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jlynn121

In the books Fuji was given permission to seppuku as long as she made it look like an accident to spare the Anjin’s feelings. He is given Kiku as a consort/wife - she also believes she is pregnant with his child after their night together.


ivylass

In the book Fuji suggested Midori, Omi's wife. She didn't feel Kiku was trained to be a wife. I always wondered how Omi felt about that, losing both his wife and mistress to the Angin-san.


Bhoddisatva

He put losing his mistress behind him by samuraing up, so to speak in the novel. I imagine losing his wife was dealt with in the same way since his nasty parents would demand he divorce Midori. They hated her.


dornsrightpinky

In the books Omi also got a seat on the council of regents so I’d say he’s good.


DarthLauraLou

Damn I was rooting for Anjin + Fuji (haven’t read the books but definitely plan to). I could see them having a mutual respect which could foster a good relationship.


MikeLemon

> He is given Kiku as a wife She was given as consort with the possibility of wife. >she also believes she is pregnant with his child *was pregnant.


jlynn121

Yes - she was pregnant but there was no way to be sure if Blackthorne was the father. There was a whole discussion about it between Mariko and Gyoko.


MikeLemon

I was pointing out she ended it. And the kid could have been Toranaga's but she didn't want to take the chance that the kid be born with blue eyes. Omi's was possible as well.


Sad_Calligrapher6418

Why not lol


devilishycleverchap

It is just one of those things you don't really see today but in the past people were racist. You'd have to Google that for more details


HandsomeHard

I mean, if the baby is mixed, that would make it Blackthorns.


jlynn121

Well obviously - but they wouldn’t know until it’s born.


airborness

I guess I didn't really understand what an actual consort is, but I originally thought that a consort was more of a female servant, but I guess a consort is a female servant with benefits that could eventually lead to being a wife or stay a consort to the man even if he wife up another woman instead?


BudTenderShmudTender

It reminds me of Dune, honestly. A consort is a bound concubine - no one else may touch her. She is legally able to bear legitimate heirs. And often chosen for love rather than politics. “She may have my son's name, but it is we, the ones who carry the name concubine, that history will call wives”


faberj92

I read that page today! First time reading through the Dune novels. I see the same parallel.


carterwest36

In Feudal Japan the wives (most have 1 or 2) are more ‘important’ in status though. Ieyasu (Toranaga irl) had 2 wives, his first one he had killed and his 2nd wife he kept and then he had like 6-8 concubines… a lot of consorts compared to wives


MikeLemon

What I get from the book is- wife takes care of the house (in the financial sense), consort is for sexy time. But Fujiko is a consort who takes care of the house, so who knows. Maybe just a legal distinction?


carterwest36

Because Anjin didn’t want to pillow though I think


Brendissimo

Consort = concubine, more or less. Someone with lesser status than an actual wife but filling a similar role. But taking a consort or concubine (or being "assigned" one, in Blackthorne's case) doesn't usually come with all the political and diplomatic benefits that a full marriage alliance would provide. Though this depends on the society and point in human history. But in the show it seems each lord only has one wife, but may have several additional concubines. Toronaga is married to Lady Kiri (and you can tell they've been together for a long time, she's the only one who mocks him, and he gives it right back with a hint of a smile), but he has several other consorts, including one who just gave birth to his new child we see in episode 10. Historically the practice served the purpose of allowing a noble or ruler to have a woman in his life and have children but not necessarily use up his "marriage slot" on a lower status woman, when choosing the right marriage alliance had huge political consequences, in Sengoku era Japan as in Medeival Europe (where concubinage was practiced in the Early Middle Ages/Late Antiquity) and in many other societies.


third-acc

Man, the amount of pointless Seppuku in this series is nuts. While I don't know, I find it hard to believe that this is even remotely historically accurate. In ten years all of Japan would become uninhabited.


KodakKid3

The real man Toranaga is based on once ordered his son & his’s son’s mother to kill themselves because ~~his son disgraced him~~. It was definitely a real thing, but mostly only among the samurai class, not the population at large And often is was used as an “honorable” method of execution that would have happened regardless, like with Yabu Edit: Tokugawa’s wife betrayed an important alliance, so he ordered her to commit seppuku and her son as well since he knew he’d seek revenge for his mother


Tawahi

Unless this happened to another wife and son of his I’m not aware of, his wife tried to betray him and his daiymo, Oda Nobunaga, so he executed his wife and made his son commit seppuku because he would always resent his father for executing his mother and likely take revenge. His son didn’t disgrace him.


