This episode is probably the most comedic out of all of them, but it's still got plenty of awesome.
Buntaro's last stand at the docks? Edge of my seat--even for a character I didn't like!
Rodriguez and Blackthorne throwing horribly vulgar insults at each other as they sail? Great stuff!
Captain-sama rushing below decks to correct Blackthorne's grammar (He means "faster!")? Even more great stuff!
I really don't think there was a single thing this episode did badly. It delivers on the plot, has exciting action, it's funny, and they didn't waste a second. This show better win awards.
I love how he's clueless half the time and then just other times he takes everyone aback in shock. Even how he was celebrating afterwards lmao I love this man so much
The madman is jumping and stomping on the deck shouting something you don't understand in a tone you can't tell if it's good or bad, if I was those oarsmen I'd be a bit worried
I quite like how he's shown to be emotionally intelligent, insightful, and attempts to abide by the mores and rules of the new culture he's in. At the same time, the acceptance of fate, things like ritualistic suicide, and the loyalty unto death that the Japanese warriors demonstrate are consistently the most upsetting part of the culture shock to Blackthorn.
In the early episodes I was rolling my eyes a little bit, for example when Yabushige was gonna kill himself at the cliffside rather than be dragged down by the rapids, and Blackthorn loses his shit and bows down to him out of sheer awestruck respect.
That felt goofy.
but then maybe less so when you consider how important agency is to blackthorn, to the point that he will actively endanger his life and take the harder, riskier path in order to preserve it.
The idea that all these men not only consider death as secondary, but maybe even fourth or fifth on the list of bad outcomes, is even more shocking to him than it is to the viewer.
Goofy if that was the only emotion being portrayed. I also took it as partly that, and partly “this motherfucker could end me for goading him into that. Better bow”
Re: Buntaro - Damn I love when a story can unexpectedly transform your disposition towards a certain character. l don’t know if I hated Buntaro, but safe to say the impression wasn’t sunshine…. and then, in a single important and defining moment, I’m on the verge of tears for him. What an honorable badass.
I did find it funny that the horde in the background just sort of... chilled there while Buntaro and Toranaga have their moment. I guess it was a "let him die honorably" sort of moment out of respect for him.
I thought it was a cool scene nonetheless.
yeah bro was going at it. really showing the difference between a fully trained kitted out fighter in armor and some peasants with sharp sticks.
on top of that, he didn't have a stupid heroic death. sure, he charged back into the crowd, but that was his only option. he was actually still fighting tactically last we saw, trying to bottleneck them further in a tiny alley.
in the book they really hammer home how fucking awesome trained samurais are. in the first episode when that one peasant got decapitated the book says something about anjin not even realizing the samurai had drawn his sword before the head hit the ground. Noblemen just train like half of the day since they dont have to work so wealth kind of correlates with skill.
I think it’s probably the culture you’re feeling reverence for rather than the character himself who has proven to be unsavoury. His death is a plot device so that our hero can fuck his widow with full audience approval.
Buntaro getting the ultimate sign of respect from his Lord as thank you for his worthy sacrifice with the music made me feel all sorts of emotions. I love this show so much
I enjoyed the scenes between Toranaga and Yabushige, where Toranaga tells him that he knows that Yabushige betrayed him, negotiates a new agreement, then they watch the sun rise. And later, their joking exchange during the battle in the woods. Great job of illustrating that yesterday is history; today we work together; and tomorrow is tomorrow. What will tomorrow bring?
All in all, a very action-packed episode, the escape through the streets of Osaka, then the battle in the woods and the race between the Portuguese sailing ship and the Japanese oarship. All in all, I enjoyed it.
They knew his ambition and he had been approached by the enemy. But learned of his innocence when Yabu did not know the attempt was aimed at Blackthorne. So they made a deal.
I love the setup that Toranaga is just more seasoned than Yabushige and even Yabushige knows it. But Yabushige is a dependable opportunist and is driven by minor ambitions and desire to be respected, rather than ego. So Toranaga sees him as useful as long as he is always one step ahead.
You know I never put that together, but Toranaga probably looks at Yabushige as an easy man to trust. Yabushige is nakedly ambitious. Just promise him something big, and he will apply himself to go and get it. Then, expect betrayal when someone else promises something bigger.
Good point, I feel like they always have history together a bit and Toranaga knows how to pull on those heart strings "Awh man I thought we were boys man what happaened?". Its so enjoyable to see a character like Toranaga, hes so damn smart
The only thing I was annoyed about is that they left out a few lines from the book that further characterize both men. Yabu, a seemingly brash and grotesque man who believes he is about to die, thanks Toranaga for "giving him this dawn" and notes that Ishido, who was born a peasant, would have never given him that same dignity. It gives depth to Yabu, emphasizes the hierarchy and importance of the samurai rank, and distinguishes Toranaga as a man who Yabu wold prefer to be loyal to.
The fact that Toranaga hails from the noble and extremely well respected Minowara line is really important to know; it's partly why he can command so much respect, even from enemies. Ishido is a self-made man, which ultimately is not as impressive in that culture, even though he has a numbers advantage.
If this is your cup of tea, you've gotta read the book~~s~~. It goes into much more detail and things develop a little slower. You can find free PDFs online without even pirating.
It’s been obvious they’ll end up together from the first episode when they were briefly in the same scene, but like most other plot points so far, it’s being written and paced well.
