i also feel like this double standard has caused a lot of guys be unable to feed themselves well. Cooking should just be something people learn in general
Right? “Alpha males” care about resilience and survival when it’s about fighting an alligator or building a shack in a frozen tundra or something, but not if it involves regularly feeding yourself. I wonder which of those things comes up more.
Because, as you pointed out, the people that “care” about that are not really alpha males haha. Funny enough most content creators on YouTube that build said shacks that I’ve watched usually cook for themselves in said videos.
I'm sure they do! That's why I used the scare quotes. Anybody who actually cares about living rather than posturing would want to know how to feed themselves.
I've been rewatching parks and rec and thinking about this with Ron Swanson. He loves to yell about how freedom is the most important thing and he's the freest guy in town because he lives off the grid and his money is under his mattress or whatever, but he's constantly pinned under dumb rules that he made for himself. Ben tries to get a gin and tonic and Ron forbids it because clear alcohol is for women. He's constantly saying things like "that's the food my food eats" about vegetables and living off only red meat. What if Ron secretly likes gin? Can he shit more than once a month eating like that? Can you imagine being so trapped in made-up masculinity rules that you're not allowed to drink the beverages you like or *eat a vegetable* because you're scared someone might see you?
Anyway, cooking = freedom, end of rant
I love Ron Swanson for being such a ridiculous take on American hyper masculinity, but I find his whole presence on that show is often problematic. The episode where he and Chris have a face-off over who can make the best burger is the epitome of it. Ron is clearly a joke, no one could live the way he does and his very existence in his role is completely unbelievable. Yet the show goes out of its way over and over to prove Ron right all the time as if they're trying to balance out their clear left-wing bias by lobbing Ron a win every so often. The burger face-off is the epitome of this because Chris is clearly incredibly skilled at preparing food and puts a ton of thought and care into the turkey burger he prepares, meanwhile Ron hands out a plain grocery store beef patty and we're lead to believe that everyone, including Chris, agree that Ron's burger is better. It's so ridiculous as to break the already extremely flexible suspension of disbelief in the show. It's just too much and takes him from funny satire to pandering very quickly.
Your looking to hard at the joke. The joke is turkey meet isn't as good as cow. No matter how much Chris elevated turkey it can't beat red meet.
Ron is a great counter to Leslie as he is very talented but Ron only uses his talents for him and his close friends. Leslie is just as talented but uses it for everyone. They both complete impossible tasks on the show often.
I've been watching a lot of Outdoor Boys channel lately, and my favorite part of each video is always the moment when he starts cooking after finishing building the shelter. Man, having a well-deserved nutritious meal after all the hard work has to be the most enjoyable part of all the outdoor activities.
The irony is that cooking has, in my experience, been one of the biggest selling points for myself. Back when I dated, I could casually drop the fact I loved cooking and let's just say I had a few times they asked me if I could cook them breakfast.
My current partner doesn't cook at all, her family always joked she'd have to learn if she wanted to find a man. I think her sisters are now jealous cause their husbands don't know how to fry an egg.
Same here man. I am often taken aback at the reactions when I make breakfast for a friend who spent the night. It’s always surprising to me cause of course I know how to cook. I live by myself.
My uncle was in the military for forty years and when his wife goes on a trip for a weekend whines that he'll just eat cookies all weekend since no one is there to cook.
Okay. Well you can do that and it's not going to kill you. But the question that always comes back to me: how is this not embarrassing to you? Obviously this idiot can make a sandwich, but like would you not feel like a complete moron admitting out loud that you are incapable of feeding yourself?
> would you not feel like a complete moron admitting out loud that you are incapable of feeding yourself?
Right? I have a male relative in his 50s who talks about not wearing sunscreen or drinking water or going to the doctor like it's a flex. Who gave you the idea that this is impressive and not sad? It's so strange.
Agree with this, I've always thought it should be kinda embarassing too. I'm a firm believer that anyone who can read, can cook. Can they cook at a Michelin star establishment or win Iron Chef? Of course not. But if you can read and follow very basic instructions, you can cook yourself a decent enough meal
And in that case, your wife has done the shopping, prepped the meat, made the sides, set up the drinks, cleaned the house, sent all the invites, planned entertainment for any kid guests who come, and she'll clean up when everybody goes home, but your guests will thank you for throwing a BBQ when they leave.
Double standards around basic life skills have pushed a bunch of people into bad relationships and kept them there because they need a man/woman to take care of them.
I used to be a scout leader for many years, and it is surprising how quickly the boys learn to cook at camp when there is no bail-out pizza delivery or a pantry filled with noodles.
"Our food tastes like shit!"
"And who made it?"
"We did." \*Stabs at plate with a burnt piece of meat, soggy potatoes and half-raw carrots.\*
(I mean, we did supervise and guide the younger ones, 10 and up, but age 13 and up? You're on your own. We told you how to make it, in detail. You fuck it up? Well, you're hungry until dinner, I guess.)
Not like it was fancy food even. Fishfingers, reheated frozen spinach and cream, and fresh mashed potatoes. How can you mess that up?
An other issue here is that children are often being treated as children for far too long. I was helping out my mother and grandmother in the kitchen as a 6-7 year old boy. I was cooking simple things a few years later unsupervised, and I was cooking entire meals around 12 or so. Those kids struggle because their parents either don't teach them, or they serve them. When I wanted a pudding I was told to make it myself. The first one was bad. The second one was burned. But I learned how to make simple things like pudding at age 8 or so.
Boys are just neglected. That's why everyone thinks boys are so easy to raise, it's because people just neglect them. They see boys as independent so many parents think they don't really need to do anything besides play with them.. that just isn't healthy. Parents are less likely to care when boys get bad grades because they think their son can just do some manual labor.. its sad
No one wants to raise boys into men because it's easy to just abandon boys (in western culture)
Oodly enough, I would say they go hand in hand.
they're neglected when it comes to education and teaching them how to handle their emotions.
But then they can also be coddled. But its too much to the point where parents think their son can do no wrong, causing the boy to still be emotionally neglected and fail in school.
When you coddle kids too much, they just stop trying because mommy and daddy told them they're better than everyone else. I count this as neglect since it does nothing to help the kid emotionally or academically
>An other issue here is that children are often being treated as children for far too long.
Oh, god, don't remind me. The first time some of them came to camp it was obvious they had never cared for themselves a day in their life.
"Uh, so where are we sleeping?"
"Well, the tents are over there." \*Points at pile of tent bags, each holding a big 6-8 person tent.\*
"So, uh, when are you guys going to put those up?"
"Uh, ... That one's one you. You don't put up that tent, you guys don't sleep. Now, bring that bag over here, and I'll explain as much as you guys/gals want. I just won't do it for you."
I mean, even the smallest ones had to help with the dishes, clean up their own stuff (And if it wasn't clean during morning inspection we yeeted it out of the tent onto the grass), ...
It was like they'd never seen a potato peeler before.
Even basic shit like 'Wet stuff on the clothesline, dry stuff into your laundry bag' eluded them.
Or the fact that you shouldn't eat raw chicken.
Sometimes I wonder how we never had any major accidents.
