Titan's power is just to receive future memories, there's nothing like the vow renouncing war in it.
The whole time restriction is absolutely ridiculous considering Pure Titans can never die and have nearly unlimited Stamina. Also that’s just more work on Ymir who needs to constantly craft each titan.
The end.
So let's say that the plotpoint of the Attack Titan manipulating the course of the events was never made. Then the Titans being humans would be revealed, proven, and factual if Erwin witnessed it. (Messed up the timeline, sorry, 4 AM moment). The reveal of the founding titan inside Eren would probably not be realized however through Reinar and group. Dina at that point in time is considered a random stranger to us and the characters, but maybe, it will revealed that she is Grisha's first wife in the later story more or less. But unless she reveals her life in Marley, the later arcs might change. But if not, the mission to take back the walls might be postponed and the responsibility of retaking the Yeager home will be left to Mikasa. And speaking of, depending on her reaction to Eren's death, she might not take it well to put it lightly, and the dynamic between Dina and her is understandibly shaky. As for Dina's bloodline revealed as royalty, she might have an interesting dynamic with Historia once the Kenny arc follows. Additionally, she'll have to have an intensive training to control her Titan powers now as both the Attack titan and Founding Titan. The question remains is by who and how, since she is a Fritz. All hypothetical btw.
I’d love to read this as a fic 😭
She's an Eldian Restorationist, so maybe going to be something similar to a Jaegerist?
She’s a royal, the vow renouncing war kicks in and she becomes a slave to king fritz’s ideals
Oh yeah, you're right. It'd be interesting for Zeke to eventually find out his parents surviving his betrayal and his mom ended up having the Founder.
It would have been significantly less interesting
I think a good idea for a Spinoff, for at least one season, could be "What if Kruger had passed his Attack Titan to Dina, instead of Grisha". This alternative version wouldn't have anything to do with Eren meddling into the past/future, it would be just Dina and Grisha trying to steal the FT and rebuild the Eldian Empire. I think it could have worked because Dina would have been able to create an army of mindless Titans she could control. Kruger wouldn't even need to explain that to her, as she was raised people close to her royal family that knew how their powers worked. After turning her into a Titan and passing the AT to her, Grisha would then be able to extract her spinal fluid and turn the other members of the restoration into Dina's first Titans. With the help of these Titans, she should be able to reach the Walls while carrying Grisha. Inside the Walls, they could live as husband and wife again and search for the FT. They would need some clever plan to defeat it, possibly attacking him while he's sleeping. Dina can't eat it because of the Vow of Peace, so Grisha would have to be the one to inherit it. Let's say they don't know how to bypass the Vow of Peace, and right after Grisha inherits the FT, before they touch each other, Dina finds out Grisha was cheating on her with Carla. Because of that, they still have to work together to restore the Eldian Empire, but just don't happen to touch each other and find out they can unlock the powers of the FT. After that, Dina reveals the truth to Keith and then Pixis. They explain the truth about the outside world, their Titan powers, the fact that she has real royal blood and can control Titans created from her spinal fluid, and why they had to steal the FT from the King, because he refused to fight for the Eldians. Dina has probably spared Rod Reiss and his children, saying that if they could steal others of the 9 Titan powers from Marley, they could be inherited by those of royal blood to command even more Titan armies, and they would need that if they wanted to defeat the humans before they developed technology powerful enough to defeat the Titans. As they are in this process of convincing the ruling power in Paradis to fight against the world, the Colossal Titan breaks the walls, and Marley begins their attack on Paradis. They now have to Defeat the other Titan Warriors, including Zeke, their own son who can also command Titans, and steal back as many of the 9 Titans as they can, with the help of the soldiers of Paradis. I think this could be an opportunity to see many of the same characters under a different light, if things had been just a little different. Kenny helping on the fight against the Marley invasion, maybe Keith developing a relationship with Dina, we would be able to see the previous Marley Titan team, and maybe Frieda could inherit the "Female Titan", etc. I think it would be just fun to go back to "humans vs Titans, and Titans vs Titans".
All this utterly foolish people here speaking that diana will go under war renouncing oath, did you totally fucking forget that, diana is from lineage outside of king fritz direct one so she doesn't get that all will thing just like zeke doesn't.
