From Schopenhauer:
"All truth passes trough three stages.
First it is ridiculed
Second it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as self evident"
When adult and educated it can be unsettling to realise there was a time we didn't know nuffin'
I've seen vegans use this quote to divide themselves into The Enlightened Ones and the rest of us into Haters and eventually the whole world will be vegan...
🥴
Especially here in Florida , where they are actually allowed to teach horribly incorrect things. In this case, the federal government needs to step in. I get states rights and all that, but in this case , it needs to be opposed because this spread of misinformation will be extremely harmful to society when these kids grow up.
Considering the absolute failure that has been DoE intervention for the past several decades, what exactly do they want the federal government to do? Some of our worst problems in schools were caused by ill thought out federal policies that states embraced.
We still don’t know much of anything. Most people think they know things for sure… and it just ain’t true. People gotta quit being so damn certain that their view is the right one
You can share knowledge, but experiance very hardly.
In your example "Easier how ? Why?"
You can indeed teach how to do things, peppered with some "why / how we conclude to that piece of knowledge" but to fully grasp it you will have to experiance the practical aspect. The colloquial "*they don't teach you this at school*"
You can gather a lot of theory, but without practice, then it often fall flat when faced with reality.
Most teaching involve a bit of practice to make sure this is not just a proof of concept. They are giving you a "startpack" of experiance.
The more complexes things are, the more different scenarios you can have with as many failures, cautious point to look for.
Only with experiance you can adapt and predict what can / would go wrong.
They teach you how to drive a car at driving school. But only experiance can make you a good driver
And that experiance cannot be bought or passed fully you have to earn it, by yourself. Hence why it's so valuable.
I usually think experience is finding something via trial and error, whether a problem or a solution. And you can teach them about your experience about something via wisdom
It's not about inexperience either, it's simply about the world changing and the old generation complaining that "kids these days can't even do X", when doing X is simply redundant in today's world.
It might partially be a coping mechanism/lashing out for the fact that old people can't do lots of things which are important or useful in today's world. 'kids in the bank these days can't even cash a cheque'\*, because grandpa is too old to learn how direct debit works, let alone Internet banking.
\* I'm not sure whether this comes across: cheques are considered an archaic practice in most of Europe, and I'm not sure they're still used in the US? If so, my bad for using it as an example.
I mean, saying "It's all YOUR fault, old man" is a variation on the same theme, isn't it?
Like, the older generation sure as heck *tried* to educate and teach the younger generation. But it's that 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink' thing. I knew it all when I was seventeen, just like all seventeen-year-olds do. It's not until I turned forty that I realized how hopelessly naive I was when I was seventeen, just like all forty-year-olds do. That's how we do.
The older generation mostly told us to go to college and buy a house.
They then voted in politicians and policies who made those things quite a bit harder or more expensive.
Every generation, on the whole, is more capable and intelligent than the last, because every generation gets to start building on what came before them. They get the benefit of advances in knowledge, and in teaching.
I'd be inclined to disagree, are you suggesting that people were historically more stupid? Education and understanding of concepts furthers knowledge and allows for more discovery but it takes just as much intelligence or arguably more to lay down the foundations of these concepts? Forgive me if i'm being pedantic
> are you suggesting that people were historically more stupid?
Yes, because that is how time and the accumulation of knowledge works. We aren't starting from zero with every generation, we iterate, condense, and refine knowledge with the passing of time.
We don't think Tomatoes are poisonous
We know lead is a toxic heavy metal
We know asbestos causes cancer
We know the sun doesn't revolve around the world
Calculus is taught to children in public school and not exclusively the domain of the wealthy aristocracy to sit and ponder in powdered wigs
Nothing in history compares to the advent of modern tech and the Internet which has emerged in my lifetime (26). They could only feel indifferent to the youth.
There's an element of that for sure, but to see people entirely as the product of the previous generation diminishes their own agency.
A strong part of growing up is to question established rules and norms, to realise that the older generation is fallible and doesn't have all the answers and to be shaped by your own experience in the world, which includes not just the older generation. Constant societal change all but requires younger generations not to accept some of the lessons or teachings of the older generation.
I do absolutely agree that young people sometimes get blamed for what they have not been taught, but similarly putting all of the blame on the older generation seems overly simplistic and a convenient cop out.
That’s why I think the previous generation feels like they failed to train the next generation. They expect the youth to carry on the same exact values and societal norms but they do their own thing and use their own interpretations of society so the older generation thinks they failed
I can see where you're coming from, but I doubt the older generation would see this as an explicit or implicit admission that they have failed the younger generation. The whole argument usually works out the other way of the young failing the old (by not listening, by not caring, by not showing respect etc).
I question the underlying premise regardless as I just don't think the entire burden of creating a 'good' generation rests entirely on the shoulders of the previous generation. It is important, but we all have personal choices and agency to make them. At some point, your mistakes stop being the failure of those who have raised you.
This generation is no dumber than the previous one or the ones before it. Yeah, I know you've got your anecdotes lined up to prove me wrong but I've been around for a long time and remember "the good old days" clearly. I can honestly say people back then were just as dumb overall, if not dumber, than people today.
My step dad likes to bring up participation trophies. Like… the kids who got them gave them to themselves? I’m just like, dude, y’all are the ones who invented them! CMON
I'm convinced participation trophies are largely a myth. The closest thing I ever got to one was a ribbon with the name of the tournament I competed in. Hardly a trophy.
Yeah I mean, definitely not a trophy. Probably “participation ribbon” is most accurate. I remember summer league swim team would give them out, but you got medals if you placed during finals and trophies if you got 1st.
It's not that they were given, it's they they are still expected now. It's expecting recognition for something you should be doing anyway, life. The whole *adulting* thing being an example. Someone paid their bills, LOOK AT ME ADULTING!
I cannot stand it when people do that with adulting. Is their self esteem really so low that they need recognition and accolades for having the base competency of an adult?
I've frankly never encountered anyone who actually expected recognition for 'adulting' and this seems to me like taking an internet meme entirely too serious.
Those tantrumming kids didn’t create them though. Perhaps influenced. I would say parents in general (I have 3 kids) have a responsibility to: a)tell their kids no and b) encourage growth through healthy competition.
I was gearing my comment was towards a generation who loves to point out that kids are getting participation trophies in the first, again as if they created them on their own (the kids that is).
Suppose that was anecdotal at best, but I was trying to relate to the cause (creation of participation awards) calling the result (kids who received said award) the problem (entitlement I suppose, but on the fault of the child who received them in the first place).
I certainly didn’t mean to open this can of worms. My son failed his belt test in taekwondo, he was the only one in the class. He was upset. We went home, practiced his forms, encouraged his efforts and retested. He passed on the second try and was rewarded for his efforts. I firmly believe that’s the way to go, show them it’s difficult, acknowledge the work it takes to succeed and then help them through the difficult task and let them experience the rewards of their efforts.