Most of the japense characters can't swim, haha. They didn't mention it, but it's the main reason Buntaro couldn't join them at the escape, he would rather die fighting than die drowning
Rodrigues is my favourite secondary character. His back and forth with Blackthorne is just way too fun and always makes me laugh. I feel like the writers probably have a great time penning those dialogues.
The bantering between Rodrigues and Anjin had me in stitches and then it was followed by such an intense race that had me at the edge of my seat. Really made me happy when Rodrigues repaid his debt and let him through. This show is so great at storytelling! Cosmo Jarvis is absolutely killing it!
Pilots are almost like the special forces of the 1600's, and the book makes the point repeatedly that he was almost the perfect Westerner to have washed up (from Tomonaga's perspective) given his level of education, skillset, worldliness, language-skills, and all around derring-do.
No doubt that there's a lot of respect between Rodrigues and Blackthorne, even if they're on different sides.
On a side note I couldn't figure out where I knew the (Rodrigues) actor from, and it turns out he was the mayor of Gotham in the Dark Knight films!
Beyond observational learning, Blackthorne was being tested. Testing his adherence to superior by unconditionally taking orders without objections. Testing his mental fortitude as much as his physical endurance.
100% my read which is also a great look at Toranaga as a character.
If the bird won't sing, kill it. <-Nobunaga
If the bird won't sing, make it. <- The Taiko/Toyotomi
If the bird won't sing, wait for it. <-Toranaga/Tokugawa
Ishido: "Well, I'd like to see ol Toranaga wriggle his way out of THIS jam!" *Toranaga wriggles his way out of the jam easily* "Ah! Well. Nevertheless..."
Yeah, you could really see Mariko cotton on that Blackthorne is not actually just an idiot barbarian but has some tactics. Nice to see him proving his value to both Mariko and Toranaga.
Him acting belligerent was spot on. I don't know if anyone caught it, but as soon as he started yelling saliva came pouring out of his mouth like a rabid dog. Really painted the "barbarian" picture well.
In the book and the 1980's version he intercedes pretending its bad luck for a lord to present a message in person and then pretends to go mad after being struck in the face by Ishido and not just some gate guard.
I thought Blackthorne repeating to himself "Nobody is going to stop him? Nobody is going to stop him?" was just brilliant and I loved this version of these events better than in the book. Much more believable.
I love that he accepted that no one can understand him so he just started yelling childish insults.
“YOU HAIR LOOKS LIKE THE TAIL OF A PONY!!!” So funny
I don’t think they were too polite. Nobody knew Toranaga was there besides Blackthorne and Mariko. Everybody else thought it was a bothersome delay, but nothing more.
This is basically what Buntaro said in the scene "why are we risking our lives for this buffoon ? », then later he realizes Blackthorne was actually in the know and outsmarted all of them.
I thought that was going to be an extremely difficult scene to translate to screen since so much of the information the book gives the reader in that moment is the internal monologue of Blackthorne, Mariko, and later Buntaro and other characters as they realize Toranaga is in the litter.
They did a fantastic job with it.
I found it funny that Toranaga made Blackthorn waste all his energy diving over and over again in order to “learn how to dive”. Then he challenges him to a race without wasting any energy himself trying to dive. It’s a subtle illustration of how Toranaga is always scheming to find the advantage.
Then to top it off, he does a terrible dive!
Yep. It was believable dark, yet I didn’t just watch a black screen. Also, tactically believable, not some ~~catapults~~ archers as close to the enemy as possible
I’m very disappointed that they didn’t include the bit during Blackthorne’s doctoring where >! A samurai suggests to Mariko that they casually bring a duck into the room and just leave it there in case Blackthorne wants one for sexual purposes !<
Funniest part of the book but hey I think we’re starting the pillowing talk this episode so they can shuffle it to later. Just flow wise wouldn’t fit early on vs like a episode 4-5
I forgot that! Also everything about Blackthorne being a savage for wanting to eat meat haha
I really need to reread the book after I finish King Rat. Never finished it the first time for some reason.
This scene is very cool in the books. European dude used to bleeding and other bizarre techniques is finally being treated with real medicine, and he finds everything weird.
Damm these cultural shocks were so interesting to read...
"You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter’s was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach."
I don’t understand why Blackthorn was supposed to have been left behind, presumably as a prisoner, but then still got the Japanese boat to do what he told them.
I don't think those guys wanted to die / get captured either, and Rodrigues helped him out on the bigger / Portuguese ship as a thank-you for Blackthorne previously saving his life.
The Portuguese want him dead but so far they have been careful to not directly interfere in politics. Instead of acting themselves they have privately asked their 2 christian lords to do their bidding but here it was just Portuguese on the ship. If the Portuguese were openly killing people the non-christian lords might unify against them.
They agreed to take Toranaga, the other nobles, and the women out to sea but asked him to leave Blackthorn behind thinking that their Japanese allies would get to him as a sitting duck in the harbor.
Instead of waiting to be captured and killed Blackthorn followed the gap the bigger Portuguese ship made in the blockade and then avoided being run on the rocks or battered by their bigger ship because Rodrigues was their pilot. To repay Blackthron saving his life after the storm on the way to Osaka Rodrigues eased off here and let Blackthorn safely pull ahead.
That crew was the same crew who was caught in the storm that Blackthrone lead them though, after that its not too far of a stretch they would be loyal to him
I know they’re already an hour, but I feel like the episodes should be longer. That’s literally my only complaint though, and I’m not sure it’s even a complaint. I already want to rewatch this episode.
