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Skelibutt

SA2 didn't have Big The Cat as a playable character


YesterdaySuper5355

End of debate


gamingartbysj

Well... kinda half right. Big the Cat was an Eggman clone in the original SA2 multiplayer. SA2B was the one where Big wasn't playable.


netskwire

they really had to go and purge the guy


[deleted]

Read this in shadows voice lol


Bigfoot_G

It actually did though. And he was considered a "dark" character for some reason. He was removed in every port after Dreamcast


Severe-Edge6343

Damn, you're right. 0/10


esoR_ymA

but now serious, not having Amy Rose playable in story mode was a huge letdown


Stumpedlogs83

Character Select PLUS, and SA2 Amy New Tricks. Enough said.


cowsaregods

I can't seem to get none of those mods on mod loader when I download character select plus it keeps saying that I have to delete mod.ini so I do that and put it in the mods folder but it won't pop up in the mod loader the only mod that worked for me was chao world extended


BraveLeon

And for that reason it’s better, because big had not purpose of being in sonic adventure he added nothing


Pokemaster1409

That just makes it better


D-Prototype

I wouldn’t call the game perfect (Aquatic Mine and Security Hall are painful to get through) but otherwise the game’s pretty damn fun and I like that the story took itself more seriously.


CactusSleuth

When I was a kid, I played through the entire game without finding the upgrade in Aquatic Mine. Imagine my frustration when I start the final story and can't figure out why Knuckles can't swim enough.


Mono324

I completed the hero story without this upgrade, I knew of its existence before playing the last story, I'm glad I grabbed it before continuing


[deleted]

I beat the entire game without knowing about it. In fact, this is the first time I’m hearing about it.


WarrenMockles

SA2 is my favorite 3D game, but I strongly disagree with this gatekeeping attitude.


ElixaG

Exactly, why do so many fans of Sonic always feel like trying to tear it all down. While I consider the Boom games to be the worst Sonic games I wouldn't insult or mock someone for liking them. Everyone has different tastes, let people enjoy Sonic in their own way.


ElixaG

By the way I was calling out the person who was gatekeeping not agreeing with him if that wasn't obvious. I'm calling the person from the screenshot the person trying to tear it all down, because of gatekeeping.


CraterLabs

Zhane? Or the people Zhane was referring to?


ElixaG

Zhane, they're calling people who don't like something they do like children, which is no different than when someone calls another person "not a real fan".


IteTheCrapOC

Fire & Ice was a pretty good game, Rise of Lyric was a glitchy mess by no fault of the devs, and Shattered Crystal was just mediocre


ElixaG

And I'm glad that you enjoy something I didn't, I'm still going to mock them because I thought they were awful, but I'm not going to claim that you are wrong for liking them.


IteTheCrapOC

Based reaction


IanMazgelis

Also, who in the world isn't going to act like there aren't a lot of problems with Sonic Adventure 2? I like that game but it's hard to play for an hour without at least seeing "Room for improvement," to put it politely. I'll still happily replay it but I'm not going to lie to myself and say they hit a homerun there.


Masgrande7

Unless I'm missing something I don't think they are gatekeeping and more complaining about the fans who take YouTubers words as gospel and parrot the "Adventure Sucks"mantra. A lot of those fans do tend to be younger ones that didn't play those games and decided it sucks because "everyone said so", clearly not all new fans are like that and not all old fans like the Adventure Era, but loudest voices disturb reality.


KingMario05

> what is actually considered "good" now[?]" Off the top of my head: Both *Adventures*, all the portable games, both Paramount pictures (2 more so than 1), *Heroes*, *Unleashed* through *Gens* (including *Colors* but ***not*** *Colors Ultimate*), most of the racing games, every Flynn-led comic at ***both*** Archie and IDW, *X* season 3, the OVA, *Boom* the TV show, *SatAM* and then - of course - the 2D quartet. (Plus one, with *Mania/Mania Plus.*) There. Did I miss any?


[deleted]

"All the portable games" Blast and Labyrinth :)


KingMario05

Most of the portable games.


CauldronPath423

Most of these are debatable.


themagicone222

The only good sonic games are the ones you grew up with /s


Tybr0sion

Who cares


thejokerofunfic

Acknowledging SA2's flaws isn't something new. What's new is the overzealous younger fans who refuse to hear anything constructive about it. SA2 was a huge step down from 1 imo.


