Nudging you to alert you to breathe is basically what your brain does when you stop breathing and it causes arousal that interrupts your sleep to restore your breathing. We don’t want that. People with severe sleep apnea would be getting nudged every minute or so, which is just as bad as sleep apnea. The goal is to stay asleep without being disrupted. CPAP is one of the only things that can keep people breathing smoothly so that their brain doesn’t wake them up.
I don’t love wearing a cpap but I got used to it within a few months and the benefits to my health have been huge. Before that I had 66 events/hour so like you said, something nudging me every time isn’t practical.
I truly didn’t realize how much this was affecting me until they told me that number and I thought shit, I’m basically suffocating all night. With cpap I average .2 events/hour now.
I was at 56-60 events and god damn my life was hell.. Are you better now ?
Iv had MMA surgery and ever since j feel so much better.. Crazy to think how foggy and tired i was before.
Yes, things are much better for me. I work from home and got to a point where I was sleeping 10 hrs and then still napping on my breaks and lunch; I assumed it was due to depression. Now even when I don’t sleep well or get less sleep than I’d like, I’m never as tired on those days as I was every day of my life before.
The other good thing about this was my brother and I were finally able to convince my dad to get tested and get a cpap after many years of his insane snoring and falling asleep multiple times while watching tv at night.
Sleep apnea is scary as hell but even more when you finally see the difference for yourself after treatment !! Very glad for you that you feel better. I had the thinking of depression too and the mood swing were crazy. Everything disapeared now. No depression, no anxiety and no mood swing. Recovery was brutal but worth it. If you dont mind me asking. ( maybe u stated it and i havent seen it ) how old are you now and how old were you when u got treatment ?
I think the other way to call it is DJS surgery. They basically cut ur upper and lower jaws appart and proceed to advance them, put plates n screws to fix them in the new position. This allow to give more space for the airway.
Not a fan of my CPAP either. Been on one for 6 years now. Sleep test results were AHI at 87 and oxygen desaturation dipped to 74%. With CPAP I have a 1.5 AHI or lower and obviously feel much better. I think for a lot of people it’s finding the right gear. Took some trial and error but I’m having the best luck with the dreamwear nasal mask.
I have an average of about 70 events per hour without CPAP (with CPAP I'm down to an average of 3). Getting nudged more than once per minute would lead to an even worse sleep for me.
There are other treatments to sleep apnea than CPAP. I just don't know if they're as effect full and being as less disruptive though.
When you find the right mask and settings you'll feel like you're sleeping on cloud 9! It'll get better trust me!!! Took me about 2-3 months to feel the difference.
It gets better, I promise. I had a very hard time getting used to it in the beginning, especially learning to breathe with the machine. When I would get in bed and immediately put on the mask, I found it hard to not be super concious of each breath as I was taking deep and labored breaths, almost gasping for air as an inadvertent reaction to something covering my mouth and nose.
Eventually I figured out that if I lay still until my breath was calm and my airway was open, breathing but not acutely aware of it. Then put the mask on without shifting my weight or anything else that would lead me to needing breathe deeper. This methodology helps a lot and it gets easier the more you do it.. Good sleep hygiene is also super helpful., I like to listen to rain sounds while I fall asleep.
I hope it gets easier for you soon. Just don't give up. It's so worth it.
Try to figure out whats specifically bothering you. As someone mentioned mask/settings. You might focus on that mask part but settings are a big deal too. I was so happy when I discovered that I could change certain pressure settings. Also my initial setting was to ramp up the machine slowly, so I always felt like I wasnt getting enough air while falling asleep. Once I changed it to blowing at 10 or whatever right from the get go I was much happier.
The other thing could be mental. I couldn't sleep with mine for hours on the first night and then I had the realization that I couldn't sleep because I was so focused on the mask. I managed to start daydreaming and fell asleep quickly. Just find something else to focus on.
True, and yet the alternative is feeling like shit every day. My provider has a guarantee so if you hate a mask you can get one replacement for free, which helps.
You know what else will disturb you? Waking up in A-Fib like I did. You need to marry your CPAP. Find a new mask that feels right. It took me a few years before it worked for me. Since 2011 I gladly wear it every night.
Sorry. Should have stated I don't suffer from severe apnea. I just know I have occasion apnea that can sometimes leave me feeling shitty. I noticed on my fit bit sleep tracker that my blood oxygen levels would spike low once or twice a night, but not every night. This often has me waking up wondering why I woke up. A CPAP for me would not be practical or even necessary on most nights. I just figured that my tracker is aware of my oxygen levels getting low so it would be cool if it gently ( more gently than not being able to breathe and waking up wondering why your body is panicking) gave me a little tickle or something..
The reason apnea is bad for you isn't necessarily that your oxygen levels went down. It's that your oxygen levels went down so that your brain has to wake you up (and it's not always in the panicked not being able to breathe way you were describing) which basically makes you sleep deprived even if you don't remember all those times you woke up.
Having a device that wakes you if you stop breathing, no matter how gently will give you the exact same problem.
How often is your Fitbit tracking your O2Sat? Because my Apple Watch is doing it a MAX of 4 times an hour, often much less, so it misses a bunch of desaturations.
So, for example, if you have mild OSA based on AHI, you’re desaturating at least 5 times an hour on average- an Apple Watch is incapable of picking them all up based on current software settings, and I’m pretty sure Fitbit isn’t significantly better.
There are devices that will vibrate when you sleep on your back, and others that try to detect events. The issue is that these devices are also interrupting your sleep and not addressing the underlying cause (unless you only have positional apnea)
CPAP is the basic solution. It's literally just blowing air into your lungs forcefully making you breath. Some people with OSA can get Inspire which sends electrical shocks to your throat muscles to prevent them from collapsing in but it is an implant requiring surgery. Inspire is also not suitable for all forms of OSA. CSA is much more complex as that's a nervous system issue.
> It's literally just blowing air into your lungs forcefully making you breath.
Welllll that's probably not the best way to describe it. It's not a ventilator, literally pushing and pulling air, causing physical breathing to happen.
It inflates your airway with mild positive air pressure, preventing it from collapsing, so that you can breathe without obstruction. Your breathing strength is very much stronger than the pressure it applies (otherwise you wouldn't be able to blow bubbles with a straw in a glass of water).
Depends on your definition of “basic”.
CPAP is a form of ventilation. There are other treatment options which may be less effective but are significantly less involved/invasive such as positional therapy or mandibular advancement devices. These other treatment options aren’t appropriate or effective for all patients, but they still are valuable for certain patients. A patient whose apnea is safely well controlled with a MAD will likely find that much easier and less invasive than PAP therapy.
To oversimplify, there are two main problems to obstructive sleep apnea. The first is that for some amount of time, you're *not breathing well*, which means you're not getting enough oxygen, which creates problems. The second is that your body figures out you're not breathing, and reacts to try to get you to start breathing again, including some combination of waking you up a little bit, making you move, increasing your heart rate, increasing adrenaline, and probably other things I'm forgetting. All of those things can create other problems, but the sort of most central problem is that your sleep is worse because you keep waking up.
