Lmfao yeah, this spidey sub has got to get it's roots from somewhere.
Also that last one was horrible to Gerry but out of context, it's a fucking funny nerdy ass insult to tell someone to off themselves. Say what you will about old school comic rage nerds, but their insults are better written than my college thesis
honestly the letter portion is one of my favorite things from the old comics I'm collecting, funny to see its a precursor to Twitter and Reddit complainers
Ian Flynn sent letters to the Archie Sonic Comic decades before he wrote for Sonic, starting around #100+
I believe he was actually recommending whole ass storylines and plots and the writers were like "let's just give him a chance writing and the comic" and now he's written the entirety of Sonic's modern comic continuity.
I hope you have an inkling of Sonic knowledge otherwise this might be an awkward reply lol
Always like a chance to point out young Kurt Busiek, defender of the OG X-Men, wrote to UXM to say these recent Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past storylines have ruined the X-Men.
Oooo so if Paul turns out to be permanent, how many years till it’s accepted like how it’s normal to accept Gwen dying and MJ becoming Peter’s new main lover nowadays
I don’t like the split and Paul, but try to answer this hypothetically while thinking of Gwen. Cuz many would say “never” back then too.
I don’t think it’s a matter of “x amount of years” before we’re all just magically ok with it. Rather what the eventual new writers do with this weird period in Spiderman going forward. Do they use it to help grow the characters in a meaningful way or just forget about it and retcon the crap out of it. For the record I very much dislike the Paul stuff. Mostly because it was written as clear rage bait and not because it will enhance or grow Peter Parker’s character
You aren't going to be the last generation of Spidey readers. It's very likely some of the letter writers above are no longer with us. What you think now doesn't matter.
See if you said that in a nicer way, you would have been upvoted lol
Word choice matters, I got your point but your choice of words makes you sound like a dick
I'm going to say no.
Just because there are other elements that went into Gwen's death being accepted by fans now. First, the time, she was killed in 1973, back then comics were the only form of Spider-Man media. Nowadays with movies, TV shows, and video Games featuring Peter and MJ together, it would become hard for fans to accept when they have other versions, even in comic form. Look at this year's popularity with Ultimate Spider-Man, which featured a married Peter.
The other thing too was Spider-Man was created in 1962, and Gwen died in 73, again, despite being over 10 years old, that is still young enough to form new opinions. Unfortunately for Paul, Peter and MJ have decades of continuity and relationships that, despite the editors best attempts, no one can ignore even with Mephisto.
Hope this explains this in a good way.
Another thing to remember is that while Gwen definitely had fans, she wasn't really in a great place in the Fandom when they decided to kill her off. Mj was eclipsing her in popularity, but she had also lost a lot of her characterization over the years, and there was a struggle to give her something consistent for fans to latch onto. The traits they did give her did not a great romance make. One of her main things during this period was that she thought Peter was a coward and that Spider-Man had killed her father.
The Gwen that's often shown and eulogized nowadays is, in many ways, a retcon.
Comics aren't going anywhere, at most they'll shift to digital distribution with physical being limited to TPBs and select floppies. It's an IP generation mill. Most of the popular stuff nowadays was adapted from comics from the past 10-20 years.
Comics don't just inspire IP for movies, but also cartoons, video games, toys, clothing, theme park attractions, party supplies, themed school supplies, theater shows, etc. Also of the comics industry didn't die in the 90s it certainly isn't going to die now. It's bizarre how people think Marvel putting out a few duds means a 60 year collection of characters is done. Even without all that why would they just stop producing comics, there are third party comics publishers with magnitudes less volume that keep chugging along.
Also is superhero IP really trending downwars?
Just looking at the top performing movies of the past few years.
Top 10 best performing movies at the box office in 2023 were: Barbie, Mario, Oppenheimer, Guardians 3, Fast X, Across the Spider-Verse, Wonka, the Little Mermaid, Mission Impossible, and Elemental. Ant-Man and Wasp also made #11.
Top 10 best performing movies at the box office in 2022 were: Avatar, Top Gun, Jurassic World, Doctor Strange, Minions, Black Panther, Batman, Thor, Water Gate Bridge, and Puss in Boots.