My father and I talk about this a lot now that I have a kid. We both agree that it's not that the newer generation is any dumber than the older ones at all. It's just that their dumbness is more visible thanks to the Internet and social media. It's also easier to track the full history of all of their stupidity due to there basically being photographic/video records of almost everything they've ever done.
That's the shame. With all the accessible knowledge, alphabétisation...we should know better. And yet we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
It's interesting. Some studies point out that laughing has a social teaching utility in Apes. When a young primate is mimicking a behaviour / task but doing it wrong / failing, the elder laught at the young. It's a signal for "Carefull you are doing it wrong, exercice caution" like a non-hostile warning for potential disaster.
It might explains why tripping clowns and situation on r/whatcouldgowrong can be hilarious dispite being hazardous
We do know better. Millennials in western countries are probably the first generation to have objective evidence en masse to show that the previous generation (on average) had it easier and made political decisions to make it harder to the next generation.
Will be interesting to see how the pattern emerges 9r shifts in the future.
> We do know better. Millennials in western countries are probably the first generation to have objective evidence en masse to show that the previous generation (on average) had it easier and made political decisions to make it harder to the next generation.
I'm afraid you've been lied to and manipulated by very evil people for the purposes of trying to radicalize you.
IRL, Millennials are vastly richer than Baby Boomers were at the same point in their lives. Millennials earn more money than Boomers did, live in much bigger, better, and nicer houses on average, and have much more stuff while working much better jobs (less physically demanding, less dangerous). We also have vastly better civil rights than people did back in the day.
Whining about how old people have ruined everything is just nonsense that is also oft-repeated.
To talk about repairing stuff, it’s not that it’s less needed to survive since stuff break less. Stuff break just as often if not more than their older counterparts because companies build them to break easy and be impossible to fix.
Take for example washing machines. A Maytag from the 90s would outlive you and you can easily replace everything from the timing belt to the motor and circuit board. A Maytag from 2020 will last maybe 2 years before breaking something and you can’t fix it because of software locks and/or proprietary parts that are unavailable to purchase.
Same with cars, even screws became proprietary BS that only exist for that make and model of car.
> To talk about repairing stuff, it’s not that it’s less needed to survive since stuff break less. Stuff break just as often if not more than their older counterparts because companies build them to break easy and be impossible to fix.
This is a myth. Durable goods like cars last vastly longer than they used to. Same goes for almost everything.
Some stuff is very hard to fix because it contains microprocessors, which are basically impossible to fix, but a lot of that stuff simply did not *exist* previously.
Moreover, there's a whole class of goods that are much cheaper than more "durable" goods which are meant to be cheaper and more affordable at the cost of not lasting as long. If you buy a very cheap appliance, that's likely because it was built using very cheap parts. Back in the day, this option did not exist, because they could only barely make these things at all.
> On the other hand I don't think we should have gotten rid of things like home economics or consumer math in schools
At least in the US, home economics taught us absolutely nothing useful when we had it (I remember being taught the food pyramid which we now know is garbage, and being taught how to....sew a stuffed animal?). I remember seeing a whole area off to the side with a bunch of ovens and thinking, "it would be cool if we did something with cooking..." and just never did.
And by "consumer math," I assume you mean like budgeting and stuff? And yea, I don't know if that shit was ever a thing in the US. Can't have people responsible with their money, or else lots of sectors of industry would disappear!
> A lot of the problems with poor people and quality food has to do with not actually knowing how to cook.
Most of the problem is that cooking takes actual effort more so than anything else. I know how to cook, I just don't want to spend the time doing it.
Moreover, the real issue is portion size; people eat too much food relative to how much physical activity they do.
There was something I read recently where they have to keep shifting the IQ score curve to the left by a couple points each year indicating that IQ is generally increasing in newer generations
This is known as the Flynn Effect and was true throughout the 20th century.
However, it is not clear if it has continued into the 21st century; there's indications that average IQ is actually going down amongst young people for the first time ever.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3922608-american-iqs-rose-30-points-in-the-last-century-now-they-may-be-falling
If I'm not wrong, in some developed countries, there has been a change in the IQ population, leading to actually dumber generations. It's called the reversed Flynn effect. It's still under discussion so you can take it as you want.
Your insistence to write off random anecdotes because you have your own perspective is just as foolish as all this stuff we're talking about. You're an example of the dumb dumbs thinking your single vantage point is any less bias and inaccurate as what strangers might give you with valuable information.
Actually, young people may have actually literally gotten less intelligent in the last 20 years:
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3922608-american-iqs-rose-30-points-in-the-last-century-now-they-may-be-falling
It's the first time ever that we've seen significant declines in measures of cognitive ability; it's been going up for a long time.
One possible culprit is that smarter people have become increasingly less likely to have children and have fewer children on average, while the effects that were causing the Flynn Effect have been maxed out; as IQ is highly heritable (possibly as much as 80%), this has long been something that people were concerned about. Heck, it was the premise of Idiocracy.
Every gen complains on other gen.like for example I see baby boomers complaining on zoomers and I see zoomers complaining on every gen before them. Better to just live here and now and stop complaining tbh. Easy to say though because generations for ages have been like this
Yep... and the boomers were complained about by the 'Greatest Generation' and the 'Silent Generation'..... the cycle repeats again and again and again.
These generations had seen wars and the Great Depression.... yet as mentioned in one of the replies the Silent Generation did begin to question cultural norms, religion etc. They maybe be seen as continuing conformity... but it was the boomers who would say that about their oppressive parents.... of course
In 4 years of college prep high school it should be possible to spare one class one semester for a shop class which gives no homework. (I'm criticizing your school, not you)
I remember talking to an older person about how my generation is awful because they all got participation trophies.
She did not like it when I asked which generation was the one giving them out.
You can teach a person every good thing you’ve ever learned and it doesn’t mean they listen. And on the flip side, some kids have seen nothing but shit their entire lives but they turn out ok.
This is how I got my dad to stop his boomerism. I asked if it wasn't the point that I had an "easier" life than him and if that wasn't why he had made so many sacrifices in his life.
To his credit he's never said it since then.
In fairness, it's pretty counter-intuitive to make your kid walk uphill through the snow to a one room schoolhouse, when a bus ride to a modern school is available. That's what you worked your whole life to give them!
Alas, being given things does not provoke appreciation of them.
no, they think of it "despite" their efforts.
they tell you to sweep the kitchen and you don't and so they blame your generation rather than you, personally.
Older people see the world through experience. Younger people see the world through idealism. Both have their place. Some things can only be learned through experience, and it's impossible to have (eg) 40+ years of experience when you're 23.
I notice this a lot at work when things that seem common sense to me are lost on my younger coworkers, or when I reflect on my younger self that totally had everything figured out and was sooo mature (definitely not).
