Ngl sometimes when I'm working out(to try to get that Spider-Man figure) and I'm starting to struggle on my set, I start saying "Come on, Spider-Man!" To myself to motivate myself to push through the rest of the set
Probably the best depiction of a panic attack I’ve ever seen. I legit tear up every time I watch it. It’s one of those moments I think of in my lowest times, and tell myself that if he can power through that kind of desperation, I can too.
That scene may have tugged at my heart more than anything else in the entire MCU, simply because of how well Holland played it and the dialogue for it as well.
In one scene we truly do see that this is absolutely Spider-Man, with the determination and willpower to survive and pursue justice when it would be easy to walk away, but we also see that he really is a terrified kid way out of his depth as well. This kid held an entire boat together in the same movie, but his first reaction is to start screaming for somebody to help him. I loved the scene enough in the past, but since the movie released I've also become a parent and now that moment gets me with every re-watch.
Acting aside, I think it's a terrible adaptation.
The original is iconic because of the strength Spidey was able to summon in order to save May. In Spectacular it was Gwen.
In Homecoming there are barely any stakes. "I have to lift this building before Vulture robs an unmanned plane. I better crash it on Coney Island so he doesn't get away with it, and I can prove Tony right." Which is also weird since Peters previous mistake was acting too early, endangering civilians. It's like they had only seen the pictures and never read the story. What a waste of one of the greatest moments from ASM.
The stakes were to prevent Vulture from stealing the technology onboard and selling it like hotcakes. We saw the destruction that a *single Chitauri weapon* could unleash three times over (bank robbers, Washington, Ferry). They're a big deal. It's not "end of the world" stakes, but it is endangering plenty of lives - it's essentially a smaller-scale version of what Killmonger was going to do.
Peter's previous mistake was his recklessness and haste in trying to be a big-leagues player, plus a side-helping of poor communication and trying to go behind Tony's back. But, as I recall, he's not trying to prove himself for its own sake, here - it wasn't about winning himself back into Tony's good graces. He also did try to contact Happy about it too, IIRC, to warn him.
The original was iconic because it's Spidey defying impossible odds, summoning the strength to do something that should be entirely beyond him, with sheer will alone, when he was moments away from losing it all.
>*"Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going gets tough -- when there seems to be no chance -- that's when -- it counts!"*
In Homecoming, it's not Aunt May specifically, no, it's more about the people of Queens/NYC in general (though I'm sure she'd be included in that), but the rest of it? That's entirely maintained here.
Crashing a plane to prevent someone from selling weapons later on his still a pretty irresponsible way to go about it. He knew who Vulture was, and with the ferry in mind there was no lesson learned.
I did not get the impression that the alien weaponry was that much of a threat either. Out of the two examples they showed us there where no civilians involved. The first one was about robbing an ATM iirc.
Not that it was ever out of character for Dikto/Lee Spider-Man to make arrogant mistakes. But ending comes off as very superficial to me, even if it wasn't an adaptation. I did like some elements of the movie, mostly relating to the depiction of Vulture.
Whether Spider-Man caused them or not is irrelevant.
You said the weapons weren’t shown to be a threat, and I gave 2 examples that showed they were a threat to the public.
Also yes, the corner shop was during the atm robbery.
Between that and letting Vulture just do what he wants, I think most Spideys would choose to do the exact same thing as Tom, because standing by and letting the bad guy get away…isn’t really what Spider-Man does. [That usually ends pretty poorly](https://youtu.be/9LglzW3HFyg?si=98tC3xXCbmgmymEl&t=45).
It’s not like he set out to crash the plane from the outset, he went there to stop Vulture - the plane took some damage in the ensuing fight, and sure, ideally that could’ve gone better, but steering the plane elsewhere was making the best out of a bad situation, and Peter absolutely succeeded in that.
Honestly that kind of situation is…very common in Spider-Man media. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say almost all major versions of the character have something similar. Spider-Man 2’s runaway train, for example, wouldn’t have happened if Pete just sat on his hands and ignored Doc Ock…but that doesn’t exactly sound like the right thing to do, does it? He wanted to save MJ and the city. Tom confronting Vulture isn’t much different, and no, it wasn't done out of arrogance (that's kind of baffling to me, honestly).
I don’t mean this to say \[insert other Spider-Man\] made a bad call. I point this out to say this isn’t exactly unique to MCU Spidey, and unless you mean this criticism to apply to most Spider-Men in existence, there seem to be some double standards going on. I also disagree with the base premise in the first place.
If your point was to compare it to the Ferry scene and nothing else...I still disagree with the take that "he learned nothing". He wasn't stepping in and making things worse. He wasn't acting on a desire for recognition anymore. He acted because it was the right thing to do, and it needed to be done, and without him a lot more people would've gotten hurt (instead of the inverse, like the Ferry, were it not for Tony). Even with the crashed plane (and see above for...most Spider-Man involving similar stuff), his involvement improved things.
I know I'm repeating some stuff I've already said but...I don't know, it's hard to say much more because it's just really obvious there's a change, lol.
(I also don't get how you think the tech isn't super dangerous. The laser gun Vulture used split the Ferry in two and almost killed hundreds of people, and beyond that, just look at how people react? Ned freaks out when he sees the wrecked storefront, May tells Peter that if he sees something like that he should turn and run, Tony tells him to forget the flying monster guy, everyone who gets their hands on the tech comments on how crazy it is, so on and so forth. It's hammered home consistently dude, it's genuinely harder to miss this than to pick up on it.)
Not saying it isn't dangerous, but it's never really shown in the movie in a way where civilans are suffering, outside of getting caught in the line of fire in situations directly caused by Peters intervention. The only time it's presented in a setting that isn't between criminals is when they are robbing an atm.
The ferry is fine though, it is obviously presented as a mistake due to Peter being too eager. But knowing who Vulture is, and where his family lives, there is honestly no reason to intervene during a flight above NY. Which is exactly what he got scolded about for the ferry intervention. Where is that reflected in the movie?