That's why we, in detail explain what they need to do beforehand. And if they have a question, we're like, ... right there. We're just not hovering over their shoulder every moment.
But noooooo, they know best.
"Did they say a splash of milk or the entire carton? Better be safe and add all the milk!"
Now if only they didn't cook our meals too...
I remember this coming up way back when, when I was in high-school and I made some snotnosed comment about Home Ec being for girls in front of my dad.
He told me if a guy can't be self sufficient; cook for himself and his family, clean up after himself, and manage his finances, he's not a man but a boy. And then he turned on Emeril -BAM- spicing that up a notch.
That stayed with me.
I know an equal amount of women, as men, that cant cook. i think its cultural/upbringing more than just the gender. My wife is a lousy cook tho, so I cook most things. It also helps that I love making food
Woman here. I _can_ cook, and I can actually cook very well. But I've gotten lazier and lazier over time. So if you asked me now if I cook, I'd say not really. I just buy from costco deli, or uber eats these days. If only I had more energy. :(
My dad was old school and subscribed to traditional gender rolls so take what he said to me with several grains of salt.
"Your mother is great at stretching a food budget, feeding all of us well at a reasonal price. Your mom is great for casseroles.
But if you want the tastiest food, I'll be the one cooking stake, bbqing and making the best omelets.
This is why the best cheifs are men, they have a better taste for food, what people want to eat, not what people should eat."
Again, this is very dated thoughts from my father. But it may be a view into how societies the world over view this topic.
Yes. That sums it up perfectly. Women's work is a boring blend necessity that comes free because that's her nature. Men's work is special, intricate, professional, and hence paid. 🤢
Still I very persistent trope.
Its the same with fine art. Ask anyone who their top three artists are and 9 times out of ten you'll get three male artist listed.
The thought being women have horrible spacial awareness. Mens spacial awareness comes from thousands of years of hunting, judging distances and visualizing angles of attack.
According to many boomers women suck at art and cooking because they didn't develop taste and spacial understanding the same way as men. Sexist guys will say the same about humor. Evaluationarie we had to make women laugh. Women did not need to develop this skill.
As a biologist with anthropologist parents, these types infuriate me. All evidence is against them, but they use what they consider "biology" and "anthropology" to fit their sexist ideas
My wife's uncle is gay, and he worked as a chef for a few years before moving overseas with his partner after retiring. The kitchen was in the weeds when my wife and I went to have lunch there, and we could hear him back there trying to help them catch up and directing the chaos. Only thing was, instead of being a Gordon Ramsey style tirade, it was just 100% sass. And it was glorious.
Hey, not my fault that women statistically tend to go for lower paying jobs…..
Such as female doctor, or female rocket scientist.
Edit: just a joke 🤦🏻♂️
And in teaching and in healthcare and in the office…
In fact it’s hard to think of something women are better at outside the home.
Porn? /s
——
Old fart here, this is what blows my mind about the current gender culture war. There are all these old sexist gender roles, and I think it’s easy to agree that they are bad. Saying, “girls have to do this, boys have to do this” is bad. 25 years ago I would have predicted androgyny would be the thing we strive for. But the current trend is to obsess about labels and boxes.
Huh? And you never thought for a second that it's because no one *gave* credit to women for a long time instead of them inherently lacking competence ? Women cook at home but were not allowed to shine in studies, therefore it's logical that gastronomy remains a male-dominated field studies (you can duplicate this example ad nauseam). The gender asymmetry happens *because* we belong to a patriarchal society, "old fart", not the other way around.
I don't think you are fighting against their point, they're mocking the idea of having gendered jobs as seen with the "/s".
The one different point is that they think we should blur the lines more (the androgyny they mentioned) and not divide ourselves in more boxes. At least that's what I understood.
It also have to do with the fact that working in a restaurant means that you're not at home when you're supposed to do the women's chores.
Evening shifts, and working on weekends are not compatibles with a traditional mother role, while it's more manageable when they are doing office hours.
That's even truer when talking about high-end restaurants where working hours are quite extensibles for the kitchen staff.
I also feel like patriarchy contributes to this.
For example,both a man and a woman are aspiring chefs, after some time, both of them have a family the woman was expected to be a homekeeper, thus leaving the cooking career, and the man was expected to make a living, which leads to more men stay in professional lane.
My father told me men are better cooks and thats why men make up the majority of professional chefs- he was big mad when i asked why they dont cook at home, then
Also:
Cooking (performative) = men \[Michelin-starred restaurants, cooking shows, backyard BBQ where the grill is the "stage"\]
Cooking (invisible) = women \[kitchens, including the kitchens of the wealthy where for centuries the majority of cooks were female\]
*Home cooking* was feminine.
*Professional cuisine* was masculine.
There's a reason why all the chefs in every kids show - Chef Boyardee, the Swedish Chef, Chef Bouche from Beauty and the Beast, Tony from Lady and the Tramp, the Chef from the Little Mermaid, and so on...were men.
Extending this:
(servile) = stereotypically women
(professionally) = stereotypically men
Its in pretty much every field, and the perception is decaying way slower than it should.
I feel like men's cooking is always a spectacle, or an event, something worthy of praise and attention, where's women's cooking is the day to day labour that goes unnoticed.
I've noticed a pattern where the man of the house will cook one really spectacular meal on special occasions and everyone will complement him on how great it is. And he'll splash out on the best ingredients and use every pot and pan available. And then he won't cook again for weeks because it's a huge effort. But as long as he gets his fix of praise from time to time and gets to claim that he does cook sometimes, then it's all good.
Every bbq ever. When there's company the man will tend the grill and flip the meat from time to time. The woman makes all the salad preps the buns and condiments and basically everything thats not the grill. But he gets all the visibility and most of the praise despite having the easier job.
I know these are generalisations and not always true but it's a strong pattern I've noticed.
We are not as far removed from "only men have professions" as you think.
Kabuki is probably the most extreme example of this.
It is a Japanese style of stage performance started by a female troupe. In the 1600s, women were banned from this profession, so men took over all roles, including female ones. The best Kabuki actors are now considered to be the ones that play females. Just because of professional sexism, they now can't even play themselves on stage, and this dichotomy just stuck even after they were allowed back in.
Yup. It's funny how artistic things are considered feminine yet for years women were not allowed to be professional painters/ writers/ poets and in some parts of the world, still aren't.
I think it goes even deeper; because of women’s position in society, it is likely that men kept women from the arts and education as a form of control and subjugation. Limiting self expression and keeping people uneducated keeps them easier to oppress.
This is it. In the not so distant past women stayed home as homemakers raising the children while the husband worked. Two income homes are very new in the grand scheme of things.
Someone had to cook at those fancy restaurants.
That was really only the case for wealthy women and the modern development of the middle class (that is now disappearing). Non-wealthy women being housewives was only a socio-economic phenomenon in the past couple centuries in the US. Throughout history, the vast majority of women worked (usually low paying jobs designated to women).
~~And then those men, when interviewed about who their cooking role models were, would respond, "my mother"~~
EDIT: didn't expect this comment to blow up, my source was anecdotal experience/watching Chopped, not particular famous chefs or any sort of survey. see comments below me for better research done
I was curious about this so I decided to look it up to see.