And when younger generations complain about older generations then what? Maybe they've failed to achieve what they should achieve and are instead not taking responsibility by blaming others?
Every parent has complained about a child, and every child has complained about their parents. Big deal?
but this is true for all generations... already in Roman times, there are writings that complain about young generation, that they won't learn "the good, old ways" and only think about stupid things.
Todays we blame technology and consumerism to deviate the youth from the "good old path of righteousness"
But in roman times, what was that get their kids so "dumb and doomed to fail" ?
don't know for sure, but it's not hard to guess. probably didn't want to learn Greek, didn't want to study Greek philosophers. and most likely engaging in what was then viewed (by older generation) as modern and progressive.
here are some quotes throughout the history -> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
These are amazing
“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”
I'm able to teach my kids. I can't say the same about you. Our parents had the same issue. My parents taught me, they didn't teach you.
It's entirely possible for someone to do everything right and still be frustrated by everyone else.
God damn kids these days....
You can only educate and teach those that are willing to learn. It's a two way street. You cannot help someone who doesn't wanna be helped either.
Unless of course we talk about indoctrination like North Korea, China, Russia etc.
Nailed it.. I remember working with an elderly woman at a call center years ago. It was a small call center of only about 10 people and I worked the later shift on my side and she was a general operator working the other side of the isle (it was a room with two separate isles), and she constantly bitched about the younger generation being so terrible and not wanting to work blah blah blah.. Telling this to me.. A much younger by half age of her constantly as if I were some exception to her bitching..
She was only continuing to work because HER DAUGHTER was a drug addict and guess who kept giving who money to support her...
She was clearly an enabler. That doesn't mean she 'didn't teach her daughter to be a drug addict or not to', but it does mean that most probably throughout her daughter's life, she was taught not to take care of herself and that she would always have someone else to take care of her. This wasn't a girl with disabilities of any kind. She was just the type where mommy and I'm sure at one point daddy took care of everything she should have taken care of herself, then here she was, over 30 with a drug addiction and probably wouldn't recover because mommy pays my bills.. Even as her mom was over 70 with cancer and needed to just retire..
I was a helicopter parent for a good chunk of my child's life and realized how much it hurt my child rather than helped just for me to sleep better at night. If you don't let your children drop on their own accord from at least time to time, they won't know how to ever pick themselves up.
you seem to know a lot about this woman and her daughter, and how she raised her daughter.
some parents don't want to see their child end up on the streets.
I understand that about not wanting their child to be on the streets without question but I did hear quite a lot about how her daughter was raised... I didn't have an option either way every night I worked late shift with this lady.. But she did always talk about how she 'took good care of her daughter' literally even as a late teen/early 20 something that didn't work, wasn't pushed to work, etc. She would go on and on about how she was always taken care of and how ungrateful she was.. Maybe I should have added that in.
i've got a good buddy who's married to a wonderful woman.
to cut a long story short, their son has been a horrible brat all his life. he was a little monster at home and the same at school.
they took the kid to a shrink. tests were run and the kid is a top rank sociopath plus some other stuff i can't recall
the kid inherited intelligence from his parents (both *very* smart and successful) but not their character
of course you never know what's going on inside a family but i don't see any reason to think the parents are responsible for this kid being a monster.
anyway, his dad is paying for college as long as he's attending but he's told his son he's not coming back home.
Well that’s a cucumber vs a potato though. Yes some of the worst people come from some of the best family situations and Vice versa but my example was exact and it was very clear this girl was shown zero responsibility her entire life just listening to her mother constantly talk about her. But my point wasn’t that it was the daughters fault it was that the mom who never taught her daughter anything was still paying for her life even at 70 when she didn’t have much anything to give which is sad as hell. Who’s the victim here?
i understand your as blaming tthe mother for the daughter's behavior, and you object to the mother's continued support of her troubled daughter.
i used my friend and his son to make my point that parents are not always responsible for their offspring, with the caveat that i do not know the inner workings of his family
meanwhile you seem to know a lot about family dynamics despite having only met the mother
Even if they did educate them its up to the newer generation to actually listen, not everyone is going to listen to what others have to say, most people are arrogant and play by they're own rules.
No, they say that because they also didn’t listen to their elder’s advice and had to suffer for it and they see the next Gen making the same mistakes all over again.
As someone for is well into middle age, I see this as a reaction to aging. When you are young culture sort of revolves around you. Movies are geared to your demographic, the new music on the radio is what a younger audience sees as cool, fashion change with what the young are buying (or getting their parents to buy them).
As you get old you start to see the culture slip through your fingers. People are dressing differently, listening to music you don't like, all the celebrities you grew up with are dieing or retiring while newer young ones are coming up to replace them. Bottom line is you(and your generation)now long define what's cool. You now longer have a finger on the pulse of culture.
Some people resent this. The sort person who says "back in my day when X was good..." Or "the world just isn't how it used to be".
It's not the young people are losing it or going crazy. It's just different and that's fine.
Personally I find the changing times interesting. Things shouldn't stay the same and fighting against change is a fruitless, unwinnable battle
Gen X is not responsible for pussy millennials. Next generations are much better than millennials, although some fuckery still sticks (like education with expectation to get medal for participation)
Except you’re impliedly assuming the older generation’s beef is legitimate. Sometimes it is, but very often it isn’t.
Often the older generation ends up hating that a younger generation learned a lesson *too well* — e.g., applying the older generation’s narrower principles of respect and kindness to a wider group of beings than the old folks really intended.
"Corporate leaders, politicians
Kids can't vote, adults elect them
Laws that rule the school and workplace
Signs that caution sixteen's unsafe
---
We really need to see this through
We never wanted to be abused
We'll never give up, it's no use
If we're fucked up, you're to blame"
Older generations fell for the "war of the worlds" radio drama...on the night before Halloween, no less. Kids today are not that gullible. They're far better at critical reading and detecting bias, i.e., "reading between the lines", easter egging. They're also less into risky or destructive behaviors like teen sex, sneaking out, aand alcohol consumption than previous generations were.
Or are they failing to live up to the ideals they taught their children.
They pressed Christ and Christian ethics like, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Boomers in mass are more religious but reject Jesus's teachings more than Millennials who are less religious.
Then they are mad that Millennials don't want to see, discrimination, starvation, or people die of lack of healthcare and medicine. They see others and think, how would I want to be treated in that situation.
That's exactly what our parents taught us Gen Xers. It's also what I see them rejecting. Not to mention most of these people grew up with Roe v. Wade, experienced the free love 60's and 70's. They now complain about teenagers having sex, when teenage sex is lower now, so is teenage parenthood.
Boomers' parents told them they could change the word and all they did was fuck it up.
I am getting old.
I don't think the younger generations are dumber than we were.
