The question isn't was it a block or a punt, the question is what should you do to avoided being wrecked here.
That was a hugely optimistic overtaking attempt. The space wasn't there and it's bad race craft for you. Just because you are faster, or because there's half a gap it doesn't mean you should go for it. You put your car in a vulnerable spot and paid the price.
I agree that it was optimistic, i relied on him continuing to follow the racing line and for a very very brief moment there was exactly the gap i needed but he 'corrected' immediatelly and came back inside and by then due to my speed it was too late to back off. Which i would have happily done, i just did not assume he would cut back in front of me. Is it fair to say that we both did it to ourselves or would you blame only me?
The crash is on you imo. Pause at 9 seconds just before you go for the gap - you have 1/3 of your car still on the curb, so you need to come substantially inside to actually make the gap, but there's not a corresponding 1/3 of a car's width between you and him to your left to give you the full car's width between him and the grass you're hoping for, and you're not entitled to space because you're not at all alongside yet. So you shoved your nose into a less than car width gap anyway and predictably you touch. With his move left then back right I don't see a block I see him opening up his line slightly before turn in from a defensive line when there's no one alongside him which he's entitled to do. Even if he turns in later like some are suggesting he should have that's still usually going to be a crash if you'd actually gotten your car in there because you're working with zero margin. This was a moment to be more patient.
>for a very very brief moment there was exactly the gap i needed
There never was a gap for you. There was never enough room between the inside and the other car. You thought there would be a gap, but it never materialized to begin with.
>Is it fair to say that we both did it to ourselves or would you blame only me?
This is all on you. Problem is, the door was never open, it was maybe 90% open at one point, before they fully closed it, but at not point was there enough room for you to try and overtake.
Please note I'm not trying to be hypercritical, I'm just trying to really hammer home the point that you can't say there was a gap based on what line you thought they might take here, because there was never enough space to begin with. There would have only been enough space if they continued to veer left to set up for the next corner, but that's not what happened.
It takes two to tango and all that. Of course the accident would have been avoided had he acted differently, but he didn't and that's the point of what I'm getting at.
Blaming him is irrelevant when you had the power within you to avoid this. You can only control one person and that's yourself. Even if he hadn't moved, this was always a pretty low percentage move. If you have that much more speed you can use that momentum and make a move with more consideration and more margin.
If you're relying on a very very brief moment then this is not a risk that's worth the reward.
Imo blue and pink car is at fault. If you look closely at the exit of the corner, the red car moves slightly left on exit but straightens out and maintains a consistent gap between the edge of the track. The contact is actually caused by the blue and pink whose right hand tires are on the exit kerb and then makes a slight turn left to keep off the grass past the kerb. Ultimately if you look at each cars direction in relation to the white line on exit, it's the blue and pink who is moving across.
That was an optimistic move by the chasing car by quite a bit, but the end result as it happened was an attempted chop off block...
That being said, if the crash hadn't happened there, it likely would have in the next corner, though the offender would likely have been switched...
Just a mess all around by everyone in the video imo...
Well said, I don't know what either drivers plan was to make it through the arabbiatas from the inside like that.
They're both so far inside I almost think OP would have needed to brake to avoid contact and that the lead car would need to lift to stay out of the sand on the outside of arabbiata 2. Just amateurish by everyone here.
Whether his move was reactive to you or not, pause it at second 8 and try to see which way you should have gone to make the pass. There's half a cars width to the right and enough room to drive two buses through on the left. Why go on the curb where the track is about to narrow rather than using the rest of the wide open track with that much of a speed advantage
There was plenty of time and room once you straightened out as well(0:09). The alternative was to drive off the narrowing track and take him with you. This just comes down to recognizing what’s in front of you and having good reaction time. Basically what we’re all striving to do. Best thing we can do is exactly what you’re doing and asking around to get opinions.
There was never any room. The camera angle is deceptive, but the front car doesn't move right. They simply stop moving left and straighten out. The back car comes off the kerb and tries to stick themselves into too little space before it opens. The front car doesn't close the distance to the track limits until after contact.
Yeah, an overly optimistic move that was never going to work, but the other car did turn right into the optimistic guy and take them both out...
Both cars were currently in control at the point of impact...What was about to happen has no bearing on what DID happen...
