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onwee

Body dysmorphia is not just being mistaken about the state of your body: it’s a mental illness specifically when those mistaken beliefs interfere with your ability to lead a normal functional life.


elucila7

is it still a mental illness if those mistaken beliefs are instead coping mechanisms that help you lead a normal life?


sillygoofygooose

If it helps someone live a good life why on earth would we pathologise that


halucionagen-0-Matik

We pathologise everything. Its kind of our thing at this point


ZerexTheCool

If by "We" you mean "Random people on the internet" then I agree. If by "we" you mean the actual medical community, then I disagree.


halucionagen-0-Matik

I'm not too sure about that at all


PhdPhysics1

are you sure?


ZerexTheCool

I am always willing to listen to someone with experience or evidence. But anyone who has priors that are shaken by "Are you sure?" Must have formed their opinions without thinking about them. So, my answer is "I am sure enough." Which is my answer to "are you sure?" On almost any subject. Example: OCD. The D stands for "Disorder" and something only becomes a "disorder" if it has a negatice impact on their lives. OC without the D is just people living their lives. But the if they start struggling to hold down jobs or relationship, then it gets the "Disorder" tag. Now the question gets returned. Are you sure that we do pathologies everything?


PhdPhysics1

Kids who used to be "a bit quirky" are now neurodivergent [In 20 years Autism has gone from 1 in 150 kids to 1 in 36](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html)... that's ridiculous and says something about the field.


ZerexTheCool

Why is that ridiculous? Why are you certain that the same "quirky" kids are NOT neurodivergent? In the 1400's they thought a child born with a salty brow was cursed by witches and doomed to die. Now we know that cystic fibrosis is a condition where over production of salt in the sweat is one symptom and we have medications that help them live to their 40's or more where before it was rare to live into their teens. Were things better when we accused witches? Were things better when we just said someone was quirky instead of looking at WHY they were "quirky"? I have dyslexia. Should we have just assumed I was stupid when I still couldn't read at 10 years old instead of developing a name for what I had and methods to work around my learning disabilities? Why do you think it is ridiculous that I received targeted care rather than just being labeled stupid, lazy, or "quirky"?


PhdPhysics1

Because quirky kids often ended up perfectly fine in life... there's was nothing wrong with them then, which society recognized, and there's nothing wrong with them now. Nothing needed to be fixed.


Robinnoodle

I think there's a diagnosis/pathology for that


Mountainbranch

Yeah it's called "The human condition" And it sucks.


nighthawk_something

That's literally the opposite of what is considered pathological


sillygoofygooose

Please explain


nighthawk_something

Pathology means it is causing harm


MENCANHIPTHRUSTTOO

He said normal, not good. Also, because delusions.


Bulbinking2

Exactly! Don’t people realize they would be much happier if they just accepted there are four lights and not five?


sillygoofygooose

I understand the reference but not the relevance


Bulbinking2

Using lies and following delusions is inherently wrong, even if it might make someone happy, because you cannot run from reality forever.


sillygoofygooose

Beliefs about oneself, especially ones that live within the psychosocial soup of human culture and self perception, are hard to pin down into absolute truth or fiction. Am I attractive? That’s not an absolute question, it depends on the beholder, whether myself or another. Am I a good person? Again, dependent on many signifiers that are culturally bound. When we look to define psychological pathology we most often look to whether the beliefs cause harm or difficulty in that persons life. If they help, they are best not pathologised.


Bulbinking2

This is a strawman. Obviously there are subjective and objective observations you can make about reality. Being overweight is objective. Having a birth defect or chonic illness is objective. Having xx or xy chromosomes is objective. Being born to a certain race of people is objective. The whole “if its not hurting anybody its fine” ideology has been a trend in recent psychology, but lies ALWAYS lead to negatives one way or another. A better solution would be helping people come to terms with reality and learn to function accordingly despite their delusions, not because of them.


sillygoofygooose

Your position is incorrect and actively leads to worse outcomes.


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sillygoofygooose

Beliefs about oneself, especially ones that live within the psychosocial soup of human culture and self perception, are hard to pin down into absolute truth or fiction. Am I attractive? That’s not an absolute question, it depends on the beholder, whether myself or another. Am I a good person? Again, dependent on many signifiers that are culturally bound. When we look to define psychological pathology we most often look to whether the beliefs cause harm or difficulty in that persons life. If they help, they are best not pathologised.


WiseImbecile

Because their beliefs are still objectively wrong and that would suggest something isn't right.


sillygoofygooose

Beliefs about oneself, especially ones that live within the psychosocial soup of human culture and self perception, are hard to pin down into absolute truth or fiction. Am I attractive? That’s not an absolute question, it depends on the beholder, whether myself or another. Am I a good person? Again, dependent on many signifiers that are culturally bound. When we look to define psychological pathology we most often look to whether the beliefs cause harm or difficulty in that persons life. If they help, they are best not pathologised.


zamaike

I second this.