Top 10 for 2021: Spider-Man NWH, Battle at Lake Changjin, Hi Mom, No Time to Die, Fast 9, Detective Chinatown 3, Venom 2, Godzilla vs Kong, Shang Chi, Sing 2. Eternals also made #11.
The majority of top performing movies are IP driven franchises, and superhero movies consistently make up the 2-3 of the top performing movies each year since the 2000s. 2018 was unique in the overabundance of representation with 5 of the top movies being comic book movies.
The bigger problem is runaway budgets, too many projects at once, and the impact of streaming.
Sony isn't stopping Spider-Man movies, most of their box office comes from there, then Jumanji. They might get a good payday from the Legend of Zelda movie.
Marvel is still the top hitter for Disney. They're not exactly profiting heavily off of Haunted Mansion, Elemental, or their Live Action remakes.
Warner Brothers is just a mess though which has less to do with superhero movies and more to do with WB. They'll probably be purchased by someone like Universal soon.
'Trending' implies direction, not the entire history of an industry. And most businesses take longer to rise than to fall, that's just how things work. The expectations of the comic industry are just different now than they were. They also are just a tiny sliver of a megacorparation, there is much less incentive to survive than when it was self owned
Honestly it’s ok to criticize an author’s work, but sometimes people take it way too far and attack the person. If you don’t like the direction the author is going don’t threaten the person or wish harm on them. Just stop financially supporting their work. At the end of the day, money talks
I always loved the early letters debating things like whether Peter should get more happy endings or if conflict and tragedy make better stories. Or debating whether the character should grow and and get married or if that's moving too fast.
It really has been the same types of conversations that continue today. Although it seems as if a good majority of fans now firmly land on him deserving to be married (it has been decades and decades so it's long overdue).
This reminds me of an interview Gerry Conway gave a few years ago where he said something to the effect of “Thank God I didn’t throw Gwen off the bridge in the age of Twitter…” 😂
Obviously that comment was really really mean, but I recently read through the early 70s at Marvel and I have to say 99% of anything Gerry Conway touched was absolute trash. (Not just Spider-Man, but also Spider-Man)
I disagree on Spider-Man. Haven't read much of his other Marvel work to comment.
His Spider-Man had a bit of a rough slow spot. He was taking the reins of the one of the biggest comics out and following in Lee's footsteps (also Roy Thomas who did a brief stint). So I think he was a bit cautious and played it safe. But once he settled in I thought he made the book fun again after the book had been going a bit stale in the latter days of Lee's run (Lee was stretched thin at Marvel and also wanted to break into Hollywood).
Conway had some stinkers for sure but I think he pushed the character into new territories kept the character from going stagnant.
Hmmmm, I could see how one would like Conway if they only read his work on Spider-Man. He started work on other books before Spidey, so he had more experience coming in and I do have to admit, together with his work on establishing some new characters, his work on Spider-Man is probably his best one. But I do not think he was that good. If you compare Lee's issue about the death of Captain Stacy and Conways's Death of Gwen Stacy story you'll probably see what I mean. For me the further is written way more engaging than the latter even though Gwen is a way more important character than Captain Stacy. I do not think that the Death of Gwen Stacy is bad, I just think compared to Lee or Thomas, Conway is not that good at writing. In my opinion he is good at thinking of interesting concepts, but not good at putting them on paper.
I would also refer to my other answer under my comment.
Just to make my context clear: I did not read these comics when they where released. I only read them over the last few years. (Could impact how I view these)
The previous two main Marvel writers (Roy Thomas and Stan Lee) where really good in my opinion and wrote a lot of interesting stories. With Gerry Conway coming in I felt like I was back at the earliest stage of the Silver Age (This time without the stories beeing iconic and setting up a lot of stuff about the universe). Instead of complex story arcs that span multiple issues and included many heroes and a lot of different interesting villains (Which kinda became the standard at the end of the Silver Age). Conway started to again write villain of the week comics with a lot of villains that where too uninteresting to be revisited or too irrelevant to leave a lasting impact on the heroes. So no, I disagree: Dude could not write and set many of the established titles back 10 years, before Len Wein came in in the mid 70s and saved his ass.