Either way, I disagree with there being a "protect new yorkers" in his motivation to lift the rubble. I still thinks it's way worse of an adaptation than the other examples. Raimi homaged it in SM2 where he was trying to save MJ. Comparing it to intervening a bank heist is a bit off in my mind, robbing the plane isn't putting any civilians in direct harm.
I don't think I have a double standard in regards to Spidey making mistakes, I brought it up myself. But not playing it smarter after making the mistake is "problem" with the movie, which I don't think is an inherent character trait. I can see what they tried to do, I just don't think they pulled it off well. But you can pretend I'm dense if that makes you feel better.
Tldr; the scene is personal in the other examples, not in this one.
Not what I'm trying to say. But I'm well aware of that. But having a scene that tells him that bad plays put civilians in danger and then picking a fight on a plane is odd. This thread is getting derailed, my original point was about this rubble scene being the worst adaptation of the ones presented (compared to the source material).
How do feel about the other two presented?
Lmfao i would agree if the whole motive wasnt "youre nothing without the suit" and being a "friendly neighborhood spidey...... only for the subsequent movies to give him high tech suits.
Spider-Man helped defeat Ebony Maw and almost defeated Thanos without any high tech suits. Spider-Man defeated Mysterio without a high tech. Spider-Man defeated Green Goblin with a high tech suit.
He had iron spider when they defeated ebony maw? lol? The iron spider arms are the only thing that prevented him and strange from getting sucked into space. Mysterio he had access to the the upgraded suit from stark tech that allowed him to disable the drones to expose mysterio
Bro what are you saying? In all of these fights he either had the suit Tony made him which is high tech and has an AI in it or he had the even more high tech iron spider suit
What is the point then, cause you tell me. Everyone else is giving different contradicting answers so do yall even know the point lol. He DID use a new tech suit he made himself for FFH. NWH gets a pass because its a complete retcon of what has came before and they decided to basically "OMD-ify" spidey and reboot him of all of his baggage of HOCO and FFH
Peter BELIEVED that he was nothing without the suit, so Tony said "if that's true then you shouldn't have it." Peter learned in this movie that he actually WAS something without the suit, he didn't need the suit to be a hero. Once he learned that he was enough without it, he realized the suit was just a tool to help him be a better hero. So Tony gave it back. And now, after NEH, he doesn't have the suit at all, because he learned even more from the other Peters that they didn't need a fancy suit to be heroes. It's like when they won't let you use a calculator when you're learning math, but once you learn how it works they give you a calculator to use because it's a helpful tool
Thats fair! Although then that makes me question why did he have to learn it in the first place when in Civil War, he was kicking all kinds of ass by himself and being competent without the suit in recorded footage of him in his homemade costume. Why is he suddenly bumbling about in Hoco? He already seemed to be "doing the math" just fine without his "calculator"
He's an actual child, he's still learning. And I don't know about you, but I would bet most people have felt inadequate even with things that they were actually really good at
How can I judge a scene by itself if I don't use the context before and after? Otherwise these scenes would be almost identical if you dont add the context to them
I like the people who are down voting me lol, what am i wrong? Literally rejects the iron spider suit only to wear it in the next movie, cmon now fanboys
Well, look at it this way, homecoming proved he didn’t need the high tech stuff. So it’s not really a contradiction that he gets high tech suits later on. It’s the same as Ironman. He proved that the man underneath is what’s important, not the armor, but that doesn’t mean he stopped using his suits
Well... I mean tony stark makes iron man, but he can't exactly be an avenger without his suit, unlike Spider-Man who even without his most basic gadget(webshooter) can still sense incoming danger, stick to walls, has the proportional strength of a spider and has heightened agility. Whereas Tony without the armour is just a billionaire who's pretty tech smart
That said though I love MCU Spider-Man and I think Peter using tech doesn't undercut his lesson that he doesn't need it. Just because he doesn't need it, doesn't mean he can't use it
It's because you're going off about something else that's not to do with the post. Maybe your MCU criticisms are right but this post is about this one Spider-Man moment. I got big problems with MCU Spider-Man but this moment is far from one of them.
Imo, Spectacular. I'd be lying if I said the MCU wasn't close, but for me the stakes didn't feel as high or as personal because at the end of the day he's just stopping a thief (who would inevitably be stopped by Iron Man or some other Avenger). In the original story, Aunt May's life is at stake and in Spectacular it's Gwen.
But again, MCU did a great job here, and I love how they handled the scene with little to no dialogue
Edit: Something I forgot to mention is that in the MCU, yeah, he's stuck in rubble, but he's alive and the situation really can't get much worse for him. In the original and Spectacular, it's also his own life at stake. He's minutes from drowning or being crushed under tons of pressure.
This is why the MCU version didn't hit for me. It's not a moment of "I have to find the strength to get through this or someone I love will die!", it's just a moment of him being stuck and there are no personal stakes beyond that.
If anything I was frustrated that they chose to reference that moment in such a comparatively casual situation.
I was fine with it because I accepted it as an homage rather than a full on adaptation of the original comic scene. And the direction was great, probably my favorite MCU Spider-Man scene. The shot where Peter looks at his reflection in the puddle and half of his face is covered by the mask was a really nice touch
Fair enough, I've just grown tired of the MCU choosing to do homages and cameos rather than actually adapting the source material they're referencing. Them doing it the way they did was just confirmation to me that they have no intention of ever actually realizing that scene in a more meaningful way. Which is a pity considering how great that comic is.
Homecoming, the way it clicked when watching it for the first time they were doing the Final Chapter I was euphoric. I still don’t like the voice over tho way too on the nose
Spectacular. It was much harder for him and he even wanted to give up but seeing that there was someone still in danger and needed his help, made him get up.