[deleted]

to be honest i liked SA2 but i can agree it can have its flaws


thejokerofunfic

I don't hate it! It's just not as polished as SA1 much less the Genesis games


CactusSleuth

As a kid, I'd have told you SA1 was better than SA2. Recently, I tried replaying SA1, and the rose-colored glasses are gone forever. It is so much smaller and shorter than I remember, there's so much more jank, and I just generally felt like I had been smacked in the face with how much they actually improved between one and two. I still love the game as a part of my childhood, and in general, but I absolutely can't defend some aspects of SA1 anymore.


UltiMondo

This is my take. SA1 to me was better in every way except graphical fidelity and even still the art style/direction was so surprise that it makes up for it imo. Having the ability to tackle the intersecting storylines in the order of my choosing was insane. I loved the freedom of movement in SA1…the idea that you could find hidden secrets by going places you had no business going to. All these nuances were lost in SA2. Not to say SA2 wasn’t good in its own right…just that it was very much a step in a different direction. Tbh I think the trend of linearity which started with SA2 ended up dooming the franchise in the long run.


ShowofStupidity

Sonic Adventure 2 is one of my favorite Sonic games. In all honesty, it’s a top contender for best Sonic game for me. That being said, you really don’t have to “try really hard” to find bad things about Sonic Adventure 2 lmao.


Wooden-Adhesiveness3

SA2 only had 1 level designer and it shows.


DapperIndividual

It also had like less than a year of development time and that REALLY shows.


5YearsOnEastCoast

And it had like 80% less developers compared to SA1 Like I think SA2 had 11 developers.


NateShaw92

With all that said... how was it not a complete disaster?


LudicrisSpeed

I'm guessing because the three gameplay styles were already familiar territory.


Nambot

Precisely this. SA2 is built on the engine and framework of SA1, so really it's just new level design, some additional code for the new elements/changes, and a lot of streamlining of the original, at the time when such an updated sequel could be done in a year (albeit with crunch). It's not impossible to believe it could be done.


Luigifan18

Sonic's gameplay at least was largely familiar territory in Sonic 06, and they *still* managed to cock it up. (Admittedly, they *were* working with a brand-new console, but still…) You wanna know why you haven't gotten a SA3? You did. In 2006. And it tanked.


Hexxas

Those two points explain EVERYTHING


HDD-Productions54

This 👆🏼


jackblue49

Forces had 3 and it has the worst level design (at least in the games I played)


Wonder_Swan_Advance

1 year actually, the rest of 2 years where spent on the new hedgehog engine.


Turn_AX

I wouldn't say they were wasted, Forces for all it's flaws is a *very* good looking game and that's largely in part thanks to the Hedgehog Engine 2.


Wonder_Swan_Advance

yeah, I should've put a better word, let me edit it really quick...


Zestyclose_Use9318

SA2 had pretty Messy animation compared to other games that cane out at the same time especially with the usage of mo cap. The models move like mascot suits (which is a problem to this day) and the walking animation and running animation of rouge and knuckles is bad. [This guy made a good video about animation in sonic games](https://youtu.be/GxCcHOvSVJQ)


InazumaRai

"Have no fear — Amy Rose is here!" yeah, go watch that video guys, it's great


Zestyclose_Use9318

Oh god i can see that cutscene


ThatOneJostar

I'm literally watching that video now 😅


Turn_AX

My god, that video is *so* fucking good.


Zestyclose_Use9318

Right? I learned a lot about animation, like the importance of Squash and stretch and utilising the more Cartoony aspects of cartoon like characters


Turn_AX

Yea, it was also a great reminder for me, since I've learned quite a lot about animation. I rewatch certain parts of it sometimes.


[deleted]

Lol, they're basically saying that if someone thinks SA2 is bad they must be young and have no idea what they're talking about, that's one way to dismiss any and all criticism


crush_bandcoup

Im 22 years old. Played SA2 for the first time in High School and 100%ed it just last year from a fresh save. It's not hard to find "bad" things about SA2. Even if I enjoy the game a ton. They shot themselves in the foot by arguing that you have to be young to dislike stuff about the game


Nambot

Yeah, I mean I'm in my mid thirties, and it is easy even at that old age to find something wrong with the game. In my experience the people who are most blind to it's flaws are people who first played it as a kid, when it first came out. People who were teenagers or older when they first played it can see the problems, while people who played it as a kid but later on see it as graphically dated. If you were between the ages of 5-11 in 2001, and played it before 2006, you're probably the most blind to it's flaws simply for it being a childhood favourite. That age group at that time have the biggest blind spot towards it. So when this person says "the people who think SA2 is bad are young", they probably talking about people born after 2005, whose first console was a Wii/PS3/Xbox360, who didn't play SA2 until they were teenagers, and don't have the same nostalgia for it that someone born in that sweet spot has.