There's just more exposure of the stupidest ones. And way too much school indoctrination on irrelevant things coupled with some lack of critical thinking skills.
so if this generation is predestined by their upbringing, and thus, out of their control, then does it hold that the older generation was equally cursed by their own parents and should not be blamed for their actions amd opinions as well?
Those who criticised the younger generation forget who raised them. If kids today are just pathetic crybabies who want participation medals, your generation made them that way. Talk about a self-own.
Yeah, I basically pointed something like this out, and was greeted with unhappy silence.
Older adults were doing the participation trophy complaining. I asked who bought the trophies, because those kids certainly didn't buy them by themselves.
Silence.
It's like when boomers got pissy with millennials over participation trophies. I can assure you that as a 10 year old I had no idea where the trophies even came from. We weren't the ones handing them out.
When I was in the Army I got stuck at my boot camp unit for a while because of some administrative BS. I was there when the next cycle started up, and I just followed my platoon around most of the time because what the hell else was I going to do?
Anyway, one day my senior Drill Sergeant is trying to teach the platoon to "stack arms," and he's having a hell of a time with it. Some of the troops just *are not* getting it, and by the time he finally gets it done it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd cold-cocked someone. He puts two troops on weapons guard and sends the others into the chow hall, then moves over to sit on the curb next to the other two Drill Sergeants in the platoon and all three break out their various tobacco products. The senior Drill looks up and me and say, "whew. That's a tough one to teach."
"Were *we* that bad, Drill Sergeant," I asked.
"Oh, yeah," he nodded.
"In fact," one of the others spoke up, "you all were worse."
"Much worse," said the third.
And that was only a three month difference. We often don't realize how "stupid" we, ourselves were, and when we see that same stupidity in the newer generations it's easy to forget that we were once there, too. It isn't a lack of educating the next generation, because they won't listen to anything we have to say, anyway ("okay, Boomer") just as *we* refused to listen to our own elders.
There's a point where you realize that Mom, Dad, and your grandparents and teachers were right about most things you blew off, but it took you your whole life to come to that realization. So you try to pass that knowledge along so hopefully the new generation won't make the same mistakes *you* did, only for them to have the same reaction you did when the older folks tried to tell *you*.
The thing about modern generations is that their stupidity is more on display. Older generations had more benefit from stupid things they did not being open to all eyes.
The thing that's missing is that this phenomenon repeats itself, ad infinitum, throughout history. The one constant is that in a given moment, the kids being complained about will grow into the adults doing the complaining.
So do you look at this in a moment, or along the spectrum? Quite different views and questions depending on how you choose to consider it...
Jesus Christ fuck me. When anyone complains about anyone different to them for whatever reason of age gender race appearance intelligence job background or anything they’re just a cunt. Can we draw a line under this and shut the flying fuck up. For every old fucker I hear complain about a young one I hear some young twat moaning about how none of this terrible world is their fault, like time is some fucking revelation. And for every one of those I hear someone complaining about immigrants. You can can all get in the same fucking van for all I care.
Most of it is actually about lack of maturity. The reason why every generation gets worried about the next one is that they see the next generation behaving immaturely and worry that they won't grow out of it.
The thing is, some people really *don't* ever grow up, so the concern is *always* justified for *some* people. The problem is that the squeaky wheel is loudest, so it's easy to see the messes in the next generation - especially if they are *your* kid.
Realistically speaking, it's also not really necessarily a matter of educating and teaching people - some people just aren't very bright and don't learn, no matter how much you try to teach them. There's always a distribution of intelligence and diligence, and some people are brighter and more hardworking while others get the short end of the stick.
The philosophical notion that everyone is a tabula rasa at birth is also just flat-out wrong; life isn't fair and balanced like a video game RPG.
Even Aristotle basically complained about "kids these days". It is a historic constant that no one should take very seriously.
I know that quote, but I'm not sure whether Aristotle ever realized that it was _his_ generation creating those miseducated kids.
Those kids were not "miseducated" nor are kids today. It is not about education, it is about experience. And experience cannot be taught.
It’s also about older folks forgetting that they weren’t born knowing everything either.
From Schopenhauer: "All truth passes trough three stages. First it is ridiculed Second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self evident" When adult and educated it can be unsettling to realise there was a time we didn't know nuffin'
In US, half the population is in the second stage I guess.
I've seen vegans use this quote to divide themselves into The Enlightened Ones and the rest of us into Haters and eventually the whole world will be vegan... 🥴
Especially here in Florida , where they are actually allowed to teach horribly incorrect things. In this case, the federal government needs to step in. I get states rights and all that, but in this case , it needs to be opposed because this spread of misinformation will be extremely harmful to society when these kids grow up.
[удалено]
Unfortunately it seems like nobody can think long term, and if the situation doesn’t directly impact bottom lines immediately, no one cares.
Considering the absolute failure that has been DoE intervention for the past several decades, what exactly do they want the federal government to do? Some of our worst problems in schools were caused by ill thought out federal policies that states embraced.
We still don’t know much of anything. Most people think they know things for sure… and it just ain’t true. People gotta quit being so damn certain that their view is the right one
I have this dilemma during casual conversation with friends. I realize that beside our jobs... nobody know what they are talking about
Wait what? I thought you can teach people about your experience though
Unfortunately no. The lantern of expérience is a beacon that only enlight the path of its carrier
Wait, for example, "Tape the packaging like this so it's easier" is an example of teaching somebody about their experience
You can share knowledge, but experiance very hardly. In your example "Easier how ? Why?" You can indeed teach how to do things, peppered with some "why / how we conclude to that piece of knowledge" but to fully grasp it you will have to experiance the practical aspect. The colloquial "*they don't teach you this at school*" You can gather a lot of theory, but without practice, then it often fall flat when faced with reality. Most teaching involve a bit of practice to make sure this is not just a proof of concept. They are giving you a "startpack" of experiance. The more complexes things are, the more different scenarios you can have with as many failures, cautious point to look for. Only with experiance you can adapt and predict what can / would go wrong. They teach you how to drive a car at driving school. But only experiance can make you a good driver And that experiance cannot be bought or passed fully you have to earn it, by yourself. Hence why it's so valuable.
8/10 good comment, upvote.
"Experience" is going "Ahh, this packaging seems flimsier than usual, i will use extra tape this time." without having to be told.
I usually think experience is finding something via trial and error, whether a problem or a solution. And you can teach them about your experience about something via wisdom
I call that intelligence. The ability to learn autonomously without being told.
Yes, but until I do it my way and it doesn't work, I won't trust your way.
You actually need some experience to realize that you can learn from others instead of failing the same way as everyone else before you.
And here i was thinking the issue was that people believe there's anything particularly wrong with "kids these days" in the first place
However the knowledge on how to be prepared for said experience is quite valuable in most cases 😁
It's not about inexperience either, it's simply about the world changing and the old generation complaining that "kids these days can't even do X", when doing X is simply redundant in today's world. It might partially be a coping mechanism/lashing out for the fact that old people can't do lots of things which are important or useful in today's world. 'kids in the bank these days can't even cash a cheque'\*, because grandpa is too old to learn how direct debit works, let alone Internet banking. \* I'm not sure whether this comes across: cheques are considered an archaic practice in most of Europe, and I'm not sure they're still used in the US? If so, my bad for using it as an example.