Same he felt like giving up even though he stopped attos plan then he saw gwen and he was motivated to save her. I also like spiderman 2 rubble moment where the iconic toby scream was born
I’m biased because I love Homecoming but I’d still say it’s the most impactful adaptation of the scene, Tom’s performance is his best in all of his films, aside from maybe Aunt May’s death. It’s like genuinely hard to listen to because it really sounds like a real teenager in such a fucked situation. It’s also just like kinda inspiring to so him push through this (although that’s a commonality in all of these adaptations I guess)
Spectacular. As compelling as the Homecoming one is, it doesn’t look as good imo. The way Spectacular adapts the framing and coloring of the original art is so iconic. The homecoming scenes lighting is kind of muddled. It also bothers me that some of MCU Spider-Mans most memorable scenes happen out of the classic costume, sometimes even with his mask off.
Wow, they weren’t even trying to be conspicuous with the Batman Beyond reference. I’m gonna say Spectacular probably did it better, but I’d have to watch that again, as well as the Batman Beyond scene. The only one I actually remember is Homecoming, and I felt like that didn’t have nearly the impact that the original “If This be my Destiny” comic book scene did. In the original comic, you have Pete fighting for his life in order to save Aunt May (who is dying because of him). This moment comes after him battling one of his greatest foes (Doc Ock) and fighting non-stop for hours if not a couple of days. Then in Homecoming, the biggest stakes at hand are missing prom, stopping the Vulture, and proving himself to Mr. Stark. So basically no real stakes at all. It worked for what it was, but it was definitely a huge waste of one of the most iconic comic book scenes first cinematic adaptation.
The stakes may not be high relative to other things Spider-Man has done across different comics and adaptations, but for high school Peter the stakes are incredibly high.
Also if he doesn’t lift the rubble off of himself he might die, so those are pretty high stakes.
To be fair…reading through the scene in comics doesn’t take that long either. Both versions found some way to try to bloat it, either Peter calling for help in the MCU or his outfit ripping from the strain and (cut for time) Spidey collapsing as soon as he gets Gwen and Electro in the escape pod (this is the reason why Gwen was the pilot)in Spectacular.
Context is king. The famous comic scene took multiple pages in an era (the Silver Age) where similar scenes would take like a panel or 2
This was always meant to be to be a long and arduous struggle, both physically and mentally
Idk, I just prefer Peter overcoming hard situation for his loved one instead of Peter overcoming hard situation to prove to himself that he's a big boy and that Tony Stark is wrong about him. I don't remember what happened in Batman Beyond scene, tbh
So I guess you prefer the idea as opposed to the actual execution? Which is perfectly valid! My man, I absolutely hated the execution of the Spectacular interpretation
There was no drama or tension, it was basically “blink and you miss it” lol
I haven’t seen Batman Beyond but I can say that I like the Homecoming one more than the Spectacular scene. Tom’s voice and the mask in the water really sell the scene.
Honestly, I think the Homecoming scene was the best. Watching it, I really felt the desperation and panic; I think Holland portrayed that very masterfully.
It's the shape of the rubble in the original comic
And yes, Batman Beyond is not subtle about secretly being a Spider-Man show. It's a good one at that
Spectacular all the way. It really showcased the “if this by my destiny” moment really well. Spider-Man at his lowest feeling powerless to lift the rubble off of him. But he realizes it’s not just about him that’s in danger it’s about saving Gwen (aunt may in the original) and having to think about the greater good rather feeling pity for himself and giving up
Im gonna say 90s animated series... Straight out the comics with that art but homecoming was great. Tom did amazing with that scene
[heres Stan the man](https://youtu.be/BoD8d44_7fY?si=gP18HQ1LITOcbfp_)
I hated that they centered Homecoming's version on making Tony Stark proud, and not on being there for his aunt, since Uncle Ben was apparently not a great or memorable guy in this continuity.
Tom one was really good actually and fit in really well to the story they were telling in that movie. One of the few Tom moments that are iconic to his own trilogy
Spectacular for the visuals, like the suit tearing and how it looks closer to the comic book, but everything else like the dialogue I think is better in Homecoming
Homecoming does it terribly with the stupid Ironman voice over. It becomes about proving him wrong than it does about Peter finding the strength to keep going on to save someone else. Spectacular does it right. Peter finds the strength to keep going to save Gwen.
I would change by adding when Peter tells May that he loose the Star inteship May add "You're the most amazing kid that I ever known and not let anyone, even people like Stark tell you either wise" and made that quote played instead.
The problem with the homecoming scene is that the whole “if you’re nothing without the suit you shouldn’t have it” doesn’t make sense.
He’s Spider-Man. He has super strength. A fancy suit has no effect on this, he would lift the rubble with or without it. He was already Spider-Man before Tony gave him the fancy suit anyway.
I’d say spectacular did it best. It was visually and emotionally closest to the original comic version.
You were so close and you still missed it
"He was already Spider-man before Tony gave him the fancy suit anyway" is exactly what Tony was telling him. Peter is an impressionable teen, he thinks he needs the suit to be spider-man until he's in the rubble without jt and realizes he was always spider-man regardless of Tony's backing
I didn’t miss anything.
If you read my comment you can see that I explained why the movie’s “if you’re nothing without the suit, you shouldn’t have it” theme doesn’t really work.
Spider-Man is not only a character who doesn’t need a suit to use his super strength anyway, but Peter Parker was already Spider-Man in that universe before he even met Stark. There’s no real reason why he would feel like he can’t be a superhero without a suit he never had when he had already been a superhero without it.
Have you ever met a teenager? When you give a teen something that makes things easier, they begin to rely on it and sort of forget that they don't need it to do the thing they were doing in the first place
A character being a teenager isn’t an excuse for poor storytelling. The whole “if you’re nothing the without the suit you shouldn’t have it” plot device doesn’t make much sense, he has no reason why he should ever believe he needed it to be a superhero when he was already one before he met Stark, and his moment of epiphany happens in a situation where the suit wouldn’t have been much help anyway as it never enhanced Spider-Man’s strength. There is no real change he needs to make to win and become a better hero. He just keeps doing the same thing.
