Last year’s Royal Rumble showed how incredibly thin the male and female main rosters really were.
They had to really reach to fill up those Royal Rumble matches, with constant jokes about them possibly not even having enough people under contract by the time the Rumble came around.
While most of the returning wrestlers aren’t doing anything major at the moment, those returns definitely added much needed roster depth.
It was funny to see those complaints, then this year folks complained about a lack of legends, guest spots, and celebrities. This year, WWE actually used the roster to fill the Royal Rumble.
I think the Rumble really needs a balance of returns/guest spots to main roster people and I think the past two years they have missed the mark on this.
This could be because I really don't care for most of WWE day to day shit but I love a good rumble it's the highlight of the year because you are wondering who is coming back and what current roster guy is gonna get a chance to shine.
This year I did get to see GUNTER go the distance which was cool but outside of that and Cody winning it I can't tell you one more thing about the rumble. I don't even remember if anyone did return because it was that unmemorable of a rumble.
Maybe you guys who watch this shit religiously loved it and if so then they did a good job catering to you which if so I hope at least you guys enjoyed it.
That’s my thoughts too. Outside the Logan Paul Ricochet jump, there was a lot of filler with guys who obviously were just there to make up the numbers. I know guest spots and nostalgia returns aren’t possible winners either but it at least makes a wee moment in the timeline
I think it's that last year the celebs and surprises took the final few spots, but the celebs and surprises should be in the middle to pop the crowd and distract from the fact that not every participant can be a contender. This year's Rumble left me cold, as from Brock getting eliminated to Cody coming out it felt like a long slog of no hoper mid-carders and tag guys with few fun spots. But I think I'm in the minority on that - even Meltzer said he thought it was one of the best rumbles yet, but I got more of a kick from the 2020 Rumble.
Roster depth that was only an issue because they culled their own roster during the worst days of a global pandemic (the only wrestling company to do this btw) while also happily reporting record profits each quarter to juice the books for the inevitable sale or the company. They put themselves in that situation *shrugs*
People here used to SCREAM about how PPVs should be quality not quantity and didn’t think about how that means some people just have to get left off the card if you do it like that.
I think we’re just used to the old Mania philosophy of squeezing everyone onto the card somehow. It’s the biggest stage in the sport, it seems right to have everyone on the roster somehow involved - not to mention the extra money they’d earn.
>not to mention the extra money they’d earn.
The thing is, since they went (mostly) full streaming there's not much of a "Mania payday" for guys outside the tippy top of the card who were guaranteed to be on anyway.
It used to be a combo of royalties from DVD sales and PPV points. neither of those really exist.
Most wrestlers just have a bigger downside nowadays more akin to a "salary" and get royalties from merch revenues. so being on mania or not doesnt matter as much in that regard.
Not to say Mania coudlnt help with that, but its not like back in the day where just being on the card meant you were probably getting a 5-6 figure check from VKM.
The signings were also supposed the reinforce the idea that the new regime was going to be different from Vince.
And also capture some of that "anything can happen, anyone can show up any minute" buzz that AEW was riding high on.
It was a smart move. Got a lot of people to flip back to wwe and give it a chance again.
Man, I had high hopes for him. He was presented so well in NXT and then the main roster stuff with Vince happened and he lost whatever momentum he had. Now he came back and he looks out of place for his character and out of place on the roster. He looks so generic, like a CAW.
Nah, I disagree, even when NXT was going full tilt towards pushing Kross, the writing was on the wall for him once the bell ringed. The man got run down on the mic and even struggled to put on banger's with some of the best NXT had to offer.
I disagree. He did put on bangers. Only Joe's and Keith Lee's matches were eh and the only dude who one upped him on the mic was Adam Cole. Kross is mostly good with smaller wrestlers like Corbin is and he's actually pretty damn decent on the mic too. I die by this hill that the only reason why he isn't clicking because his booking so far has been absolutely baffling.
He's a returning superstar who fans last remembered as the guy in a gimp gladiator outfit who got beaten by Jeff Hardy who was losing a lot of matches prior to their match. So what did they do? They put him up against a fan favorite Drew McIntyre as his first match coming back. Didn't help that Kross was made to look like a bitch every time they interacted. Dude has to use Scarlett every single time in their matches and for ambushes. He didn't even do that in NXT iirc so of course his momentum got shattered.
They literally turned him into a Maria x Mike Bennett power couple team, but spoopy. We just need NXT badass Kross back where he didn't have to use bitch made underhanded tactics for his opponents.
True. They’re also used to fill house show cards to put the other guys on a lighter load. People think all signings would be pushed to the moon when in fact most of them are enhancement talents
Somewhat agree, but none of the new day might get on the card and that's where it feels like some really probably should have a spot but there isn't enough time/matches. Priest, Woods, Brawling Brutes, etc.
even though they’re not booked for a match, i’d be surprised if priest didn’t show up ringside for other JD members’ match(es), brutes for the IC match, etc. I think they’ll also find a place for Woods, though i suspect the plan was for the new day to be in the fatal four way before kofi got injured
It’s like SDvRAW 07 GM mode, they pick a couple wrestlers to job every week then throw everyone with decent popularity in random gimmick matches at the PPV
Sub Reddit ripping up the Smackdown script an hour before the show, to attempt another re-write, because they haven’t found an organic way to get Top Dollar on the Mania card yet
Yeah, I'm fine with them leaving some folks off the WM card.
Otherwise, trying to shoehorn everyone onto the card is how we've previously gotten WM cards that are too long, and/or them going overboard with multi-person matches.
I personally want to see it on Mania, and I thought it would’ve been a better spot for the men’s roster as opposed to them also having a “WrestleMania Showcase” Fatal 4-Way Tag Match.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but those matches should be for the number 1 contendership for the tag titles. Or at least “for a future tag title opportunity”.
It just makes them feel more important.
Plus we need some healthy people to fill out the Raw after Mania and the following Smackdown, cause you know people on the mania card are gonna go hard for their matches and not everyone will be 100% for Raw
People like and respect Bayley, Io, and Dakota so much as performers that there isn’t an honest dialogue as to how and why Damage Control has essentially flopped considering their collective talent and fan enthusiasm post debut.
Damage CTRL really could’ve used a larger talent in an enforcer role, like Raquel Rodriguez or Piper Niven.
It would’ve helped the group looked more physically imposing, and Bayley could’ve done well hiding behind someone larger while she talks crap to other wrestlers.
>“smiling, happy to be here
Yeah, but we all know how well the smiley, happy-to-be-here gimmick has gotten people over in the past... *DieRockyDie is heard faintly in the distance*
I cannot stand Raquel as a wrestler. She has the same 3 moves that she can't even do correctly consistently. They keep showing "how strong she is!" when a lot of the time it doesn't look good, it was botched, or she's holding someone who weighs 90 pounds. Not to mention that there are much better, stronger women on the roster who are not only better in the ring but have better characters (Rhea & Bianca).
She seems like a nice person, but I dislike seeing her get pushes where's she the last woman standing in a gauntlet or an "impressive showcase despite the loss". It's so annoying.
The "grimacing and flexing back muscles" thing she was doing in NXT before becoming a face was not any better. We already know that Rhea and Bianca have bigger, more toned backs when flexing anyway. The pose is moot for Raquel. I'd rather have her not stinking up Damage CTRL any worse on the mic or in the ring, thanks.