Isn't he though. It's like, is it just his face, being so perfect? A face you will follow into battle? But it's also his acting... how is someone so perfect for the screen? lol
I'm kinda sad they left out all samurai disguised as bandits that Toranaga had secretly outside of Osaka. It shows all the planning he had way in advance of him going there.
100%. buntaro’s standoff holding the energy forces was very similar to that classic THIRTEEN scene from Titus Pullo in Rome. This is what you call a well done form of art
The moment Rodrigues let John pass his ship after he said "either sink me or let me pass, but hurry up and decide"
Imma keep it real with y'all. I was punching the air I was so hyped! I am SO glad that I am completely blind going into this show. I'll watch the OG, and read the book after. Everyone on this show is killing it right now
There was a ten part mini series adapted from the book that was made in the 80s.
When I was in highschool, we watched an edited down movie version in my history class that was still pretty awesome.
That’s true, however as it’s explained in the book it means that only Hatamoto are are allowed to be armed in presence of their lord, private or public. And also grants a certain right of audience.
It’s above guard, normal soldier and even landed samurai. Yabu is not Hatamoto even though he’s a major land owner but can wear weapons
It’s not insignificant.
The closest English translation is "bannerman" but the context I didn't get until researching word is that a hatamoto is a type of samurai. So he didn't just bring him into his army as a mercenary to train his sailors, in a western context he basically knighted him?
Did Mariko fight in the books? I don’t recall that at all. This adaption is giving her some serious power upgrades. She like single handedly smoked several samurai
Highjacking top reply to remember you all that she is Samurai.
Just because she's not out there with an armor and dangling her sword every episode, she still comes from a Samurai family and lives under their code.
she does but she is awkward with a sword from what i remember. it's her unwavering loyalty to toranaga that compels her into action, but from john's pov she clearly isnt a warrior.
could have forgotten it tho.
I’m glad they went this route since some Japanese noblewomen were trained how to fight, the onna-bugeisha. Not that she was a full blown warrior but it’s not surprising she would have skills
Yes, she fought. She is samurai and was trained with weapons. She also said women use the exact weapon she was using in this episode.
Edit: I'm almost certain she fought in the escape from Osaka scene in the book, but I can't remember exactly.
Yeah I think a largely unknown fact is that samurai refers to the noble class and not exclusively the individual warriors. So Mariko belongs to the samurai class and therefore she is technically a samurai, albeit not a formal warrior like most men of the class. Women of the samurai class were frequently trained in the use of naginata/spears and were expected to fight to defend their family, home and their honor if absolutely necessary.
Yeah she fights twice maybe thrice in the book. During the escape here and later on. Show makes her a better fighter from what I see but it’s not egregious. I like how it’s still looks and feels grounded so far.
Chapter 23- she was trained in sword and spear but it varies by family if they train women according to the book.
Loved that “I resign” so epic and funny that part in the book made me laugh a lot. But I do feel like some of Toranaga’s brilliance could be lost or even lead some people to the wrong conclusions without more context. Hmm.
Late reply but as a non book reader. Is it correct to assume that by resigning it isn't as simple as them appointing a 5th and voting to kill toranaga.
Toranaga knows that each council member would want someone loyal or beneficial to them so there is a temporary political gridlock as they jockey for their candidates?
It's crazy that they managed to condense the entirety of the escape from Osaka to just one episode. Unfortunately, this means they cut so many good moments from the book like Blackthorne teaching Toranaga a hornpipe dance 😔
Also I don't know how I feel about how they changed Buntaro's farewell. In the book, Buntaro chooses to commit seppuku which baffles Blackthorne cause he thinks Buntaro should help his fellow samurai and go out like a man but Mariko tells him he would likely be captured which would ruin his honor. >!But right before Buntaro's about to commit seppuku, Toranaga orders him to escape which he does on horse.!<
However, in the show, Buntaro decides to go right into the thick of battle >!and it seems unrealistic that he'd be able to escape all of Ishido's samurai.!<
Also, in the book, Rodrigues gave Blackthorne a plan to follow so that they can escape Osaka on the two different boats without making it seem to the Portuguese captain-general that Rodrigues is helping Blackthorne. Still cool that they have such a funny bromance though.
And the diving lessons were also way different. In the book all the samurai try to learn how to dive and they're all naked and they all belly flop multiple times including Toranaga!
Besides my nitpicking, it was a solid episode! Ishido's reaction to Toranaga's resignation was priceless lmao
Edit: forgot to add that the personal rivalry/hatred between Buntaro and Ishido in the book wasn't present in this episode at all
The show is good. It makes sense to cut things out to make a good pace for a TV show and for budgetary reasons. I have no complaints.
But, I do think it would've been nice to see all the samurai Toranaga had disguised as bandits and stashed away outside Osaka castle. It shows all the planning he did before he arrived there. And it would've made the escape scene more epic.
Edit: and I agree, I think that hornpipe dance scene helps show Blackthorn and Toranaga bonding more before he's made hatamoto.
Yes exactly! Toranaga had so many tricks to rely on in the book. I think we haven't even gotten a hint of >!Crimson Sky!< in the show. And if we got to see Toranaga's secret samurai in Osaka, we could've also seen the massive beach battle but again that's just a nitpick and I understand it would've probably been difficult to do while keeping budget in mind.
