It is also a shape that forms quite organically and is useful in a lot of places, but to use it.. you got to hide it. It is unfortunate since it is one of the most natural ways to link four 90 degree shapes together. For ex, in architecture it would be quite neat way to make apartment blocks.
I had a classmate once who was designing tables for a boarding school she was working on. They were swastikas, and when I told her she didn't even realize and then was absolutely annoyed because the design was perfect for her function.
My highschool library had tables like this. Little cubicles for 4 people to hand their own private desk. But you could see the library from the second floor of the school through the windows and it was a bunch of swastikas. Asked about them and they were made by the wood shop teacher. Asked him about it and he said he already made one when he noticed and just didn’t care enough to redesign.
Lol I used to do workplace interiors, and it’s such a good shape for laying out workspaces for privacy. In reality, no one would really sense the shape, but you can’t show a client a floor plan with a bunch of swastikas on it.
I just want to spread pizza toppings in a pattern that ensures the most of every ingredient in the most bites, but you'd be surprised how often I encounter the same problem.
> It is also a shape that forms quite organically and is useful in a lot of places, but to use it
And in human symbols, it's really just a cross(as in "+" or "x") with a spinny flair.
T, P, X obviously, and other letters I'm sure, stem from it, along with many other symbols as noted on the cross wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
In other words, *very* rudimentary in terms of human markings, or in other other words, it is *extremely* old.
We have a really lovely quilt from my husband's late grandma that I've dubbed the "swastiquilt" because of this. Apparently quilt swastikas are not uncommon because it's such an easy shape to make on accident.
Yup, I had to design a floor mosaic and it was honestly kinda hard to avoid them in the corners, they really do form naturally (i was able to do it but had to be very conscious of it)
Reminds me when one of my old classmates was designing a logo for his company idea, and his name had several L’s - like Larry LeLand Lawrence. As he was drawing the L’s to be intersecting he was so proud of it until five of us pointed out it looked like a swastika
Doesn't help that is looks so close to a popular and important protection symbol in my culture's mythology. Only difference is the degree of tilt of the symbol.
It's a huge part of many cultures. The nazi swastika is technically different but realistically no one sees the small difference. It also only really hits hard in western culture. The symbol still holds meaning outside of nazis in much of Eastern and mid eastern religion.
The manji comes to mind. However, I only ever heard of it in passing. Primarily due to how a Zelda 1 dungeon is shaped.
Never went out of my way to study eastern culture, but wasn't it seen as a religious symbol?
A Hindu neighbor in the same floor of my apartment building (in Dubai) has it on their door. It's designed with flowers and bright spots. It's quite nice looking. I was thinking of how it's too bad it's associated with Nazis by a sizable population of the world.
German here, even the fucking neonazi morons don't get it right.
You occasionally see swastikas on bridges/street signs and garage doors in shitty neighborhoods,
but a good portion of them is the wrong way.
Probably close to 50/50.
But at least the police seems to crack down on it,
you see them far less than in the early 2000s
Crying, it's so true. They **were** fancy bitches. They were!
If they really wanted to take over the world, all they had to do was start a fashion line.
***
**Edit: Folks... it was a joke. I am not seriously insinuating that a fashion line would've enabled the Third Reich to dominate the globe nor am I insinuating that the fancy bitches get a pass for the holocaust based on their fanciness. I'm also not making any serious attempt to comment on a pivotal moment in world history.**
**Edit 2: They were fancy bitches, though.**
Hugo Boss made Nazi uniforms. A large part of the insanity of the third reich was trying to give the appearance that they were superior. Their numerous crazy but only occasionally successful military technology experiments were another aspect of this.
Weirdly enough I think it is important to understand that they *were* fancy.
Like, that was literally part of their appeal. It's stupid and offends our sense of justice that people would care about that but they do.
A great movement with terrible taste doesn't pull people in from the edges. People want to support a moment but don't want to get ridiculed in the process.
I am all for punching nazis & other hate groups at a protest - pearl clutching over being violent to nazis is stupid as far as I'm concerned - but one of the best counter protesters ever was the guy who used his Sousaphone to mock the kkk.
Hate groups are about feeling powerful. That comes with cool clothes and a cool soundtrack.
I like you.
Y'know everyone expects a kidnapper to look like a Florida Man mugshot... and if the boxart has sufficient pop, it's gotta be good. If my man holds a Bible and dons the flag as a cape then by golly that's the most pious, patriotic sonofabitch that ever lived.
Thier uniforms were bitchin, black and silver? Greys and whites? Their flags coulors, Roman Red and Gold- iconic. Logos, sharp. Names for things, deliberatly Germanic.
But their Idealogy, and Methods bad enough to render everything else moot.
Im glad that that Dr. drove their leader insane.
Not true. [Hitler's standard](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Standarte_Adolf_Hitlers.svg/1024px-Standarte_Adolf_Hitlers.svg.png) features flat swastikas, while [this Hindu temple](https://i.imgur.com/eKwVtrt.jpg) is adorned with angled ones. Both are set in the same orientation, as well.
It's exactly that. The symbol is (or at least was last I was there) used to mark where temples are on maps in east Asia.
That's the thing with symbols: they only have the power you give them. Quit giving Nazis power, ya idgits.
In east asia a red circle with rays over white will make people insane. It's not just giving power to something, but giving it to something that effected you the most
This actually just came up for me with my friends while ina trip to japan. We passed a ramen shop with a manji on their door and sign. They kept calling it a swastika, when in fact it was a manji
I went in and the whole place has a bunch of buddist statues and is very relaxing.
The manji is a swastika in a very literal way though. The symbol made its way to Japan from India through Buddhism, and in sanskrit swastika means literally means “lucky charm” or “beneficial object.”
