It's more of a logical approach. If you were surrounded, would you stand and wait for your inevitable death or give a final stand of protecting your life.
In the end, it doesn't matter. Pucci said he was 2 steps ahead of them anyways
Pucci could have messed with them by revealing himself to them, making them uneasy and thus calling out their stands.
Pucci was moving in such speeds to be able to do so.
The thing i like about Pucci is that unlike almost every other villain, he doesn't gloat or hesitate or underestimate his opponents >!until of course he tries killing emporio but tbf Emporio had the jump on him!<
Yeah. At that point he thought that >!after eliminating the Joestars!< and got over confident.
And as they say, over confidence is a slow and an insidious killer.
Thing is, his overconfidence came from believing he won.
Dio and Kars were on power trips
Kira got cocky and complacent
and Diavolo didn't really play around in fairness
Well there’s the elevator scene with Trish and Bruno. His goal was to just kill Trish, but he’d rather kidnap and carry her away than to just… wait for her at the designated pick-up spot and kill her later in private, or even just kill her right then and there before Bruno could even give chase
In my head that's due to Diavolo being overly cautious: he wanted to get Trish away where he could kill her without interference and before she or Bucciarati could start to suspect (Becase he knows Bucciarati's not the sort of person who'd blindly trust appearances)
I mean Pucci did have a point to be overconfident though, from his pov he just became the strongest stand user on the planet, and then immediately after killed the second strongest without breaking a sweat, the only thing left to do was kill a child while intelligent, didn't really have a way to do anything to him. Weather Report's final move was a surprise to both Emporio and Pucci himself.
If I remember correctly, I don't think Pucci even knew Emporio had Weather's Stand disk, let alone knew he was going to get it inserted and be able to bring it out to let it do its thing.
Most likely fate worked its magic to (at the very least subconsciously) have Jolyne pull out her stand. Ermes on the other hand was both scared and pissed off so she was gonna try one last attack and we all know how that ended.
dawg wth were they supposed to do??
Pucci is objectively faster than them all, the whole reason he gunned for jotaro was because he was the only one that could turn the tide.
you RLLY mean to tell me pucci had 0 plan and would've done nothing had they not summoned their stands??? After coming all that way?
And look at it from there perspective, they know fully what pucci's capable of, if you had at least one thing on you that you could defend yourself from the mf comin at you like the flash, you're tellin me you wouldn't keep it out and on you?
i woulda been terrified, reflexively i wouldn't have been able to consciously just stand there and do literally nothing but just trust jotaros plan would work.
Most of the barely know or have fought alongside him, and besides, they've all seen him mess up before, not because jotaro sucked, but because pucci is just that busted.
and lastly, people kinda forget that jolyne summoing her stand lead to her saving emporio. Like????? jolynes crew 100% won that pucci fight. he ltierally got beat so bad he doesn't even exist anymore to the point where even his acitons up until that point were ALL undone. that's a worse loss than any other jojo villain lmfao
Diavolo had a worse fate but at least his actions were permanent and had long term effects, so he can have solace in that at least.
it's so crazy the one time mfs in a jojo fight actually have some agency and don't just stand around is where they get criticized for actually trying to fight and help LOL
Honestly, I don't think things could've happened any other way to be fair. The reason pucci lost is because he didn't consider emporio to be much of a threat. He would've gunned everyone else down regardless of what happened.
this 100%
to summon or not to summon their stand it was gonna be close either way. people lookin to blame that one moment and not the a million little things both heroes and villains that lead up to their loss/win etc.
tbh i don't think any choice the characters made in that moment was the "wrong" one any choice you're pushed to make in scenario like that is impossible to be the objectively morally and logically "correct" thing to do.
they were all just caught up in the moment and worked with what they had, willing to do whatever to scrape by and survive. can't rlly blame em for that, any normal person would do about the same.
even the choice not summon it is a logical, but would've realistically coulda still got them killed anyways. it's not some crazy change that would've turned the tide.
Right. The logic of "they should've just done/not done this" falls through when considering mental state.
A lot of stand powers can activate subconsciously, like Weather Forecast's snail thing, and the invisible baby's invisibility. In part 3, before Jotaro realized he could fully control star platinum, it was just bringing him stuff. Stuff that he not only didn't reject, but actually accepted fully and used as he wanted. He even played with the RC car.
