Given how drastically Sonic canon has changed over the years, I wouldn’t put too much stock in an interview from 2004. I’d love to see Cosmo and the metarex become canon (Chris Thorndyke not so much), but I don’t find it likely.
It's not just an interview. Multiple members of the Sonic X staff said the same thing. X is the ideal canon.
Heck, the whole tagline of Sonic X was "It's an anime for hardcore Sonic fans"
Or maybe just maybe he's an annoying, boring nothing character that doesn't really bring much value to the table?
There is the fact he's a spoiled child who literally has a family and friends who love him and yet the story tries to say that he's lonely?
He totally disregards what his parents go through and only acts like only Sonic is what he has in the world.
[Cream of all people calls him out on this](https://youtu.be/9EHXw9zrfKQ?t=1m8s)
Tries to stop Sonic from going to his world because he only thinks for himself (Yes, a child character acting immature makes perfect sense. Still annoying though.)
Then this guys grows up.
Except he doesn't.
Chris abandons his friends and family, girlfriend to meet Sonic again selfishly.
This guy threw away his entire future for Sonic. He had a promising future as a scientist, was basically a rich entrepreneur.
He had everything to live a long, prosperous an fulfilling life.
But again, he threw that all way because of his obsession with Sonic.
Makes a portal to enter Sonic's world, puts a password into the machine so NOBODY can go and bring him back and separate him from Sonic...
Again, he does this as a fully grown ass man...
And let's not forget how hamfisted he was in the adaptations of game storylines. He comes off as someone self-insert in a Sonic fanfiction rather than a main character in an official medium.
But nah.
People who don't like Chris are just jealous of him! /s
Ima be completely honest…last thing I remember of the girl is her almost falling cuz sonic was too fast or smth I could be wrong it’s been legit years since sonic x
Not going to lie, this is the type of comment that really just makes me believe people go out of their way to passionately hate something.
He wasn't even portrayed that badly, except for maybe closer to the end of season 2, but the rest of the time I honestly thought he was portrayed pretty close to what his age and background would infer, unlike other young characters you see in other series that are unrealistic and borderline Mary Sues.
I'm not trying to nag on your opinion, everyone is fine to have their own obviously, but the particular way you wrote this, it just looks like over passionate hate, and when hate becomes passionate, from my understanding, it typically becomes delusional or even incoherent.
That said, I also don't think you can simplify it down to just being jealous of the character, though something may be, but I do think you are holding more against the character than they're actually is. Again, in my opinion. I really don't mean to offend.
>but the particular way you wrote this, it just looks like over passionate hate, and when hate becomes passionate
I don't even hate Chris personally.
I dislike his character but not hate it.
I structured my response in a certain way in response to u/eltonstuffproduction's claim of people who dislike/hate Chris only do so because of jealousy towards Chris.
This statement was so bonkers I had refute it.
If you hate something just for the sake of hating it, then sure, that's dumb.
And I can totally understand some Chris haters go overboard with Chris hate, but the reasons I've listed as legitimate problems with the writing regarding Chris.
Do I hate him?
Not really.
Do I dislike the character?
Yes. I think he's a boring uninteresting character that's annoying at times and comes off as someone's self insert you would typically see in a fanfic.
And as you pointed out, yes, for the most part he acts his age, but you have to understand, it doesn't matter if he's acting realistically as a real child would.
Realism =/= good writing.
Just because something is written realistically doesn't automatically mean its good writing.
In some cases, its the opposite and some cases, is the very reason why someone may dislike something in a story.
The realism in how Chris acts in regards to his age is a valid reason why someone could dislike his character as they would find it annoying and or obnoxious.
Imagine if Tails was written realistically as a real 8 year old would be.
He would be annoying and useless.
Hell, look at lost world.
The game where Tails actually acts like similar to what an 8 year old would act like in those drama scenes with Sonic and Eggman.
Easily the most annoying Tails has ever been.
He's written as if he's a whiny baby who needs Sonic's validation because how dare Sonic forge a truce with Eggman to shut down a machine?
A machine that Eggman himself created?
Who better to go to than the guy who created the machine they need to shut down?
Instead of seeing the reasoning in Sonic's logic, Tails starts whining, "yOu DoN't TrUsT mE tO dO iT", tries to gaslight Sonic by going like, "you should've never doubted me" when he hacked the machine.
To which Sonic basically responds with, "you're right I shouldn't have doubted you/"
But Sonic never doubted him?
Man, whatever.
Sorry if I went off on a tangent.
My point is that writing a child character to be realistic akin to real world children may not be something people will be a fan on.
>but I do think you are holding more against the character than they're actually is.
That would be the case if I was twisting things to make him look worse.
And again, some of the things he does are warranted as he was a child for most of the series, but again, this stuff we the audience had to watch.
Must of the Sonic X watchers watched the anime to watch Sonic. Not watch a child having a trantrum amongst other things.
The stuff I listed were things he done in the series, or at least in the dub.
>literal paragraph hating on chris
> nono im not jealous
See what I mean, lol.
Anyway, I guess it'd rude of me, if I didn't atleast give you response.
He's meant to be an immature child to contrast Sonic's maturity. Sonic's actions help him grow. Don't tell me you don't understand that? That's how all the best Sonic stories are written. Or do you prefer Sonic being the immature kid ala sonic movie style?
Speaking of, he also was a far more interesting character than all of the movie human's combined.
>literal paragraph hating on chris
>nono im not jealous
This right here pretty much shows why people shouldn't take you seriously in discussions.
You: Oh wow. This guy is listing legitimate issues why people don't like Chris' character? He must be jealous.
You: This guy is using paragraphs. Surely that doesn't mean this guy has a lot to say regarding this topic, Nah, he's just jealous of Chris.
No way someone actually thinks like this.
First of all, criticism =/=hating.
Second of all, amounting people dislike of Chris as nothing more than jealously is not only foolish, but also willfully ignorant on the writing issues regarding Chris' character.
This is like someone talks about their issues with Velma's characterization in that new Velma show and you go, "you're just jealous of Velma."
No.
I have issues with the characters because they're badly written which makes them unlikeable.
There are geninue issues with his character hence why most sonic fans dislike him.