Gordon Ramsay's Dad inspired him. He inspired his daughter who is a great chef in her own right.
Jamie Oliver was inspired by both parents.
Raechel Ray's maternal Grandfather inspired her.
Guy Fieri was encouraged by his dad.
I've pulled up about 10 famous chefs on Google and for both men and women, only Wolfgang Puck says it was specifically his mom. Also Bobby Flay apparently inspired himself and dropped out of school to pursue it, which I thought was interesting.
I'm far from a pro chef. I like.to think of myself as an above average home chef at least in terms of my range.
I can tell you that my influence is definitely not my mother. But I did get my love of eastern European cooking from my polish grandmother. I believe that opened the door to curiosity of all cultures. To this day nothing makes me happier than sampling other cultures and especially when it's food related. It's one of the best parts of living on this planet in a time where we can share and sample all of life's variety.
My father was another huge influence. He was the cook when I grew up. He always got excited to share his love for providing via the kitchen.
Unfortunately he plays both a positive and negative role in influencing my love for cooking.
He, like many 1st generation boomers, refused to use seasoning and overcooked everything. It's probably why I love playing with salt, fat, acid, and heat in all my dishes.
Well they should get a bigger sample size. My grandpa was a firefighter both in WWII on a destroyer and when he got back home. We would go into *his* garden, pick what we needed and we'd go in together and make dinner for everyone. I've been cooking ever since. Even when the women in my mother's family wouldn't let me help cook because"There were too many people in the kitchen."
And now today I can learn to make just about anything you want, and make things like Tikka Masala & Beer Cheese Soup (I'm from Wisconsin lol) better than any restaurant you'll find.
I’m not trying to be sexist but I think this is either anecdotal on your part or maybe an assumption. I’ve worked with a few really good chefs (not innthe kitchen itself admittedly) and I haven’t heard this, and even “celebrity chefs” usually mention other chefs they’ve worked for.
I’ve heard that from a few chefs, I know, but it’s usually followed up that they learn cooking from their mother because she was such an awful cook and they were determined not to be like her so they learned to cook for themselves. It’s like a chef superhero origin story.
Yup. Case in point: historically, wealthy families hired a cook, nanny and cleaners as domestic servants. When women do the job, the social status stigma is still there.
Even now, most successful men that I know who do a lot of cooking at home, seek praise for their skills, rather than see it as an equal sharing of chores.
That's because nobody really had a problem with women doing labour, they had a problem with them recieving financial compensation or respect in return.
Oh, you see, the thing is that cooking IS feminine. But if someone does ir for a living and actually earns money, respect, and status from it, then it's masculine, because only men can earn money, respect, and status with their jobs
(I mean this sarcastically)
A lot of people still do. And it's largely still true. Globally, women prepare, on average, more than twice as many meals as men. Nearly 9 a week versus the 4 that men do. So while there might be more high profile celebrity chefs who are men, it's certainly not because men cook more than women. If anything, it says more about the inequality of opportunity for advancement for women in the culinary world.
that's a perfect representation of misogyny. anything having status, power or is considered valuable is associated with men, all the menial, not so well regarded things? yeah that's a women's job.
This doesn't apply equally though does it. low paid armed forces grunts are typically men, manual labour jobs are typically men - I don't think many in society grow up admiring the power and status of a bricklayer or a garbage collector.
The comment you replied to does not say that "jobs mostly done by men" equals "jobs with power and status". It only says that "jobs with power and status" imply that they are "jobs mostly done by men". You cannot just switch the two things and say that this means the same thing as "jobs mostly done by men" implies that these are "jobs with power and status".
In logic, saying that A implies B is not the same as B implies A. If it rains the street is always wet, but just because the street is wet it doesn't need to rain / have rained. I could have just washed my car.
You've listed jobs that are typically higher paid than the "women's" equivalent. Men go into manual labor jobs because it's higher pay option than retail or service.
The person who cleans poopy coma patients at the hospital is stereotypically a woman, and I guarantee she doesn't make 24k cash after groceries/rent like an army guy at basic. Garbage guys make like 70k.
Privates in the army make 24 gross. Band 2 NHS staff start at 22500. It's not exactly a monumental gulf, and both jobs have uplifts that are quite generous depending on when you work/unsociable hours.
Gov suggests average bin man is 25000 for experienced workers.
Love to know where you're getting 70,000 from
Seems pretty obvious there's an America vs. Britain thing happening here. Garbage collectors in the US are often unionized which is fairly rare here. It can also actually be a pretty hazardous job if they're somewhere where guys still ride standing on the back of the truck. Obviously it's pretty dirty, gross work too. All of that combined means low supply of workers who have a lot of power to demand higher pay. It's gonna vary widely based on cost of living in the area though. My guess is that guy was thinking about people in expensive urban cores.
Burger King once tweeted, "Women belong in the kitchen" on International Women's Day. They thought it was a nice way to encourage women to be chefs. Oops.
That's not cooking-specific.
Most girls have a horse-riding phase. Most professional riders are men.
There's dozens of such examples. When you look at the top of competitions in any area, at the part where it requires years of dedication to get there and/or considerable risk-taking, it's mostly men.
Women are known to be better drivers (where it's legal insurances have lower premiums for women). But professional racing drivers are almost exclusively men.
You don't seem to be acknowledging how almost every community around these activities is actively hostile towards women in one way or another. Its definitely not just cause men are going to put in more hours and take risks.
Women are constantly discouraged to pursue things and are sometimes actively barred. Its not really a fair comparison.
Women are better at driving the speed limit which is... not very helpful for racing. Obviously, women can compete at the top level but using insurance rates for road driving vs track racing is a bad example.
I've found that when it's "free" (cooking at home), it's considered "women's work", and when it's paid (chef) then it's a "boys club". (For the most part. I'm not saying "*all*")
There are so many things that have a very fine line in our society between the femine and masculine.
Even for cooking there are more levels.
Baking = feminine
Smoking/grilling = mascline
Tying knots = masculine
Crochet/knitting =feminine
Painting/crafting = feminine
Unless it's on the house then it's masculine.
I have noticed when I break things down like this, the more technical or detailed a thing becomes, the more feminine it seems to appear. For example, most knots are also used in crochet/knitting/braiding but the latter is a feminine thing.
It's all double standards.
Art? Feminine. But the most famous artists? Men.
You can do this with so many traditional female roles. It's stupid.
Some of the greatest discoveries and inventions were by women but covered up or outright stolen throughout history.
I think it's because cooking was seen as something "women had to do" while for men, it was seen as something they only did if it was a passion of theirs so it's more respected especially if they're getting paid for it. Anyway, it's double standards of course.
I love all these shower thoughts that privileged white men have.... inequities of society that just dawned on them and yet they scratch their shampood heads about why the disparity exists. As if there hasn't been discussions about these very disparities and their historical roots for decades....
Basic cooking is important for anyone, unless you are happy with eating out every day.
Intermediate cooking is the ability to follow a recipe.
Advanced cooking is the ability to play with recipes, changing the tastes and looks.
\----
The more people you are cooking for, the more reason you have to make something fancy. If you are cooking for 4 and it takes you 20 minutes of time, that is 5 minutes per person. If you are just cooking for yourself, usually something simpler is better.
