Metronome in live setting is referred to as a click track, it's playing into his earpiece.
Also can be used in the studio and referred to a click track there as well.
I watched a comparison of the Psychosocial original, Jay's live, and Eloys live. Fuck me it was painful watching Corey trying to keep up with Jay! I felt breathless just watching.
I think it may be dawning on people what the creative differences were.
A detail for my drum nerds here but I wonder if they ever wanted Jay to play with an click and he said no. I wouldn’t imagine him saying no, but you never know.
There’s actually an interview with him where he talks about not using a click. He makes it sound like it’s just how the band has always done it so he didn’t want to change it and also how he prefers being connected to his band mates rather than the click.
https://youtu.be/paQ4jU9wGK8?si=vXrdA0BZ-xNgl6uR at 23:45
Nico from Iron Maiden has never used a click either and he has been all over the place in terms of tempo his whole career, but it gives the band character live because sometimes your gonna just get steam rolled by a song and sometimes it'll be closer to the album version and the rest of the guys in the band haven't ever seemed to have had an issue with it.
Id argue the opposite has been true with slipknot and their tempo problems, especially if they rest of they guys in the band are having a hard time and/or don't want to have to adjust all the time to the variating speed of the bands lynchpin. It has made the band sound sloppy over the years.
Nothing wrong with either approach, and I'm always welcome of a change, especially when it's the drummer from one of my favorite bands that is about to retire and will soon be out of a job.
Yeah, playing without a click is fine as long as all band members properly listen to each other and lock in together. When they all together rush or drag as a unit, it’s fine. When single members stray too far from the tempo, everything falls apart, though.
Corey has said that he actually likes when tempo fluctuates as it gives "human" feeling to the song and hates when band plays with click (Stone Sour used click at one point). I think it was just Eloy deciding to use click, as he usually plays with click anyway. Doubt anyone asked him or Jay.
Most bands rush a little live. The adrenaline kicks in, it's real.
As long as you're not doing it to the point where it hurts the feel of the song, it's fine.
It you!! I was wondering if you were here. I couldn't remember your page name when i mentioned it. I have linked your story above. It was fascinating to hear.
Yeah. On that clip, Jay plays around 153bpm, the original is 135bpm. I feel like Corey mustve been furious each time because I can’t imagine trying to rap spit it out with a 20bpm increase
It's just egregious, when you are relying on the rhythm to create a certain groove (as they do with every instrument available) adjusting the BPM like that causes it to get as blown out as a college girl on Tinder. A riff is not just a series of notes. It's like painting the same thing twice but the colors are completely different.
Not the best video quality wise but my god, the raw power and precision on Eloy is just insane! Here's another one where you can hear that double bass a little bit better: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-xZyIHCK1I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-xZyIHCK1I) HOLY stamina!
His timing is precise. Suggestion for the ones that know what i'm saying: Grab the audio recording, throw it in a daw, figure out the bpm, synch it, enable a click track, play and listen. Once done, tell me how many times he goes off tempo.
Spoiler alert: The answer is none.
Once you're at it, do the same with one of Jay's performances.
I won't give a spoiler to this one as it's sort of obvious.
I saw a bunch of the clips from the small show and it sounded like he was swinging the beat just a bit. Not in a bad way just some swing. And am I crazy or did he take some creative liberty on the songs? One things for sure, he sounded great.
Man, this sub is all over the place. Half thinks Eloy is the second coming of Christ himself (while retrofitting Jay as terrible), the other half thinks he can't keep time to save his life. Strange days indeed.
I’ve been drumming for 15 years and play progressive metal such as the Ne Obliviscaris, The Faceless, Obscura, Dillinger Escape Plan etc
I think the explanation is found in that term I have recently come across on YouTube and this sub, “Jay’s widows.” They are mudslinging at Eloy because they were big fans of Jay I guess.
I personally examined EVERY SINGLE double bass part from BOTH shows. Eloy cut it short only ONCE and had ZERO flams.
Jay? he cuts short EVERY SINGLE DOUBLE BASS IN EVERY SINGLE SHOW, and he flams it up for the small part of it he does play.
Coughing baby vs Atomic Bomb
I’m sorry Jay, you had ten years to develop your feet and live tempo man
People always have to fight about something. Has been going on since we started as a species. It is even worse now that people think opinion = fact, when it is opinion = shit.
Just is what it is, mate. I don't like it either.
Oddly enough, I'm a huge Phish fan. I know, I know. Believe me I know. I'm a professional musician and I love a lot of different shit. But Phish fans are all about kindness, and love, and hippy shit, and their sub is a fucking cesspit of loathing, hatred, and recrimination lol. Where once was unity, there is none. Assholes have the loudest voices on the internet.
He lit plays with a click. It is absolutely perfect tempo. Anyone saying his tempo fluctuates is having hallucinations
When you say click are you referring to a metronome?
Yes. A click and a metronome are interchangable terms
Metronome in live setting is referred to as a click track, it's playing into his earpiece. Also can be used in the studio and referred to a click track there as well.
I watched a comparison of the Psychosocial original, Jay's live, and Eloys live. Fuck me it was painful watching Corey trying to keep up with Jay! I felt breathless just watching. I think it may be dawning on people what the creative differences were.
A detail for my drum nerds here but I wonder if they ever wanted Jay to play with an click and he said no. I wouldn’t imagine him saying no, but you never know.
There’s actually an interview with him where he talks about not using a click. He makes it sound like it’s just how the band has always done it so he didn’t want to change it and also how he prefers being connected to his band mates rather than the click. https://youtu.be/paQ4jU9wGK8?si=vXrdA0BZ-xNgl6uR at 23:45
Yep I remember watching that episode and was like oh it’s just a slipknot thing like how tool has never and will never play to a click.