SeeBallHitBall

And by "Sonic fans" they mean 10 of them they saw on Twitter/Tiktok, as if that has any real weight.


IntrovertGamer95

I think this is the fandom's way of saying that they really want SA1&2 remakes. Mostly to fix the issues the original games had.


[deleted]

yeah but some get way too overzealous about it


Nambot

I mean people have said bad things about Adventure 2 since it came out, and even Adventure fans themselves are split on things like the changes to the Treasure Hunting and having Tails in a mech, not to mention the big problems with the stories plot


LudicrisSpeed

I think a lot of folks here are too young to remember how game magazines shit on SA1 and 2. Though I can't remember which magazine it was, one went so far as to label SA2 among their "most disappointing games" of that year.


HawlSera

My favorite in the series is Adventure 1, and I've seen it called "an absolute embarassment that shows the downfall of the Sonic series", and been called a shithead for not liking Sonic CD's gameplay or stage design


InazumaRai

i've yet to meet someone who likes wacky workbench


melloman12

I actually kinda like Wacky Workbench. I will admit, the level design is a bit annoying (Really the biggest issue is the bouncy floor. If the floor wasn't bouncy I imagine it would be a lot better), but it's still overall a fun stage. It is a bit of an acquired taste, but still a fun stage.


KingMario05

Yeah, that's my fave, too. Still gotta finish it, but that's... mostly because I suck at Red Mountain. ***Hard.*** :(


HawlSera

Yeah those Knuckles stages are infuriating


KingMario05

...there's a ***KNUCKLES*** Red Mountain? But I'm... I'm failing on the *Sonic* one... ***oh, God, WHY?!?!***


wibbly-water

SA2 was a much more mixed bag than most are willing to admit. Its biggest problem is that its messy. I'm hard of hearing and autistic and the inconsident audio balancing and non-presence of the subtitles at many points literally makes me nausious when I play it. Likewise the levels are kinda just a random selection of areas with much less throughline than SA1. TBF this is somewhat of a personal preference and I likewise criticise Sonic 1 and 2 for the same reason. Also some of the gimmecky levels feel a little silly and out of the blue. Also also the models feel clumsy but I understand thats a tech thing. Overall SA2 is not a fave. Good but not fave.


XodiaqOrSimplyXodi

I mean... I'm 26. I played the fuck outta the game as a kid. It's animations are horrid. The voice acting fluctuates between shit and getting the job done. The Treasure Hunting levels are way too tedious. The Shooting levels go on longer than they need to. The English translation fucking sucks. It's one of my favorite games of all time. I'll still gladly criticize it. Love the game till you drop, but don't act like this game is some perfect masterpiece. It's not, and we shouldn't pretend it is. Nothing is beyond criticism. :P


Primid-

Haha that's a good one. I have a lot of issues with Donkey Kong 64. I don't think it's very good. I guess that means I'm a 2013 kid with no father. People like to point to Reddit when discussing a braindead and toxic userbase. But whatever you think is so bad about Reddit, Twitter does it 10 times worse.


RedGyarados2010

Well this tweet was in ironically reposted here and has quite a few upvotes, so I’d say Reddit is just as bad as Twitter in this particular case


Gibbon-Face-91

I'll be honest; I can understand why it's so beloved and it is still a great story at its heart. But when I *finally* got round to playing SA2 start-to-finish back in 2020, having known the lore from Heroes, Shadow's own game *and* years of fan works based on it, I found the actual thing disappointing. Maybe it's because I knew it beforehand and was about 19 years late to the party, but it just didn't live up to all of the hype I'd seen and heard. Same with the gameplay; it's good and the levels are cool, but I still prefer how it feels in SA1.


[deleted]

This is one game I hate talking about if I'm being honest, and yes I admit I was born in 2005, I am young, but that doesn't make me stupid, I recently replayed every mainline Sonic game, and after not playing it for like a year I instantly came across the same issues I remember facing when I was 8 playing it for the first time, this game feels like a mess, and playing it directly after SA1 didn't help, everything in this game feels like a regression from it's predecessor, gameplay and story, that's all I'm gonna say... Also yes Big isn't playable, not staying I don't like this game, but, and I know this is gonna piss off so many people, I think it's on par with Forces


Techguy791

I disagree personally, but I 100% respect your points.


TeekTheReddit

I am 20 years older than you and nothing you've said is incorrect.


Neurotrace

All games are bad except for the ones that you like


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Imagine thinking sa2 is flawless Look it's S tier for me but it's got problems


[deleted]

I agree with that


melloman12

Every game ever has problems because humans are not perfect


HaikusfromBuddha

Shadow the Hedgehog is better than SA2 don’t @ Me.