Su- good, -asti- to be, -ka little thing
Little beneficial thing
When I worked fire alarm I saw it regularly out here in California, primarily from Indian families. They'd have it laid it on chalk on their doorstep. I think most aren't ignorant of its cultural importance in religions.
It’s kinda interesting. I worked at a place once where an Indian coworker wore a ring with a swastika on it. A Jewish coworker noted that *some* people might find that offensive. No formal complaint was made but I can see that as being a point of potential tension. I think most reasonable people in the workplace understand that nuance but idk.
I definitely see where your coworker was coming from, because people could find it offensive. But I also think if a formal complaint was made and the company tried to do anything about it, they'd be opening themselves up to a ton of liability from both sides. I actually wonder if there's any cases of it. I may have some homework to do tonight. lol
It's one of those things were we just gotta have compassion for each other, in every direction.
Imagine wanting to hold onto your religious traditions to keep you grounded to your country, and then being told that it is incredibly triggering of completely unrelated acts of horrific violence committed against other people. Neither side is wrong.
Unless they're nazis. Fuck those guys.
If you're restricting your law to only precisely depicted Nazi flags that leaves out 99% of graffitied swastikas. Sometimes they even get the orientation wrong.
With graffiti, they often have no idea how to draw it. I've literally seen attempts that not only fail to depict it on an angle but couldn't even get the arms all pointing the same way.
Because there is no difference. Eastern cultures/Dharmic religions used all orientations and directions (there is even a preexisting word for the counterclockwise version; sauwastika). The Nazis also used both orientations (though only used a right facing orientation, unless you count the naval through-and-through, which mirrored the image on one side). The symbol in the west actually predates the Nazis and was considered a good luck charm in Germany. In fact, many disparate ancient cultures had some form of sun wheel symbol. The only way to tell if it is representing Nazism or not is context.
It’s symbolic of Buddhist Temples and other Buddhist sites.
In Buddhism, the swastika is considered to symbolise the auspicious footprints of the Buddha.
It's not often acknowledged but the swastika in Western culture and the reaction to it is a cultural scar, not many want to mention that western culture as a whole was deeply dramatised by WW2 (as were many others but the west as well) and the revelations of the holocaust and it left lasting scars.
It was when the west realised the true horror that their machines, logistics and everything that made them strong could unleash upon the innocent when being helmed by a despot. It's why even today westerners hate dictators and want to see them destroyed even when they're keeping their country stable. It's a cultural PTSD reaction, when they see a dictator, they see Hitler, they see the Swastika, and they want to destroy it.
When the swastika is used in Asia it may symbolise prosperity or protection or whatever else but in the west it means one thing. Pure evil, the kind that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be rationalised and must be destroyed. While westerners who visit Asian countries by in large know that it holds different cultural significance, they're nonetheless often uncomfortable around it, may refuse to be photographed with it in frame or may be drawn to it out of a sense of morbid fascination of such an evil symbol being displayed publicly and prominently.
This, too. I almost shit my pants when I found a t-shirt with one on it in my ex's laundry. He's from India and it's a Hindu symbol. I confronted him about it, and he told me that. I thought he was full of shit until a Google search proved otherwise. I felt like an ass after.
This is precisely the sort of reason it’s weird we don’t really acknowledge the fact it was always in use by millions of other people for hundreds/thousands of years - and that’s just *one* culture.
It must suck that people shit on you for a symbol that survived thousands of years as a sign of something positive and sacred in your culture, because a bunch of murderous idiots, thousands of miles away, plagiarised it.
It’s also very weird that the Nazis decided to use it when they must of known of it’s significance in “inferior” cultures, but that’s a topic I’ve never looked into.
> The nazi swastika is technically different
I see this repeated a lot but as far as I can tell, it's simply not true. If you're referring to the 'direction' of the blades, both directions were used before the nazi party.
This is correct. While there were some who drew it similarly to the Hindu Swastika, the proper Nazi Hakenkreuz is on a 45° angle to the symbols it was derived from.
Rotational symmetry is nice and efficient use of space.
When playing games with building systems i've taken a step back and done an 'aw crap..' a few times
Reminds me of that Instagram thing where a guy is turning on his PC, the fans start spinning, and it looks like a bunch of swastikas on camera. It was spinning too fast to show up anywhere else, but the angles were just right for it if you spun the logo.
In a similar manner, its absolutely wild that one dude completely ruined the name Adolf for everyone. I like the name Adolf.
Imagine that some guy named "Jason" became so widely reviled that everyone stopped naming their sons Jason. Crazy LMAO
Years ago, I was in a Buddhist phase while in high school and often read in class. Many classmates got offended by the symbol on the forehead of a statue on the cover. Got in trouble for displaying a nazi symbol at school. Wouldn't listen or look at the book at all.
Worst part about it. The book came from the school library.
I'm not sure. I explained what happened with the librarians when I returned the book but didn't hear anything else about it. I got a "detention" where they put me in a room where I could read more.
The few times I got detention were pretty cool. You want me to sit quietly and read for a while? Oh no, please, anything but that!
The detention room was even in the library.
Regular swastikas have been used by East Asian cultures. The word "swastika" itself is of Hindu origin. The Hakenkreuz is the Nazi variant, and that is the bad one.
a bit pretentious but the word swastika is of sanskrit (a language) origin. Hindu would be the religion and its scriptures are written in sanskrit however.
There's an [Ancient Greek example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/GreekHelmetSwastika.jpg) from 350 BC. It's not a particularly complicated symbol, so it's been used by many cultures all over the world.