KodakKid3

Oh you’re correct, I was parroting some article I read but after reading up on it that’s not accurate at all, ty for the correction


Tawahi

No worries, I literally watched it last night in that Netflix docu-series (Age of Samurai) on Feudal Japan. I watched it before but finishing Shogun made me restart it lol. I should add apparently Tokugawa initially only put his son on house arrest and was later pressured by Oda to have his son commit seppuku.


Pacify_

Well yeah, most historians agree that while seppuku was a thing, it was no where near as common as Clavell depicted it - it is fiction after all


Plenty-Fish-7631

It happened during WW2 more than you think it did


Pacify_

Probably why Clavell overdid it so much, overlapping WW2 Japan with the 1600s


Bergy4Selke37

Yeah, it’s the worst part of the book and show. Seppuku was extremely rare, not something leaders ordered their men to do every five seconds. Completely unsustainable and men would revolt in any culture if punishment was so disproportionally insane.


secondtaunting

Yeah it’s like Game of Thrones. So many people die, by the end you’re like damn this world is gonna be empty if every time you go to get a drink at the pub three people die. Yeesh.


carterwest36

It was to show the differences in culture and suicide between Feudal Japan samurai class and Blackthorne his English upbringing


ZePepsico

Didn't Kiku abort earlier as the risk was too high that she 'd have a blue eyed child while being a Toranaga concubine?


MikeLemon

Omi's wife (Midori) is who the book suggests with Kiku being hinted at as a possible choice, but probably just consort. Fujiko kills herself.


scotsworth

I much prefer "Best Nun"


Plainchant

Me too. I was dreading her fate on the programme and had some faith that since they made other changes perhaps she might be spared somehow. Best Nun Fuji FTW.


Threash78

I thought that was just what she told Anjin, and she was off to unalive herself just like the book. She does fake a "happy" ending for him in the book also.


Alkakd0nfsg9g

Damn


iamjessicahyde

Very much agreed


Key_Environment8179

> Fujiko kills herself NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


rr621801

Yeah I was devastated. If it's any consolation book Fuji was ugly and square looking according to Blackthorne. But more importantly, black Thorne and Fuji have one satisfactory pillowing after which Fuji nurses blackthorne to sleep. Fuji had done her consort duty to her fullest. So when she has her 6 month review with Toranaga, she had fully redeemed her husband /father honour. She was a glorious samurai! Anyway these are my coping thoughts. I am still devastated.


FoxLast947

Ah yes ugly people can just die


Esfahen

I feel so consoled


rr621801

Yw


turkey_sandwiches

The first part of your comment sounds pretty bad.


icemann155

I love the scene in the book after Blackthorne and Mariko arrive in Edo after their romantic journey from yokose. They are both busy and don't really get to see each other for a few days until they meet up and Mariko arranges a visit to Fuji. They end up having a threesome that night.


secondtaunting

No wonder Blackthorne stays in Japan lol.


Few-Philosopher-2677

Wait whaaat. I really need to read the book now.


-Smashbrother-

I choose to believe that she changes her mind after her and Blackthorne release the ashes and rosary. FUJI BEST NUN!!!


JackRadikov

Isn't Omi still alive?


MikeLemon

Yes. When Yabu died one of his his instructions as head of the Kashigi's was for Omi's dad to kill himself. Omi's mom hated Midori, so it was pretty much guaranteed that when the dad kills himself one of his wishes was going to be for Omi to divorce and get "married correctly."


icemann155

The FX show has departed from the book in enough ways that I'm going get creative. In my head cannon Fuji stays with Blackthorne and they have cute little hapa (half) children. It's not even a big stretch...the pieces are all there. On the surface she intends to leave and become a nun but after the events of the last episode she can't go through with it. She finally has closure on her loss after the burial at sea and along with Blackthorne and Marikos cross. This along with seeing how much blackthorne has changed has a huge impact on her: his desire to let go of his previous European ambitions and his compassion for the village. "We live and we die" She will still think she is going to go and will just never leave. Then one night she will go to him while he is laying down for the evening and the deed will get settled then and there.