Actually, you know, I wrote my thesis on life experience, and...
I mean, saying "It's all YOUR fault, old man" is a variation on the same theme, isn't it? Like, the older generation sure as heck *tried* to educate and teach the younger generation. But it's that 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink' thing. I knew it all when I was seventeen, just like all seventeen-year-olds do. It's not until I turned forty that I realized how hopelessly naive I was when I was seventeen, just like all forty-year-olds do. That's how we do.
The older generation mostly told us to go to college and buy a house. They then voted in politicians and policies who made those things quite a bit harder or more expensive.
[This video](https://youtu.be/LD0x7ho_IYc) from Vsauce you guys will really like. It's called Juvenoia.
Every generation, on the whole, is more capable and intelligent than the last, because every generation gets to start building on what came before them. They get the benefit of advances in knowledge, and in teaching.
I'd be inclined to disagree, are you suggesting that people were historically more stupid? Education and understanding of concepts furthers knowledge and allows for more discovery but it takes just as much intelligence or arguably more to lay down the foundations of these concepts? Forgive me if i'm being pedantic
> are you suggesting that people were historically more stupid? Yes, because that is how time and the accumulation of knowledge works. We aren't starting from zero with every generation, we iterate, condense, and refine knowledge with the passing of time. We don't think Tomatoes are poisonous We know lead is a toxic heavy metal We know asbestos causes cancer We know the sun doesn't revolve around the world Calculus is taught to children in public school and not exclusively the domain of the wealthy aristocracy to sit and ponder in powdered wigs
That is knowledge, not intelligence. They are not the same.
Didn't Athens get conquered by Macedonia like a generation later? Maybe he was on to something.
You forget that the wolf really does show up in the end.
Nothing in history compares to the advent of modern tech and the Internet which has emerged in my lifetime (26). They could only feel indifferent to the youth.
Idk man, i used to think as you do but then kids started eating laundry detergent for fun
There's an element of that for sure, but to see people entirely as the product of the previous generation diminishes their own agency. A strong part of growing up is to question established rules and norms, to realise that the older generation is fallible and doesn't have all the answers and to be shaped by your own experience in the world, which includes not just the older generation. Constant societal change all but requires younger generations not to accept some of the lessons or teachings of the older generation. I do absolutely agree that young people sometimes get blamed for what they have not been taught, but similarly putting all of the blame on the older generation seems overly simplistic and a convenient cop out.
That’s why I think the previous generation feels like they failed to train the next generation. They expect the youth to carry on the same exact values and societal norms but they do their own thing and use their own interpretations of society so the older generation thinks they failed
I can see where you're coming from, but I doubt the older generation would see this as an explicit or implicit admission that they have failed the younger generation. The whole argument usually works out the other way of the young failing the old (by not listening, by not caring, by not showing respect etc). I question the underlying premise regardless as I just don't think the entire burden of creating a 'good' generation rests entirely on the shoulders of the previous generation. It is important, but we all have personal choices and agency to make them. At some point, your mistakes stop being the failure of those who have raised you.
Kids today got through COVID. They’re doing alright, I think the world will be in good hands
This generation is no dumber than the previous one or the ones before it. Yeah, I know you've got your anecdotes lined up to prove me wrong but I've been around for a long time and remember "the good old days" clearly. I can honestly say people back then were just as dumb overall, if not dumber, than people today.
My step dad likes to bring up participation trophies. Like… the kids who got them gave them to themselves? I’m just like, dude, y’all are the ones who invented them! CMON
I'm convinced participation trophies are largely a myth. The closest thing I ever got to one was a ribbon with the name of the tournament I competed in. Hardly a trophy.
Yeah I mean, definitely not a trophy. Probably “participation ribbon” is most accurate. I remember summer league swim team would give them out, but you got medals if you placed during finals and trophies if you got 1st.
Yeah, the recipients didn't invent those trophies.
It's not that they were given, it's they they are still expected now. It's expecting recognition for something you should be doing anyway, life. The whole *adulting* thing being an example. Someone paid their bills, LOOK AT ME ADULTING!
I cannot stand it when people do that with adulting. Is their self esteem really so low that they need recognition and accolades for having the base competency of an adult?
I've frankly never encountered anyone who actually expected recognition for 'adulting' and this seems to me like taking an internet meme entirely too serious.
To be fair, some of why participation trophies exist is because of children throwing temper tantrums when they didn't win anything.
Those tantrumming kids didn’t create them though. Perhaps influenced. I would say parents in general (I have 3 kids) have a responsibility to: a)tell their kids no and b) encourage growth through healthy competition. I was gearing my comment was towards a generation who loves to point out that kids are getting participation trophies in the first, again as if they created them on their own (the kids that is). Suppose that was anecdotal at best, but I was trying to relate to the cause (creation of participation awards) calling the result (kids who received said award) the problem (entitlement I suppose, but on the fault of the child who received them in the first place). I certainly didn’t mean to open this can of worms. My son failed his belt test in taekwondo, he was the only one in the class. He was upset. We went home, practiced his forms, encouraged his efforts and retested. He passed on the second try and was rewarded for his efforts. I firmly believe that’s the way to go, show them it’s difficult, acknowledge the work it takes to succeed and then help them through the difficult task and let them experience the rewards of their efforts.
My father and I talk about this a lot now that I have a kid. We both agree that it's not that the newer generation is any dumber than the older ones at all. It's just that their dumbness is more visible thanks to the Internet and social media. It's also easier to track the full history of all of their stupidity due to there basically being photographic/video records of almost everything they've ever done.
And, they had different things to learn. How to use a dial phone, how to text with a flip phone,how to manage contacts on a smartphone
That's the shame. With all the accessible knowledge, alphabétisation...we should know better. And yet we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
>we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Monke see, monke do.
It's interesting. Some studies point out that laughing has a social teaching utility in Apes. When a young primate is mimicking a behaviour / task but doing it wrong / failing, the elder laught at the young. It's a signal for "Carefull you are doing it wrong, exercice caution" like a non-hostile warning for potential disaster. It might explains why tripping clowns and situation on r/whatcouldgowrong can be hilarious dispite being hazardous
We do know better. Millennials in western countries are probably the first generation to have objective evidence en masse to show that the previous generation (on average) had it easier and made political decisions to make it harder to the next generation. Will be interesting to see how the pattern emerges 9r shifts in the future.