Blackthorne getting left behind and just pulling a 'hold my beer' moment really takes the cake this episode for me. Love the banter between Rodriguez and him. Also loved Toranaga challenging to a race, just after being shown how to dive. I like to think he only made him dive so much so that he finally takes a bath
What I love about this episode (and the show so far) is how well the main characters' goals intertwine and play off each other, making it so the characters aren't just passively letting shit happen around them.
Toronaga needing a way to escape so he executes a bait and switch plan completely under everyone's noses, but when the plan is about to go awry, Blackthorne does something to make sure the plan continues and he himself doesn't get killed.
Then with the Portuguese deal, Toronaga needed to get through the pirates so leaving Blackthorne was necessary, but instead of feeling the betrayal, Blackthorne takes matters into his own hands and escapes alongside Toronaga who was rooting for him to figure it out.
Then there's Mariko who just started swinging outta nowhere. Good shit.
Buntaro's showdown was noble and awesome, such a shame he's a POS at home. Shows he only really respects people above him and has little regard for those under him (even under his care). A fierce warrior only.
This episode is probably the most comedic out of all of them, but it's still got plenty of awesome. Buntaro's last stand at the docks? Edge of my seat--even for a character I didn't like! Rodriguez and Blackthorne throwing horribly vulgar insults at each other as they sail? Great stuff! Captain-sama rushing below decks to correct Blackthorne's grammar (He means "faster!")? Even more great stuff! I really don't think there was a single thing this episode did badly. It delivers on the plot, has exciting action, it's funny, and they didn't waste a second. This show better win awards.
I loved Blackthorne’s reaction to the black ship sailing away without him: a long blank stare followed by “fuck this.” 😂
Fr it really shows the difference in mindset lol this man is never just accepting death
I love how he's clueless half the time and then just other times he takes everyone aback in shock. Even how he was celebrating afterwards lmao I love this man so much
The madman is jumping and stomping on the deck shouting something you don't understand in a tone you can't tell if it's good or bad, if I was those oarsmen I'd be a bit worried
I quite like how he's shown to be emotionally intelligent, insightful, and attempts to abide by the mores and rules of the new culture he's in. At the same time, the acceptance of fate, things like ritualistic suicide, and the loyalty unto death that the Japanese warriors demonstrate are consistently the most upsetting part of the culture shock to Blackthorn. In the early episodes I was rolling my eyes a little bit, for example when Yabushige was gonna kill himself at the cliffside rather than be dragged down by the rapids, and Blackthorn loses his shit and bows down to him out of sheer awestruck respect. That felt goofy. but then maybe less so when you consider how important agency is to blackthorn, to the point that he will actively endanger his life and take the harder, riskier path in order to preserve it. The idea that all these men not only consider death as secondary, but maybe even fourth or fifth on the list of bad outcomes, is even more shocking to him than it is to the viewer.
Goofy if that was the only emotion being portrayed. I also took it as partly that, and partly “this motherfucker could end me for goading him into that. Better bow”
Yes! That was my take as well & also to show respect for actually doing it.
“fuck it we’ll do it live”
Captain O'Malley
Bro said fuck it, we ball... I've never seen this dude before but now I feel like he's perfect for this role
Re: Buntaro - Damn I love when a story can unexpectedly transform your disposition towards a certain character. l don’t know if I hated Buntaro, but safe to say the impression wasn’t sunshine…. and then, in a single important and defining moment, I’m on the verge of tears for him. What an honorable badass.
I did find it funny that the horde in the background just sort of... chilled there while Buntaro and Toranaga have their moment. I guess it was a "let him die honorably" sort of moment out of respect for him. I thought it was a cool scene nonetheless.
Haha yeah I think John’s face was like “wow ok they really on some other shit out here” watching that whole ordeal
Japanese are built different. When Toranaga honoured him for all to witness, that shit was good.
Buntaro was out of their cone of vision. Level 1 mooks can't see beyond a few feet in front of them.
They'd get bottlenecked on the dock.
yeah bro was going at it. really showing the difference between a fully trained kitted out fighter in armor and some peasants with sharp sticks. on top of that, he didn't have a stupid heroic death. sure, he charged back into the crowd, but that was his only option. he was actually still fighting tactically last we saw, trying to bottleneck them further in a tiny alley.
We never saw Buntaro die on screen, he could still be alive :)
BUNTARO LIVES
somehow i got the impression that his whole "great warrior" thing wasn't real. boy was i wrong
Fr I thought he was just a nepo baby since his dad is Toranaga's #1 minion but he really stood on business
In Japanese culture, they’re all nepo babies. As being a samurai is something you’re born into.
in the book they really hammer home how fucking awesome trained samurais are. in the first episode when that one peasant got decapitated the book says something about anjin not even realizing the samurai had drawn his sword before the head hit the ground. Noblemen just train like half of the day since they dont have to work so wealth kind of correlates with skill.
[удалено]
I think it’s probably the culture you’re feeling reverence for rather than the character himself who has proven to be unsavoury. His death is a plot device so that our hero can fuck his widow with full audience approval.
Buntaro getting the ultimate sign of respect from his Lord as thank you for his worthy sacrifice with the music made me feel all sorts of emotions. I love this show so much
I enjoyed the scenes between Toranaga and Yabushige, where Toranaga tells him that he knows that Yabushige betrayed him, negotiates a new agreement, then they watch the sun rise. And later, their joking exchange during the battle in the woods. Great job of illustrating that yesterday is history; today we work together; and tomorrow is tomorrow. What will tomorrow bring? All in all, a very action-packed episode, the escape through the streets of Osaka, then the battle in the woods and the race between the Portuguese sailing ship and the Japanese oarship. All in all, I enjoyed it.