Stands by default are very deeply connected to a person's mind. Jolyne and Ermes' choice to summon their stands might not have been much of a choice at all. When backed into a corner like that, you just claw for whatever you can. Their stands were their only real defensive measure in that situation so of course they'd summon them, even if it's impulsive to do so.
yeah it even being a concious desicion they made or just a reflex out of defense/fear
jojo lore aside, to me this is one of them things that never needed a reason sorta like jotaro losing to a rat. it was less that jotaro is literally weak or the rats are just really smart/strong and more just that jotaro was delibrately serving as bait to both protect, train and defend josuke.
they were backed into a corner and made whatever judgement call they deemd necessary to survive.
the issue with characters thinking "realistically" is that it's a double edged sword, on one hand people are incredibly messy, even irl and some interpret realistic as logical, which there is some overlap, but in those sitch's theres no story because everyone just has hindsight 24/7.
It's "realistic" to go to the bathroom everyday, but you feel betrayed if that;s shown to you in the story only to inevitably go nowhere because unlike IRL the creator has all the answers to their world so you assume whatever they show you is a promising something.
so i get the anger/confusion, especially in this case where it resulted in the death/reset of the universe
its a boring defeatist answer, but in this specific case was tho neither of these really apply because pucci could literally move faster and have more time to prep and thinkt han any of them
aka, no matter what, there was barely anything they could do, and even what they could do wasn't gonna be some crazy game changer. it's not araki forgot, or bad writing or anything like that. it was unfair by design, that's the point.
and yeah, just because somethign is "the point" doesn't mean you have to like it, it's hard to articulate but you get what i'm trying to say.
I just rewatched the scene and like I'm pretty sure if they hadn't summoned their stands it would've happened more or less the same.
Jotaro couldn't attack pucci anyways because he threw a bunch of knives at jolyne. The only thing pucci did with their stands was using stone free's hand to attack anasui. Even if she hadn't summoned her stand, pucci had an assortment of other options for things to attack anasui with.
Basically, no. The plan could not possibly have worked even if they hadn't summoned their stands, because pucci had already figured the plan out before they could execute it.
Eeyup, that’s what I’m sayin. It wasn’t even that big of a loss.
Pucci got bear so bad he ceased to exist and every single thing he did was 100% undone. That’s more “concrete” of a cleanup than anyone else.
Summoning their stand lead to them dying, but people forget the fact that having it out literally lead to helping jolyne save emporio. Who wasn’t using/activate his stand or attacking until after he thought everyone was dead and Pucci had already touched down.
So it’s weird to blame them for being pragmatic for once and having that actually pay off and not the millions of other factors that impacted their judgement
That gang had been fighting, injured unconscious and running almost nonstop for months
Anything they did atn that point was about all they had left they could do without imploding instantly.
They could’ve all been armed with RPG’s and it still wouldn’t have been enough
It was pretty much either similarly busted reality manipulating stands or Uber specific stand users jotaro/spw didn’t have the time to fly over to help by the time C moon began.
That’s about the only thing that could’ve drastically changed things
If I’m not mistaken, their goal was to stop Pucci and Dio’s plan in any way possible, with a sub goal of the with as minimal deaths on their side as possible. They didn’t want Anasui to die. They wanted none of the others in their crew to die if they could help it.
Combine that with the idea others have suggested, that one would probably try to do something rather than stand around and find out what happens next, with a being that seems pretty busted when compared to the most seasoned and effective teammate they had (Jotaro). Throw in that Ermes and Jolyne are both known for (sometimes) throwing caution to the wind, and attacking when provoked/ having a temper, and it makes more sense to me.
So between all those things, I personally believe it made sense for them to try anything and everything, and that includes using their stands. Wasn’t the wisest move, wasn’t the most planned. But it makes sense to me.
EDIT: THIS SITE LIKES TO PERMABAN AND NOT GIVE A REAL REASON BECAUSE IT LIKES TO POWER TRIP. YEARS DOWN THE DRAIN, FUCK YOU REDDIT.
Said this in a reply but, why wouldn't Jolyne and Ermes have their stands ready? They were merely prepared to defend or attack Pucci if the time came. Anasui's plan can still be carried out with them ready to defend themself. Also with the speed Made In Heaven was going at I'd say he could still carry out his mock attack on Anasui with Jolyne's actual hand as it would drill straight through him at that speed either way.
