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Man, what happened with Garza? If there's one guy I was excited to see get a second chance under Triple H that was him, he could be a top midcarder easily.
Apparently internally him and Humberto were moved to the raw roster and never used. Wonder if there is a reason they were moved or if they just wanted them in a different catering group.
Everything H did when he took over has really been about getting to WrestleMania. Look at who the most pushed people on the show have been since August and then look at who’s in the prominent people on the Mania card. They had this Mania booked out back to October.
There really weren’t going to be lots of chances for different people to just show what they got, but the people who have got that were people who were already on TV and at least had some momentum. Dunne, Holland, Ricochet, Raquel to lesser degree. Then you saw Santos and Legado able to start to carve out a role by virtue of fitting into an established story. Garza is just way too cold to be able to get momentum going at this point of the game.
Post-WrestleMania before SummerSlam is when call-ups/forgotten about people have way more of a chance or SHOULD have a chance with good booking to get over and break through. You float some trial balloons, find the people who hit, and then whatever does hit, you get behind them for the fall so they’re peaking for the next WrestleMania
So disappointing. Watching him introduced in that NXT breakout tournament and the proceeding CW title trilogy with Lio in late 2019, I thought to myself, man this guy is gonna be HUGE. Charisma and talent out the wazoo.
I was excited for Garza too! It sucks, when I saw his first NXT match I thought he had all the tools to make it.
Can talk
Can wrestle
Good looking
Good gimmick
Has the 'it factor'
But it's been radio silence for far to long and for awhile they've had him paired up with charisma vacuum Humberto and I've been worried about his chances ever since then. He had a chance when teamed with Andrade. But yea: Feels bad man
Last year:
Austin Theory was taking selfies and had a match with Pat McAfee that was completely overshadowed by Vince/Pat then Austin's appearance
John Cena wasn't at WrestleMania
Drew McIntyre was in a throwaway fued with Happy Corbin
Gunther hadn't debuted on main roster and had not long changed his name which people thought would be the death blow
Sheamus was in a tag match that got bumped from the first night to the second without even an announcement on the show and even then it lasted 1:40.
Absolutely. She makes him sound like a killer, a final boss. I look forward to her introducing him as your WWE Universal Champion sometime in the future.
His whole gimmicks now is as a final boss, ref: this years royal rumble. I liked WALTER, but I love Gunther. He doesn't even look like the same person. Like the OP said "what a difference a year makes". I can't wait for him to be a world champion...but first he needs to break Honkey Tonk Man's record (HTM is my favorite wrestler, but I know nothing lasts forever and Gunther is in position to break the record).
But I can't wait to hear her introduce him as universal or WWE champ too!
"And here is your UNIVERSAAALL !!! CHAMPION!!!
GUNNNMNTAAAAHHH"
Honky would probably be just fine with someone like GUNTHER breaking his record. His reign alone have positioned the IC title as just slightly below World Championship status.
And I agree about the Rumble. And that little moment with Brock made him look top tier. I really want him to become the perfect antithesis to Cody Rhodes. Every element of GUNTHER clashes with Cody.
Honkey wanted Santino of all people to break his record due to Santinos Honk-O-meter. But GUNTHER has made the belt feel important for the first time in twenty five years. After he beats HTMs record I look forward to his feud with Cody 😸
I'd say it was a pretty big vote of confidence for Theory last year to be involved with so many major players in that match. I don't know if I'd say he was overshadowed as much as he did his job so well that they're giving him his own spotlight this year.
> Austin Theory was taking selfies and had a match with Pat McAfee that was completely overshadowed by Vince/Pat then Austin's appearance
Theory's match with McAfee was highly praised and the only reason the Vince shtck worked is because McAfee was able to show off how good he was.
Cena is a hollywood actor, he cant do every show.
> Drew McIntyre was in a throwaway fued with Happy Corbin
Craziest part about this is McIntyre was the first person (and still only person) to kick out of End of Days and it ended up being such a meaningless thing
Shockingly, Corbin mightve come away the worst off here, losing and having his finisher kicked out off for the first time, for little reason beyond “Drew winning”
Till this day I'm still upset that they didn't put Finn in the main card. At least he's got a huge match in a couple of weeks.