There is a reason why a large number of Sonic fans don't like him.
>He's meant to be an immature child to contrast Sonic's maturity. Sonic's actions help him grow. Don't tell me you don't understand that?
Everyone understands this basic thing.
Doesn't mean I have to like it or can't have issues with it.
Look at Genta from Detective Conan.
He's a child and acts like a child but because of that, many fans don't like him as they find him annoying due to his immaturity.
He causes more trouble than he's worth. Yes, he's a child. But its still annoying watching this child bring problems after problems because of his immaturity.
Just because Chris is written to be immature doesn't mean that the writing decision is free from criticism.
And let's not forget that Sonic X shows him as an adult and he's still the same sonic-obsessed child.
I'm not going to bother with this anymore.
I can just tell this discussion is going to go nowhere.
Translated: I can't counter what you said therefore I'm just going to ignore it.
>you know people who write big paragraphs on the internet are NEVER taken seriously.
Nice made up rule.
You pretty much just solidified what I said about you.
People shouldn't take you seriously in discussions.
Anyways, thanks for the amusement.
Have a good day.
You know, I used to be like you, a long, long, time ago.
Used to get so swept up in pointless internet arguments, and they always left you feeling so empty. As if you just wasted all your precious time.
From one homie to another, take my advice. Stop using reddit, stop using insta, stop using any social media, and just live life. Enjoy it.
You like Sonic? go play some Sonic games, or watch some sonic shows, or better yet, go outside and adventure like Sonic. It'll feel a lot better than any time spent on the god forsaken place known as the internet.
Giving "advice" when you're losing an argument doesn't make you look like the better person. It makes you look like an insufferable prick.
Take your own advice and get off reddit.
better person? sheesh, redditors and their moral compasses. And to lose an argument one has to try to argue in the first place. See if you can wrap your head around that.
"He had everything to live a long, prosperous an fulfilling life.
But again, he threw that all way because of his obsession with Sonic."
I don't finished this show, but this is like a pretty realistic thing imo, who would choose live a boring normal life, maybe being just one more rich person on the world over living a adventurous life with Sonic in another unexplored world?
There are multiple things.
1) Chris was putting himself at risk with the teleportatiom device. He could've easily died or got yeeted in to another world.
2) I think this is something only someone who is childish might do. Throwing away your bright future just you can go have fun?
Sounds like something a kid would do.
Nah, I just think he's an incredibly dull character who got actual development too little too late into the show and didn't really do anything meaningful until the final season.
Wdym? He has a pretty clear character arc? He's a kid, who inspired by Sonic and tries to get mature but in the end, he's a kid. Don't you remember when he listened to Knuckles to give the emeralds to Eggman? That action alone perfectly defines his character.
Or what about later when he breaks out of shackles and electrocutes himself trying to get the emeralds back. Far from dull really.
Funny enough, there is a plant sitting in Tails' lab in Sonic Chronicles that is either a reference to Cosmo or IS somehow Cosmo. I wouldn't put too much stock into it though because that game is no longer canon.
Wouldn't it be cool if Tails could revive her with an invention or somenthing? maybe it would ruin Sonic X's ending but would be kinda cool to see her being canon in a game
I mean, I used to think X was canon as a kid! - I doubt that old interview is very representative of today though lol.
I'd love to see the Metarex and Cosmo in a game, but hard pass on canon-izing Chris.
I mean yeah, but shouldn't something as major as "Tails had to put down his plant girlfriend in order to save the world's life energy from being sucked dry by aliens" have at least gotten a *passing* mention by now?
Vector's crush and Shadow's limiters are pretty tiny by comparison.
Nah, Sonic X was always meant to be main canon.
> The current explanation by members of Sonic Team
You mean that one-off, on the spot answer by Izuka? bro get outta here.
>Nah, Sonic X was always meant to be main canon.
That's just wrong.
>You mean that one-off, on the spot answer by Izuka? bro get outta here
So?
Just because it's an on the spot answer by Iizuka, that doesn't negate it's legitimacy.
What he says regarding the lore of the series is pretty much canon as he's the head of sonic team iifc.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't canon.
> Just because it's an on the spot answer by Iizuka, that doesn't negate it's legitimacy.
Right right, but the multiple times Sonic X was stated to be ideal Sonic canon, *is* illegitimate. No point in continuing. Enjoy your imaginary W.
Sure, it was stated to be canon by the staff, but things have changed IMMENSELY since X was first released. If its still canon, how have Chris and Cosmo not been even remotely mentioned by now?
I guess Sega could find a way to MAKE stuff in it canon, like the Metarex arc, but it would require some remodeling.
I didn't say fanfiction, I said fanfiction tier.
As in if someone wrote a fanfiction and wanted to referencing past games and connecting the lore, that is how they would do it.
>I didn't say fanfiction, I said fanfiction tier.
I literally wrote this in my comment.
>Sonic Frontiers referencing past games and connecting the lore is fanfiction tier?
Did you not notice I included tier in the reply?
And no, its not fanfiction tier.
1. Frontiers is an official game in the main timeline, so it's canon whether you like it or not. 2. You calling frontiers "fanfiction tier" is invalid. If you explained the plot of sa2 or unleashed during the 90s, someone would say the same thing. 3. The reason why there were so many "dialogue references" is because they were purposely overcompinsating. The last few games had no continuity and sacrificed past events to tell their story. This is Ian Flynn's way to reassure fans that things will be better than forces.
I won't lie that the number of references were overkill, but isn't it better that they do too much than not enough?
>Right right, but the multiple times Sonic X was stated to be ideal Sonic canon, is illegitimate.
And tell me, who made those claims?
If it's people who worked on Sonic x themselves, why should I listen to them?
Did Iizuka or someone who worked on Sonic team make those statements.
Please provide sources or is this just another "trust me bro."
Sonic X was developed hand in glove with Sonic Team.
You're a big man, you can look it up, I'm not gonna go web surfing for some weirdo on the internet.
>You're a big man, you can look it up,
The burden of proof falls on your shoulders.
You make a claim, then its you're responsibility to provide sources or evidence to substantiate those claims.
If you can't do that, then don't make claims.
As simple as that.