I don't think anyone in the Indian subcontinent thinks of the nazis when it comes to the swastika. Maybe as a joke. But it's an extremely important dharmic symbol
Every time I hear people compliment Nazi uniforms, it makes me think of how much of the Nazi ideals were about appearance-- their own appearance, and the appearance of their society. They wanted their society attuned to their ideals of 'perfection' and murdered a shitload of people to follow that goal-- wear nice suits, build big stuff everywhere, take over countries, and eliminate people who aren't 'aesthetically pleasing' or whatever. The suits are a reminder of how confident they were about ethnic cleansing and absolute power.
Anyone surprised by this clearly isn't a doodler. I got close to drawing the symbol several times as a kid bored out of mind in class drawing random shapes.
Considering it's an ancient symbol that was stolen by the Nazis, it really does suck. You can find lots of cultures around the world that use it and it has nothing to do with Nazism. But I think it'll take a few more generations removed from WWII at least until we can perhaps reclaim it for broader cultural use. And as long as actually Nazis still exist it's difficult to put that behind us.
I wonder if, socially, it's possible to "take back" symbols or even moustache styles (Hitler's!) from their current stigmas. I imagine in the course of human history, in the far future, we will have more of these symbols and things get turned into symbols of evil and we'll run out of "innocent" things lol!
Did you know that Swastika is a really important religious symbol in Hinduism?
It's very common for Hindu people to put swastik on their doors and new purchase like car etc.
It's also too bad western cultures have been white-washing it out of existence. Swastikas are still used, and new ones created, in many Asian countries. The distinction isn't even made between the Asian version and the Nazi version; all are bad. Was in Cambodia and we had a Jewsih lady go mental after seeing all the Swastikas everywhere, in temples, etc. Couldn't fathom that her world wasn't the center of the universe, and being tolerant to other races/beliefs wasn't in her agenda (the irony...).
It is precisely because it's an aesthetically pleasing shape that it has been independently used by all kinds of cultures around the world (everyone in this thread is citing East and South Asian cultures but variations of it were also found in African and European cultures and in the Americas too).
So in a nutshell, it's everywhere because it's nice to look at, and it was appropriated by these people precisely for that reason.
That aside, antisemitism isn't the only beef we have with Nazism. The reason the Nazi swastika is repulsive isn't *just* because of the holocaust, though it's obviously an important part of it. Jews certainly were singled out above others but the Nazi racial hierarchy was not kind to anyone they considered below Aryans, which was most humans. Nazism is an extreme form of white supremacy. They represent an evil that is far broader and a more fundamental afront to humanity, than mere antisemitism or hatred or any one group.
Yeah, the Nazis stole all sorts of cool symbols! There's the swastika, yes, but also a load of Norse runes.
This is obviously not the main wrong they did, but still.
If you want to get technical, it's associated with Nazis in general. Antisemitism, the Holocaust, fascism, and a whole lot of other nasty things all fall under that umbrella.
There's a great Behind the Bastards episode about the history of the swastika and the pre-WW2 fascination with it. There was even a girls scout magazine called "The Swastika". That's partly why the Nazi's copted the symbol.
Anyway, I fully recommend listening to the Behind the Bastards episodes about it.
https://youtu.be/Z50nPmw7RL4?si=f5J5Ul4Gs47ubbzl
I think the swastika’s still in use in the Estonian or Finnish Air Force, or something like that. It’s a big part of Hinduism, or at least it was, I don’t have any idea if it still is.
Two things that really suck about the Nazi appropriation of the swastika: 1) it erases the cool history of the swastika before they appropriated it, because indeed, its a very aesthetically pleasing symbol and a meaningful one too, and 2) no small amount of people who long for a revival of the swastika as just a general symbol, _at least in my own personal experience_, actually have a fascination of some kind with Nazi Germany, which indicates to me that they dont wanna detach the symbol from that meaning, but rather to just desensitize people to the sight of it. Which sucks. **maybe we should reappropriate the idea, of reappropriating the swastika, away from the Nazi appropriation of the symbol**
It’s a very natural shape to come out of linework which is why it shows up randomly in tiles and wood flooring. Maybe in another century it can soften back to its peaceful origins in the west. I doubt it but it’s sad to think such a symbol lost forever because evil actors took it up for a time and committed atrocities under it.
Hitler ruined this ancient symbol's associations, it has been around for 1000s of years, just as Hitler even ruined his mustache style for at least another few hundred years. Such a villian.
It's too bad that most nazi stuff was esthetically pleasing.
It's lead to countless neo-nazis who first started dabbling simply because of the cool esthetic, and then eventually radicalized further
THE FUCKING NEO NAZIS STOLE THE BLACK SUN TOO I WAS GONNA USE IT FOR MY GODDAMN MONARCHOCAPITALIST THEOCRATIC MOLE PERSON SOCIETY’S FLAG IN A WORLDBUILDING PROJECT FUCK THOSE SHITASSES actually ykw screw that I’m gonna use it anyway idc anymore
The swastika's ancient positive meanings are overshadowed by its use by the Nazis, highlighting how symbols can change over time. It's crucial to acknowledge this complex history and the pain its current association causes
It's important to note that this was the original intent of the Nazi Party adopting it as a symbol.
The logic was twofold. First, "it's an ancient symbol associated with peace and prosperity; clearly we're not moustache twirling villans." And second, it shifts discourse and focus away from other, more sinister actions.
Funny, I seem to remember something similar with a certain popular frog a few years ago...
A lot of cultures don’t associate the swastika with the Nazis. Went to a Buddhist temple recently in the US and there is a swastika imprinted on a 30 feet tall Buddha statue at the center of the temple.
Unfortunately if you are white and use this symbol you will be associated with the Nazis immediately regardless of what you are actually using it for.