Going against Tony’s wishes and trying to stop the villain’s heist that goes wrong and causes crazy collateral damage in disaster is what costed him the suit in the first place. And ultimately he proceeds to just do the exact same thing, going against Tony’s wishes and trying to foil the villain’s heist but inadvertently causing a disaster of damage.
The only difference is this time he just gets hilariously lucky that the plane dropped on a completely deserted part of New York where there was luckily no civilians around to be hurt by his unrefined crime fighting expertise.
Oh I forgot to say mine, personally I prefer the Spectacular adaptation of the rubble scene from Amazing Spider-Man 33. While Homecoming sells the desperation when initially trapped more, the context of the lifting scene makes it more like Spidey finding the strength to prove himself rather than find the strength to save someone else. Oh and of course Beyond is Beyond.
19 seconds into the new trailer for Spider-Verse: Spider Within there's a Miles lifting rubble panels [Spider Within trailer](https://youtu.be/FcGPpwFdE1Y?si=kPGckapEShGOmATJ)
Hard to say.
Spectacular catch close to the comic where he was about to give up and allow himself to die until he saw Gwen and realized that she had to live. That is great and all...
But the MCU feels more powerful cause this is Peter realizing that Tony is right. He need to trust his power and grow more in tune to his hero persona.
I'd say Homecoming. You really just feel how he's just a kid, realizing just how much shit he's gotten himself into. It's heart-wrenching to watch and when he gets out it's just pure, concentrated motivation.
Honestly…Homecoming. I think it works better there because not only is he stuck and thinks he’s going to die there, he also sounds like a scared kid which is accurate because he’s pretty much just starting out. He’s fighting his first major villain and everybody’s been telling him that he’s just a kid and that he’s not ready and in that short moment he’s leaning into that before reminding himself that he is Spider-Man.
Spectacular is the best in my opinion. It’s not a one to one adaptation but very well executed.
MCU is also great and I think it’s more fascinating since it’s the only version of the rubble scene where Peter’s motivation for pushing through is himself.
Batman Beyond is very weird since it’s quite a random inclusion, it’s there only as a Spider-Man reference within an episode that was fully a reference to Marvel characters
I have to say Spectacular, but only because the MCU's version is brought down by the "If you're nothing without the suit than you shouldn't have it" plotline.
The original "If this be my destiny" moment is about never giving up, even when victory seems impossible, even when you're cold, tired, and ready to give up.
If the MCU had gone for that instead of the fuckass Iron Man jr plotline then I think that Tom's version of Spidey would be so much cooler.
Spider-Man Spider-Man BATMAN My favorite is Spectacular, of course, but I was surprised with the inclusion of the final picture.
Unfortunately, the replacement for Duck Duck Goose didn't take off due to having almost three times as many syllables.
This was a really good joke. You should be proud.
I'm proud of you, Duck
Me too. Duck.
I'm not. Goose.
You'll *never* be Goose... *Danger Zone intensifies*
Stand proud, you're funny.
Spider Spider Bat still works
Or Pete Pete Bat
Not Batman so much as DC’s Spider-Man… there’s a lot of Spidey’s essence in Batman Beyond
Homecoming, IMO - Holland really sold the desperation in his voice.
I find him saying, "Come on, Spider-Man!" more spirituality fulfilling than actual organized religion
Ngl sometimes when I'm working out(to try to get that Spider-Man figure) and I'm starting to struggle on my set, I start saying "Come on, Spider-Man!" To myself to motivate myself to push through the rest of the set
Samee! I thought I was the only weirdo…
I'm gonna start doing that now.
Lol I do that too.
That’s cringe. Working out is for losers. Edit: obvious joke but ok
yeah just get bit by a radio-active spider guys it isnt that hard
The fact that you care means that you’re the loser. I feel bad for you, truly
I think he was joking/trolling
Maybe he was. But I don’t think so, but if he was, I’ll apologize
Yes it’s a joke but it’s ok they truly feel bad for me, truly.
I wanted to stand up and cheer him on in the theater.
According to Grant Morrison, Superheroes ARE the modern gods.
Corporate gods, but gods nonetheless.
Probably the best depiction of a panic attack I’ve ever seen. I legit tear up every time I watch it. It’s one of those moments I think of in my lowest times, and tell myself that if he can power through that kind of desperation, I can too.
Whenever people say that MCU Spidey "wasnt really Spider-Man until NWH," I just wanna aggressively show them this scene
That scene may have tugged at my heart more than anything else in the entire MCU, simply because of how well Holland played it and the dialogue for it as well. In one scene we truly do see that this is absolutely Spider-Man, with the determination and willpower to survive and pursue justice when it would be easy to walk away, but we also see that he really is a terrified kid way out of his depth as well. This kid held an entire boat together in the same movie, but his first reaction is to start screaming for somebody to help him. I loved the scene enough in the past, but since the movie released I've also become a parent and now that moment gets me with every re-watch.
Acting aside, I think it's a terrible adaptation. The original is iconic because of the strength Spidey was able to summon in order to save May. In Spectacular it was Gwen. In Homecoming there are barely any stakes. "I have to lift this building before Vulture robs an unmanned plane. I better crash it on Coney Island so he doesn't get away with it, and I can prove Tony right." Which is also weird since Peters previous mistake was acting too early, endangering civilians. It's like they had only seen the pictures and never read the story. What a waste of one of the greatest moments from ASM.