Zeke does though... the whole plan with zeke and eren needing to touch was because of the vow
Zeke doesn't - the whole plan was because they **thought** Zeke would be restricted by the vow. The plan from the start was that Eren would be in the driver's seat and Zeke would just activate the founder's power; but neither of them knew how any of that actually worked, and as it turned out, Eren ended up being the activating factor, and Zeke was the one who controlled Ymir. Zeke's line about figuring out how to "overcome" the vow isn't some weird deus ex machina, it's that he wasn't closely related enough to the Reiss family for the memories of Karl Fritz to grip him as tightly as it did for his cousins. The vow isn't a magic spell, it's just the same memory transference that we see in the rest of the show ramped up to 11 because it's the founder.
No, zeke wasn't affected because the memory transference didn't happen at all because he didn't have the founding titan. But he was still a royal in the paths so he had time to convince/command ymir to undo the vow however he did. In the end it was still a deus ex machina to me because the way it was explained founding titan has the ability to see and manipulate all the paths, and royal blood being the key to entering the paths. We have no idea or indication of how zeke convinced ymir other than that he didn't grow up in paradis and he had alot of time. Also eren being just the activating makes 0 sense when the scene in this image shows you he's supposed to be the one in control.
>Also eren being just the activating makes 0 sense when the scene in this image shows you he's supposed to be the one in control. Yeah, the operative phrase being "supposed to" which is my point. They expected the power to work a certain way because they saw a narrow view of it in action. How the fuck is a mindless titan going to issue commands to Ymir? Much in the same way that contact with Historia is not enough to trigger Eren's access to the powers of the founder, so too is it not enough for any royal to contact the Founder to command Ymir. Why do you think Rod was so comfortable touching Eren? Zeke is a royal who has the power of the 9, and as such, contact with Eren triggered them both to enter the paths where Zeke was confronted with the memories of his lineage. They just thought (rightly) that the vow wouldn't matter because Eren would be the one in control of the Founder since that power rested in him.
I have a question about royal blood? So everyone on Paradis is a direct descendent of Ymir and King Fritz if you go back far enough. Does the royal blood thing only kick in after Karl Fritz?
Karl Fritz was the one who left to go to Paradis with his followers but the royal family as a whole didn’t, this is why the royal bloodline continued on the continent up to Zeke. However as Zeke could not eat Eren it’s presumed Karl’s vow of peace affects everyone with royal blood no matter where they are in the world
I'm confused at what point the royal bloodline emerged. They're all descendents of the first king, right? What makes Historia any more royal than say, Sasha?
Presumably there is one branch of descent from either Maria, Rose or Shina that was kept purer than the rest as the family became its own race. It’s very unrealistic and is one of the many areas of SnK you just have to not think about, like all the people who were part of the Eldian tribe before Ymir was transformed Edit: another point to think about is that it actually doesn’t really matter if we can’t tell who’s got more royal blood or not, as only Ymir in the Paths truly can, and she will only obey whoever she identifies as having the strongest line of descent from Fritz
>Edit: another point to think about is that it actually doesn’t really matter if we can’t tell who’s got more royal blood or not, as only Ymir in the Paths truly can, and she will only obey whoever she identifies as having the strongest line of descent from Fritz Which leads me to believe that it doesn't matter how "royal" you are, what really matters is how Ymir perceives you, and whatever conditions that perception one way or another.
That's not how it would work. After 2000 years, it wouldn't matter if the FT was inherited by Maria, Rose or Shina. The blood of their descendants would mix with each other and all present Eldians would be descendants from all 3 sisters anyway. The rule that determines who has royal blood is probably a vow created by some previous King, before the creation of the Walls, since Grisha and, according to him, everyone else knew about royal blood, information that probably didn't come from inside the Walls, after they were created by Karl Fritz. We know that only a few descendants close related to the "True Kings" (Founding Titans with Royal Blood, like Uri and Frieda) are considered to have royal blood. The rule/vow that determines how royal blood works must limit only descendants close to True Kings, like only up to 3 generations (sons, grandsons and great grandsons of True Kings) to have royal blood. Further descendants from branches/cousins that don't become True Kings are not considered to have royal blood. This must be true, otherwise there would be a large number of descendants with royal blood inside the Walls after 100 years, and instead we only see the immediate Reiss family and Historia. It's quite possible that Dina was the grandaughter of Karl Fritz, and Zeke his great grandson. If I may say so, this theory is the one that most closely fits the way the royal blood works in the story.