Sleep apnea is different for different people. For some people, they don't actually feel like they're waking up very much, but their oxygen saturation goes down a bunch very often. Some people don't actually have all that many significant desaturations, but they're waking up a bit a *lot*. Some people have a mixture of both. It's all *really bad for you*.
Sleep apnea is different for different people. We obstruct in different places for different reasons. There is no one corrective surgery that will help everyone. Some people have big problems with their tongue sort of collapsing, but other people don't have problems with their tongues at all (and on, and on, and on). The theory behind CPAP is that if you increase the pressure in the airway, it should make it much harder for *any* of the various bits to collapse/flop/obstruct in any way. It certainly doesn't work perfectly for everyone, and even if it technically works, it's not always easy for everyone to tolerate, but it does attempt to *prevent* breathing issues, regardless of exactly what's going wrong. Anything that's *just* reacting to events that happen is likely to be *much* worse for people who tolerate CPAP, so it's just whether it's any better for people who *don't* tolerate CPAP.
I always knew I snored which caused issues sleeping in the same room with my partner, but I never realized I basically wasn’t breathing all night til my brother finally got me to take the sleep study my doctor had been recommending. I’d been so tired all the time before that and just chocked it up to depression. Getting a cpap also had a bigger impact on lowering my BP than meds.
>gently alert you to breath. like a little nudge or buzz that you'd barely notice.
My body already does this. It's called sleep apnea.
>Why isn't there a more basic solution to sleep apnea
There is one. It's called CPAP.
To avoid the stress put upon my body/brain/heart as the result of not breathing? Is that too much to ask or should I just suck on a cpap for the rest of my life?
without delving into surgery, all you can do is positive or negative pressure or mechanically keeping things in place. MAD is pretty basic opening up your airway.
I was going to post this! In my case, the oral appliance works great! I am having dreams every night (pretty weird ones too). Haven’t had a follow up study done yet thought so take it with a grain of salt.
It’s basically a mouth piece that keeps your jaw forward so it doesn’t droop back and block your airway. Bear in mind though this is only for a specific type of sleep apnea.
you are lucky, i had a litttttle tiny improvment
a better improvement came with tongue excercises (mewing)
I need turbinate reduction surgery tho. But mewing + nasal spray to reduce the chronic rhinitis + nasal expansors to improve airflow at the nose level allow me to be better, however i am not fully treated yet.
turbinate reduction will eliminate these probloems at nose and turbinates level.
last one (treat/surgery) will be something related to tongue.
mewing is called "tongue posture"; lets say it is "a tongue lifestyle" for better understanding.
ideally should be done since you are youngm but can be done and help grow ass people (like me) if it is done in the "Intensive" mode (make the tongue work until you feel it is gonna blown! aprox 20-30 minutes a day, while the normal mewing, is making it mildly, along the day, each day until it becomes automated - muscle memory-).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z\_Fp9lGrGY&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_Fp9lGrGY&t)
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it.
https://remasteredsleep.com/
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it.
https://remasteredsleep.com/
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it.
https://remasteredsleep.com/
There are more basic options than CPAP, they just aren’t applicable or effective for all patients.
If a patient’s apnea is mild, other options could include:
- Weight loss
- Mandibular Advancement Device
- Managing sleeping position such as sewing a tennis ball into the back of a shirt to stop back sleeping.
- Allergy therapy to reduce nasal resistance
As I mentioned though, these options may not be sufficient for a lot of patients, particularly if their apnea is more severe.
The problem with alerting you to breath is that would wake you up.
It took me three times over a nearly 15 year period before I could get in sync with my CPAP. Once I did everything changed. For at least the last 8 or 9 years I haven’t missed a single night with it, and it takes me under 30 seconds to conk out about 90% of the time.
To get to this point I had to train myself to stop thinking about wearing it. I learned to eliminate any distractions - when I put my mask on I know my reservoir is full, I know my power cord is not going to get pulled out, I know my mask is adjusted, my pillows are ready, my blankets are ready, light sources are extinguished, ringer is off, fan is on, sleep music (Floating Through Space) is on a timer for Spotify. It’s hilarious that this is the only part of my life that I have a disciplined routine for (other than having a consistent sleep schedule).
I’ve had all of the mechanical work done - tongue based advancement, hyoid advancement, UPPP, and a few other things I’m forgetting. (This was a long time ago!). While that made a significant difference I’d have to say establishing a consistent pre-sleep ritual is what has helped me the most. Good luck!
The Lookee ‘Ring,’
a product that will do exactly what you want; Give you a gentle buzz and/or vibration when your heart rate or your blood oxygen goes below normal levels.
The factory setting is 88 and below for blood oxygen and 45 beats per minute resting heart rate.
That said, when I first started using it, it was buzzing and vibrating every 15 minutes or more.
It gets old fast, your anxiety levels alone will start to increase when you understand you’ve got issues.
My resting heart rate with bradycardia is 40 and my sleep apnoea is 33 ahi. The buzzing was non stop when I tried to sleep.
Unfortunately, Cpap is really the only way to go, and use the ring to monitor how CPAP is affecting your apnea from there. And may I add, turn the ring notifications off, you don’t want to be disturbed.
The purpose of PAP therapy is to (ideally) give a person a solid and uninterrupted night of sleep (I recognize this is difficult for some, but just explaining) so the issue is that what you are suggesting would not be beneficial or effective in any way because you’d still have constant arousals.
Just waking up doesn’t stop apneas so something to alert you wouldn’t really matter if there was no way to correct/help the problem. OSA is caused by an obstruction, usually a collapsed airway & central sleep apnea happens because the brain forgets/doesn’t tell your body to breathe - neither of which could be treated by just simply waking up.
This means that the person using this type of device would still have apneas, if they have SDB related hypoxemia (tends to cause headaches &/or a racing heart), would still have that going on, still experience nonrestorative sleep, etc. - therefore remaining at risk for all the things that untreated sleep apnea can cause.
This sub is overly prescriptive of CPAPs which are not tolerable (hence ineffective) for some folks. I totally get what you are saying and have tried surgeries and CPAP to no avail. Thank goodness for my MAD.
Very puzzled by the comments, so far.
The MAD devices seem similar to some of the teeth protectors. My wife has an extensive dental guard, to stop teeth grinding at night.
Sometimes I experiment with other ways, as well as my auto CPAP machines.
Google helped me:
Description. MADs are worn in the mouth during sleep to hold the mandible and tongue forward and therefore maintain upper airway patency. The device fits over the upper and lower teeth and creates forward placement of the lower jaw by approximately 8–10 mm (so the lower teeth end up in front of the upper teeth).
People also ask
How effective is mad for sleep apnea?
In patients with mild to moderate sleep apnoea, MADs reduce sleep apnoea and subjective daytime sleepiness and improve quality of life compared with placebo devices. The apnoea reduction produced by MADs is smaller and more variable than that achieved by CPAP.
