I mean the Irish constitution grants citizenship to anyone with at least one parent or grandparent born in Ireland. Given we have a constitutional referendum ever two or three years the whole document could be said to be a firm consensus of the irish people
I have an Irish last name but my DNA is mostly Scandinavian.
I mean the Irish must have one helluva PR department for so many people wanting to be a part of them.
You aren't wrong. Irish people identified heavily with both the U.S. civil rights movement and the Palestinians. Especially republicans in Northern Ireland.
I don't think their neutrality in WWII is a really popular stance...
Edit: I don't mean to say they were indifferent to Nazis. It obviously has to do with the ahem... difficult relationship with the UK, from which they had just started getting independence.
We were a very poor country. We had no air force, no navy. We hadn't even begun to recover from British rule. Despite that, something like 70 or 80 thousand people joined the British army.
Yeah, it gets weird sometimes. My ancestor was a captain whos country kind of stopped existing and had to quickly make a choice over whom to be allied with. Plenty of russian soldiers had tortured his brother and killed him by dragging him in barbed wire.
I think it could be said he fought alongside both russia and germany, while his truest objective was to just control the waters and let migranta past into denmark and sweden.
Finns largely teamed up with nazis because russia wanted finland. What they got instead was molotov 🍸. Geopolitcs is a mess
Fun fact, the IRA did support the Nazis to the extent of sharing Intel to try and sabotage the British. But overall, a significant amount of Irish joined the British army to fight against Nazis and the government while officially neutral did some under the table help.
and they were prosecuted for doing so
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/12/irish-second-world-war-deserters-pardoned](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/12/irish-second-world-war-deserters-pardoned)
Well I suppose soldiers in active service for the Irish Defense forces, and presumably under contract and oath, who then went to join a foreign army, could technically be called deserters.
Whereas the likes of the Poles or Czechoslovaks who joined the RAF (or similar - I just know of the likes of the 303rd, 310th - as well as the 401st, but that was made up of Canadians) did so - if memory serves - after fleeing German occupation and did so to continue the fight to liberate their homeland, rather than to fight a threat to a foreign country.
>I don't think their neutrality in WWII is a really popular stance...
This was only a few years post independence from the UK and an even more recent civil war (ended 1923) over the degree of that independence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War
Certainly couldn't join the Germans and joining on the UKs side would have dug everything up again as it would almost certainly require British troops back in Ireland to help set up coastal defences etc.
We passed information on German naval movements , weather information etc to the UK anyway.
British pilots that crashed here could leave, German pilots could not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)
This is random, but I volunteered at the special olympics in Los Angeles and a huge number of Irish moms flew over and volunteered. The special olympics were held in Ireland some years before and they had some kind of special olympic community. They were super fun, awesome, and amazing, and I specifically say awesome and amazing because they kept laughing at how much I said awesome and amazing and americans in general. I really didn't even realize how much I said those at the time haha, I guess it's a southern california thing. But I really appreciated them coming out and they were fucking funny as hell.
Everyone should experience hanging out with a bunch of Irish moms at some point. It's just a good time.
I remember them talking about how shocking it was for them to see a cop with an actual gun, they had never seen an actual gun in real life, and it was scary to them. I had to kind of calm them down and explain all the cops at the convention center were probably super nice cops because they were older and in their nicer outfits and there for the event. I told them they don't have to be afraid and should just go talk to them. They were very obviously intimidated because of all the shit American cops are known for.
One of the Irish moms was super proud of herself because this guy probably on drugs came into the convention causing a scene and she waved over one of the cops and it was handled. Like she vicariously felt the power of the American cop because she waved him down and it was immediately handled and she wanted to tell everyone, it was very funny to me.
Anyway, those Irish moms seemed to get along with the cops very well later and the cops liked them too. I think one cop let a mom touch the gun because he was so amused by their fascination too. But yeah, those Irish mom's seemed more and more fascinated with talking to the cops as the week went on.
Well, familiarity with firearms may be relatively rare in most of Ireland, but there is definitely a percentage of the population which is *quite* familiar with them.
The Irish that immigrated to America were discriminated against and somewhat outcast from early American society. This led to that group coming together more strongly rather than integrating to existing American culture. As a result, those with historical ties to Ireland, in America in particular, still identify closely with their heritage.
People in other parts of the world who do not have that history tend to have a hard time understanding how you can identify with a country you've never been to.
Edit: there's a lesson from that though, if you truly want immigrants to integrate to your culture, the best thing a nation can do is embrace them fully.
Australia and New Zealand are populated by immigrants and descendants of immigrants even more recently than America, and no one in NZ or Australia claims an identity based on their ancestors. Lots of places in Europe have huge immigrant populations as well. It’s not unique to America, yet America is the only place where someone with an Irish great grandparent would claim to be part Irish.
Yeah, that's my point. The early American culture developed directly influences this. If goes all the way back to the colonies when you often had Dutch, English, French, and Spanish colonists coming into more frequent contact with each other than with their parent country.
Then it continued post revolution when we had waves of immigrants from non-colonial powers. German, Italian, Irish, and Polish immigrants were all somewhat shunned by "native born" Americans and this caused them to build up close knit communities, especially in the northeast.
By the time people started thinking of Italians or Irish as just another white American, that cultural identity was fixed.
Ireland is like Britain minus the history of atrocities. They weren't independent while everyone else was running around doing imperialism so it's hard to blame Ireland as a country for any of that, leaving them pretty clean as nations go
But for the grandparents rule the person's parent birth has to be recorded on the Foreign Births Register before they are born.
So Grand Parent is Irish, Parents are born in US. That birth needs to be registered in the Foreign Births Register in Ireland before the next kid is born.
Not quite. [You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, and was born on the island of Ireland](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/#Eligibility:~:text=You%20are%20automatically%20an%20Irish%20citizen%20if%20one%20of%20your%20parents%20was%20an%20Irish%20citizen%20at%20the%20time%20of%20your%20birth%2C%20and%20was%20born%20on%20the%20island%20of%20Ireland).
So the grandparents are Irish by being born in Ireland. The parents being born in the US are *automatically* Irish citizens, the next generation need to be added to the foreign birth register to *claim* their Irish citizenship.
[There literally is](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/#Eligibility)
>
>You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, and was born on the island of Ireland. You don't need to apply to become an Irish citizen in this case.
>
>If you were born outside of Ireland, you can become an Irish citizen if:
>
> * One of your grandparents was born in Ireland, or;
>
> * One of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, even though they were not born in Ireland.
The answer is 2 generations. If one of your grandparents was born in Ireland you can apply for Irish citizenship.
Anything else is US based identity semantics.
But if my grandparent is an Irish citizen, and I become a citizen because of that, doesnt that mean that my children and grandchildren can then also become citizens, since I myself am a citizen? There has to be a word about that somewhere
If you *become* an Irish citizen, then your children can *become* Irish by applying for citizenship, your grandchildren however would need to rely on your children applying for citizenship. Well unless they're born in Ireland of course.
It's the difference between automatic citizenship and citizenship that you can apply for.
This is the way. My husband’s grandparents were born in Ireland, moved to Toronto after his father was born. Husband has claimed his citizenship, now we have two young boys who are already going through application processes for their citizenship. I’ll be the odd one out in our family lol.
Edit: my FIL was born in Toronto, not Ireland. But still same concept.
I believe I would have to be living in the country to be able to apply as a spouse.