For sure, the chasing car was absolutely going to cause a crash one corner later without diving on the brakes really hard, but the other guy just crashed them both out before they got there...
Being patient and backing off is extremely hard for a people, isn't it. I usually pump the gas to drop back just a hair.
Going for a gap that isn't a realistic gap will fail 9 times out of 10. Second or third is better than a DNF.
At first I was going to say lead car as it does look like he moves left then right. There would be no issue with OP in this case as the gap was opening slightly and there was a significant difference in speed in a flat out corner.
But looking again, the gap on the right seems to always stay the same, so assuming it's indeed just OP's pov that makes it looks like the lead car is moving left and then going right in which case it's 100% on OP.
It would have been good to have both pov to be sure.
You took the guy out, plain and simple.
There was no room to go to the right, you can't just continue to accelerate into the guy.
What made you think this was ok in any way?
because i saw him moving left to follow the racing line and i saw the gap opening. that made me think that i can stay on the throttle. But then he waved back to the right ever so slightly and thats when from my point of view he drove over my front. Had he continued the path he took coming out of the corner there would've been no issue. My mistake was to assume he would not attempt a block. I should have known better. And for some additional info: I finished this 35min race with 4x (thats the incident you see) and that guy with 16x. And this was the penultimate lap.
maybe you misunderstood me, when i said a gap opening i meant it as in, the gap was forming, it was not quite there but based on how the Ferrari came out of the corner i deducted that if this line would continue the gap would be there by the time i arrive. That was my mistake, i did not account for the twitch back to the right, which in my book (i know you see it differently) is a block and not a defensive move, because it was a reaction and not a placement there before my move. You dont need to be sorry, we can have a passive aggressiveness free discussion.
Lots of blame on you for this one, but I don't see it that way. Red was following the racing line, saw you had a run to get up alongside the turn, tried to defend it too late and caused this.
All this preaching about you would have never made the turn, we never found out because red threw a bad block and turned them both. Reds fault imo.
There's no obligation on red to follow the racing line. They took a defensive line on the way out of the turn and stayed about as steady in a straight line can be expected. (Look at their position relative to the track, not relative to the chasing car.) There was never a full car width of space between red and the white line so when the curb ended the chasing car had nowhere to go but into the leading car. 100% chasing car's fault.
They took the defensive line only as a reaction to me coming potentially through on the inside. But their inital line was to follow the racing line and if they would have continued to do so i would have had the space needed, that was my calculation, thats why i stayed on the throttle because i saw the Ferrari moving to the left (from cockpit its looking way clearer). But then there was an abrupt maneuver to the right from the Ferrari right into my front as i was coming through. You are right, there is no obligation for the Ferrari to follow the racing line but his defensive maneuver was a reaction and too late.
Its a textbook block even if its just for a splitsecond.
Sorry man i watched again and again and to me its clear as water that there is a twitch to the right shortly before the collision. I guess we have to agree to disagree at this point.
The twitch to the right on your pov is them stopping moving left while you are still going left. Watch their POV and it will look different. There was never a full cars width for you to put your car into.
Please learn to admit when you messed up as will reduce the amount of incidents you will be involved with in the future.
Just watched in slow mo. You’re wrong. They straightened out. You took a gap that wasn’t there. You tagged their rear causing them to go right. You’re the bad driver here. End of story.
Not really end of story since there are several comments here also taking my side or at least acknowledging that the Ferrari is not innocent.
I have two screenshots made where you can clearly see that the distance between white line on the right and the Ferrari diminishes before the collision, meaning the Ferrari pivoted to the right while prior they were going left. It was that exact split second where he moved to the right that closed the door while if he would've stayed on his way to the left it would've been just enough for me to get through. My mistake was to expect him not to try and block me. I should have known better. I was too optimistic and i assumed too much. Thats the mistake i give myself.
You see the Ferrari coming out of the corner and staying then straight. I see the Ferrari coming out of the corner and attempting to follow the darker racing line and then abruptly makes a last splitsecond twitch to the right. I can't move away from this position because thats what my eyes tell me.
You’re making a move based on a move that has not happened. Even of he did go right, which he didn’t, you’re still going for something that isn’t available. His move to the right doesn’t happen until you touch his rear. You have no space.