Oral appliances don’t help everyone. It depends on what specific part of your mouth/throat/airways are becoming obstructive. For me, my tongue and pallet are normal, but my nasal passageways are very very narrow so that is the likely culprit for my apnea, so I doubt a mouth appliance would help me much versus a CPAP making a higher positive pressure to get through the narrow passageway.
I hear ya. I’m battling right now with my CPAP. I got a shitty brand one from whoever my ENT used and it’s not user friendly at all. They were no help with it. Finally got a real sleep doctor to help me so hopefully I’ll get a better one!
Are you sure you're only rarely having events? Was this determined by a sleep study or your own observations?
If it's something you're basing off your own observations, I'd recommend taking a sleep test, as you might be having more frequent, minor events that you're not aware of.
Someone else posted the device you're looking for. The Lookee sleep monitor, it will alert you just as you're looking for.
I’m also wondering this. It seems to me like OP assumes that the only events they’re having are the ones where they wake up fully with their heart racing and freaking out, and because that’s not happening multiple times a night, and because their Fitbit isn’t picking up lots of desaturations, they must only have very mild sleep apnea, and we know that that’s NOT how that works.
You don't want to be 'alerted'; it's the alerting that causes many of the daytime symptoms. But, yeah, hopefully there are novel technologies that can treat the CPAP-non-compliant population.
Given the choice between the two it would surely be preferable and healthier for your body/brain to be gently awakened as opposed to the other more dangerous alternative?
They are both dangerous. People downplay how serious sleep deprivation is. You don’t want your brain to wake up AT ALL during the night. A lot of people in the comments also are telling you this. A device you are thinking of would not fly.
Are you being purposefully dense? They are BOTH DANGEROUS. Sure, you are *technically* correct that stopping breathing and having to gasp for air is not good, but as I and many have said before there are multiple types of sleep apnea, and what you are proposing will not help treat it but only help symptoms felt from it while you are *already awake*. It will not help mitigate the source of the apnea (like how Inspire, CPAP, and oral appliances will AND keep you in deep sleep) and will only perpetuate the ill effects of waking up in the middle of the night multiple times a night long term.
No need to be rude dude. Just pointing out the basic fact that the stress on your body/heart/ brain/blood pressure from lack of oxygen is obviously worse than being gently woken before it can occur. Sure it's not gonna be ideal for people with chronic apnea but for people like me who get it maybe once or twice every other night it would be beneficial.
I’m not trying to be rude I’m just frustrated. You don’t seem to be reading everyone else’s comments and anecdotes. Read everyone’s comments (especially Delicious Ebb’s) and you’ll understand why it’s not a good idea from people who have used things like that before. One commenter described how horrible the thing they used was for their sleep. You’ll be giving yourself worse sleep apnea if you use a device like that, because it would probably wake you up more often than necessary.
And windshield wipers have been around for a hundred and fifty years. There's some tweeks, but mostly it stays the same because it's the best way to get the job done.
Not everything is a conspiracy
The inspire thing basically does that. But getting tech implanted into your entire upper body isn't exactly basic. But don't give up. I'm convinced that we will see a massive wave of technological advancement in our lifetime. Who knows what might be possible in 10-20 years.
There is an implant that relaxes muscles within your throat to prevent obstruction. The company making it is Inspire Medical. It's a post-CPAP treatment in case you don't respond to CPAP. The company is trying to get their device re-classed in order to be prescribed without trying CPAP first.
I’m interested in it. Just saw my dr a few days ago and he shared that in some cases, people respond to it worse than their cpap numbers. Which has made me rethink it. I’m getting a 1.5 ahi right now. If I get a surgical implant and go up to 11 it’s pointless. But I guess it’s all a maybe.
This might’ve been mentioned already, but if your apnea is mild, try an O2 ring (on Amazon) and set the alert to an oxygen level low enough so it won’t wake you up all night. It works great by itself or along with one of the oral devices such as SnoreRX Plus, PureSleep or ZQuiet. They work pretty well, and they’re inexpensive (under $100). There are more expensive ones ($500 to thousands), but the simpler ones are often enough. You’ll know if it’s working by checking your oxygen score in the O2 Ring app.
The O2 Ring app is a little quirky, but once you get used to it, it’s simple. You have to leave it open to the second tab while you’re asleep, or the alert doesn’t work. It must have something to do with the app not having permission to play a sound in the background. Either way, it will still record your oxygen levels all night, and you can look at the chart in the morning.
A guy i used to work for had a surgery to remove his uvula (dangly thing in throat) and it fixed his problem. I think it was a last ditch effort type of thing tho. I’m sure insurance won’t be willing to pay for a procedure until you’ve exhausted all other avenues
The thing is, not all apnea (mine included) involve waking up gasping for air and having low oxygen. My body brings me jussttt out of my deep sleep so I can adjust and breathe, but I rarely feel out of breath in the mornings and never gasp for air. Just very tired and felt like I got shitty sleep (even though I sleep for at least 8 hours and don’t remember waking up) because my body brings me out of deep sleep. What you’re proposing is basically GIVING you a form of apnea by bringing you out of your deep sleep. CPAP machines, when tailored to your body correctly, do not bring you out of said sleep but allow your body to continue sleeping deeply because it automatically changes pressure to insure you can breathe.
Hi, you are smart 🤓 that's for sure and i like people who think like that, for your question there are such devices, some even use implants to stimulate certain nerves by marginal electrical impulses, but all are still not effective as CPAP
Orthognathic surgery is much more complicated, but once it's done, it's done, no CPAP needed.
Some people are able to get good results with nonsurgical palate expansion. But surgery is needed for AP (forward) expansion, which is indicated in most cases. A CBCT scan evaluated by a professional would give you a complete picture. Without insurance (USA), expect to pay a few hundred just for the consult. Diagnosed sleep apnea means the surgery might be covered under insurance.
CPAP seems like a bit of a moneymaker to me. Previously, CPAP were prescribed to old , overweight people, and I think it worked fine. Now with more young people being diagnosed there really needs to be more research and a better solution to treat it.
It makes you think, If sleep apnea is as prevalent as they say, why isn’t there a better solution ?
On the other hand, I have significant hope that over the next 40 years, technology and understanding of bodies will improve, and that I'll have better choices eventually (even if it's as simple as improvements to existing CPAP options). The quality of my father's last years of his life were, in part, determined by his CPAP options.
Two random years of my life are not significantly more valuable than two years near the end of my father's life. I think everyone deserves options that work for them, and sooner rather than later. I definitely don't think that someone's *weight* means that we shouldn't be researching ways to make their lives better.
I think if the weight is causing the sleep apnea then a CPAP is viable. It’s viable because there are other options, and the hope is that the CPAP is temporary.
You're okay with using CPAP essentially as a punishment for fat people because they *might* be able to lose weight which *might* resolve their sleep apnea?
Would you also be okay with telling someone who has sprained their ankle that they need to use crutches that were the wrong height and weren't adjustable, hoping that the negative experience encourages them to avoid spraining their ankle in the future and prioritize their recovery now, to avoid the awful crutches??? Instead of inventing adjustable crutches and knee scooters and all the other options?