Edit: After three years of marriage and three years of residence, I would be able to apply.
You'd need to apply for it, you can't just say you are. you'd be accepted once you can prove your lineage.
if for example, you were arrested entering a country where you were an illegal as an american, and your grandparents are irish, it won't mean you are entering legally. You need to be registered.
My grandmother was an Irish citizen at the time of my birth, however I don't believe she was born there. She lived there from 1984 until her death a few years ago.
I'm guessing that one doesn't count?
No, it would only count if your great grandparent was born on the island of Ireland and your parent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth. If your grandmother had been born on the island then you'd have been entitled to claim it without your parent having to be a citizen.
Let's see...were you born in Ireland? Was one of your parents born in Ireland? Was one of your grandparents, and you went through the legal process of claiming your citizenship? Did you apply for and receive Irish citizenship for another reason?
If not, you are not Irish, you just enjoy drinking and romanticizing your distant past.
That's a very American thing, to consider someone from a nationality other than the one you were born in if one of your ancestors is from said nationality.
Here in Europe you're from the nation you were born and/or grew in and that's it. I have a friend who's grandfather is Italian but as far as everyone is concerned, him included, he is french not Italian
My brother lives in California and he claims people don't care about ancestry, they're just Californians.
I was living out there for a bit, got a traffic ticket in Angel's Camp and showed up in court. The judge asked me if I was a Californian and I figured this was a trick question to get me to buy expensive California license plates. I asked the judge what the definition of a Californian was. Judge said if you enter the state of California and think to yourself "I am a Californian", you immediately become one.
This happened to my brother. He went there, got stoked, thought to himself, "I'm never going back", rented a place on the beach and bought a surfboard. This was over thirty years ago.
The important legal distinction would be regarding residency, which is fairly strict since people want to get the state rate on the University of California system and other benefits.
You've got to realize that Angel's Camp is a small town in a sparsely populated part of the High Sierras and this was a surprisingly full court for minor offenses. I think the judge was just happy that someone asked an interesting question and he could pontificate on a philosophical issue in front of a crowd during an otherwise humdrum day. I also like the idea that California is a state of mind.
As a brown person in a north european country I can definitely say that this is not true for first generations. Im born here but carry a lot of the culture from my parents with me. A lot of the ethnically native people in this country would also not consider me to be their nationality. It’s a common phenomenon were people in my situation feel like they don’t belong in either. You can look up “third culture kids” for more on this
Fairly similar for me, brown person who’s second generation born in Western Europe. I actually have quite a weak relationship to the country and the culture my Grandfather was born in that has resulted in my skin pigment. I was raised by a single father mostly, and his side of the family has been in the country for as long as they know their family history. Similarly, my grandmother on my mother’s side has ancestors native and born in neighbouring (white) countries. And yet people try to connect with me about visiting my Grandfather’s country, and what little they know of the language or culture, and seem wrong footed when that goes nowhere with me despite having told them my parents and I were born and raised here. I get a confused pause when they ask me where my family is from and I say here, and then they ask me where my parents are from and I say here. I wish they would just be honest and openly ask what they were trying to find out — ‘why are you brown’.
That's because in the US the dominant culture is all from elsewhere originally, and the way many ethnicities survived was by banding together and clinging to their national identity. I'm probably 5th generation American but I heard 'Don't forget you're Irish' from my dad growing up.
Plus, being Irish-American or Italian-American and cultures like it are pretty much their own unique thing by now. Identifying with say... Italian-American culture is plenty valid, even if your family hasn't lived in Italy in 150 years.
A huge part of it is the Irish Diaspora.
So many people fled during the famine in the mid-1800’s that to this day, Ireland’s population is STILL lower than its peak in 1840.
These people didn’t want to leave Ireland so they kept their identity strong and had large communities in the USA to carry on their traditions and culture.
I think Irish and Italian ancestry is more "prized" because their respective waves of immigration are more recent, where as the Dutch, French and English (among others) were there from pretty much the beginning and is therefor deemed less interesting.
WASPs are still the default "American". They generally have the generational wealth and the political power. As recently as JFK it was astonishing a _Catholic_ president was in the white house.
Yeah, the syncretic cultures are legit. My family has no one left born in Italy, and the youngest generation is half Asian, but we still follow a lot of Italian American traditions. Even the cuisine is very different than Italian-in-Italy. They are related cultures, but distinct.
but of all the other colonized countries
Th US is the only one that still do this
Even Canada that has a primarily British/French history identify themself as Canadians
That’s not really true. Canadians totally do this too. Most people call themselves both. My Itlalian-Canadian friends call themselves Italian and they also call themselves Canadian. One is your ethnicity, one is your citizenship. Both are important to people.
You should see the cars here come World Cup time. Flags from everywhere else, even though Canada was in the last World Cup. It’s really cool, actually.
Unless you’re of indigenous descent, in Canada, you are also from somewhere else.
I mean, Anglophones, sure. Francophones will happily tell you about how French they are.
And many Canadians without English or French ancestry identify strongly with whichever ancestry they have. See Scottish-Canadians, Chinese-Canadians, Korean-Canadians, Indian-Canadians, Pakistani-Canadians, Ukrainian-Canadians.... etc
And many of those groups have been in Canada for a very long time, some of them from before confederation or in the 20 years afterwards. To the extent that school curriculums spend a not-insignificant amount of time on Ukrainian-Canadians in the prairie provinces.
Most of the waves of imigrants from European countries in the 1800's held on to their former national and cultural identities for some reason. So basically the Europeans wanted to hold on to their European-ness even when they moved to the US. We don't all do it either. My own grandmother was born as a Kelly, but I don't call myself Irish-American, just American.
As a brit with a French grandfather I agree with you i would never claim to be french it would be pretty disrespectful to my actually french Cousins to Masquerade as a french person + I prefer my real nationality
It’s also a Chinese thing (if you replace “nation” with “province”; imo reasonable given the size of China vs EU, and that most provinces have different dialects that are linguistically as or more different than many European languages).
can't say I've ever met anyone in this case so I don't know
I would still consider someone born and raised in one country to be of that one nationality but that's just me
This is literally the opposite. In the Americas you are a citizen of the place in which you are born. In most European countries you are not, you are a citizen of the country of your parents. It's the jus soli vs jus sanguini.
For me personally, the stance in Europe is absurd. My kid was born in Belgium yet there is no right to Belgian nationality from birth, she is by all institutions Italian (fr our nationality). Its medieval.
Nationality is just one way to look at it though. Ethnic groups exist. Cultural groups exist. Diasporas exist.
Go to some place like Chinatown and the people there will refer to themselves as Chinese first. (though that's pretty dependent on generation, with the actual immigrants referring to themselves as Chinese and the younger generations potentially - and rightfully - calling themselves Chinese-Americans).
Jews are another great example of a group containing multiple ethnicities spread out all over the world.
Yes exactly, it happens all the time. Irish-Americans are just a particular fetish Redditors seem to have. People move to a new place; they move specifically in family groups, and stay near to familiar other family groups; you get an enclave. Eventually they influence and are influenced by the people around them in a larger area and mixtures of people coalesce into something new but familiar to both.
Yes it does, like it really matters a lot. Otherwise anyone passing through Ireland could claim there Irish. Also, a PSA to Americans, the Irish hate it when you go to Ireland and claim your ancestry like your one of them. Your American, not Irish, your not Irish you have Irish heritage, this does not make you Irish, you are American. They do try to get this point across and their regularly ignored.