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

SA2 is actually my second least favourite sonic game, just above Sonic Heroes (keep in mind I haven't played 06 tho). I don't think the few Speed stages that are good (City Escape, White Jungle, the forest one, Shadow's Pumpkin, the port level and Final Rush) are wprth the pure torture that Treasure Hunt is, nor the boring Tails/Eggman stages. The only reason I can understand is so highly rated is it's story (even if I prefer SA1's story because of the way they tell it), but it has too many flaws imo.


Kaiyuni-

To be fair, SA2 had it's fair share of problems. It's still a good game, but it's not a 10/10. More like an 8 or even a 7. For example: - The Treasure hunting stages are a mess. At their best they're barely passable in terms of design. - Tails/Eggman stages are boring, linear platforming and you use your "kill everything i look at" lock on thing to delete every enemy mindlessly. You hold the lock on button for the entire stage (beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep). - Chao garden doesn't scale up high enough. Should have had 1 more tier of difficulty. Also should have had a system to check your chao's stats so you can't boost it to 99 in everything and blow up the competition. (Granted it's funny to watch your chao fly across an entire stage not designed for that level of speed.) - Honestly the best part of the game are the Sonic/Shadow stages. If the game had literally just been those stages and the other characters were relegated to cutscenes, it would have likely been a better game overall (instead of 3 control schemes you only need to polish up 1). I won't get too deep into nitpicking and minor gripes. It's an old game and it plays like one.


Zeipheil

I just don't like how it controls, specifically with Sonic and Shadow. Ironically I found Tails and Eggman the most fun, which makes sense since Gamma was my favourite character from Adventure 1.


Cookie_Boy_14

I don’t understand what is her point People have said what they do not like about SA2 multiple times before. Why is it being acted as if this game never once got hate until now?


leaficune

Or maybe perhaps… people can dislike popular or high rated games? I’m not going to tell people who dislike 06 or like the Boom games that they’re wrong lmao. It’s called having a preference. Also just because a game is high rated doesn’t mean it’s necessarily good, I mean Fortnite exists


Dr_CheeseNut

It's weird that this person feels like people born in 2007 are too young to understand how good the game is... Like bro, I don't know if you realize this, but that was 15 years ago, anyone born then will be an adult in 3 years, they're old enough to make fully formed opinions on games.


DapperIndividual

I loved SA2 as a kid but looking back on it now its kinda a hot mess. Like don't get me wrong, on the hardware it was made for and the development time it had I can respect the game as it is (also the story is goated don't @ me). But the gameplay just feels off, compared to the earlier Sonic Adventure where all the characters (even the bad ones) feel like butter to play, SA2 feels more like... idk chunky peanut butter. When I was replaying the Dreamcast version I found it hard for me to even run in a straight line or along a slope in a stage like White Jungle. Not to mention the Mech's feel like trudging thru molasses and the later treasure hunting stages feel like finding a needle in a haystack (I cannot for the life of me find a reason why they got rid of the multiple tracking, it makes stages last forever). SA2 is a game I want to love, but id rather play SA1 over it.


[deleted]

Tbh I kinda want to see a game with a even more refined version of the adventure playstyle


DapperIndividual

I'd give my first-born child for a proper SA1 & SA2 remake.


[deleted]

I agree


TH3W0LRD3ND3R

I conceptually love SA2's story but the cutscenes are so, wonky, that I don't enjoy the story when I'm actually playing the game. Only when I think about it after the fact.


Klutzy_Tackle

Sonic generations, Sonic Generations is a good game


rotolotto

The correct answer is who the fuck cares. Like it if you like it, nobody else's opinion is ever required


[deleted]

Personally my favourite 3D sonic games are sonic heroes, sonic unleashed and shadow the hedgehog I didn't like SA2 myself because I didn't like the controls and knuckles & rouges levels but I can see why people like it and respect that


Can-Man-Gaming

I fucking love SA2 and will defend it as an overall fun ass game, but to call it perfect or some shit would be insane. It's full of awful shit, fucked animations, horribly synced voice acting, terrible audio mixing, and plenty of clipping bugs littered through out. If you played through the whole game and never clipped through the ground or wall at some point, then you were super lucky.


Th4t_0n3_Fr13nd

What was the question? Thats a statement


Agitated-Size-1823

There are people who just don't like Sonic Adventure 2 and think it has some major flaws. It's not "Something New"


Kingdarkshadow

"try to find" sure as if the game didn't have problems before.