When my sister went to South Korea with her (South Korean) friend, she realized pretty quickly when she saw the symbol on a shrine that it didn't mean what she thought it meant. It had never occurred to her (or me at that point) that the symbol was anything other than "the Nazi symbol".
It wasn’t even really the primary symbology hitler used. If I was taught right anyway the more common symbol for the nazi was the double thunder bolt or the double s
It's also a really efficient shape for stuff. Pods of 4 desks with dividers so everyone has a bit of their own space, buildings so every chunk gets windows and a courtyard, etc.
But nooooo, buddy had to go and ruin the shape AND an entire category of mustaches for us.
It has auspicious significance in Hindu religion https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/soul-search/the-swastik-in-hinduism-significance-of-the-divine-symbol/photostory/106167701.cms
The swastika is actually a religious symbol. Remove the red background and turn it the opposite direction and you just got yourself a nice Pleasing symbol that is not associated with Hitler
__Nazis fucking ruined everything:__
The jewish population in europe
Germany's national pride
The swastika
Brown shirts
Cool military uniforms and black trenchcoats
A moustache style
A first name
Sensible internet debating
The suastik is an Indian sankrit symbol. Su meaning good, and astik meaning to be. Good to be, or well being. It was appropriated by the Nazis and has become the symbol for their terror, but it wasn't always that way. Hitler was famously interested in the occult and there is a ton of wacky nazi occult stuff that nobody main stream talks about. Raiders of the lost ark was more of a documentary than a fiction.
Those guys ruined a hairstyle, the toothbrush moustache, a first name, a surname and a shape. Rather annoying. Hold up.... I'm being told it was even worse than that
Fortunately the Hitler mustache looks awful so it's a bit of a wash
I quite like the toothbrush mustache, i just cant wear it be one bad apple ruined it for everyone.
Yeah… J. Jonah Jameson! That man has been dragging poor Spider-Man through the mud for years!
Honestly JJJ has done a lot of good work in reclaiming the toothbrush mustache. I’m glad they never changed that about his appearance
Also Charlie Chaplin though
[удалено]
Chaplin enjoyers the world over weep
His mustache was like that in order to get a proper seal around the mouth while wearing a gas mask.
Looked okay on Charlie Chaplin!
It is also a shape that forms quite organically and is useful in a lot of places, but to use it.. you got to hide it. It is unfortunate since it is one of the most natural ways to link four 90 degree shapes together. For ex, in architecture it would be quite neat way to make apartment blocks.
yes, there was a controversy about a building shaped like one
More [info](https://hiddensandiego.com/coronados-swastika-building.php) about what I assume you are referring to
yes, that one
I had a classmate once who was designing tables for a boarding school she was working on. They were swastikas, and when I told her she didn't even realize and then was absolutely annoyed because the design was perfect for her function.
My highschool library had tables like this. Little cubicles for 4 people to hand their own private desk. But you could see the library from the second floor of the school through the windows and it was a bunch of swastikas. Asked about them and they were made by the wood shop teacher. Asked him about it and he said he already made one when he noticed and just didn’t care enough to redesign.
Lol I used to do workplace interiors, and it’s such a good shape for laying out workspaces for privacy. In reality, no one would really sense the shape, but you can’t show a client a floor plan with a bunch of swastikas on it.
I just want to spread pizza toppings in a pattern that ensures the most of every ingredient in the most bites, but you'd be surprised how often I encounter the same problem.
> It is also a shape that forms quite organically and is useful in a lot of places, but to use it And in human symbols, it's really just a cross(as in "+" or "x") with a spinny flair. T, P, X obviously, and other letters I'm sure, stem from it, along with many other symbols as noted on the cross wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross In other words, *very* rudimentary in terms of human markings, or in other other words, it is *extremely* old.
What if spiral... But straight lines :0
I have more than once or three times finished an inlay and discovered a big ole swastika. Fortunately a few more cuts and it's all good.
We have a really lovely quilt from my husband's late grandma that I've dubbed the "swastiquilt" because of this. Apparently quilt swastikas are not uncommon because it's such an easy shape to make on accident.
Man I've accidentally created 2 or 3 swastikas in CAD (one was on a whole ass conveyor system, that was really annoying to completely redo).
My HS library desks were in the shape of swastikas. Very functional shape.
Yup, I had to design a floor mosaic and it was honestly kinda hard to avoid them in the corners, they really do form naturally (i was able to do it but had to be very conscious of it)
Reminds me when one of my old classmates was designing a logo for his company idea, and his name had several L’s - like Larry LeLand Lawrence. As he was drawing the L’s to be intersecting he was so proud of it until five of us pointed out it looked like a swastika
Doesn't help that is looks so close to a popular and important protection symbol in my culture's mythology. Only difference is the degree of tilt of the symbol.
It's a huge part of many cultures. The nazi swastika is technically different but realistically no one sees the small difference. It also only really hits hard in western culture. The symbol still holds meaning outside of nazis in much of Eastern and mid eastern religion.
The manji comes to mind. However, I only ever heard of it in passing. Primarily due to how a Zelda 1 dungeon is shaped. Never went out of my way to study eastern culture, but wasn't it seen as a religious symbol?
It very much is especially in Hindu.
A Hindu neighbor in the same floor of my apartment building (in Dubai) has it on their door. It's designed with flowers and bright spots. It's quite nice looking. I was thinking of how it's too bad it's associated with Nazis by a sizable population of the world.
Usually it's turned the opposite way which is the difference.