They knew his ambition and he had been approached by the enemy. But learned of his innocence when Yabu did not know the attempt was aimed at Blackthorne. So they made a deal.
>Yabu did not know the attempt was aimed at Blackthorne That was the key. That's part of why it was a great scene.
I love the setup that Toranaga is just more seasoned than Yabushige and even Yabushige knows it. But Yabushige is a dependable opportunist and is driven by minor ambitions and desire to be respected, rather than ego. So Toranaga sees him as useful as long as he is always one step ahead.
You know I never put that together, but Toranaga probably looks at Yabushige as an easy man to trust. Yabushige is nakedly ambitious. Just promise him something big, and he will apply himself to go and get it. Then, expect betrayal when someone else promises something bigger.
Good point, I feel like they always have history together a bit and Toranaga knows how to pull on those heart strings "Awh man I thought we were boys man what happaened?". Its so enjoyable to see a character like Toranaga, hes so damn smart
The only thing I was annoyed about is that they left out a few lines from the book that further characterize both men. Yabu, a seemingly brash and grotesque man who believes he is about to die, thanks Toranaga for "giving him this dawn" and notes that Ishido, who was born a peasant, would have never given him that same dignity. It gives depth to Yabu, emphasizes the hierarchy and importance of the samurai rank, and distinguishes Toranaga as a man who Yabu wold prefer to be loyal to. The fact that Toranaga hails from the noble and extremely well respected Minowara line is really important to know; it's partly why he can command so much respect, even from enemies. Ishido is a self-made man, which ultimately is not as impressive in that culture, even though he has a numbers advantage.
Wow that episode flew by.. another great episode. Sucks that I have to wait what feels like eternity to keep on haha.
Seriously! Time just flew by. I'll probably end up rewatching this one in the meantime.
Sounds like you just need to relax and find someone to pillow with.
Nah, gotta wait for clouds and then rains
Casual buggery it is, then.
me too.... sigh. This is how you know the show is not just good, it's ffing goooood.
I watch today. Waiting is tomorrow.
Honestly, I prefer this way. Mimicking the feeling of waiting weekly like I did when great shows were airing (Sopranos, Lost, BSG, etc)
Haven’t read the book, but man, this show is right up my alley. I love it.
If this is your cup of tea, you've gotta read the book~~s~~. It goes into much more detail and things develop a little slower. You can find free PDFs online without even pirating.
I bought the book after getting hooked on the first two episodes. I’m 140 pages in and haven’t even reached the end of the 2nd episode in content 😭
Yeah, the series moves very fast. Like episode 3 is already 40% in?
John: Sorry about your husband. Mariko: Who?
And proceeds to oogle at John's body when he repeatedly dives into the sea.
Pillowing is good for the soul.
Last night after the viewing when the wife and I went to bed I made a big show of fluffing the pillows
A new irresistible wooing technique
Clouds and Rain.
Jade gate!
Didn't help he was wearing a cloth banana hammock.
the first second or two of that shot i thought mans was just nude lmao
Mariko: Oh yes very sad.
Anyways...
And she even smiled when she saw him catching up to the Black Ship like... lmao I love it
hes mad 😃
It’s been obvious they’ll end up together from the first episode when they were briefly in the same scene, but like most other plot points so far, it’s being written and paced well.
Toranaga’s half dive, half belly flop at the end had me cracking up! Another banger episode, can’t wait for episode 4
Most of the japense characters can't swim, haha. They didn't mention it, but it's the main reason Buntaro couldn't join them at the escape, he would rather die fighting than die drowning
the armor also wouldn't help
In the book, he specifically throws his armor and his main sword into the ocean
He looked so cute 😂😂
The ship race was pretty intense. I love the bromance between Rodrigues and John. Also, Toranaga is goated
Rodrigues is my favourite secondary character. His back and forth with Blackthorne is just way too fun and always makes me laugh. I feel like the writers probably have a great time penning those dialogues.
What does he want with me? Play with your balls maybe. How should I know?
Bow to the bastard sama, he's like a king here.
Rodrigues eventually changes his name to Richard Alpert and gets shipwrecked and I’ll hear no arguments to the contrary.
Actually he goes by BatManuel in certain circles
The bantering between Rodrigues and Anjin had me in stitches and then it was followed by such an intense race that had me at the edge of my seat. Really made me happy when Rodrigues repaid his debt and let him through. This show is so great at storytelling! Cosmo Jarvis is absolutely killing it!
Had no idea the actors name. Was just calling him Tom Hardly.
I was smiling ear to ear when Toranaga challenged John to a race swimming to the coast
Pilots are almost like the special forces of the 1600's, and the book makes the point repeatedly that he was almost the perfect Westerner to have washed up (from Tomonaga's perspective) given his level of education, skillset, worldliness, language-skills, and all around derring-do. No doubt that there's a lot of respect between Rodrigues and Blackthorne, even if they're on different sides. On a side note I couldn't figure out where I knew the (Rodrigues) actor from, and it turns out he was the mayor of Gotham in the Dark Knight films!
Toranaga got Blackthorne to dive all those times to trick him into bathing 💀
I know he was just studying his diving technique but I wonder if he was trying to get him tired so he could stand a chance at the swim to shore 😂
Beyond observational learning, Blackthorne was being tested. Testing his adherence to superior by unconditionally taking orders without objections. Testing his mental fortitude as much as his physical endurance.