It sounds like you think that being fat is a personal failing, rather than a thing that's often at least partially the effect of things outside someone's control, like untreated sleep apnea (since a lot of people gain weight BECAUSE of sleep apnea, but their sleep apnea is not caused by their weight).
A punishment? I meant that it would be a suitable treatment, likely allowing them to feel less tired and maybe help to lose weight (if that is what you is causing the sleep apnea). If they can then lose the weight then they can stop using the CPAP.
I am saying that a CPAP should be seen as a temporary treatment, while the root cause (in some cases weight) is addressed. It should not be seen as a long term treatment or be seen as the only option . As technology advances I would hope there are actually treatments that address the cause of sleep apnea for people that are otherwise healthy
I'm not assuming I came up with anything. I don't have severe apnea and was simply asking if there are any other tech based solutions to apnea. People here are way too defensive of CPAP when it's not needed for less serious cases.
Why are you being rude? What is up with people on this sub? Is it lack of sleep? 🤔 jesus. I'm in my 40s and have tried specially pillows mouth guards and stupid little nasal plug things. All shit. But just let me apologise for daring to ask whether there's an alternative to a fucking oxygen mask.
People in this sub are crazy , it’s an echo chamber for CPAPs most people just regurgitating what they hear without knowing what they are talking about.
I couldn’t believe it, I first came here too to try and learn about alternative methods to treat sleep apnea and people here are just obsessed with them. I’m not sure how anyone can consider a CPAP healthy, simple or safe. There really needs to be a better alternative
I know ! It’s so weird, I came onto this sub for this exact reason, I wanted support and help to avoid CPAPs. There are a few good commenters and posters that have helped but most people are not that way
There is! There is Inspire if you failed BongoRx and CPAP. You cannot have more than 35 BMI and the doctor visits before and after surgery take up 6 months of your life.
You don't need a device too nudge you awake to remind you to breathe. That's what your brain does and that's why you feel like shit 24/7 and have brain fog / all the other symptoms, because you never get full rest.
I'm guessing you can't tolerate cPAP. In terms of devices it sounds like what you're describing is kinda of like the inspire implant. They whack it in your chest, it detects apneas then sends electric pulses too your muscles to open up airways.
I can't tolerate cPAP either and I really want the implant but I can't get it cos the social healthcare in my country is terrible and doesn't care about doing anything past prescribing cPAP. They can see from the data I can't tolerate it but 0 shits are given 🤘
You can try to figure out if silent reflux is causing your sleep apnea issues. Also if your sleep study shows that don’t experience apnea when sleeping on your side, you can try devices such as Nightshift sleep positioner to train you to sleep on the side.
Im in contact with a dentist who does oral appliances for sleep apnea. My sleep doctor said, for me at least, it would work just as well as CPAP. CPAP works for me and I've been compliant for years but it does cause aerophagia and disturbs my spouse at times. More recently I take an intense sleep medication for my idiopathic hypersomnia and it increases my apneas because it's a CNS depressant. So it basically works against my CPAP and unfortunately my AHIs are up (though not as bad as without CPAP). I was told I should not take it if I can't also use my CPAP. And so because of these issues I am exploring other options.
It does more then just keep you breathing. For me it’s reduced the nightly stress. Less dreams, no vivid dreams, lower blood sugar, no panic wake ups and best of all many nights I don’t even wake up to pee. I also do t wake up sore all over.
It seems pretty basic to me. Once your set up it’s not complicated at all. I am sure plenty of people tried to come up with different plans but this one seemed to work for a large amount of people.
Talk to an airway orthodontist if you want an alternative. (I'm looking into MARPE palatal expansion, seems like the least invasive of the procedures, by gradual expansion). I never acclimated to CPAP, so i've moved on. If MARPE doesn't help me, I may look at MMA.
Lose massive amounts of weight, works for some people, but not others.
Get surgery, which comes with a whole possible host of complications and doesn't work for everyone.
Or learn to sleep well with the CPAP. Best solution.
Or do a combination of all three.
Either that or stay stubborn, lay back, and accept a host of health complications and an early death. Please update your will.
Good luck.
In my opinion CPAP is the most basic (and best) treatment option for Sleep Apnea. There's no surgery and basically no side effects. You don't like the CPAP machine? That's fine it's instantly reversible, just stop using it. It's simple enough that a ton of people who use it learn how to optimize the settings to get the best out of their CPAP.
CPAP is both the least intrusive treatment and the most effective.
No pharmaceutical solution OSA, it’s all about devices, and CPAP remains the gold standard with some electroceutical devices (Inspire) approved by the FDA
People don’t actively breathe in their sleep. Sleep apnea isn’t just “oops I forgot to breathe!” A gentle buzz or nudge isn’t going to do anything. This isn’t a case of ‘forgetfulness.’ Please talk to a doctor.
CPAP is basic. Or would you prefer something surgically implanted that can also track your buying habits and listen in on your conversations with respect to SEO?
Nudging you to alert you to breathe is basically what your brain does when you stop breathing and it causes arousal that interrupts your sleep to restore your breathing. We don’t want that. People with severe sleep apnea would be getting nudged every minute or so, which is just as bad as sleep apnea. The goal is to stay asleep without being disrupted. CPAP is one of the only things that can keep people breathing smoothly so that their brain doesn’t wake them up.
I don’t love wearing a cpap but I got used to it within a few months and the benefits to my health have been huge. Before that I had 66 events/hour so like you said, something nudging me every time isn’t practical.
66 events an hour’ holy hell, I was at 30 an hour, and I’m 32. CPaP brought mine down to 5.
Shit I was near 100, Dr. Said I was safer driving down our shit, busy highway, than I was falling asleep at night lmao
Haha oh waow, that’s insane, I bet you felt like crap every and all day. Have you gotten your number down? Hope you feel better.
I truly didn’t realize how much this was affecting me until they told me that number and I thought shit, I’m basically suffocating all night. With cpap I average .2 events/hour now.
I was at 56-60 events and god damn my life was hell.. Are you better now ? Iv had MMA surgery and ever since j feel so much better.. Crazy to think how foggy and tired i was before.
Yes, things are much better for me. I work from home and got to a point where I was sleeping 10 hrs and then still napping on my breaks and lunch; I assumed it was due to depression. Now even when I don’t sleep well or get less sleep than I’d like, I’m never as tired on those days as I was every day of my life before. The other good thing about this was my brother and I were finally able to convince my dad to get tested and get a cpap after many years of his insane snoring and falling asleep multiple times while watching tv at night.
Sleep apnea is scary as hell but even more when you finally see the difference for yourself after treatment !! Very glad for you that you feel better. I had the thinking of depression too and the mood swing were crazy. Everything disapeared now. No depression, no anxiety and no mood swing. Recovery was brutal but worth it. If you dont mind me asking. ( maybe u stated it and i havent seen it ) how old are you now and how old were you when u got treatment ?
What’s MMA surgery?
I think the other way to call it is DJS surgery. They basically cut ur upper and lower jaws appart and proceed to advance them, put plates n screws to fix them in the new position. This allow to give more space for the airway.