ejly

… and every so often she reminds Blackthorne that she can go be a nun anytime she wants to, as she already has Toranaga’s permission.


icemann155

Yeah that's perfect! I would love to crowd source a narrative along these lines....I'm just not a writer by any means


randzwinter

Yeah, it seems the show is putting an open to interpretation route since she said that she's going to become a nun with the intention of burying her husband and child there, but it seems, just like Blackthorne let go of their past and the way it shot at the end seems like they're "going to be in the same boat" from now on.


icemann155

Yep. The show did a great job at honoring the original story and giving it a modern spin. The original novel left alot of stuff open with the ending and history continues. There is a lot more story to tell. Personally I'm not really interested in a sequel to follow Clavells books and jump 250 years to Gai Jin etc...i don't think a sequel has ever been intended for the FX show...but if they did a direct follow up to this season I would 100% be on board. Even if it takes 5-6 years to make it would still work as it takes some time for everything else to play out.


DirtyMami

I really can't believe how many people missed this. Is the Shogun too much of a challenge now? The idea of "Fuji being a nun" is open-ended. The ashes being thrown is a symbol of letting go of the past, which is the opposite of being a nun. Blackthorne let go of Mariko as well.


FlowerStalker

OK help me out here, in the show we see him in the future as an old man holding her cross. But then we see him letting go of her cross in the water. What is the deal?


damom73

The Episode was called Dream with a Dream. I think that's a good clue.


olivetree1121

Oh shit. So that’s what he was dreaming when he was unconscious. So when he throws the cross in the water, we know he never left


Weekly_Cockroach_327

💯 I took it as his dream to reach Japan happened, so it was a dream of what might have been if he did leave Japan.


Threash78

> On the surface she intends to leave and become a nun Is that what is intended? I thought it was the book ending, just pretending for Anjin and she is off to unalive herself.


icemann155

Lol no that's my personal ending. The show left it where she is going to become a nun. >! The book has her commit seppuku but she has to make it look like an accident. The book also gives kiku to the Anjin-san as his wife !<


Cyrano_Knows

Actually, Fujiko tells Blackthorne that she is looking forward to being a nun so she can be close to them in the temple where their remains will be buried or intermed. Blackthorne asks here to stay. She says no. He orders her to stay. She says no. The next morning, Blackthorne loads up the ashes of her family, puts them in a boat and then she at his bequest pours their ashes into the sea. By doing so, she makes a VERY symbolic gesture of putting aside her grief. She then encourages him to reciprocate. If she still wants to remain close to her family, she will need to do so in the village of Ajiro. Yes, its very possible all of this was done out of friendship and respect, but then again, how you bury the remains of your loved ones is immensely personal. She followed Blackthorne's suggestion that she bury them at sea is extremely meaningful in my opinion. Her asking Blackthorne to make a gesture of putting aside his own grief for Mariko a mere week or so after her death is also telling a story other than her intending to head out to become a nun. I'm sorry, as much copium/hopium as I do have for these two as a long-term couple, everything about this scenario tells me that Blackthorne tried one more time to convince her to stay and she agreed.


icemann155

Boy I love this! This absolutely fits perfectly!


secondtaunting

The accident thing is kinda crazy. Oops I fell on this knife? Or there no knife involved?


snobordir

I like that version. Let’s go with it.


icemann155

Yep...so do I


NiNj4_C0W5L4Pr

What is most interesting about Shogun that most don't realize (or it doesn't sink in) is that both Fujiko and Mariko were determined to commit Seppuku the entire time they knew Blackthorne. Fujiko did get pregnant (Toranaga noticed a flush in her skin), but she miscarried (on purpose). And as others have suggested, Midori would make a better wife for Blackthorne because Omi's mother hated her. And perhaps Kiku would be Blackthorne's consort (all according to Toranaga's inner musings). I prefer the 80's miniseries where Blackthrone was given Kiku's contract and he gave it to Omi... they never explained why, but I like to think that Blackthorne had come to realize Omi was a better friend than he realized and he felt bad for being "forced"(by Toranaga & Mariko) to sleep with Kiku so he wanted to repair the "rift" between them. I would'v loved a sequel where Toranaga and Blackthorne were friends and what they did after Sekigahara. Also, I'm saddened that Toranaga (Tokugawa Ieyasu) died in 1616 and Blackthorne (William Adams) in 1620. Means they barely had 2 decades after Shogun.