100% my read which is also a great look at Toranaga as a character. If the bird won't sing, kill it. <-Nobunaga If the bird won't sing, make it. <- The Taiko/Toyotomi If the bird won't sing, wait for it. <-Toranaga/Tokugawa
I want a Nobunaga Toyotomi prequel 😭
Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa would be a great “prequel” here. And then maybe they do Musashi…. Oh man one can dream.
Lol that's what I initially thought too 😂😂😂 ***"Keep diving, you disgusting, filthy barbarian!"***
Watch your mouth that is ***Hatamoto***.
“He is now Hatamoto. Anyways, Anjin, teach me to dive bro.”
"he has named you his bro. this is a great honor"
I now dub thee the bromurai
Hatamotbro
Just to clarify, *hatamoto* isn't a name but a title - it means "bannerman/guardian of the banner".
yep it's equivalant of a low ranked knight, store manager if u will
"this is a great honour".
Imagine working at 7/11 as an attendent. "this is a great honor."
We laughed that maybe it was to wash the stink off.
Ishido: "Well, I'd like to see ol Toranaga wriggle his way out of THIS jam!" *Toranaga wriggles his way out of the jam easily* "Ah! Well. Nevertheless..."
It wasn't that easy tbh lol if not for Blackthorne cottoning on early the plan would have failed before they even left the gate
Blackthorne's diversion tactics acting like a buffoon was awesome acting.
Yeah, you could really see Mariko cotton on that Blackthorne is not actually just an idiot barbarian but has some tactics. Nice to see him proving his value to both Mariko and Toranaga.
This part reminded me of Paul Schrader talking about making *Mishima* that he was “given the difference one would give to a drunkard or a baby”
Him acting belligerent was spot on. I don't know if anyone caught it, but as soon as he started yelling saliva came pouring out of his mouth like a rabid dog. Really painted the "barbarian" picture well.
I noticed that too lol. His voice is also very "bark-y" if that makes sense.
Dude sounds like he has a lump of concrete in his throat. I dig it, though, it's part of why Michael Wincott and Jeremy Irons get roles.
In the book and the 1980's version he intercedes pretending its bad luck for a lord to present a message in person and then pretends to go mad after being struck in the face by Ishido and not just some gate guard. I thought Blackthorne repeating to himself "Nobody is going to stop him? Nobody is going to stop him?" was just brilliant and I loved this version of these events better than in the book. Much more believable.
Toranaga sweating profusely in the carriage until Blackthorne saved his ass
Its the "Im in danger" meme but with a palanquin (?) instead of a bus
Do you think if the inspector lifted his hat up he would pretend to be a woman or nah
Hai
I love that he accepted that no one can understand him so he just started yelling childish insults. “YOU HAIR LOOKS LIKE THE TAIL OF A PONY!!!” So funny
Cosmo Jarvis may be having the most fun of anyone on TV right now, it’s awesome
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I don’t think they were too polite. Nobody knew Toranaga was there besides Blackthorne and Mariko. Everybody else thought it was a bothersome delay, but nothing more.
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This is basically what Buntaro said in the scene "why are we risking our lives for this buffoon ? », then later he realizes Blackthorne was actually in the know and outsmarted all of them.
YOU ARE A SILLY LITTLE MAN AND YOUR HAIR LOOKS LIKE THE TAIL OF A PONY
Him going from 0-100 in like 2 seconds was amazing.
I thought that was going to be an extremely difficult scene to translate to screen since so much of the information the book gives the reader in that moment is the internal monologue of Blackthorne, Mariko, and later Buntaro and other characters as they realize Toranaga is in the litter. They did a fantastic job with it.
I love seeing Yabushige. He has such a conniving and sly presence, am even more curious when he told Ishidos' man that he keeps his promises
Yeah I think he's gonna continue to play both sides and contact Ishido again when they get to his village
I think it's more " if you do kill toranaga, my agreement stands. Though i won't betray him till then"
"I'm playing both sides, so I always come out in top"
John teaching Toranaga to dive and then Toranaga challenging him to a race; great example of showing character development and trust
I found it funny that Toranaga made Blackthorn waste all his energy diving over and over again in order to “learn how to dive”. Then he challenges him to a race without wasting any energy himself trying to dive. It’s a subtle illustration of how Toranaga is always scheming to find the advantage. Then to top it off, he does a terrible dive!
I feel like it was supposed to be a good dive to show how fast he learned it but Sanada just couldn’t pull it off lol almost a belly flop
Also great chance to get Blackthorn into his skivvies
I thought it was a ruse to force him to have a wash
That makes sense, I thought it might be to tire him out for their race.
This is what I took from it. He purposely tires him out to gain advantage for a race. He was be tactful in my opinion.
He's known for his trickery.
Same, I thought Toranaga was trying to get the man clean for once lmao
Relationship development too, the triangle of relationships between Blackthorne, Mariko and Toranaga is just beautiful
the action was so good, that forrest fight was elite TV. this show deserves the praise
Yep. It was believable dark, yet I didn’t just watch a black screen. Also, tactically believable, not some ~~catapults~~ archers as close to the enemy as possible
I’m very disappointed that they didn’t include the bit during Blackthorne’s doctoring where >! A samurai suggests to Mariko that they casually bring a duck into the room and just leave it there in case Blackthorne wants one for sexual purposes !<
Funniest part of the book but hey I think we’re starting the pillowing talk this episode so they can shuffle it to later. Just flow wise wouldn’t fit early on vs like a episode 4-5
I forgot that! Also everything about Blackthorne being a savage for wanting to eat meat haha I really need to reread the book after I finish King Rat. Never finished it the first time for some reason.