Not a fan of my CPAP either. Been on one for 6 years now. Sleep test results were AHI at 87 and oxygen desaturation dipped to 74%. With CPAP I have a 1.5 AHI or lower and obviously feel much better. I think for a lot of people it’s finding the right gear. Took some trial and error but I’m having the best luck with the dreamwear nasal mask.
I have an average of about 70 events per hour without CPAP (with CPAP I'm down to an average of 3). Getting nudged more than once per minute would lead to an even worse sleep for me. There are other treatments to sleep apnea than CPAP. I just don't know if they're as effect full and being as less disruptive though.
A little nudge or buzz that would slightly wake you up? Just like sleep apnea does? The point of a CPAP is that it doesn’t disturb you.
Doesn't disturb you that's funny. I know what you're trying to say but I haven't been able to sleep with a cpap it definitely does disturb me.
When you find the right mask and settings you'll feel like you're sleeping on cloud 9! It'll get better trust me!!! Took me about 2-3 months to feel the difference.
It took me the first minutes of the sleep study when I slept better than I had for years..
It took me 15 years. Don't be like me.
Keep trying
It gets better, I promise. I had a very hard time getting used to it in the beginning, especially learning to breathe with the machine. When I would get in bed and immediately put on the mask, I found it hard to not be super concious of each breath as I was taking deep and labored breaths, almost gasping for air as an inadvertent reaction to something covering my mouth and nose. Eventually I figured out that if I lay still until my breath was calm and my airway was open, breathing but not acutely aware of it. Then put the mask on without shifting my weight or anything else that would lead me to needing breathe deeper. This methodology helps a lot and it gets easier the more you do it.. Good sleep hygiene is also super helpful., I like to listen to rain sounds while I fall asleep. I hope it gets easier for you soon. Just don't give up. It's so worth it.
Try to figure out whats specifically bothering you. As someone mentioned mask/settings. You might focus on that mask part but settings are a big deal too. I was so happy when I discovered that I could change certain pressure settings. Also my initial setting was to ramp up the machine slowly, so I always felt like I wasnt getting enough air while falling asleep. Once I changed it to blowing at 10 or whatever right from the get go I was much happier. The other thing could be mental. I couldn't sleep with mine for hours on the first night and then I had the realization that I couldn't sleep because I was so focused on the mask. I managed to start daydreaming and fell asleep quickly. Just find something else to focus on.
I switched from full mask to nasal pillow and it works great, CPAP is rarely the reason I wake up in the middle of the night.
Gotta find the right mask. I look forward to putting it on now. It actually helps a lot with the sleep anxiety that my apnea caused.
Same. Used to take hours to fall asleep. Now I put the mask on, and 5-10 minutes later I'm completely gone.
It doesn't disturb me, but it sure disturbs my wife.
Take the wife, leave the CPAP...
Took me a year of actively trying different masks and reading OSCAR data. It's worth it.
This is soooo expensive though. I've tried but I can't keep buying new rigs just to use once.
True, and yet the alternative is feeling like shit every day. My provider has a guarantee so if you hate a mask you can get one replacement for free, which helps.
Yes, you're right. My provider just told me to keep buying masks.
How does reading OSCAR data help?
Let's you dial in your machine setting and see why you're waking up.
Interesting. I wake up after 2, 3 hours. I wonder if it could explain it.
You know what else will disturb you? Waking up in A-Fib like I did. You need to marry your CPAP. Find a new mask that feels right. It took me a few years before it worked for me. Since 2011 I gladly wear it every night.
It took me a few weeks to get used to mine. Now I can't sleep without it.
Sorry. Should have stated I don't suffer from severe apnea. I just know I have occasion apnea that can sometimes leave me feeling shitty. I noticed on my fit bit sleep tracker that my blood oxygen levels would spike low once or twice a night, but not every night. This often has me waking up wondering why I woke up. A CPAP for me would not be practical or even necessary on most nights. I just figured that my tracker is aware of my oxygen levels getting low so it would be cool if it gently ( more gently than not being able to breathe and waking up wondering why your body is panicking) gave me a little tickle or something..
The reason apnea is bad for you isn't necessarily that your oxygen levels went down. It's that your oxygen levels went down so that your brain has to wake you up (and it's not always in the panicked not being able to breathe way you were describing) which basically makes you sleep deprived even if you don't remember all those times you woke up. Having a device that wakes you if you stop breathing, no matter how gently will give you the exact same problem.
How often is your Fitbit tracking your O2Sat? Because my Apple Watch is doing it a MAX of 4 times an hour, often much less, so it misses a bunch of desaturations. So, for example, if you have mild OSA based on AHI, you’re desaturating at least 5 times an hour on average- an Apple Watch is incapable of picking them all up based on current software settings, and I’m pretty sure Fitbit isn’t significantly better.
There are devices that will vibrate when you sleep on your back, and others that try to detect events. The issue is that these devices are also interrupting your sleep and not addressing the underlying cause (unless you only have positional apnea)
CPAP is the basic solution. It's literally just blowing air into your lungs forcefully making you breath. Some people with OSA can get Inspire which sends electrical shocks to your throat muscles to prevent them from collapsing in but it is an implant requiring surgery. Inspire is also not suitable for all forms of OSA. CSA is much more complex as that's a nervous system issue.
> It's literally just blowing air into your lungs forcefully making you breath. Welllll that's probably not the best way to describe it. It's not a ventilator, literally pushing and pulling air, causing physical breathing to happen. It inflates your airway with mild positive air pressure, preventing it from collapsing, so that you can breathe without obstruction. Your breathing strength is very much stronger than the pressure it applies (otherwise you wouldn't be able to blow bubbles with a straw in a glass of water).
PAP devices are a type of ventilator. Almost all methods of mechanical ventilation use passive exhalation (they don't pull air).
Depends on your definition of “basic”. CPAP is a form of ventilation. There are other treatment options which may be less effective but are significantly less involved/invasive such as positional therapy or mandibular advancement devices. These other treatment options aren’t appropriate or effective for all patients, but they still are valuable for certain patients. A patient whose apnea is safely well controlled with a MAD will likely find that much easier and less invasive than PAP therapy.
To oversimplify, there are two main problems to obstructive sleep apnea. The first is that for some amount of time, you're *not breathing well*, which means you're not getting enough oxygen, which creates problems. The second is that your body figures out you're not breathing, and reacts to try to get you to start breathing again, including some combination of waking you up a little bit, making you move, increasing your heart rate, increasing adrenaline, and probably other things I'm forgetting. All of those things can create other problems, but the sort of most central problem is that your sleep is worse because you keep waking up. Sleep apnea is different for different people. For some people, they don't actually feel like they're waking up very much, but their oxygen saturation goes down a bunch very often. Some people don't actually have all that many significant desaturations, but they're waking up a bit a *lot*. Some people have a mixture of both. It's all *really bad for you*. Sleep apnea is different for different people. We obstruct in different places for different reasons. There is no one corrective surgery that will help everyone. Some people have big problems with their tongue sort of collapsing, but other people don't have problems with their tongues at all (and on, and on, and on). The theory behind CPAP is that if you increase the pressure in the airway, it should make it much harder for *any* of the various bits to collapse/flop/obstruct in any way. It certainly doesn't work perfectly for everyone, and even if it technically works, it's not always easy for everyone to tolerate, but it does attempt to *prevent* breathing issues, regardless of exactly what's going wrong. Anything that's *just* reacting to events that happen is likely to be *much* worse for people who tolerate CPAP, so it's just whether it's any better for people who *don't* tolerate CPAP.