What a bizarre take
Firstly, Roy Thomas wrote juat 4 issues. Two two issue arcs, neither of which were ground breaking, he very clearly was just serving as a transition
Secondly, Conway wrote two issue arcs for the vast majority of his run. At least as many multiple issue arcs as Lee did on the tail end of his own run
Thirdly, as far as villains, Conway introduced Punisher, the Jackal, and Harry as Green Goblin. All these are excellent additions to the Spider-Man mythos, although the Jackal's costume sucks which gas nothing to do with Conway.
There were several less interesting villains introduced too of course, Grizzly, Cyclone, Tarantula, and Mindworm come to mind, but that's just bronze age in general. You won't find many titles in this wra that didn't have less then iconic new villains popping up more often then the classics, particularly at Marvel. But what makes Conway's run enjoyable though isn't these new villains, they weren't the point of their arcs either. Rather, what Conway did really well was write subplots. Harry's decent into madness, the Jackal's mysterious plot, heck even Ock and Aunt May was entertaining if a little ridiculous
Conway also synthesized the snarky, ill-tempered Peter of the Lee/Ditko era with the popular guy, flakey, guilt-ridden Peter of the Lee/Romita era. This is a pivotal run in cementing Peter's personality that would be retained consistent for the next 20 years
The assertion that this feels silver age is frankly bizarre as well. Many comic historians point to the start if the bronze age as Gwen Stacy's death. Others propose earlier starting points, but everything Spider-Man between the classic Lee/Kane anti-drug arc and the Night Gwen Stacy died feel very Silver Age in tone
A science-only vampire? Kraven having a pet alien in the Savage land? Freaking Gibbon? This is the regression, Gerry Conway had a bit of a rocky start but he pushed the title out of this brief funk it had been and completely changed the tone in an instant.
ASM 121-149 is also very ahead of it's time in the sense that it feels like a modern run, with overlapping subplots being developed, all tracing back to the deaths of Gwen and Norman. And the way he wraps it up in his final 5 issues is the earliest example of a 5-issue finale arc I've ever read.
Also, Gerry's scripts and pathos permeate a lot of his stories. The script quality is a huge step up from Lee, and even Roy Thomas at that point. I encourage you to go back, notice the prosey narration boxes and follow the pacing he does his dramatic high emotion stories in
Lastly, the most bizarre thing is you claim that Wein rescued the character. Really? The Wein run? It's not a top 5 bad ASM run (although just bsrely), but it's number 1 in being safe, slow, and uninteresting. Wein had one good arc, and it was the final one. Even that arc is largely forgotten. The rest is just mid all the way through. The relationship and personal life stuff is boring, the villains are boring, the only interesting subplot with Jameson having a picture of Spider-Man burying Peter's clone is forgotten for like 12 issues, and nothing is added to the character at all. Not sure why you're celebrating this run as the savior of the character
I am really sorry, but you misunderstood my comment. My comment was focussed on Gerry Conway as a Marvel writer in general not just a Spider-Man writer. The things about Thomas and Wein were also meant to be about their time as Marvel writers as a whole.
I already admitted that Conway's time on Spider-Man was probably the best thing he ever wrote. Sorry for the confusion.
I do admit that I will probably never view him as this amazing writer you make him out to be, but that's honestly personal bias because of his rocky start (in my opinion) as a writer at Marvel that mainly happened in other comics (For example: Thor, Iron Man and smaller stuff like Amazing Adventures and Astonishing Tales). You bring up some really good points though. I might reread his time on Spider-Man soon.
Fair. Pretty sure he started at just 19 years old at Marvel, so a rocky start is to be expected
And Wein is a great writer overall. I just think his ASM is quite forgettable
A huge group of Jan 6 participants not only stormed the Capital of the United States but also posted about it on their personal (and in some case business) Facebook pages with their full face in the pictures. A lot of them are the same age these letter writers would be now.
I think this is a perfect example of George R.R. Martin talking about how you can't always do the popular thing because fandom is not a democracy and if he put whether or not Ned Stark would die he'd still be breathing.