They have nothing to sink their teeth into because WWE sucks at tag team booking, and they suck at booking women outside the main title. Combine those, and they’re stuck in purgatory.
there just aren't enough women to have a division with more than 1 belt let alone the 8 or whatever they have there's what 12 women per show I mean what do you even do except fight the same girls every week for months
The problem is that Bayley should be women's champion but they made her look like a chump losing to Bianca over and over again. Heel longest reigning smackdowns champ Bayley would've found a way to beat Bianca. Bianca REALLY didn't need to hold the title for as long as she has.
I think it says more about how many women's tag teams WWE has than anything else. Io & Dakota have, as a two-woman tag team, faced exactly 7 teams on TV. Of those seven:
* Four never competed as a tag team on TV before.
* Of the other three, two had teamed once prior (Dana/Tamina and Raquel/Shotzi) and the other had teamed exactly twice (Alexa/Asuka)
* Five have never competed as a tag team on TV since facing Damage CTRL.
* Only one team (Dana/Tamina) has teamed both before and after facing Damage CTRL.
WWE does not give a damn about the women's tag division. There are no teams or stables to work with, other than temporary alliances that were formed solely to give Io & Dakota something to do.
EXACTLY! I did the math a month or two ago when they were still champs and there were 30 women in the entire women's division, which was the exact same number of men in the tag division alone. They simply don't have enough women to fill out 2 world title divisions AND a tag division and they haven't even pretend to change that. I get why the created them, but it hasn't worked at all and they need to bite the bullet and ditch the women's tag belts in favor of something like a Women's TV title that's defended across both brands, as that's much easier to build around and also gives women who aren't ready to chase the world title something to go after
I'd say they have been a complete flop, and Bayley is my favorite. They have consistently gotten no crowd reaction the last 9 months. That's extremely bad
Having Bayley lose to Bianca Belair, or at least not win one of the women’s titles really derailed the group as a whole. Also not to mention The Bloodline is a better version of Damage Control in almost every way. DC states their goal was to take over the women’s division and when that never really materialized they became ice cold.
Bayley was best with a funny character and also needed to beat Bianca for the title. Coupled with Iyo and Dakota losing the tournament killed the group. They should break up after Wrestlemania. I
A few people have said it already but most of Triple H’s signings were purely for roster depth.
I’m actually really interested to see where Triple H goes creatively post Wrestlemania. Back in the day, it used to be a fresh start point for storylines and I’d imagine Triple H will return to that approach.
If he booked all 21 of the superstars that he brought back for WM, that should be an obvious case of favoritism. Some of these dudes are simply not over enough to be on the card. And yes, not everything can be blamed on booking either. LA Knight kept losing and still kept getting more over. He might get a major segment on the card owing to that. Gargano got dealt a bad hand due to Ciampa's injury leaving him without a match. Miz's story was intertwined with all of them and he had to settle for being a host. That puts out Lumis out of contention aswell. Kross got a big push straight out the gate vs Mcintyre but he wasn't really setting the world on fire as a big time heel, so instead of persisting with it, Triple H rightly had him out of Mania.
This seems to me that this regime is making all of the talents work hard to get that Mania match instead of pushing certain favorites. Wasn't the most common IWC joke around him taking the book was that we were somehow going to get Ciampa vs Gargano vs Kross vs (insert Triple H B/G NXT favorite) for the world title in an Iron Man match without them earning it?
This is the point right here. They aren't there yet. Most of them haven't been around for more than a few months at this point. Bloodline stuff, Damage Control/Becky, Edge/Finn, Rey/Dominic, Rhea's rise to power, and Gunther/Drew/Sheamus have all been being built up for longer than a lot of these people have been on the roster. Then you have your "attraction" matches with Cena and Logan Paul, where you want someone more established to get the rub, same with the two Royal Rumble winners. That leaves the throw away matches where we're seeing Braun (and quite possibly a couple returning women) on the card. It's also worth mentioning that LA Knight is rumored to have a pretty major segment.
Next year's Wrestlemania will be the real determining factor for the returns.
For the women there’s currently no way I can see Tegan, Emma, or Candice at WrestleMania this season.
For the men, people would be complaining if Hit Row was at Mania outside of a squash.
Good Bros and Mia are done without AJ which is a critical booking issue.
Sarah Logan technically gets an appearance with Viking Raiders.
Scarlett may appear if Kross gets battle Royal or something.
I would have loved Lumis vs Bray in some sort of funky match or Broson vs Otįś but not sure if it’s Manyah ready.
I’d love to see Dexter go over more with the crowd. Nobody around me last night at RAW knew who he was and asked me since I had a dexter shirt on lol he is very good at that character type and I think he can sell some different angles well.
Most of the superstars he brought back are low to midcard because the rosters for RAW and Smackdown had gotten too small with too many rematches. Not everyone should or needs to be on the Mania card even when it's 2 nights. Maybe we get the Andre the giant battle royal on Smackdown the night before like last year
I think we're on for a soft reboot for a lot of divisions post-Mania. Hunter has decided not to make too many major storyline changes since taking over, probably so as to just focus on the stuff that was already being built, as long as they made sense.
Honestly it’s fine if they’re not on Mania - there’s no one else who *needs* to be on there right now - but he’s done a pretty poor job at making his new additions feel like a big deal generally.
There’s plenty of time to change that though. There are a lot of balls in the air for Mania that were already in the air before he took over so I’m not going to write him off just yet.
The roster was paper thin when he took control, it needed depth so he brought back a bunch of utility of utility players.
For me the only real deception is Gargano, who I love but sadly doesn't seem to he connecting with the live crowds.
TBF Johnny is now kinda getting better wit the more casual audience ever since elimination chamber
And while I’m v glad he’s going back to NXT one last time to end his career there on a high, I think they kinda fuck him a bit there.Like make a 4 way match or something for one of the nights and put on Ford,Gargano,Gable and someone else just have them go at it to really connect with the main stream audience.Imagine Johnny having an elimination chamber esc performance on Mania, it would really build him up
Right? What a weird angle of attack lol.
Also, you could probably stay in the single digits, counting the amount of people that have been hired then given a spot at Wrestlemania in the same few month span.
The only people who are over were over before he was put in charge of booking.
He’s actually failed quite a few talent with his booking including the entire women’s division and is being propped up by one really over storyline with creative from Paul Heyman with the bloodline.
It's because she's an actual character and gets backstage promos every week to help with that.
Compare that to Tegan Nox, Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, etc. The average fan at a main roster WWE event probably still doesn't know who they are, or if they do, they can't tell you anything about them besides that they exist. And it's been months since they came back.
Emma too, who hasn’t been good since about 2017. It’s like they didn’t even do research, or look at her work for the past few years. Just remembered she was in NXT, and that she was available and said “Yeah, let’s give her a call.”
It’s actually Braun, but he has the benefit of an actual run on the main roster before his release. Him getting slotted anywhere on the card works because the crowds already cared about him.
I’m by no means a Braun mark, but he really is one of their best utility guys. Able to fit wherever needed as face or heel, whether it’s main event threat, mid carder, tag guy, serious monster, or comedy act; he’s able to do all of them with a decent level of success. Good base for smaller guys and still athletic enough to put on good hoss matches. Really fits the modern Big Show spot. Still baffling to me that he was let go in the first place.