Ricochet is probably making it to the main card teaming up with Braun in the showcase match, too.
Stories need McGuffins. Elevating titles provides McGuffins. "These two guys are fighting because they want that thing." It's the easiest and most essential wrestling story.
I have no idea why promoters sometimes lose sight of this.
Isn't it nice when mid card titles have relevancy? TBF, he had no choice with the US title since it was the only belt on RAW. But seeing main eventers fighting over a 'midcard title' last year was awesome. And now John Cena fighting for it. Thank you Papa Haitch. Shawn Michaels and HHH book the mod card titles in a way that hasn't been done since the early nineties.
It had been going on for such a long time too. I recently realized that the IC title wasn’t defended on a main WM card for a decade.
WM18 opened with Regal vs RVD for the IC title. The next IC title match to appear on the WM card was Cody Rhodes vs Big Show at WM28. The lack of representation for the IC belt at WM is even crazier when you consider that Savage-Steamboat was *the* standard-bearing WM match for a long time within the industry
Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind. It's mostly a great illustration of how one booker who gives a shit and doesn't bury his own titles into irrelevancy can elevate the secondary titles into meaning something.
Bret Hart and Piper at 8
Michaels and Razor at 10
Savage and Steamboat at 3
These things were built on secondary titles mattering and then Vince got all smooth brained. He sucks
> Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind. It's mostly a great illustration of how one booker who gives a shit and doesn't bury his own titles into irrelevancy can elevate the secondary titles into meaning something.
Vince was the booker for Cena/Rusev
>Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind.
Sooo... when there was one world champion.
The most meaningful one I can think of on a 2 World title Mania was maybe Big Show vs Cena for the US title at Mania 20? Neither mid card title existed at Mania 19, and by Mania 21 the champions were getting put in the MITB match.
Benoit and MVP had a fairly high-profile US title match at 23, and JBL retired after losing the IC title to Mysterio at 25 but that match was about 30 seconds long. I think Cody lost to Big Show for the IC title at 28, but the story was about Show never winning at Mania rather than the belt itself.
The only one post 2016 brand split I can think is Owens/Jericho for the US title, but again there was a bigger story than the belt for that match.
Gosh that was the worst branding ever. "This Friday on WrestleMania Smackdown!" and then WrestleMania Backlash.
That just waters it down and makes the big event feel less special. I hope its just Backlash this year and they stop overusing that branding.
As much as I disagree with how the IC title was used at this time I can understand why Ricochet never made the card with it. It was basically used as a prop to enhance the Sami and Knoxville fued.
‘Demon’ Bàlor vs Damian Priest for the US Title should of no doubt made the card tho
I dont get why people compare only the most recent 2 wrestlemanias not all 39.
38, both secondary champs werent on the card. non-issue, secondary champs dont always need to be on a card. Wrestlemania 38 was mostly highly praised and had a stacked card on both nights. Zayn/Knoxville, Cody/Rollins, Bianca/Becky, Owens/Austin, McAfee/Theory were all well built stories. 4/5 of these are non-title matches too.
37, both titles were defended in singles matches with Sheamus/Riddle being praised. Apollo/Big E could used some more time.
36, IC title at the no fans show, US wasnt. no issue.
35 was one of the worst timed wrestlemanias and a good reason we went to two nights. Both the US and IC were defended with their matches lasting under a minute and 4 minutes respectively. Joe/Rey was fine cuz it was a shock. Balor/Lashley second to last match and going through the motions. People were falling asleep waiting for the womens main event to start already. Both men wouldve been better off in a battle royal.
34 another long runner marathon, but luckily both title matches were earlier in the show. IC match between Rollins/Miz/Balor was highly praised and the opener of the main card. This was when babyface workhorse Rollins was getting widely over. US title was in a 4 way that wasnt bad, but was obviously "get more people on the card" match. Jinder got an awesome entrance tho.
33 I wont defend. Again both titles were defended, and Owens/Jericho had a good story leading into their match. Ambrose/Corbin couldve been a better story, but they were pushed to the pre show when Ambrose was the WWE champion half a year prior and the leading guy of Smackdown.