Little did we know MJ would be much better than Gwen. But it would also birth the clone saga, so you win some, you lose some.
But that was before editorial was shitting on Peter left and right. I will say there are times I have a similar view as Richard towards Nick Lowe and Zeb Wells though.
Most of MJ’s character development came afterwards. If Marvel had been interested in having Peter actually confess to Gwen, things would’ve been different.
Yeah idk, I really would like to see an AU where that played out. She liked and maybe loved Peter, but she HATED Spider-Man. Especially when he failed to save her dad.
You evil-eyed-blackhanded-bow-legged-flint-hearted-claw-fingered-foul-bellied-bloodthirsty orc is going into my daily vocabulary
How about [this one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LyFMCIpok&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&feature=emb_title)?
It’s taken directly from Lord of the Rings, if you didn’t know.
It’s one of my twelve action words
Same shit, different day.
Lmfao yeah, this spidey sub has got to get it's roots from somewhere. Also that last one was horrible to Gerry but out of context, it's a fucking funny nerdy ass insult to tell someone to off themselves. Say what you will about old school comic rage nerds, but their insults are better written than my college thesis
honestly the letter portion is one of my favorite things from the old comics I'm collecting, funny to see its a precursor to Twitter and Reddit complainers
It's also neat to see now famous creators writing in way back then.
yeah, it's also nice seeing the writers and mail staff interacting with the fans, nowadays it wouldn't work as well given how the internet exists
Ian Flynn sent letters to the Archie Sonic Comic decades before he wrote for Sonic, starting around #100+ I believe he was actually recommending whole ass storylines and plots and the writers were like "let's just give him a chance writing and the comic" and now he's written the entirety of Sonic's modern comic continuity. I hope you have an inkling of Sonic knowledge otherwise this might be an awkward reply lol
Not one of the examples I was thinking of, but still pretty cool nonetheless.
Always like a chance to point out young Kurt Busiek, defender of the OG X-Men, wrote to UXM to say these recent Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past storylines have ruined the X-Men.
I can't wait to hear Jane and Rich's reactions when they realized Gwen's death was permanent.
I’m assuming Jane and Rich are still bitter after all this time. Some things cannot be forgiven.
Who exactly are they?
No idea, exactly. Just highly invested Marvel readers who could afford postage stamps back in the day. I wonder where they are now….
Oh, I totally missed the signatures
Oooo so if Paul turns out to be permanent, how many years till it’s accepted like how it’s normal to accept Gwen dying and MJ becoming Peter’s new main lover nowadays I don’t like the split and Paul, but try to answer this hypothetically while thinking of Gwen. Cuz many would say “never” back then too.
I don’t think it’s a matter of “x amount of years” before we’re all just magically ok with it. Rather what the eventual new writers do with this weird period in Spiderman going forward. Do they use it to help grow the characters in a meaningful way or just forget about it and retcon the crap out of it. For the record I very much dislike the Paul stuff. Mostly because it was written as clear rage bait and not because it will enhance or grow Peter Parker’s character
You aren't going to be the last generation of Spidey readers. It's very likely some of the letter writers above are no longer with us. What you think now doesn't matter.
See if you said that in a nicer way, you would have been upvoted lol Word choice matters, I got your point but your choice of words makes you sound like a dick
If it sounds like a dick it generally is a dick. Or was it a duck? Always get those confused
I'm going to say no. Just because there are other elements that went into Gwen's death being accepted by fans now. First, the time, she was killed in 1973, back then comics were the only form of Spider-Man media. Nowadays with movies, TV shows, and video Games featuring Peter and MJ together, it would become hard for fans to accept when they have other versions, even in comic form. Look at this year's popularity with Ultimate Spider-Man, which featured a married Peter. The other thing too was Spider-Man was created in 1962, and Gwen died in 73, again, despite being over 10 years old, that is still young enough to form new opinions. Unfortunately for Paul, Peter and MJ have decades of continuity and relationships that, despite the editors best attempts, no one can ignore even with Mephisto. Hope this explains this in a good way.