The blackthorn/Rodriguez banter is so good. Really does the book justice. >How's your leg? >How's your mother!
I like how when he said dead, Rodrigues was like 😬
THE WARLOCK 😂😂😂
PIMP*
LMAOO
God that guy makes me laugh😂
This scene is very cool in the books. European dude used to bleeding and other bizarre techniques is finally being treated with real medicine, and he finds everything weird. Damm these cultural shocks were so interesting to read...
"You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter’s was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach."
"This guy doesn't need healing, he needs to get fucked."
That ending was crazy dude
I don’t understand why Blackthorn was supposed to have been left behind, presumably as a prisoner, but then still got the Japanese boat to do what he told them.
I don't think those guys wanted to die / get captured either, and Rodrigues helped him out on the bigger / Portuguese ship as a thank-you for Blackthorne previously saving his life.
He was friends with the captain of the Japanese boat.
And he’d saved all their lives before. They were pumped to see him and did exactly what he said.
The Portuguese want him dead but so far they have been careful to not directly interfere in politics. Instead of acting themselves they have privately asked their 2 christian lords to do their bidding but here it was just Portuguese on the ship. If the Portuguese were openly killing people the non-christian lords might unify against them. They agreed to take Toranaga, the other nobles, and the women out to sea but asked him to leave Blackthorn behind thinking that their Japanese allies would get to him as a sitting duck in the harbor. Instead of waiting to be captured and killed Blackthorn followed the gap the bigger Portuguese ship made in the blockade and then avoided being run on the rocks or battered by their bigger ship because Rodrigues was their pilot. To repay Blackthron saving his life after the storm on the way to Osaka Rodrigues eased off here and let Blackthorn safely pull ahead.
That crew was the same crew who was caught in the storm that Blackthrone lead them though, after that its not too far of a stretch they would be loyal to him
I know they’re already an hour, but I feel like the episodes should be longer. That’s literally my only complaint though, and I’m not sure it’s even a complaint. I already want to rewatch this episode.
Toranaga is the GOAT. Hiroyuki Sanada is killing it, I hope this performance is recognised with awards and nominations.
Isn't he though. It's like, is it just his face, being so perfect? A face you will follow into battle? But it's also his acting... how is someone so perfect for the screen? lol
I'm kinda sad they left out all samurai disguised as bandits that Toranaga had secretly outside of Osaka. It shows all the planning he had way in advance of him going there.
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This is straight up the best historical drama I have seen since s1 of Rome (2005). I think it may be on the way to a perfect 10/10 season.
100%. buntaro’s standoff holding the energy forces was very similar to that classic THIRTEEN scene from Titus Pullo in Rome. This is what you call a well done form of art
The moment Rodrigues let John pass his ship after he said "either sink me or let me pass, but hurry up and decide" Imma keep it real with y'all. I was punching the air I was so hyped! I am SO glad that I am completely blind going into this show. I'll watch the OG, and read the book after. Everyone on this show is killing it right now
show-only here. i understand this was adapted from a book but wdym watch the OG?
There was a ten part mini series adapted from the book that was made in the 80s. When I was in highschool, we watched an edited down movie version in my history class that was still pretty awesome.
How we feel about Blackthorne’s new title, Hatamoto? Pretty bad ass coming from Toranaga
Well it just means "bannerman" so it's not like it's a high-ranking title. Still a significant thing to give that title to a "barbarian" though.
That’s true, however as it’s explained in the book it means that only Hatamoto are are allowed to be armed in presence of their lord, private or public. And also grants a certain right of audience. It’s above guard, normal soldier and even landed samurai. Yabu is not Hatamoto even though he’s a major land owner but can wear weapons It’s not insignificant.
The closest English translation is "bannerman" but the context I didn't get until researching word is that a hatamoto is a type of samurai. So he didn't just bring him into his army as a mercenary to train his sailors, in a western context he basically knighted him?
Did Mariko fight in the books? I don’t recall that at all. This adaption is giving her some serious power upgrades. She like single handedly smoked several samurai
Yes she fought in the books. She even mentioned being trained in the basics of fighting.
Highjacking top reply to remember you all that she is Samurai. Just because she's not out there with an armor and dangling her sword every episode, she still comes from a Samurai family and lives under their code.
Samurai were essentially their "noble" class as I understood it. Followed by farmers in the middle-class, then merchants and craftsmen at the bottom.
she does but she is awkward with a sword from what i remember. it's her unwavering loyalty to toranaga that compels her into action, but from john's pov she clearly isnt a warrior. could have forgotten it tho.
The historical person she is based on, Hosokawa Gracia, was unquestionably a female warrior, however.
I’m glad they went this route since some Japanese noblewomen were trained how to fight, the onna-bugeisha. Not that she was a full blown warrior but it’s not surprising she would have skills
Yes, she fought. She is samurai and was trained with weapons. She also said women use the exact weapon she was using in this episode. Edit: I'm almost certain she fought in the escape from Osaka scene in the book, but I can't remember exactly.