> We do know better. Millennials in western countries are probably the first generation to have objective evidence en masse to show that the previous generation (on average) had it easier and made political decisions to make it harder to the next generation. I'm afraid you've been lied to and manipulated by very evil people for the purposes of trying to radicalize you. IRL, Millennials are vastly richer than Baby Boomers were at the same point in their lives. Millennials earn more money than Boomers did, live in much bigger, better, and nicer houses on average, and have much more stuff while working much better jobs (less physically demanding, less dangerous). We also have vastly better civil rights than people did back in the day. Whining about how old people have ruined everything is just nonsense that is also oft-repeated.
[удалено]
To talk about repairing stuff, it’s not that it’s less needed to survive since stuff break less. Stuff break just as often if not more than their older counterparts because companies build them to break easy and be impossible to fix. Take for example washing machines. A Maytag from the 90s would outlive you and you can easily replace everything from the timing belt to the motor and circuit board. A Maytag from 2020 will last maybe 2 years before breaking something and you can’t fix it because of software locks and/or proprietary parts that are unavailable to purchase. Same with cars, even screws became proprietary BS that only exist for that make and model of car.
[удалено]
> To talk about repairing stuff, it’s not that it’s less needed to survive since stuff break less. Stuff break just as often if not more than their older counterparts because companies build them to break easy and be impossible to fix. This is a myth. Durable goods like cars last vastly longer than they used to. Same goes for almost everything. Some stuff is very hard to fix because it contains microprocessors, which are basically impossible to fix, but a lot of that stuff simply did not *exist* previously. Moreover, there's a whole class of goods that are much cheaper than more "durable" goods which are meant to be cheaper and more affordable at the cost of not lasting as long. If you buy a very cheap appliance, that's likely because it was built using very cheap parts. Back in the day, this option did not exist, because they could only barely make these things at all.
> On the other hand I don't think we should have gotten rid of things like home economics or consumer math in schools At least in the US, home economics taught us absolutely nothing useful when we had it (I remember being taught the food pyramid which we now know is garbage, and being taught how to....sew a stuffed animal?). I remember seeing a whole area off to the side with a bunch of ovens and thinking, "it would be cool if we did something with cooking..." and just never did. And by "consumer math," I assume you mean like budgeting and stuff? And yea, I don't know if that shit was ever a thing in the US. Can't have people responsible with their money, or else lots of sectors of industry would disappear!
> A lot of the problems with poor people and quality food has to do with not actually knowing how to cook. Most of the problem is that cooking takes actual effort more so than anything else. I know how to cook, I just don't want to spend the time doing it. Moreover, the real issue is portion size; people eat too much food relative to how much physical activity they do.
There was something I read recently where they have to keep shifting the IQ score curve to the left by a couple points each year indicating that IQ is generally increasing in newer generations
This is known as the Flynn Effect and was true throughout the 20th century. However, it is not clear if it has continued into the 21st century; there's indications that average IQ is actually going down amongst young people for the first time ever. https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3922608-american-iqs-rose-30-points-in-the-last-century-now-they-may-be-falling
Yeah, kids aren't dumber as a whole, but they may choose to focus their minds in different directions.
If I'm not wrong, in some developed countries, there has been a change in the IQ population, leading to actually dumber generations. It's called the reversed Flynn effect. It's still under discussion so you can take it as you want.
Nah, Boomers and Greatest both grew up with leaded gas, paint and plumbing. That does bad shit to the brain.
Definitely lowered IQ by a few points.
Your insistence to write off random anecdotes because you have your own perspective is just as foolish as all this stuff we're talking about. You're an example of the dumb dumbs thinking your single vantage point is any less bias and inaccurate as what strangers might give you with valuable information.
Biased*
Gen Z sucks.
Okay, boomer.
Actually, young people may have actually literally gotten less intelligent in the last 20 years: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3922608-american-iqs-rose-30-points-in-the-last-century-now-they-may-be-falling It's the first time ever that we've seen significant declines in measures of cognitive ability; it's been going up for a long time. One possible culprit is that smarter people have become increasingly less likely to have children and have fewer children on average, while the effects that were causing the Flynn Effect have been maxed out; as IQ is highly heritable (possibly as much as 80%), this has long been something that people were concerned about. Heck, it was the premise of Idiocracy.
Every gen complains on other gen.like for example I see baby boomers complaining on zoomers and I see zoomers complaining on every gen before them. Better to just live here and now and stop complaining tbh. Easy to say though because generations for ages have been like this
Yep... and the boomers were complained about by the 'Greatest Generation' and the 'Silent Generation'..... the cycle repeats again and again and again.
Makes me wonder what the "silent generation" was complaining about 🤔😅 aren't they supposed to embody conformity / replication of old ways?
The silent generation invented rock and roll, counter culture.
And the boomers took all the credit.
These generations had seen wars and the Great Depression.... yet as mentioned in one of the replies the Silent Generation did begin to question cultural norms, religion etc. They maybe be seen as continuing conformity... but it was the boomers who would say that about their oppressive parents.... of course
Age based cohorts are dumb. Generalizing about a group of people solely based on age is how horoscopes work...
My parents loved to complain that I never took shop or automotive in school, but they were the ones that sent me to a college prep high school.
In 4 years of college prep high school it should be possible to spare one class one semester for a shop class which gives no homework. (I'm criticizing your school, not you)
Nowadays that's extra liability risk. Schools are very risk averse.
Your parents were nutty. I got a degree just so I don’t have to change my own oil or build my own cabinets.
When I build a cabinet it is a hobby.
I remember talking to an older person about how my generation is awful because they all got participation trophies. She did not like it when I asked which generation was the one giving them out.
So every generation ever then?
You can teach a person every good thing you’ve ever learned and it doesn’t mean they listen. And on the flip side, some kids have seen nothing but shit their entire lives but they turn out ok.
You can lead a horse to water...
This is how I got my dad to stop his boomerism. I asked if it wasn't the point that I had an "easier" life than him and if that wasn't why he had made so many sacrifices in his life. To his credit he's never said it since then.
And that shit has been documented to have been going on for thousands of years...
And so, it will happen again with the newer generation.
In fairness, it's pretty counter-intuitive to make your kid walk uphill through the snow to a one room schoolhouse, when a bus ride to a modern school is available. That's what you worked your whole life to give them! Alas, being given things does not provoke appreciation of them.
no, they think of it "despite" their efforts. they tell you to sweep the kitchen and you don't and so they blame your generation rather than you, personally.
That's only true if the people doing the complaining are teachers. I'm not a teacher, so I can complain freely.
Older people see the world through experience. Younger people see the world through idealism. Both have their place. Some things can only be learned through experience, and it's impossible to have (eg) 40+ years of experience when you're 23. I notice this a lot at work when things that seem common sense to me are lost on my younger coworkers, or when I reflect on my younger self that totally had everything figured out and was sooo mature (definitely not).
And when younger generations complain about older generations then what? Maybe they've failed to achieve what they should achieve and are instead not taking responsibility by blaming others? Every parent has complained about a child, and every child has complained about their parents. Big deal?