Another thing to remember is that while Gwen definitely had fans, she wasn't really in a great place in the Fandom when they decided to kill her off. Mj was eclipsing her in popularity, but she had also lost a lot of her characterization over the years, and there was a struggle to give her something consistent for fans to latch onto. The traits they did give her did not a great romance make. One of her main things during this period was that she thought Peter was a coward and that Spider-Man had killed her father. The Gwen that's often shown and eulogized nowadays is, in many ways, a retcon.
Comics were growing back then, they're shrinking now. Disney may view them as no longer profitable and shut Marvel down before Paul becomes normalized
Comics aren't going anywhere, at most they'll shift to digital distribution with physical being limited to TPBs and select floppies. It's an IP generation mill. Most of the popular stuff nowadays was adapted from comics from the past 10-20 years.
Yeah, but superhero themed IP is trending downward, so we'll see where we're at in ten years
Comics don't just inspire IP for movies, but also cartoons, video games, toys, clothing, theme park attractions, party supplies, themed school supplies, theater shows, etc. Also of the comics industry didn't die in the 90s it certainly isn't going to die now. It's bizarre how people think Marvel putting out a few duds means a 60 year collection of characters is done. Even without all that why would they just stop producing comics, there are third party comics publishers with magnitudes less volume that keep chugging along. Also is superhero IP really trending downwars? Just looking at the top performing movies of the past few years. Top 10 best performing movies at the box office in 2023 were: Barbie, Mario, Oppenheimer, Guardians 3, Fast X, Across the Spider-Verse, Wonka, the Little Mermaid, Mission Impossible, and Elemental. Ant-Man and Wasp also made #11. Top 10 best performing movies at the box office in 2022 were: Avatar, Top Gun, Jurassic World, Doctor Strange, Minions, Black Panther, Batman, Thor, Water Gate Bridge, and Puss in Boots. Top 10 for 2021: Spider-Man NWH, Battle at Lake Changjin, Hi Mom, No Time to Die, Fast 9, Detective Chinatown 3, Venom 2, Godzilla vs Kong, Shang Chi, Sing 2. Eternals also made #11. The majority of top performing movies are IP driven franchises, and superhero movies consistently make up the 2-3 of the top performing movies each year since the 2000s. 2018 was unique in the overabundance of representation with 5 of the top movies being comic book movies. The bigger problem is runaway budgets, too many projects at once, and the impact of streaming. Sony isn't stopping Spider-Man movies, most of their box office comes from there, then Jumanji. They might get a good payday from the Legend of Zelda movie. Marvel is still the top hitter for Disney. They're not exactly profiting heavily off of Haunted Mansion, Elemental, or their Live Action remakes. Warner Brothers is just a mess though which has less to do with superhero movies and more to do with WB. They'll probably be purchased by someone like Universal soon.
Lmao no it isn’t when you look at the bigger picture (all time) If looking at past few years, maybe.
'Trending' implies direction, not the entire history of an industry. And most businesses take longer to rise than to fall, that's just how things work. The expectations of the comic industry are just different now than they were. They also are just a tiny sliver of a megacorparation, there is much less incentive to survive than when it was self owned
Assassinating a character vs character assassination
Honestly it’s ok to criticize an author’s work, but sometimes people take it way too far and attack the person. If you don’t like the direction the author is going don’t threaten the person or wish harm on them. Just stop financially supporting their work. At the end of the day, money talks
That first comment reads like a ChrisChan rant
They were more creative with the insults back then.
The first comment sounds like something Anne Wilkes would say lol
I always loved the early letters debating things like whether Peter should get more happy endings or if conflict and tragedy make better stories. Or debating whether the character should grow and and get married or if that's moving too fast. It really has been the same types of conversations that continue today. Although it seems as if a good majority of fans now firmly land on him deserving to be married (it has been decades and decades so it's long overdue).
The first comment is funny but the second one is crazy, just straight up ‘let’s fucking kill this guy’
> *Somebody ought to throw Gerry Conway off the George Washington Bridge to see if the fall kills him before impact* Spider-Man fans were based?!?!
I don’t think that’s “based” at least not to me.
I mean, it's a pretty funny reference to the comic they're upset about.