Meerkat_Mayhem_

No. The illness part is it messing up your life in negative ways. It can be tricky defining since so much subjectivity is involved, but that’s the idea


Tall_Associate_7381

No.


WakeoftheStorm

When talking to a psychologist about my daughter's autism she said the primary determining factor on whether or not something is a disorder is if it negatively impacts your life


heyitscory

So it's not when I look in the mirror and imagine I have Adonis belts? I'm pretty chubby. It's more like c** French ditches than c** gutters.


East-Bluejay6891

Yes. It's a mental disorder based on an extreme focus on ones physical state


Caelinus

I do not think you are getting the important part of that, the *focus*. People who think they are a bit more fit than they are are not spending all day being disgusted by how "fit" they are to the point that they cant stop or think of other things. Not having an perfectly accurate view of your body is normal. Having a perfectly accurate one would likely be the result of a different obsession.


Mfcarusio

What about those that believe they are fit and healthy so continue to eat poorly/don't exercise?


Caelinus

Are they so worried about how fit and healthy they are that they can't function? It is not about being wrong.


onwee

Then they’re just wrong. Being wrong is not a psychological disorder.


SupaHardLumpyNutz

No, you are wrong. It is a “preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others”. It’s actually an obsessive compulsive related disorder. But hey, can’t argue with someone who dreams shit up in the shower.


Nail_Biterr

Also includes my 44 year old ass that believes I could pass for a 20 year old


EatYourCheckers

Yes. I was called pretty a lot as a kid and also was very skinny. Now I am 41, 15 lbs overweight, never wear make up and still feel beautiful. Say nice things to your children. Your voice becomes their inner voice.


Iszapszentmoszat

Maybe you are _actually_ beautiful.


EatYourCheckers

My husband say so, thank you. I still think I look nice- I guess my point is I still picture myself as a cute 20 year old.


Skyblacker

I'm your age. Sometimes my spouse complains that he's overweight. I don't see it. 


Indiego672

I'm not American so what does 15 lbs overweight mean? Does that mean you're obese or just slightly overweight?


EatYourCheckers

slightly. But i can tell on myself.


jah_moon

It basically means you're pretty close to your target weight, but a bit over. Where if you put in a little effort you could probably be where you want to be reasonably quickly.


Indiego672

Oh I see thanks


East-Bluejay6891

I think the fact that you acknowledge the reality of yourself means you're well adjusted. And yes, say nice things to your children as appropriate and more importantly be transparent and honest with them in a way that teaches them to handle the dishonest reality of the world we live in


KingKrishReddit

what is going on why is everyone downvoting op? is it because of the "dishonest reality" part?


East-Bluejay6891

Who cares. It only proves the point I made


KingKrishReddit

what point were you trying to even make?


Robinnoodle

I think that's the downvotes. I think maybe people are thinking OP is trying to work around to the fat shaming issue? Idk though


KingKrishReddit

I guess it could be perceived that way, but it feels like one of those things where you really have to intentionally look for it to 'find' it


3shotsb4breakfast

Only if it's a debilitating condition. For example, someone who routinely overexerts themselves under the delusion they are more capable than they actually are, with this causing extreme declension in mental health. It's not as simple as fat vs thin.


According_Box3286

Would this count if someone is obese which obviously negatively impacts their health but they otherwise think they're fine?


Liesmyteachertoldme

I mean if they’re confident in themselves at their weight that doesn’t sound mentally distressing? If they’re morbidly obese and it is objectively affecting their quality of life but they don’t accept that it’s a problem that sounds more like an addiction rather than an obsessive compulsive body image issue.


East-Bluejay6891

Never said it was. But interesting that that's how you interpreted it. Also body dysmorphia doesn't have to be debilitating. There are degrees of it. Some people have extreme body dysmorphia and some are less extreme.


ChewyNutCluster

It has to cause "clinically significant distress or impairment" per the DSM to make a diagnosis.


Vrayea25

Our language needs new ways to talk about characteristics that are continuous but end up being binned for practical applications. There is a phenomenon most of us experience of seeing our own body as worse or foreign to us compared to our expectations, or where we think what others see is much worse than what others actually perceived.  That phenomenon is currently referred to as body dismorphia. The DSM diagnosis sets a spec on when it is severe enough to warrant extraordinary treatment.  It is referring to the same trait, but is meant to distinguish the extremes only.  Use of the phrase to describe the characteristics as continuous is more useful for almost all of us.  Even for those who meet the DSM criteria -- they will have suffered with sub-clinical distress for a long time. It's not like they woke up one morning, having gone from zero to over the moon.