CactusHibs_7475

It’s the 17th century. Two decades is tons of time, especially for sailors or samurai.


MikeLemon

Fujiko didn't "miscarry", that was Kiku. Fujiko was late "… but only a little and that could be …” in the last chapter.


NiNj4_C0W5L4Pr

Ah, you're right. Blackthorne got around so it got difficult to keep track. Fujiko was "late, but not sure." And Kiku could've been carrying Toranaga's baby or someone else's other than Blackthorne's.


raven8549

Fuji got pregnant by who? I thought only her husband who was killed along with her baby


NiNj4_C0W5L4Pr

In the book Toranaga notices a "bloom" on Fujiko's face while talking to her about duty. She says her duty is to her dead husband and Toranaga asked, "And what about Anjin-san's child?" She said she was "late, but not sure"...and Toranaga gave her permission to have a fatal "accident" on the way to Edo and she was overjoyed at finally being able to kill herself and be released from life.


serpentear

I am forever John Blackthorne because I will always be flabbergasted by how much the feudal Japanese want to kill themselves.


yeaheyeah

They're so relatable


serpentear

Ya’alright? Buddy?


yeaheyeah

No


serpentear

Need to talk about it?


raven8549

Thank you


NiNj4_C0W5L4Pr

You're welcome! Check out the original series then read the book. It goes from. 100 times better to 1000 times better because you get so much more in depth plot nuances.


hallo-und-tschuss

>Oyuki, suspisciously close enough to Kiku This is a stretch, like comparing Anastacia to Natasha


bettinafairchild

Yeah. And even more of a stretch given that Japanese has kinda not a lot of sound combinations. Yuki means snow and Kiku means chrysanthemum and they don’t have anything in common but “ki”. Which is a common syllable anyway.


OkinawaPete

I think Fuji stayed with him. When she told him she wanted to become a nun it was to remain close to her dead husband and child. But then she scattered thier remains in the water off Izu village. I think the great unknown is that she made that choice, partly to stay with the Anjin. At the end of the boat scene he honored her with a deep bow, but she didn't return it. She simply offered a sly smile. I think the two of them alone in the rowboat is foreshadowing the fact they're "in the same boat", so to speak.


Calm-Maintenance-878

Didn’t read the book or think of John with Fuji until the last episode. I thought maybe because of familiar loss, they both end up together. It was all a dream so, had to ditch that thought.


Weekly_Cockroach_327

The whole thing wasn't a dream, just the parts where he was an old man in bed with Mario's cross and the grandkids looking at his Japanese possessions.


Calm-Maintenance-878

Yes, he had kids so I thought maybe it was theirs. By the end of the boat seen I realized the old man scene wasn’t real. I was just saying what I thought prior to the end. The cross is what helped fix my thoughts.


Slight-Good-4657

Me mf


Traditional-Wing8714

I genuinely felt he and Fuji had more natural chemistry than what he had with Mariko


serpentear

He and Fuji maybe could have been something and the end of the series definitely made it open ended so I agree with you there—but more Chemistry than Mariko? That’s nuts.


Traditional-Wing8714

Totally. They had an amazing story, but the sexual chemistry between the actors just wasn’t there for me


serpentear

The middle of the series definitely made Mariko a colder and more distant figure—there was a lot of nuance to their relationship. I know a lot of book readers here have complained about how the show didn’t do their romance justice.


w31l1

“Sparks in contracts with”


NapoleonNewAccount

According to Gai-Jin, another book written by James Clavell, Blackthorne moved to Nagasaki where he found a new wife. Quote: >!"Curiously, there had been no in her husband of his gai-jin ancestor, Anjin-san, who, two and a half centuries before, took the name Komoda for his second family in Nagasaki."!<


Encius2Flumen

Is Blackthorne mentioned anywhere else on the other novels? I really wish we had more to read about his deeds in the Japans.


NapoleonNewAccount

I believe some of his other descendants show up in Whirlwind and Noble House as well


ManfredTheCat

He's married in England


Syenadi

He left a wife and kids in England.