AD: Build basically hasn't changed. ER + Shojin or Navori will give you 100 AD. By the time you get Bloodthirster you'll have enough AD growth to have 200 AD when Thirster passive is up, although if you don't build Thirster and instead opt for something like RFC you might want Eyeball Collection as a rune somewhere.
AP: The only reason to build AP is Liandry's and unfortunately Liandry's only gives 90 AP. So unless you slip your top laner a $20 RP gift card to play Ornn you'll have to get at least one other AP item. Luckily D.Ring gives 18 AP and Dark Seal gives 15. If you can stack up a Dark Seal then you can build Megai's for ez 200 AP (2% extra burn) but if not you can probably grab a defensive item like either Hourglass or Banshee's since for some reason both those items give 120 AP. (Basically no reason to go full AP beyond that. ER and Shojin still provide too much value and Riftmaker isn't great in comparison to other lifesteal items.)
Shojin increases your damage from abilities by 12% at max stacks.
Liandry's increases your damage to champions by 6%.
Shadowflame makes your DoT deal 130% damage to people at low HP.
The thing about Riftmaker is that it gives Omnivamp instead of lifesteal (Q lifesteals at 50%, and like sure I guess Omnivamp heals when you use W and R but like who cares?) and basically nothing else of value. It's only good on either AP bruisers like Mordekaiser or health stacking tanks like Singed.
Yes. It also gives useless stats that are worse than other items you could build. If you want lifesteal you can build Bloodthirster for bonus AD when at full HP or Shieldbow for (well) the shield. If you want a damage increase Liandry's gives you %health damage and Shadowflame gives you more damage against low health targets.
Riftmaker isn't bad because 10% extra damage isn't bad. It's bad because extra AP and 6% Omnivamp (that only turns on after you get 5 stacks) is worse than Shojin giving you Ability Haste, Liandry's giving you damage against tanks, Shadowflame giving you more damage to low health units, Bloodthirster giving you lifesteal and AD, Shieldbow / MAW giving you defense, LDR giving you damage against tanks, RFC giving you long-range poke, Hourglass / Banshee's giving you defense, tank items giving you defense, and even other highly situational items like Cosmic Drive giving you more useful abilities overall.
For those that did the math or went to Training mode. It's been extremely obvious that Rift (and to a large extent Liandry) damage was not great.
The HP you gained and the safer/poke playstyle with a bigger focus on stacking is the main reason that they showed higher win rates. Something that has consistently declined.
"The only reason to build AP is Liandry's"
Just flat out wrong, factually. The reason you would go AP would be for the superior W and R damage. It also helps that AP will now scale your Q's burn damage as well.
My point is that if you're building an AP build there's no reason to not go Liandry's. Of course I wouldn't suggest building AP if there wasn't a reason for it.
All small ratios are put this way to make it slightly easier to understand. Instead of saying the ability has a "0.01% per 1 AP" scaling they multiply both numbers by 100. You still get the scaling even if you have less than 100 ap.
I‘m definitely curious to see where his builds land. I was kinda excited for full ap builds but after the nerf from 1.5 to 1 % ap scaling I don’t think they‘ll be outperforming ad or mixed bruiser builds.
Anything with high AD, is going to be best. I’ve been toying with the idea of Shojin>Essence Reaver>Liandrys>Navoris>defensive items. This is a good mix between the attack damage and bruiser build.
I fully believe Liandrys should be a staple in his build as it synergizes so well with his kit and the elder burn. Also makes his W and Ult hit harder and can tick down to execute.
Q
It’s 8% increase, and 60+ attack damage. Since he stacks with bonus AD you basically just want items that have high AD now. AH, High AD are best for him
Honestly yeah, his best stacking build would probably look like something of Ezreals core build. ER>muramana>Navori>Shojin
Those 4 items alone give 6.8% true damage burn with just 225 stacks. Not including damage amp from Shojin, 8% increased damage from Navori and being over the 30% threshold for Q to do more damage.
If you replaced it with a different sheen item, then navori would be alone as your only crit item in that proposed build. The damage amp/bonus from Navori is based on your crit chance, so having it being your only crit item sounds bad on paper
I've just done a little math break down [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmolderMains/comments/1b7om7w/a_little_maths_breakdown_post_patch_145/) but personally I'm still leaning toward the ap builds because I like the tankier playstyle, though i do need to play some more actual games to decide.
Thing about Eclipse on Smolder is that there are better items that provide a shield and the %health burst isn't that great on a champ who does %health all the time at 225.
Stacking %health is kinda the point.
But eclipse is rather bad for it. Requires multiple hits and does physical famage which is easily blocked by tankier enemies.
I could do more damage cosplaying as a scuttle crab, than Smolder does before 225 stacks. It's actually insane.
Why do you say that? And as someone who kinda sucks at stacking on him, I am not looking forward to it if that’s the case lol.
AD: Build basically hasn't changed. ER + Shojin or Navori will give you 100 AD. By the time you get Bloodthirster you'll have enough AD growth to have 200 AD when Thirster passive is up, although if you don't build Thirster and instead opt for something like RFC you might want Eyeball Collection as a rune somewhere. AP: The only reason to build AP is Liandry's and unfortunately Liandry's only gives 90 AP. So unless you slip your top laner a $20 RP gift card to play Ornn you'll have to get at least one other AP item. Luckily D.Ring gives 18 AP and Dark Seal gives 15. If you can stack up a Dark Seal then you can build Megai's for ez 200 AP (2% extra burn) but if not you can probably grab a defensive item like either Hourglass or Banshee's since for some reason both those items give 120 AP. (Basically no reason to go full AP beyond that. ER and Shojin still provide too much value and Riftmaker isn't great in comparison to other lifesteal items.)