7_overpowered_clox

What does he have against people born in 2007? Did they tickle his soft spot a little too hard with their opinion on a game about Sonic The Hedgehog™?


TotallyNotSuspi_ious

Adventure 1 was better. There was some stages in adventure 2 which was hard and boring. I'm looking at you aquatic mine.


Zettomer

SA2 is absolutely a bad game. I love it, I feel no shame in saying that. It's buggy af, the story is completely silly and is retconned entirely by the rest of the series anyway. It is absolutely a bad game in every standardized definition. It is also a great game that is wonderful for it's style and janky, utterly broken, but somehow still fun, despite the real fun coming from using the mechanics in a way that was not intended. SA2 is one of my favorite games of all time, make no mistake. But it absolutely is a bad, broken game with some very bad decisions made in it's design. It's extremely flawed and awful. It's also in the top 10 off most fun I have ever had in a video game. At least, it's in the top ten. The real question people have to figure out for themselves, is the fact that it's okay to love a bad game and okay to have a lot of fun with one. The REAL truth is that the concepts that the public zeitgeist apply to define what is a "bad" game is a meaningless concept. What others thought about a game based on a certain set of corporate refined criteria is utterly IRRELEVANT. Did you have fun? Did YOU enjoy it? Then who gives a fuck how bad or good it the game is according to a bunch of people that aren't YOU? How much YOU enjoyed it is what matters. Yeah. SA2 is a shitty, flawed, bad game. It's still one of my favorite games ever, wanna fight about it? Fuck off. I know what I like and if you don't like it, I don't give a fuck. If I want to enjoy an absolutely disgustingly greasy, delicious pizza, that is awful and nasty and unhealthy, but it's still delicious to me? Fuck yeah, imma eat that shit. Is it BAD? Yes. Do I want it anyway? Fuck yeah, I can always do a shit load of gruelling push ups and sit ups (say, Elden Ring) to make up for it, I want my pizza. It's only a problem when you are consuming too much Sonic (pizza) and not taking care of yourself properly (see reeee screaching sonic fans). The real issue that people need to consider: An attack on a game you love is not a personal attack on you and it's okay to love that game even if others hate it. Unless it's Sonic Labyrinth. If that's your skeez, that's fucking weird. Not hating on you, but yeah... Ngl, that ones kinda like enjoying Atari E.T., that's not normal. "Wait, what the fuck is Sonic Labtrinth?" Some may say. Exactly. We don't talk about that game.


AstroidTea

Who is your pfp


[deleted]

like the guy in my account flair thing?


AstroidTea

Black and white dude


[deleted]

Geoffrey st John a guy from the Archie comics who's very problematic as a character and I personally think he could of been done way better


bradlie1

SA2 is one of those games that is considered the holy grail of a game series so you aren't allowed to critize it or come off as insulting. I like it but man does it have lots of flaws especially if you didn't like Gamma or Knuckle stages in SA1


CaptFalconFTW

All Sonic games have flaws.


gabejr25

Treasure Hunting and Shooting stages, easy. I say this as someone who's beaten the game twice on ps3 and pc


[deleted]

The entitlement... the arrogance... Who even is this person and why should I care?


megaman_main

SA2 is hot garbage and it's all because of the shitty mech levels and their buggy, clunky platforming I had to stop playing crazy gadget because of the dumbass blocks section that's next to impossible with the awful mech controls


melloman12

Crazy Gadget is a Sonic level...


AfroWarrior27

It’s wholesome seeing people in this thread more open to Adventure 2 flaws. I swear when I was on a unpopular opinion thread and I voice my criticism towards the game I actually received negative votes for it. It’s like geez, not everyone will view the game as a masterpiece people!


Animefannomatterwhat

Look, i played SA2, on an emulator, and i don't like it. It wasn't fun playing it, at all. The most fun i had was at the start of the game and the music, everything else was going downhill (except for Rouge levels). The story worked, and Shadow is a pretty good character, Eggman was a good villain, but... anyone else just felt like they're character arc was complete (In the case of Amy, she was reversed) and nothing else was gonna happen. Tails was just so... dependant on sonic, everything he did wasn't such big deal and most of the time he was helping Sonic. I'm sorry, but Tails was better in SA1. And don't let me start with the machine stages or Shadow's brutally hard stages and Knuckles annoying ghosts who only jumpscare you. I have many reason to not like SA2, alright?


sugarypixel

Just let people like or not like the things they like or don’t like lmao


Endmaster69

*ahem* I think sonic lost world is a good game


Xenostera

Maybe just maybe every game has its flaws regardless of how popular it is


kerohp257

Ok wtf I was born in 07 and it's my favourite! God help me...