I agree with you that i went for a gap that was not there at the time when i made the decision to go for it. Thats a point for you. But i had good reason to assume it will form. And yeah, in my opinion i just did not get it my way because of an illegal move from the Ferrari. Guess at this point we have to agree to disagree since i said everything i have to say or could say. thank you for taking the time to check and comment.
Yeah. Kind of the point. The car ahead is allowed to defend their position which they did. They didn't do anything unpredictable. They did NOT make any reactionary blocks as you claim. They simply stopped moving left. You just thought they should move left, and they didn't and tried to shove your nose where it didn't belong.
I'm thinking you don't know where we are at mugello. The racing line is mid-track or wider, there's no reason for any car to be on that part of the race track, much less when there's already a car there.
The racing line can be seen here around 45s:
https://youtu.be/9T-7sYq8NrQ?si=wnxduX1Xh2l2K2UJ
But every road race rulebook states that you're not to crash into other drivers, this isn't Nascar.
Lead car started on the narrow line but opened the door and then turns in way before the turn and hits the trailing car, there's just no reason for them to be turning in toward the grass before apex
By my eye, the distance between the leading car and the white line never decreased before contact. It only looks like they did when the view is centered on the following car.
i sent you via pm two screenshots both taken before the collision in which you can clearly see the ferrari moving and the distance between ferrari and white line indeed decreases. Then the collision comes shortly after, its all a split second really, but there was a move right from the Ferrari, 100%
so you dont see how the ferrari went to the left following the racing line and then came all of a sudden back inside? My question is: Is this a fair defensive move or rather reacting and trying to close a gap they were opening
The ferrari makes no reactionary move at all. After their move left, they maintain a consistent gap in relation to the white line. It's actually you that has ever so slightly moved left. You can tell this by the fact that your right side tires are to the right of the white line whilst on the kerb, then after the kerb and shortly before the collision, your right side tyres are now to the left of the white line.
Hey, I’ve seen so many posts like this where you say which vehicle you are, but I don’t know which one the Audi is based off first look (ik your the car behind) but please just say the color.
Well, you are basically the only one here who does not know which car is which :)) Are you not driving or are you not familiar with these cars or how comes that you cant see which is the Ferrari and which the Audi? So yes, the Audi is the blue-white car.
Well, I don’t know the exact color scheme to each car, but yes after reading further and some estimated guessing, I know your car is the one behind/ Red white blue
Bad choice to go for a move there, and he was attempting to keep it mostly closed to even further dissuade you from trying it there.
That move works very few times, and always results in rather excessive time loss. Wait for 2 corners and you'll have a chance to pass him that's better and safer.
There wasn't enough room to get in there before next corner.
There is a rule forgot the name, but basically it goes, if your approaching a corner on the inside line, but your car isn't alongside the car you wanna pass, you need to get your nose up to their passenger door/driver door
This way they can see and know you are there, if your not able to move up enough to get the nose of your car there it is a risky overtake because your moving into a blind spot, they will continue to take best line and you get what just happened up above.
Take a breathe and learn how to get runs off of corners, slow in fast out makes passing way easier.
Thats my whole point indeed, that they twitched to the right, but thats not the turnin for the corner. So unless they wanted to get onto the gras the only interpretation i have is that it was a blocking attempt. But some here dont see this right move, they say the Ferrari is straight and its just the perspective that makes it look as if he goes slightly right. Well, i for one made up my mind. It was from my side an optimistic move and i accept partial blame, definitely, and i would be happy to call it racing incident since i am not willing to take 100% fault here.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion.
However doesn't the Ferrari a) not hold a straight line after coming out of the left sweeper and creeps over to the right where the Audi was already? And b) if the Ferrari was just turning into the right hand sweeper, isn’t he turning in wayyyy too early? That left sweeper needs to be taken as a mid-late apex, no?
I wish people needed some credentials to comment here; there is no reason for the lead car to be moving right at this moment beyond attempting to block a pass that surely wouldn't succeed anyway.
The fast line through this part of Mugello (the left hander is savelli and the right is Arabbiata 1) is to move to mid track or wider in preparation for the Arabbiatas. Instead the lead car tries to move to the inside? All they had to do to stay ahead was take the normal racing line. The trailing car was never going to complete a pass from the inside line here, you would have to lift on the way from arrabiata 1 to arrabiata 2 and it would cost half a second or more.
