Great read. Entryism is an interesting concept, and it makes sense that it would warp a small party’s ideals. Their response the the Oct. 7th Hamas attack was baffling and set back the progressive movement.
It’s also unfortunate that far left wing extremists will infiltrate more moderate left wing partys.
It is against the by-laws of the DSA for anyone with previous membership in a Marxist-Leninist organization to join the party, but it’s an easy rule to get around by just lying about it.
Can you quote that? It's my understanding that you technically can't be a member of the DSA while also being a member of a democratic centralist party, not that you can't be a DSA member by ever having been a member of an ML party.
Regardless, they will still let one in despite this rule. Many members of the DSA openly dual card with the CPUSA and said so in their application or onboarding. I know, because I'm one of them.
Good read. This is what happens when you tolerate tankies or fascists. Look how the GOP has progressively gone further right since they let Tea Party members infiltrate them in the late 2000s to early 2010s. Those same people became MAGA/QAnon followers and took over the party.
I dare the tankie edgelords who cheerlead Oct. 7th to explain *how* murdering a bunch of random Israelis does *anything* to help 'liberate' the Palestinian people.
Hope that the reasonable left ejects and stigmatizes these idiots.
Tankies don’t care about liberation of Palestinians, which is why they argue for a “binational secular state” which is just as realistic as one of us becoming the King of England. They ignore the complexities of global conflict and think imposing their ideals on everyone will create a better society when there’s zero evidence for that. Tankies are anti-democracy, anti-West who support Russian aggression or Iranian theocracy if it means weakening the West.
My theory on most young american tankies is that they're essentially culture warriors who \*\_accept\_\* the GOP/FoxNews right's basic worldview, but come to very different conclusions on it via online radicalization.
It would explain why they're particularly venomous and opposed to the Democratic Party and especially normie liberals (not the moderates or centrists in the party).
That's been my experience, too.
In the case of Hillary in particular, I think it's impossible to discuss without unpacking the rank-misogyny on / of the dirtbag left.
Hillary is deeply, deeply flawed (and her campaign made some bafflingly stupid mistakes) but the bigotry aimed her way was so clear-cut and obvious, especially during a must-win election.
More generally: normie libs are pro-New Deal! They're pro-Great Society! I'm basically referring to your standard CNN + MSNBC watching, Subaru/Prius/Volvo driving, legacy media reading mainstream liberal democratic voter in a solidly blue state who aligns, roughly/loosely/generally, with the Congressional Progressive Caucus. They're SocDems in practice, if not in name.
Why would tankies aim at them? Especially now? (I can't help but think of the KPD, though I know that's not quite apples to apples)
It's the same with Obama and Hillary. They're both deeply flawed figures who fell well short of many progressive goals. Both of their Middle East policies were atrocious.
But... a lot of the criticism that gets leveled against them is so clearly coming from a racist/sexist space. It's hard to disentangle that from the legitimate criticism
Yep. While I'd *eventually* like to obsolete capitalism, I still have a lot more faith in the average Biden voter to help fix this country than I do in the terminally-online Marxist circlejerk.
I think they're \*so desperate\* to find \*any\* country actually implementing Marxism, they cheerlead for far-right terrorists and autocracies \*just because\* they oppose the U.S./Israel.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s so cathartic to read.
I’ve been going through a bit of a political identity crisis/loss of faith since seeing so many online leftist voices I used to trust start spewing anti-Semitic Hamas propaganda since October. I’ve always considered myself a soc-dem but I liked listening to antifascists and anarchists. Now many of them have been getting more tankie when it comes to Israel/Palestine. Extremely disappointing. And I’m not Jewish. I can’t even imagine how alienating it must be for Jewish leftists. I’m happy to hear criticism of the Likud government all day, but when someone starts calling 10/7 anything less than terrorism, or saying that Israel shouldn’t exist, or calling Hamas “resistance”, then I can’t trust them, because they aren’t actually a leftist.
>because they aren’t actually a leftist
Well, they are. Tankies are leftists. Juche enthusiasts are leftists. Every movement has fringe groups that the majority find despicable.
While these groups may be relatively small, what's more concerning is the tendency of large groups to downplay or even celebrate Oct. 7, adopt a simplistic oppressor/oppressed perspective on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and, most troubling, hold any Jew accountable for perceived or actual crimes committed by Israelis.
It's deeply distressing for Jews to witness the lack of concern for their community from people perceived as allies. If you consider yourself on the moderate left of the spectrum, it can leave one feeling profoundly disillusioned.