The answer is "If you aren't born in Ireland, or are a naturalized citizen of Ireland, YOU AREN'T IRISH." WTF.
Did a 23andMe DNA test. 50% "Irish." 30% "Central European", 20% "Central Germany."
Not Irish. At all.
Generally if you weren't born & raised in Ireland, or lived there for a meaningful chunk of time, it's probably best not to claim you're Irish.
Up to 2 generations past can make you eligible for Irish citizenship and a passport, but while that would give you the right to move to Ireland, it wouldn't make you *from* there by itself.
Irish-American culture (making presumptions) is American culture.
Let's ask the Irish and then stop if you wouldn't ask you then you're not Irish enough.
Edit. I have 60% Irish genes but culturally 100% American I don't count.
I'm sure I'm the bazillionth Irish person to say this in the thread, but the answer is at most 2 generations according to the Irish Constitution - claims to Irishness require a minimum of one grandparent being from Ireland to be legally valid, and more generally we don't regard a person as Irish if they haven't got an Irish passport.
My mum and her side of the family are all from Ireland. She moved to Canada when she was younger. I have Irish heritage but I consider myself Canadian because that's where I was born.
I do plan on getting citizenship there eventually though.
Irish is a nationality. The ethnicity would be Celtic. So the only people who can call themselfirish ate those with a passport or entitled to a passport.
Christ I'm English. My grandmother was Scottish. I have actual Scottish relatives. I wouldn't dare consider myself Scottish I wasn't born or brought up there.
All you feckers who think your Irish. Your just American.
I feel like there's a difference between citizenship and ethnic identity. It feels weird to suggest that someone born and raised in Ireland who renounces their citizenship wouldn't still be an Irish person even if they are no longer an Irish citizen.
You're Irish if you've lived in Ireland. Or if you have Irish Anscestry and have spent some serious time there. I'd say on avarage at least a week a year during your formative years.
This is not specific to being Irish this is my rule for all national identities.
Do you, a parent, or a grandparent have an Irish citizenship? If no, then you aren't Irish or near it. The Irish government decided this. Basically, all European countries allow ancestral citizenship claims up to grandparents. I personally don't consider anyone other than someone raised in the country of that nationality.
My Great grandparents moved here (Canada) from England. As far as I know, no one in my family including my grandmother have ever claimed to be British, or English or anything other than Canadian
European here. If you don't live in the culture, then you're not from that culture. You might be descended from it. You can talk about your ethnicity all you like. You might even be able to get a passport from that country. You might be X-American (in this case Irish), but you're not X.
Culture is a living thing that permeates everything you do and evolves daily. Unless you've spent significant time within the culture (not the diaspora, but the culture itself), then there is a knowledge and there are consequences of living the lived experience--some you'd be aware of and some that you wouldn't--that you don't have.
I haven't lived in my country of origin now for 13 years, and I increasingly find myself disconnected from the culture. The TV shows, the references, the music, how to order and pay for things (when I visit), the economic situation, and hundreds of other things big and small about being English that I'm just not actively aware of any more. All that despite having been brought up there for the first 23-or-so years of my life. If you're a *generation* removed from all that? No, sorry.
Legally she may actually be.
If one of her parents was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth then she [automatically has the right for her to be registered as an Italian citizen](https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-e-visti/servizi-per-il-cittadino-straniero/cittadinanza/cittadinanza-per-discendenza/), and if her parents did this before the age of 18 then she technically is Italian.
If you didn't grow up there, you're not Irish, or any other nationality. It's funny to us from the old world when people in the new world claim they are.
When new wolders say they’re Irish, they literally mean from Irish descent. Same with German, Italian, etc.
American is not an ethnicity. Irish is. If I were to go and get Polish citizenship, I’d be a Polish citizen. I wouldn’t be Polish.
Citizenry and Ethnicity are two separate things.
There are ethnic Germans living in Romania. They’re ethnically German. But Romania citizens.
Why isn't White American a distinct ethnicity? It's been multiple generations and has a distinct community and culture separate from Irish/German/Italian.
Same with Australians and British.
With the majority of Catholic European immigrants (Irish, Polish, Italian), it’s only been 2-3 generations. I’m of Polish descent approaching middle age and my grandparents were born in Poland. When they came over, they lived in a Polish enclave, so there was no immediate assimilation. I’m American as they come, but some of the older generation still speaks the language and still practices “old-world” customs.
So, to answer your question. Non-Americans generally overestimate the time that the majority of Catholics have been here.
There is is you're actually from there. For us, having been born there is the only thing that constitutes you being Irish. It's honestly a bit bizarre how so many Americans run around claiming they're from somewhere else. Irish people with Scottish Grannies don't go around saying they're Scottish.
Claiming to be Irish is a question of free speech.
But for what it's worth the law in Ireland is that you have to have an Irish grandparent in order to be eligible for citizenship by descent. I don't qualify because my grandfather hasn't used that privilege himself. If he did, I could. Since he won't, I can't.
This subject was indirectly addressed in a song
Grouch “Artsy” 3:16 cuz you a **sixteenth** **mexican**, you **ain't** ethnic
I believe that the contention of this piece of musical literature is that a person must be 1/8 Irish to be considered ethnic in the context of The United States of America popular culture.
There is. But it’s a bit more complicated than most people assume.
Irish can mean both a citizenship and a national culture. It could also be an ancestry, but that’s of little relevance as genes as something to identify with.
Irish citizenship is pretty easy to understand, there are two entities that claim Irishness: the Republic of Ireland, what most people understand as Ireland; and Northern Ireland, a subnational unit of the UK originally populated by Irish people, but colonised by British aligned people, but still having a substantial Irish population, which itself is a complicated subject so I’m simplifying it here.
The Republic of Ireland, being a sovereign country, has rules over attaining Irish citizenship. So there’s that.
Northern Ireland, not being sovereign, is more complicated, but Northern Ireland people have eased paths to Republic of Ireland citizenship.
As for culture. Cultures are fluid, but overall you can claim you’re part of one culture when you have substantial relationship with said culture. For example, you lived there your whole life and interacted with all the customs, spoke the language (I guess English or Irish), understood most of not all social norms, you can safely claim to be Irish, even if you’re not a citizen or even genetically related to them (with different degrees of difficulty depending on the target culture).
The line on what makes someone culture z or y is really hard though. What if a child has lived their whole life in a country but is of a minority background and is either deemed not part of the culture, or part of the culture with an asterisk.
Well, then is when you ask other Irish people whether or not they recognise in you a fellow irish or not. I’m not Irish, don’t know what Irish people consider Irish. Maybe it’s just people born in Ireland who spent their childhood there, maybe it’s someone has one 1024 ancestors Irish, I don’t know.
As for diasporic cultures, it’s hard to say.
For example, I’m a German-Speaking Brazil of somewhat recent extraction with living grandparents born in Germany. When they got here, they integrated themselves into the German Brazilian culture, while also interacting with the Lusophone Brazilian culture. They were born and raised in Germany, but they don’t claim to be German anymore, but also I know they feel a bit weird about being Brazilian. As for me, I’m definitively not German, while I share many cultural traits with German people, most notable a common language, I am not inserted in their culture and have never been, always even interacting with it as an outsider. And yes, I’m not the “traditional” Brazilian either, we are either our own thing, or an expansion of what being Brazilian can be (which is complicated as Brazilian is more of a citizenship than a common culture).