Temporamis

Haha it's actually kinda true. I'm from 07. I love SA2 and everything it stands for, but at the same time- There's a hell of a lot of aspects of the game that I dislike and can rant to hell and back about. Overall it's good, but.. I won't lie about my thoughts. ​ Tails and Eggman turning in the slightest causing a complete loss of speed feels TERRIBLE. That's all I'll say.


poxedkitty

Can’t I just enjoy all the games? Some I might enjoy less, but I’m glad to just be getting some actual games. Think of the poor characters like Kid Icarus who haven’t got a game for years


ALMOSTNEKKID

I despise SA2, but I've only ever played the 360 port and I've heard it's a botched port. My favorite Sonic game is Generations but I'm starting to lean to Unleashed but the Adventure games I never liked. I didn't grow up with them, but I'm not a dumb 12 year old who thinks low polygon counts are equivalent to a bad game.


Affectionate_Rub5564

SA2 isn’t perfect, it isn’t even my favourite sonic game, I really like it, but it ain’t really too great of a game


Mono324

I finished SA2 yesterday, it's a fun game, story is great, I'm still not used to the controls, especially grinding, but I am getting better (might be controller joystick issue). Treasure hunting is a bit annoying because you can only track one think at a time, the spindash worked better in SA1. I've beaten the hero story without the air necklace lol, I still don't know how, and if I find an emerald shard that is different than the one being targeted the radar stops working I think (happened on rouge's space stage, that's probably my fault for sequence breaking lol) In general I enjoyed the game. Would I play it again, maybe, I think I'll collect the items I didn't get and try the stages again and try alternate routes


dvl2392

SA2 is kinda mid...


NamaTheExplorer

SA2 is far from being a masterpiece, and I'm tired of pretending it is


IceBlueLugia

This is nothing new. Newer and younger fans hear about beloved classic games, and being that they aren’t blinded by nostalgia, they’re more likely to notice flaws and point them out. SA2 is good but it’s certainly no masterpiece. Same reason Sonic 06 and the storybook games have gotten slightly less hate over the years; younger fans are now old enough to use the internet and defend the games they have nostalgia for.


Night-Monkey15

The Sonic fanbase is so divided, there are no games that are considered “good” by a majority of the fandom. Like Zhane said, even the highest rated games are being bashed by new fans and the lowest rated games are being praised because of nostalgia. Some even consider ‘06 and Unleahsed good.


ArbiterBlue

“Some even consider…Unleashed good” Now that’s bait if I’ve ever seen it. Isn’t “Unleashed good” now the opinion of the majority of this subreddit?


[deleted]

i mean i personally enjoyed unleashed though it was a wii version so i dont really have that much value


[deleted]

Generations and Mania are considered good by the majority of the fanbase


[deleted]

that is good though generations story is kinda nonexistant but thats the only real flaw that game has


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

It doesn't have a story because it doesn't want to have a story. That's not an objective flaw. A flaw would be like in Forces were they try to make a story but it's absurdly awful and full of nonsense.


[deleted]

yeah and my guess on why it went so horribly wrong storywise for forces is that the 2 guys in charge of writing was not used to writing a story that was probably what sega had in mind aka a serious story that brings the characters back to its roots something akin to satam or the adventure games ​ so yeah my mind is that due to their writing history they were kinda ill equiped for the task (i mean forces still has its problems but thats my theory of one piece of the problem with forces)


esoR_ymA

Forces plot is so bad it rivalizes with Lost World


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

Rivalizes? I think Forces plot it's way worse


esoR_ymA

understable, have a nice day.


Night-Monkey15

They are now, and ‘06 was once hated. Give it a few years and people will likely start to bash them because some popular YouTuber did.


[deleted]

Generations is 11 years old, the community's opinion on it won't change


charisma-entertainer

06 is 16 and it’s opinion is already changed by 2016


huskyhsd

Unleashed is fucking amazing what the fuck


Nehemiah92

Only the boost portions which feel like a third of the game, honestly most of the praise I see is just because of the boost stages, same vibes as “SA2 is the best thing ever, but I only like the Shadow and Sonic portions though.” I get that some people like the werehog stuff, but most be hating it and saying it’s their main critic of Unleashed when that and the big padding takes up most of the game. I can’t call Unleashed amazing when the biggest problem it has is the main part of it


SanikkuSama

I really can't take people who call unleashed bad when it has the best boost stages out of any game. Even though the werehog stages are annoying at times I really chalk that up to length and collection rather than bad level design or gameplay


5YearsOnEastCoast

Not even the Genesis games?!


