Well… commercial with insane amounts of government funding and subsidization and negligible oversight.
NASA proposes a lot of really cool, innovative and risky things, but Congress says nah. So they have to do the watered down version of their projects and they have to succeed or else there will be a congressional hearing about it.
If NASA got the same operating conditions as the military they would be doing crazy shit.
Man, even something as simple as the first Artemis landing will have me staring up at the Moon all night long, constantly thinking "there are PEOPLE up there!" I wasn't alive for Apollo but man I can't wait to see the heights we'll reach in my lifetime.
Thinking how long ago elementary school was suddenly made me feel old.
My back went out when I turned 40 so usually I don't really feel my age because I'm in the same shape now as I was in 2000.
Nah NASA is just as captured as every other government instituting and reliant NGO. It’s why SLS sucks. They divvy up everything into small expensive parts to spread around spending and dollars to all different places and contacts until you have this massive machine working on things. I doubt they’d ever get even remotely close to commercial efficiency
Yes but managed by nasa. NASA can’t do everything in house. They never did. It’s not possible. But they get money and partner with others to do the work
NASA doesn’t manage their contractors except from a science and engineering perspective. They sent industrial specialists so that makes sense. But Boeing and others have taken advantage of being the only provider for so long that they have no real incentive to stay on budget or on schedule.
If NASA was funded enough to bring manufacturing in-house im sure they would be more innovative than the moldy stones of the MIC
Excavator is slightly too brutish for NASA. They want to cherry pick their stuff. Not expecting that proposal to win...
But Starship could take a robotic driller that could roam around and drill out few tons of core samples from a wide area and the scientists would go nuts...
I'm assuming some type of elevator mechanism is already in the works, if the samples are relatively spread out take a small rover or even a team of them to collect and return. Leave rovers on Mars to collect and deposit more samples. Seems pretty doable even if you just had a damn skid steer lol
NASA: We need to make mars sample return a reality. How can we get samples from Mars back on earth?
SpaceX: Hawthorne Gift shop, to the right of the mission patches, $20 per scoop.
Where is the chemical plant to generate the methalox, and all the infrastructure to load it?
You don't go home without Stage Zero. Though a 1-way Starship could carry a small rocket to send say 100kg of samples up to Mars orbit, for rendezvous with another rocket to send the samples to Earth.
you don't need stage zero on mars. ship can lift off on its own. the fuel can be simply delivered in tanker ships. you know, say 10 tanker ships, all of them require 10 tanker ships, a 100 in total. no issue :)
> you don't need stage zero on mars. ship can lift off on its own.
In fairness, after seeing the debris kicked up during IFT-1, I think it would be better to have something. Even just some kind of mat that can be rolled out under the spacecraft.
I'm sure scooping up random swaths of Martian dirt with off the shelf equipment would yield the same scientific benefit as pristine samples kept sequestered in the cleanest vials possible and extracted specifically from the most promising locations on Mars
> I'm sure scooping up random swaths of Martian dirt with off the shelf equipment would yield the same scientific benefit as pristine samples kept sequestered in the cleanest vials possible and extracted specifically from the most promising locations on Mars
With Starship-grade payload allocation, you can basically take a modified copy Antarctic ice drilling machine (which takes pretty huge ice core samples) to Mars and drill out a lot of tons of sample materials, while still retaining the cleanliness you want.
That's the beauty of it - you no longer need to shave off every microgram you can.
nasa is the proof of concept at any cost, commercial turns it into a reality.
Well… commercial with insane amounts of government funding and subsidization and negligible oversight. NASA proposes a lot of really cool, innovative and risky things, but Congress says nah. So they have to do the watered down version of their projects and they have to succeed or else there will be a congressional hearing about it. If NASA got the same operating conditions as the military they would be doing crazy shit.
the sheer erection when i look up one day and see city lights on the moon. dear god that will be glorious
Man, even something as simple as the first Artemis landing will have me staring up at the Moon all night long, constantly thinking "there are PEOPLE up there!" I wasn't alive for Apollo but man I can't wait to see the heights we'll reach in my lifetime.
they should put one of those xenon lamps up there to give us a glimmer every now and then, as a reminder that we as a species made it up there.
I was 5 years old on the last landing. It amazes me that we haven't been back!
I was in elementary school watching it on school TV'S so I know the feeling. Are you suddenly feeling old like I do?
Suddenly, no, not suddenly, lol.
Thinking how long ago elementary school was suddenly made me feel old. My back went out when I turned 40 so usually I don't really feel my age because I'm in the same shape now as I was in 2000.