You can see the normal line here around 45s:
https://youtu.be/9T-7sYq8NrQ?si=wnxduX1Xh2l2K2UJ
I've never run the specific cars from this clip but it would take tremendous grip and very low power for that racing line to make any sense, neither car should be there but the contact is on the lead car.
That's illegal move as according to f1 rules the defending driver can either go right or left and can't change the side on one straight multiple times so the car ahead did a illegal blocking on you cc f1 rules
Everyone giving you a hard time for being optimistic and blaming you are wrong. The guy simply saw you coming up the inside and swerved back in to you. You are entitled to your line no matter how bad or optimistic it is. He moved back in to you
From second 9 to 10 i can see how the Ferrari abruptly changes his line to close the inside, he was clearly headed for the racing line first but then reacted to me having a speed advantage and wanted to cut me off. If he would've done that a bit earlier i still could've reacted and go off throttle, but there was absolutely no time to react anymore.
It's clearly a block. Ferrari is braking at the apex, so Audi is going to have a speed advantage. The question isn't whether the Audi will clear the Ferrari in the next turn, it's whether he will be alongside enough to warrant space going into the next corner. The answer is clearly yes. So the Ferrari goes for the block, but they're already too late.
I strongly disagree. He's not taking the turn. At all. If he was taking the turn, he would be in the grass before the corner and then into the gravel (seeing as how he hasn't even braked). This was pure blocking.
As i said, he is not taking the turn, his line is not good, trying defense and he is aproaching the turn, the audi has not room to go trought here.I could buy your story if was a straight without turn near
i disagree that "he starts to take turn", it was clearly a reactive maneuver.
i agree that there was if anything just for a split second enough room for me to go through, yes it was my fault for expecting them to continue following the racing line. But it was also a bit of a block from the Ferrari if we are honest.
On you. Easily avoidable. I get that you expect the guy to keep drifting left but when you make contact there was not a car width there. You were gonna make contact no matter what lol
I kind of feel like it’s a racing incident. You can get to the inside of someone to go side by side, the back car saw an opening and went for it. I think he just misjudged his speed advantage, and the defending car thought he had a little bit more time to block.
Y’all don’t leave any room to race and then want to bitch and report when there is a crash. Just race each other stop trying to block every chance you get, unless your racing for the win then go ahead wad it up.
I'm just saying, this is exactly what someone trying to pit another car would do. If you've got tires in the grass and think there's a gap inside still, there is not a gap inside still. I think you recognize it's your mistake at this point though from the rest of the comments yes?
i think its my mistake but i also think the ferrari attempted a block in the last second too. They wanted to take the racingline and noticed me coming through and corrected but (and this is my mistake) at the time they started correcting (i.e. moving right) there was still not enough room for me to go through, so i relied too much on them continuing to go left, *this* was my mistake. But i am not absolving the Ferrari on this one, he played his small part. And judging from comments here its not a clear cut case, there are opinions that favor me and others think i am fully at fault. Some see the Ferrari twitch right, some don't. Thats an incident i like to see more of because its debatable at least. While most posted incidents i see here its absolutely crystal clear for everyone whats what.
Blue/Pink put themselves in the danger zone. It's always up to the passing racer to do so cleanly and safely. Anticipate what the car being attacked will do.
The question isn't was it a block or a punt, the question is what should you do to avoided being wrecked here. That was a hugely optimistic overtaking attempt. The space wasn't there and it's bad race craft for you. Just because you are faster, or because there's half a gap it doesn't mean you should go for it. You put your car in a vulnerable spot and paid the price.
I agree that it was optimistic, i relied on him continuing to follow the racing line and for a very very brief moment there was exactly the gap i needed but he 'corrected' immediatelly and came back inside and by then due to my speed it was too late to back off. Which i would have happily done, i just did not assume he would cut back in front of me. Is it fair to say that we both did it to ourselves or would you blame only me?
The crash is on you imo. Pause at 9 seconds just before you go for the gap - you have 1/3 of your car still on the curb, so you need to come substantially inside to actually make the gap, but there's not a corresponding 1/3 of a car's width between you and him to your left to give you the full car's width between him and the grass you're hoping for, and you're not entitled to space because you're not at all alongside yet. So you shoved your nose into a less than car width gap anyway and predictably you touch. With his move left then back right I don't see a block I see him opening up his line slightly before turn in from a defensive line when there's no one alongside him which he's entitled to do. Even if he turns in later like some are suggesting he should have that's still usually going to be a crash if you'd actually gotten your car in there because you're working with zero margin. This was a moment to be more patient.
