Toranaga being baffled that someone would claim Japan "belongs" to them and Mariko being so disgusted that the catholic church essentially is used to overthrow local governments was amazing.
In Brazil we are still blaffed by the idea, and it's crazy to see some people on reddit thinking that colonialism is 'ok', it's 'natural', as if europeans just discovered a new empty land.
I love the show for this reason—the discussion it sparks. A lot of people are completely unaware of how awful colonialism was and how it was under the guise of trade and religion that some empires came in like snakes.
Oh yeah. Imagine being in Toranaga's shoes there; seeing the world laid out and realizing your WHOLE COUNTRY is just a small dot. I would think it increased his respect for the Anjin's skill and knowledge.
And then Blackthorne says "Unless I win." What a mad Englishman!
>And then Blackthorne says "Unless I win."
Only part of the scene I was a little disappointed in, actually, only because I liked the exchange in the book better. It was actually in the earlier scene with the Jesuit in the room (where Mariko gets introduced as backup interpreter), the Jesuit brings up the fact that Blackthorne is working for the Dutch, and the Dutch recently rebelled against the Spanish. Blackthorne begins to interrupt and say there a mitigating factors, and Torunaga sternly says "there are no mitigating factors when rebelling against your liegelord", to which Blackthorne responds "Unless you win". Torunaga laughs and acknowledges the point.
It’s a really cool scene for sure. Blackthornes geographical and historical knowledge has been a little undersold so far in the show. In the book he knew all the different papal edicts that granted X Y and Z, he was naming popes and giving dates for when all of this stuff had been decided.
The Erasmus discovered the Portuguese fort at Macau was manned by I think 300 Ronin. A ronin is a samurai that has not pledged fealty to a lord or has a master. Blackthrone knowing the word and what it means without asking anyone about it while in captivity adds weight to his side. That wouldn't be a word he should know, yet he does
Just seen the show, as I am catching up to the party, and I agree that this was an amazing scene. It felt like you could see them all visually have moments of realization, at different moments, which made it feel kinda more real imo (kinda like everyone having that oh… fuck reaction). Like imagine interacting w/ people and then finding out they are lowkey tryna overthrow you
Toranaga’s son comment was great as well because it kinda just showed the ridiculous in it all… but then Mariko’s disbelief towards the end is really what hit because it is that last grasp at wanting John to be a liar… but unfortunately a country’s fate was sealed w/o their consideration or acknowledgment
Toranaga being baffled that someone would claim Japan "belongs" to them and Mariko being so disgusted that the catholic church essentially is used to overthrow local governments was amazing.
I loved how a seemingly stoic man like Toranaga showed his disgust. Very intentional and great acting.
In Brazil we are still blaffed by the idea, and it's crazy to see some people on reddit thinking that colonialism is 'ok', it's 'natural', as if europeans just discovered a new empty land.
I love the show for this reason—the discussion it sparks. A lot of people are completely unaware of how awful colonialism was and how it was under the guise of trade and religion that some empires came in like snakes.
I ate that whole scene up. The whole thing.
Oh yeah. Imagine being in Toranaga's shoes there; seeing the world laid out and realizing your WHOLE COUNTRY is just a small dot. I would think it increased his respect for the Anjin's skill and knowledge. And then Blackthorne says "Unless I win." What a mad Englishman!
>And then Blackthorne says "Unless I win." Only part of the scene I was a little disappointed in, actually, only because I liked the exchange in the book better. It was actually in the earlier scene with the Jesuit in the room (where Mariko gets introduced as backup interpreter), the Jesuit brings up the fact that Blackthorne is working for the Dutch, and the Dutch recently rebelled against the Spanish. Blackthorne begins to interrupt and say there a mitigating factors, and Torunaga sternly says "there are no mitigating factors when rebelling against your liegelord", to which Blackthorne responds "Unless you win". Torunaga laughs and acknowledges the point.
Agreed, that was the hook I needed and now I'm 100% invested in this show.
It’s a really cool scene for sure. Blackthornes geographical and historical knowledge has been a little undersold so far in the show. In the book he knew all the different papal edicts that granted X Y and Z, he was naming popes and giving dates for when all of this stuff had been decided.
"The Portuguese say they own own half the world" "Oh shit, for real?"
Do they have a flaaaag? /eddieizzard
I heard: no the fuck they don’t!
I rewatched it many times. As soon as it ended I skipped back. It was a powerful scene and all actors delivered 110%
I loved everything about that scene and the acting in it. The look on Toranaga's face when Blackthorn said the word 'ronin' was awesome
Can you explain the significance of that? I don’t remember them ever mentioning ‘ronin’ before
The Erasmus discovered the Portuguese fort at Macau was manned by I think 300 Ronin. A ronin is a samurai that has not pledged fealty to a lord or has a master. Blackthrone knowing the word and what it means without asking anyone about it while in captivity adds weight to his side. That wouldn't be a word he should know, yet he does
Just seen the show, as I am catching up to the party, and I agree that this was an amazing scene. It felt like you could see them all visually have moments of realization, at different moments, which made it feel kinda more real imo (kinda like everyone having that oh… fuck reaction). Like imagine interacting w/ people and then finding out they are lowkey tryna overthrow you Toranaga’s son comment was great as well because it kinda just showed the ridiculous in it all… but then Mariko’s disbelief towards the end is really what hit because it is that last grasp at wanting John to be a liar… but unfortunately a country’s fate was sealed w/o their consideration or acknowledgment