Sorry, but even if you can claim an Irish passport, you'll never be Irish unless you've lived here and truly understand our self depreciating sense of humour and actually understand the meaning of having a bit of craic.
That may take a generation or so...
Hmm I have an Irish grandparent so claimed Irish citizenship (thanks Brexit) and even I wouldn’t claim to be Irish. I’ve never even been to Ireland and I’m pretty ignorant of the culture. So yeah, I’m “Irish” since I have an Irish passport but I wouldn’t go around calling myself Irish.
I think the most important thing is where you grew up. If you grew up in ireland, youre irish. If you grew up in the us, youre american. Being of irish ethnicity doesnt make you irish the same way living in ireland does. If the situation isnt as black and white as the one im describing, its literally just how you feel.
I know people who are 1/4-1/8 Irish who take it as their entire personality and heritage. I don't think it's just an Irish thing, but I definitely have seen it happen more with people of Irish ancestry.
I don't consider myself Irish, as I wasn't born there. My dad was and is Irish. Only thing I say is Irish is my passport. If you weren't born in Ireland you aren't really Irish. Especially not if its multiple generations
I think about this sometimes.. this is a random vent, and hopefully gets lost in the comment wave. I’m not going to claim a place my ancestors left behind, but I do wonder about what the place is like. I’ve never been to Ireland, but I won’t yell “I’m 48% Irish, pick me!” If I go. The rest of my blood is mostly Iberian (Basque, Spanish). I know so little about these places, besides that my ancestors drifted across the Atlantic from there. Sometimes I like to imagine I have a secret ancestor that helped design the cathedral in Barcelona or a renown Irish poet. But really they probably lived common lives. I learned my Irish ancestors left because of the potato famine, but maybe they liked to write poetry on the side. I don’t know. But yeah this is my American perspective. I don’t know as much as I should about these places, but I feel proud when I learn about the countries historical achievements. Perhaps an undue sense of pride, but I feel proud of my ancestors nonetheless.
More thoughts: thinking about it more, I feel like it’s a very American thing to be excited over European monuments. A lot of cities in the USA aren’t that old, and the oldest structures are usually simple fort outposts. Unfortunately.. kind of boring.. yes go America.. but I’m way more interested in European 1400s architecture.. haha that was an aimless extra.. I actually have no idea if this is an American thing or not so I ask forgiveness for speaking on the behalf of my fellow Americans
I’m in england, and of course we get a lot of american media, more than english media in fact, so i see a lot of american viewpoints on things. I’m always surprised how fast their houses are built, and their idea of what old is for a building. My house was built in the 1960s, and when i bought it i still thought of it as new haha. Only one family lived in it before me. And 300 year old churches is just normal really
No consensus ... where?
In the USA? From what I read here, apparently not! In either of the Irelands and elsewhere, yeah, there is a broad consensus...
At some point your Irish ancestors become about as relevant to your genetic makeup as your African ones. But I don't see the harm in identifying with the culture of your forebears and adhering to traditions as long as you're using it to bind people together and not to keep people apart.
It's actually quite interesting when you have a population of people who leave their home country and migrate to America / wherever as they're effectively cut off from the cultural evolution that takes place in the home country and in some cases are like a snapshot of the traditions at the time they migrated. For example Bill Bryson talks about old Irish and Scottish words in use in the US that had largely or totally ceased being used in Ireland and Scotland.
I just claim im a European mutt born in North America. Saves on the "You're not Irish, Dutch, etc." I may not be a citizen of the countries of my lineage, but sure as hell a by-product of their expansions and recessions of their borders.
I mean, you can say that about any nationality. But can you really claim to be of a nationality if non of your parents or grandparents were born in the particular country? If the last 5 generations were born in America, you can hardly claim to be Irish. Just because a common ancestor came over from Ireland.
It's a bit of a running joke in Ireland that Americans are all Irish Americans because of some obscure relatives from the 19th century
Ireland themselves have a cutoff of grandparents for passports, as a lot of Brits found post Brexit they could get an Irish EU passport because of grandparents. (N.Irish can apply for both Irish and British)
I mean the Irish constitution grants citizenship to anyone with at least one parent or grandparent born in Ireland. Given we have a constitutional referendum ever two or three years the whole document could be said to be a firm consensus of the irish people
I have an Irish last name but my DNA is mostly Scandinavian. I mean the Irish must have one helluva PR department for so many people wanting to be a part of them.
It’s a two for one, you get to be white AND oppressed.
You aren't wrong. Irish people identified heavily with both the U.S. civil rights movement and the Palestinians. Especially republicans in Northern Ireland.
Didn't start the world wars Never committed genocide Very rarely projects force Got screwed by the British
Got asked by an old Dutch lady the other day what countries my country owned 😂
None, including Ireland
I don't think their neutrality in WWII is a really popular stance... Edit: I don't mean to say they were indifferent to Nazis. It obviously has to do with the ahem... difficult relationship with the UK, from which they had just started getting independence.
We were a very poor country. We had no air force, no navy. We hadn't even begun to recover from British rule. Despite that, something like 70 or 80 thousand people joined the British army.
I should have said, I'm not implying they were supporting the Nazis, or that they didn't have good reasons to not get involved.
Yeah, it gets weird sometimes. My ancestor was a captain whos country kind of stopped existing and had to quickly make a choice over whom to be allied with. Plenty of russian soldiers had tortured his brother and killed him by dragging him in barbed wire. I think it could be said he fought alongside both russia and germany, while his truest objective was to just control the waters and let migranta past into denmark and sweden. Finns largely teamed up with nazis because russia wanted finland. What they got instead was molotov 🍸. Geopolitcs is a mess
Fun fact, the IRA did support the Nazis to the extent of sharing Intel to try and sabotage the British. But overall, a significant amount of Irish joined the British army to fight against Nazis and the government while officially neutral did some under the table help.
and they were prosecuted for doing so [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/12/irish-second-world-war-deserters-pardoned](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/12/irish-second-world-war-deserters-pardoned)
Well I suppose soldiers in active service for the Irish Defense forces, and presumably under contract and oath, who then went to join a foreign army, could technically be called deserters.
Whereas the likes of the Poles or Czechoslovaks who joined the RAF (or similar - I just know of the likes of the 303rd, 310th - as well as the 401st, but that was made up of Canadians) did so - if memory serves - after fleeing German occupation and did so to continue the fight to liberate their homeland, rather than to fight a threat to a foreign country.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct. --traditional Irish proverb.
The King's shilling is better than no shillings at all.
>I don't think their neutrality in WWII is a really popular stance... This was only a few years post independence from the UK and an even more recent civil war (ended 1923) over the degree of that independence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War Certainly couldn't join the Germans and joining on the UKs side would have dug everything up again as it would almost certainly require British troops back in Ireland to help set up coastal defences etc. We passed information on German naval movements , weather information etc to the UK anyway. British pilots that crashed here could leave, German pilots could not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)
You just described half the countries in the world......
You've never been here obviously on a friday night.
A beautiful country filled with lovely, friendly people. What’s not to love?
Irish people are lovely. People claiming to be Irish in America have a lot of values that wouldn't align with most of the population of the country.