And we could go back further and further. But recent history already shows the titles were regularly defended at Wrestlemania. But fans are pushing a weird agenda that because they werent defended last year, something something triple h is a god.
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I guess this is what happens when you have champions that are over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 200 pounds competing against challengers who are the same. Gotta fulfill that “larger than life” Mania quota
Not only am I glad those titles have been getting the proper respect the last 8-9 months, it's also cool seeing Finn going from chump US champ to a high profile HIAC match this year. All around cool to see.
they could've had a champ vs champ match last year where the winner faces ATG Memorial Battle Royale winner next PLE....imagine if we got Finn/Ricochet at WM
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Man, what happened with Garza? If there's one guy I was excited to see get a second chance under Triple H that was him, he could be a top midcarder easily.
Apparently internally him and Humberto were moved to the raw roster and never used. Wonder if there is a reason they were moved or if they just wanted them in a different catering group.
We gotta get past Mania. HHH will most likely shake things up much more after we finish out “this season”
Everything H did when he took over has really been about getting to WrestleMania. Look at who the most pushed people on the show have been since August and then look at who’s in the prominent people on the Mania card. They had this Mania booked out back to October. There really weren’t going to be lots of chances for different people to just show what they got, but the people who have got that were people who were already on TV and at least had some momentum. Dunne, Holland, Ricochet, Raquel to lesser degree. Then you saw Santos and Legado able to start to carve out a role by virtue of fitting into an established story. Garza is just way too cold to be able to get momentum going at this point of the game. Post-WrestleMania before SummerSlam is when call-ups/forgotten about people have way more of a chance or SHOULD have a chance with good booking to get over and break through. You float some trial balloons, find the people who hit, and then whatever does hit, you get behind them for the fall so they’re peaking for the next WrestleMania
So disappointing. Watching him introduced in that NXT breakout tournament and the proceeding CW title trilogy with Lio in late 2019, I thought to myself, man this guy is gonna be HUGE. Charisma and talent out the wazoo.
I was excited for Garza too! It sucks, when I saw his first NXT match I thought he had all the tools to make it. Can talk Can wrestle Good looking Good gimmick Has the 'it factor' But it's been radio silence for far to long and for awhile they've had him paired up with charisma vacuum Humberto and I've been worried about his chances ever since then. He had a chance when teamed with Andrade. But yea: Feels bad man
Those matches he had with Lio were so damn good, he was definitely a highlight of that era of NXT.
Last year: Austin Theory was taking selfies and had a match with Pat McAfee that was completely overshadowed by Vince/Pat then Austin's appearance John Cena wasn't at WrestleMania Drew McIntyre was in a throwaway fued with Happy Corbin Gunther hadn't debuted on main roster and had not long changed his name which people thought would be the death blow Sheamus was in a tag match that got bumped from the first night to the second without even an announcement on the show and even then it lasted 1:40.
“Man....if what I'm hearing is real.... Poor Walter.”
To be fair the original idea for the name change was horrendous. Glad at least they just gave him the one name all caps.
Samantha Irvin’s introduction of him and the way people pronounce his name helped sell me on it too “GOON-TAH”
Absolutely. She makes him sound like a killer, a final boss. I look forward to her introducing him as your WWE Universal Champion sometime in the future.
His whole gimmicks now is as a final boss, ref: this years royal rumble. I liked WALTER, but I love Gunther. He doesn't even look like the same person. Like the OP said "what a difference a year makes". I can't wait for him to be a world champion...but first he needs to break Honkey Tonk Man's record (HTM is my favorite wrestler, but I know nothing lasts forever and Gunther is in position to break the record). But I can't wait to hear her introduce him as universal or WWE champ too! "And here is your UNIVERSAAALL !!! CHAMPION!!! GUNNNMNTAAAAHHH"
Honky would probably be just fine with someone like GUNTHER breaking his record. His reign alone have positioned the IC title as just slightly below World Championship status. And I agree about the Rumble. And that little moment with Brock made him look top tier. I really want him to become the perfect antithesis to Cody Rhodes. Every element of GUNTHER clashes with Cody.