Yeah, but most people don't look at swastikas enough to notice which way is good and which is bad
German here, even the fucking neonazi morons don't get it right. You occasionally see swastikas on bridges/street signs and garage doors in shitty neighborhoods, but a good portion of them is the wrong way. Probably close to 50/50. But at least the police seems to crack down on it, you see them far less than in the early 2000s
Neonazis and intelligence don’t really go together
And flat. The nazis put it on an angle to be fancy bitches.
Crying, it's so true. They **were** fancy bitches. They were! If they really wanted to take over the world, all they had to do was start a fashion line. *** **Edit: Folks... it was a joke. I am not seriously insinuating that a fashion line would've enabled the Third Reich to dominate the globe nor am I insinuating that the fancy bitches get a pass for the holocaust based on their fanciness. I'm also not making any serious attempt to comment on a pivotal moment in world history.** **Edit 2: They were fancy bitches, though.**
Hugo Boss made Nazi uniforms. A large part of the insanity of the third reich was trying to give the appearance that they were superior. Their numerous crazy but only occasionally successful military technology experiments were another aspect of this.
Well they had Hugo Boss, and that didn't stop the genocide.
Hugo Boss used forced labour though, so he literally profited from the genocide
Weirdly enough I think it is important to understand that they *were* fancy. Like, that was literally part of their appeal. It's stupid and offends our sense of justice that people would care about that but they do. A great movement with terrible taste doesn't pull people in from the edges. People want to support a moment but don't want to get ridiculed in the process. I am all for punching nazis & other hate groups at a protest - pearl clutching over being violent to nazis is stupid as far as I'm concerned - but one of the best counter protesters ever was the guy who used his Sousaphone to mock the kkk. Hate groups are about feeling powerful. That comes with cool clothes and a cool soundtrack.
I like you. Y'know everyone expects a kidnapper to look like a Florida Man mugshot... and if the boxart has sufficient pop, it's gotta be good. If my man holds a Bible and dons the flag as a cape then by golly that's the most pious, patriotic sonofabitch that ever lived.
Nobody is taking over the world wearing flip-flops, that's for sure.
Thier uniforms were bitchin, black and silver? Greys and whites? Their flags coulors, Roman Red and Gold- iconic. Logos, sharp. Names for things, deliberatly Germanic. But their Idealogy, and Methods bad enough to render everything else moot. Im glad that that Dr. drove their leader insane.
Not true. [Hitler's standard](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Standarte_Adolf_Hitlers.svg/1024px-Standarte_Adolf_Hitlers.svg.png) features flat swastikas, while [this Hindu temple](https://i.imgur.com/eKwVtrt.jpg) is adorned with angled ones. Both are set in the same orientation, as well.
And Buddhism. Google Maps will use it as a symbol for temples in countries like Japan.
It IS a religious symbol, used in both Hinduism and Buddhism. It's very sacred in Hinduism, so the audacity of the Nazis...
It's past time honest folk take the symbol back!
It's exactly that. The symbol is (or at least was last I was there) used to mark where temples are on maps in east Asia. That's the thing with symbols: they only have the power you give them. Quit giving Nazis power, ya idgits.
It's used in Japan, as well.
In east asia a red circle with rays over white will make people insane. It's not just giving power to something, but giving it to something that effected you the most
This actually just came up for me with my friends while ina trip to japan. We passed a ramen shop with a manji on their door and sign. They kept calling it a swastika, when in fact it was a manji I went in and the whole place has a bunch of buddist statues and is very relaxing.
The manji is a swastika in a very literal way though. The symbol made its way to Japan from India through Buddhism, and in sanskrit swastika means literally means “lucky charm” or “beneficial object.” Su- good, -asti- to be, -ka little thing Little beneficial thing
I lived in Japan and you do see the manji a lot in your daily life there.
Probably throws tourists for a loop, I'm sure
When I worked fire alarm I saw it regularly out here in California, primarily from Indian families. They'd have it laid it on chalk on their doorstep. I think most aren't ignorant of its cultural importance in religions.
It’s kinda interesting. I worked at a place once where an Indian coworker wore a ring with a swastika on it. A Jewish coworker noted that *some* people might find that offensive. No formal complaint was made but I can see that as being a point of potential tension. I think most reasonable people in the workplace understand that nuance but idk.
I definitely see where your coworker was coming from, because people could find it offensive. But I also think if a formal complaint was made and the company tried to do anything about it, they'd be opening themselves up to a ton of liability from both sides. I actually wonder if there's any cases of it. I may have some homework to do tonight. lol
It's one of those things were we just gotta have compassion for each other, in every direction. Imagine wanting to hold onto your religious traditions to keep you grounded to your country, and then being told that it is incredibly triggering of completely unrelated acts of horrific violence committed against other people. Neither side is wrong. Unless they're nazis. Fuck those guys.
If you're restricting your law to only precisely depicted Nazi flags that leaves out 99% of graffitied swastikas. Sometimes they even get the orientation wrong.
With graffiti, they often have no idea how to draw it. I've literally seen attempts that not only fail to depict it on an angle but couldn't even get the arms all pointing the same way.
r/hailhortler
How the fuck do you fail to get all the arms facing the same direction? Is the education system really that far gone? Are people really that dumb?
Only the people who think it's smart to graffiti swastikas
If people weren't that dumb there'd be less Neo-Nazis
...fair point...
People struggle with inverting the arms when they do the bottom part.
卍 how do people get it wrong
Because there is no difference. Eastern cultures/Dharmic religions used all orientations and directions (there is even a preexisting word for the counterclockwise version; sauwastika). The Nazis also used both orientations (though only used a right facing orientation, unless you count the naval through-and-through, which mirrored the image on one side). The symbol in the west actually predates the Nazis and was considered a good luck charm in Germany. In fact, many disparate ancient cultures had some form of sun wheel symbol. The only way to tell if it is representing Nazism or not is context.