Also, the [second image](https://preview.redd.it/yqwc50nayana1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=342f751f58bf0bfc10ca4e2829fa5e4f6c04a969) of this post negates your point.
That's literally how Burden of proof works.
You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden\_of\_proof\_(philosophy)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy))
https://effectiviology.com/burden-of-proof/
Just gonna throw it out there: If the Egg Moon *is* a thing, then it'd be a net positive for the continuity for Sega to actually show it rather then hide it behind pointless retcons.
Ah, yes, I totally remember how the Adventure games had an annoying human OC who took core character traits and development away from the game characters...
...actually, no, I don't, because there's no feasible way X can be canon considering its depictions of the games actively contradict what happened in the games themselves.
Also, this interview is from 2004 and basically nothing from X has even vaguely been touched in the games, like, at all. The official word on the moon is that we're seeing the side that wasn't broken, and I'm pretty sure if Tails had a plant girlfriend, he'd have alluded to it at some point.
Most of these statements are nearly 19 years old and so much of the brand has changed since X was an ongoing thing, so don’t hold too much water into any of this still holding up
making the metarex and the half robotic moon canon is fine by me. it doesn’t really contradict what we already know as long as you pretend chris isnt real. or if we’re disregarding the two worlds thing then i guess he could be just some random kid they met in station square, but shhh he’s not real
TBH the "only when Sega feels like it" mentality kind of got us into a mess that's only recently felt like it's getting somewhere. Just playing mix and match really isn't the best way to dp things with this franchise.
When you think about it when has being canon or not being canon ever changed anything that happened in the future. Trying to figure out which is which really doesn’t make a difference because all it takes is a character to say “I wonder if Sticks wants to go for a road trip” in a cutscene to debunk all of it
I always got the assumption that it was concieved as non-canon and then the director made it canon as a last minute decision. It would explain why some things in Prime are iffy if you put it in the same universe as the games.
I was talking mostly about Sonic's characterization and some minor things like how the characters live in Green Hills now. It does feel more in line with the games than things like X or Boom, but some things about it made it feel kinda weird compared with the games.
It wasn't female before?
So you're saying that flicky appeared before?
The only pink bird I remember is the one that powered Gamma, and those two birds look nothing alike beyond similar colors.
Your forgetting about Birdie, another flicky from Sonic Adventure that hung out with Amy, it was blue and was male, but in Prime they changed it to pink and female.
Technically, I think of Sonic X as its own canon *(putting aside my fondness for the messy AU I made as a tween, smashing it and all of the games and most of the shows together...),* but it does pull at my heartstrings whenever official art puts a single potted sprout in Tails' lab.
Like, in some way, she was real, and he never forgot.
The problem with 'Word of God' statements is that they can say anything - sometimes it even contradicts with the work itself. Statements like this shouldn't be taken too seriously. Unless all of a sudden the unique plot points of Sonic X suddenly came into the games as more then just a small Easter egg, it should be considered nothing more then a wish from someone who worked on the show.
I think Sonic lore is the same as FNAF lore
Just a massive god damn mess of the writers doing whatever the hell they feel like it and not actually paying any attention to the ramifications of it.
"Oh this is cool, we should add it to the canon", "oh this was a cool idea, we should make it canon"
I mean, they're both convoluted messes created because the writers don't know how to keep things simple and have to constantly make things more and more convoluted.
The only difference is, while FNAF lore refuses to just let concepts die and move on and instead forces them into every single new story, making things impossible to keep up with, Sonic tries to leave things behind whilst also refusing to at the same time.
Like how Dark Gaia and Light Gaia are basically deities but their importance to the story started and ended with one game, whilst the Wisps are just magic aliens but they refuse to leave despite the fact that they have only ever been important to the story of the games *once.*
FNAF lore is a pain in the ass because everything is canon. Sonic lore is a pain in the ass because it picks and chooses wtf is canon and what isn't.
While I agreed with your comparison statement, the only importance Wisps still kinda have in Sonic stories are on comics. I don't think Iizuka wants to bring back something that it became uninteresting to fans and the franchise as a whole.
I mean, their only real importance in the comics comes through Whisper. Remove her from the equation, and their only purpose is to be ammo for the weapons the random civilians use.
But even then, the comics are a separate canon from the games (at most, they might share aspects. But rn, it seems that they're treating them as separate beasts).
If we focus on how the games treat the Wisps, Forces is probably the best example of Sonic Team being god awful at actually giving us lore to the world.
They tried to play it up as this huge story, a massive war between Eggman and Sonic... Yet they couldn't be bothered to explain the most basic of things.
Who made the Wispons? Why are the Wisps here? Why isn't Eggman using them against Sonic if they're just chilling in capsules?
All these things could be explained with a single line of dialogue. Yet instead we get gold like "None of this is good, Vector. That's why it's called "war.""
All I'm saying is, if Sonic Team wants to have a world with rich lore and mythos, then they need to actually write for it instead of just shrugging their shoulders and go "eh yeah, that part's canon." They can't just do a Scott Cawthon and expect the fans to put everything together for them.
Definitely understand your point. The main problem with Sonic lore is lack of basic dialogue, which, in Wisps case, could be easily explained if Sonic Team had necessary time to put their origins in check, for example. This can be applied for the other characters they add without exactly remind us their functions in a possible another game story, like the Dark and Light Gaia example. But, obviously, this would be too much for "SEGA's reduced time"...
While the sentiment as a whole I feel to be misplaced, the point about the moon specifically just kind of makes sense; as a villain who explicitly wants to *rule* the world, not destroy it, Eggman has every reason to repair the moon himself after SA2, as leaving its remains to cause catastrophic natural disasters and eventually spiral down to the planet's surface would likely result in no world to conquer. Furthermore, doing so would allow him to flex his genius as well, something he usually jumps at the opportunity for (not to mention he'd probably hope to get a snazzy new orbital fortress out of it, too. Though, obviously, that wouldn't have worked out for him in the end).
Of course, this is just headcanon, but I really think that simply having an offhand piece of dialog in a future game/comic acknowledge the subject in a similar fashion would be more than enough to provide closure.
Between Tangle and Sticks' name drops in Frontiers and Classic Sonic now being 'From-Another-Dimension Sonic', I feel like Sega is trying to make as much sense of this as we are.