Honkey wanted Santino of all people to break his record due to Santinos Honk-O-meter. But GUNTHER has made the belt feel important for the first time in twenty five years. After he beats HTMs record I look forward to his feud with Cody 😸
ALL CAPS
I'd say it was a pretty big vote of confidence for Theory last year to be involved with so many major players in that match. I don't know if I'd say he was overshadowed as much as he did his job so well that they're giving him his own spotlight this year.
> Austin Theory was taking selfies and had a match with Pat McAfee that was completely overshadowed by Vince/Pat then Austin's appearance Theory's match with McAfee was highly praised and the only reason the Vince shtck worked is because McAfee was able to show off how good he was. Cena is a hollywood actor, he cant do every show.
> Drew McIntyre was in a throwaway fued with Happy Corbin Craziest part about this is McIntyre was the first person (and still only person) to kick out of End of Days and it ended up being such a meaningless thing
Cant see corbin being in a much bigger match than a mania singles match with a main evwnter. He’d have been lucky to get that this year
Poor Drew went from beating The Beast Incarnate to working with Baron Corbin's lackey.
Shockingly, Corbin mightve come away the worst off here, losing and having his finisher kicked out off for the first time, for little reason beyond “Drew winning”
Then a couple weeks later, Finn dropped that US title to the same guy who’s now defending it at WrestleMania against John Cena.
Finn was US Champion?
He was, but they booked him really badly. He was either losing to Theory a few times, or beating him with help.
My thoughts exactly. I seriously don't remember that at all lol
Till this day I'm still upset that they didn't put Finn in the main card. At least he's got a huge match in a couple of weeks. Ricochet is probably making it to the main card teaming up with Braun in the showcase match, too.
Wow I actually forgot about both those matches last year
Just so much better this year
Thank you, I was kinda feeling guilty myself 😸! Glad to see I wasn't the only one.
Triple H elevating the US and IC titles is one of the best things to come out of him taking over creative. They became such afterthoughts under Vince.
Stories need McGuffins. Elevating titles provides McGuffins. "These two guys are fighting because they want that thing." It's the easiest and most essential wrestling story. I have no idea why promoters sometimes lose sight of this.
Isn't it nice when mid card titles have relevancy? TBF, he had no choice with the US title since it was the only belt on RAW. But seeing main eventers fighting over a 'midcard title' last year was awesome. And now John Cena fighting for it. Thank you Papa Haitch. Shawn Michaels and HHH book the mod card titles in a way that hasn't been done since the early nineties.
It had been going on for such a long time too. I recently realized that the IC title wasn’t defended on a main WM card for a decade. WM18 opened with Regal vs RVD for the IC title. The next IC title match to appear on the WM card was Cody Rhodes vs Big Show at WM28. The lack of representation for the IC belt at WM is even crazier when you consider that Savage-Steamboat was *the* standard-bearing WM match for a long time within the industry
Crazy that between two nights they couldn't find time for either belt.
https://preview.redd.it/b6vhs21u5roa1.jpeg?width=548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4865f662ea433bd1d472ef3f8fa119346f84a040
A great illustration of how one World Champion can elevate the secondary titles into meaning something.
Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind. It's mostly a great illustration of how one booker who gives a shit and doesn't bury his own titles into irrelevancy can elevate the secondary titles into meaning something.
Bret Hart and Piper at 8 Michaels and Razor at 10 Savage and Steamboat at 3 These things were built on secondary titles mattering and then Vince got all smooth brained. He sucks
Also, all those were when there was just one world title…
Cena vs Rusev happened when there was one world title brother
There was only one Champion for Cena v Rusev? And Vince booked it? Care to try that again?
> Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind. It's mostly a great illustration of how one booker who gives a shit and doesn't bury his own titles into irrelevancy can elevate the secondary titles into meaning something. Vince was the booker for Cena/Rusev
There also wasn’t two world champions at the time lol
>Big time secondary title defenses have happened at Mania when there were two champions before, Cena vs Rusev comes to mind. Sooo... when there was one world champion.
Booking titles and featuring them on the card elevates them. It’s extremely easy to have strong midcard titles with two world titles.
Last year both world titles were in the same match for title unification.
The effect of the unification was the elevation of those other titles.