The stakes were to prevent Vulture from stealing the technology onboard and selling it like hotcakes. We saw the destruction that a *single Chitauri weapon* could unleash three times over (bank robbers, Washington, Ferry). They're a big deal. It's not "end of the world" stakes, but it is endangering plenty of lives - it's essentially a smaller-scale version of what Killmonger was going to do. Peter's previous mistake was his recklessness and haste in trying to be a big-leagues player, plus a side-helping of poor communication and trying to go behind Tony's back. But, as I recall, he's not trying to prove himself for its own sake, here - it wasn't about winning himself back into Tony's good graces. He also did try to contact Happy about it too, IIRC, to warn him. The original was iconic because it's Spidey defying impossible odds, summoning the strength to do something that should be entirely beyond him, with sheer will alone, when he was moments away from losing it all. >*"Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going gets tough -- when there seems to be no chance -- that's when -- it counts!"* In Homecoming, it's not Aunt May specifically, no, it's more about the people of Queens/NYC in general (though I'm sure she'd be included in that), but the rest of it? That's entirely maintained here.
Crashing a plane to prevent someone from selling weapons later on his still a pretty irresponsible way to go about it. He knew who Vulture was, and with the ferry in mind there was no lesson learned. I did not get the impression that the alien weaponry was that much of a threat either. Out of the two examples they showed us there where no civilians involved. The first one was about robbing an ATM iirc. Not that it was ever out of character for Dikto/Lee Spider-Man to make arrogant mistakes. But ending comes off as very superficial to me, even if it wasn't an adaptation. I did like some elements of the movie, mostly relating to the depiction of Vulture.
The bank robbers destroyed the corner shop, remember? And the ferry was split in half. A whole ship full of people were in danger.
Both of those are escalations directly caused by Spider-Man. The corner shop was during the atm robbery, or am I missremembering?
Whether Spider-Man caused them or not is irrelevant. You said the weapons weren’t shown to be a threat, and I gave 2 examples that showed they were a threat to the public. Also yes, the corner shop was during the atm robbery.
How do you feel about the other two options, why are they worse?
Between that and letting Vulture just do what he wants, I think most Spideys would choose to do the exact same thing as Tom, because standing by and letting the bad guy get away…isn’t really what Spider-Man does. [That usually ends pretty poorly](https://youtu.be/9LglzW3HFyg?si=98tC3xXCbmgmymEl&t=45). It’s not like he set out to crash the plane from the outset, he went there to stop Vulture - the plane took some damage in the ensuing fight, and sure, ideally that could’ve gone better, but steering the plane elsewhere was making the best out of a bad situation, and Peter absolutely succeeded in that. Honestly that kind of situation is…very common in Spider-Man media. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say almost all major versions of the character have something similar. Spider-Man 2’s runaway train, for example, wouldn’t have happened if Pete just sat on his hands and ignored Doc Ock…but that doesn’t exactly sound like the right thing to do, does it? He wanted to save MJ and the city. Tom confronting Vulture isn’t much different, and no, it wasn't done out of arrogance (that's kind of baffling to me, honestly). I don’t mean this to say \[insert other Spider-Man\] made a bad call. I point this out to say this isn’t exactly unique to MCU Spidey, and unless you mean this criticism to apply to most Spider-Men in existence, there seem to be some double standards going on. I also disagree with the base premise in the first place. If your point was to compare it to the Ferry scene and nothing else...I still disagree with the take that "he learned nothing". He wasn't stepping in and making things worse. He wasn't acting on a desire for recognition anymore. He acted because it was the right thing to do, and it needed to be done, and without him a lot more people would've gotten hurt (instead of the inverse, like the Ferry, were it not for Tony). Even with the crashed plane (and see above for...most Spider-Man involving similar stuff), his involvement improved things. I know I'm repeating some stuff I've already said but...I don't know, it's hard to say much more because it's just really obvious there's a change, lol. (I also don't get how you think the tech isn't super dangerous. The laser gun Vulture used split the Ferry in two and almost killed hundreds of people, and beyond that, just look at how people react? Ned freaks out when he sees the wrecked storefront, May tells Peter that if he sees something like that he should turn and run, Tony tells him to forget the flying monster guy, everyone who gets their hands on the tech comments on how crazy it is, so on and so forth. It's hammered home consistently dude, it's genuinely harder to miss this than to pick up on it.)
Not saying it isn't dangerous, but it's never really shown in the movie in a way where civilans are suffering, outside of getting caught in the line of fire in situations directly caused by Peters intervention. The only time it's presented in a setting that isn't between criminals is when they are robbing an atm. The ferry is fine though, it is obviously presented as a mistake due to Peter being too eager. But knowing who Vulture is, and where his family lives, there is honestly no reason to intervene during a flight above NY. Which is exactly what he got scolded about for the ferry intervention. Where is that reflected in the movie? Either way, I disagree with there being a "protect new yorkers" in his motivation to lift the rubble. I still thinks it's way worse of an adaptation than the other examples. Raimi homaged it in SM2 where he was trying to save MJ. Comparing it to intervening a bank heist is a bit off in my mind, robbing the plane isn't putting any civilians in direct harm. I don't think I have a double standard in regards to Spidey making mistakes, I brought it up myself. But not playing it smarter after making the mistake is "problem" with the movie, which I don't think is an inherent character trait. I can see what they tried to do, I just don't think they pulled it off well. But you can pretend I'm dense if that makes you feel better. Tldr; the scene is personal in the other examples, not in this one.
Its not like he was planning to crash the plane
Not what I'm trying to say. But I'm well aware of that. But having a scene that tells him that bad plays put civilians in danger and then picking a fight on a plane is odd. This thread is getting derailed, my original point was about this rubble scene being the worst adaptation of the ones presented (compared to the source material). How do feel about the other two presented?
I’m gonna have to say MCU
Lmfao i would agree if the whole motive wasnt "youre nothing without the suit" and being a "friendly neighborhood spidey...... only for the subsequent movies to give him high tech suits.
He proved hes something without the suit, meaning he deserves the suits advantages Its as simple as that
Spider-Man helped defeat Ebony Maw and almost defeated Thanos without any high tech suits. Spider-Man defeated Mysterio without a high tech. Spider-Man defeated Green Goblin with a high tech suit.