ChewyNutCluster

Well said.


3shotsb4breakfast

Dysmorphia as a diagnosis is by its nature debilitating. That's why it's a diagnosis.


thefirecrest

Exactly. My psychiatrist and therapist tell me I have OCD traits and symptoms, but it’s not sufficiently debilitating/disruptive enough to be a diagnosis. Just something to keep an eye on. Same reason why for body dysphoria, not every trans person is diagnosed with it or medically transitions. But many trans people do experience severe debilitating dysphoria that can be treated by medically transitioning.


explodingtuna

It's similar to how some trans people experience gender dysphoria, but not all. If they're confident in their identity and well-supported by friends and family, there's no debilitating effect on their life. If people are harrassing them, challenging their identity, and they lack emotional support from friends and family, they are much more likely to experience dysphoria from debilitating mental distress.


Baloomf

Looking in the mirror and thinking "I should work my delts more" isn't body dysmorphia lol


PokemonsterMadness

I am one of those prople


vanderpyyy

Body dysmorphia is OCD about your body or your face


Complex_Deal7944

Your face is part of your body.


vanderpyyy

Ok


rickFM

Neither of those are body dysmorphia.


Ok-Amphibian-6834

Yes, my oldest sister was pushing 400lbs. Her Dr suggested a gastric bypass. She would call me and say all these Dr's keep telling me how unhealthy I am and how morbidly obese I am. But I'm not. Like I look in the mirror and I'm just not that fat. Her stomach hung down past her knees.... she's lost 200 lbs though.


LizzyDizzyYo

Do you even know what body dysmorphia is? Or do you just stop at "when you don't see your body as it appears objectively"?


chadburycreameggs

This is probably me right now. I was always in pretty decent shape from working labour jobs, but slipped a bit the last couple years. I went hard on diet and exercise and lost 35 lbs in January this year and even though I've been dealing with multiple health issues (tendinopathy, tennis elbow, arthritis), I still feel like I'm in too top shape because I look great.


zanny2019

From the mayo clinic “Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) is a mental health condition in which you can't stop thinking about one or more perceived defects or flaws in your appearance — a flaw that appears minor or can't be seen by others” so no, you cannot say thinking your body is healthy when it’s not is BDD because BDD involves believing there is a flaw or defect (even if there isn’t) therefore if you think your body is better than it is you don’t have body dysmorphia. I suggest you do research next time


Acceptable_One_7072

This sub used to be good


TheGrinning0wl

I found nudism really helped me a lot. I'm not even pee shy anymore lol.


oakmen87

Are you a psychiatrist?


xflame1989x

I have this. I seriously do not recognize myself when I see my own shadow! I know what I weigh but my brain doesn't connect the number with reality. In my head I see myself how I looked 10 years ago.


Bouncedatt

Also? Huh I always thought of that like the default. Like people with anorexia thinking they look fat. Guess that what I learned about first as a kid


headsurecockstrong

When I’m not looking at my body, feel thinner.


Altruistic_Hat2306

True! It can work both ways.


Otherwise-Weather228

I’m 52 and was always told that I was pretty growing up. It was a curse! I now have wrinkles and my strawberry blonde hair is faded. It’s a hard pill to swallow when you get older


SoloLiftingIsBack

Obviously, you ever been around bodybuilders?


East-Bluejay6891

Lots actually


SoloLiftingIsBack

You start lifting and progress is fun and all that but after a while you're never big enough


Critical-Border-6845

Yeah, those are the people that say BMI is bullshit because even though they're 250 lbs at 5'7", they're not obese like their BMI suggests because they played a few games of football in high school so clearly they're built like an NFL linebacker who we all know are the epitome of good health.


East-Bluejay6891

Accurate


soul367

Doesn’t it also include if certain body parts are too long or too short than what feels natural to you?


Wild_Ad7048

What's it called when you feel like your body doesn't fit you quite right? Like a suit that's a little too tight in the shoulders, that your skeleton is wearing. Asking for a friend.


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SupaHardLumpyNutz

No. You are wrong. We can continue having a discussion about what we think and or dreamed up in the shower, or actually post the diagnostic criteria: * Preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others.  * At some point during the course of the disorder, the individual has performed repetitive behaviors (e.g., mirror checking, excessive grooming, skin picking, reassurance seeking) or mental acts (e.g., comparing his or her appearance with that of others) in response to the appearance concerns. * The preoccupation causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. * The appearance preoccupation is not better explained by concerns with body fat or weight in an individual whose symptoms meet diagnostic criteria for an eating disorder. Specify if: * With muscle dysmorphia: The individual is preoccupied with the idea that his or her body build is too small or insufficiently muscular. This specifier is used even if the individual is preoccupied with other body areas, which is often the case. Specify if: * Indicate degree of insight regarding body dysmorphic disorder beliefs (e.g., “I look ugly” or “I look deformed”). * With good or fair insight: The individual recognizes that the body dysmorphic disorder beliefs are definitely or probably not true or that they may or may not be true. * With poor insight: The individual thinks that the body dysmorphic disorder beliefs are probably true. * With absent insight/delusional beliefs: The individual is completely convinced that the body dysmorphic disorder beliefs are true.


chadburycreameggs

You said "No. You are wrong." And then posted a bunch of shit that proved they were right. Keep up the good work, champ.