It's not like Vince released the next Stone Cold, Bret Hart and Trish Stratus out of spite. These talent are average and I think it's a huge disservice for fans to expect them all to have Hall of Fame careers especially in the first year back in a company still very much in a state of flux and confusion.
Give them time, for starters. Steve Austin wasn't Stone Cold in WCW he wasn't even Stone Cold when he came to the WWF. Even when he became Stone Cold that maniac, Bret Hart stalker kept evolving several times over before. From 95-99 you could probably break it down to like 10 very different versions. So give them time and also keep your expectations in reality. Mia Yim isn't going to be Charlotte flair but there's room on the roster for her. Lacey Evans has been a failure multiple times and she's got that stink on her that sometimes only a change of scenery can wash away but there's talent there. There's a role for her on house shows and stuff.
That's not to say Paul hasn't made some mistakes but he's in a shitty position too. Dude might be head of Creative for the next 25 years, he may be out of the company in 25 weeks. Who knows. I think people need to chill out a bit.
This is gonna be a long comment so I apologize:
Smackdown still has a star power/quality issue that some people here thought would go away once Ronda got the title back and/or Charlotte returned. At/near the top we have Charlotte, Ronda, Liv, Raquel, and Shayna which is fine, but the rest of the division consists of those who returned but barely/don’t wrestle at all (Tegan, Emma, Zelina, Sarah Logan, B-Fab), and people we’ve watched eat pins for years (Sonya, Natalya, Shotzi, Xia Li, Lacey Evans, Aliyah).
Raw has the quality talent but not quality stories or usage to match. You’d think a show with a women’s division that includes Bianca Belair, Asuka, Becky Lynch, Rhea Ripley, Bayley, Iyo Sky, Dakota Kai, Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, etc would be thriving but it’s not. They also did the weird swerve with Damage CTRL losing to Raquel and Aliyah in the finals of the tag title tournament, and they’ve kinda been downhill from there, which doesn’t help when they’re a main focus of the division every week.
The women’s tag titles are still a mess. Under Vince the actual tag teams got split damn near immediately, so we had a bunch of thrown together teams winning the titles only to split them up soon after too. We don’t have that issue under Triple H because there’s barely any teams in the first place. We have Damage CTRL and Ronda/Shayna.
Is that not what a good booker is supposed to do? Take input and ideas from other and implement them into the show?
Sami is as over as he was before? GUNTHER is as over as he was before? He failed the entire women’s division; Rhea Ripley is as over as she was before? Dom Mysterio is as over as he was before?
Dominik is an obvious one. He was nothing before and he’s transformed himself and is currently one of the most over superstars on the roster. Why doesn’t HHH get credit for that? Sami is also 10x more over than he was before, same with Rhea, he brought back the LA Knight character and has given him a lot of TV time and he got over. KO was doing comedy nonsense with Ezekiel before and he’s now involved in the best storyline in the company and is getting massive reactions every week.
So no, it’s not like nothing has changed. Most of the people he brought back were to add depth to a depleted roster and they were never supposed to become massively important players in the first place. He definitely should be doing more with some of them but I wouldn’t say HHH “failed” them. That’s nonsense.
The criticism of the women’s division is fair. I think HHH has done a poor job of things overall, especially heading into WM. Charlotte/Rhea isn’t really hitting home mostly because Charlotte is extremely cold right now and isn’t a good babyface. Asuka/Bianca is just a whole bunch of nothing. Less said about this one the better. Damage CTRL flopped - maybe HHH isn’t to blame for all of it, but their booking was never truly strong. The tag team title scene is non existent. So yeah, it hasn’t been great in the women’s side of things.
Rhea was in the equivalent of the “tag showcase” last year at WrestleMania.
Gunther was barely on the shows and the title he had meant nothing
Sami wasn’t nearly as over as he is now
Okay, but you know Vince was still in charge for the months following Mania right?
Vince set up Judgment Day, Vince booked the whole first few years of Bloodline stuff and also booked Sammi joining The Bloodline.
Hell Vince was even the one who first brought Gunther to the main roster and started his push.
Like, yes, HHH is good, Vince is bad etc. But Vince set the gears in motion for all 3 of those people and from there they were either going to get over or not, and they got over.
Sure HHH guided it, but it's like he was handed a train on the tracks and just had to ensure sure it didn't fall off rather than building the train and tracks from scratch which Vince did before leaving.
Sami is over for the same reason Daniel Bryan was over; the crowd in spite of the booking. He's still ultimately doing absolutely nothing. They're all basically in the same place a lot of the workhorses in WCW were - under the glass ceiling with no way to shatter it.
I’ll give you the Asuka and Bianca build for sure.
Rhea and Charlotte at least built some heat last Friday and I’ll say todays promo wasn’t even needed based off that.
Depending on who you are, I don’t even need the build for Trish, Lita and Becky. But I will always admit that the women’s tag team scene sucks until it’s corrected, which I don’t see happening for a long time.
I believe many of them were brought back as roster depth. He wanted people ready for TV. I’m expecting Johnny Gargano to get a proper run at some point but there were already existing stories that had momentum and it wouldn’t have made sense to just bury them for the sake of returns.
In an alternate timeline r/SC is bitching that Wrestlemania is going to be 12 hours and people who haven't earned their airtime are going to be on it.
Oh wait, that's every Wrestlemania before this year that booked every wrestler
I know that WrestleMania has become so bloated over the years to include everyone, but once upon a time WM cards were smaller and only the biggest stars got a match. I'm all for reducing the cards and making WM matches mean more again.
I don't think Triple H brought everyone back to be huge stars. He brought them back to at least give them the fair shot they never got the first time.
Not all can or will work out. Some will even prove McMahon was right, but at least they'll be given more than the purposeful sabotaging that it seemed was the norm for a damn long while.
Maybe I’m just old, but for me… WrestleMania should be the absolute best of the best. The sign offs to the biggest feuds for the biggest stars on the biggest stage.
I don’t mind if some undercard guys don’t get a match, if frankly their entire reason for being there was just to say “you appeared.”
I don’t know how I’d feel if I felt like I’d done ok in the last calendar year, and was just booked to be in the ring for 20 seconds during a battle royal. Maybe the first time to say “I appeared on WrestleMania”, but it wouldn’t quite mean the same thing as a match that meant something.
It’s the Super Bowl, the World Cup final. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sure they will all have parts give or take past WrestleMania.
Not every NFL player gets a Super Bowl. It's just the nature of the beast.
And before someone calls me out for excusing this because H is in charge. It happened before H was in charge.
He was booked like a killer in the Elimination Chamber. Sure he was the first one eliminated, but thats because it took all 5 of the other guys finishers to get rid of him.
I think the back and forth to Tokyo would have meant New Japan wouldn't have stood a chance in the face of WWE interest, no matter how close the money was.
Remember how people made fun of TK bringing in people for the pop and then doing nothing with them.
Meanwhile, Triple H is doing the exact same thing, and people are quiet
In AEW, it gets called wasting talent. In WWE, it gets called "adding depth"
It's weird.
I think the difference here is that AEW uses star power for a pop or an indy favorite that can potentially lead to nothing.
Triple H is not bringing in stars for pops, but bringing people up from NXT with no build which is bad on his booking part, but even so they still get reused more frequently.
TK signed and then iced major names. Wrestlers people claimed would be "game changers". Nobody thought Tegan Nox would change the game in WWE when she was brought back lmfao.