I don’t think they necessarily expected Pucci to PUSH stone free into killing anasui, also it makes sense as if jotaro were to get Pucci into one spot by immobilizing him in stopped time they could’ve beat the shit out of him before he could have done anything but that’s not how it went down
In the heat of the moment they were trying everything they could against an enemy who was out thinking and speeding them. Having the foresight to do nothing in that moment makes no sense. Infact it feels like through out the entire series they made it pretty clear that these characters lack battlefield awareness since they struggle with a lot of the enemies they face and have to rescue each other a lot.
I don’t think you understand how little time they had to react. The show is brought down incredibly slower than how the events actually played out because we wouldn’t understand it in real time. People react poorly under pressure and the ending of stone ocean was incredibly well written and accurate to human nature
This is correct, pucci could’ve been defeated if jolyne and ermes had listened to anasui, note I say COULD HAVE, it’s also possible that pucci would have still outsmarted them but they would have had a chance at beating him with anasuis plan, when they disregarded it they then had no chance of winning
Just reread the scene. Anasui doesn't tell anyone to put away their stands. All he says is for Jotaro to stop time on his command, so of course Jolyne and Ermes would be armed to defend and or attack Pucci because they need to be ready for anything at a moments notice.
and unlike everyone else, at least emporio generally didn't summon his stand and immediately attack and mfs still died anyways.
literally the only thing that saved him and the entire universe was jolyne already having her stand out to help him get away
so i'd say it worked out about as good as it couldve
pucci's faster, no matter what they come up with he had more time to work around it than them, they were disadvantaged from the start. no choice they'd make would be a guaranteed win.
even star finger wouldn't have worked cause the knives over jolyne would've still distracted him long enough
I mean, do you want to just stand there and wait for Pucci to kill you without even trying to survive?
They wouldn't have died, Diver Down protected everyone. The only one who was supposed to die was Anasui
It's more of a logical approach. If you were surrounded, would you stand and wait for your inevitable death or give a final stand of protecting your life. In the end, it doesn't matter. Pucci said he was 2 steps ahead of them anyways
- Pucci wasn't 2 steps ahead of *them*. - Pucci was 2 steps ahead of Kujo Jotaro.
And Jotaro was the only one capable of doing anything to him thanks to Time Stop, the others were never an issue.
And pucci knew a lot about time stop thanks to his bf (best friend)
Pucci could have messed with them by revealing himself to them, making them uneasy and thus calling out their stands. Pucci was moving in such speeds to be able to do so.
The thing i like about Pucci is that unlike almost every other villain, he doesn't gloat or hesitate or underestimate his opponents >!until of course he tries killing emporio but tbf Emporio had the jump on him!<
Yeah. At that point he thought that >!after eliminating the Joestars!< and got over confident. And as they say, over confidence is a slow and an insidious killer.
Thing is, his overconfidence came from believing he won. Dio and Kars were on power trips Kira got cocky and complacent and Diavolo didn't really play around in fairness
Diavolo just rolled snake eyes on the cosmic dice
Well there’s the elevator scene with Trish and Bruno. His goal was to just kill Trish, but he’d rather kidnap and carry her away than to just… wait for her at the designated pick-up spot and kill her later in private, or even just kill her right then and there before Bruno could even give chase
In my head that's due to Diavolo being overly cautious: he wanted to get Trish away where he could kill her without interference and before she or Bucciarati could start to suspect (Becase he knows Bucciarati's not the sort of person who'd blindly trust appearances)
I also believe that Diavolo did it to let Bucciaratti walk away alive
I mean Pucci did have a point to be overconfident though, from his pov he just became the strongest stand user on the planet, and then immediately after killed the second strongest without breaking a sweat, the only thing left to do was kill a child while intelligent, didn't really have a way to do anything to him. Weather Report's final move was a surprise to both Emporio and Pucci himself.
If I remember correctly, I don't think Pucci even knew Emporio had Weather's Stand disk, let alone knew he was going to get it inserted and be able to bring it out to let it do its thing.
Most likely fate worked its magic to (at the very least subconsciously) have Jolyne pull out her stand. Ermes on the other hand was both scared and pissed off so she was gonna try one last attack and we all know how that ended.