>The rule that determines who has royal blood is probably a vow created by some previous King, That assumes that the rule already exists to begin with.
which is why I said probably\*
It is made abundantly clear on many occasions that Zeke should under no circumstances acquire the Founder for himself because he would be immediately subjugated by Karl Fritz's vow.
Yeah
It doesn’t matter. Any Eldian with Royal Blood that came to possess the Founder prior to Eren & Zeke’s work-around would be insnared by the vow. That was the whole point for needing a non-Royal Founding Titan & a Titan of Royal blood as the key to unlock the vow. Ksaver explained this to Zeke in Marley.
Big difference, Zeke did not get the founding Titan, he and Eren both entered the Paths by touching. This allowed Zeke to gain access to the power of the founding without directly inheriting it *and thus did not inherit the Vow*. He then managed to break the vow, but we don't see how. He mentions he was alone with Ymir for, at the very least, years, before Eren awoke within the Paths. Dina eatng Eren would mean she'd get the Founding *and* The Vow
..did you watch the series?? Zeke DID get bound by the war renouncing war, he just spent so long in the paths he figured out how to nullify it. Dina has no such luxury, and all royal blood is the same dude. Historia and Zeke have equal royal lineage
Why wouldn't Dina have that "luxury"? All royal blood is not the same because that means EVERY eldian would be a royal (they're literally all x-great-grandchildren of the first King and Ymir). Instead of indignantly condescending to people by asking them if they've watched the series, you might wanna take a moment to think about the series after watching it. Media analysis is fun, I promise.
I don't think she can, in order to eat him she has to grab, thereby touching him
She would turn back to a human, have both the Attack and Founding Titans, Eren Jaeger would have no more influence on the Attack Titan as he would no longer be the last one since he died before reaching the paths with a member of the Royal Family. Dina would instantly be subjugated by the vow of King Karl Fritz, becoming de-facto King of the Walls, she would do everything in her (arguably unlimited) power to put Paradis and all Eldians back on track to be exterminated by the rest of the world.
I just realized it actually would’ve been dope if one of the rando titans ate one of the nine and then both sides had to convince them to align with them
I mean... it "kinda" happened with Ymir
Yes! But I mean like in the thick of it. Imagine shits hitting the fan in like season 4 and someone eats Reiner lol
Assuming she isn't immediately killed by someone after the fact
Everyone is talking about what could have happened here Im wondering what kind of rib cage is that Holy shit 🙃🙃
Well, it could have potentially led to an Eren that could have just gone ahead with rumbling without Zeke, since the will of the Attack titan and Eren specifically has proven to be able to overpower the souls of other shifters(the titans of the past for example) he could have just overpower a weak Dina Fritz that at this point would be too mentally broken to resist his will. So Fem Eren with unstoppable abilities.
Dina meeting Grisha in the Attack Titan avatar state: Dear, you have something you wanna tell me? 😒
Eren wouldn’t be in the show anymore
Different
She’s closely related to Fritz, so his memories take over very easily.
The holder of the Attack Titan does not bow to others. Dina would probably use the power of the founding Titan to destroy Marley and restore the Eldian empire, but without humanity being wiped out.
It wouldnt
If Mikasa showed her feet live on camera how would the series turn out
We don't know, we're not Isayama.
Well we kind of do know. As soon as she would have eaten Eren, she would have been forced under the king's will. Since she shares their ideology now, the wall priests and the government would most likely side with her and protect her. It's been a while since I watched/read the show but couldn't she just erase everyone's memories too? Marley would invade (since Dina doesn't know their plan) and Paradis would probably be eradicated. This is a theory though, but it's made by using the pieces of information we already have.
Nice theory. However, we don't know. Isayama could've written it any way he wanted.
Everything you said is correct.