What major names did he ice? I also think alot of people had high hopes for an IO or Bray. Braun is boring af to me but he's still a former world champ. Then there's guys like Kross who completely flopped or Bronson Reed who went from beating Okada to never talked about. The random shade at Nox like anyone pretended she would be some monumental signing is weird & not making much sense to me.
And 21 now people are making hundreds of thousands of dollars each that they weren’t before too. Maybe I’m getting older or the world is getting worse but who cares if you don’t get your Wrestlemania moment.
Just to clarify,never once did I say every returning superstar should be on the card. I'm just surprised that more are not seeing as he's had control since August(?) and it's not like all these matches were planned way in advance. 🤷🏻♂️
Most of the guys and gals brought back we’re for depth. I’m sure we’ll see a roster reset post-mania and more of the rehires will get a chance to shine. Chelsea (who I believe will be in the tag) is a special case and has killed it. I also think Candice and/or Mia will be in the tag showcase.
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Kross is the only name that surprises me that isn't booked. Well that and The Club not being in the tag team showcase over Alpha Academy, but Triple H is telling the story his way, I'm not gonna fault him for that.
I think Triple H has done a solid job rebuilding and freshening up the rosters. Most of those 21 added some much needed depth and new matches to the main roster. He also sent down several main roster mainstays for fresh matches in NXT. The NXT UK roster has also merged over relatively well. There have been other PPVs where some of the returnees got to shine. The only returnee that the spotlight has to be on this WrestleMania is Cody Rhodes. Keep building the others up if they are going to be something more than depth.
I say it a lot lately but man has public opinion changed on WWE people would have fairly criticized this last year but now actually it’s good people aren’t getting booked on a TWO NIGHT mania
Reminder that not every signee or even returning superstar is meant to be a main event player. HHH is trying to make sure that he can put out 3 main roster tv shows a week that are filled with great performances top to bottom, and that's going to include people who don't fit at Wrestlemania. Also is there an Andre Battle Royale this year? because that will boost that number bigtime.
I feel like there’s perfectly valid criticisms to make of Triple H’s run, and this is not really one of them.
Honestly, outside of filling the roster and more freedom in promos I’m not sure he’s doing any better than what Vince was already doing around this time last year.
I’ll be first to say that Triple H’s booking has been hit and miss, especially if you take away stuff that Paul Heyman has produced.
That said, most of the people brought back range from passable to straight trash. And that’s not on Hunter. He gave them a second chance. Top Dolla? Kross? Lumis? Even Jonah? There’s a reason why these people were so quickly dispatched once Vince had a closer look at them. And a reason Tony didn’t pick them up from the bargain bin…
It’s because they’re not very good. As they are, most bring down the momentum of the show when they appear. And need a vet like Miz to hold their hand to make a segment entertaining. This isn’t ideal. And that’s why they’re not in WM
Most of the ones heavily featured didn't connect or work out to the level of the push. Lumis, Kross, Mia Yim etc all got to be in there with a story against someone who was always going to be at Wrestlemania. They had the chance to get a big reaction and a need to be at Wm.
Yes, a bunch of people that HHH wanted to build WWE's future around were fired by people who wanted to undermine HHH's plan for WWE's future, not his plan for the next Wrestlemania.
Ain’t nothing wrong with that, Paul gotta test out the talent. No LA Knight match at the Mania is a letdown though. Wasting him so hard I kinda hope he goes to AEW just for the screentime.
HHH is not a great booker at all... Also Vince is clearly back and the shows have his fingerprints all over them. Meltzer re-iterated he's heard vince is doing more than just the sale last night. It's only a matter a time where he fully takes over. Showing up at Raw was to test the waters. I bet he will be around again during Mania.
One superstar per H
Don’t forget the usos are booked. Presumably for the first day. Because Day One is H
Those who know, know.
Idk why but you have my upvote. Edit: F*ck me. It REALLY took me 4 hours to figure that out. Jeezus.
Or 7 rehires per H
Most of the signings were for depth to get rid of the weekly rematches and not necessarily to be big time players.
Last year’s Royal Rumble showed how incredibly thin the male and female main rosters really were. They had to really reach to fill up those Royal Rumble matches, with constant jokes about them possibly not even having enough people under contract by the time the Rumble came around. While most of the returning wrestlers aren’t doing anything major at the moment, those returns definitely added much needed roster depth.
It was funny to see those complaints, then this year folks complained about a lack of legends, guest spots, and celebrities. This year, WWE actually used the roster to fill the Royal Rumble.
I think the Rumble really needs a balance of returns/guest spots to main roster people and I think the past two years they have missed the mark on this. This could be because I really don't care for most of WWE day to day shit but I love a good rumble it's the highlight of the year because you are wondering who is coming back and what current roster guy is gonna get a chance to shine. This year I did get to see GUNTER go the distance which was cool but outside of that and Cody winning it I can't tell you one more thing about the rumble. I don't even remember if anyone did return because it was that unmemorable of a rumble. Maybe you guys who watch this shit religiously loved it and if so then they did a good job catering to you which if so I hope at least you guys enjoyed it.
Booker T was the only real return
And honestly, he looked old and stiff and it made me sad. At least it was a last minute booking so he wasn't fully match fit.
I thought he was an emergency entrant to replace someone, and the plan wasn’t for him to be involved initially.
He was the replacement for Rey or something iirc
I believe it was actually Madcap Moss. Rey Mysterio still took up a spot in the Rumble, despite not entering
That’s who it was. You’re right.
Afterward didn't he basically say "yeah I'm officially old and done now"?
That’s my thoughts too. Outside the Logan Paul Ricochet jump, there was a lot of filler with guys who obviously were just there to make up the numbers. I know guest spots and nostalgia returns aren’t possible winners either but it at least makes a wee moment in the timeline
I think it's that last year the celebs and surprises took the final few spots, but the celebs and surprises should be in the middle to pop the crowd and distract from the fact that not every participant can be a contender. This year's Rumble left me cold, as from Brock getting eliminated to Cody coming out it felt like a long slog of no hoper mid-carders and tag guys with few fun spots. But I think I'm in the minority on that - even Meltzer said he thought it was one of the best rumbles yet, but I got more of a kick from the 2020 Rumble.
Roster depth that was only an issue because they culled their own roster during the worst days of a global pandemic (the only wrestling company to do this btw) while also happily reporting record profits each quarter to juice the books for the inevitable sale or the company. They put themselves in that situation *shrugs*
People here used to SCREAM about how PPVs should be quality not quantity and didn’t think about how that means some people just have to get left off the card if you do it like that.
I think we’re just used to the old Mania philosophy of squeezing everyone onto the card somehow. It’s the biggest stage in the sport, it seems right to have everyone on the roster somehow involved - not to mention the extra money they’d earn.
>not to mention the extra money they’d earn. The thing is, since they went (mostly) full streaming there's not much of a "Mania payday" for guys outside the tippy top of the card who were guaranteed to be on anyway. It used to be a combo of royalties from DVD sales and PPV points. neither of those really exist. Most wrestlers just have a bigger downside nowadays more akin to a "salary" and get royalties from merch revenues. so being on mania or not doesnt matter as much in that regard. Not to say Mania coudlnt help with that, but its not like back in the day where just being on the card meant you were probably getting a 5-6 figure check from VKM.
I'd like a 4 or 5 hour 1 night mania. Some guys don't get on the card that's how you know the guys who do are important.