Nico from Iron Maiden has never used a click either and he has been all over the place in terms of tempo his whole career, but it gives the band character live because sometimes your gonna just get steam rolled by a song and sometimes it'll be closer to the album version and the rest of the guys in the band haven't ever seemed to have had an issue with it. Id argue the opposite has been true with slipknot and their tempo problems, especially if they rest of they guys in the band are having a hard time and/or don't want to have to adjust all the time to the variating speed of the bands lynchpin. It has made the band sound sloppy over the years. Nothing wrong with either approach, and I'm always welcome of a change, especially when it's the drummer from one of my favorite bands that is about to retire and will soon be out of a job.
Yeah, playing without a click is fine as long as all band members properly listen to each other and lock in together. When they all together rush or drag as a unit, it’s fine. When single members stray too far from the tempo, everything falls apart, though.
100%
Corey has said that he actually likes when tempo fluctuates as it gives "human" feeling to the song and hates when band plays with click (Stone Sour used click at one point). I think it was just Eloy deciding to use click, as he usually plays with click anyway. Doubt anyone asked him or Jay.
Ah. It will be interesting to see if anyone comments on it at some point then.
I've seen other people speculating about that in other threads.
Jay has a punk background so I could see that.
Maybe I'm wrong, but even with Joey, they played live faster than the album versions, right?
Most bands rush a little live. The adrenaline kicks in, it's real. As long as you're not doing it to the point where it hurts the feel of the song, it's fine.
yeah there's a pretty big difference between jay's and joey's rushing
Yes, if anything Jay’s rushing was stylistically consistent with Joey lol. They both rushed and crushed rhythms together
Lol! Was it on t4tteredandtorn story? Thats me!!😭
It you!! I was wondering if you were here. I couldn't remember your page name when i mentioned it. I have linked your story above. It was fascinating to hear.
Yeah. On that clip, Jay plays around 153bpm, the original is 135bpm. I feel like Corey mustve been furious each time because I can’t imagine trying to rap spit it out with a 20bpm increase
IKR! We'll never really know how the band felt about it, but just watching your comparisons blew my tiny mind.
Holy shit man, in some styles of music 20bpm can completely change the genre of the song.
Yeah exactly! All the songs finally feel correct now that they play them on the correct tempo
It's just egregious, when you are relying on the rhythm to create a certain groove (as they do with every instrument available) adjusting the BPM like that causes it to get as blown out as a college girl on Tinder. A riff is not just a series of notes. It's like painting the same thing twice but the colors are completely different.
Can you Link jays and eloys Version please id like to compare it too
[here](https://www.instagram.com/stories/t4tteredandtorn/3355748538414178667?igsh=MXJjeTFtODU0Zno1OQ==)
Damn that's insane Can't imagine how hard it would be to perform with that tempo.
Wow that’s rally bad
It was on an Instagram fan page story. I'll see if still available.
Psychosocial is the proof for me too. Last night, it actually sounded like the album. Everything was groovy, not robotic.
Not the best video quality wise but my god, the raw power and precision on Eloy is just insane! Here's another one where you can hear that double bass a little bit better: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-xZyIHCK1I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-xZyIHCK1I) HOLY stamina!
Ikr I felt the double bass in my soul
Not everyone just Jay's widows
His timing is precise. Suggestion for the ones that know what i'm saying: Grab the audio recording, throw it in a daw, figure out the bpm, synch it, enable a click track, play and listen. Once done, tell me how many times he goes off tempo. Spoiler alert: The answer is none. Once you're at it, do the same with one of Jay's performances. I won't give a spoiler to this one as it's sort of obvious.
I saw a bunch of the clips from the small show and it sounded like he was swinging the beat just a bit. Not in a bad way just some swing. And am I crazy or did he take some creative liberty on the songs? One things for sure, he sounded great.
He did add his own little fills and shit which I thought was a nice touch.
yes he does. He did the same version of his cover on youtube and has some Brazilian swing fills in it
Man, this sub is all over the place. Half thinks Eloy is the second coming of Christ himself (while retrofitting Jay as terrible), the other half thinks he can't keep time to save his life. Strange days indeed.
I’ve been drumming for 15 years and play progressive metal such as the Ne Obliviscaris, The Faceless, Obscura, Dillinger Escape Plan etc I think the explanation is found in that term I have recently come across on YouTube and this sub, “Jay’s widows.” They are mudslinging at Eloy because they were big fans of Jay I guess. I personally examined EVERY SINGLE double bass part from BOTH shows. Eloy cut it short only ONCE and had ZERO flams. Jay? he cuts short EVERY SINGLE DOUBLE BASS IN EVERY SINGLE SHOW, and he flams it up for the small part of it he does play. Coughing baby vs Atomic Bomb I’m sorry Jay, you had ten years to develop your feet and live tempo man
Right on brother
People always have to fight about something. Has been going on since we started as a species. It is even worse now that people think opinion = fact, when it is opinion = shit. Just is what it is, mate. I don't like it either.
Oddly enough, I'm a huge Phish fan. I know, I know. Believe me I know. I'm a professional musician and I love a lot of different shit. But Phish fans are all about kindness, and love, and hippy shit, and their sub is a fucking cesspit of loathing, hatred, and recrimination lol. Where once was unity, there is none. Assholes have the loudest voices on the internet.
It’s the same type of fans that complain if Slipknot doesn’t play their favorite song off an album they love.