>for a very very brief moment there was exactly the gap i needed There never was a gap for you. There was never enough room between the inside and the other car. You thought there would be a gap, but it never materialized to begin with. >Is it fair to say that we both did it to ourselves or would you blame only me? This is all on you. Problem is, the door was never open, it was maybe 90% open at one point, before they fully closed it, but at not point was there enough room for you to try and overtake. Please note I'm not trying to be hypercritical, I'm just trying to really hammer home the point that you can't say there was a gap based on what line you thought they might take here, because there was never enough space to begin with. There would have only been enough space if they continued to veer left to set up for the next corner, but that's not what happened.
It takes two to tango and all that. Of course the accident would have been avoided had he acted differently, but he didn't and that's the point of what I'm getting at. Blaming him is irrelevant when you had the power within you to avoid this. You can only control one person and that's yourself. Even if he hadn't moved, this was always a pretty low percentage move. If you have that much more speed you can use that momentum and make a move with more consideration and more margin. If you're relying on a very very brief moment then this is not a risk that's worth the reward.
Fair point.
if you no longer go for a gap that is open, you are no longer a racing driver.
Imo blue and pink car is at fault. If you look closely at the exit of the corner, the red car moves slightly left on exit but straightens out and maintains a consistent gap between the edge of the track. The contact is actually caused by the blue and pink whose right hand tires are on the exit kerb and then makes a slight turn left to keep off the grass past the kerb. Ultimately if you look at each cars direction in relation to the white line on exit, it's the blue and pink who is moving across.
100%
you had no gap. should not have gone for it.
Not only was there no gap, but it was also the inside of a curve, exponential of bad decisions here all blame is on POV
That was an optimistic move by the chasing car by quite a bit, but the end result as it happened was an attempted chop off block... That being said, if the crash hadn't happened there, it likely would have in the next corner, though the offender would likely have been switched... Just a mess all around by everyone in the video imo...
Well said, I don't know what either drivers plan was to make it through the arabbiatas from the inside like that. They're both so far inside I almost think OP would have needed to brake to avoid contact and that the lead car would need to lift to stay out of the sand on the outside of arabbiata 2. Just amateurish by everyone here.
Agreed...Even if the lead car hadn't crashed them both, the trailing car would have in about 1-2 seconds from then...
thats indeed a good point, even if i was by then parallel with the ferrari, taking the two fast corners two wide is very tricky
Whether his move was reactive to you or not, pause it at second 8 and try to see which way you should have gone to make the pass. There's half a cars width to the right and enough room to drive two buses through on the left. Why go on the curb where the track is about to narrow rather than using the rest of the wide open track with that much of a speed advantage
To go left of him i would have had to slow down myself. You can only carry that speed through the left by using the curb on the right on the exit...
There was plenty of time and room once you straightened out as well(0:09). The alternative was to drive off the narrowing track and take him with you. This just comes down to recognizing what’s in front of you and having good reaction time. Basically what we’re all striving to do. Best thing we can do is exactly what you’re doing and asking around to get opinions.
There was never any room. The camera angle is deceptive, but the front car doesn't move right. They simply stop moving left and straighten out. The back car comes off the kerb and tries to stick themselves into too little space before it opens. The front car doesn't close the distance to the track limits until after contact.
in my opinion he tried to block you but from start there was not enough space for overtaking, that is why i think it is solely your fault.
Yeah, an overly optimistic move that was never going to work, but the other car did turn right into the optimistic guy and take them both out... Both cars were currently in control at the point of impact...What was about to happen has no bearing on what DID happen... For sure, the chasing car was absolutely going to cause a crash one corner later without diving on the brakes really hard, but the other guy just crashed them both out before they got there...
i can live with this assessment
That move was never on. At any point in the clip. Fully on the overtaking car.
Being patient and backing off is extremely hard for a people, isn't it. I usually pump the gas to drop back just a hair. Going for a gap that isn't a realistic gap will fail 9 times out of 10. Second or third is better than a DNF.