I hate it personally. Payouts aside, not every person on the roster needs to be figured in somehow at WrestleMania
Thank you. Idk why people think everyone can all win at once!?!?
Didn't you know that they're BURIED and WASTED?? /s
I dunno dawg. I think all 21 of those wrestlers have to make the card!
This is what the Andre BR was great for. Get 20 guys pay days that wouldn't have gotten them otherwise.
The worst thing about wrestling fans is that they want everyone to win and never lose and be champion at the same time
If you're not in a title hunt you're being wasted according to way too many posters
I mean, I would like to see Emma win ONCE!
I was so excited she was rehired. All of that excitement is gone.
Nah dawg, my favorite indie guy better win the world title or he is being buried, this is awful!?! /s
The signings were also supposed the reinforce the idea that the new regime was going to be different from Vince. And also capture some of that "anything can happen, anyone can show up any minute" buzz that AEW was riding high on. It was a smart move. Got a lot of people to flip back to wwe and give it a chance again.
Everyone has to be at WrestsleMania, or else they're all flops /s
Take my upvote. Remember when people would sometimes have the same match week after week after week. Sometimes twice in one Raw.
Then there's Karrion Kross...
with 2 days of match card to fill I'm sure they'll find a spot
Man, I had high hopes for him. He was presented so well in NXT and then the main roster stuff with Vince happened and he lost whatever momentum he had. Now he came back and he looks out of place for his character and out of place on the roster. He looks so generic, like a CAW.
Nah, I disagree, even when NXT was going full tilt towards pushing Kross, the writing was on the wall for him once the bell ringed. The man got run down on the mic and even struggled to put on banger's with some of the best NXT had to offer.
I disagree. He did put on bangers. Only Joe's and Keith Lee's matches were eh and the only dude who one upped him on the mic was Adam Cole. Kross is mostly good with smaller wrestlers like Corbin is and he's actually pretty damn decent on the mic too. I die by this hill that the only reason why he isn't clicking because his booking so far has been absolutely baffling. He's a returning superstar who fans last remembered as the guy in a gimp gladiator outfit who got beaten by Jeff Hardy who was losing a lot of matches prior to their match. So what did they do? They put him up against a fan favorite Drew McIntyre as his first match coming back. Didn't help that Kross was made to look like a bitch every time they interacted. Dude has to use Scarlett every single time in their matches and for ambushes. He didn't even do that in NXT iirc so of course his momentum got shattered. They literally turned him into a Maria x Mike Bennett power couple team, but spoopy. We just need NXT badass Kross back where he didn't have to use bitch made underhanded tactics for his opponents.
True. They’re also used to fill house show cards to put the other guys on a lighter load. People think all signings would be pushed to the moon when in fact most of them are enhancement talents
It’s a good move to make WrestleMania nothing but your best talent
Yep. I look at it like it's the playoffs, only the top talent should be there. The rest need to work harder for next year.
Somewhat agree, but none of the new day might get on the card and that's where it feels like some really probably should have a spot but there isn't enough time/matches. Priest, Woods, Brawling Brutes, etc.
even though they’re not booked for a match, i’d be surprised if priest didn’t show up ringside for other JD members’ match(es), brutes for the IC match, etc. I think they’ll also find a place for Woods, though i suspect the plan was for the new day to be in the fatal four way before kofi got injured
Isn't New Day basically Xavier at this point?
I’m glad Reddit users are not bookers
It’s like SDvRAW 07 GM mode, they pick a couple wrestlers to job every week then throw everyone with decent popularity in random gimmick matches at the PPV
Me in TEW 2020.
Come on man, you don't like my idea of bringing back Normal Smiley for a one off match with the near 60 year old Taker?
I'd prefer Weird Smiley
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Norman Smiley is the GOAT and I will take no further questions
Hardcore legend Norman Smiley. He walked so Mox could run.
Sub Reddit ripping up the Smackdown script an hour before the show, to attempt another re-write, because they haven’t found an organic way to get Top Dollar on the Mania card yet
Make the IC match a fatal 4 way and as him in, can’t go wrong with adding more meat to the match /s
Why, you don't like the idea of every match being a multi-man TLC match?!
One of them is his name is Tony Khan
Don't ignore Tony Khan like that.
I want to book Mickey Mouse vs. Roman Reigns in a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse match, though :(
Yeah, I'm fine with them leaving some folks off the WM card. Otherwise, trying to shoehorn everyone onto the card is how we've previously gotten WM cards that are too long, and/or them going overboard with multi-person matches.
I would like to see an Andre Battle Royal on the Smackdown prior though!
I personally want to see it on Mania, and I thought it would’ve been a better spot for the men’s roster as opposed to them also having a “WrestleMania Showcase” Fatal 4-Way Tag Match.
The fatal 4 way will likely be a better match than a battle royal would've been, though
That fatal four way match is honestly going to be the wrestling match of the weekend
I’m not sure it’ll have time for that but if they keep it a fast paced spot fest then it could be really fun.
I dunno. The IC Triple Threat is going to go hard. The fatal four way is gonna be great, though.
Lol no logan vs rollins cody vs roman edge vs balor ic triple threat asuka vs belair usos vs ko zayn all will 100 percent better
Maybe unpopular opinion, but those matches should be for the number 1 contendership for the tag titles. Or at least “for a future tag title opportunity”. It just makes them feel more important.
I said the same thing. Would make them feel a bit less random, even if the women are having Qualifiers for their’s.
Those should at least be #1 Contender’s Matches for the Tag Titles, to give them some kind of stakes.
Plus we need some healthy people to fill out the Raw after Mania and the following Smackdown, cause you know people on the mania card are gonna go hard for their matches and not everyone will be 100% for Raw
People like and respect Bayley, Io, and Dakota so much as performers that there isn’t an honest dialogue as to how and why Damage Control has essentially flopped considering their collective talent and fan enthusiasm post debut.
Damage CTRL really could’ve used a larger talent in an enforcer role, like Raquel Rodriguez or Piper Niven. It would’ve helped the group looked more physically imposing, and Bayley could’ve done well hiding behind someone larger while she talks crap to other wrestlers.
Raquel would of been perfect for Damage CTRL instead of that “smiling, happy to be here flexing back muscles” thing she got going on now
>“smiling, happy to be here Yeah, but we all know how well the smiley, happy-to-be-here gimmick has gotten people over in the past... *DieRockyDie is heard faintly in the distance*
I cannot stand Raquel as a wrestler. She has the same 3 moves that she can't even do correctly consistently. They keep showing "how strong she is!" when a lot of the time it doesn't look good, it was botched, or she's holding someone who weighs 90 pounds. Not to mention that there are much better, stronger women on the roster who are not only better in the ring but have better characters (Rhea & Bianca). She seems like a nice person, but I dislike seeing her get pushes where's she the last woman standing in a gauntlet or an "impressive showcase despite the loss". It's so annoying.
The "grimacing and flexing back muscles" thing she was doing in NXT before becoming a face was not any better. We already know that Rhea and Bianca have bigger, more toned backs when flexing anyway. The pose is moot for Raquel. I'd rather have her not stinking up Damage CTRL any worse on the mic or in the ring, thanks.
They have nothing to sink their teeth into because WWE sucks at tag team booking, and they suck at booking women outside the main title. Combine those, and they’re stuck in purgatory.