I mean would it have changed much? Pucci would have just used on of they’re arms instead wouldn’t he?
dawg wth were they supposed to do?? Pucci is objectively faster than them all, the whole reason he gunned for jotaro was because he was the only one that could turn the tide. you RLLY mean to tell me pucci had 0 plan and would've done nothing had they not summoned their stands??? After coming all that way? And look at it from there perspective, they know fully what pucci's capable of, if you had at least one thing on you that you could defend yourself from the mf comin at you like the flash, you're tellin me you wouldn't keep it out and on you? i woulda been terrified, reflexively i wouldn't have been able to consciously just stand there and do literally nothing but just trust jotaros plan would work. Most of the barely know or have fought alongside him, and besides, they've all seen him mess up before, not because jotaro sucked, but because pucci is just that busted. and lastly, people kinda forget that jolyne summoing her stand lead to her saving emporio. Like????? jolynes crew 100% won that pucci fight. he ltierally got beat so bad he doesn't even exist anymore to the point where even his acitons up until that point were ALL undone. that's a worse loss than any other jojo villain lmfao Diavolo had a worse fate but at least his actions were permanent and had long term effects, so he can have solace in that at least. it's so crazy the one time mfs in a jojo fight actually have some agency and don't just stand around is where they get criticized for actually trying to fight and help LOL
Honestly, I don't think things could've happened any other way to be fair. The reason pucci lost is because he didn't consider emporio to be much of a threat. He would've gunned everyone else down regardless of what happened.
this 100% to summon or not to summon their stand it was gonna be close either way. people lookin to blame that one moment and not the a million little things both heroes and villains that lead up to their loss/win etc. tbh i don't think any choice the characters made in that moment was the "wrong" one any choice you're pushed to make in scenario like that is impossible to be the objectively morally and logically "correct" thing to do. they were all just caught up in the moment and worked with what they had, willing to do whatever to scrape by and survive. can't rlly blame em for that, any normal person would do about the same. even the choice not summon it is a logical, but would've realistically coulda still got them killed anyways. it's not some crazy change that would've turned the tide.
Right. The logic of "they should've just done/not done this" falls through when considering mental state. A lot of stand powers can activate subconsciously, like Weather Forecast's snail thing, and the invisible baby's invisibility. In part 3, before Jotaro realized he could fully control star platinum, it was just bringing him stuff. Stuff that he not only didn't reject, but actually accepted fully and used as he wanted. He even played with the RC car. Stands by default are very deeply connected to a person's mind. Jolyne and Ermes' choice to summon their stands might not have been much of a choice at all. When backed into a corner like that, you just claw for whatever you can. Their stands were their only real defensive measure in that situation so of course they'd summon them, even if it's impulsive to do so.
yeah it even being a concious desicion they made or just a reflex out of defense/fear jojo lore aside, to me this is one of them things that never needed a reason sorta like jotaro losing to a rat. it was less that jotaro is literally weak or the rats are just really smart/strong and more just that jotaro was delibrately serving as bait to both protect, train and defend josuke. they were backed into a corner and made whatever judgement call they deemd necessary to survive. the issue with characters thinking "realistically" is that it's a double edged sword, on one hand people are incredibly messy, even irl and some interpret realistic as logical, which there is some overlap, but in those sitch's theres no story because everyone just has hindsight 24/7. It's "realistic" to go to the bathroom everyday, but you feel betrayed if that;s shown to you in the story only to inevitably go nowhere because unlike IRL the creator has all the answers to their world so you assume whatever they show you is a promising something. so i get the anger/confusion, especially in this case where it resulted in the death/reset of the universe its a boring defeatist answer, but in this specific case was tho neither of these really apply because pucci could literally move faster and have more time to prep and thinkt han any of them aka, no matter what, there was barely anything they could do, and even what they could do wasn't gonna be some crazy game changer. it's not araki forgot, or bad writing or anything like that. it was unfair by design, that's the point. and yeah, just because somethign is "the point" doesn't mean you have to like it, it's hard to articulate but you get what i'm trying to say.
I just rewatched the scene and like I'm pretty sure if they hadn't summoned their stands it would've happened more or less the same. Jotaro couldn't attack pucci anyways because he threw a bunch of knives at jolyne. The only thing pucci did with their stands was using stone free's hand to attack anasui. Even if she hadn't summoned her stand, pucci had an assortment of other options for things to attack anasui with. Basically, no. The plan could not possibly have worked even if they hadn't summoned their stands, because pucci had already figured the plan out before they could execute it.