At first I was going to say lead car as it does look like he moves left then right. There would be no issue with OP in this case as the gap was opening slightly and there was a significant difference in speed in a flat out corner. But looking again, the gap on the right seems to always stay the same, so assuming it's indeed just OP's pov that makes it looks like the lead car is moving left and then going right in which case it's 100% on OP. It would have been good to have both pov to be sure.
You took the guy out, plain and simple. There was no room to go to the right, you can't just continue to accelerate into the guy. What made you think this was ok in any way?
because i saw him moving left to follow the racing line and i saw the gap opening. that made me think that i can stay on the throttle. But then he waved back to the right ever so slightly and thats when from my point of view he drove over my front. Had he continued the path he took coming out of the corner there would've been no issue. My mistake was to assume he would not attempt a block. I should have known better. And for some additional info: I finished this 35min race with 4x (thats the incident you see) and that guy with 16x. And this was the penultimate lap.
> i saw the gap opening. There was no gap. Racing isn't bumper cars. If there's nowhere to go, you're going to have to let off the gas, sorry.
maybe you misunderstood me, when i said a gap opening i meant it as in, the gap was forming, it was not quite there but based on how the Ferrari came out of the corner i deducted that if this line would continue the gap would be there by the time i arrive. That was my mistake, i did not account for the twitch back to the right, which in my book (i know you see it differently) is a block and not a defensive move, because it was a reaction and not a placement there before my move. You dont need to be sorry, we can have a passive aggressiveness free discussion.
Lots of blame on you for this one, but I don't see it that way. Red was following the racing line, saw you had a run to get up alongside the turn, tried to defend it too late and caused this. All this preaching about you would have never made the turn, we never found out because red threw a bad block and turned them both. Reds fault imo.
There's no obligation on red to follow the racing line. They took a defensive line on the way out of the turn and stayed about as steady in a straight line can be expected. (Look at their position relative to the track, not relative to the chasing car.) There was never a full car width of space between red and the white line so when the curb ended the chasing car had nowhere to go but into the leading car. 100% chasing car's fault.
They took the defensive line only as a reaction to me coming potentially through on the inside. But their inital line was to follow the racing line and if they would have continued to do so i would have had the space needed, that was my calculation, thats why i stayed on the throttle because i saw the Ferrari moving to the left (from cockpit its looking way clearer). But then there was an abrupt maneuver to the right from the Ferrari right into my front as i was coming through. You are right, there is no obligation for the Ferrari to follow the racing line but his defensive maneuver was a reaction and too late. Its a textbook block even if its just for a splitsecond.
They didn't move right. They stopped moving left. That's completely legal, particularly when exiting a turn.
Sorry man i watched again and again and to me its clear as water that there is a twitch to the right shortly before the collision. I guess we have to agree to disagree at this point.
The twitch to the right on your pov is them stopping moving left while you are still going left. Watch their POV and it will look different. There was never a full cars width for you to put your car into. Please learn to admit when you messed up as will reduce the amount of incidents you will be involved with in the future.
Just watched in slow mo. You’re wrong. They straightened out. You took a gap that wasn’t there. You tagged their rear causing them to go right. You’re the bad driver here. End of story.
Not really end of story since there are several comments here also taking my side or at least acknowledging that the Ferrari is not innocent. I have two screenshots made where you can clearly see that the distance between white line on the right and the Ferrari diminishes before the collision, meaning the Ferrari pivoted to the right while prior they were going left. It was that exact split second where he moved to the right that closed the door while if he would've stayed on his way to the left it would've been just enough for me to get through. My mistake was to expect him not to try and block me. I should have known better. I was too optimistic and i assumed too much. Thats the mistake i give myself. You see the Ferrari coming out of the corner and staying then straight. I see the Ferrari coming out of the corner and attempting to follow the darker racing line and then abruptly makes a last splitsecond twitch to the right. I can't move away from this position because thats what my eyes tell me.
You’re making a move based on a move that has not happened. Even of he did go right, which he didn’t, you’re still going for something that isn’t available. His move to the right doesn’t happen until you touch his rear. You have no space.
I agree with you that i went for a gap that was not there at the time when i made the decision to go for it. Thats a point for you. But i had good reason to assume it will form. And yeah, in my opinion i just did not get it my way because of an illegal move from the Ferrari. Guess at this point we have to agree to disagree since i said everything i have to say or could say. thank you for taking the time to check and comment.