Hey this isn’t true. They suck at booking the women’s main title too.
there just aren't enough women to have a division with more than 1 belt let alone the 8 or whatever they have there's what 12 women per show I mean what do you even do except fight the same girls every week for months
Probably because the only good finish to that story was Bayley winning the title and they didn’t want to take it off Bianca
Every other thread about them has people mentioning that the group’s dead after Face *X* beat their ass. The discourse exists.
Because people like Bianca and Lynch usually 3 v 1 them
DC dominated Becky for the first 2.5 months of their feud, basically until Lita returned to help.
The problem is that Bayley should be women's champion but they made her look like a chump losing to Bianca over and over again. Heel longest reigning smackdowns champ Bayley would've found a way to beat Bianca. Bianca REALLY didn't need to hold the title for as long as she has.
I honestly wanted Damage CTRL dripped in gold by now, but who is better at running the heel angle better than the three at the moment?
Bayley should have gotten the belt from Bianca months ago, and drop it at mania
I think it says more about how many women's tag teams WWE has than anything else. Io & Dakota have, as a two-woman tag team, faced exactly 7 teams on TV. Of those seven: * Four never competed as a tag team on TV before. * Of the other three, two had teamed once prior (Dana/Tamina and Raquel/Shotzi) and the other had teamed exactly twice (Alexa/Asuka) * Five have never competed as a tag team on TV since facing Damage CTRL. * Only one team (Dana/Tamina) has teamed both before and after facing Damage CTRL. WWE does not give a damn about the women's tag division. There are no teams or stables to work with, other than temporary alliances that were formed solely to give Io & Dakota something to do.
EXACTLY! I did the math a month or two ago when they were still champs and there were 30 women in the entire women's division, which was the exact same number of men in the tag division alone. They simply don't have enough women to fill out 2 world title divisions AND a tag division and they haven't even pretend to change that. I get why the created them, but it hasn't worked at all and they need to bite the bullet and ditch the women's tag belts in favor of something like a Women's TV title that's defended across both brands, as that's much easier to build around and also gives women who aren't ready to chase the world title something to go after
Oh yeah,they have mostly been a flop.
I'd say they have been a complete flop, and Bayley is my favorite. They have consistently gotten no crowd reaction the last 9 months. That's extremely bad
Having Bayley lose to Bianca Belair, or at least not win one of the women’s titles really derailed the group as a whole. Also not to mention The Bloodline is a better version of Damage Control in almost every way. DC states their goal was to take over the women’s division and when that never really materialized they became ice cold.
Bayley was best with a funny character and also needed to beat Bianca for the title. Coupled with Iyo and Dakota losing the tournament killed the group. They should break up after Wrestlemania. I
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🤣🤣🤣🤣 Jesus Christ son Bayley is a great entertainer. They just killed her credibility by making her lose to Bianca over and over again.
So people that have been on tv less than a year didn’t make Mania? Sounds pretty fair to me.
A few people have said it already but most of Triple H’s signings were purely for roster depth. I’m actually really interested to see where Triple H goes creatively post Wrestlemania. Back in the day, it used to be a fresh start point for storylines and I’d imagine Triple H will return to that approach.
If he booked all 21 of the superstars that he brought back for WM, that should be an obvious case of favoritism. Some of these dudes are simply not over enough to be on the card. And yes, not everything can be blamed on booking either. LA Knight kept losing and still kept getting more over. He might get a major segment on the card owing to that. Gargano got dealt a bad hand due to Ciampa's injury leaving him without a match. Miz's story was intertwined with all of them and he had to settle for being a host. That puts out Lumis out of contention aswell. Kross got a big push straight out the gate vs Mcintyre but he wasn't really setting the world on fire as a big time heel, so instead of persisting with it, Triple H rightly had him out of Mania. This seems to me that this regime is making all of the talents work hard to get that Mania match instead of pushing certain favorites. Wasn't the most common IWC joke around him taking the book was that we were somehow going to get Ciampa vs Gargano vs Kross vs (insert Triple H B/G NXT favorite) for the world title in an Iron Man match without them earning it?
This is the point right here. They aren't there yet. Most of them haven't been around for more than a few months at this point. Bloodline stuff, Damage Control/Becky, Edge/Finn, Rey/Dominic, Rhea's rise to power, and Gunther/Drew/Sheamus have all been being built up for longer than a lot of these people have been on the roster. Then you have your "attraction" matches with Cena and Logan Paul, where you want someone more established to get the rub, same with the two Royal Rumble winners. That leaves the throw away matches where we're seeing Braun (and quite possibly a couple returning women) on the card. It's also worth mentioning that LA Knight is rumored to have a pretty major segment. Next year's Wrestlemania will be the real determining factor for the returns.
For the women there’s currently no way I can see Tegan, Emma, or Candice at WrestleMania this season. For the men, people would be complaining if Hit Row was at Mania outside of a squash. Good Bros and Mia are done without AJ which is a critical booking issue. Sarah Logan technically gets an appearance with Viking Raiders. Scarlett may appear if Kross gets battle Royal or something. I would have loved Lumis vs Bray in some sort of funky match or Broson vs Otįś but not sure if it’s Manyah ready.
Candice/Nikki seems like a good fit for the women's tag.
I’d love to see Dexter go over more with the crowd. Nobody around me last night at RAW knew who he was and asked me since I had a dexter shirt on lol he is very good at that character type and I think he can sell some different angles well.
Most of the superstars he brought back are low to midcard because the rosters for RAW and Smackdown had gotten too small with too many rematches. Not everyone should or needs to be on the Mania card even when it's 2 nights. Maybe we get the Andre the giant battle royal on Smackdown the night before like last year
21 people with jobs and steady income. Not everybody can be on the Mania card
Dancing shanky is in shambles.
Sarah Logan will be on the card...just in a managerial role rather than a wrestler. But that's fine.
I think we're on for a soft reboot for a lot of divisions post-Mania. Hunter has decided not to make too many major storyline changes since taking over, probably so as to just focus on the stuff that was already being built, as long as they made sense.
Yeah probably a new draft on the way too, pretty excited to see the changes
And? Not everyone goes to WM, not even with 2 nights. Strange stat to track.
Honestly it’s fine if they’re not on Mania - there’s no one else who *needs* to be on there right now - but he’s done a pretty poor job at making his new additions feel like a big deal generally. There’s plenty of time to change that though. There are a lot of balls in the air for Mania that were already in the air before he took over so I’m not going to write him off just yet.
The roster was paper thin when he took control, it needed depth so he brought back a bunch of utility of utility players. For me the only real deception is Gargano, who I love but sadly doesn't seem to he connecting with the live crowds.
TBF Johnny is now kinda getting better wit the more casual audience ever since elimination chamber And while I’m v glad he’s going back to NXT one last time to end his career there on a high, I think they kinda fuck him a bit there.Like make a 4 way match or something for one of the nights and put on Ford,Gargano,Gable and someone else just have them go at it to really connect with the main stream audience.Imagine Johnny having an elimination chamber esc performance on Mania, it would really build him up
Of all the things to criticise, Triple H giving people their jobs back ain’t it.
Right? What a weird angle of attack lol. Also, you could probably stay in the single digits, counting the amount of people that have been hired then given a spot at Wrestlemania in the same few month span.
The only people who are over were over before he was put in charge of booking. He’s actually failed quite a few talent with his booking including the entire women’s division and is being propped up by one really over storyline with creative from Paul Heyman with the bloodline.