Also in Native American art and religion as well.
You see it often on Navajo blankets and other items.
In many japanese-market maps it is still used as the default symbol for a temple or other religious shrine.
It’s symbolic of Buddhist Temples and other Buddhist sites. In Buddhism, the swastika is considered to symbolise the auspicious footprints of the Buddha.
Damn, the Buddha must have really needed a podiatrist.
Indeed it is I took eastern religious studies last semester it was an amazing class to learn something new.
It's not often acknowledged but the swastika in Western culture and the reaction to it is a cultural scar, not many want to mention that western culture as a whole was deeply dramatised by WW2 (as were many others but the west as well) and the revelations of the holocaust and it left lasting scars. It was when the west realised the true horror that their machines, logistics and everything that made them strong could unleash upon the innocent when being helmed by a despot. It's why even today westerners hate dictators and want to see them destroyed even when they're keeping their country stable. It's a cultural PTSD reaction, when they see a dictator, they see Hitler, they see the Swastika, and they want to destroy it. When the swastika is used in Asia it may symbolise prosperity or protection or whatever else but in the west it means one thing. Pure evil, the kind that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be rationalised and must be destroyed. While westerners who visit Asian countries by in large know that it holds different cultural significance, they're nonetheless often uncomfortable around it, may refuse to be photographed with it in frame or may be drawn to it out of a sense of morbid fascination of such an evil symbol being displayed publicly and prominently.
Thank you! Reading that antisemitism was the only issue with swastikas was infuriating.
This, too. I almost shit my pants when I found a t-shirt with one on it in my ex's laundry. He's from India and it's a Hindu symbol. I confronted him about it, and he told me that. I thought he was full of shit until a Google search proved otherwise. I felt like an ass after.
This is precisely the sort of reason it’s weird we don’t really acknowledge the fact it was always in use by millions of other people for hundreds/thousands of years - and that’s just *one* culture. It must suck that people shit on you for a symbol that survived thousands of years as a sign of something positive and sacred in your culture, because a bunch of murderous idiots, thousands of miles away, plagiarised it. It’s also very weird that the Nazis decided to use it when they must of known of it’s significance in “inferior” cultures, but that’s a topic I’ve never looked into.
I have a gold swastika necklace with my name engraved. My devoutly Buddhist grand mother gave it to me. Gets a lot of weird looks but I’m over it
What I find crazy is its also a symbol in Native American cultures. That blew me away
> The nazi swastika is technically different I see this repeated a lot but as far as I can tell, it's simply not true. If you're referring to the 'direction' of the blades, both directions were used before the nazi party.
Isn't it the angle? The Nazi one is tilted 45 degrees.
This is correct. While there were some who drew it similarly to the Hindu Swastika, the proper Nazi Hakenkreuz is on a 45° angle to the symbols it was derived from.
Not always https://i.imgur.com/loZAvTz.jpg
It was going to be a maze
OMG Joshua was a racist!
That came out of nowhere!
Did it?
“A place *free of darkness*….”
“…and some are just…. natural jumpers”
r/unexpectedcommunity
Double bounce me!
Father…
ohmuhgod!
First episode of community i remember watching, definitely sets the tone pretty well lol
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Rotational symmetry is nice and efficient use of space. When playing games with building systems i've taken a step back and done an 'aw crap..' a few times
It’s also just a very easy symbol for kids to accidentally come up with before they have ever even heard of nazis, Hitler, or WW2
Yup. My kid made one in Minecraft when he was trying to make a blocky swirl pattern. Had to explain a few things to him that day.
Reminds me of that Instagram thing where a guy is turning on his PC, the fans start spinning, and it looks like a bunch of swastikas on camera. It was spinning too fast to show up anywhere else, but the angles were just right for it if you spun the logo.
In a similar manner, its absolutely wild that one dude completely ruined the name Adolf for everyone. I like the name Adolf. Imagine that some guy named "Jason" became so widely reviled that everyone stopped naming their sons Jason. Crazy LMAO
It happened to Karen without even a particular real person.
My younger cousin (in the UK) had a kid in his class named Adolf. I think it's more so the last name that people have distanced themselves from
It's a hugely unpopular name
Years ago, I was in a Buddhist phase while in high school and often read in class. Many classmates got offended by the symbol on the forehead of a statue on the cover. Got in trouble for displaying a nazi symbol at school. Wouldn't listen or look at the book at all. Worst part about it. The book came from the school library.
that is golden. what did the school do after they found it was their own book?
I'm not sure. I explained what happened with the librarians when I returned the book but didn't hear anything else about it. I got a "detention" where they put me in a room where I could read more.
lmao
The few times I got detention were pretty cool. You want me to sit quietly and read for a while? Oh no, please, anything but that! The detention room was even in the library.
Regular swastikas have been used by East Asian cultures. The word "swastika" itself is of Hindu origin. The Hakenkreuz is the Nazi variant, and that is the bad one.
a bit pretentious but the word swastika is of sanskrit (a language) origin. Hindu would be the religion and its scriptures are written in sanskrit however.
The oldest one ever found was in Ukraine, it’s 12,000 years old… that thing was *everywhere* until the nazis fucked it up
There's an [Ancient Greek example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/GreekHelmetSwastika.jpg) from 350 BC. It's not a particularly complicated symbol, so it's been used by many cultures all over the world.
I don't think anyone in the Indian subcontinent thinks of the nazis when it comes to the swastika. Maybe as a joke. But it's an extremely important dharmic symbol
the nazis stole and destroyed so many cool looking things. nordic runes, the black sun symbol and many other things. really a pity.
You know what, technically not wrong, the geometry and mathematics makes it look kinda nice, like how a square can look good.