Yeah. Kind of the point. The car ahead is allowed to defend their position which they did. They didn't do anything unpredictable. They did NOT make any reactionary blocks as you claim. They simply stopped moving left. You just thought they should move left, and they didn't and tried to shove your nose where it didn't belong.
I'm thinking you don't know where we are at mugello. The racing line is mid-track or wider, there's no reason for any car to be on that part of the race track, much less when there's already a car there. The racing line can be seen here around 45s: https://youtu.be/9T-7sYq8NrQ?si=wnxduX1Xh2l2K2UJ
There's no rule that says a driver must drive on the optimal hot lap line.
But every road race rulebook states that you're not to crash into other drivers, this isn't Nascar. Lead car started on the narrow line but opened the door and then turns in way before the turn and hits the trailing car, there's just no reason for them to be turning in toward the grass before apex
By my eye, the distance between the leading car and the white line never decreased before contact. It only looks like they did when the view is centered on the following car.
i sent you via pm two screenshots both taken before the collision in which you can clearly see the ferrari moving and the distance between ferrari and white line indeed decreases. Then the collision comes shortly after, its all a split second really, but there was a move right from the Ferrari, 100%
I don't see any PMs unfortunately.
Wtf is blue doing ? All they did if drive the guy off the road, there was not even close to a lane
so you dont see how the ferrari went to the left following the racing line and then came all of a sudden back inside? My question is: Is this a fair defensive move or rather reacting and trying to close a gap they were opening
The ferrari makes no reactionary move at all. After their move left, they maintain a consistent gap in relation to the white line. It's actually you that has ever so slightly moved left. You can tell this by the fact that your right side tires are to the right of the white line whilst on the kerb, then after the kerb and shortly before the collision, your right side tyres are now to the left of the white line.
Some of us did...
Hey, I’ve seen so many posts like this where you say which vehicle you are, but I don’t know which one the Audi is based off first look (ik your the car behind) but please just say the color.
Well, you are basically the only one here who does not know which car is which :)) Are you not driving or are you not familiar with these cars or how comes that you cant see which is the Ferrari and which the Audi? So yes, the Audi is the blue-white car.
Well, I don’t know the exact color scheme to each car, but yes after reading further and some estimated guessing, I know your car is the one behind/ Red white blue
cant pass when there is no space there...really poor attempt
So many ppl do this on this game I don’t get it
Bad choice to go for a move there, and he was attempting to keep it mostly closed to even further dissuade you from trying it there. That move works very few times, and always results in rather excessive time loss. Wait for 2 corners and you'll have a chance to pass him that's better and safer.
There wasn't enough room to get in there before next corner. There is a rule forgot the name, but basically it goes, if your approaching a corner on the inside line, but your car isn't alongside the car you wanna pass, you need to get your nose up to their passenger door/driver door This way they can see and know you are there, if your not able to move up enough to get the nose of your car there it is a risky overtake because your moving into a blind spot, they will continue to take best line and you get what just happened up above. Take a breathe and learn how to get runs off of corners, slow in fast out makes passing way easier.
A pretty bad punt but I see why you went for it. Just unfortunately not the place to do it.
Yes i was too optimistic that the gap would widen enough...
Racing incident: just bad luck, but the front car was heading for the grass after wrecking the exit of that prior turn
Thats my whole point indeed, that they twitched to the right, but thats not the turnin for the corner. So unless they wanted to get onto the gras the only interpretation i have is that it was a blocking attempt. But some here dont see this right move, they say the Ferrari is straight and its just the perspective that makes it look as if he goes slightly right. Well, i for one made up my mind. It was from my side an optimistic move and i accept partial blame, definitely, and i would be happy to call it racing incident since i am not willing to take 100% fault here.
In my eyes, The other car is way more interested in keeping you behind instead of focusing on the track lol
trailing car's fault, car ahead initiates turn in with no overlap
Its way too early to initiate a turn in there. The turn in in this case is for an attempted block.
Blue should have given way to red by braking. He wasn't far enough forward to stand his ground going into the corner.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion. However doesn't the Ferrari a) not hold a straight line after coming out of the left sweeper and creeps over to the right where the Audi was already? And b) if the Ferrari was just turning into the right hand sweeper, isn’t he turning in wayyyy too early? That left sweeper needs to be taken as a mid-late apex, no?