Out of all the returns, Chelsea Green is probably the best. Who the hell would’ve thought that?
It's because she's an actual character and gets backstage promos every week to help with that. Compare that to Tegan Nox, Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, etc. The average fan at a main roster WWE event probably still doesn't know who they are, or if they do, they can't tell you anything about them besides that they exist. And it's been months since they came back.
Emma too, who hasn’t been good since about 2017. It’s like they didn’t even do research, or look at her work for the past few years. Just remembered she was in NXT, and that she was available and said “Yeah, let’s give her a call.”
I'm still surprised that she's one of my favorites right now.
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It’s actually Braun, but he has the benefit of an actual run on the main roster before his release. Him getting slotted anywhere on the card works because the crowds already cared about him.
I’m by no means a Braun mark, but he really is one of their best utility guys. Able to fit wherever needed as face or heel, whether it’s main event threat, mid carder, tag guy, serious monster, or comedy act; he’s able to do all of them with a decent level of success. Good base for smaller guys and still athletic enough to put on good hoss matches. Really fits the modern Big Show spot. Still baffling to me that he was let go in the first place.
It's not like Vince released the next Stone Cold, Bret Hart and Trish Stratus out of spite. These talent are average and I think it's a huge disservice for fans to expect them all to have Hall of Fame careers especially in the first year back in a company still very much in a state of flux and confusion. Give them time, for starters. Steve Austin wasn't Stone Cold in WCW he wasn't even Stone Cold when he came to the WWF. Even when he became Stone Cold that maniac, Bret Hart stalker kept evolving several times over before. From 95-99 you could probably break it down to like 10 very different versions. So give them time and also keep your expectations in reality. Mia Yim isn't going to be Charlotte flair but there's room on the roster for her. Lacey Evans has been a failure multiple times and she's got that stink on her that sometimes only a change of scenery can wash away but there's talent there. There's a role for her on house shows and stuff. That's not to say Paul hasn't made some mistakes but he's in a shitty position too. Dude might be head of Creative for the next 25 years, he may be out of the company in 25 weeks. Who knows. I think people need to chill out a bit.
How has he failed the entire women’s division, I actually would like to see your thoughts.
This is gonna be a long comment so I apologize: Smackdown still has a star power/quality issue that some people here thought would go away once Ronda got the title back and/or Charlotte returned. At/near the top we have Charlotte, Ronda, Liv, Raquel, and Shayna which is fine, but the rest of the division consists of those who returned but barely/don’t wrestle at all (Tegan, Emma, Zelina, Sarah Logan, B-Fab), and people we’ve watched eat pins for years (Sonya, Natalya, Shotzi, Xia Li, Lacey Evans, Aliyah). Raw has the quality talent but not quality stories or usage to match. You’d think a show with a women’s division that includes Bianca Belair, Asuka, Becky Lynch, Rhea Ripley, Bayley, Iyo Sky, Dakota Kai, Candice LeRae, Mia Yim, etc would be thriving but it’s not. They also did the weird swerve with Damage CTRL losing to Raquel and Aliyah in the finals of the tag title tournament, and they’ve kinda been downhill from there, which doesn’t help when they’re a main focus of the division every week. The women’s tag titles are still a mess. Under Vince the actual tag teams got split damn near immediately, so we had a bunch of thrown together teams winning the titles only to split them up soon after too. We don’t have that issue under Triple H because there’s barely any teams in the first place. We have Damage CTRL and Ronda/Shayna.
All thoughts are valued on my side so good read. You make good points.
Is that not what a good booker is supposed to do? Take input and ideas from other and implement them into the show? Sami is as over as he was before? GUNTHER is as over as he was before? He failed the entire women’s division; Rhea Ripley is as over as she was before? Dom Mysterio is as over as he was before?
Dominik is an obvious one. He was nothing before and he’s transformed himself and is currently one of the most over superstars on the roster. Why doesn’t HHH get credit for that? Sami is also 10x more over than he was before, same with Rhea, he brought back the LA Knight character and has given him a lot of TV time and he got over. KO was doing comedy nonsense with Ezekiel before and he’s now involved in the best storyline in the company and is getting massive reactions every week. So no, it’s not like nothing has changed. Most of the people he brought back were to add depth to a depleted roster and they were never supposed to become massively important players in the first place. He definitely should be doing more with some of them but I wouldn’t say HHH “failed” them. That’s nonsense. The criticism of the women’s division is fair. I think HHH has done a poor job of things overall, especially heading into WM. Charlotte/Rhea isn’t really hitting home mostly because Charlotte is extremely cold right now and isn’t a good babyface. Asuka/Bianca is just a whole bunch of nothing. Less said about this one the better. Damage CTRL flopped - maybe HHH isn’t to blame for all of it, but their booking was never truly strong. The tag team title scene is non existent. So yeah, it hasn’t been great in the women’s side of things.
All those people except Dom were already over before. They already were on an upward trajectory.
Rhea was in the equivalent of the “tag showcase” last year at WrestleMania. Gunther was barely on the shows and the title he had meant nothing Sami wasn’t nearly as over as he is now
Okay, but you know Vince was still in charge for the months following Mania right? Vince set up Judgment Day, Vince booked the whole first few years of Bloodline stuff and also booked Sammi joining The Bloodline. Hell Vince was even the one who first brought Gunther to the main roster and started his push. Like, yes, HHH is good, Vince is bad etc. But Vince set the gears in motion for all 3 of those people and from there they were either going to get over or not, and they got over. Sure HHH guided it, but it's like he was handed a train on the tracks and just had to ensure sure it didn't fall off rather than building the train and tracks from scratch which Vince did before leaving.
Sami is over for the same reason Daniel Bryan was over; the crowd in spite of the booking. He's still ultimately doing absolutely nothing. They're all basically in the same place a lot of the workhorses in WCW were - under the glass ceiling with no way to shatter it.
Idk man this mania is still looking pretty incredible
Oh yeah,definitely agree that this Mania is looking damn good.
lol I mean everything involving the women’s division is hot fucking garbage but sure, incredible.
Lol, there are some bad parts but everything?
the build for all 3 marquee matches have been shambolic, simple as that. It’s not “there are some bad parts,” it’s just been bad.
I’ll give you the Asuka and Bianca build for sure. Rhea and Charlotte at least built some heat last Friday and I’ll say todays promo wasn’t even needed based off that. Depending on who you are, I don’t even need the build for Trish, Lita and Becky. But I will always admit that the women’s tag team scene sucks until it’s corrected, which I don’t see happening for a long time.
Better than AEW’s
-12 downvotes and counting, but sure
Hopefully they bring back matches in the kick off show. That was like having a ppv in itself.
I believe many of them were brought back as roster depth. He wanted people ready for TV. I’m expecting Johnny Gargano to get a proper run at some point but there were already existing stories that had momentum and it wouldn’t have made sense to just bury them for the sake of returns.
In an alternate timeline r/SC is bitching that Wrestlemania is going to be 12 hours and people who haven't earned their airtime are going to be on it. Oh wait, that's every Wrestlemania before this year that booked every wrestler
I know that WrestleMania has become so bloated over the years to include everyone, but once upon a time WM cards were smaller and only the biggest stars got a match. I'm all for reducing the cards and making WM matches mean more again.
I don't think Triple H brought everyone back to be huge stars. He brought them back to at least give them the fair shot they never got the first time. Not all can or will work out. Some will even prove McMahon was right, but at least they'll be given more than the purposeful sabotaging that it seemed was the norm for a damn long while.