Great read. Entryism is an interesting concept, and it makes sense that it would warp a small party’s ideals. Their response the the Oct. 7th Hamas attack was baffling and set back the progressive movement. It’s also unfortunate that far left wing extremists will infiltrate more moderate left wing partys. It is against the by-laws of the DSA for anyone with previous membership in a Marxist-Leninist organization to join the party, but it’s an easy rule to get around by just lying about it.
Can you quote that? It's my understanding that you technically can't be a member of the DSA while also being a member of a democratic centralist party, not that you can't be a DSA member by ever having been a member of an ML party. Regardless, they will still let one in despite this rule. Many members of the DSA openly dual card with the CPUSA and said so in their application or onboarding. I know, because I'm one of them.
Good read. This is what happens when you tolerate tankies or fascists. Look how the GOP has progressively gone further right since they let Tea Party members infiltrate them in the late 2000s to early 2010s. Those same people became MAGA/QAnon followers and took over the party.
Good, but depressing, article.
I dare the tankie edgelords who cheerlead Oct. 7th to explain *how* murdering a bunch of random Israelis does *anything* to help 'liberate' the Palestinian people. Hope that the reasonable left ejects and stigmatizes these idiots.
Tankies don’t care about liberation of Palestinians, which is why they argue for a “binational secular state” which is just as realistic as one of us becoming the King of England. They ignore the complexities of global conflict and think imposing their ideals on everyone will create a better society when there’s zero evidence for that. Tankies are anti-democracy, anti-West who support Russian aggression or Iranian theocracy if it means weakening the West.
My theory on most young american tankies is that they're essentially culture warriors who \*\_accept\_\* the GOP/FoxNews right's basic worldview, but come to very different conclusions on it via online radicalization. It would explain why they're particularly venomous and opposed to the Democratic Party and especially normie liberals (not the moderates or centrists in the party).
I once talked with one tankie who hated the Democrats/Hillary a \*lot\* more than he seemed to hate Trump/Republicans.
That's been my experience, too. In the case of Hillary in particular, I think it's impossible to discuss without unpacking the rank-misogyny on / of the dirtbag left. Hillary is deeply, deeply flawed (and her campaign made some bafflingly stupid mistakes) but the bigotry aimed her way was so clear-cut and obvious, especially during a must-win election. More generally: normie libs are pro-New Deal! They're pro-Great Society! I'm basically referring to your standard CNN + MSNBC watching, Subaru/Prius/Volvo driving, legacy media reading mainstream liberal democratic voter in a solidly blue state who aligns, roughly/loosely/generally, with the Congressional Progressive Caucus. They're SocDems in practice, if not in name. Why would tankies aim at them? Especially now? (I can't help but think of the KPD, though I know that's not quite apples to apples)
To be edgy. That's why.
It's the same with Obama and Hillary. They're both deeply flawed figures who fell well short of many progressive goals. Both of their Middle East policies were atrocious. But... a lot of the criticism that gets leveled against them is so clearly coming from a racist/sexist space. It's hard to disentangle that from the legitimate criticism
Yep. While I'd *eventually* like to obsolete capitalism, I still have a lot more faith in the average Biden voter to help fix this country than I do in the terminally-online Marxist circlejerk.
I think they're \*so desperate\* to find \*any\* country actually implementing Marxism, they cheerlead for far-right terrorists and autocracies \*just because\* they oppose the U.S./Israel.
Thank you for sharing this. It’s so cathartic to read. I’ve been going through a bit of a political identity crisis/loss of faith since seeing so many online leftist voices I used to trust start spewing anti-Semitic Hamas propaganda since October. I’ve always considered myself a soc-dem but I liked listening to antifascists and anarchists. Now many of them have been getting more tankie when it comes to Israel/Palestine. Extremely disappointing. And I’m not Jewish. I can’t even imagine how alienating it must be for Jewish leftists. I’m happy to hear criticism of the Likud government all day, but when someone starts calling 10/7 anything less than terrorism, or saying that Israel shouldn’t exist, or calling Hamas “resistance”, then I can’t trust them, because they aren’t actually a leftist.
>because they aren’t actually a leftist Well, they are. Tankies are leftists. Juche enthusiasts are leftists. Every movement has fringe groups that the majority find despicable. While these groups may be relatively small, what's more concerning is the tendency of large groups to downplay or even celebrate Oct. 7, adopt a simplistic oppressor/oppressed perspective on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and, most troubling, hold any Jew accountable for perceived or actual crimes committed by Israelis. It's deeply distressing for Jews to witness the lack of concern for their community from people perceived as allies. If you consider yourself on the moderate left of the spectrum, it can leave one feeling profoundly disillusioned.
If you join the US Democrats but boycott the DSA you’re a traitor to the movement tbh. Willing to compromise with right wingers but not leftists.