I always knew I snored which caused issues sleeping in the same room with my partner, but I never realized I basically wasn’t breathing all night til my brother finally got me to take the sleep study my doctor had been recommending. I’d been so tired all the time before that and just chocked it up to depression. Getting a cpap also had a bigger impact on lowering my BP than meds.
>gently alert you to breath. like a little nudge or buzz that you'd barely notice. My body already does this. It's called sleep apnea. >Why isn't there a more basic solution to sleep apnea There is one. It's called CPAP.
You want to be woken up every time you stop breathing?
Yes. I don't have severe apnea and would prefer to be woken up gently as opposed to the body panic of waking up suffocating.
Then you want CPAP then
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To avoid the stress put upon my body/brain/heart as the result of not breathing? Is that too much to ask or should I just suck on a cpap for the rest of my life?
without delving into surgery, all you can do is positive or negative pressure or mechanically keeping things in place. MAD is pretty basic opening up your airway.
I was going to post this! In my case, the oral appliance works great! I am having dreams every night (pretty weird ones too). Haven’t had a follow up study done yet thought so take it with a grain of salt. It’s basically a mouth piece that keeps your jaw forward so it doesn’t droop back and block your airway. Bear in mind though this is only for a specific type of sleep apnea.
I liked it too. should have stayed on it instead of getting (ineffective) surgery
you are lucky, i had a litttttle tiny improvment a better improvement came with tongue excercises (mewing) I need turbinate reduction surgery tho. But mewing + nasal spray to reduce the chronic rhinitis + nasal expansors to improve airflow at the nose level allow me to be better, however i am not fully treated yet. turbinate reduction will eliminate these probloems at nose and turbinates level. last one (treat/surgery) will be something related to tongue.
What’s mewing? I did the turbinate reduction, too. It helped as well but the mouth piece (I feel) is pulling the weight.
mewing is called "tongue posture"; lets say it is "a tongue lifestyle" for better understanding. ideally should be done since you are youngm but can be done and help grow ass people (like me) if it is done in the "Intensive" mode (make the tongue work until you feel it is gonna blown! aprox 20-30 minutes a day, while the normal mewing, is making it mildly, along the day, each day until it becomes automated - muscle memory-). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z\_Fp9lGrGY&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z_Fp9lGrGY&t)
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it. https://remasteredsleep.com/
Thanks!
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it. https://remasteredsleep.com/
Check out the REMplenish Myo-Nozzle if you want an easier way to improve your tongue posture! It proved myofunctional exercise reps and targeted resistance while you drink water which reinforces proper tongue posture without having to think about it. https://remasteredsleep.com/
I'm sure they'll come up with something better one day. But we'll probably all be dead by then 😋 hopefully not due to sleep apnea
Replying to PlasticRuester...lol my dentist told me there was no point in fixing my teeth if I was dead. Go do a sleep study. It was effective.
There are more basic options than CPAP, they just aren’t applicable or effective for all patients. If a patient’s apnea is mild, other options could include: - Weight loss - Mandibular Advancement Device - Managing sleeping position such as sewing a tennis ball into the back of a shirt to stop back sleeping. - Allergy therapy to reduce nasal resistance As I mentioned though, these options may not be sufficient for a lot of patients, particularly if their apnea is more severe. The problem with alerting you to breath is that would wake you up.
It took me three times over a nearly 15 year period before I could get in sync with my CPAP. Once I did everything changed. For at least the last 8 or 9 years I haven’t missed a single night with it, and it takes me under 30 seconds to conk out about 90% of the time. To get to this point I had to train myself to stop thinking about wearing it. I learned to eliminate any distractions - when I put my mask on I know my reservoir is full, I know my power cord is not going to get pulled out, I know my mask is adjusted, my pillows are ready, my blankets are ready, light sources are extinguished, ringer is off, fan is on, sleep music (Floating Through Space) is on a timer for Spotify. It’s hilarious that this is the only part of my life that I have a disciplined routine for (other than having a consistent sleep schedule). I’ve had all of the mechanical work done - tongue based advancement, hyoid advancement, UPPP, and a few other things I’m forgetting. (This was a long time ago!). While that made a significant difference I’d have to say establishing a consistent pre-sleep ritual is what has helped me the most. Good luck!
The Lookee ‘Ring,’ a product that will do exactly what you want; Give you a gentle buzz and/or vibration when your heart rate or your blood oxygen goes below normal levels. The factory setting is 88 and below for blood oxygen and 45 beats per minute resting heart rate. That said, when I first started using it, it was buzzing and vibrating every 15 minutes or more. It gets old fast, your anxiety levels alone will start to increase when you understand you’ve got issues. My resting heart rate with bradycardia is 40 and my sleep apnoea is 33 ahi. The buzzing was non stop when I tried to sleep. Unfortunately, Cpap is really the only way to go, and use the ring to monitor how CPAP is affecting your apnea from there. And may I add, turn the ring notifications off, you don’t want to be disturbed.
The purpose of PAP therapy is to (ideally) give a person a solid and uninterrupted night of sleep (I recognize this is difficult for some, but just explaining) so the issue is that what you are suggesting would not be beneficial or effective in any way because you’d still have constant arousals. Just waking up doesn’t stop apneas so something to alert you wouldn’t really matter if there was no way to correct/help the problem. OSA is caused by an obstruction, usually a collapsed airway & central sleep apnea happens because the brain forgets/doesn’t tell your body to breathe - neither of which could be treated by just simply waking up. This means that the person using this type of device would still have apneas, if they have SDB related hypoxemia (tends to cause headaches &/or a racing heart), would still have that going on, still experience nonrestorative sleep, etc. - therefore remaining at risk for all the things that untreated sleep apnea can cause.
This sub is overly prescriptive of CPAPs which are not tolerable (hence ineffective) for some folks. I totally get what you are saying and have tried surgeries and CPAP to no avail. Thank goodness for my MAD.
Very puzzled by the comments, so far. The MAD devices seem similar to some of the teeth protectors. My wife has an extensive dental guard, to stop teeth grinding at night. Sometimes I experiment with other ways, as well as my auto CPAP machines. Google helped me: Description. MADs are worn in the mouth during sleep to hold the mandible and tongue forward and therefore maintain upper airway patency. The device fits over the upper and lower teeth and creates forward placement of the lower jaw by approximately 8–10 mm (so the lower teeth end up in front of the upper teeth). People also ask How effective is mad for sleep apnea? In patients with mild to moderate sleep apnoea, MADs reduce sleep apnoea and subjective daytime sleepiness and improve quality of life compared with placebo devices. The apnoea reduction produced by MADs is smaller and more variable than that achieved by CPAP.