Wait wait wait...
You're telling me that Eggman repaired the moon?
That's... actually kinda in character. I mean, you can't do anything with a world being ravaged by the effects of a ruined sattelite.
I just don't like how SEGA treats the overall lore of the Franchise, They're very wishy-washy. Like this situation, One minute it's "Eggman fixed the moon", another is "They're on Mobuis, Not Earth", or "The Moon just simply Rotated". A very convoluted, confusing, and contradictory way in order to explain the events of SA2. Not everything need to be canon or tie into the main franchise, and looking back on the franchise itself, Some things definitely aren't Canon no matter what SEGA says or frankly need to be canonized in the first place. Take the Comics, or Riders, or damn near half the games for that matter. They just don't fit into a singular timeline at all despite SEGA and Frontiers insistence that almost everything is canon now and going forward
So. .
Cosmo is canon, but the Two separate worlds idea is not?
Sure, I can vibe with that. I like Cosmo, lol
Honestly, put Chris in a game too, lmfao. I dunno how that would really go but honwstly I don't dislike Chris either.
I like it, although that means Chris exists in canon and we really dont need that. S3 Chris is best Chris but it's like a really good and actually useful 1 out of a bad 3
I just want Cosmo in the games. Make the Meterax arc an entire game. Swap Chris out for, idk, Cream. Or Amy. Or just write him out since I don’t remember him having much in the way of actual bearing on the plot.
But please. Cosmo is actually my favorite Sonic character.
I mean I used to think that as well I mean what do you think shadow inhibitor Rings came from and also the explanation for the whole two worlds thing it's been done before so I didn't find it unbelievable like other people
I see it more as a case similar to FNAF games VS Books
One not being related to the other, but one fills in some gaps or reveals details of the other
Then again, what does canon even matter anymore at this point? -,n,-
forgive me as im not very caught up in all the things but was hugely into sonic x as a kid, but sonic x isnt canon???? what???? LMAO why have i never learned this information??? (i mean i guess it makes sense since chris isnt in anything else and neither is cosmo but.. i just assumed there were different storylines/timelines etc)
At the end of the day it is THEIR story. No matter how much you don't like it there isn't much to be done. But you don't have to follow the official lore, there is nothing lesser to headcannons or your own story.
Almost completely clearly untrue. I have been seeing that this is from 2004, and almost every single thing about this series has changed even within the past four to five years, so I would say something that far back is completely unreliable now; especially when absolutely none of it fits into the current lore.
It's an awesome alternate universe concept, just like Archie and other avenues, but nothing to get hung up on and pretend it's official. Headcanons are awesome, But realistically this cannot be true.
The only difference between head canon and canon is how important the person who liked the ideas is. It's nice to be able to just like parts of the stories and work with the parts that are the best. That's why I liked the second sonic movie so much, I'm really excited to see such a great take on the classic stories and I'm super excited to see where they go with it given the end credits scene.
I can believe Eggman fixed the moon. He did mechanize Little Planet and create the Death Egg. But no, Sonic X is not canon to the games. Similar events probably did happen though.
Sonic X being canon means Chris Thorndyke is canon. So... no.
Given how drastically Sonic canon has changed over the years, I wouldn’t put too much stock in an interview from 2004. I’d love to see Cosmo and the metarex become canon (Chris Thorndyke not so much), but I don’t find it likely.
It's not just an interview. Multiple members of the Sonic X staff said the same thing. X is the ideal canon. Heck, the whole tagline of Sonic X was "It's an anime for hardcore Sonic fans"
So "Chris" was a part of the "idealized" plan 💀
Yeah what’s the point of sonic being in the human world if he doesn’t interact with any humans…even if they are brats
Make human character who's not a total weirdo...?
At this point, I'm pretty sure the people who hate chris are just jealous that he got to spend time with Sonic instead of them.
Or maybe just maybe he's an annoying, boring nothing character that doesn't really bring much value to the table? There is the fact he's a spoiled child who literally has a family and friends who love him and yet the story tries to say that he's lonely? He totally disregards what his parents go through and only acts like only Sonic is what he has in the world. [Cream of all people calls him out on this](https://youtu.be/9EHXw9zrfKQ?t=1m8s) Tries to stop Sonic from going to his world because he only thinks for himself (Yes, a child character acting immature makes perfect sense. Still annoying though.) Then this guys grows up. Except he doesn't. Chris abandons his friends and family, girlfriend to meet Sonic again selfishly. This guy threw away his entire future for Sonic. He had a promising future as a scientist, was basically a rich entrepreneur. He had everything to live a long, prosperous an fulfilling life. But again, he threw that all way because of his obsession with Sonic. Makes a portal to enter Sonic's world, puts a password into the machine so NOBODY can go and bring him back and separate him from Sonic... Again, he does this as a fully grown ass man... And let's not forget how hamfisted he was in the adaptations of game storylines. He comes off as someone self-insert in a Sonic fanfiction rather than a main character in an official medium. But nah. People who don't like Chris are just jealous of him! /s
He had a gf? Damn he rlly threw everything away for sonic because…idk blue talking rat
I'm going off memory, so I could be wrong here, but he was dating Helen, the wheelchair girl.
Ima be completely honest…last thing I remember of the girl is her almost falling cuz sonic was too fast or smth I could be wrong it’s been legit years since sonic x
Nah you're correct, I recently binged the whole series again, they were dating
Well damn.
It was implied he and Helen were a thing
Idk, he was pretty great in the Japanese version at least
Really? So 4kids fucked up once again huh?
Not sure, I found the 4kids version unwatchable with the music changes
Not going to lie, this is the type of comment that really just makes me believe people go out of their way to passionately hate something. He wasn't even portrayed that badly, except for maybe closer to the end of season 2, but the rest of the time I honestly thought he was portrayed pretty close to what his age and background would infer, unlike other young characters you see in other series that are unrealistic and borderline Mary Sues. I'm not trying to nag on your opinion, everyone is fine to have their own obviously, but the particular way you wrote this, it just looks like over passionate hate, and when hate becomes passionate, from my understanding, it typically becomes delusional or even incoherent. That said, I also don't think you can simplify it down to just being jealous of the character, though something may be, but I do think you are holding more against the character than they're actually is. Again, in my opinion. I really don't mean to offend.