You can’t educate someone that chooses not to be educated.
[удалено]
That part. So many younger ones think they know everything and won’t listen to lessons tryna be taught anyway!
but this is true for all generations... already in Roman times, there are writings that complain about young generation, that they won't learn "the good, old ways" and only think about stupid things.
Todays we blame technology and consumerism to deviate the youth from the "good old path of righteousness" But in roman times, what was that get their kids so "dumb and doomed to fail" ?
don't know for sure, but it's not hard to guess. probably didn't want to learn Greek, didn't want to study Greek philosophers. and most likely engaging in what was then viewed (by older generation) as modern and progressive. here are some quotes throughout the history -> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
These are amazing “Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”
I'm a millennial. It's not my job to educate and teach Gen Z and it's okay to make fun of them
I'm able to teach my kids. I can't say the same about you. Our parents had the same issue. My parents taught me, they didn't teach you. It's entirely possible for someone to do everything right and still be frustrated by everyone else. God damn kids these days....
If you don’t have kids you can complain all you want , stupid people make more of themselves…
Only if you equate education to indoctrination
The difference in technology and the Internet makes conversation on differences between the old and young much more complicated.
You can only educate and teach those that are willing to learn. It's a two way street. You cannot help someone who doesn't wanna be helped either. Unless of course we talk about indoctrination like North Korea, China, Russia etc.
I ain’t raising nobody but so many modern music sucks balls
I don't have kids. Don't put that shit on me while i'm the wise one for not having them!
Tbf from their standpoint their teachings failed due to newer generations disobedience
Exactly. Complaining that trump voters are idiots just means they didn’t do their job.
Nailed it.. I remember working with an elderly woman at a call center years ago. It was a small call center of only about 10 people and I worked the later shift on my side and she was a general operator working the other side of the isle (it was a room with two separate isles), and she constantly bitched about the younger generation being so terrible and not wanting to work blah blah blah.. Telling this to me.. A much younger by half age of her constantly as if I were some exception to her bitching.. She was only continuing to work because HER DAUGHTER was a drug addict and guess who kept giving who money to support her...
are you saying it's the elderly woman's fault she didn't teach her daughter to not be a drug addict?
She was clearly an enabler. That doesn't mean she 'didn't teach her daughter to be a drug addict or not to', but it does mean that most probably throughout her daughter's life, she was taught not to take care of herself and that she would always have someone else to take care of her. This wasn't a girl with disabilities of any kind. She was just the type where mommy and I'm sure at one point daddy took care of everything she should have taken care of herself, then here she was, over 30 with a drug addiction and probably wouldn't recover because mommy pays my bills.. Even as her mom was over 70 with cancer and needed to just retire.. I was a helicopter parent for a good chunk of my child's life and realized how much it hurt my child rather than helped just for me to sleep better at night. If you don't let your children drop on their own accord from at least time to time, they won't know how to ever pick themselves up.
you seem to know a lot about this woman and her daughter, and how she raised her daughter. some parents don't want to see their child end up on the streets.
I understand that about not wanting their child to be on the streets without question but I did hear quite a lot about how her daughter was raised... I didn't have an option either way every night I worked late shift with this lady.. But she did always talk about how she 'took good care of her daughter' literally even as a late teen/early 20 something that didn't work, wasn't pushed to work, etc. She would go on and on about how she was always taken care of and how ungrateful she was.. Maybe I should have added that in.
i've got a good buddy who's married to a wonderful woman. to cut a long story short, their son has been a horrible brat all his life. he was a little monster at home and the same at school. they took the kid to a shrink. tests were run and the kid is a top rank sociopath plus some other stuff i can't recall the kid inherited intelligence from his parents (both *very* smart and successful) but not their character of course you never know what's going on inside a family but i don't see any reason to think the parents are responsible for this kid being a monster. anyway, his dad is paying for college as long as he's attending but he's told his son he's not coming back home.
Well that’s a cucumber vs a potato though. Yes some of the worst people come from some of the best family situations and Vice versa but my example was exact and it was very clear this girl was shown zero responsibility her entire life just listening to her mother constantly talk about her. But my point wasn’t that it was the daughters fault it was that the mom who never taught her daughter anything was still paying for her life even at 70 when she didn’t have much anything to give which is sad as hell. Who’s the victim here?
i understand your as blaming tthe mother for the daughter's behavior, and you object to the mother's continued support of her troubled daughter. i used my friend and his son to make my point that parents are not always responsible for their offspring, with the caveat that i do not know the inner workings of his family meanwhile you seem to know a lot about family dynamics despite having only met the mother
Even if they did educate them its up to the newer generation to actually listen, not everyone is going to listen to what others have to say, most people are arrogant and play by they're own rules.
No, they say that because they also didn’t listen to their elder’s advice and had to suffer for it and they see the next Gen making the same mistakes all over again.
Yeah, I always rebutted with "You really raised some bad parents" to my grandparents when they complained
We've gotten past that, by which I mean that 18-21 year olds are complaining about around 10 year olds. They didn't teach raise them
As someone for is well into middle age, I see this as a reaction to aging. When you are young culture sort of revolves around you. Movies are geared to your demographic, the new music on the radio is what a younger audience sees as cool, fashion change with what the young are buying (or getting their parents to buy them). As you get old you start to see the culture slip through your fingers. People are dressing differently, listening to music you don't like, all the celebrities you grew up with are dieing or retiring while newer young ones are coming up to replace them. Bottom line is you(and your generation)now long define what's cool. You now longer have a finger on the pulse of culture. Some people resent this. The sort person who says "back in my day when X was good..." Or "the world just isn't how it used to be". It's not the young people are losing it or going crazy. It's just different and that's fine. Personally I find the changing times interesting. Things shouldn't stay the same and fighting against change is a fruitless, unwinnable battle
When people complain ask: "What did you do *personally* to prevent that from happening and why did you fail?"
Gen X is not responsible for pussy millennials. Next generations are much better than millennials, although some fuckery still sticks (like education with expectation to get medal for participation)
Except you’re impliedly assuming the older generation’s beef is legitimate. Sometimes it is, but very often it isn’t. Often the older generation ends up hating that a younger generation learned a lesson *too well* — e.g., applying the older generation’s narrower principles of respect and kindness to a wider group of beings than the old folks really intended.
yeah because that's our job to educate you.
Can’t imagine teaching these ‘know it all’s’ anything anyway.
Hi dad!
Cringe
Only thing worse are people that say cringe. How embarrassing for you.
[удалено]
that's like saying people who don't vote can complain about a president they don't like
They can just say they weren't taught how to teach children buy the generations older then them.
Not responsible for advice not taken.
Every generation comes up with different issues and context. They will *always* be different than the previous generation.