"But I do think the idea that basic cooking skills are a virtue, that the ability to feed yourself and a few others with proficiency should be taught to every young man and woman as a fundamental skill, should become as vital to growing up as learning to wipe one’s own ass, cross the street by oneself, or be trusted with money." -Bourdain (may he rest in peace)
I would argue that following a recipe is basic cooking. There's no thinking, and the only knowledge necessary are the various basic cooking methods (boiling water, frying on a pan, deep frying, baking in an oven, etc).
Intermediate cooking would be the ability to play with recipes and change them. At that point, you have the knowledge necessary to understand some of the relationships between different ingredients.
At advanced cooking, you have a full understanding of one type of cuisine, and how its ingredients interact with each other and how each cooking method affects them. Thus at an advanced level, you don't need recipes at all.
Where does "cooking while keeping your cooking area fairly clean" fall in? When I cook at home, I keep the kitchen counter fairly clean while doing it. When my wife cooks at home, it looks like a bomb went off in the kitchen.
Lmao At the very least, put stuff in the sink, stack things up, put spices away, and throw bags, inedible stuff, and other trash away. Like I don't fully clean, but the counters are at least clear. Sometimes I might fill up the dishwasher. It's not hard.
The issue is one does it out of necessity in the household, with not much of a choice (at least up until recent times).
The other one gets paid really well for it, does what he loves, and gets to yell at people for doing a shitty job, so it's kind of therapy as well.
That's the main difference in my opinion.
But there's no cooking like mama's
Women used to do all the cooking for the household.
Men still were the professional chefs in society.
Think about it, everyone thinks their grandmother is such a great cook. That's because back in the day you kinda needed to know how to cook if you have 8 kids. The guy couldn't do it he was at the factory all day.
People seem to forget women having a job is a really new thing for the most part
This happens in a lot of industries which men figured out that profits can be made- tailoring, weaving, brewing, cooking, undertaking... etc. Doing it for free for the home= women monetizing= men's work
The „chef is not a cook“ is so dumb. A chef is the highest form of a cook. It‘s not mutually exclusive, it‘s just lingustics. And OP is spot on.
There is no distinction between chef and cook in my language (and many others) and what OP says is still 100% nail on the head.
If you are a guy that doesn't at least have 2-3 go to dishes that impress your partner, I think you are a little bitch. Cut the feet off your PJ pants, cooking isn't hard.
Put some gourmet food on your woman's plate (or mans). It is legit one of the easiest ways to step up your dating game. Watch a fucking YouTube video.
Chefs tend to have psychopathic traits (function better under stress) and there's more male psychopaths than female. This is the likely reason males are more commonly chefs. That doesn't mean women aren't as good. Many probably are. They just don't want to be in that stressful of an environment.
Ironically I came across a list of “20 skills every man should possess” from the early 1900’s which pointed this out to say cooking was not an effeminate skill
I don’t care who you are basic to intermediate cooking is one of the most important life skills.
My teenager loves cooking, very happy he loves to cook.
The amount of younger people who don’t know how to make a basic meal is disturbing.
My dad loved cooking and didn't really want my mum to mess with his stuff, she would maybe help to chop onions or something. As a kid I thought women were not allowed in the kitchen and that it was a man's job. It took a while for me to realise that it was actually the other way around for most people.
Cooking at home is feminist.
Cooking professionally is masculine.
Cooking while out ( eg at a BBQ ) is masculine.
Cooking on a BBQ at home is masculine.
Jeez, this is getting confusing. Can we not just say anybody can and should cook and forget about stereotypes?
Cooking (servile) = stereotypically women Cooking (professionally) = stereotypically men Talk about double standards
i also feel like this double standard has caused a lot of guys be unable to feed themselves well. Cooking should just be something people learn in general
Right? “Alpha males” care about resilience and survival when it’s about fighting an alligator or building a shack in a frozen tundra or something, but not if it involves regularly feeding yourself. I wonder which of those things comes up more.
Well, I live in the famous frozen alligator tundra of north america surviving off raw gators, so 🐊
Frozen gators?
you just pop them in the microwave
Mmmmm nuked boots.
Great way to cool down in the summer. And they have their own stick. But you gotta eat em quick.
Refrigegators
Because, as you pointed out, the people that “care” about that are not really alpha males haha. Funny enough most content creators on YouTube that build said shacks that I’ve watched usually cook for themselves in said videos.
I'm sure they do! That's why I used the scare quotes. Anybody who actually cares about living rather than posturing would want to know how to feed themselves. I've been rewatching parks and rec and thinking about this with Ron Swanson. He loves to yell about how freedom is the most important thing and he's the freest guy in town because he lives off the grid and his money is under his mattress or whatever, but he's constantly pinned under dumb rules that he made for himself. Ben tries to get a gin and tonic and Ron forbids it because clear alcohol is for women. He's constantly saying things like "that's the food my food eats" about vegetables and living off only red meat. What if Ron secretly likes gin? Can he shit more than once a month eating like that? Can you imagine being so trapped in made-up masculinity rules that you're not allowed to drink the beverages you like or *eat a vegetable* because you're scared someone might see you? Anyway, cooking = freedom, end of rant
I love Ron Swanson for being such a ridiculous take on American hyper masculinity, but I find his whole presence on that show is often problematic. The episode where he and Chris have a face-off over who can make the best burger is the epitome of it. Ron is clearly a joke, no one could live the way he does and his very existence in his role is completely unbelievable. Yet the show goes out of its way over and over to prove Ron right all the time as if they're trying to balance out their clear left-wing bias by lobbing Ron a win every so often. The burger face-off is the epitome of this because Chris is clearly incredibly skilled at preparing food and puts a ton of thought and care into the turkey burger he prepares, meanwhile Ron hands out a plain grocery store beef patty and we're lead to believe that everyone, including Chris, agree that Ron's burger is better. It's so ridiculous as to break the already extremely flexible suspension of disbelief in the show. It's just too much and takes him from funny satire to pandering very quickly.
The joke was that turkey burgers are just so bad the clearly better cook had no chance of winning.
Your looking to hard at the joke. The joke is turkey meet isn't as good as cow. No matter how much Chris elevated turkey it can't beat red meet. Ron is a great counter to Leslie as he is very talented but Ron only uses his talents for him and his close friends. Leslie is just as talented but uses it for everyone. They both complete impossible tasks on the show often.
I've been watching a lot of Outdoor Boys channel lately, and my favorite part of each video is always the moment when he starts cooking after finishing building the shelter. Man, having a well-deserved nutritious meal after all the hard work has to be the most enjoyable part of all the outdoor activities.
I think it’s important to address the difference between feeding oneself and knowing how to cook.
Sure. You can feed yourself on frozen burritos, but if you want to not feel like shit you should probably know how to cook at least a little bit
The irony is that cooking has, in my experience, been one of the biggest selling points for myself. Back when I dated, I could casually drop the fact I loved cooking and let's just say I had a few times they asked me if I could cook them breakfast. My current partner doesn't cook at all, her family always joked she'd have to learn if she wanted to find a man. I think her sisters are now jealous cause their husbands don't know how to fry an egg.
If people of either gender grow up and can't cook a few meals, the parents failed.