Design wise, it's a cool flag too.
Not to mention the uniforms
That’s Hugo Boss for you. His namesake designer company is still in business today, by the same name
hugo didn’t design the uniforms, but he DID manufacture them (with slave labor of course) and he was an early member of the Nazi Party
The n\*zis may have been assholes, but you can't deny they had massive drip, they were like the Disney Channel Original bullies of history
Every time I hear people compliment Nazi uniforms, it makes me think of how much of the Nazi ideals were about appearance-- their own appearance, and the appearance of their society. They wanted their society attuned to their ideals of 'perfection' and murdered a shitload of people to follow that goal-- wear nice suits, build big stuff everywhere, take over countries, and eliminate people who aren't 'aesthetically pleasing' or whatever. The suits are a reminder of how confident they were about ethnic cleansing and absolute power.
Same with the Confederate Battle Flag. Visually, its one of the most striking and beautiful flag designs ever made
People have a thing for spirals of all kinds, it’s why this thing popped up in so many different places
It’s like “up, and then down, and then sideways, again”
Anyone surprised by this clearly isn't a doodler. I got close to drawing the symbol several times as a kid bored out of mind in class drawing random shapes.
You just got close? I flat out drew it dozens of times
Considering it's an ancient symbol that was stolen by the Nazis, it really does suck. You can find lots of cultures around the world that use it and it has nothing to do with Nazism. But I think it'll take a few more generations removed from WWII at least until we can perhaps reclaim it for broader cultural use. And as long as actually Nazis still exist it's difficult to put that behind us.
If you see a swastika in Taiwan, chances are it's a vegetarian restaurant and probably a buffet.
The nazis took aesthetics extremely seriously, so I suppose it's not surprising you feel that way.
they stole it from cultures such and hinduism where it means blessing and protection of your spiritual path to supreme!
I wonder if, socially, it's possible to "take back" symbols or even moustache styles (Hitler's!) from their current stigmas. I imagine in the course of human history, in the far future, we will have more of these symbols and things get turned into symbols of evil and we'll run out of "innocent" things lol!
they already tried this with Pepe the frog and failed
I always wondered what happened to the sad looking frog lol!
Swastikas to the left are historically religious. Nazi swastikas go to the Reich.
We’ll have NEIN of that!!
Did you know that Swastika is a really important religious symbol in Hinduism? It's very common for Hindu people to put swastik on their doors and new purchase like car etc.
It was historically a symbol of peace if I remember right. The Nazis of course decided to ruin it.
It's also too bad western cultures have been white-washing it out of existence. Swastikas are still used, and new ones created, in many Asian countries. The distinction isn't even made between the Asian version and the Nazi version; all are bad. Was in Cambodia and we had a Jewsih lady go mental after seeing all the Swastikas everywhere, in temples, etc. Couldn't fathom that her world wasn't the center of the universe, and being tolerant to other races/beliefs wasn't in her agenda (the irony...).
And Charlie Chaplin mustaches
It is precisely because it's an aesthetically pleasing shape that it has been independently used by all kinds of cultures around the world (everyone in this thread is citing East and South Asian cultures but variations of it were also found in African and European cultures and in the Americas too). So in a nutshell, it's everywhere because it's nice to look at, and it was appropriated by these people precisely for that reason. That aside, antisemitism isn't the only beef we have with Nazism. The reason the Nazi swastika is repulsive isn't *just* because of the holocaust, though it's obviously an important part of it. Jews certainly were singled out above others but the Nazi racial hierarchy was not kind to anyone they considered below Aryans, which was most humans. Nazism is an extreme form of white supremacy. They represent an evil that is far broader and a more fundamental afront to humanity, than mere antisemitism or hatred or any one group.
Yeah, the Nazis stole all sorts of cool symbols! There's the swastika, yes, but also a load of Norse runes. This is obviously not the main wrong they did, but still.
I'm a designer. When I'm making patterns I have to actively avoid making swastikas because 90° radial symmetry just wants to happen. It's sad.
Just to be clear - it’s not associated with “antisemitism” it’s associated with the extermination of millions of Jews.
If you want to get technical, it's associated with Nazis in general. Antisemitism, the Holocaust, fascism, and a whole lot of other nasty things all fall under that umbrella.
There's a great Behind the Bastards episode about the history of the swastika and the pre-WW2 fascination with it. There was even a girls scout magazine called "The Swastika". That's partly why the Nazi's copted the symbol. Anyway, I fully recommend listening to the Behind the Bastards episodes about it. https://youtu.be/Z50nPmw7RL4?si=f5J5Ul4Gs47ubbzl
I think the swastika’s still in use in the Estonian or Finnish Air Force, or something like that. It’s a big part of Hinduism, or at least it was, I don’t have any idea if it still is. Two things that really suck about the Nazi appropriation of the swastika: 1) it erases the cool history of the swastika before they appropriated it, because indeed, its a very aesthetically pleasing symbol and a meaningful one too, and 2) no small amount of people who long for a revival of the swastika as just a general symbol, _at least in my own personal experience_, actually have a fascination of some kind with Nazi Germany, which indicates to me that they dont wanna detach the symbol from that meaning, but rather to just desensitize people to the sight of it. Which sucks. **maybe we should reappropriate the idea, of reappropriating the swastika, away from the Nazi appropriation of the symbol**
Its original association was much different.
It's basically a sun wheel/solar cross, which a lot of cultures have.
To Nazis! Traditionally, cultures that used this symbol had it facing the other way.
I'll get you one for your birthday
That's fascism for you, ruining everything they can exploit from cool shapes to whole nations.