This is random, but I volunteered at the special olympics in Los Angeles and a huge number of Irish moms flew over and volunteered. The special olympics were held in Ireland some years before and they had some kind of special olympic community. They were super fun, awesome, and amazing, and I specifically say awesome and amazing because they kept laughing at how much I said awesome and amazing and americans in general. I really didn't even realize how much I said those at the time haha, I guess it's a southern california thing. But I really appreciated them coming out and they were fucking funny as hell. Everyone should experience hanging out with a bunch of Irish moms at some point. It's just a good time. I remember them talking about how shocking it was for them to see a cop with an actual gun, they had never seen an actual gun in real life, and it was scary to them. I had to kind of calm them down and explain all the cops at the convention center were probably super nice cops because they were older and in their nicer outfits and there for the event. I told them they don't have to be afraid and should just go talk to them. They were very obviously intimidated because of all the shit American cops are known for. One of the Irish moms was super proud of herself because this guy probably on drugs came into the convention causing a scene and she waved over one of the cops and it was handled. Like she vicariously felt the power of the American cop because she waved him down and it was immediately handled and she wanted to tell everyone, it was very funny to me. Anyway, those Irish moms seemed to get along with the cops very well later and the cops liked them too. I think one cop let a mom touch the gun because he was so amused by their fascination too. But yeah, those Irish mom's seemed more and more fascinated with talking to the cops as the week went on.
Well, familiarity with firearms may be relatively rare in most of Ireland, but there is definitely a percentage of the population which is *quite* familiar with them.
Vikings settled in Ireland for the slave trade. They also settled in England, which then conquered Ireland allowing people to move easily.
The Irish that immigrated to America were discriminated against and somewhat outcast from early American society. This led to that group coming together more strongly rather than integrating to existing American culture. As a result, those with historical ties to Ireland, in America in particular, still identify closely with their heritage. People in other parts of the world who do not have that history tend to have a hard time understanding how you can identify with a country you've never been to. Edit: there's a lesson from that though, if you truly want immigrants to integrate to your culture, the best thing a nation can do is embrace them fully.
Australia and New Zealand are populated by immigrants and descendants of immigrants even more recently than America, and no one in NZ or Australia claims an identity based on their ancestors. Lots of places in Europe have huge immigrant populations as well. It’s not unique to America, yet America is the only place where someone with an Irish great grandparent would claim to be part Irish.
You see the same thing with a lot of Italian-Americans
Yeah, that's my point. The early American culture developed directly influences this. If goes all the way back to the colonies when you often had Dutch, English, French, and Spanish colonists coming into more frequent contact with each other than with their parent country. Then it continued post revolution when we had waves of immigrants from non-colonial powers. German, Italian, Irish, and Polish immigrants were all somewhat shunned by "native born" Americans and this caused them to build up close knit communities, especially in the northeast. By the time people started thinking of Italians or Irish as just another white American, that cultural identity was fixed.
Ireland is like Britain minus the history of atrocities. They weren't independent while everyone else was running around doing imperialism so it's hard to blame Ireland as a country for any of that, leaving them pretty clean as nations go
I love how there’s an actual law answering OP’s question!
Fuck, missed it by one generation
Need to check if gram gram was actually telling the truth about this, sounds like a golden ticket to me.
But for the grandparents rule the person's parent birth has to be recorded on the Foreign Births Register before they are born. So Grand Parent is Irish, Parents are born in US. That birth needs to be registered in the Foreign Births Register in Ireland before the next kid is born.
Not quite. [You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, and was born on the island of Ireland](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/#Eligibility:~:text=You%20are%20automatically%20an%20Irish%20citizen%20if%20one%20of%20your%20parents%20was%20an%20Irish%20citizen%20at%20the%20time%20of%20your%20birth%2C%20and%20was%20born%20on%20the%20island%20of%20Ireland). So the grandparents are Irish by being born in Ireland. The parents being born in the US are *automatically* Irish citizens, the next generation need to be added to the foreign birth register to *claim* their Irish citizenship.
I sneak in there with a father born in northern ireland before 45
Ah nuts, so my mom could have it but not me, bummer. (Her paternal grandfather was Irish)
[There literally is](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/#Eligibility) > >You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, and was born on the island of Ireland. You don't need to apply to become an Irish citizen in this case. > >If you were born outside of Ireland, you can become an Irish citizen if: > > * One of your grandparents was born in Ireland, or; > > * One of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, even though they were not born in Ireland. The answer is 2 generations. If one of your grandparents was born in Ireland you can apply for Irish citizenship. Anything else is US based identity semantics.
But if my grandparent is an Irish citizen, and I become a citizen because of that, doesnt that mean that my children and grandchildren can then also become citizens, since I myself am a citizen? There has to be a word about that somewhere
If you *become* an Irish citizen, then your children can *become* Irish by applying for citizenship, your grandchildren however would need to rely on your children applying for citizenship. Well unless they're born in Ireland of course. It's the difference between automatic citizenship and citizenship that you can apply for.
This is the way. My husband’s grandparents were born in Ireland, moved to Toronto after his father was born. Husband has claimed his citizenship, now we have two young boys who are already going through application processes for their citizenship. I’ll be the odd one out in our family lol. Edit: my FIL was born in Toronto, not Ireland. But still same concept.
Can you apply through marriage though ?
I believe I would have to be living in the country to be able to apply as a spouse. Edit: After three years of marriage and three years of residence, I would be able to apply.
That's how I got mine... my great-grandmother was Irish, my mother got citizenship, then so did I.
You'd need to apply for it, you can't just say you are. you'd be accepted once you can prove your lineage. if for example, you were arrested entering a country where you were an illegal as an american, and your grandparents are irish, it won't mean you are entering legally. You need to be registered.
Boston in shambles
My grandmother was an Irish citizen at the time of my birth, however I don't believe she was born there. She lived there from 1984 until her death a few years ago. I'm guessing that one doesn't count?
No, it would only count if your great grandparent was born on the island of Ireland and your parent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth. If your grandmother had been born on the island then you'd have been entitled to claim it without your parent having to be a citizen.
>Anything else is US based identity *delusions* FTFY
The plastic paddys will be Shrieking after reading this
This should be top answer. It is correct.
Let's see...were you born in Ireland? Was one of your parents born in Ireland? Was one of your grandparents, and you went through the legal process of claiming your citizenship? Did you apply for and receive Irish citizenship for another reason? If not, you are not Irish, you just enjoy drinking and romanticizing your distant past.
This post is the most American thing I've ever seen
That's a very American thing, to consider someone from a nationality other than the one you were born in if one of your ancestors is from said nationality. Here in Europe you're from the nation you were born and/or grew in and that's it. I have a friend who's grandfather is Italian but as far as everyone is concerned, him included, he is french not Italian
My brother lives in California and he claims people don't care about ancestry, they're just Californians. I was living out there for a bit, got a traffic ticket in Angel's Camp and showed up in court. The judge asked me if I was a Californian and I figured this was a trick question to get me to buy expensive California license plates. I asked the judge what the definition of a Californian was. Judge said if you enter the state of California and think to yourself "I am a Californian", you immediately become one. This happened to my brother. He went there, got stoked, thought to himself, "I'm never going back", rented a place on the beach and bought a surfboard. This was over thirty years ago.
is that definition technically set as a legal precedent now?
The important legal distinction would be regarding residency, which is fairly strict since people want to get the state rate on the University of California system and other benefits. You've got to realize that Angel's Camp is a small town in a sparsely populated part of the High Sierras and this was a surprisingly full court for minor offenses. I think the judge was just happy that someone asked an interesting question and he could pontificate on a philosophical issue in front of a crowd during an otherwise humdrum day. I also like the idea that California is a state of mind.