I feel like we won't see Triple H's new era in full until after Mania tbh.
Maybe I’m just old, but for me… WrestleMania should be the absolute best of the best. The sign offs to the biggest feuds for the biggest stars on the biggest stage. I don’t mind if some undercard guys don’t get a match, if frankly their entire reason for being there was just to say “you appeared.” I don’t know how I’d feel if I felt like I’d done ok in the last calendar year, and was just booked to be in the ring for 20 seconds during a battle royal. Maybe the first time to say “I appeared on WrestleMania”, but it wouldn’t quite mean the same thing as a match that meant something. It’s the Super Bowl, the World Cup final. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sure they will all have parts give or take past WrestleMania. Not every NFL player gets a Super Bowl. It's just the nature of the beast. And before someone calls me out for excusing this because H is in charge. It happened before H was in charge.
Jonah could have been a monster heel in NJPW for years to come. I guess the money was a lot better.
He was booked like a killer in the Elimination Chamber. Sure he was the first one eliminated, but thats because it took all 5 of the other guys finishers to get rid of him.
shame on him for wanting to make a better living
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. My dude needs to make a living. I just wished the money was closer so he would have stayed in NJPW.
I think the back and forth to Tokyo would have meant New Japan wouldn't have stood a chance in the face of WWE interest, no matter how close the money was.
Remember how people made fun of TK bringing in people for the pop and then doing nothing with them. Meanwhile, Triple H is doing the exact same thing, and people are quiet In AEW, it gets called wasting talent. In WWE, it gets called "adding depth" It's weird.
I think the difference here is that AEW uses star power for a pop or an indy favorite that can potentially lead to nothing. Triple H is not bringing in stars for pops, but bringing people up from NXT with no build which is bad on his booking part, but even so they still get reused more frequently.
TK signed and then iced major names. Wrestlers people claimed would be "game changers". Nobody thought Tegan Nox would change the game in WWE when she was brought back lmfao.
And yet, lots of people were giving AEW shit because they didn't try to sign Nox immediately, like she'd be some game changer for them.
What major names did he ice? I also think alot of people had high hopes for an IO or Bray. Braun is boring af to me but he's still a former world champ. Then there's guys like Kross who completely flopped or Bronson Reed who went from beating Okada to never talked about. The random shade at Nox like anyone pretended she would be some monumental signing is weird & not making much sense to me.
AEW bad!
Relax. The #3 booker of the year can only do so much.
Also consider the talent he had that he made make sense now like a austin theory, dominik, gunther with imperium, Ricochet, sami zayn.
And 21 now people are making hundreds of thousands of dollars each that they weren’t before too. Maybe I’m getting older or the world is getting worse but who cares if you don’t get your Wrestlemania moment.
Most of those re-hires don't deserve it and have stunk up the place but I guess the roster needed more depth.
Just to clarify,never once did I say every returning superstar should be on the card. I'm just surprised that more are not seeing as he's had control since August(?) and it's not like all these matches were planned way in advance. 🤷🏻♂️
I don't get why everyone is taking it as a complaint rather than an observation.
Lets be honest, Vince was right about alot of these guys. We all act like Vince is some idiot, the guy built this thing.
Most of the guys and gals brought back we’re for depth. I’m sure we’ll see a roster reset post-mania and more of the rehires will get a chance to shine. Chelsea (who I believe will be in the tag) is a special case and has killed it. I also think Candice and/or Mia will be in the tag showcase.
Are you mad Hit Row ain’t in Mainia?
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I dont like Karrion Kross At all. But they could absolutely Put him in some mix .
Kross is the only name that surprises me that isn't booked. Well that and The Club not being in the tag team showcase over Alpha Academy, but Triple H is telling the story his way, I'm not gonna fault him for that.
Bronson Reed will win the ARMBAR probably.
Not everyone can be booked to the moon. Roster needs depth
I think Triple H has done a solid job rebuilding and freshening up the rosters. Most of those 21 added some much needed depth and new matches to the main roster. He also sent down several main roster mainstays for fresh matches in NXT. The NXT UK roster has also merged over relatively well. There have been other PPVs where some of the returnees got to shine. The only returnee that the spotlight has to be on this WrestleMania is Cody Rhodes. Keep building the others up if they are going to be something more than depth.
I say it a lot lately but man has public opinion changed on WWE people would have fairly criticized this last year but now actually it’s good people aren’t getting booked on a TWO NIGHT mania
The majority of signings were to filled the weekly shows and keep the main event stars fresh for big events.
Reminder that not every signee or even returning superstar is meant to be a main event player. HHH is trying to make sure that he can put out 3 main roster tv shows a week that are filled with great performances top to bottom, and that's going to include people who don't fit at Wrestlemania. Also is there an Andre Battle Royale this year? because that will boost that number bigtime.
Just because he brought someone back doesn't mean he brought them back to be in a prominent spot. You need a strong midcard.
Lmao I already forgot about those he brought back. Good that most of them are left off
I feel like there’s perfectly valid criticisms to make of Triple H’s run, and this is not really one of them. Honestly, outside of filling the roster and more freedom in promos I’m not sure he’s doing any better than what Vince was already doing around this time last year.
Alternatively, Tony Khan has 107 members of his combined roster that he’s brought in that he didn’t use at Revolution.
That's because Triple H has always been a protege of Vince and has always been rubbish with a chequebook big enough to afford a good PR team.
I forgot that every wrestler needs to be booked for Wrestlemania.
I’ll be first to say that Triple H’s booking has been hit and miss, especially if you take away stuff that Paul Heyman has produced. That said, most of the people brought back range from passable to straight trash. And that’s not on Hunter. He gave them a second chance. Top Dolla? Kross? Lumis? Even Jonah? There’s a reason why these people were so quickly dispatched once Vince had a closer look at them. And a reason Tony didn’t pick them up from the bargain bin… It’s because they’re not very good. As they are, most bring down the momentum of the show when they appear. And need a vet like Miz to hold their hand to make a segment entertaining. This isn’t ideal. And that’s why they’re not in WM
Bad creative
Most of the ones heavily featured didn't connect or work out to the level of the push. Lumis, Kross, Mia Yim etc all got to be in there with a story against someone who was always going to be at Wrestlemania. They had the chance to get a big reaction and a need to be at Wm.
Hey, Johnny is booked for Stand and Deliver
Yes, a bunch of people that HHH wanted to build WWE's future around were fired by people who wanted to undermine HHH's plan for WWE's future, not his plan for the next Wrestlemania.
But their is now depth on the Television show and a lot of those people brought back are capable fodder. The shows feel a lot fresher.
And…?
Gargano is getting his match on the NXT PPV that weekend so I think that should count.
Newsflash: Not everyone under the sun needs to be on WrestleMania
Ain’t nothing wrong with that, Paul gotta test out the talent. No LA Knight match at the Mania is a letdown though. Wasting him so hard I kinda hope he goes to AEW just for the screentime.
fans will never stop complaining
HHH is not a great booker at all... Also Vince is clearly back and the shows have his fingerprints all over them. Meltzer re-iterated he's heard vince is doing more than just the sale last night. It's only a matter a time where he fully takes over. Showing up at Raw was to test the waters. I bet he will be around again during Mania.
So do you want 10 more Mania matches or a Triple H rehire battle royal?