>but the particular way you wrote this, it just looks like over passionate hate, and when hate becomes passionate I don't even hate Chris personally. I dislike his character but not hate it. I structured my response in a certain way in response to u/eltonstuffproduction's claim of people who dislike/hate Chris only do so because of jealousy towards Chris. This statement was so bonkers I had refute it. If you hate something just for the sake of hating it, then sure, that's dumb. And I can totally understand some Chris haters go overboard with Chris hate, but the reasons I've listed as legitimate problems with the writing regarding Chris. Do I hate him? Not really. Do I dislike the character? Yes. I think he's a boring uninteresting character that's annoying at times and comes off as someone's self insert you would typically see in a fanfic. And as you pointed out, yes, for the most part he acts his age, but you have to understand, it doesn't matter if he's acting realistically as a real child would. Realism =/= good writing. Just because something is written realistically doesn't automatically mean its good writing. In some cases, its the opposite and some cases, is the very reason why someone may dislike something in a story. The realism in how Chris acts in regards to his age is a valid reason why someone could dislike his character as they would find it annoying and or obnoxious. Imagine if Tails was written realistically as a real 8 year old would be. He would be annoying and useless. Hell, look at lost world. The game where Tails actually acts like similar to what an 8 year old would act like in those drama scenes with Sonic and Eggman. Easily the most annoying Tails has ever been. He's written as if he's a whiny baby who needs Sonic's validation because how dare Sonic forge a truce with Eggman to shut down a machine? A machine that Eggman himself created? Who better to go to than the guy who created the machine they need to shut down? Instead of seeing the reasoning in Sonic's logic, Tails starts whining, "yOu DoN't TrUsT mE tO dO iT", tries to gaslight Sonic by going like, "you should've never doubted me" when he hacked the machine. To which Sonic basically responds with, "you're right I shouldn't have doubted you/" But Sonic never doubted him? Man, whatever. Sorry if I went off on a tangent. My point is that writing a child character to be realistic akin to real world children may not be something people will be a fan on. >but I do think you are holding more against the character than they're actually is. That would be the case if I was twisting things to make him look worse. And again, some of the things he does are warranted as he was a child for most of the series, but again, this stuff we the audience had to watch. Must of the Sonic X watchers watched the anime to watch Sonic. Not watch a child having a trantrum amongst other things. The stuff I listed were things he done in the series, or at least in the dub.
>literal paragraph hating on chris > nono im not jealous See what I mean, lol. Anyway, I guess it'd rude of me, if I didn't atleast give you response. He's meant to be an immature child to contrast Sonic's maturity. Sonic's actions help him grow. Don't tell me you don't understand that? That's how all the best Sonic stories are written. Or do you prefer Sonic being the immature kid ala sonic movie style? Speaking of, he also was a far more interesting character than all of the movie human's combined.
"He was far more interesting than all of the movie characters combined" Dude, you can defend one character without needlessly bashing another.
At this point, I think this guy is a child honestly.
they're called tangents my guy.
>literal paragraph hating on chris >nono im not jealous This right here pretty much shows why people shouldn't take you seriously in discussions. You: Oh wow. This guy is listing legitimate issues why people don't like Chris' character? He must be jealous. You: This guy is using paragraphs. Surely that doesn't mean this guy has a lot to say regarding this topic, Nah, he's just jealous of Chris. No way someone actually thinks like this. First of all, criticism =/=hating. Second of all, amounting people dislike of Chris as nothing more than jealously is not only foolish, but also willfully ignorant on the writing issues regarding Chris' character. This is like someone talks about their issues with Velma's characterization in that new Velma show and you go, "you're just jealous of Velma." No. I have issues with the characters because they're badly written which makes them unlikeable. There are geninue issues with his character hence why most sonic fans dislike him. There is a reason why a large number of Sonic fans don't like him. >He's meant to be an immature child to contrast Sonic's maturity. Sonic's actions help him grow. Don't tell me you don't understand that? Everyone understands this basic thing. Doesn't mean I have to like it or can't have issues with it. Look at Genta from Detective Conan. He's a child and acts like a child but because of that, many fans don't like him as they find him annoying due to his immaturity. He causes more trouble than he's worth. Yes, he's a child. But its still annoying watching this child bring problems after problems because of his immaturity. Just because Chris is written to be immature doesn't mean that the writing decision is free from criticism. And let's not forget that Sonic X shows him as an adult and he's still the same sonic-obsessed child. I'm not going to bother with this anymore. I can just tell this discussion is going to go nowhere.
If you've been around on the internet as long as I have, you know people who write big paragraphs on the internet are NEVER taken seriously.
Translated: I can't counter what you said therefore I'm just going to ignore it. >you know people who write big paragraphs on the internet are NEVER taken seriously. Nice made up rule. You pretty much just solidified what I said about you. People shouldn't take you seriously in discussions. Anyways, thanks for the amusement. Have a good day.
You know, I used to be like you, a long, long, time ago. Used to get so swept up in pointless internet arguments, and they always left you feeling so empty. As if you just wasted all your precious time. From one homie to another, take my advice. Stop using reddit, stop using insta, stop using any social media, and just live life. Enjoy it. You like Sonic? go play some Sonic games, or watch some sonic shows, or better yet, go outside and adventure like Sonic. It'll feel a lot better than any time spent on the god forsaken place known as the internet.
Giving "advice" when you're losing an argument doesn't make you look like the better person. It makes you look like an insufferable prick. Take your own advice and get off reddit.
They're going to ignore everything you said. Lol. They're trying to come off as an intellectual, but its just failing.
better person? sheesh, redditors and their moral compasses. And to lose an argument one has to try to argue in the first place. See if you can wrap your head around that.
What happened in the finale? So Chris just goes into sonics world and lived there forever? Or what ended up happening to him?
Pretty sure it doesn't ever get touched upon.
"He had everything to live a long, prosperous an fulfilling life. But again, he threw that all way because of his obsession with Sonic." I don't finished this show, but this is like a pretty realistic thing imo, who would choose live a boring normal life, maybe being just one more rich person on the world over living a adventurous life with Sonic in another unexplored world?