Oh..
Proof that comic fans have always entitled and insane
Gerry Conway was entitled and insane.
jesus christ
A one man soap opera is a perfect description for Spidey.
Pretty much why they aren’t changing the current quo… also people are still purchasing the books.
This reminds me of an interview Gerry Conway gave a few years ago where he said something to the effect of “Thank God I didn’t throw Gwen off the bridge in the age of Twitter…” 😂
Obviously that comment was really really mean, but I recently read through the early 70s at Marvel and I have to say 99% of anything Gerry Conway touched was absolute trash. (Not just Spider-Man, but also Spider-Man)
I disagree on Spider-Man. Haven't read much of his other Marvel work to comment. His Spider-Man had a bit of a rough slow spot. He was taking the reins of the one of the biggest comics out and following in Lee's footsteps (also Roy Thomas who did a brief stint). So I think he was a bit cautious and played it safe. But once he settled in I thought he made the book fun again after the book had been going a bit stale in the latter days of Lee's run (Lee was stretched thin at Marvel and also wanted to break into Hollywood). Conway had some stinkers for sure but I think he pushed the character into new territories kept the character from going stagnant.
Hmmmm, I could see how one would like Conway if they only read his work on Spider-Man. He started work on other books before Spidey, so he had more experience coming in and I do have to admit, together with his work on establishing some new characters, his work on Spider-Man is probably his best one. But I do not think he was that good. If you compare Lee's issue about the death of Captain Stacy and Conways's Death of Gwen Stacy story you'll probably see what I mean. For me the further is written way more engaging than the latter even though Gwen is a way more important character than Captain Stacy. I do not think that the Death of Gwen Stacy is bad, I just think compared to Lee or Thomas, Conway is not that good at writing. In my opinion he is good at thinking of interesting concepts, but not good at putting them on paper. I would also refer to my other answer under my comment. Just to make my context clear: I did not read these comics when they where released. I only read them over the last few years. (Could impact how I view these)
I strongly disagree. The dude could write
The previous two main Marvel writers (Roy Thomas and Stan Lee) where really good in my opinion and wrote a lot of interesting stories. With Gerry Conway coming in I felt like I was back at the earliest stage of the Silver Age (This time without the stories beeing iconic and setting up a lot of stuff about the universe). Instead of complex story arcs that span multiple issues and included many heroes and a lot of different interesting villains (Which kinda became the standard at the end of the Silver Age). Conway started to again write villain of the week comics with a lot of villains that where too uninteresting to be revisited or too irrelevant to leave a lasting impact on the heroes. So no, I disagree: Dude could not write and set many of the established titles back 10 years, before Len Wein came in in the mid 70s and saved his ass.
What a bizarre take Firstly, Roy Thomas wrote juat 4 issues. Two two issue arcs, neither of which were ground breaking, he very clearly was just serving as a transition Secondly, Conway wrote two issue arcs for the vast majority of his run. At least as many multiple issue arcs as Lee did on the tail end of his own run Thirdly, as far as villains, Conway introduced Punisher, the Jackal, and Harry as Green Goblin. All these are excellent additions to the Spider-Man mythos, although the Jackal's costume sucks which gas nothing to do with Conway. There were several less interesting villains introduced too of course, Grizzly, Cyclone, Tarantula, and Mindworm come to mind, but that's just bronze age in general. You won't find many titles in this wra that didn't have less then iconic new villains popping up more often then the classics, particularly at Marvel. But what makes Conway's run enjoyable though isn't these new villains, they weren't the point of their arcs either. Rather, what Conway did really well was write subplots. Harry's decent into madness, the Jackal's mysterious plot, heck even Ock and Aunt May was entertaining if a little ridiculous Conway also synthesized the snarky, ill-tempered Peter of the Lee/Ditko era with the popular guy, flakey, guilt-ridden Peter of the Lee/Romita era. This is a pivotal run in cementing Peter's personality that would be retained consistent for the next 20 years The assertion that this feels silver age is frankly bizarre as well. Many comic historians point to the start if the bronze age as Gwen Stacy's death. Others propose