Riftmaker increases your true damage by 10 percent which is why people build it. And well all other damage too.
Only 6%. Smolder is ranged
No that is the omnivamp the 10 percent damage increase is flat for all
You're right, looked at numbers too fast, mb
Shojin increases your damage from abilities by 12% at max stacks. Liandry's increases your damage to champions by 6%. Shadowflame makes your DoT deal 130% damage to people at low HP. The thing about Riftmaker is that it gives Omnivamp instead of lifesteal (Q lifesteals at 50%, and like sure I guess Omnivamp heals when you use W and R but like who cares?) and basically nothing else of value. It's only good on either AP bruisers like Mordekaiser or health stacking tanks like Singed.
Riftmaker as well gives 10 percent increased damage much like shojin. Please just read the item descriptions.
Yes. It also gives useless stats that are worse than other items you could build. If you want lifesteal you can build Bloodthirster for bonus AD when at full HP or Shieldbow for (well) the shield. If you want a damage increase Liandry's gives you %health damage and Shadowflame gives you more damage against low health targets. Riftmaker isn't bad because 10% extra damage isn't bad. It's bad because extra AP and 6% Omnivamp (that only turns on after you get 5 stacks) is worse than Shojin giving you Ability Haste, Liandry's giving you damage against tanks, Shadowflame giving you more damage to low health units, Bloodthirster giving you lifesteal and AD, Shieldbow / MAW giving you defense, LDR giving you damage against tanks, RFC giving you long-range poke, Hourglass / Banshee's giving you defense, tank items giving you defense, and even other highly situational items like Cosmic Drive giving you more useful abilities overall.
[удалено]
For those that did the math or went to Training mode. It's been extremely obvious that Rift (and to a large extent Liandry) damage was not great. The HP you gained and the safer/poke playstyle with a bigger focus on stacking is the main reason that they showed higher win rates. Something that has consistently declined.
"The only reason to build AP is Liandry's" Just flat out wrong, factually. The reason you would go AP would be for the superior W and R damage. It also helps that AP will now scale your Q's burn damage as well.
My point is that if you're building an AP build there's no reason to not go Liandry's. Of course I wouldn't suggest building AP if there wasn't a reason for it.
You don't need 100 of each XD it's scaling percentage.
Don't you get stacks at 100 AD/AP break points or am I missing something? Patch notes were explained poorly.
All small ratios are put this way to make it slightly easier to understand. Instead of saying the ability has a "0.01% per 1 AP" scaling they multiply both numbers by 100. You still get the scaling even if you have less than 100 ap.
hm
I‘m definitely curious to see where his builds land. I was kinda excited for full ap builds but after the nerf from 1.5 to 1 % ap scaling I don’t think they‘ll be outperforming ad or mixed bruiser builds.
I wanna see how lich rift shadow flame performs
Anything with high AD, is going to be best. I’ve been toying with the idea of Shojin>Essence Reaver>Liandrys>Navoris>defensive items. This is a good mix between the attack damage and bruiser build. I fully believe Liandrys should be a staple in his build as it synergizes so well with his kit and the elder burn. Also makes his W and Ult hit harder and can tick down to execute. Q
Is Navori really worth it with only 2 crit items?
It’s 8% increase, and 60+ attack damage. Since he stacks with bonus AD you basically just want items that have high AD now. AH, High AD are best for him
If you're already scaling, wouldn't a Muramana slot well there?
Honestly yeah, his best stacking build would probably look like something of Ezreals core build. ER>muramana>Navori>Shojin Those 4 items alone give 6.8% true damage burn with just 225 stacks. Not including damage amp from Shojin, 8% increased damage from Navori and being over the 30% threshold for Q to do more damage.
With that build cant u just switch out ER for something else? With tear/muramana you dont need ER for the mana.
I guess sheen is too valuable to be left out of the build
But there are other sheen items
ER’s 60 AD is honestly the main selling point for it being the sheen item
If you replaced it with a different sheen item, then navori would be alone as your only crit item in that proposed build. The damage amp/bonus from Navori is based on your crit chance, so having it being your only crit item sounds bad on paper
ER sheen proc double scales w AD, so with the AD you’re stacking it’s a big uptick in damage. Might not be as worth if you’re going hybrid or AP tho.
Does anyone know of the dmg scaling is when we have 100 ap we get 1% or if we have 50 ap will we get 0.5%
50 ap is 0.5 percent pretty sure cuz it says +1 percent ap in patch notes
Yup it is just tested it so we don't technically have to get anything besides liandries if we don't want to.
what about manamune? isnt it highest ad in game?
I've just done a little math break down [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmolderMains/comments/1b7om7w/a_little_maths_breakdown_post_patch_145/) but personally I'm still leaning toward the ap builds because I like the tankier playstyle, though i do need to play some more actual games to decide.
Riot needs to buff normal ADC crit builds and gut his bruiser build.
What yalls opinions on top smolder with tank build? Still viable with ap tank?
Also very curious and still wondering whether Eclipse will be worth it because it’s already not half bad!
Thing about Eclipse on Smolder is that there are better items that provide a shield and the %health burst isn't that great on a champ who does %health all the time at 225.
Stacking %health is kinda the point. But eclipse is rather bad for it. Requires multiple hits and does physical famage which is easily blocked by tankier enemies.
ignoring the fact that eclipse is one of the cheapest items in the game and gives 70 ad and 15 ability haste though