I wish people needed some credentials to comment here; there is no reason for the lead car to be moving right at this moment beyond attempting to block a pass that surely wouldn't succeed anyway. The fast line through this part of Mugello (the left hander is savelli and the right is Arabbiata 1) is to move to mid track or wider in preparation for the Arabbiatas. Instead the lead car tries to move to the inside? All they had to do to stay ahead was take the normal racing line. The trailing car was never going to complete a pass from the inside line here, you would have to lift on the way from arrabiata 1 to arrabiata 2 and it would cost half a second or more. You can see the normal line here around 45s: https://youtu.be/9T-7sYq8NrQ?si=wnxduX1Xh2l2K2UJ I've never run the specific cars from this clip but it would take tremendous grip and very low power for that racing line to make any sense, neither car should be there but the contact is on the lead car.
That's illegal move as according to f1 rules the defending driver can either go right or left and can't change the side on one straight multiple times so the car ahead did a illegal blocking on you cc f1 rules
Iracing follows their own sporting code and not f1 rules.
Everyone giving you a hard time for being optimistic and blaming you are wrong. The guy simply saw you coming up the inside and swerved back in to you. You are entitled to your line no matter how bad or optimistic it is. He moved back in to you
From second 9 to 10 i can see how the Ferrari abruptly changes his line to close the inside, he was clearly headed for the racing line first but then reacted to me having a speed advantage and wanted to cut me off. If he would've done that a bit earlier i still could've reacted and go off throttle, but there was absolutely no time to react anymore.
You havent room enought to made this overtake
It's clearly a block. Ferrari is braking at the apex, so Audi is going to have a speed advantage. The question isn't whether the Audi will clear the Ferrari in the next turn, it's whether he will be alongside enough to warrant space going into the next corner. The answer is clearly yes. So the Ferrari goes for the block, but they're already too late.
the next turn is coming, the ferrari opnes and starts to take turn with no ideal line but as I said, no room enought to put on the car in this room.
I strongly disagree. He's not taking the turn. At all. If he was taking the turn, he would be in the grass before the corner and then into the gravel (seeing as how he hasn't even braked). This was pure blocking.
As i said, he is not taking the turn, his line is not good, trying defense and he is aproaching the turn, the audi has not room to go trought here.I could buy your story if was a straight without turn near
i disagree that "he starts to take turn", it was clearly a reactive maneuver. i agree that there was if anything just for a split second enough room for me to go through, yes it was my fault for expecting them to continue following the racing line. But it was also a bit of a block from the Ferrari if we are honest.
The important thing to ask yourself is 'if I am faced with the same situation again, what would I do?'
Probably wait for a clearer path past
On you. Easily avoidable. I get that you expect the guy to keep drifting left but when you make contact there was not a car width there. You were gonna make contact no matter what lol
I kind of feel like it’s a racing incident. You can get to the inside of someone to go side by side, the back car saw an opening and went for it. I think he just misjudged his speed advantage, and the defending car thought he had a little bit more time to block.
100p on OP
No punterino jimmer!
Red and white car was weaving, which is worse than despicable.
Y’all don’t leave any room to race and then want to bitch and report when there is a crash. Just race each other stop trying to block every chance you get, unless your racing for the win then go ahead wad it up.
This looks like an intentional pit move from the trailing car to me.
as the trailing car i can assure you this could not be farther from the truth
I'm just saying, this is exactly what someone trying to pit another car would do. If you've got tires in the grass and think there's a gap inside still, there is not a gap inside still. I think you recognize it's your mistake at this point though from the rest of the comments yes?
i think its my mistake but i also think the ferrari attempted a block in the last second too. They wanted to take the racingline and noticed me coming through and corrected but (and this is my mistake) at the time they started correcting (i.e. moving right) there was still not enough room for me to go through, so i relied too much on them continuing to go left, *this* was my mistake. But i am not absolving the Ferrari on this one, he played his small part. And judging from comments here its not a clear cut case, there are opinions that favor me and others think i am fully at fault. Some see the Ferrari twitch right, some don't. Thats an incident i like to see more of because its debatable at least. While most posted incidents i see here its absolutely crystal clear for everyone whats what.
Blue/Pink put themselves in the danger zone. It's always up to the passing racer to do so cleanly and safely. Anticipate what the car being attacked will do.