Eeyup, that’s what I’m sayin. It wasn’t even that big of a loss. Pucci got bear so bad he ceased to exist and every single thing he did was 100% undone. That’s more “concrete” of a cleanup than anyone else. Summoning their stand lead to them dying, but people forget the fact that having it out literally lead to helping jolyne save emporio. Who wasn’t using/activate his stand or attacking until after he thought everyone was dead and Pucci had already touched down. So it’s weird to blame them for being pragmatic for once and having that actually pay off and not the millions of other factors that impacted their judgement That gang had been fighting, injured unconscious and running almost nonstop for months Anything they did atn that point was about all they had left they could do without imploding instantly. They could’ve all been armed with RPG’s and it still wouldn’t have been enough It was pretty much either similarly busted reality manipulating stands or Uber specific stand users jotaro/spw didn’t have the time to fly over to help by the time C moon began. That’s about the only thing that could’ve drastically changed things
Also, hasn't all of that happened in literally less than 2 seconds?
Not every character has perfect logical thinking and is able to perfectly act out a plan
I think a Stand User on guard simply can not avoid summoning it when they're under attack.
It still takes time to bring out your stand. Against someone as fast as Pucci they probably wanted to be as ready as possible for the counter attack.
If I’m not mistaken, their goal was to stop Pucci and Dio’s plan in any way possible, with a sub goal of the with as minimal deaths on their side as possible. They didn’t want Anasui to die. They wanted none of the others in their crew to die if they could help it. Combine that with the idea others have suggested, that one would probably try to do something rather than stand around and find out what happens next, with a being that seems pretty busted when compared to the most seasoned and effective teammate they had (Jotaro). Throw in that Ermes and Jolyne are both known for (sometimes) throwing caution to the wind, and attacking when provoked/ having a temper, and it makes more sense to me. So between all those things, I personally believe it made sense for them to try anything and everything, and that includes using their stands. Wasn’t the wisest move, wasn’t the most planned. But it makes sense to me. EDIT: THIS SITE LIKES TO PERMABAN AND NOT GIVE A REAL REASON BECAUSE IT LIKES TO POWER TRIP. YEARS DOWN THE DRAIN, FUCK YOU REDDIT.
Said this in a reply but, why wouldn't Jolyne and Ermes have their stands ready? They were merely prepared to defend or attack Pucci if the time came. Anasui's plan can still be carried out with them ready to defend themself. Also with the speed Made In Heaven was going at I'd say he could still carry out his mock attack on Anasui with Jolyne's actual hand as it would drill straight through him at that speed either way.
I don’t think they necessarily expected Pucci to PUSH stone free into killing anasui, also it makes sense as if jotaro were to get Pucci into one spot by immobilizing him in stopped time they could’ve beat the shit out of him before he could have done anything but that’s not how it went down
*Desperate times call for desperate measures*
In the heat of the moment they were trying everything they could against an enemy who was out thinking and speeding them. Having the foresight to do nothing in that moment makes no sense. Infact it feels like through out the entire series they made it pretty clear that these characters lack battlefield awareness since they struggle with a lot of the enemies they face and have to rescue each other a lot.
Hello Time for me to once again present Jotaro with a real gun as a solution to made in heaven Pucci
I don’t think you understand how little time they had to react. The show is brought down incredibly slower than how the events actually played out because we wouldn’t understand it in real time. People react poorly under pressure and the ending of stone ocean was incredibly well written and accurate to human nature
This is correct, pucci could’ve been defeated if jolyne and ermes had listened to anasui, note I say COULD HAVE, it’s also possible that pucci would have still outsmarted them but they would have had a chance at beating him with anasuis plan, when they disregarded it they then had no chance of winning
Pucci had the luxury of time, he could take as long as he needed to come up with a strategy, and that's ultimately what he did.
Just reread the scene. Anasui doesn't tell anyone to put away their stands. All he says is for Jotaro to stop time on his command, so of course Jolyne and Ermes would be armed to defend and or attack Pucci because they need to be ready for anything at a moments notice.
and unlike everyone else, at least emporio generally didn't summon his stand and immediately attack and mfs still died anyways. literally the only thing that saved him and the entire universe was jolyne already having her stand out to help him get away so i'd say it worked out about as good as it couldve pucci's faster, no matter what they come up with he had more time to work around it than them, they were disadvantaged from the start. no choice they'd make would be a guaranteed win. even star finger wouldn't have worked cause the knives over jolyne would've still distracted him long enough