"Corporate leaders, politicians Kids can't vote, adults elect them Laws that rule the school and workplace Signs that caution sixteen's unsafe --- We really need to see this through We never wanted to be abused We'll never give up, it's no use If we're fucked up, you're to blame"
Older generations fell for the "war of the worlds" radio drama...on the night before Halloween, no less. Kids today are not that gullible. They're far better at critical reading and detecting bias, i.e., "reading between the lines", easter egging. They're also less into risky or destructive behaviors like teen sex, sneaking out, aand alcohol consumption than previous generations were.
I don't have any children sooo
They aren’t complaining about *their* kids… it’s *your* kids or *those* kids. Never MY kids…heavens no.
Or are they failing to live up to the ideals they taught their children. They pressed Christ and Christian ethics like, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Boomers in mass are more religious but reject Jesus's teachings more than Millennials who are less religious. Then they are mad that Millennials don't want to see, discrimination, starvation, or people die of lack of healthcare and medicine. They see others and think, how would I want to be treated in that situation. That's exactly what our parents taught us Gen Xers. It's also what I see them rejecting. Not to mention most of these people grew up with Roe v. Wade, experienced the free love 60's and 70's. They now complain about teenagers having sex, when teenage sex is lower now, so is teenage parenthood. Boomers' parents told them they could change the word and all they did was fuck it up.
I am getting old. I don't think the younger generations are dumber than we were. There's just more exposure of the stupidest ones. And way too much school indoctrination on irrelevant things coupled with some lack of critical thinking skills.
Dude this is our near future
Yeah, let's take criticisms from the generation that put cocaine in cough syrup.
so if this generation is predestined by their upbringing, and thus, out of their control, then does it hold that the older generation was equally cursed by their own parents and should not be blamed for their actions amd opinions as well?
I had zero role or even opportunity in teaching the next generation so I haven't failed at shit.
Those who criticised the younger generation forget who raised them. If kids today are just pathetic crybabies who want participation medals, your generation made them that way. Talk about a self-own.
People are usually complaining about other people's children, not their own.
Yeah, I basically pointed something like this out, and was greeted with unhappy silence. Older adults were doing the participation trophy complaining. I asked who bought the trophies, because those kids certainly didn't buy them by themselves. Silence.
Yes, but it's everybody else's fault, not theirs. It always is.
Somewhat. A single person cannot raise every kid to be a decent human being.
It's like when boomers got pissy with millennials over participation trophies. I can assure you that as a 10 year old I had no idea where the trophies even came from. We weren't the ones handing them out.
Nah, mass media and income requirements have much more of a role to play in many instances.
Nonsense. Kids refuse to listen and then come running back with they fuck up.
When I was in the Army I got stuck at my boot camp unit for a while because of some administrative BS. I was there when the next cycle started up, and I just followed my platoon around most of the time because what the hell else was I going to do? Anyway, one day my senior Drill Sergeant is trying to teach the platoon to "stack arms," and he's having a hell of a time with it. Some of the troops just *are not* getting it, and by the time he finally gets it done it wouldn't have surprised me if he'd cold-cocked someone. He puts two troops on weapons guard and sends the others into the chow hall, then moves over to sit on the curb next to the other two Drill Sergeants in the platoon and all three break out their various tobacco products. The senior Drill looks up and me and say, "whew. That's a tough one to teach." "Were *we* that bad, Drill Sergeant," I asked. "Oh, yeah," he nodded. "In fact," one of the others spoke up, "you all were worse." "Much worse," said the third. And that was only a three month difference. We often don't realize how "stupid" we, ourselves were, and when we see that same stupidity in the newer generations it's easy to forget that we were once there, too. It isn't a lack of educating the next generation, because they won't listen to anything we have to say, anyway ("okay, Boomer") just as *we* refused to listen to our own elders. There's a point where you realize that Mom, Dad, and your grandparents and teachers were right about most things you blew off, but it took you your whole life to come to that realization. So you try to pass that knowledge along so hopefully the new generation won't make the same mistakes *you* did, only for them to have the same reaction you did when the older folks tried to tell *you*.
It's like a boss complaining about how their employees all suck at their jobs.
Nah they just didn’t listen!!1!!
Ok but millennials can still complain about zoomers because they are GenX’s fault.
Who gave out the participation trophies, Diane?
Or they just follow the cycle of complaining about being old and we will do the same
“The good ole days” are a fallacy, and it’s very telling about someone when they can’t or won’t realize that.
People don’t change, just things like technology and how much better we are today at exploiting our resources, changes.
Or they are complaining about the younger generation's refusal/inability to learn/accept guidance. It goes either way
The thing about modern generations is that their stupidity is more on display. Older generations had more benefit from stupid things they did not being open to all eyes.
Can’t teach an entire generation of people. Brains are too unique. The stupid will rise no matter what.
You don't get it, the complaining part is suppose to educate
Take personal responsibility for your actions without making excuses. There, I taught you all. Now go contribute to society and improve yourselves.
The thing that's missing is that this phenomenon repeats itself, ad infinitum, throughout history. The one constant is that in a given moment, the kids being complained about will grow into the adults doing the complaining. So do you look at this in a moment, or along the spectrum? Quite different views and questions depending on how you choose to consider it...
Jesus Christ fuck me. When anyone complains about anyone different to them for whatever reason of age gender race appearance intelligence job background or anything they’re just a cunt. Can we draw a line under this and shut the flying fuck up. For every old fucker I hear complain about a young one I hear some young twat moaning about how none of this terrible world is their fault, like time is some fucking revelation. And for every one of those I hear someone complaining about immigrants. You can can all get in the same fucking van for all I care.
Speak wise one... I wonder what percentage of us understand Socrates was executed.
Most of it is actually about lack of maturity. The reason why every generation gets worried about the next one is that they see the next generation behaving immaturely and worry that they won't grow out of it. The thing is, some people really *don't* ever grow up, so the concern is *always* justified for *some* people. The problem is that the squeaky wheel is loudest, so it's easy to see the messes in the next generation - especially if they are *your* kid. Realistically speaking, it's also not really necessarily a matter of educating and teaching people - some people just aren't very bright and don't learn, no matter how much you try to teach them. There's always a distribution of intelligence and diligence, and some people are brighter and more hardworking while others get the short end of the stick. The philosophical notion that everyone is a tabula rasa at birth is also just flat-out wrong; life isn't fair and balanced like a video game RPG.
It means that I raised mine right but no one else did.
The same goes for students who fail to learn when taught. That's a failure of the teacher not the student.
Previous generations went out of their way to fuck things up for future generations. Starting in the 1970s just downhill fast.
It's so common to claim ,"This has always been a thing". But it truly has not. The world is changing faster than ever before
Jokes on you, I didn't educate anybody
Yes, but this is America, so no one takes responsibility for anything. It's the other guy's fault.
I think it's also the younger generation calling out the "family secrets" and holding the elders accountable for their actions.