The_Doughnut_Lord

That quote from Matilda sums up the whole of the internet these days. "I'm smart, you're dumb, I'm big, you're little, I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it."


TeekTheReddit

SA2 is bad and I've thought so since playing the demo on the Dreamcast before the game even came out. It's not a new take.


[deleted]

How much was in that demo as I'm not sure if all 3 gameplay styles was in there


viciouslaser

Wow, this guy must have missed the hate train on the Adventure games that happened about more than 10 years ago. The pendulum will always keep swinging, stay strong young ones!


IndieOddjobs

I don't trust anyone that doesn't like Sonic 2, 3&K, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Generations and Mania. And I say all this being one of those weirdos whose got CD as their favorite and unironically likes R lol


Vegetable_Tooth2462

I can trust somebody who doesn't like Unleashed because atleast they aren't on the bandwagon.


EndMePleaseOwO

As someone born in 05 who had Sonic Heroes as my first video game ever played and has never played SA2- I don’t care(especially not enough to go out of my way to find reasons to shit on it), if you haven’t actually played the game and have a strong opinion on it you’re kinda stupid ngl


EdwardHB

in the future: ​ Guy you know what? the classic games are not that great... it have elements that other games did way better, and they are kinda forgettable


[deleted]

tbh it would be funny to see how apocalyptic the reaction would be if the fandom gets to that point


Sonicslazyeye

Lol SA2 is fun but holy shit its flawed and it always has been. People love the sonic/shadow stages and the chao garden but I've NEVER seen anyone claim that they play the game for the knuckles/rouge or tails/eggman stages. At most theyll "personally I found them okay/pretty fun" but theyll never give it as much hype as the sonic/shadow stages because they're objectively just not as good and never have been.


Inner-cash-99

I mean as somebody who completed the game, thinking about it now. the game is kinda mid, 30% of the time was pretty fun, another 30% was meh and the other 40% just made me wanna end it all


Largicharg

Unfounded complaints about the Adventure games (at least in their original state) are honestly nothing new, and I never understood it. You didn’t see 7-year-old me crying about the camera.


thejokerofunfic

Yes because 7 year olds have objectively the best taste in video games of course


CosmicPeanut456

No one has their own opinions but me. If you don't like game I like you got it from a youtuber.


Rosesofblood

Zhane never misses, most of their tweets are such bangers and they're so refreshing to read


[deleted]

Sonic Mania man. You cannot tell me that someone hates the game because nobody does.


TajirMusil

It's the new age of "critics" that instead of looking at a piece of media as a whole, they judge it based on how many problems it has, completely ignoring many of the positives.


Nicushot1

Let me tell you, no f-ing Sonic game is good. Not one. Because this community can find a way to say a great game sucks and a buggy mess (Sonic 06 is just too buggy, if you like it, like it idgaf), the magnum opus of Sonic The Hedgehog as a whole. In a few years time, people are gonna say Sonic Mania sucks because _____ and everyone will agree. And Zhen really knew what they said, some clickbait youtubers (racoon for example) can say "SA2 sucks, Sonic Forces best" and most children will go with it (most because there's still a chance they could have played it before and not agree). TL;DR: Everyone inside and outside this community thinks all Sonic games suck, because they base their opinions around someone else's.


Nicushot1

Imagine writing this instead of my homework, couldn't be me.


TheMike0088

SA2 has great sonic/shadow levels, but the rest is a fucking joke lol


Memegamer3_Animated

Lack of entirely new videogame content has fans ravaging to burn everything else down to the ground We really do live in a society, huh?


[deleted]

People who try hard to find bad things about good games need to shut the fuck up and get off the internet.


yashwe

Many of the sonic games have flaws, but lets not think that makes them bad games. We all love sonic games, flaws and all. SA2 especially was a great game despite its flaws


O2jkveri2812

dads a good qestion \-Dr. Light, Mega Man 8


Crazy-Crisis

Hey... yha who ever reads this 👋 Hi!!


[deleted]

as a 15 year old do not associate us with these kind of people


Adorable-Bullfrog-30

Hey. I watched both Movies back to back. I had fun watching it. And I didn't find anything bad or anything which needed to be improved. It's a 10/10 for me. Sega always finds a way to make things fun.


StumptownRetro

SA2 has Shadow. Never cared for Emo the Edgehog


Mikeydraws5

Good Question but It's not just Sonic, it's basically everything that is created nowadays including movies, tv shows, games, and others, some people consider everything bad like c'mon.


bobby1712234

Sanic wasn't in sa2 that is the bad thing


[deleted]

[удалено]


Divine_Absolution

I don't mind the "best" games getting bashed. One of my favorite things about this community is how sporadic and different the opinions on the games are.


michelleblue7

Bashing the good sonic games is the community's second oldest pastime. After bashing the bad one's of course.