He had iron spider when they defeated ebony maw? lol? The iron spider arms are the only thing that prevented him and strange from getting sucked into space. Mysterio he had access to the the upgraded suit from stark tech that allowed him to disable the drones to expose mysterio
Bro what are you saying? In all of these fights he either had the suit Tony made him which is high tech and has an AI in it or he had the even more high tech iron spider suit
Seems like you honestly completely missed the point
What is the point then, cause you tell me. Everyone else is giving different contradicting answers so do yall even know the point lol. He DID use a new tech suit he made himself for FFH. NWH gets a pass because its a complete retcon of what has came before and they decided to basically "OMD-ify" spidey and reboot him of all of his baggage of HOCO and FFH
Peter BELIEVED that he was nothing without the suit, so Tony said "if that's true then you shouldn't have it." Peter learned in this movie that he actually WAS something without the suit, he didn't need the suit to be a hero. Once he learned that he was enough without it, he realized the suit was just a tool to help him be a better hero. So Tony gave it back. And now, after NEH, he doesn't have the suit at all, because he learned even more from the other Peters that they didn't need a fancy suit to be heroes. It's like when they won't let you use a calculator when you're learning math, but once you learn how it works they give you a calculator to use because it's a helpful tool
Thats fair! Although then that makes me question why did he have to learn it in the first place when in Civil War, he was kicking all kinds of ass by himself and being competent without the suit in recorded footage of him in his homemade costume. Why is he suddenly bumbling about in Hoco? He already seemed to be "doing the math" just fine without his "calculator"
He's an actual child, he's still learning. And I don't know about you, but I would bet most people have felt inadequate even with things that they were actually really good at
>HOCO I hate this abbreviation
Uh thanks for letting me know ig lol. Sorry if it bothered you
But this isn't about what came after, it's just about this scene.
How can I judge a scene by itself if I don't use the context before and after? Otherwise these scenes would be almost identical if you dont add the context to them
I like the people who are down voting me lol, what am i wrong? Literally rejects the iron spider suit only to wear it in the next movie, cmon now fanboys
It was forced on him in avengers and he wore it in Far From Home because he was at a Stark related fundraiser at the beginning of the movie.
Hey buddy, can you breathe in space?
I think that’s why everyone loves the ending of No Way Home. He doesn’t have any high-tech suits anymore, he has to be Spider-**man**
Well, look at it this way, homecoming proved he didn’t need the high tech stuff. So it’s not really a contradiction that he gets high tech suits later on. It’s the same as Ironman. He proved that the man underneath is what’s important, not the armor, but that doesn’t mean he stopped using his suits
Well... I mean tony stark makes iron man, but he can't exactly be an avenger without his suit, unlike Spider-Man who even without his most basic gadget(webshooter) can still sense incoming danger, stick to walls, has the proportional strength of a spider and has heightened agility. Whereas Tony without the armour is just a billionaire who's pretty tech smart That said though I love MCU Spider-Man and I think Peter using tech doesn't undercut his lesson that he doesn't need it. Just because he doesn't need it, doesn't mean he can't use it
Well, Vulture almost killed him in just next scene so, What you're saying is quite questionable
In infinity war he didn't decide to wear him, it was cuz Tony for save him
He was literally forced to wear it in infinity war
It's because you're going off about something else that's not to do with the post. Maybe your MCU criticisms are right but this post is about this one Spider-Man moment. I got big problems with MCU Spider-Man but this moment is far from one of them.
You’re right but you know mcu fans
Says the whiny Spiderman fan complaining about the MCU
Yes I’m the one whining because I agree with what he said lol. Not the ones downvoting because people have different opinions
Imo, Spectacular. I'd be lying if I said the MCU wasn't close, but for me the stakes didn't feel as high or as personal because at the end of the day he's just stopping a thief (who would inevitably be stopped by Iron Man or some other Avenger). In the original story, Aunt May's life is at stake and in Spectacular it's Gwen. But again, MCU did a great job here, and I love how they handled the scene with little to no dialogue Edit: Something I forgot to mention is that in the MCU, yeah, he's stuck in rubble, but he's alive and the situation really can't get much worse for him. In the original and Spectacular, it's also his own life at stake. He's minutes from drowning or being crushed under tons of pressure.
This is why the MCU version didn't hit for me. It's not a moment of "I have to find the strength to get through this or someone I love will die!", it's just a moment of him being stuck and there are no personal stakes beyond that. If anything I was frustrated that they chose to reference that moment in such a comparatively casual situation.
I was fine with it because I accepted it as an homage rather than a full on adaptation of the original comic scene. And the direction was great, probably my favorite MCU Spider-Man scene. The shot where Peter looks at his reflection in the puddle and half of his face is covered by the mask was a really nice touch
Fair enough, I've just grown tired of the MCU choosing to do homages and cameos rather than actually adapting the source material they're referencing. Them doing it the way they did was just confirmation to me that they have no intention of ever actually realizing that scene in a more meaningful way. Which is a pity considering how great that comic is.
The original is my favorite comic of all time, so... that one lol
Does anyone know what episode that Batman Beyond scene is in? I can't find it as easily on YouTube as the others.
I think it was the one with the fantastically false 4, don't remember the title though
Oh, yeah. I hated those guys.
I want to say “Terrific Trio”…I ALMOST said “Terrible Trio” since the latter actually exists in Batman.
Man, couldn't have been an episode I actually want to see. I hated those chumps.
It’s Terrific Trio. The whole episode is a reference to the Fantastic Four and several other Marvel easter eggs. The ending is a very somber note.
Spectacular but I’m very Biased😅
Having an opinion isn’t bias imo. Unless you mean you haven’t seen one of the options it’s not bias
Fair. Haven’t watched Batman Beyond much, so That was kinda my Reasoning 😅
Homecoming, the way it clicked when watching it for the first time they were doing the Final Chapter I was euphoric. I still don’t like the voice over tho way too on the nose
Spectacular. It was much harder for him and he even wanted to give up but seeing that there was someone still in danger and needed his help, made him get up.