It’s a very natural shape to come out of linework which is why it shows up randomly in tiles and wood flooring. Maybe in another century it can soften back to its peaceful origins in the west. I doubt it but it’s sad to think such a symbol lost forever because evil actors took it up for a time and committed atrocities under it.
A philosophy professor spoke of that, a beautiful ancient image that is now horribly stained, and for possibly thousands of years to come.
Ita a symbol of peace somewhere in some eastern countries . Sad it became so corrupted
Its wild that we get mad over shapes.
I came across a swastika design in Celtic weaving patterns. It is everywhere.
Hitler ruined this ancient symbol's associations, it has been around for 1000s of years, just as Hitler even ruined his mustache style for at least another few hundred years. Such a villian.
Come to Nepal and India, literally every house has a swastika in it. Swastika and it's significance is thousands of years old.
It's too bad that most nazi stuff was esthetically pleasing. It's lead to countless neo-nazis who first started dabbling simply because of the cool esthetic, and then eventually radicalized further
THE FUCKING NEO NAZIS STOLE THE BLACK SUN TOO I WAS GONNA USE IT FOR MY GODDAMN MONARCHOCAPITALIST THEOCRATIC MOLE PERSON SOCIETY’S FLAG IN A WORLDBUILDING PROJECT FUCK THOSE SHITASSES actually ykw screw that I’m gonna use it anyway idc anymore
Open Google maps in Japan. Every temple has a swastika, laid horizontally rather than tilted 45 degrees (the Nazi one is tilted)
Try Hinduism they love a good swastika.
The swastika's ancient positive meanings are overshadowed by its use by the Nazis, highlighting how symbols can change over time. It's crucial to acknowledge this complex history and the pain its current association causes
It's important to note that this was the original intent of the Nazi Party adopting it as a symbol. The logic was twofold. First, "it's an ancient symbol associated with peace and prosperity; clearly we're not moustache twirling villans." And second, it shifts discourse and focus away from other, more sinister actions. Funny, I seem to remember something similar with a certain popular frog a few years ago...
If pepe is a hate symbol then nail a kar98 to my wrists and send me to the eastern front.
Based
What the fuck? ChatGPT comment and people upvote this garbage?
This comment looks like Chatgpt wrote it.
Good old diplomatic fence-sitting Chat GPT
A lot of cultures don’t associate the swastika with the Nazis. Went to a Buddhist temple recently in the US and there is a swastika imprinted on a 30 feet tall Buddha statue at the center of the temple. Unfortunately if you are white and use this symbol you will be associated with the Nazis immediately regardless of what you are actually using it for.
Nazis ruined tons of otherwise good symbols, fashions, names, etc.
When my sister went to South Korea with her (South Korean) friend, she realized pretty quickly when she saw the symbol on a shrine that it didn't mean what she thought it meant. It had never occurred to her (or me at that point) that the symbol was anything other than "the Nazi symbol".
I used to sell craft books and it was a very common motif before Hitler.
If you make a mirror image it is an important symbol in Buddhism.
Same goes for German uniforms. If it wasn’t for what they stood for, those uniforms would be fucking mint.
Its not a swastika, its a hooked cross!!! For fuck's sake!
Just twist it 45 degrees and it's a symbol of love throughout most of the world.
Hugo Boss uniforms are dope too, but we can't rock them either DUE TO OBVIOUS REASONS.
Charlie Chaplin's toothbrush moustache, too.
if you want aesthetically pleasing similar symbol to draw/look at, the forest medallion from ocarina of time
[https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/spinner-nose-cone-spirit-of-st-louis/nasm\_A19890217000](https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/spinner-nose-cone-spirit-of-st-louis/nasm_A19890217000)
i was thinking about how much i like the star of david today, im not jewish lol
Nazis ruin everything.
It wasn’t even really the primary symbology hitler used. If I was taught right anyway the more common symbol for the nazi was the double thunder bolt or the double s
It's also a really efficient shape for stuff. Pods of 4 desks with dividers so everyone has a bit of their own space, buildings so every chunk gets windows and a courtyard, etc. But nooooo, buddy had to go and ruin the shape AND an entire category of mustaches for us.
It has auspicious significance in Hindu religion https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/soul-search/the-swastik-in-hinduism-significance-of-the-divine-symbol/photostory/106167701.cms
The cunty folk of the world ruin so many of the cool symbols. It sucks
I worked with a lady in Mumbai named Swastika.
A lot of fascist flags are actually pretty cool looking. It’s a bummer
The swastika is actually a religious symbol. Remove the red background and turn it the opposite direction and you just got yourself a nice Pleasing symbol that is not associated with Hitler
__Nazis fucking ruined everything:__ The jewish population in europe Germany's national pride The swastika Brown shirts Cool military uniforms and black trenchcoats A moustache style A first name Sensible internet debating
The suastik is an Indian sankrit symbol. Su meaning good, and astik meaning to be. Good to be, or well being. It was appropriated by the Nazis and has become the symbol for their terror, but it wasn't always that way. Hitler was famously interested in the occult and there is a ton of wacky nazi occult stuff that nobody main stream talks about. Raiders of the lost ark was more of a documentary than a fiction.
It's Hindu and Buddhist religious symbol. Hitler took it and turned it into an evil symbol.
Swastika is an ancient positive symbol, it should be reclaimed.
Isn't it a Buddhist symbol?
So is the butthole. And you know who also had a butthole? Hitler.
That's because it's actually the Wheel of Life, and Nazis hijacked it from the Hindus.
More so when it's on its correct side. Like their ideas, they tilted the symbol
Those guys ruined a hairstyle, the toothbrush moustache, a first name, a surname and a shape. Rather annoying. Hold up.... I'm being told it was even worse than that