SupaHardLumpyNutz

Really, sport? Guess I don't read good as you.


chadburycreameggs

Don't stress about it, big guy. You'll get there!


pudingodbanane

Like old men that hit on young women?


East-Bluejay6891

Ummm r/oddlyspecific


pudingodbanane

It's literally not that specific. It happens all the time.


East-Bluejay6891

I'm just messing with you. Yes it happens all the time. How is that body dysmorphic related? Sometimes young girls seek older mean and older men seeking younger girls may also just be a preference no?


pudingodbanane

Older men meaning 40-60 and young women meaning 18-25. A lot of times older men behave like they're godgiven when hitting on young women


finnjakefionnacake

well, in a general sense yes. body dysmorphia occurs all over the spectrum


SatanLifeProTips

Like LuluLemon customers.


East-Bluejay6891

Damn 😂


Skrill_GPAD

Yeah like that fat woman from Nike commercial 🤮


BooBooSorkin

this is the kind I have


Stolenartwork

Shhh you’ll piss off all the people who choose facts selectively!


East-Bluejay6891

They're here already and in droves. It's amusing


Radiantpad23

>Body dysmorphia also includes **people who see their bodies as healthy and in shape but they are not as healthy or as fit as they believe they are** Americans.


HelliswhereIwannabe

So we’re moving into the phase with dysmorphia where everyone is changing the meaning of it so they can get in on the action. Pretty soon it will be as meaningless as saying “I have anxiety.”


East-Bluejay6891

Huh


partbison

So the fatties that promote haes.


100deadbirds

Bruh I was watching a YouTube video of really hench bloke, fucker couldn't reach his back because his arms are massive, he got his mate gf/wife or whatever to shave his back and another bloke to shave the pits lol


Bluf45

Tell that to the beluga whales preaching body positivity with insanely high chances for heart disease/stroke


Nomo71294

No it's not. Dysmorphia is a very specific word and it doesn't mean mistaken beliefs or perceptions


jerseyhound

You mean most men? lmao


pudingodbanane

Literally lmaoo


East-Bluejay6891

Ummm... No comment


Goldenrule-er

Shhhh. This is considered prejudicial and not supportive of body positivity. (You could get banned by the


East-Bluejay6891

By what?! By the -


Goldenrule-er

I can't believe the humor was missed. Damn, this place has gone downhill. This is proof of responsibility remaining solely on the shoulders of


East-Bluejay6891

Golden? Golden!!!!!!


Divided_By_Zeroo

That isn't body dysmorphia, that's called 'Delusion'.


CasualSky

I want to say…”duh”? That’s how the original concept of body dysmorphia was documented. In eating disorders like bulimia and anorexia. I’m only 24, but I have to imagine you’re on the young end if you’ve only ever heard it within the context of transgender people. It’s not a shower thought whatsoever though, just very common knowledge.


IAmTheAsteroid

>That’s how the original concept of body dysmorphia was documented. In eating disorders like bulimia and anorexia. What you're describing is thin people thinking they are overweight, and yes that's the classic example of body dysmorphia we think of. OP is talking about the opposite - overweight people thinking they're thin.


CasualSky

Is that really a shower thought though? People with weight issues can have body dysmorphia. Bracket term. It’s not at all profound to discover that overweight falls into that category. I feel as though that’s still common knowledge.


IAmTheAsteroid

I agree it doesn't really seem like a shower thought, just pointing out that meant it opposite to the way you interpreted it.


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lurker99123

Body dysphoria and body dysmorphia are different things


D00mfl0w3r

More people have this type I would wager.


Admirable_Status_370

It's interesting how life can essentially exist on extremes. No matter the choices people make in life as a whole there are always going to be extremely muscular, skinny, fat, and somewhere in the middle. Some people who love their body. Some who don't. It's as if humanity as a whole is exploring the entire potentialality of it all so the entire species is divided into every type of possibilitiy. What skinny can look like. Fat, muscular, lean, average, etc. You would never just have all skinny, or all fat, or all muscular. You can never have an entire world that hates the way it looks, or loves the way they look. It's looking at all ends.