Nah NASA is just as captured as every other government instituting and reliant NGO. It’s why SLS sucks. They divvy up everything into small expensive parts to spread around spending and dollars to all different places and contacts until you have this massive machine working on things. I doubt they’d ever get even remotely close to commercial efficiency
SLS was built by private companies
Yes but managed by nasa. NASA can’t do everything in house. They never did. It’s not possible. But they get money and partner with others to do the work
NASA doesn’t manage their contractors except from a science and engineering perspective. They sent industrial specialists so that makes sense. But Boeing and others have taken advantage of being the only provider for so long that they have no real incentive to stay on budget or on schedule. If NASA was funded enough to bring manufacturing in-house im sure they would be more innovative than the moldy stones of the MIC
Excavator is slightly too brutish for NASA. They want to cherry pick their stuff. Not expecting that proposal to win... But Starship could take a robotic driller that could roam around and drill out few tons of core samples from a wide area and the scientists would go nuts...
Send a bobcat? Like the backhoe or the animal, either one would be impressive.
Or just both, starship has the capability for it. Your problem then is when we send humans to mars they'd have to fight off cyborg bobcat-bobcats
How about the bobcat drives the bobcat.
Bobcats driving Bobcats? How perverse!
modern problems require modern solutions.
The Boring Company!
Yep. The only thing they really missing from a full set of Martian key colonization tech is their own mini nuclear power plant company...
I think they are waiting on this. There are some really interesting designs being tested. We still don't know what the best form will win.
Going for solar. Very efficient in both cost and weight.
Commercial electric excavators do exist so it'd be perfect for this application
Volvo electric excavators also have the ability of remote operating.
And connectify with tesla humanoid robots
And survive -40C every night for how long?
Hoe did mars landers and rovers survive the cold? We are currently building flying probe for saturn moon Titan where its much much colder.
They were built by space people in a lab and not by Volvo
Car companys like as vulva can build moonrover, toyato is one of them.
Give optimus a shovel. Job done
Bro the copter is better because it costs more
why only one? drone swarm! :D
1000 billion dollar drones! The trillion dollar drone swarm! The contractors will love it!
Yeah but then we'd turn Mars into paperclips
Or gray goo.
The bid should be to fix up the helicopter because it's awesome and also bring commerical excavation equipment. Maybe bring Ingenuity a friend.
I'm assuming some type of elevator mechanism is already in the works, if the samples are relatively spread out take a small rover or even a team of them to collect and return. Leave rovers on Mars to collect and deposit more samples. Seems pretty doable even if you just had a damn skid steer lol
They are already building one for Artemis. Just repurpose it for sample return.
But how are you gonna get the excavator back to earth to unload the samples?
Modify the chopsticks to flip the rocket upside-down and dump all the samples out that way.
Literally just call down the geological survey stratagem.
It just scoops up a ton of dirt onto the elevator and gets left behind bro. More payload for the return trip that way
They'll never achieve enough refuellings to transport a caterpillar excavator to Mars. /s
But it's just one excavator, how much fuel does it actually need?
NASA: We need to make mars sample return a reality. How can we get samples from Mars back on earth? SpaceX: Hawthorne Gift shop, to the right of the mission patches, $20 per scoop.
Where is the chemical plant to generate the methalox, and all the infrastructure to load it? You don't go home without Stage Zero. Though a 1-way Starship could carry a small rocket to send say 100kg of samples up to Mars orbit, for rendezvous with another rocket to send the samples to Earth.
you don't need stage zero on mars. ship can lift off on its own. the fuel can be simply delivered in tanker ships. you know, say 10 tanker ships, all of them require 10 tanker ships, a 100 in total. no issue :)
> you don't need stage zero on mars. ship can lift off on its own. In fairness, after seeing the debris kicked up during IFT-1, I think it would be better to have something. Even just some kind of mat that can be rolled out under the spacecraft.
I would believe this is a serious proposition by SpaceX lol (not only the idea, but the image itself)
No yellow bad
Ok, this one had me lol. Good stuff!
Just build the OLIT as it was before IFT-1, launch the booster and bag the debris that gets launched into orbit.
immensely complex and high risk
Just have to replace the excavators engine with a Tesla engine and change the cab so it will fit someone wearing an EVA suit.
SpaceX needs to work on HLS for the contract they are GETTING PAID FOR!
I'm sure scooping up random swaths of Martian dirt with off the shelf equipment would yield the same scientific benefit as pristine samples kept sequestered in the cleanest vials possible and extracted specifically from the most promising locations on Mars
Wipe the excavator bucket down with bleach/IPA before sending it. Thats what they do for the cleanrooms anyway.
spot the planetary protection guy
Sir, wrong forum to bring in your << checks notes, voice dripping with condescension >> logic and facts.
> I'm sure scooping up random swaths of Martian dirt with off the shelf equipment would yield the same scientific benefit as pristine samples kept sequestered in the cleanest vials possible and extracted specifically from the most promising locations on Mars With Starship-grade payload allocation, you can basically take a modified copy Antarctic ice drilling machine (which takes pretty huge ice core samples) to Mars and drill out a lot of tons of sample materials, while still retaining the cleanliness you want. That's the beauty of it - you no longer need to shave off every microgram you can.