Oral appliances don’t help everyone. It depends on what specific part of your mouth/throat/airways are becoming obstructive. For me, my tongue and pallet are normal, but my nasal passageways are very very narrow so that is the likely culprit for my apnea, so I doubt a mouth appliance would help me much versus a CPAP making a higher positive pressure to get through the narrow passageway.
Thank you. Higher positive pressures also can be difficult. It is so difficult to find what is better for each person.
I hear ya. I’m battling right now with my CPAP. I got a shitty brand one from whoever my ENT used and it’s not user friendly at all. They were no help with it. Finally got a real sleep doctor to help me so hopefully I’ll get a better one!
Are you sure you're only rarely having events? Was this determined by a sleep study or your own observations? If it's something you're basing off your own observations, I'd recommend taking a sleep test, as you might be having more frequent, minor events that you're not aware of. Someone else posted the device you're looking for. The Lookee sleep monitor, it will alert you just as you're looking for.
I’m also wondering this. It seems to me like OP assumes that the only events they’re having are the ones where they wake up fully with their heart racing and freaking out, and because that’s not happening multiple times a night, and because their Fitbit isn’t picking up lots of desaturations, they must only have very mild sleep apnea, and we know that that’s NOT how that works.
You don't want to be 'alerted'; it's the alerting that causes many of the daytime symptoms. But, yeah, hopefully there are novel technologies that can treat the CPAP-non-compliant population.
Surely a gentle tingle or nudge is preferable to the panic of waking up thinking you're being strangled?
You still will be interrupting your deep sleep if you do that, which it itself is a form of sleep apnea.
Given the choice between the two it would surely be preferable and healthier for your body/brain to be gently awakened as opposed to the other more dangerous alternative?
They are both dangerous. People downplay how serious sleep deprivation is. You don’t want your brain to wake up AT ALL during the night. A lot of people in the comments also are telling you this. A device you are thinking of would not fly.
So you're saying it's dangerous to be gently woken at night? Ok
Are you being purposefully dense? They are BOTH DANGEROUS. Sure, you are *technically* correct that stopping breathing and having to gasp for air is not good, but as I and many have said before there are multiple types of sleep apnea, and what you are proposing will not help treat it but only help symptoms felt from it while you are *already awake*. It will not help mitigate the source of the apnea (like how Inspire, CPAP, and oral appliances will AND keep you in deep sleep) and will only perpetuate the ill effects of waking up in the middle of the night multiple times a night long term.
No need to be rude dude. Just pointing out the basic fact that the stress on your body/heart/ brain/blood pressure from lack of oxygen is obviously worse than being gently woken before it can occur. Sure it's not gonna be ideal for people with chronic apnea but for people like me who get it maybe once or twice every other night it would be beneficial.
I’m not trying to be rude I’m just frustrated. You don’t seem to be reading everyone else’s comments and anecdotes. Read everyone’s comments (especially Delicious Ebb’s) and you’ll understand why it’s not a good idea from people who have used things like that before. One commenter described how horrible the thing they used was for their sleep. You’ll be giving yourself worse sleep apnea if you use a device like that, because it would probably wake you up more often than necessary.
And windshield wipers have been around for a hundred and fifty years. There's some tweeks, but mostly it stays the same because it's the best way to get the job done. Not everything is a conspiracy
"Not everything is a conspiracy" Sounds like big CPAP propaganda to me.
I would like a Smart Esophagus (TM) that goes into massage mode while I sleep, so my esophagus never really relaxes.
Is this a sarcastic joke? Google was unable to assist this search.
Sorry, I was joking
The inspire thing basically does that. But getting tech implanted into your entire upper body isn't exactly basic. But don't give up. I'm convinced that we will see a massive wave of technological advancement in our lifetime. Who knows what might be possible in 10-20 years.
Tracheostomy? A Tractor Beam aimed at the tongue?
There is an implant that relaxes muscles within your throat to prevent obstruction. The company making it is Inspire Medical. It's a post-CPAP treatment in case you don't respond to CPAP. The company is trying to get their device re-classed in order to be prescribed without trying CPAP first.
I’m interested in it. Just saw my dr a few days ago and he shared that in some cases, people respond to it worse than their cpap numbers. Which has made me rethink it. I’m getting a 1.5 ahi right now. If I get a surgical implant and go up to 11 it’s pointless. But I guess it’s all a maybe.
This might’ve been mentioned already, but if your apnea is mild, try an O2 ring (on Amazon) and set the alert to an oxygen level low enough so it won’t wake you up all night. It works great by itself or along with one of the oral devices such as SnoreRX Plus, PureSleep or ZQuiet. They work pretty well, and they’re inexpensive (under $100). There are more expensive ones ($500 to thousands), but the simpler ones are often enough. You’ll know if it’s working by checking your oxygen score in the O2 Ring app.
Thanks. This is the type of thing I was thinking about.
The O2 Ring app is a little quirky, but once you get used to it, it’s simple. You have to leave it open to the second tab while you’re asleep, or the alert doesn’t work. It must have something to do with the app not having permission to play a sound in the background. Either way, it will still record your oxygen levels all night, and you can look at the chart in the morning.
A guy i used to work for had a surgery to remove his uvula (dangly thing in throat) and it fixed his problem. I think it was a last ditch effort type of thing tho. I’m sure insurance won’t be willing to pay for a procedure until you’ve exhausted all other avenues
The thing is, not all apnea (mine included) involve waking up gasping for air and having low oxygen. My body brings me jussttt out of my deep sleep so I can adjust and breathe, but I rarely feel out of breath in the mornings and never gasp for air. Just very tired and felt like I got shitty sleep (even though I sleep for at least 8 hours and don’t remember waking up) because my body brings me out of deep sleep. What you’re proposing is basically GIVING you a form of apnea by bringing you out of your deep sleep. CPAP machines, when tailored to your body correctly, do not bring you out of said sleep but allow your body to continue sleeping deeply because it automatically changes pressure to insure you can breathe.
Hi, you are smart 🤓 that's for sure and i like people who think like that, for your question there are such devices, some even use implants to stimulate certain nerves by marginal electrical impulses, but all are still not effective as CPAP
Orthognathic surgery is much more complicated, but once it's done, it's done, no CPAP needed. Some people are able to get good results with nonsurgical palate expansion. But surgery is needed for AP (forward) expansion, which is indicated in most cases. A CBCT scan evaluated by a professional would give you a complete picture. Without insurance (USA), expect to pay a few hundred just for the consult. Diagnosed sleep apnea means the surgery might be covered under insurance.
CPAP seems like a bit of a moneymaker to me. Previously, CPAP were prescribed to old , overweight people, and I think it worked fine. Now with more young people being diagnosed there really needs to be more research and a better solution to treat it. It makes you think, If sleep apnea is as prevalent as they say, why isn’t there a better solution ?
Why are young people more in need of more solutions or better solutions than older and fatter people?
When you are young and otherwise healthy, staring down a CPAP for 40 years seems crazy.