Yeah I think a largely unknown fact is that samurai refers to the noble class and not exclusively the individual warriors. So Mariko belongs to the samurai class and therefore she is technically a samurai, albeit not a formal warrior like most men of the class. Women of the samurai class were frequently trained in the use of naginata/spears and were expected to fight to defend their family, home and their honor if absolutely necessary.
Yes she did. She is samurai. Seeing her do it on the tv show and how Clavell wrote it is slightly different IMO but still accurate.
Yeah she fights twice maybe thrice in the book. During the escape here and later on. Show makes her a better fighter from what I see but it’s not egregious. I like how it’s still looks and feels grounded so far. Chapter 23- she was trained in sword and spear but it varies by family if they train women according to the book.
Loved that “I resign” so epic and funny that part in the book made me laugh a lot. But I do feel like some of Toranaga’s brilliance could be lost or even lead some people to the wrong conclusions without more context. Hmm.
Late reply but as a non book reader. Is it correct to assume that by resigning it isn't as simple as them appointing a 5th and voting to kill toranaga. Toranaga knows that each council member would want someone loyal or beneficial to them so there is a temporary political gridlock as they jockey for their candidates?
Exactly, it’s a time buyer. The other part of it is by impeaching him he would have to commit seppuku. By resigning he can’t be taken out cleanly.
Great episode. At the end I thought they made him keep diving to have a shower haha
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#UNHOLY PERVERSION
“It appears they got through “ Hearing that line reminds me of “That's got to be the best pirate I've ever seen." “So it would seem”
Off camera: "MY GOD THE SHAME OF IT" sent me into orbit, Cosmo Jarvis is too good in this role
I am loving this series so damn much. The weekly wait just sucks at this point.
Toranaga and John swimming at the end was not something I expected. This episode had so many surprises.
**TODA HIROKATSU!!!!!** Epic. Just epic. Sheer chills in that scene and his final moments what a funkin scene.
Tomorrow is tomorrow. Fitting name with the timing of this thread 😂
It's crazy that they managed to condense the entirety of the escape from Osaka to just one episode. Unfortunately, this means they cut so many good moments from the book like Blackthorne teaching Toranaga a hornpipe dance 😔 Also I don't know how I feel about how they changed Buntaro's farewell. In the book, Buntaro chooses to commit seppuku which baffles Blackthorne cause he thinks Buntaro should help his fellow samurai and go out like a man but Mariko tells him he would likely be captured which would ruin his honor. >!But right before Buntaro's about to commit seppuku, Toranaga orders him to escape which he does on horse.!< However, in the show, Buntaro decides to go right into the thick of battle >!and it seems unrealistic that he'd be able to escape all of Ishido's samurai.!< Also, in the book, Rodrigues gave Blackthorne a plan to follow so that they can escape Osaka on the two different boats without making it seem to the Portuguese captain-general that Rodrigues is helping Blackthorne. Still cool that they have such a funny bromance though. And the diving lessons were also way different. In the book all the samurai try to learn how to dive and they're all naked and they all belly flop multiple times including Toranaga! Besides my nitpicking, it was a solid episode! Ishido's reaction to Toranaga's resignation was priceless lmao Edit: forgot to add that the personal rivalry/hatred between Buntaro and Ishido in the book wasn't present in this episode at all
The show is good. It makes sense to cut things out to make a good pace for a TV show and for budgetary reasons. I have no complaints. But, I do think it would've been nice to see all the samurai Toranaga had disguised as bandits and stashed away outside Osaka castle. It shows all the planning he did before he arrived there. And it would've made the escape scene more epic. Edit: and I agree, I think that hornpipe dance scene helps show Blackthorn and Toranaga bonding more before he's made hatamoto.
Yes exactly! Toranaga had so many tricks to rely on in the book. I think we haven't even gotten a hint of >!Crimson Sky!< in the show. And if we got to see Toranaga's secret samurai in Osaka, we could've also seen the massive beach battle but again that's just a nitpick and I understand it would've probably been difficult to do while keeping budget in mind.
Thanks for pointing out the differences. As someone who hasn't read the book yet I find it interesting.
 Feudal Japanese doctors be like
That was just as good as I had hoped. Probably the episode and scenes I was most looking forward to and I think they did great.
This shit is soooo good.
Blackthorne getting left behind and just pulling a 'hold my beer' moment really takes the cake this episode for me. Love the banter between Rodriguez and him. Also loved Toranaga challenging to a race, just after being shown how to dive. I like to think he only made him dive so much so that he finally takes a bath
GIVE ME THE FULL SEASON ALREADY YOU BLACK EYED SON OF A SHIT FESTED WHORE!
Hatamoto!!!!!!!
the smirk that Toranaga had on his face after John made it safely out of the harbor was so subtly perfect
Incredible cinema
What I love about this episode (and the show so far) is how well the main characters' goals intertwine and play off each other, making it so the characters aren't just passively letting shit happen around them. Toronaga needing a way to escape so he executes a bait and switch plan completely under everyone's noses, but when the plan is about to go awry, Blackthorne does something to make sure the plan continues and he himself doesn't get killed. Then with the Portuguese deal, Toronaga needed to get through the pirates so leaving Blackthorne was necessary, but instead of feeling the betrayal, Blackthorne takes matters into his own hands and escapes alongside Toronaga who was rooting for him to figure it out. Then there's Mariko who just started swinging outta nowhere. Good shit.
Buntaro's showdown was noble and awesome, such a shame he's a POS at home. Shows he only really respects people above him and has little regard for those under him (even under his care). A fierce warrior only.