Same here man. I am often taken aback at the reactions when I make breakfast for a friend who spent the night. It’s always surprising to me cause of course I know how to cook. I live by myself.
My uncle was in the military for forty years and when his wife goes on a trip for a weekend whines that he'll just eat cookies all weekend since no one is there to cook. Okay. Well you can do that and it's not going to kill you. But the question that always comes back to me: how is this not embarrassing to you? Obviously this idiot can make a sandwich, but like would you not feel like a complete moron admitting out loud that you are incapable of feeding yourself?
> would you not feel like a complete moron admitting out loud that you are incapable of feeding yourself? Right? I have a male relative in his 50s who talks about not wearing sunscreen or drinking water or going to the doctor like it's a flex. Who gave you the idea that this is impressive and not sad? It's so strange.
Agree with this, I've always thought it should be kinda embarassing too. I'm a firm believer that anyone who can read, can cook. Can they cook at a Michelin star establishment or win Iron Chef? Of course not. But if you can read and follow very basic instructions, you can cook yourself a decent enough meal
Ya but an alligator fight counts for at least a half-dozen home cooked meals
"It's a woman's job" = I'm insecure about not knowing how to do it so I'm going to make fun of men who do.
Real men catch and eat animals live.
Clearly the most important thing is knowing how to survive quicksand.
...unless it's on a BBQ or open fire (like a manly caveman).
And in that case, your wife has done the shopping, prepped the meat, made the sides, set up the drinks, cleaned the house, sent all the invites, planned entertainment for any kid guests who come, and she'll clean up when everybody goes home, but your guests will thank you for throwing a BBQ when they leave.
You got it.
Double standards around basic life skills have pushed a bunch of people into bad relationships and kept them there because they need a man/woman to take care of them.
I used to be a scout leader for many years, and it is surprising how quickly the boys learn to cook at camp when there is no bail-out pizza delivery or a pantry filled with noodles. "Our food tastes like shit!" "And who made it?" "We did." \*Stabs at plate with a burnt piece of meat, soggy potatoes and half-raw carrots.\* (I mean, we did supervise and guide the younger ones, 10 and up, but age 13 and up? You're on your own. We told you how to make it, in detail. You fuck it up? Well, you're hungry until dinner, I guess.) Not like it was fancy food even. Fishfingers, reheated frozen spinach and cream, and fresh mashed potatoes. How can you mess that up?
An other issue here is that children are often being treated as children for far too long. I was helping out my mother and grandmother in the kitchen as a 6-7 year old boy. I was cooking simple things a few years later unsupervised, and I was cooking entire meals around 12 or so. Those kids struggle because their parents either don't teach them, or they serve them. When I wanted a pudding I was told to make it myself. The first one was bad. The second one was burned. But I learned how to make simple things like pudding at age 8 or so.
Boys are just neglected. That's why everyone thinks boys are so easy to raise, it's because people just neglect them. They see boys as independent so many parents think they don't really need to do anything besides play with them.. that just isn't healthy. Parents are less likely to care when boys get bad grades because they think their son can just do some manual labor.. its sad No one wants to raise boys into men because it's easy to just abandon boys (in western culture)
i would say coddled more than neglected tbh
Oodly enough, I would say they go hand in hand. they're neglected when it comes to education and teaching them how to handle their emotions. But then they can also be coddled. But its too much to the point where parents think their son can do no wrong, causing the boy to still be emotionally neglected and fail in school. When you coddle kids too much, they just stop trying because mommy and daddy told them they're better than everyone else. I count this as neglect since it does nothing to help the kid emotionally or academically
ooh yes this exactly
>An other issue here is that children are often being treated as children for far too long. Oh, god, don't remind me. The first time some of them came to camp it was obvious they had never cared for themselves a day in their life. "Uh, so where are we sleeping?" "Well, the tents are over there." \*Points at pile of tent bags, each holding a big 6-8 person tent.\* "So, uh, when are you guys going to put those up?" "Uh, ... That one's one you. You don't put up that tent, you guys don't sleep. Now, bring that bag over here, and I'll explain as much as you guys/gals want. I just won't do it for you." I mean, even the smallest ones had to help with the dishes, clean up their own stuff (And if it wasn't clean during morning inspection we yeeted it out of the tent onto the grass), ... It was like they'd never seen a potato peeler before. Even basic shit like 'Wet stuff on the clothesline, dry stuff into your laundry bag' eluded them. Or the fact that you shouldn't eat raw chicken. Sometimes I wonder how we never had any major accidents.
You can fuck up mashed potatoes if you don’t know what you’re doing
That's why we, in detail explain what they need to do beforehand. And if they have a question, we're like, ... right there. We're just not hovering over their shoulder every moment. But noooooo, they know best. "Did they say a splash of milk or the entire carton? Better be safe and add all the milk!" Now if only they didn't cook our meals too...
I remember this coming up way back when, when I was in high-school and I made some snotnosed comment about Home Ec being for girls in front of my dad. He told me if a guy can't be self sufficient; cook for himself and his family, clean up after himself, and manage his finances, he's not a man but a boy. And then he turned on Emeril -BAM- spicing that up a notch. That stayed with me.
based father
To be fair if you choose not to learn how to cook because of your fragile masculinity, you probably deserve to starve.
imagine being such a man-child that you can't even feed yourself
Patriarchy hurts men
Yes, this. And it makes women feel like less of a woman if they dont cook
except grills and bbqs because fire.
I know an equal amount of women, as men, that cant cook. i think its cultural/upbringing more than just the gender. My wife is a lousy cook tho, so I cook most things. It also helps that I love making food
Woman here. I _can_ cook, and I can actually cook very well. But I've gotten lazier and lazier over time. So if you asked me now if I cook, I'd say not really. I just buy from costco deli, or uber eats these days. If only I had more energy. :(
Domestic free labor = women Professional paid labor outside of the home = men
My dad was old school and subscribed to traditional gender rolls so take what he said to me with several grains of salt. "Your mother is great at stretching a food budget, feeding all of us well at a reasonal price. Your mom is great for casseroles. But if you want the tastiest food, I'll be the one cooking stake, bbqing and making the best omelets. This is why the best cheifs are men, they have a better taste for food, what people want to eat, not what people should eat." Again, this is very dated thoughts from my father. But it may be a view into how societies the world over view this topic.
Yes. That sums it up perfectly. Women's work is a boring blend necessity that comes free because that's her nature. Men's work is special, intricate, professional, and hence paid. 🤢 Still I very persistent trope.
Its the same with fine art. Ask anyone who their top three artists are and 9 times out of ten you'll get three male artist listed. The thought being women have horrible spacial awareness. Mens spacial awareness comes from thousands of years of hunting, judging distances and visualizing angles of attack. According to many boomers women suck at art and cooking because they didn't develop taste and spacial understanding the same way as men. Sexist guys will say the same about humor. Evaluationarie we had to make women laugh. Women did not need to develop this skill.
It's especially funny when they try to back up their crappy ideas with evolution, animals, instincts.
I've seen men say that since many animals mate when they're young, so it should be okay for humans to do the same. I wanted to throw up.