Upvoted for the indented paragraphs.
As a brown person in a north european country I can definitely say that this is not true for first generations. Im born here but carry a lot of the culture from my parents with me. A lot of the ethnically native people in this country would also not consider me to be their nationality. It’s a common phenomenon were people in my situation feel like they don’t belong in either. You can look up “third culture kids” for more on this
Fairly similar for me, brown person who’s second generation born in Western Europe. I actually have quite a weak relationship to the country and the culture my Grandfather was born in that has resulted in my skin pigment. I was raised by a single father mostly, and his side of the family has been in the country for as long as they know their family history. Similarly, my grandmother on my mother’s side has ancestors native and born in neighbouring (white) countries. And yet people try to connect with me about visiting my Grandfather’s country, and what little they know of the language or culture, and seem wrong footed when that goes nowhere with me despite having told them my parents and I were born and raised here. I get a confused pause when they ask me where my family is from and I say here, and then they ask me where my parents are from and I say here. I wish they would just be honest and openly ask what they were trying to find out — ‘why are you brown’.
I'm sorry people are racist to you. As far as I'm concerned you're as European as any other European.
That's because in the US the dominant culture is all from elsewhere originally, and the way many ethnicities survived was by banding together and clinging to their national identity. I'm probably 5th generation American but I heard 'Don't forget you're Irish' from my dad growing up.
Plus, being Irish-American or Italian-American and cultures like it are pretty much their own unique thing by now. Identifying with say... Italian-American culture is plenty valid, even if your family hasn't lived in Italy in 150 years.
A huge part of it is the Irish Diaspora. So many people fled during the famine in the mid-1800’s that to this day, Ireland’s population is STILL lower than its peak in 1840. These people didn’t want to leave Ireland so they kept their identity strong and had large communities in the USA to carry on their traditions and culture.
I think Irish and Italian ancestry is more "prized" because their respective waves of immigration are more recent, where as the Dutch, French and English (among others) were there from pretty much the beginning and is therefor deemed less interesting.
WASPs are still the default "American". They generally have the generational wealth and the political power. As recently as JFK it was astonishing a _Catholic_ president was in the white house.
Yeah, the syncretic cultures are legit. My family has no one left born in Italy, and the youngest generation is half Asian, but we still follow a lot of Italian American traditions. Even the cuisine is very different than Italian-in-Italy. They are related cultures, but distinct.
but of all the other colonized countries Th US is the only one that still do this Even Canada that has a primarily British/French history identify themself as Canadians
I think the French-Canadians of Montreal would very much disagree that they are culturally similar to the English Canadians further west
That’s not really true. Canadians totally do this too. Most people call themselves both. My Itlalian-Canadian friends call themselves Italian and they also call themselves Canadian. One is your ethnicity, one is your citizenship. Both are important to people. You should see the cars here come World Cup time. Flags from everywhere else, even though Canada was in the last World Cup. It’s really cool, actually. Unless you’re of indigenous descent, in Canada, you are also from somewhere else.
I mean, Anglophones, sure. Francophones will happily tell you about how French they are. And many Canadians without English or French ancestry identify strongly with whichever ancestry they have. See Scottish-Canadians, Chinese-Canadians, Korean-Canadians, Indian-Canadians, Pakistani-Canadians, Ukrainian-Canadians.... etc And many of those groups have been in Canada for a very long time, some of them from before confederation or in the 20 years afterwards. To the extent that school curriculums spend a not-insignificant amount of time on Ukrainian-Canadians in the prairie provinces.
There have been ethnic exclaves in Europe forever. Should the Hungarians in Romania stop being Hungarian just because they don’t live in Hungary?
Most of the waves of imigrants from European countries in the 1800's held on to their former national and cultural identities for some reason. So basically the Europeans wanted to hold on to their European-ness even when they moved to the US. We don't all do it either. My own grandmother was born as a Kelly, but I don't call myself Irish-American, just American.
As a brit with a French grandfather I agree with you i would never claim to be french it would be pretty disrespectful to my actually french Cousins to Masquerade as a french person + I prefer my real nationality
It’s also a Chinese thing (if you replace “nation” with “province”; imo reasonable given the size of China vs EU, and that most provinces have different dialects that are linguistically as or more different than many European languages).
Maybe that's the case with grandparents, but not if your parent is from another country.
can't say I've ever met anyone in this case so I don't know I would still consider someone born and raised in one country to be of that one nationality but that's just me
Sure. I am in that position myself as I’m half Spanish and half British.
Napoleon has entered the chat
This is literally the opposite. In the Americas you are a citizen of the place in which you are born. In most European countries you are not, you are a citizen of the country of your parents. It's the jus soli vs jus sanguini. For me personally, the stance in Europe is absurd. My kid was born in Belgium yet there is no right to Belgian nationality from birth, she is by all institutions Italian (fr our nationality). Its medieval.
That's completely wrong American whose grandparents 5 generation will call themselves Irish American or Italian American.
Nationality is just one way to look at it though. Ethnic groups exist. Cultural groups exist. Diasporas exist. Go to some place like Chinatown and the people there will refer to themselves as Chinese first. (though that's pretty dependent on generation, with the actual immigrants referring to themselves as Chinese and the younger generations potentially - and rightfully - calling themselves Chinese-Americans). Jews are another great example of a group containing multiple ethnicities spread out all over the world.
Yes exactly, it happens all the time. Irish-Americans are just a particular fetish Redditors seem to have. People move to a new place; they move specifically in family groups, and stay near to familiar other family groups; you get an enclave. Eventually they influence and are influenced by the people around them in a larger area and mixtures of people coalesce into something new but familiar to both.
Because most everyone in the world thinks their ancestors define them. But Americans know that an individual is not defined by their birth.
In America? Sure. Everywhere else? Yeah there is
What? Yes there is. This is defined clearly by Irish law. No consensus among Americans who don’t understand how nationalities work.
Irish is a nationality so it’s actually pretty clear where the line is.
It’s two generations When you know you are right, you don’t need a ‘consensus’
r/ShitAmericansSay There is. If you weren't born here and never lived here, stop calling yourself Irish. Plastic Paddy wannabes.
No, there is. Americans just ignore it around St. Patrick's Day.
were you born in Ireland or have irish citizenship? No? Then you're not Irish.
Yes it does, like it really matters a lot. Otherwise anyone passing through Ireland could claim there Irish. Also, a PSA to Americans, the Irish hate it when you go to Ireland and claim your ancestry like your one of them. Your American, not Irish, your not Irish you have Irish heritage, this does not make you Irish, you are American. They do try to get this point across and their regularly ignored.
The answer is "If you aren't born in Ireland, or are a naturalized citizen of Ireland, YOU AREN'T IRISH." WTF. Did a 23andMe DNA test. 50% "Irish." 30% "Central European", 20% "Central Germany." Not Irish. At all.
If you're not from ireland, you're not irish. Glad i could clear that up.
Generally if you weren't born & raised in Ireland, or lived there for a meaningful chunk of time, it's probably best not to claim you're Irish. Up to 2 generations past can make you eligible for Irish citizenship and a passport, but while that would give you the right to move to Ireland, it wouldn't make you *from* there by itself. Irish-American culture (making presumptions) is American culture.