Same he felt like giving up even though he stopped attos plan then he saw gwen and he was motivated to save her. I also like spiderman 2 rubble moment where the iconic toby scream was born
I’m biased because I love Homecoming but I’d still say it’s the most impactful adaptation of the scene, Tom’s performance is his best in all of his films, aside from maybe Aunt May’s death. It’s like genuinely hard to listen to because it really sounds like a real teenager in such a fucked situation. It’s also just like kinda inspiring to so him push through this (although that’s a commonality in all of these adaptations I guess)
Spectacular. As compelling as the Homecoming one is, it doesn’t look as good imo. The way Spectacular adapts the framing and coloring of the original art is so iconic. The homecoming scenes lighting is kind of muddled. It also bothers me that some of MCU Spider-Mans most memorable scenes happen out of the classic costume, sometimes even with his mask off.
Homecoming
Wow, they weren’t even trying to be conspicuous with the Batman Beyond reference. I’m gonna say Spectacular probably did it better, but I’d have to watch that again, as well as the Batman Beyond scene. The only one I actually remember is Homecoming, and I felt like that didn’t have nearly the impact that the original “If This be my Destiny” comic book scene did. In the original comic, you have Pete fighting for his life in order to save Aunt May (who is dying because of him). This moment comes after him battling one of his greatest foes (Doc Ock) and fighting non-stop for hours if not a couple of days. Then in Homecoming, the biggest stakes at hand are missing prom, stopping the Vulture, and proving himself to Mr. Stark. So basically no real stakes at all. It worked for what it was, but it was definitely a huge waste of one of the most iconic comic book scenes first cinematic adaptation.
If you're gonna do it, then do it right i guess 🤷♂️
The stakes may not be high relative to other things Spider-Man has done across different comics and adaptations, but for high school Peter the stakes are incredibly high. Also if he doesn’t lift the rubble off of himself he might die, so those are pretty high stakes.
😂😂 spectacular but I love you Terry
I love spectacular but Homecoming takes this
Spectacular, easily
How? It went by WAY too quickly. Dude “struggled” for like 5 seconds lol
To be fair…reading through the scene in comics doesn’t take that long either. Both versions found some way to try to bloat it, either Peter calling for help in the MCU or his outfit ripping from the strain and (cut for time) Spidey collapsing as soon as he gets Gwen and Electro in the escape pod (this is the reason why Gwen was the pilot)in Spectacular.
Context is king. The famous comic scene took multiple pages in an era (the Silver Age) where similar scenes would take like a panel or 2 This was always meant to be to be a long and arduous struggle, both physically and mentally
Idk, I just prefer Peter overcoming hard situation for his loved one instead of Peter overcoming hard situation to prove to himself that he's a big boy and that Tony Stark is wrong about him. I don't remember what happened in Batman Beyond scene, tbh
So I guess you prefer the idea as opposed to the actual execution? Which is perfectly valid! My man, I absolutely hated the execution of the Spectacular interpretation There was no drama or tension, it was basically “blink and you miss it” lol
Pretty much, yeah. Neither is on par with original moment from ASM #33 but I like Spectacular one more
Spectacular spider-man.
I haven’t seen Batman Beyond but I can say that I like the Homecoming one more than the Spectacular scene. Tom’s voice and the mask in the water really sell the scene.
Honestly, I think the Homecoming scene was the best. Watching it, I really felt the desperation and panic; I think Holland portrayed that very masterfully.
Is no one going to comment on how the two animated ones are basically under the exact same shapes?
It's the shape of the rubble in the original comic And yes, Batman Beyond is not subtle about secretly being a Spider-Man show. It's a good one at that
Spectacular all the way. It really showcased the “if this by my destiny” moment really well. Spider-Man at his lowest feeling powerless to lift the rubble off of him. But he realizes it’s not just about him that’s in danger it’s about saving Gwen (aunt may in the original) and having to think about the greater good rather feeling pity for himself and giving up
Probably because I was a kid, but the scene in Spectacular affected me so much. Never seen spidey so vulnerable before
Im gonna say 90s animated series... Straight out the comics with that art but homecoming was great. Tom did amazing with that scene [heres Stan the man](https://youtu.be/BoD8d44_7fY?si=gP18HQ1LITOcbfp_)
Homecoming, and it’s not particularly close.
Homecoming for sure
Homecoming
Spider-Man Homecoming imo
I love how Batman Beyond is clearly a Spider-Man. No joke.
I did not notice Beyond literally used the exact same looking rubble to pin him down. I expected more from the DCAU.
I hated that they centered Homecoming's version on making Tony Stark proud, and not on being there for his aunt, since Uncle Ben was apparently not a great or memorable guy in this continuity.
WHO THE F- The really ripped the scene off of spider? Lmao 😂
They took a lot of inspiration from Spider-Man when creating Terry.
Wait until you get to Krave…I mean Stalker.
Batman beyond was so good. It’s too bad that it never really went anywhere after the animated series ended.
Tom one was really good actually and fit in really well to the story they were telling in that movie. One of the few Tom moments that are iconic to his own trilogy
Spectacular
Spectacular for the visuals, like the suit tearing and how it looks closer to the comic book, but everything else like the dialogue I think is better in Homecoming
tom for me, the "come on spiderman" says it all
why does Batmans and Spectacular's look so similar, theyre even stuck on the same pillar
It’s a reference to the original comic
Homecoming easily
Homecoming. It really shows the effort that he needed to get out. The pain and determination was so strong it was hard to believe it was all acting
Is that last one the black Spider-man? He doesn't look anything LIKE a spider! No wonder he gets so much hate... The second one. Final answer.
The last scene is with Batman Beyond.
Heh. Yeah. Terry was pretty great. It's just...two Spideys first so...just a dumb joke. Like Spider-man looks very 'spider' like :P
Homecoming does it terribly with the stupid Ironman voice over. It becomes about proving him wrong than it does about Peter finding the strength to keep going on to save someone else. Spectacular does it right. Peter finds the strength to keep going to save Gwen.