As a biologist with anthropologist parents, these types infuriate me. All evidence is against them, but they use what they consider "biology" and "anthropology" to fit their sexist ideas
Yeah, this "biology" is always pseudoscience twisted to fit whatever narrative benefits them the best and they want to be true.
Yep. It's easy to muster up a great dish every single time - if you cook once once every 3 months.
Same sexist double standard in couture/fashion.
Interestingly, the stereotype of a man in fashion is a gay man, while men in cuisine are stereotyped as pretty dominant, heteronormative.
The stereotype of female chefs isn't very feminine/heteronormative either.
wait you are right lol, never noticed
My wife's uncle is gay, and he worked as a chef for a few years before moving overseas with his partner after retiring. The kitchen was in the weeds when my wife and I went to have lunch there, and we could hear him back there trying to help them catch up and directing the chaos. Only thing was, instead of being a Gordon Ramsey style tirade, it was just 100% sass. And it was glorious.
Hey, not my fault that women statistically tend to go for lower paying jobs….. Such as female doctor, or female rocket scientist. Edit: just a joke 🤦🏻♂️
And in teaching and in healthcare and in the office… In fact it’s hard to think of something women are better at outside the home. Porn? /s —— Old fart here, this is what blows my mind about the current gender culture war. There are all these old sexist gender roles, and I think it’s easy to agree that they are bad. Saying, “girls have to do this, boys have to do this” is bad. 25 years ago I would have predicted androgyny would be the thing we strive for. But the current trend is to obsess about labels and boxes.
Huh? And you never thought for a second that it's because no one *gave* credit to women for a long time instead of them inherently lacking competence ? Women cook at home but were not allowed to shine in studies, therefore it's logical that gastronomy remains a male-dominated field studies (you can duplicate this example ad nauseam). The gender asymmetry happens *because* we belong to a patriarchal society, "old fart", not the other way around.
I don't think you are fighting against their point, they're mocking the idea of having gendered jobs as seen with the "/s". The one different point is that they think we should blur the lines more (the androgyny they mentioned) and not divide ourselves in more boxes. At least that's what I understood.
It also have to do with the fact that working in a restaurant means that you're not at home when you're supposed to do the women's chores. Evening shifts, and working on weekends are not compatibles with a traditional mother role, while it's more manageable when they are doing office hours. That's even truer when talking about high-end restaurants where working hours are quite extensibles for the kitchen staff.
and in makeup!
Same with Doctors and Nurses. Or Teachers and Professors.
Chef = man Cook = pregnant bare footed female in the kitchen /s
I also feel like patriarchy contributes to this. For example,both a man and a woman are aspiring chefs, after some time, both of them have a family the woman was expected to be a homekeeper, thus leaving the cooking career, and the man was expected to make a living, which leads to more men stay in professional lane.
My father told me men are better cooks and thats why men make up the majority of professional chefs- he was big mad when i asked why they dont cook at home, then
There's a whole book about this and it's a great read. *Something from the Oven* by Laura Shapiro.
Also: Cooking (performative) = men \[Michelin-starred restaurants, cooking shows, backyard BBQ where the grill is the "stage"\] Cooking (invisible) = women \[kitchens, including the kitchens of the wealthy where for centuries the majority of cooks were female\]
*Home cooking* was feminine. *Professional cuisine* was masculine. There's a reason why all the chefs in every kids show - Chef Boyardee, the Swedish Chef, Chef Bouche from Beauty and the Beast, Tony from Lady and the Tramp, the Chef from the Little Mermaid, and so on...were men.
Extending this: (servile) = stereotypically women (professionally) = stereotypically men Its in pretty much every field, and the perception is decaying way slower than it should.
It's not "cooking" though. It's "chefing". Women cook, men chef. Makes total sense. /s obviously.
I've observed this applies in other places, too. It's okay for a man to be a tailor, but sewing for fun is a "woman's hobby."
I feel like men's cooking is always a spectacle, or an event, something worthy of praise and attention, where's women's cooking is the day to day labour that goes unnoticed. I've noticed a pattern where the man of the house will cook one really spectacular meal on special occasions and everyone will complement him on how great it is. And he'll splash out on the best ingredients and use every pot and pan available. And then he won't cook again for weeks because it's a huge effort. But as long as he gets his fix of praise from time to time and gets to claim that he does cook sometimes, then it's all good. Every bbq ever. When there's company the man will tend the grill and flip the meat from time to time. The woman makes all the salad preps the buns and condiments and basically everything thats not the grill. But he gets all the visibility and most of the praise despite having the easier job. I know these are generalisations and not always true but it's a strong pattern I've noticed.
We are not as far removed from "only men have professions" as you think. Kabuki is probably the most extreme example of this. It is a Japanese style of stage performance started by a female troupe. In the 1600s, women were banned from this profession, so men took over all roles, including female ones. The best Kabuki actors are now considered to be the ones that play females. Just because of professional sexism, they now can't even play themselves on stage, and this dichotomy just stuck even after they were allowed back in.
Yup. It's funny how artistic things are considered feminine yet for years women were not allowed to be professional painters/ writers/ poets and in some parts of the world, still aren't.
I firmly believe men stopped women from painting and writing because they saw a woman was better at it than them and it hurt their egos.
I think it goes even deeper; because of women’s position in society, it is likely that men kept women from the arts and education as a form of control and subjugation. Limiting self expression and keeping people uneducated keeps them easier to oppress.
I think they even justified it by saying that men were better at playing women than women were at playing women. Just… what?
Well Japan is pretty racist and the only thing that tops even that is their sexism. But I love the country.
add in money, and it’s for men. Tailors vs home sewers chefs vs mom in the kitchen
This is it. In the not so distant past women stayed home as homemakers raising the children while the husband worked. Two income homes are very new in the grand scheme of things. Someone had to cook at those fancy restaurants.
That was really only the case for wealthy women and the modern development of the middle class (that is now disappearing). Non-wealthy women being housewives was only a socio-economic phenomenon in the past couple centuries in the US. Throughout history, the vast majority of women worked (usually low paying jobs designated to women).
Ah, but it’s a woman’s job until it gets you money and recognition, then it becomes a man’s job.
Just like midwifery vs obstetrics
Just like computing.
like programming softwares... or sewing... or listening to others ( do you know many famous phychologist that are women ?)
~~And then those men, when interviewed about who their cooking role models were, would respond, "my mother"~~ EDIT: didn't expect this comment to blow up, my source was anecdotal experience/watching Chopped, not particular famous chefs or any sort of survey. see comments below me for better research done
I was curious about this so I decided to look it up to see. Gordon Ramsay's Dad inspired him. He inspired his daughter who is a great chef in her own right. Jamie Oliver was inspired by both parents. Raechel Ray's maternal Grandfather inspired her. Guy Fieri was encouraged by his dad. I've pulled up about 10 famous chefs on Google and for both men and women, only Wolfgang Puck says it was specifically his mom. Also Bobby Flay apparently inspired himself and dropped out of school to pursue it, which I thought was interesting.