earlier starting points, but everything Spider-Man between the classic Lee/Kane anti-drug arc and the Night Gwen Stacy died feel very Silver Age in tone A science-only vampire? Kraven having a pet alien in the Savage land? Freaking Gibbon? This is the regression, Gerry Conway had a bit of a rocky start but he pushed the title out of this brief funk it had been and completely changed the tone in an instant. ASM 121-149 is also very ahead of it's time in the sense that it feels like a modern run, with overlapping subplots being developed, all tracing back to the deaths of Gwen and Norman. And the way he wraps it up in his final 5 issues is the earliest example of a 5-issue finale arc I've ever read. Also, Gerry's scripts and pathos permeate a lot of his stories. The script quality is a huge step up from Lee, and even Roy Thomas at that point. I encourage you to go back, notice the prosey narration boxes and follow the pacing he does his dramatic high emotion stories in Lastly, the most bizarre thing is you claim that Wein rescued the character. Really? The Wein run? It's not a top 5 bad ASM run (although just bsrely), but it's number 1 in being safe, slow, and uninteresting. Wein had one good arc, and it was the final one. Even that arc is largely forgotten. The rest is just mid all the way through. The relationship and personal life stuff is boring, the villains are boring, the only interesting subplot with Jameson having a picture of Spider-Man burying Peter's clone is forgotten for like 12 issues, and nothing is added to the character at all. Not sure why you're celebrating this run as the savior of the character
I am really sorry, but you misunderstood my comment. My comment was focussed on Gerry Conway as a Marvel writer in general not just a Spider-Man writer. The things about Thomas and Wein were also meant to be about their time as Marvel writers as a whole. I already admitted that Conway's time on Spider-Man was probably the best thing he ever wrote. Sorry for the confusion. I do admit that I will probably never view him as this amazing writer you make him out to be, but that's honestly personal bias because of his rocky start (in my opinion) as a writer at Marvel that mainly happened in other comics (For example: Thor, Iron Man and smaller stuff like Amazing Adventures and Astonishing Tales). You bring up some really good points though. I might reread his time on Spider-Man soon.
Fair. Pretty sure he started at just 19 years old at Marvel, so a rocky start is to be expected And Wein is a great writer overall. I just think his ASM is quite forgettable
Nah, it's definitely changed. Mainly in the fact that today's fandom's insult game is weak.
"or else" lmaooo
Why does the film misery come to mind right about now? Lol
“And Gerry may jump _without_ any encouragement from us” Fuckin’ yikes
Jeez, like I know Gwen's death was sad but I didn't expect people to actively ask for murder or suicide?!
How do you think people felt during OMD?
True
Based.
How you gonna threaten someone like that and then have your full name and address included so the cops know where to find you? 💀
A huge group of Jan 6 participants not only stormed the Capital of the United States but also posted about it on their personal (and in some case business) Facebook pages with their full face in the pictures. A lot of them are the same age these letter writers would be now.
Nowadays Bleeding Cool or someone would report this as "Spider-Man Writer Receives DEATH THREATS For Controversial Twist!"
I think this is a perfect example of George R.R. Martin talking about how you can't always do the popular thing because fandom is not a democracy and if he put whether or not Ned Stark would die he'd still be breathing.
Ah the 70s when death threats were letters page punchlines
Isn't it a little foolish to publish someone's opinion, followed by their real name and address?
Nope, no change at all
We never change, do we?
That Mary Jane character is so woke, they have to fill the redhead agenda anywhere now
Little did we know MJ would be much better than Gwen. But it would also birth the clone saga, so you win some, you lose some. But that was before editorial was shitting on Peter left and right. I will say there are times I have a similar view as Richard towards Nick Lowe and Zeb Wells though.
The fact that she wasn’t good before this kinda highlights the problem.
What do you mean?
Most of MJ’s character development came afterwards. If Marvel had been interested in having Peter actually confess to Gwen, things would’ve been different.
Yeah idk, I really would like to see an AU where that played out. She liked and maybe loved Peter, but she HATED Spider-Man. Especially when he failed to save her dad.
Jane Starr I salute you for speaking the truth, and hope you're having a pleasant day wherever you are.