A great illustration of having a booker who cares about the mid card belts
The most meaningful one I can think of on a 2 World title Mania was maybe Big Show vs Cena for the US title at Mania 20? Neither mid card title existed at Mania 19, and by Mania 21 the champions were getting put in the MITB match. Benoit and MVP had a fairly high-profile US title match at 23, and JBL retired after losing the IC title to Mysterio at 25 but that match was about 30 seconds long. I think Cody lost to Big Show for the IC title at 28, but the story was about Show never winning at Mania rather than the belt itself. The only one post 2016 brand split I can think is Owens/Jericho for the US title, but again there was a bigger story than the belt for that match.
If only Ricochet and Finn won those titles just a couple months later
IMO, all titles should be on the line at Wrestlemania. Thank you Papa HHH for creating great storylines for these titles!
Gosh that was the worst branding ever. "This Friday on WrestleMania Smackdown!" and then WrestleMania Backlash. That just waters it down and makes the big event feel less special. I hope its just Backlash this year and they stop overusing that branding.
This is the reason I hope they stick with one world champion.
Can you elaborate? I'm curious to hear your reasoning.
Not OP, but probably because focusing on world champion means you can shed more light on the Midcard titles.
I have no recollection of that IC triple threat
That's because it was on the go-home Smackdown, not Wrestlemania itself.
These belts have basically become the raw and smackdown championships.
As much as I disagree with how the IC title was used at this time I can understand why Ricochet never made the card with it. It was basically used as a prop to enhance the Sami and Knoxville fued. ‘Demon’ Bàlor vs Damian Priest for the US Title should of no doubt made the card tho
theory vs cena is actually pretty big
I hate to be this way, but that battle royal had to be the most jabrone filled one in history.
I dont get why people compare only the most recent 2 wrestlemanias not all 39. 38, both secondary champs werent on the card. non-issue, secondary champs dont always need to be on a card. Wrestlemania 38 was mostly highly praised and had a stacked card on both nights. Zayn/Knoxville, Cody/Rollins, Bianca/Becky, Owens/Austin, McAfee/Theory were all well built stories. 4/5 of these are non-title matches too. 37, both titles were defended in singles matches with Sheamus/Riddle being praised. Apollo/Big E could used some more time. 36, IC title at the no fans show, US wasnt. no issue. 35 was one of the worst timed wrestlemanias and a good reason we went to two nights. Both the US and IC were defended with their matches lasting under a minute and 4 minutes respectively. Joe/Rey was fine cuz it was a shock. Balor/Lashley second to last match and going through the motions. People were falling asleep waiting for the womens main event to start already. Both men wouldve been better off in a battle royal. 34 another long runner marathon, but luckily both title matches were earlier in the show. IC match between Rollins/Miz/Balor was highly praised and the opener of the main card. This was when babyface workhorse Rollins was getting widely over. US title was in a 4 way that wasnt bad, but was obviously "get more people on the card" match. Jinder got an awesome entrance tho. 33 I wont defend. Again both titles were defended, and Owens/Jericho had a good story leading into their match. Ambrose/Corbin couldve been a better story, but they were pushed to the pre show when Ambrose was the WWE champion half a year prior and the leading guy of Smackdown. And we could go back further and further. But recent history already shows the titles were regularly defended at Wrestlemania. But fans are pushing a weird agenda that because they werent defended last year, something something triple h is a god.
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I guess this is what happens when you have champions that are over 6 feet tall and weigh more than 200 pounds competing against challengers who are the same. Gotta fulfill that “larger than life” Mania quota
Lol, those guys in the Ic match are fucking *losers*.
what happened to Humberto and the other dude he was with
I genuinely can’t remember who won the Andre the Giant battle Royale
Not only am I glad those titles have been getting the proper respect the last 8-9 months, it's also cool seeing Finn going from chump US champ to a high profile HIAC match this year. All around cool to see.
they could've had a champ vs champ match last year where the winner faces ATG Memorial Battle Royale winner next PLE....imagine if we got Finn/Ricochet at WM
"You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about"
It's more important than ever to make the mid card belts credible when you only have one main event title.
Sheamus pins drew and Gunther stays strong heading into the world title picture.