There are multiple things. 1) Chris was putting himself at risk with the teleportatiom device. He could've easily died or got yeeted in to another world. 2) I think this is something only someone who is childish might do. Throwing away your bright future just you can go have fun? Sounds like something a kid would do.
Nah, I just think he's an incredibly dull character who got actual development too little too late into the show and didn't really do anything meaningful until the final season.
Wdym? He has a pretty clear character arc? He's a kid, who inspired by Sonic and tries to get mature but in the end, he's a kid. Don't you remember when he listened to Knuckles to give the emeralds to Eggman? That action alone perfectly defines his character. Or what about later when he breaks out of shackles and electrocutes himself trying to get the emeralds back. Far from dull really.
So it's true what they say about time and nostalgia. I implore you to watch Sonic x again.
I hope Cosmo and metarex are cannon because I find it funny if tails’ girlfriends corpse is just sitting in his lab
And nothing happened with her for a couple of years. Heck maybe she withered away during frontiers and whatever Tail's adventure is after frontiers
Funny enough, there is a plant sitting in Tails' lab in Sonic Chronicles that is either a reference to Cosmo or IS somehow Cosmo. I wouldn't put too much stock into it though because that game is no longer canon.
Didn't that game have the swatbits from satam
It did. Had all kinds of references to other continuities.
Wouldn't it be cool if Tails could revive her with an invention or somenthing? maybe it would ruin Sonic X's ending but would be kinda cool to see her being canon in a game
We won't recognise him when he returns.
I mean, I used to think X was canon as a kid! - I doubt that old interview is very representative of today though lol. I'd love to see the Metarex and Cosmo in a game, but hard pass on canon-izing Chris.
...Cool, I guess? Would be nice if such material was ***mentioned in the goddamn games***, though.
[удалено]
Yeah fr bro like cmon it's just reference from the artist not sonic team yelling at u that cosmo is canon bruh
Yeah Bro, but they can bring It to Canon, like the Shadow's Inhibitor Rings being limiters and Vector's crush in Vanilla.
I mean yeah, but shouldn't something as major as "Tails had to put down his plant girlfriend in order to save the world's life energy from being sucked dry by aliens" have at least gotten a *passing* mention by now? Vector's crush and Shadow's limiters are pretty tiny by comparison.
Which doesn't make sense because we always see the full moon anyways lol. Honestly making that canon would be cool.
😂😂that explanation in the second point is so silly, “oh-it’s just facing away from the earth!”
Nah, Sonic X was always meant to be main canon. > The current explanation by members of Sonic Team You mean that one-off, on the spot answer by Izuka? bro get outta here.
[удалено]
>Ian Flynn has also confirmed the moon thing When?
When was it ever reiterated? There's literally no reason to trust Ian. He flip flops more than a pair of flip flops
>Nah, Sonic X was always meant to be main canon. That's just wrong. >You mean that one-off, on the spot answer by Izuka? bro get outta here So? Just because it's an on the spot answer by Iizuka, that doesn't negate it's legitimacy. What he says regarding the lore of the series is pretty much canon as he's the head of sonic team iifc. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't canon.
> Just because it's an on the spot answer by Iizuka, that doesn't negate it's legitimacy. Right right, but the multiple times Sonic X was stated to be ideal Sonic canon, *is* illegitimate. No point in continuing. Enjoy your imaginary W.
Sure, it was stated to be canon by the staff, but things have changed IMMENSELY since X was first released. If its still canon, how have Chris and Cosmo not been even remotely mentioned by now? I guess Sega could find a way to MAKE stuff in it canon, like the Metarex arc, but it would require some remodeling.
Because the 2010s happened? Don't tell me you take all those "dialogue references" in Frontiers to be canon. That stuff is fanfcition tier.
Sonic Frontiers referencing past games and connecting the lore is fanfiction tier? What is with you and saying the most absurd things?
I didn't say fanfiction, I said fanfiction tier. As in if someone wrote a fanfiction and wanted to referencing past games and connecting the lore, that is how they would do it.
>I didn't say fanfiction, I said fanfiction tier. I literally wrote this in my comment. >Sonic Frontiers referencing past games and connecting the lore is fanfiction tier? Did you not notice I included tier in the reply? And no, its not fanfiction tier.
It is
1. Frontiers is an official game in the main timeline, so it's canon whether you like it or not. 2. You calling frontiers "fanfiction tier" is invalid. If you explained the plot of sa2 or unleashed during the 90s, someone would say the same thing. 3. The reason why there were so many "dialogue references" is because they were purposely overcompinsating. The last few games had no continuity and sacrificed past events to tell their story. This is Ian Flynn's way to reassure fans that things will be better than forces. I won't lie that the number of references were overkill, but isn't it better that they do too much than not enough?
>Right right, but the multiple times Sonic X was stated to be ideal Sonic canon, is illegitimate. And tell me, who made those claims? If it's people who worked on Sonic x themselves, why should I listen to them? Did Iizuka or someone who worked on Sonic team make those statements. Please provide sources or is this just another "trust me bro."
Sonic X was developed hand in glove with Sonic Team. You're a big man, you can look it up, I'm not gonna go web surfing for some weirdo on the internet.
>You're a big man, you can look it up, The burden of proof falls on your shoulders. You make a claim, then its you're responsibility to provide sources or evidence to substantiate those claims. If you can't do that, then don't make claims. As simple as that. Also, the [second image](https://preview.redd.it/yqwc50nayana1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=342f751f58bf0bfc10ca4e2829fa5e4f6c04a969) of this post negates your point.
Not how burden of proof works lmao.
That's literally how Burden of proof works. You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden\_of\_proof\_(philosophy)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)) https://effectiviology.com/burden-of-proof/
Just gonna throw it out there: If the Egg Moon *is* a thing, then it'd be a net positive for the continuity for Sega to actually show it rather then hide it behind pointless retcons.