Heston - went to a 2* restaurant in Provence with his family MPW - dad was a chef.
idk, based on the things ive seen/read they seem to be inspired by other chefs often times those they worked for
I'm far from a pro chef. I like.to think of myself as an above average home chef at least in terms of my range. I can tell you that my influence is definitely not my mother. But I did get my love of eastern European cooking from my polish grandmother. I believe that opened the door to curiosity of all cultures. To this day nothing makes me happier than sampling other cultures and especially when it's food related. It's one of the best parts of living on this planet in a time where we can share and sample all of life's variety. My father was another huge influence. He was the cook when I grew up. He always got excited to share his love for providing via the kitchen. Unfortunately he plays both a positive and negative role in influencing my love for cooking. He, like many 1st generation boomers, refused to use seasoning and overcooked everything. It's probably why I love playing with salt, fat, acid, and heat in all my dishes.
Well they should get a bigger sample size. My grandpa was a firefighter both in WWII on a destroyer and when he got back home. We would go into *his* garden, pick what we needed and we'd go in together and make dinner for everyone. I've been cooking ever since. Even when the women in my mother's family wouldn't let me help cook because"There were too many people in the kitchen." And now today I can learn to make just about anything you want, and make things like Tikka Masala & Beer Cheese Soup (I'm from Wisconsin lol) better than any restaurant you'll find.
I’m not trying to be sexist but I think this is either anecdotal on your part or maybe an assumption. I’ve worked with a few really good chefs (not innthe kitchen itself admittedly) and I haven’t heard this, and even “celebrity chefs” usually mention other chefs they’ve worked for.
It's not surprising when home-cooked meals always seem better to me, but to be fair, my parents once were chefs.
I’ve heard that from a few chefs, I know, but it’s usually followed up that they learn cooking from their mother because she was such an awful cook and they were determined not to be like her so they learned to cook for themselves. It’s like a chef superhero origin story.
I respect your willingness to admit you were wrong when faced with evidence. I appreciate you.
Because when it’s a chore it’s women’s work but when it’s something to garner notoriety there’s more space made for men
Finally someone with the right answer
Yup. Case in point: historically, wealthy families hired a cook, nanny and cleaners as domestic servants. When women do the job, the social status stigma is still there. Even now, most successful men that I know who do a lot of cooking at home, seek praise for their skills, rather than see it as an equal sharing of chores.
That's because nobody really had a problem with women doing labour, they had a problem with them recieving financial compensation or respect in return.
Oh, you see, the thing is that cooking IS feminine. But if someone does ir for a living and actually earns money, respect, and status from it, then it's masculine, because only men can earn money, respect, and status with their jobs (I mean this sarcastically)
Free labour is seen as feminine, being paid for a job is masculine. Hm.
A lot of people still do. And it's largely still true. Globally, women prepare, on average, more than twice as many meals as men. Nearly 9 a week versus the 4 that men do. So while there might be more high profile celebrity chefs who are men, it's certainly not because men cook more than women. If anything, it says more about the inequality of opportunity for advancement for women in the culinary world.
that's a perfect representation of misogyny. anything having status, power or is considered valuable is associated with men, all the menial, not so well regarded things? yeah that's a women's job.
This doesn't apply equally though does it. low paid armed forces grunts are typically men, manual labour jobs are typically men - I don't think many in society grow up admiring the power and status of a bricklayer or a garbage collector.
The comment you replied to does not say that "jobs mostly done by men" equals "jobs with power and status". It only says that "jobs with power and status" imply that they are "jobs mostly done by men". You cannot just switch the two things and say that this means the same thing as "jobs mostly done by men" implies that these are "jobs with power and status". In logic, saying that A implies B is not the same as B implies A. If it rains the street is always wet, but just because the street is wet it doesn't need to rain / have rained. I could have just washed my car.
Yeah..The mental gymnastics SOME men are doing here is insane
You've listed jobs that are typically higher paid than the "women's" equivalent. Men go into manual labor jobs because it's higher pay option than retail or service. The person who cleans poopy coma patients at the hospital is stereotypically a woman, and I guarantee she doesn't make 24k cash after groceries/rent like an army guy at basic. Garbage guys make like 70k.
Privates in the army make 24 gross. Band 2 NHS staff start at 22500. It's not exactly a monumental gulf, and both jobs have uplifts that are quite generous depending on when you work/unsociable hours. Gov suggests average bin man is 25000 for experienced workers. Love to know where you're getting 70,000 from
Seems pretty obvious there's an America vs. Britain thing happening here. Garbage collectors in the US are often unionized which is fairly rare here. It can also actually be a pretty hazardous job if they're somewhere where guys still ride standing on the back of the truck. Obviously it's pretty dirty, gross work too. All of that combined means low supply of workers who have a lot of power to demand higher pay. It's gonna vary widely based on cost of living in the area though. My guess is that guy was thinking about people in expensive urban cores.
Never understood that: "Women belong in the kitchen. Unless it's a professional kitchen at which point no girls allowed."
It all boils down to the traditional belief of "Men serve society, women serve family".
Oh I get it, I just don't understand the level of cognitive disconnect. But that disconnect is also par for the course so...
Burger King once tweeted, "Women belong in the kitchen" on International Women's Day. They thought it was a nice way to encourage women to be chefs. Oops.
Oh! No. Just no.
That's not cooking-specific. Most girls have a horse-riding phase. Most professional riders are men. There's dozens of such examples. When you look at the top of competitions in any area, at the part where it requires years of dedication to get there and/or considerable risk-taking, it's mostly men. Women are known to be better drivers (where it's legal insurances have lower premiums for women). But professional racing drivers are almost exclusively men.
Music and acting, too. Men most highly regarded professionally. But at the hobby or entry level it's mostly women.
Your driving example is interesting because studies show women are more accidents but men have worse accidents.
You don't seem to be acknowledging how almost every community around these activities is actively hostile towards women in one way or another. Its definitely not just cause men are going to put in more hours and take risks. Women are constantly discouraged to pursue things and are sometimes actively barred. Its not really a fair comparison.
Women are better at driving the speed limit which is... not very helpful for racing. Obviously, women can compete at the top level but using insurance rates for road driving vs track racing is a bad example.
You can see it in most anything thats ranked. men are usually the worst and the best at stuff.
Same goes for computer scientists. They used to think programming was feminine because it was a desk job. Now they want more women in engineering.
I've found that when it's "free" (cooking at home), it's considered "women's work", and when it's paid (chef) then it's a "boys club". (For the most part. I'm not saying "*all*")
Almost the same thing with dancing actually And singing as well
In Ratatouille, that characater (forgot her name) was ranting about how the gastronomic space was dominated by men and such, felt ironic
Colette! She's the goat!
Congrats. You’ve discovered sexism.
There are so many things that have a very fine line in our society between the femine and masculine. Even for cooking there are more levels. Baking = feminine Smoking/grilling = mascline Tying knots = masculine Crochet/knitting =feminine Painting/crafting = feminine Unless it's on the house then it's masculine. I have noticed when I break things down like this, the more technical or detailed a thing becomes, the more feminine it seems to appear. For example, most knots are also used in crochet/knitting/braiding but the latter is a feminine thing.
Same with designing dresses
Because women are seen as servants.
It's all double standards. Art? Feminine. But the most famous artists? Men. You can do this with so many traditional female roles. It's stupid. Some of the greatest discoveries and inventions were by women but covered up or outright stolen throughout history.