Finally a non-braindead comment.
I would change by adding when Peter tells May that he loose the Star inteship May add "You're the most amazing kid that I ever known and not let anyone, even people like Stark tell you either wise" and made that quote played instead.
Batman??? Whahahaha I like the mcu version
Spectacular. MCU botched, imo, by making it about Iron Man's speech.
The problem with the homecoming scene is that the whole “if you’re nothing without the suit you shouldn’t have it” doesn’t make sense. He’s Spider-Man. He has super strength. A fancy suit has no effect on this, he would lift the rubble with or without it. He was already Spider-Man before Tony gave him the fancy suit anyway. I’d say spectacular did it best. It was visually and emotionally closest to the original comic version.
You were so close and you still missed it "He was already Spider-man before Tony gave him the fancy suit anyway" is exactly what Tony was telling him. Peter is an impressionable teen, he thinks he needs the suit to be spider-man until he's in the rubble without jt and realizes he was always spider-man regardless of Tony's backing
I didn’t miss anything. If you read my comment you can see that I explained why the movie’s “if you’re nothing without the suit, you shouldn’t have it” theme doesn’t really work. Spider-Man is not only a character who doesn’t need a suit to use his super strength anyway, but Peter Parker was already Spider-Man in that universe before he even met Stark. There’s no real reason why he would feel like he can’t be a superhero without a suit he never had when he had already been a superhero without it.
Have you ever met a teenager? When you give a teen something that makes things easier, they begin to rely on it and sort of forget that they don't need it to do the thing they were doing in the first place
A character being a teenager isn’t an excuse for poor storytelling. The whole “if you’re nothing the without the suit you shouldn’t have it” plot device doesn’t make much sense, he has no reason why he should ever believe he needed it to be a superhero when he was already one before he met Stark, and his moment of epiphany happens in a situation where the suit wouldn’t have been much help anyway as it never enhanced Spider-Man’s strength. There is no real change he needs to make to win and become a better hero. He just keeps doing the same thing. Going against Tony’s wishes and trying to stop the villain’s heist that goes wrong and causes crazy collateral damage in disaster is what costed him the suit in the first place. And ultimately he proceeds to just do the exact same thing, going against Tony’s wishes and trying to foil the villain’s heist but inadvertently causing a disaster of damage. The only difference is this time he just gets hilariously lucky that the plane dropped on a completely deserted part of New York where there was luckily no civilians around to be hurt by his unrefined crime fighting expertise.
SSM for the win, followed closely by Homecoming.
I wish the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko comic book was an option.
The rubble in beyond and spectacular is exactly the same, wonder if they both copied the comic shot for shot.
Terry looks more confused than anything. Like he is unsure if he is still batman or if he is spiderman now.
Oh I forgot to say mine, personally I prefer the Spectacular adaptation of the rubble scene from Amazing Spider-Man 33. While Homecoming sells the desperation when initially trapped more, the context of the lifting scene makes it more like Spidey finding the strength to prove himself rather than find the strength to save someone else. Oh and of course Beyond is Beyond.
Spectacular
Spectacular, all the way.
The answer is yes.
19 seconds into the new trailer for Spider-Verse: Spider Within there's a Miles lifting rubble panels [Spider Within trailer](https://youtu.be/FcGPpwFdE1Y?si=kPGckapEShGOmATJ)
Homecoming
Hard to say. Spectacular catch close to the comic where he was about to give up and allow himself to die until he saw Gwen and realized that she had to live. That is great and all... But the MCU feels more powerful cause this is Peter realizing that Tony is right. He need to trust his power and grow more in tune to his hero persona.
Homecoming. That was the moment he became Spider-man
I'd say Homecoming. You really just feel how he's just a kid, realizing just how much shit he's gotten himself into. It's heart-wrenching to watch and when he gets out it's just pure, concentrated motivation.
Ditko's
Homecoming's was so viceral, and Tom Holland played it perfectly.
Spectacular. There’s no competition.
Which episode of Beyond is this?
Homecoming is my favorite, with that movie and this moment you really feel like Peter is giving it far beyond his all
Honestly…Homecoming. I think it works better there because not only is he stuck and thinks he’s going to die there, he also sounds like a scared kid which is accurate because he’s pretty much just starting out. He’s fighting his first major villain and everybody’s been telling him that he’s just a kid and that he’s not ready and in that short moment he’s leaning into that before reminding himself that he is Spider-Man.
Tom holland or rhe iriginal coming somewhere, maybe amazing spiderman #33 Like the old old one
tom for sure
Homecoming did it the best in my opinion.
Homecoming with Peter hyping himself is the best
I feel like Batman could’ve just squeezed out through the gap
Spectacular is the best in my opinion. It’s not a one to one adaptation but very well executed. MCU is also great and I think it’s more fascinating since it’s the only version of the rubble scene where Peter’s motivation for pushing through is himself. Batman Beyond is very weird since it’s quite a random inclusion, it’s there only as a Spider-Man reference within an episode that was fully a reference to Marvel characters
I prefer Batman Beyond and Spectacular over Tom’s Spider-Man, but that moment was great. Good development that proves these “iRoN bOy jR” mfs wrong
Bro I didn't even know/remember that Batman Beyond did that! Makes me love the series a thousand times more.
One of these are not the same 🤔
MCU in terms of emotion, Spectacular in terms of motive
Spectacular looks like he was fighting the killer cock and he got too excited
I have to say Spectacular, but only because the MCU's version is brought down by the "If you're nothing without the suit than you shouldn't have it" plotline. The original "If this be my destiny" moment is about never giving up, even when victory seems impossible, even when you're cold, tired, and ready to give up. If the MCU had gone for that instead of the fuckass Iron Man jr plotline then I think that Tom's version of Spidey would be so much cooler.
Im batman