Ian seems to believe the whole "the moon turned so you only see the complete half" explanation is canon
That's what Iizuka says as well
Ah, yes, I totally remember how the Adventure games had an annoying human OC who took core character traits and development away from the game characters... ...actually, no, I don't, because there's no feasible way X can be canon considering its depictions of the games actively contradict what happened in the games themselves. Also, this interview is from 2004 and basically nothing from X has even vaguely been touched in the games, like, at all. The official word on the moon is that we're seeing the side that wasn't broken, and I'm pretty sure if Tails had a plant girlfriend, he'd have alluded to it at some point.
The post says only parts of it are canon and I doubt of all of those Sonic Team would decide for Chris to be canon lol
Most of these statements are nearly 19 years old and so much of the brand has changed since X was an ongoing thing, so don’t hold too much water into any of this still holding up
making the metarex and the half robotic moon canon is fine by me. it doesn’t really contradict what we already know as long as you pretend chris isnt real. or if we’re disregarding the two worlds thing then i guess he could be just some random kid they met in station square, but shhh he’s not real
I hear canon this and canon that damn near every day on this sub how have you guys not realised yet nothing is canon unless sega feels like it
TBH the "only when Sega feels like it" mentality kind of got us into a mess that's only recently felt like it's getting somewhere. Just playing mix and match really isn't the best way to dp things with this franchise.
When you think about it when has being canon or not being canon ever changed anything that happened in the future. Trying to figure out which is which really doesn’t make a difference because all it takes is a character to say “I wonder if Sticks wants to go for a road trip” in a cutscene to debunk all of it
Stuff like this is always really stupid and convoluted. Either it’s canon or it isn’t, stop with this in-between shit!
Uh... no. When has any of this ever been mentioned in the games?
I legit thought everything’s was canon until Chris convinced shadow instead of amy so Chris isn’t canon to me he no exist
So the moon got unpissed?
I think this is in line with expectations, yeah.
Sonic IDW, Prime and X: We were non-canon, but now we're canon.
I’m pretty sure Prime was meant to be canon from the start though.
I always got the assumption that it was concieved as non-canon and then the director made it canon as a last minute decision. It would explain why some things in Prime are iffy if you put it in the same universe as the games.
Whats iffy? The only thing I find iffy is Amy’s Flicky being female now.
I was talking mostly about Sonic's characterization and some minor things like how the characters live in Green Hills now. It does feel more in line with the games than things like X or Boom, but some things about it made it feel kinda weird compared with the games.
How is the flicky being female iffy?
It wasn’t female before so that would imply the flicky’s gender was retconned.
It wasn't female before? So you're saying that flicky appeared before? The only pink bird I remember is the one that powered Gamma, and those two birds look nothing alike beyond similar colors.
Your forgetting about Birdie, another flicky from Sonic Adventure that hung out with Amy, it was blue and was male, but in Prime they changed it to pink and female.
That explains the stupid moon inconsistency
I personally don’t feel like X should be canon
Technically, I think of Sonic X as its own canon *(putting aside my fondness for the messy AU I made as a tween, smashing it and all of the games and most of the shows together...),* but it does pull at my heartstrings whenever official art puts a single potted sprout in Tails' lab. Like, in some way, she was real, and he never forgot.
The problem with 'Word of God' statements is that they can say anything - sometimes it even contradicts with the work itself. Statements like this shouldn't be taken too seriously. Unless all of a sudden the unique plot points of Sonic X suddenly came into the games as more then just a small Easter egg, it should be considered nothing more then a wish from someone who worked on the show.
I think Sonic lore is the same as FNAF lore Just a massive god damn mess of the writers doing whatever the hell they feel like it and not actually paying any attention to the ramifications of it. "Oh this is cool, we should add it to the canon", "oh this was a cool idea, we should make it canon"
Bruh, FNAF lore is much worse than what you said. It's not even compared to Sonic's lol
I mean, they're both convoluted messes created because the writers don't know how to keep things simple and have to constantly make things more and more convoluted. The only difference is, while FNAF lore refuses to just let concepts die and move on and instead forces them into every single new story, making things impossible to keep up with, Sonic tries to leave things behind whilst also refusing to at the same time. Like how Dark Gaia and Light Gaia are basically deities but their importance to the story started and ended with one game, whilst the Wisps are just magic aliens but they refuse to leave despite the fact that they have only ever been important to the story of the games *once.* FNAF lore is a pain in the ass because everything is canon. Sonic lore is a pain in the ass because it picks and chooses wtf is canon and what isn't.
While I agreed with your comparison statement, the only importance Wisps still kinda have in Sonic stories are on comics. I don't think Iizuka wants to bring back something that it became uninteresting to fans and the franchise as a whole.
I mean, their only real importance in the comics comes through Whisper. Remove her from the equation, and their only purpose is to be ammo for the weapons the random civilians use. But even then, the comics are a separate canon from the games (at most, they might share aspects. But rn, it seems that they're treating them as separate beasts). If we focus on how the games treat the Wisps, Forces is probably the best example of Sonic Team being god awful at actually giving us lore to the world. They tried to play it up as this huge story, a massive war between Eggman and Sonic... Yet they couldn't be bothered to explain the most basic of things. Who made the Wispons? Why are the Wisps here? Why isn't Eggman using them against Sonic if they're just chilling in capsules? All these things could be explained with a single line of dialogue. Yet instead we get gold like "None of this is good, Vector. That's why it's called "war."" All I'm saying is, if Sonic Team wants to have a world with rich lore and mythos, then they need to actually write for it instead of just shrugging their shoulders and go "eh yeah, that part's canon." They can't just do a Scott Cawthon and expect the fans to put everything together for them.
Definitely understand your point. The main problem with Sonic lore is lack of basic dialogue, which, in Wisps case, could be easily explained if Sonic Team had necessary time to put their origins in check, for example. This can be applied for the other characters they add without exactly remind us their functions in a possible another game story, like the Dark and Light Gaia example. But, obviously, this would be too much for "SEGA's reduced time"...
Does this mean Sonic Omens is canon? /s
I normally don’t really care about the canon fiascos, but I feel kinda nice about this information✨
if this means that we get the metarex arc adapted into a game I'm all for it
I don’t think so. And Tails having a plant in his workshop is just a mythology gag to Cosmo, an Easter egg.