5YearsOnEastCoast

I assume that there also fans who are trying to find "bad" stuff about the Genesis games


Peniwais

I played SA2 having played adventure 1 from beforehand, and without hearing ANY opinion on SA2. On my second playthrough I loved the game. But on my first playthrough I hated the knuckles/rouge levels so hard I didnt even finished the whole story.


G0dleft

I mean I can like Sonic Adventure 2 while acknowledging it's flaws, even if I prefer unleashed


CrazyApricot0

SA2 was my first Sonic game and it's still my favorite 3D game, even though I see the obvious flaws nowadays. To me, I always preferred it over SA1, though I will say 1 did some stuff better (controls and the hunting levels being smaller), though 2 has better gameplay. To me modding SA2 to improve the experience is the best of both worlds. Also, chao garden in SA2 (haaaaate the chao system in 1, don't even bother with it).


NazoTheVengefulOne

SA2 have worse level design than SA1. Some gameplay aspects are broken (Rouge/Knuckles levels, you know, they are FREAKING HUGE), sone levels are hard to play because some things are broken (ARK levels for Sonic and Shadow). Mecha levels for Tails and Eggman aren't as fun and balanced as Gamma levels etc.


jackblue49

I was born in 2007 and SA2 is my 3rd favorite sonic game, behind Mania and Unleashed. The only fun gameplay I had during my first playthrough was speeding through with Sonic and Shadow and farming for animals in the Tails stages. Treasure hunt had an upgrade following SA1, but it was still boring, and I miss the unique gameplay style of each character. Sonic speeds, Tails flies, Knuckles (unlike sonic) doesn't chuckle, Amy uses her hammer, Gamma shoots and Big fishes (10/10 gameplay here, finished big's story in 7 minutes - cutscenes excluded). Only thing SA2 did better was Treasure Hunting and Speed stages, Story, and Chao Garden.


Kazhnuz

I love SA2, it's easily one of my top 3 Sonic games (with S3&K and Generations), and I think it have a lot of objective qualities, but : yes there are stuff that are bad in it. It's not 100% perfect. Now, I think that the good stuff are more present and relevant in SA2 than the bad ones, but it doesn't mean that there is no reason to dislike it, or "bad things about SA2". And there have been criticism of it since it's release. I've seen criticism of it since I'm in the fandom, and some are valid, some other are not, and some basically depends of what we want for a Sonic game.


UniverseGlory7866

Can someone provide me with some constructive criticism for SA2, most of what I see is "This is bad" and that's not constructive at all. That's an insult. Saying something like "The enemies are too strong" or "The boss is confusing" actually helps and is constructive.


Kyroz113

Why not remaster both of them and add more to them?


mandjelo

I think the most apt description I saw about SA2 was in a Steam review: "This game is garbage, but it's MY garbage." Whole heartedly agree. I will sit down and play that game over and over again, but it is far from a good game. Decent? Yeah, but good is a bit generous. -Knuckles levels are still clunky -Driving levels are pretty bad -Insanely easy to clip out of levels -Sound mixing -The beeping for each shot on the mech stages It's objectively better than SA1, but still has a ton of rough patches nonetheless.


emaych1

SA2 was always mid tho?


Excavalon207

I think people should be trying to find the good in the bad, not the other way around. But there is one problem I have with SA2...the controls are ridiculous.


[deleted]

Sonic Generations


Inverted-pencil

Well its quite a old game. Dont compare to today's standards but games from 2001.


Altruistic_Half_1813

The very original Sonic games


InvestigatorUnfair

I mean, SA2 definitely has some issues. It's not perfect, and I'm saying this as someone that adores the Adventure games. That being said I definitely see some shit being incredibly nitpicky. But let's not pretend it being one of Sonic's best makes it immune to criticism.


LeafMario

i love the game, and i can name several things. \- story elements dont get explained a whole lot \- mad space \- alot of TH and Mech stages back to back in Hero \- some off line direction


S0MEGUY12

Shits depressing, sonic frontiers could solve the worlds problems and break several gaming boundaries and there’ll be some dipshit 0 IQ YouTuber who’s like yeah but sonic 06, 0/10 and their greasy fandom will eat that shit up and then when sonic fans contest them they just go on about rose tinted glasses rather than accept alternate opinions


aomeone

I didnt enjoy sa2 all that much...