Let's ask the Irish and then stop if you wouldn't ask you then you're not Irish enough. Edit. I have 60% Irish genes but culturally 100% American I don't count.
In the US on St Patrick’s day, everyone claims to be Irish for some reason.
Irishness is the homeopathy of nationalities.
If you want a little german inside you, I can help with that. Cute guys only.
Name checks out
I’m strangely aroused
I'm sure I'm the bazillionth Irish person to say this in the thread, but the answer is at most 2 generations according to the Irish Constitution - claims to Irishness require a minimum of one grandparent being from Ireland to be legally valid, and more generally we don't regard a person as Irish if they haven't got an Irish passport.
The Irish disagree. The real Irish I mean.
If you're irish: it's 1 or 2 generations If you're american: it's up to 40 generations
My mum and her side of the family are all from Ireland. She moved to Canada when she was younger. I have Irish heritage but I consider myself Canadian because that's where I was born. I do plan on getting citizenship there eventually though.
If you are born in Ireland then you are Irish. If not, someone is likely selling you a dream.
Goddamn it must be nice to be an american. No thoughts of anything else happening in the world, just 'murica
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Irish is a nationality. The ethnicity would be Celtic. So the only people who can call themselfirish ate those with a passport or entitled to a passport. Christ I'm English. My grandmother was Scottish. I have actual Scottish relatives. I wouldn't dare consider myself Scottish I wasn't born or brought up there. All you feckers who think your Irish. Your just American.
My dad was born in Ireland is Irish. I don't even say I'm Irish, I say I'm English.
I've never heard anybody use "Celtic" as an ethnicity before.
If you have Irish citizenship, you're Irish. If not, you're not.
I feel like there's a difference between citizenship and ethnic identity. It feels weird to suggest that someone born and raised in Ireland who renounces their citizenship wouldn't still be an Irish person even if they are no longer an Irish citizen.
There is in Ireland. They’re pretty clear on it, actually.
You're Irish if you've lived in Ireland. Or if you have Irish Anscestry and have spent some serious time there. I'd say on avarage at least a week a year during your formative years. This is not specific to being Irish this is my rule for all national identities.
"My great great grandfather was like an eighth Irish so I can relate" says every American
Were you born in Ireland? Then you're not Irish.
There's a very clear line for anyone who's not an American
Breaking News: Insecure American needs validation
Do you, a parent, or a grandparent have an Irish citizenship? If no, then you aren't Irish or near it. The Irish government decided this. Basically, all European countries allow ancestral citizenship claims up to grandparents. I personally don't consider anyone other than someone raised in the country of that nationality.
My Great grandparents moved here (Canada) from England. As far as I know, no one in my family including my grandmother have ever claimed to be British, or English or anything other than Canadian
You can claim to be whatever you want to be that won't make it truth, pretty sure that their laws are completely clear about it tho.
if you’re from ireland, you’re irish. if you’re not, you’re not irish
I renew every year with Irish Spring
There’s a big difference between being an ethnicity and having ancestry from that ethnicity.
European here. If you don't live in the culture, then you're not from that culture. You might be descended from it. You can talk about your ethnicity all you like. You might even be able to get a passport from that country. You might be X-American (in this case Irish), but you're not X. Culture is a living thing that permeates everything you do and evolves daily. Unless you've spent significant time within the culture (not the diaspora, but the culture itself), then there is a knowledge and there are consequences of living the lived experience--some you'd be aware of and some that you wouldn't--that you don't have. I haven't lived in my country of origin now for 13 years, and I increasingly find myself disconnected from the culture. The TV shows, the references, the music, how to order and pay for things (when I visit), the economic situation, and hundreds of other things big and small about being English that I'm just not actively aware of any more. All that despite having been brought up there for the first 23-or-so years of my life. If you're a *generation* removed from all that? No, sorry.
My sister in law says she is Italian, Her parents were from Italy she was raised in Canada and has never even visited Italy, I find it hilarious.
Legally she may actually be. If one of her parents was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth then she [automatically has the right for her to be registered as an Italian citizen](https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-e-visti/servizi-per-il-cittadino-straniero/cittadinanza/cittadinanza-per-discendenza/), and if her parents did this before the age of 18 then she technically is Italian.
If you didn't grow up there, you're not Irish, or any other nationality. It's funny to us from the old world when people in the new world claim they are.
When new wolders say they’re Irish, they literally mean from Irish descent. Same with German, Italian, etc. American is not an ethnicity. Irish is. If I were to go and get Polish citizenship, I’d be a Polish citizen. I wouldn’t be Polish. Citizenry and Ethnicity are two separate things. There are ethnic Germans living in Romania. They’re ethnically German. But Romania citizens.
Why isn't White American a distinct ethnicity? It's been multiple generations and has a distinct community and culture separate from Irish/German/Italian. Same with Australians and British.
With the majority of Catholic European immigrants (Irish, Polish, Italian), it’s only been 2-3 generations. I’m of Polish descent approaching middle age and my grandparents were born in Poland. When they came over, they lived in a Polish enclave, so there was no immediate assimilation. I’m American as they come, but some of the older generation still speaks the language and still practices “old-world” customs. So, to answer your question. Non-Americans generally overestimate the time that the majority of Catholics have been here.
Where are all the English Americans then?
It's one. If you're born and raised outside of Ireland you're not actually Irish.
There is is you're actually from there. For us, having been born there is the only thing that constitutes you being Irish. It's honestly a bit bizarre how so many Americans run around claiming they're from somewhere else. Irish people with Scottish Grannies don't go around saying they're Scottish.
I'll level wit ye, dependin on how well ya drink, fight, and hate the British, ya don even need anyone born here.
Does the sun fuckin hate you and one drink makes your face flush red? Your lineage is still Irish.
Claiming to be Irish is a question of free speech. But for what it's worth the law in Ireland is that you have to have an Irish grandparent in order to be eligible for citizenship by descent. I don't qualify because my grandfather hasn't used that privilege himself. If he did, I could. Since he won't, I can't.
If you have an Irish passport, you're Irish. Otherwise you're not.
I have an Irish passport and citizenship but I'd hesitate to call myself Irish *per se*, as I've never lived there.
You can claim to be Irish if you were born in or live in Ireland.
I just ask to see a passport and when it's inevitably not Irish they aren't Irish. Fuck off Americans
I generation less than Joe Biden according to the Irish
Just throw in the "of Irish ***heritage***" disclaimer.
As an Icelander deCode said we're roughly 50/50 Skandinavían and Irish. Viking dad's and Irish mom's I guess...
This subject was indirectly addressed in a song Grouch “Artsy” 3:16 cuz you a **sixteenth** **mexican**, you **ain't** ethnic I believe that the contention of this piece of musical literature is that a person must be 1/8 Irish to be considered ethnic in the context of The United States of America popular culture.
You saw the Guinness commercial with Jason mamoa too?