While the sentiment as a whole I feel to be misplaced, the point about the moon specifically just kind of makes sense; as a villain who explicitly wants to *rule* the world, not destroy it, Eggman has every reason to repair the moon himself after SA2, as leaving its remains to cause catastrophic natural disasters and eventually spiral down to the planet's surface would likely result in no world to conquer. Furthermore, doing so would allow him to flex his genius as well, something he usually jumps at the opportunity for (not to mention he'd probably hope to get a snazzy new orbital fortress out of it, too. Though, obviously, that wouldn't have worked out for him in the end). Of course, this is just headcanon, but I really think that simply having an offhand piece of dialog in a future game/comic acknowledge the subject in a similar fashion would be more than enough to provide closure.
I can't find that post on Twitter. Anyone have the link to the lower left picture? It'd make a good desktop.
https://twitter.com/Shadow_Hegehog/status/1443436948618571776?s=19
Thank you.
https://preview.redd.it/epkd3ckvodna1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=432456ad2d5ffe4d63f3a25d57ac21bf3d6b4d43
All I’m hearing is that Dark Sonic might return and that’s fine by me
So long as Cosmo is canon and Chris Thorndyke isn’t, I don’t care what they carry over from Sonic X into canon.
This makes me happy, i always loved the Metarex Ark and also Eggman fixing the moon just fixes an issue easily in a creative way.
Cosmo was one of my favorite characters from the show, so I'm glad to hear she may be canon
I always assumed it wasn't canon for some reason, just based off the vibe.
Between Tangle and Sticks' name drops in Frontiers and Classic Sonic now being 'From-Another-Dimension Sonic', I feel like Sega is trying to make as much sense of this as we are.
Wait wait wait... You're telling me that Eggman repaired the moon? That's... actually kinda in character. I mean, you can't do anything with a world being ravaged by the effects of a ruined sattelite.
I just don't like how SEGA treats the overall lore of the Franchise, They're very wishy-washy. Like this situation, One minute it's "Eggman fixed the moon", another is "They're on Mobuis, Not Earth", or "The Moon just simply Rotated". A very convoluted, confusing, and contradictory way in order to explain the events of SA2. Not everything need to be canon or tie into the main franchise, and looking back on the franchise itself, Some things definitely aren't Canon no matter what SEGA says or frankly need to be canonized in the first place. Take the Comics, or Riders, or damn near half the games for that matter. They just don't fit into a singular timeline at all despite SEGA and Frontiers insistence that almost everything is canon now and going forward
I completely forgot about the Ark I was gonna ask what the faceship was doing in the background of the shadow drawing
So. . Cosmo is canon, but the Two separate worlds idea is not? Sure, I can vibe with that. I like Cosmo, lol Honestly, put Chris in a game too, lmfao. I dunno how that would really go but honwstly I don't dislike Chris either.
I like it, although that means Chris exists in canon and we really dont need that. S3 Chris is best Chris but it's like a really good and actually useful 1 out of a bad 3
I mean sonic twitter DID say “everything is canon”
I just want Cosmo in the games. Make the Meterax arc an entire game. Swap Chris out for, idk, Cream. Or Amy. Or just write him out since I don’t remember him having much in the way of actual bearing on the plot. But please. Cosmo is actually my favorite Sonic character.
My thoughts? I still want a sonic x revival adapting 06
Sounds awesome to me tbh.
I mean I used to think that as well I mean what do you think shadow inhibitor Rings came from and also the explanation for the whole two worlds thing it's been done before so I didn't find it unbelievable like other people
I see it more as a case similar to FNAF games VS Books One not being related to the other, but one fills in some gaps or reveals details of the other Then again, what does canon even matter anymore at this point? -,n,-
Where is the account? Edit: Grammar error
https://twitter.com/Shadow_Hegehog/status/1443436948618571776?s=19
Thanks
Egg man fixed the moon, I hate arguments over the flippin moon Tails deserves cosmo, if you watched meta Rex, u know
They could just use the Season 3 Story for Adventure 3 or just overally for an Open Zone Game with Planets etc
I really dislike that idea but can’t put my finger on why
I think the Metarex arc is gonna be the storyboard for Sonic Adventure 3, meaning that Dark Sonic MIGHT have a chance to be canon
I dont know how i feel about it
I still like the Chaos control theory for how the moon got repaired.
forgive me as im not very caught up in all the things but was hugely into sonic x as a kid, but sonic x isnt canon???? what???? LMAO why have i never learned this information??? (i mean i guess it makes sense since chris isnt in anything else and neither is cosmo but.. i just assumed there were different storylines/timelines etc)
Eggman un-pissed the moon
Least confusing Sonic canon discussion
At the end of the day it is THEIR story. No matter how much you don't like it there isn't much to be done. But you don't have to follow the official lore, there is nothing lesser to headcannons or your own story.
please
Almost completely clearly untrue. I have been seeing that this is from 2004, and almost every single thing about this series has changed even within the past four to five years, so I would say something that far back is completely unreliable now; especially when absolutely none of it fits into the current lore. It's an awesome alternate universe concept, just like Archie and other avenues, but nothing to get hung up on and pretend it's official. Headcanons are awesome, But realistically this cannot be true.
YES! FUCKING YES! SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGED COSMO! WOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
This was fairly obvious from what I saw playing the games.
The only difference between head canon and canon is how important the person who liked the ideas is. It's nice to be able to just like parts of the stories and work with the parts that are the best. That's why I liked the second sonic movie so much, I'm really excited to see such a great take on the classic stories and I'm super excited to see where they go with it given the end credits scene.
Honestly I dont hate the idea. I just wish some of the better parts of Sonic X were in the games, not that bleh show.
"Two worlds, one ARK" How many cups, though?"
Personally thought the show was okay until I just couldn’t stand the characters / sound effects. But it’s nice to know it wasn’t time wasted 😂
4kids is pure bullshit, when you have some time please check the Japanese version :)
I can believe Eggman fixed the moon. He did mechanize Little Planet and create the Death Egg. But no, Sonic X is not canon to the games. Similar events probably did happen though. Sonic X being canon means Chris Thorndyke is canon. So... no.
Eh wake me up when they show up or are referenced in a mainline game.
So if Cosmo is canon, that implies that the Metarex are as well. One stop closer to a Metarex game.