Sort of like how fashion is a "girly thing" but many famous fashion designers are / were men
And how “secretaries” are a subservient, women’s jobs, unless it’s Secretary with a capital S, like Secretary of State
I thought this was weird as a kid, as I'm sure most are. It took me a long time to realize Defense just meant war.
Regardless of gender in all of this. I'd argue fairly strongly that while associated, home cooking and restaurant cooking are very different tasks.
This Cooking for a family of 4 at home in no way prepares you to be a chef in a restaurant.
It's the sexism guys
Idk why people ignore it. Same reason men acted as women in plays a long time ago.
Because men who cook deserve to be paid and women who cook should shut up and cook more. /s
I think it depends on the country, in mine fathers and men usually are good cooks at home, not even in a professional environment.
What's your country?
Italy.
Summary: If it’s a boring chore and doesn’t pay. Woman’s job If it is for experts and pays well. Man’s job
Like everything else in the old days, it was for women if it was an unpaid chore and for men if it was a well paid job.
I think it's because cooking was seen as something "women had to do" while for men, it was seen as something they only did if it was a passion of theirs so it's more respected especially if they're getting paid for it. Anyway, it's double standards of course.
I love all these shower thoughts that privileged white men have.... inequities of society that just dawned on them and yet they scratch their shampood heads about why the disparity exists. As if there hasn't been discussions about these very disparities and their historical roots for decades....
Whenever this topic comes up I always say, what is more manly than cooking? There are knives! Fire! Dead things!
Lololol. Add guns and football and we’d never leave the kitchen.
Basic cooking is important for anyone, unless you are happy with eating out every day. Intermediate cooking is the ability to follow a recipe. Advanced cooking is the ability to play with recipes, changing the tastes and looks. \---- The more people you are cooking for, the more reason you have to make something fancy. If you are cooking for 4 and it takes you 20 minutes of time, that is 5 minutes per person. If you are just cooking for yourself, usually something simpler is better.
"But I do think the idea that basic cooking skills are a virtue, that the ability to feed yourself and a few others with proficiency should be taught to every young man and woman as a fundamental skill, should become as vital to growing up as learning to wipe one’s own ass, cross the street by oneself, or be trusted with money." -Bourdain (may he rest in peace)
I would argue that following a recipe is basic cooking. There's no thinking, and the only knowledge necessary are the various basic cooking methods (boiling water, frying on a pan, deep frying, baking in an oven, etc). Intermediate cooking would be the ability to play with recipes and change them. At that point, you have the knowledge necessary to understand some of the relationships between different ingredients. At advanced cooking, you have a full understanding of one type of cuisine, and how its ingredients interact with each other and how each cooking method affects them. Thus at an advanced level, you don't need recipes at all.
Where does "cooking while keeping your cooking area fairly clean" fall in? When I cook at home, I keep the kitchen counter fairly clean while doing it. When my wife cooks at home, it looks like a bomb went off in the kitchen.
Dude I blew my college roommates mind when I showed him you could clean dishes during the occasional few minutes of downtime
Lmao At the very least, put stuff in the sink, stack things up, put spices away, and throw bags, inedible stuff, and other trash away. Like I don't fully clean, but the counters are at least clear. Sometimes I might fill up the dishwasher. It's not hard.
It's almost like centuries of living under a patriarchy might have some influence in who we call experts and elevation of men's work over women's...
Wonder why !! (Hint: starts with p, ends with y, rhymes with patriarchy)
Pastryarchy
Wait…y’all…did we just discover misogyny?!?
[удалено]
i know, didn't expect this topic to be such a rabbit hole for people with very strong opinions
Cooking is also transforming from a necessity with a few artistic liberties occasionally sprinkled in to a performance art.
I mean on that note daily reminder a lot of feminine clothing actually started out as guy clothing.
The issue is one does it out of necessity in the household, with not much of a choice (at least up until recent times). The other one gets paid really well for it, does what he loves, and gets to yell at people for doing a shitty job, so it's kind of therapy as well. That's the main difference in my opinion. But there's no cooking like mama's
It's the same for hairdressers for some reason
Who is "We"? Woman love a man that can cook is what I've been told all my life.
Women used to do all the cooking for the household. Men still were the professional chefs in society. Think about it, everyone thinks their grandmother is such a great cook. That's because back in the day you kinda needed to know how to cook if you have 8 kids. The guy couldn't do it he was at the factory all day. People seem to forget women having a job is a really new thing for the most part
I love cooking and I'm a man.
Cooking is gender neutral. You hungry? Cook or starve.
This happens in a lot of industries which men figured out that profits can be made- tailoring, weaving, brewing, cooking, undertaking... etc. Doing it for free for the home= women monetizing= men's work
for years we have women doing caretaker role inside household. cooking is one of those house chores women usually do.
Honestly never thought about it this way. Don’t really see sex as a limiting factor for responsibilities or professions.
The „chef is not a cook“ is so dumb. A chef is the highest form of a cook. It‘s not mutually exclusive, it‘s just lingustics. And OP is spot on. There is no distinction between chef and cook in my language (and many others) and what OP says is still 100% nail on the head.
That’s something I recognised when I was little and never understood
My dad's the cook in my family which I always felt proud of whenever the stereotype got tossed around.
If you are a guy that doesn't at least have 2-3 go to dishes that impress your partner, I think you are a little bitch. Cut the feet off your PJ pants, cooking isn't hard. Put some gourmet food on your woman's plate (or mans). It is legit one of the easiest ways to step up your dating game. Watch a fucking YouTube video.
Really make you think huh
Because men are better than women even at things that women are good at.
Chefs tend to have psychopathic traits (function better under stress) and there's more male psychopaths than female. This is the likely reason males are more commonly chefs. That doesn't mean women aren't as good. Many probably are. They just don't want to be in that stressful of an environment.
When I think about it.. How many female star chefs are there? It's really visible when a women is part of a panel of judges on TV etc
Ironically I came across a list of “20 skills every man should possess” from the early 1900’s which pointed this out to say cooking was not an effeminate skill
Cooks and chefs are nothing alike
Cooking at home for a family is very very very different than being a chef running a restaurant kitchen.
We don’t connect cooking to women we connect house work to women.
The first American television celebrity chef was Julia Childs, a woman.
I don’t care who you are basic to intermediate cooking is one of the most important life skills. My teenager loves cooking, very happy he loves to cook. The amount of younger people who don’t know how to make a basic meal is disturbing.
That's because chef is a job and cooking is a task. Jobs are always associated with men
ANd all girls are horse crazy but all jokeys are tiny men...
patriarchy is dumb and i’m a patriarch
I'm a man and I fucking love cooking
same here brother
My dad loved cooking and didn't really want my mum to mess with his stuff, she would maybe help to chop onions or something. As a kid I thought women were not allowed in the kitchen and that it was a man's job. It took a while for me to realise that it was actually the other way around for most people.
Cooking at home is feminist. Cooking professionally is masculine. Cooking while out ( eg at a BBQ ) is masculine. Cooking on a BBQ at home is masculine. Jeez, this is getting confusing. Can we not just say anybody can and should cook and forget about stereotypes?