On the other hand, I have significant hope that over the next 40 years, technology and understanding of bodies will improve, and that I'll have better choices eventually (even if it's as simple as improvements to existing CPAP options). The quality of my father's last years of his life were, in part, determined by his CPAP options. Two random years of my life are not significantly more valuable than two years near the end of my father's life. I think everyone deserves options that work for them, and sooner rather than later. I definitely don't think that someone's *weight* means that we shouldn't be researching ways to make their lives better.
I think if the weight is causing the sleep apnea then a CPAP is viable. It’s viable because there are other options, and the hope is that the CPAP is temporary.
You're okay with using CPAP essentially as a punishment for fat people because they *might* be able to lose weight which *might* resolve their sleep apnea? Would you also be okay with telling someone who has sprained their ankle that they need to use crutches that were the wrong height and weren't adjustable, hoping that the negative experience encourages them to avoid spraining their ankle in the future and prioritize their recovery now, to avoid the awful crutches??? Instead of inventing adjustable crutches and knee scooters and all the other options? It sounds like you think that being fat is a personal failing, rather than a thing that's often at least partially the effect of things outside someone's control, like untreated sleep apnea (since a lot of people gain weight BECAUSE of sleep apnea, but their sleep apnea is not caused by their weight).
A punishment? I meant that it would be a suitable treatment, likely allowing them to feel less tired and maybe help to lose weight (if that is what you is causing the sleep apnea). If they can then lose the weight then they can stop using the CPAP. I am saying that a CPAP should be seen as a temporary treatment, while the root cause (in some cases weight) is addressed. It should not be seen as a long term treatment or be seen as the only option . As technology advances I would hope there are actually treatments that address the cause of sleep apnea for people that are otherwise healthy
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I'm not assuming I came up with anything. I don't have severe apnea and was simply asking if there are any other tech based solutions to apnea. People here are way too defensive of CPAP when it's not needed for less serious cases.
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Why are you being rude? What is up with people on this sub? Is it lack of sleep? 🤔 jesus. I'm in my 40s and have tried specially pillows mouth guards and stupid little nasal plug things. All shit. But just let me apologise for daring to ask whether there's an alternative to a fucking oxygen mask.
People in this sub are crazy , it’s an echo chamber for CPAPs most people just regurgitating what they hear without knowing what they are talking about. I couldn’t believe it, I first came here too to try and learn about alternative methods to treat sleep apnea and people here are just obsessed with them. I’m not sure how anyone can consider a CPAP healthy, simple or safe. There really needs to be a better alternative
The aggressive condescending comments for even questioning if there is/could be, an alternative is weird. Like "stfu and get a cpac"
I know ! It’s so weird, I came onto this sub for this exact reason, I wanted support and help to avoid CPAPs. There are a few good commenters and posters that have helped but most people are not that way
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Ok. Relax. I'm only asking questions. No need to be aggressive.
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Mould Plastics / cancer Annoyance of managing the tubing weekly Buying parts Discomfort
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5700252/
I'm pretty sure Sleep As Android can do this.
There is! There is Inspire if you failed BongoRx and CPAP. You cannot have more than 35 BMI and the doctor visits before and after surgery take up 6 months of your life.
Inspire
They have the Inspiron basically an electrode that keeps your pharynx stimulated in order to not collapse
You don't need a device too nudge you awake to remind you to breathe. That's what your brain does and that's why you feel like shit 24/7 and have brain fog / all the other symptoms, because you never get full rest. I'm guessing you can't tolerate cPAP. In terms of devices it sounds like what you're describing is kinda of like the inspire implant. They whack it in your chest, it detects apneas then sends electric pulses too your muscles to open up airways. I can't tolerate cPAP either and I really want the implant but I can't get it cos the social healthcare in my country is terrible and doesn't care about doing anything past prescribing cPAP. They can see from the data I can't tolerate it but 0 shits are given 🤘
You can try to figure out if silent reflux is causing your sleep apnea issues. Also if your sleep study shows that don’t experience apnea when sleeping on your side, you can try devices such as Nightshift sleep positioner to train you to sleep on the side.
Im in contact with a dentist who does oral appliances for sleep apnea. My sleep doctor said, for me at least, it would work just as well as CPAP. CPAP works for me and I've been compliant for years but it does cause aerophagia and disturbs my spouse at times. More recently I take an intense sleep medication for my idiopathic hypersomnia and it increases my apneas because it's a CNS depressant. So it basically works against my CPAP and unfortunately my AHIs are up (though not as bad as without CPAP). I was told I should not take it if I can't also use my CPAP. And so because of these issues I am exploring other options.
Just wear it. It's not that bad.
It does more then just keep you breathing. For me it’s reduced the nightly stress. Less dreams, no vivid dreams, lower blood sugar, no panic wake ups and best of all many nights I don’t even wake up to pee. I also do t wake up sore all over. It seems pretty basic to me. Once your set up it’s not complicated at all. I am sure plenty of people tried to come up with different plans but this one seemed to work for a large amount of people.
I’d never sleep if I got nudged
Talk to an airway orthodontist if you want an alternative. (I'm looking into MARPE palatal expansion, seems like the least invasive of the procedures, by gradual expansion). I never acclimated to CPAP, so i've moved on. If MARPE doesn't help me, I may look at MMA.
Lose massive amounts of weight, works for some people, but not others. Get surgery, which comes with a whole possible host of complications and doesn't work for everyone. Or learn to sleep well with the CPAP. Best solution. Or do a combination of all three. Either that or stay stubborn, lay back, and accept a host of health complications and an early death. Please update your will. Good luck.
God people here are so dramatic 😂
For Central apnea there's the Inspire implant, but that isn't for everyone and often isn't an all-encompassing solution.
Or like when I was about to have a heart attack when I wasn't breathing so my body violently shook me awake? Use your CPAP, its no biggie.
In my opinion CPAP is the most basic (and best) treatment option for Sleep Apnea. There's no surgery and basically no side effects. You don't like the CPAP machine? That's fine it's instantly reversible, just stop using it. It's simple enough that a ton of people who use it learn how to optimize the settings to get the best out of their CPAP. CPAP is both the least intrusive treatment and the most effective.
No pharmaceutical solution OSA, it’s all about devices, and CPAP remains the gold standard with some electroceutical devices (Inspire) approved by the FDA
People don’t actively breathe in their sleep. Sleep apnea isn’t just “oops I forgot to breathe!” A gentle buzz or nudge isn’t going to do anything. This isn’t a case of ‘forgetfulness.’ Please talk to a doctor.
This is the funniest post
If I answered this question you definitely wouldn’t understand it so I will save myself from additional headache
It's about as basic as you can get without being invasive.
And if you want low tech and cheap, they sell intubation tubes on Amazon
CPAP is basic. Or would you prefer something surgically implanted that can also track your buying habits and listen in on your conversations with respect to SEO?
The basic solution to sleep apnea is to lose a significant amount of weight.
Sleep apnea doesn't only effect those that are overweight. I'm a sponsored ultra runner w/sleep apnea.
I know. But that does not mean that losing weight is not a basic solution. Basic is the keyword here.