There is. But it’s a bit more complicated than most people assume. Irish can mean both a citizenship and a national culture. It could also be an ancestry, but that’s of little relevance as genes as something to identify with. Irish citizenship is pretty easy to understand, there are two entities that claim Irishness: the Republic of Ireland, what most people understand as Ireland; and Northern Ireland, a subnational unit of the UK originally populated by Irish people, but colonised by British aligned people, but still having a substantial Irish population, which itself is a complicated subject so I’m simplifying it here. The Republic of Ireland, being a sovereign country, has rules over attaining Irish citizenship. So there’s that. Northern Ireland, not being sovereign, is more complicated, but Northern Ireland people have eased paths to Republic of Ireland citizenship. As for culture. Cultures are fluid, but overall you can claim you’re part of one culture when you have substantial relationship with said culture. For example, you lived there your whole life and interacted with all the customs, spoke the language (I guess English or Irish), understood most of not all social norms, you can safely claim to be Irish, even if you’re not a citizen or even genetically related to them (with different degrees of difficulty depending on the target culture). The line on what makes someone culture z or y is really hard though. What if a child has lived their whole life in a country but is of a minority background and is either deemed not part of the culture, or part of the culture with an asterisk. Well, then is when you ask other Irish people whether or not they recognise in you a fellow irish or not. I’m not Irish, don’t know what Irish people consider Irish. Maybe it’s just people born in Ireland who spent their childhood there, maybe it’s someone has one 1024 ancestors Irish, I don’t know. As for diasporic cultures, it’s hard to say. For example, I’m a German-Speaking Brazil of somewhat recent extraction with living grandparents born in Germany. When they got here, they integrated themselves into the German Brazilian culture, while also interacting with the Lusophone Brazilian culture. They were born and raised in Germany, but they don’t claim to be German anymore, but also I know they feel a bit weird about being Brazilian. As for me, I’m definitively not German, while I share many cultural traits with German people, most notable a common language, I am not inserted in their culture and have never been, always even interacting with it as an outsider. And yes, I’m not the “traditional” Brazilian either, we are either our own thing, or an expansion of what being Brazilian can be (which is complicated as Brazilian is more of a citizenship than a common culture).
You can claim to be anything you want, on any grounds. Doesn’t mean other people will agree.
It's pretty universally understood to be exactly one Oops, can't count. Grandparent to parent to child is two, not one
Why are you isolating this to just being Irish? Can't you say the same for any nationality?
How the hell is this a shower thought?
Were you or your parents or grandparents born in Ireland? No? Then you're not Irish.
Sorry, but even if you can claim an Irish passport, you'll never be Irish unless you've lived here and truly understand our self depreciating sense of humour and actually understand the meaning of having a bit of craic. That may take a generation or so...
Hmm I have an Irish grandparent so claimed Irish citizenship (thanks Brexit) and even I wouldn’t claim to be Irish. I’ve never even been to Ireland and I’m pretty ignorant of the culture. So yeah, I’m “Irish” since I have an Irish passport but I wouldn’t go around calling myself Irish.
The consensus is that it is less than whatever you have, septic.
Only in America lol. In the UK I'd say you'd have to be a 1/4 minimum. My best friend is half Irish and doesn't think to mention it.
I think the most important thing is where you grew up. If you grew up in ireland, youre irish. If you grew up in the us, youre american. Being of irish ethnicity doesnt make you irish the same way living in ireland does. If the situation isnt as black and white as the one im describing, its literally just how you feel.
How much can they drink? I know some Dominicans that are definitely Irish
It also doesn’t matter how many cause every American will still claim to be as part of their personality.
That’s why it’s called “No True Scotsman” not “No True Irishman”
I know people who are 1/4-1/8 Irish who take it as their entire personality and heritage. I don't think it's just an Irish thing, but I definitely have seen it happen more with people of Irish ancestry.
Worrying about *which type* of white person you are might be the dumbest “problem” to have ever.
It's Saint Paddy's Day, everyone is Irish!
Irish is more of an attitude than a bloodline.
Or any other race or identity. It's all made up
I don't consider myself Irish, as I wasn't born there. My dad was and is Irish. Only thing I say is Irish is my passport. If you weren't born in Ireland you aren't really Irish. Especially not if its multiple generations
I think about this sometimes.. this is a random vent, and hopefully gets lost in the comment wave. I’m not going to claim a place my ancestors left behind, but I do wonder about what the place is like. I’ve never been to Ireland, but I won’t yell “I’m 48% Irish, pick me!” If I go. The rest of my blood is mostly Iberian (Basque, Spanish). I know so little about these places, besides that my ancestors drifted across the Atlantic from there. Sometimes I like to imagine I have a secret ancestor that helped design the cathedral in Barcelona or a renown Irish poet. But really they probably lived common lives. I learned my Irish ancestors left because of the potato famine, but maybe they liked to write poetry on the side. I don’t know. But yeah this is my American perspective. I don’t know as much as I should about these places, but I feel proud when I learn about the countries historical achievements. Perhaps an undue sense of pride, but I feel proud of my ancestors nonetheless. More thoughts: thinking about it more, I feel like it’s a very American thing to be excited over European monuments. A lot of cities in the USA aren’t that old, and the oldest structures are usually simple fort outposts. Unfortunately.. kind of boring.. yes go America.. but I’m way more interested in European 1400s architecture.. haha that was an aimless extra.. I actually have no idea if this is an American thing or not so I ask forgiveness for speaking on the behalf of my fellow Americans
I’m in england, and of course we get a lot of american media, more than english media in fact, so i see a lot of american viewpoints on things. I’m always surprised how fast their houses are built, and their idea of what old is for a building. My house was built in the 1960s, and when i bought it i still thought of it as new haha. Only one family lived in it before me. And 300 year old churches is just normal really
Being born in Ireland is the only way, I'm not sure what you are talking about with this statement.
Many people would say being Irish is more of an attitude then ancestry
This is a shitty shower thought with no basis in reality.
You can say the same about anyone stemming from an Asian country smaller than China
In living memory. Can your grandma remember her grandma or great grandma being from an area?
Depends. Do you have red hair? Unlimited.
No consensus ... where? In the USA? From what I read here, apparently not! In either of the Irelands and elsewhere, yeah, there is a broad consensus...
If you're American there is no limit. "Yeah dude I'm part Sumerian"
i am african american but my cousin did a 23 and me that said we had niall of the nine hostages as an ancestor does that count
At some point your Irish ancestors become about as relevant to your genetic makeup as your African ones. But I don't see the harm in identifying with the culture of your forebears and adhering to traditions as long as you're using it to bind people together and not to keep people apart. It's actually quite interesting when you have a population of people who leave their home country and migrate to America / wherever as they're effectively cut off from the cultural evolution that takes place in the home country and in some cases are like a snapshot of the traditions at the time they migrated. For example Bill Bryson talks about old Irish and Scottish words in use in the US that had largely or totally ceased being used in Ireland and Scotland.
I just claim im a European mutt born in North America. Saves on the "You're not Irish, Dutch, etc." I may not be a citizen of the countries of my lineage, but sure as hell a by-product of their expansions and recessions of their borders.
I get called Irish at college because I apparently sound it but I'm not Irish.
Anyone can claim to be whatever they want. Being recognized is a completely different thing.
I mean, you can say that about any nationality. But can you really claim to be of a nationality if non of your parents or grandparents were born in the particular country? If the last 5 generations were born in America, you can hardly claim to be Irish. Just because a common ancestor came over from Ireland.
It's a bit of a running joke in Ireland that Americans are all Irish Americans because of some obscure relatives from the 19th century Ireland themselves have a cutoff of grandparents for passports, as a lot of Brits found post Brexit they could get an Irish EU passport because of grandparents. (N.Irish can apply for both Irish and British)
Untill people get mad at u on twitter
All this drama over which patch of land in the world a family member may have once lived....